You Winning LifeEp. 92-Patrick Fitzgibbons: Evolve Into Your Best You

Hey everybody, welcome back to the You Winning Life podcast. Today I have a really, really special guest, and it's an incredible and important topic and theme for us to be talking about especially in the culture of what's going on in politics and in the world. Today's guest is Patrick Fitzgibbons. He is a retired law enforcement officer. He also served in the 82nd Airborne Division of the, of the Army and most recently retired in 2019. He holds an MBA in business, an MA in organizational leadership. Like me and probably everybody else listening to this podcast, he's a lifelong learner, and he has an awesome coaching program and a podcast. It's called CJ Evolution Podcast, where he's focusing on making people better, especially in the law enforcement and military world, and helping them reach their potential and their purpose. So Patrick, thanks so much for hanging out.

Hey buddy, thank you for inviting me on your great show. Honored to be here.

I'm honored to have you. So number one, I want to give a thanks to, to, uh, Podbooker. So that, you know, it's, it's— I actually had Daniel the other day, uh, on my podcast, the, the guy who created it. So, um, really, really wonderful, spectacular person. So I want to give a shout out and a thanks to him for creating something where we're able to connect in this way so quickly and so efficiently.

So it's amazing with technology, isn't it, Jason? Amazing. Yeah, we just live in a great time when it comes to technology.

Yeah. And we were talking about like the power of, of podcasts, so let's start there because we're going to jump around a little bit. I don't, I don't necessarily want to go— no, go ahead. Sequential order. Um, usually it's like, tell me your backstory, whatever. But, but I write, write podcasts right now, right? It's 20— at the end of 2020, we're beginning of 2021. And, um, I was joking with a potential client the other day. They're like, well, I'm not sure if I'm ready for therapy. I can't believe I have to go to therapy. And I said to them, you know, it's not like the '80s and '90s. It's like, if you have a therapist, there's something wrong with you. It's 2020. If you don't have a therapist, there's something wrong with you. So I want to take that and apply that to the podcast world. If you don't have a podcast at this point, there might be something wrong with you, but you're serving such a powerful, powerful niche. So let's, let's jump into that. Like, how did it, you know, what's the focus? How did it get created? What have been some of the most impactful experiences you've had as a podcaster? And then let's tie that into the big macro story.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I've been doing my show, Criminal Justice Evolution Podcast for— thanks for the plug, Jason. Appreciate it.

Yeah.

I've been doing it for a little over 4 years now. And, um, You know, I remember when I was still in law enforcement, I remember, you know, driving around one day. I'm a huge, you know, I love podcasts, you know, Joe Rogan and all the big ones, Lewis Howes and James Altucher and all these great podcasts out there. So I remember one day I was driving around, I was like, you know, I wonder if I could do that. You know, I wonder if I could, you know, do something, you know, love law enforcement. And I said, you know, I want to maybe kick around the idea. Of starting a criminal justice podcast. And to your point, Jason, I just did it and kind of built it on the water, built the boat on the water. We were like, we were talking about, and I'm still learning and just having a great time. And like you said, I mean, I serve the criminal justice community. That's my niche. And my whole purpose is to have content and guests on the show that make first responders and military personnel better personally and professionally. I talk a lot about mindset. I talk a lot resiliency. You know, having gratitude every day. I mean, those are just a couple things I talk about, but I'm just really blessed to have just such an amazing, you know, slew of guests that have come on the show. I have military, I have financial people that come on, I have mindset experts, and then we could tie it back into the criminal justice field. And the show has really taken off, almost up to 400 episodes and just growing it. And I love to come on shows like yours. Great show you have, Jason. And yeah, I just, I love what I'm doing and I want to continue to give back to a profession that was so good to me, uh, over the years.

Yeah, so it's so interesting because right now there's such a fascination with individuals like you who have come out of that world who are now sharing their wisdom, sharing their experiences, and using that to not just help but to motivate others, right? David Goggins is a, is a very interesting experience, uh, that, that, right, his whole story is just a really profound one. Um, I had Tom Shea, who was a former Navy SEAL, right? There's all these as a guest of mine there. So this is like, there seems to be a new fascination with taking everything that those, uh, in your community have learned and bring it out to, uh, the lay people, you know, us that have not been in the military or first responder experiences, and benefiting from it without having to go through the, the, you know, that first line hardships that you guys have sacrificed for, for, for our country, for our nation, for us.

Well, it's like you said, I mean, there's, there's so much information out there. We truly— I tell people this all the time, Jason— we truly live in some amazing times. Yes, we're going through a difficult time right now. But as far as we just have information that, I mean, I never thought, I mean, I'm 51. I never thought when I was in high school, we would be able to, you and I'd be able to talk face to face right now. And I just, it's just amazing the technology we have and the information at our fingertips. So now you got to vet the information, make sure you're consuming good information, but you know, it just really is an amazing time. And to your point, you know, if you want to start a show, start a show, you know, go for it. I mean, the traffic lights of light are never going to be green at the same time. So if you're waiting for the right period of time, it's never going to happen. Do it now, right? Right.

The best time was yesterday. Yeah, exactly.

Right, right.

It's so funny. It's like a great podcast hit— I mean, podcast— Bitcoin, sorry, was up today to $24,000, and everybody's like, oh, I should have gotten in, I should have got it, I should have got it right. But it was $200 a Bitcoin, you know, whatever, 2012, it was $200 a Bitcoin, and people are like, you know, so it's right now it's $24,000. So it's, it's, it's so funny, like, I should have, I should have, right?

But that's the, you know, I think this mindset of, you know, civilian mindset.

And I don't want to break up the world into two worlds, but it's, you know, having been a therapist working with military and first responders actually as like some of my primary, uh, clients as I first started as a therapist has really been a unique experience. Um, on, on one side, I've met some of the most incredible loving individuals that I've ever met. On the other side, there's people who are just tormented and going through stuff, right? I've had clients who, right, obviously there's been everybody— people who, whether they're serving or have not served, have gone through abuse as a child. Um, but I've seen stuff where it has been affecting their relationships, right? There's PTSD, there is personality disorders, right? There's narcissistic and, and, um, and, and other, you know, borderline personality disorders that unfortunately might mesh into that community. Um, you know, I've seen a of domestic violence and infidelity. But again, on the other side, I said I've also seen the most loving, confident, healthy who have seen and went through hell and have still come out. So I'm curious, from your vantage point, from your experience, and even in your own life, how does one leverage what they went through, what you were trained in, to not only— and I know this is part of your theme and your, your mission in your podcast, to take these experiences, to learn from these experiences, to be open like you have as a lifelong learner, which maybe is the key.

Yeah, I was gonna say, right?

So maybe that's it. But, but to not get stuck, to not make it worse, to not make going and serving, uh, a punishment. Yeah, that affects you versus it becoming a tool of, of authenticity and, and growth.

I think that's a great question, Jason Wasser. And I think it comes down to, for me, and I'll speak from my experience, you know, I suffered through, you know, PTSD and depression a lot throughout my career. I was able to put a great mask on, and very few people knew about it, except people who were close to me. But it really— part of my healing and part of my development forward was to have an honest discussion with myself and really be honest with myself and say, look, I'm in a bad place. I, you know, I need, I need to be honest with myself. I need to reach out and ask for help because I knew I couldn't do it alone. But so many first responders, so many military think that they can do it by themselves. And I'm going to tell you right now, and you know, Jason, you're not an island, you can't do it by yourself.

Right.

And there is, you know, it really is amazing. You talked about having a therapist. You know, I think, you know, especially in the military and law enforcement, I still think there's that culture of a sign of weakness if you reach out, like if you're having help or if you need help. I know I struggled with that for many years in law enforcement. When I retired, I was a commander. I was one of the main guys, but I, you know, had got over my depression. I mean, I, you know, I dealt with a lot of my demons, but it took me a long time to get there. My point is, is that I think that's the biggest problem with, or one of the issues that a lot of first responders and military personnel deal with is just the stigma behind asking for help. And I'm here to tell you that while law enforcement— I've been out of the military for a while, but law enforcement has come a long way. And, you know, we still have a way to go, but it's not a sign of weakness to come forward and say, look, I need help. It's a sign of strength. Because, you know, it's like a cup, you can only fill so much in that cup, and then it's going to start overflowing. So again, for all the people out there, and Jason, you know, being a therapist, I mean, you need to have an honest discussion with yourself first, which I did. You need to be, you know, I think the people you surround yourself with are key to your success. I tell people all the time, look, you got to weed your garden every once in a while. And if people are negative and toxic in your life, you really need to think about having new people in your life. I know that's— people are thinking, well, it's, you know, it's my family. Okay, but doesn't mean you have to spend all the time with them, right? And you can kind of love them from afar. I have relatives that I love to death, but I don't want to spend a lot of time with them. So I think you got to have these discussions with yourself. Because I really do believe that, you know, the Creator, whoever you believe in, gave us all the tools that we need to make our lives better. It starts with you. You know, it starts with you. So I know that's hard for some people to hear right now. But you can do it. You have all the tools and everything within you to make your life better and get where you want to go.

Yeah. And I think one of the stigma challenges, especially when it comes to the therapy side, So we were talking before about, you know, the two main insurance panels that most, right, uh, respond— first responders or servicemen or service people are, are taken care of. One is, is Humana TRICARE military, um, right, the Prime and Standard models. And then the other one, at least in Florida, that takes care of federal employees, uh, is Florida— is Blue Cross Blue Shield. And the challenges is when they're coming in to use their insurance the insurance doesn't get processed unless you put a clinical psychological/psychiatric diagnosis on the, right, on the, on the billing form that goes back to the insurance. And the question is, is what happens if they get diagnosed with anxiety disorder or post-traumatic stress disorder and they're holding in a certain position that that might have a detrimental effect to future or present job performance? And there's no— I've never once heard, because no one's ever trained us in this, How do you navigate that to give them the best services? But at the same time, how can that affect them down the road if those records get requested?

Mm-hmm.

And there's a duality to that because at one side we say we want you to get the help. At the other side, it, it's mandated, right? As far as the insurance side that you have to get a client a diagn— and they only cover certain diagnoses. They won't reimburse couples counseling. It has to be a person has to get a diag— one person has to get a diagnosis. So there's a, you know, my guess is that there's a worry that, like, especially a Secret Service agent that I had, right? They came in, there was a domestic dispute that they had with a partner. And how do you, how do you do that if they're doing security clearance at the highest level? They might eventually put on detail, right? Presidential detail or any type of, you know, political detail. You know, how do we navigate protecting our colleagues from any negative detriment when it comes to their self-care, when it comes to mental health and navigating the system?

Yeah, I mean, it's a difficult question, Jason, but I would go back to, as simplistic as it sounds, you know, that's going to manifest itself if you don't, if you're so worried about not going and, and seeking out help because you're worried about a career. Look, I get it. I totally get it. I mean, you know, your career is your career and your livelihood is your livelihood. But if people are not willing to go and— when I dealt with that in law enforcement, I was so worried that I was going to be stigmatized as having depression and having suffered from PTSD. But, and again, this is just my experience, the exact opposite happened. Because I knew I couldn't go down the path, I couldn't keep going down the path. I knew that if I didn't reach out and get help, that it was going to manifest somewhere down the road, and it was going to come out. And then God knows what would happen, you know, I mean, so I guess I would tell people who are struggling with that, you know, and I get it, you know, the professional sphere of it. I mean, it's, It's important. But look, if you're not taking care of yourself first, you know, it's— I know, you know, you've heard this before, the old, you know, example, I'll use it again. It's been beaten to death a million times. But you know, you go on a plane, the oxygen mask falls, who do you put it on first? You put it on you, right? So especially the first responders and, you know, federal employees that are working in law enforcement, you got to take care of yourself first. And that means that if you need help, to reach out for help, and then just put it in— I know it sounds corny— put it in God's hands or whoever. I mean, whatever's going to happen, it's going to happen. But you got to take care of yourself first. Yeah. Yeah.

And the one way that I've come up with an answer, so for anybody who's listening to this, and obviously you can share this to your community, is that you have the option to go out of pocket, pay cash.

True. Yeah.

And when you pay cash, there's no requirement for a clinical diagnosis on record. That's only an insurance mandate.

But what would you do if the people who can't pay cash, you know, that's the thing.

We would find them the right appropriate community, you know, agency. And thank— right, thank goodness there's all over the country there is community mental health agencies And as long as— and you can discuss that with the provider, that you would say like, what part of this has to be diagnosed? Because some agencies, because they get funding based on meeting certain criteria for— but if you're going to a, a private practice clinician such as me, the thing would be, well, I'm afraid I would lose my security clearance or whatever it may be. Okay, well, let's talk about, you know, a negotiated cash rate. And, you know, those of us out there who would, you know, we would probably— I know for myself, like, I know if TRICARE pays me this and my cash rate is this, right, much higher, I would probably see them equivalent to what the insurance would reimburse me, which is a much lower rate.

And I love what you said. I mean, there's options out there. The whole point is, is that I love what you said, Jason Wasser. I mean, there's other options out there. Just, you know, just go and contact you or somebody else's. And there's always a resolution. I think there's always a solution to every problem. So just don't hold it in. Don't try to deal with it yourself because you just can't.

Yeah. So let's get into the culture of choosing this world, choosing this life, choosing this identity, because it seems that for me, right, I was born in 1978, so I'm about 10 years younger than you, that even though my mom's father, my grandfather, served in the American Army, he was in the band, so it was really cool. So he was a performer. But I know going to the grave sites in Pennsylvania where my family, both sides of my family are, I saw so many flags. Are of those who served. And it was like, it seemed like everybody 50 years ago served, and it was like this patriotic duty. And it didn't matter which way you voted, and it didn't matter where you lived. This was just for men specifically, maybe more so than women at that time, right? This is just something you do to have this. And, and so, and the culture obviously has shifted, politics and, and all these other things. How does a teenager, middle school teenager, how does— what are some of the questions, some of the processes? Or even if you're in your early 20s and you're still nagging questions like, do I do this? How does one sort through and figure out if this is the appropriate direction for them to go, whether it's military, law enforcement, first responder? How does— like, what's in that process? What does that involve for them to help make a really powerful decision?

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I mean, I'll give you You know, the example of my son I mentioned before we started, my son, you know, is going to be 20, you know, in a couple of days. And I remember a year and a half ago, he— or yeah, about a year ago, he was struggling with what he wanted to do. He didn't want to go to college right away. And I admire him for that. I think too many people just go to college for the sake of going to college and waste a lot of money. But that's a different discussion. But anyway, he— we went on a hike one day in Boulder and he told me, he said, Dad, you know, I don't know what I want to do with my life. I said, that's okay. That's fine.

You don't have to have it all mapped out right now.

And, you know, he wanted to know about my military experience. And I said, because I've never— I mean, I grew up in a military family, like I told you, Jason Wasser, I served in the military. But I never pushed my son to go in the military. I always said, you know, it's an option. So long story short, I mean, he did a lot of soul searching. He did, you know, spent a lot of time, you know, meditating and things like that, which he does. And he really, you know, really, you know, like I said, it came down to a discussion with himself and what he wanted in his life. And ultimately, he chose the military and went into the Air Force. And of course, I'm proud of him. But for those people out there that are kind of wondering their path, I mean, there's a lot of noise out there. I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of society telling you what you should do. And, you know, parents and relatives, ah, you know, Jason, you shouldn't do that. You got to go to medical school and do this. And you got to do what you want to do. I know that sounds simplistic, but what does your heart tell you to do? You know, and I know sometimes it's daunting, you know, being a young person, and I know that there's a lot of noise out there, but it really comes down to what do you really want to do with your life? What path do you want to take? And realize too, this goes back into what we were talking about, just an amazing time I believe we're at in human history. Just because you choose one path doesn't mean that you can't change direction down the road. I mean, I think the average person now changes paths or jobs 7, 8 times, or so, maybe it's more.

Yeah.

So, I think it again comes down to really putting down your goals on paper, writing down where you want to be and where you envision yourself being and what do you want out of life. And, you know, I mean, and I always tell people, look, you know, money is important, but money is just a tool. You know, it really starts, you know, with what's going to bring you some happiness. What are you passionate about? You know, what motivates you? And go that direction.. And again, I just, I hope I answered your question. But I think it just starts with yourself and have a, having a good, you know, deep discussion with yourself and not worrying about what other people, you know, you're trying to please other people. What do you want to do? You know, what do you want to do with your life?

Yeah. So, you know, you talked about these, these goals and these purpose. For me, I look at it from the perspective of what's your core values? Yeah, exactly. What syncs up with your core values? Yeah. So what, from your experience, and it doesn't have to be obviously the precise, you know, words, but off the top of your head, like, what would be like the core values that you think a person, uh, is trying to embody that would lead them going into this type of, you know, you know, a sense of fulfillment, you know, honesty, integrity, uh, you know, dedication.

I think fulfillment is a big thing, you know. You got to be fulfilled, you know. It's got to fill you up. You got to be passionate about what you're doing. Again, I think we just as a society, we fall in the trap of trying to please others. And I'm not saying that that's not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes you want to please your spouse or your family. But, you know, I think a lot of us, and I know I was there as a young person, I'm just, you know, I gotta, you know, my parents would freak out if I wanted to do this or that. And, you know, I remember, you know, my mom was scared to death when I became a police officer, got into law enforcement years ago. And she said, I don't want you to do that. And I'm like, well, Mom, I love you, but I'm going to do what I want to do. And I'm passionate about it. I want to serve. So I think a lot of people just get so wrapped up in what other people are thinking or, you know, what they're going to say about them. And it really comes down to what you want. So I would say, you know, fulfillment. Does this fulfill you? Or is it filling a need or a passion in your life? You know, is it going to bring you joy? And just go with that, man. I mean, I know it sounds simplistic again, but, you know, what do you— what gets you out of bed in the morning? You know, what excites you? You know, what motivates you? And, you know, I mean, You know, life is, life is amazing when the reality is we don't have that much time here when you look at it. And so you got to go for what you want to do and follow your dreams. And I think the rest will work itself out.

So as you were talking about this question that I wasn't planning on asking you, came to my mind. So I always, I always have a curveball that I can throw out there. What myths would you like to debunk? Or that you have been debunking as part of what you're doing from the vantage point you're at now, whether it's through your podcast, through your coaching, that the rest of the community needs to learn about that community?

I think that's a great question, Jason. And I would go back to, to law enforcement. Look, I think again, law enforcement's always been a, a tough environment, tough community. I think people who get in law enforcement realize that, or not naive. But I think just based on what I've seen, especially in the last year, I think, you know, I just want to debunk the myth out there. Let me premise, I should have stated, say this again. I still think the majority of people out there support and support our brave men and women who serve us in law enforcement. But I do believe that there's a lot of people out there that just based on what media is saying or what their friend says about law enforcement, they buy it hook, line, and sinker. And I'm going to tell you right now, most 99% of law enforcement, brave men and women, no matter what color or creed you come from, are just good people trying to do a very difficult job in a difficult environment. And I would say to your point, Jason, is don't believe the first thing you see on social media. Don't believe, you know, it's a very difficult environment. That vast majority of law enforcement officers are good people just doing a difficult job. So I want to debunk that because I've talked about this a lot where I teach on the college level too, Jason. So I teach, you know, I love teaching the next generation. But that's one of the myths I have to debunk because especially with the younger people, they're kind of, well, all cops are crooked. They're, you know, they're beating people up, you know, all the time. And that's really, that's not the— I don't know who you're hearing this from, but first of all, that's not true. Second of all, the numbers don't say that, right? So, I mean, but the purpose of law enforcement is we need the community just like they need us. So we need to come together. And if we want to make our community safer and better, everybody needs to be at the table, including community members and law enforcement. And we need to work together and collaborate to make our world a better place. But that's probably the biggest thing that I'm talking about a lot right now is kind of debunking the myth that among a lot of people, I don't think it's the majority, like I said, a lot of people think that law enforcement are just evil people and, you know, we need to go out there, get rid of them. And I always ask, okay, if you get rid of law enforcement, what are you going to replace them with? I don't know. So, so that's the myth I think that I try to work on.

So as you go back and, you know, like you said, you grew up in a, in a military family, your dad. Served. Is there, is there anything that throughout your life, that as you went through any challenges, trials, tribulations, or even some, you know, advantages, that you would say because of that background, because of Dad's influence, because of military and first responder and influence, gave you some type of insight or advantage or some keen awareness of something that really allowed you to work your way through something that maybe if you didn't have those experiences would have been more difficult for you?

I think it came down to my faith, you know, a lot of it. Uh, I grew up Roman Catholic, you know, very strict Catholic family, and that really helped me through my difficult times is going back to prayer and, you know, talking to God and just praying. And, um, you know, I mean, I grew up, like I said, I was I grew up in a very devoted, you know, Catholic family. So that, that helped me tremendously. That was the foundation, you know, that I grew up with in my life. That wasn't everything, but it was definitely the foundation that helped me get through some of my difficult times, as well as we talked about before we started, Jason, you know, I'm an avid, you know, I meditate all the time. In the morning, I journal, I, you know, exercise, take care of myself, you know, have a gratitude journal, all the things I talked about on my show are, you know, My faith was the foundation. Everything else was just building on that foundation. So that's what really helped me, you know, through the tough times in my life. It continues to, you know, I mean, I'm always praying and, you know, just— and I don't think you have to go to church to pray. But again, I'm always kind of meditating and saying some prayers that helps me through the tough times.

Yeah, I like helping my clients navigate between the difference between religiosity and spirituality. And there's so many people that are religious, whatever their denomination is, right, whatever their faith background is. And they might be religious and ritual, but they're not spiritual. There's plenty of people who are ridiculously spiritual, and it has nothing to do with, you know, specific doctrines, rituals, right?

Yeah. So I remember my parents, you know, you know, I'm, like I said, I'm getting a little older. And I remember, you know, to your point, I mean, I'm spiritual. I mean, but my mom used to call me up when she was alive and say, did you go to church? You know, today, to go to church on Sunday? I was like, Mom, I And, you know, I didn't go to church, but I can still pray. I don't believe you have to be— I can still be spiritual without going through the actual act of going to church. So to your point, again, that just made me think about that when you talked about that.

Yeah. Is there any, like, in addition to that, right? Because that's such a profound thing of like how we— I remember my mom before my bar mitzvah.

Yeah.

She said to me, by the way, you know, when you're making your list, you know, you can invite who you want. I'm like, yeah, I know. She's like, no, no, no. Like, you can invite whoever you want. It doesn't just have to be, you know, your Jewish friends, because I know you're right. I know we have not— we also have non-Jewish friends. So I wanted to make sure that you— like, it was, it was so cool that, like, you know, there's different ways that different people influence with different things, especially when it comes to, to faith and culture and stuff like that, or even with careers. Um, is there something that stands out? Right, because, you know, your dad— you went into your dad's footsteps in, in your own way, right? Now we were talking about that in our pre-conversation. Is there a memory or a teaching or something that really has had some profound influence on you as it led you into this world?

You know, I learned, you know, through my dad and of course my mom, you know, honesty and integrity, you know, doing the right thing. And you're going to fall, you know, throughout life. We all do. We all falter. We all fail. But the point, you know, the purpose— or my dad always taught me, you know, you got to get back up and keep going. You know, and that's, I think, one of the misnomers out there with people struggle with is, you know, I failed, I'm not gonna, I'm just gonna be a failure. No, you're not. I mean, you're only a failure if you think that way. So I was taught, you know, honesty, integrity, and those core values, and, you know, loving each other. And, but I, you know, I don't live in a bubble, you know, I have bad days too, and everybody does. But the big thing that my dad and my parents taught me, and that was reinforced, obviously, in law enforcement and the military was, Look, if you fall off that horse, you better get back on, because life is just gonna keep coming. You know, life doesn't let up. So a lot of people, unfortunately, Jason, you know, this is being doing what you're doing. You know, once they get in that rut, they stay in that rut, and they can't get back on that horse, or they can't, you know, they can't, it is very, very tough for them. But life is about failure. It's what, you know, what you're going to do with that failure is going to determine your success or staying in that rut. So those are the, those are the core things I learned throughout my life, mainly, you know, to be resilient. It really comes down to being resilient, you know, getting up and keep going. Yeah.

And I know both you and I talked about this as I went through some of your blog posts about creating the team around you to support you.

Right?

I think, I think it's huge. I was, I was giving a class last night to young professionals. And we were talking about like, one of the challenges of being successful is knowing who to delegate to and knowing who's better at it than you are. And I said, I remember years ago, um, someone that I met through at a friend's house for dinner, uh, invited me to meet them for coffee. And I thought it was purely social. And it turns out it was like a hardcore sales pitch for life insurance. And, uh, my God, like that was a bait and switch. At least he paid for my coffee, but I'm like, you know, so, but I realized years later, besides the fact that that turned me off, one of the many reasons why now looking back through my entrepreneurial journey of why I didn't want to work with him and why I'm glad I didn't work with this person is because they live in the same apartment complex as me.

Yeah.

And it's not because that person's a neighbor. It's because if he's— if this person's gonna be my financial planner, I don't want them living in the same place that I can afford to live in.

Exactly. Right. Yeah.

So, so when we're talking about building teams, and I think this is one of the most beautiful things. So I've had clients that have been in charge of logistics in the Army. I've had Right? I mean, from Rangers, I've had— but I love hearing the logistical side, not just like going out and fighting side, but all of the stuff that it takes to make this system run. And of course, there's bureaucracy and red tape like there is in everything, and procurement issues and, right, budget issues. But I think like the greatest example of like how these— like this, how do these— how does this work? It's such a network of systems. And who do you need to bring into your life? So what's— what are some some insights you have about how can people find that team to help them get to where they want to go?

That's such a great question. You know, I think Jim Rohn, late, great Jim Rohn, said you're the average of the 5 people you associate with.

Yeah.

And so I think it comes down to, you know, doing kind of an assessment of who's in your life right now, Jason, for the listeners. Who's in your life? You know, I mean, friends, family, things like that. Are those people bringing you up or they're bringing you down? We talked about weeding your garden.

Yeah.

You know, one of the things I told my son before he went off to basic training in the Air Force is I said, when you get to basic training, it'll happen. You'll have people that want to quit, that have people that want to quit, but you know, they don't want to go alone. They want to bring you with them. Stay away from those people. I'm not saying it's going to be some, you know, it's gonna be a great time. It's gonna be tough. It can be mentally and physically tough, but you want to be around the people that are, you know, pushing and gutting it through. And, you know, having that proper mindset that I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna get there. And he did. But for the people out there, again, it really comes down to, I always tell people to do a people assessment. I know that sounds kind of crass or kind of maybe rude or something. But really, you should be very, very, very passionate about who you're surrounding your time with. It's your time. You know, so I would encourage people to do a kind of an assessment or inventory, whatever you want to call it, of people in your life. And are they, are they helping you? Are they hindering you? And I guarantee everybody out there has both, maybe some, maybe it's lopsided. And we talked about weeding your garden. Sometimes you need to get rid of people in your life. I know that sounds mean, but hey, I've had, you know, friends in my life that have come and gone mainly because they were just too negative and toxic for for me. When it comes down to, you know, who do you want to surround yourself with? I want to be around— look, Jason, I don't want to be the smartest guy in the room. I don't— if I'm an entrepreneur, if I want to start, if I didn't have a podcast and I wanted to start one, I'd go to somebody like you and say, Jason, can you help me? Can you mentor me? Can you help me? Can you help me start a show? You got a successful show. How did you do it? Would you mind picking my— you know, can I pick your brain? Can I have 2 minutes of your time? So many people get afraid of doing that. They just don't want to reach out to people. They want to do it by themselves.

So, Really afraid of the no.

Yeah, exactly.

They're crazy. And I've come up with this idea that the worst— right, people think the worst that the person can say to them is no. Yeah, but it's not. I think the worst that they can say is yes, because you know what has to happen? You have to rise up and step up to the occasion and change your game plan. If they say no, you're just in the exact same place. Nothing has moved. Yes, the needle hasn't moved. The yes is the quote-unquote worst part because now you got to game up.

Yeah, exactly. And I tell people, you know, you know, we're kind of digressing a little bit talking about podcasts. I remember when I started my show, Jason, you probably experienced this. I would reach out to, to guests, you know, and I was so afraid of them saying no. A lot of— some of them did, a lot of them didn't. And then I was like, oh crap, they said yes. Now, what I would encourage people to— if you're talking— I know we told people to to start a show. And I agree with, you know, if you want to start a show, start a show. But the one thing, here's a little tip, is that you got to bring value to the person that you want to, you know, to come on your show, you're asking advice from. But I really do believe that for people out there, you know, to get those teams and to gather those teams, first of all, you got to put your ego at the door. And you got to realize that you can't do it alone. Takes a team, takes a village, whatever you want to call it. And I would, you know, seek out the people people that are already doing it, you know, and kind of copy what they're doing. Not exactly, not, I mean, copy, copy, but look what the successful people are doing and do what they're doing. But as far as you just got to be passionate about who you're surrounding yourself with. I remember, Jason, before I retired law enforcement, I had friends that, you know, friends, I don't, you know, talk to them all the time, but friends that said, oh, you're gonna, you're gonna be back, you know, you're not, you're not gonna make it out there. You're, you've been a cop for too long. And these are my quote, friends that were telling me that. And I was like, okay, and never looked back. So a lot of people could buy into that, you know, or they can go forward.

And they're putting their own stuff on you. It's not, it's not yours. Exactly.

And so that's a great point. So most of the time when people are telling you, oh, Jason, you can't do it, or so-and-so, you can't do, you're gonna fail. Those are exactly what you said, their insecurities.

Yeah.

Coming out and they're trying to pass that on to you. One of the greatest, one of the best stories I heard, maybe you heard this story, you know, guy and his wife are walking down the beach and there's a guy who's fishing for crab off the beach and he's got this, as they're passing, there's this big bucket of crab, you know, and big full bucket crab and the wife and husband are walking by and the husband looks back and notices one of the crabs is trying to get out of the bucket. And so he yells at the guy and says, hey man, 'One of your crabs is trying to get out of the bucket right here.' And the fisherman said, 'Oh, he won't get out.' And the guy's like, 'No, he's almost out of it.' He said, 'No, no, he won't get out. Watch.' And what do you think happened?

He got stuck.

The other crabs pulled him down, pulled him back into the bucket. And so that's what a lot of people try to do in your life. You know, people who are well-intentioned, you know, they want the best for you. You really got to be really cognizant of who you're surrounding yourself with. So there's a lot of crabs out there. Don't, you know, don't fall into it.

I'm thinking about the, you know, since we're in the middle of the pandemic and everybody's been for their mental health, it's funny how like we've all been like, don't, don't binge TV shows. But right now, like, it might be good for our mental health to like pick, you know, pick, have a few good shows that we're bingeing during this time. So I was watching the Marie Kondo, the mat, right, the tidying up, right? She's like that little expert of home organization. And I see it the same way because she, she has these two lines that she says that if you're going to throw something away, it has to spark joy. If you're going to keep it, right, you have to pick it up, hold it, and does it spark joy? So people are more used to that one. And then the second thing she says is, if you're still not certain, do I want to take this item, or will this item help me get to where I want to go?

Yeah, love that.

So if we apply that to what you just said, does this person spark joy? In my life? And two, is this thing, this person, this experience with them, is that going to get me to reach my potential?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a really clean way of making that decision.

And I think a lot of people are just so worried about, um, you know, asshole—

they're afraid of being a dick, being an asshole, or being a whatever. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think, and especially with family, you know, I have the— I had a discussion with my, my I was talking to one of my good friends a couple of weeks ago, and he was saying, you know, I got, you know, this one cousin that's just constantly just trying to bring me down, bring me down. And I said, well, have you talked to the cousin about it? He's like, ah, you know, I just don't want to hurt his feelings. And I was like, well, then the problem's with you. You gotta say something to him. Because, you know, I mean, and sometimes the truth hurts, you know, I mean, but you have to start that conversation with them. And you can do it from a place of love. You don't— again, I'm not trying to— I should have said, I'm not trying to, you know, jettison people out of your life. You can still love them, but you want the best for them. But you don't have to spend all this time with them.

Yeah, right. Or have the conversations like you said. This is the outcome that I want. This is what I'm noticing. This is what I'd like to have happen. Are you in agreement with me on this?

Exactly.

I don't, right? And I see that with couples all the time. I just had this with someone the other day. I said, start the conversation with your partner about saying, before we get into the nitty-gritty, I want to let you know that there is nothing that you're— that I will ever let happen that will make me not love you. And I'm only coming to talk to you about this place that I want to make sure that that also happens for you.

Love it. Yeah.

And there's nothing that I'm gonna be— that, that I'm gonna let get in the way of us ever having anything less than an amazing relationship. Are you on board with that idea with me?

Once you get the agreement there, then you can go from a different advantage because you're, you're setting the ground rules or you're setting foundation, whatever you want to call right on, right at the beginning.

Yeah.

You know, I love that. That's a great idea.

So if we can go into those type of dynamics, I also remember hearing last year Gary Vaynerchuk, right? You were talking about Gary Vee. So Gary Vee is like, he was talking about that concept, right? The 5 friends. And he goes, you have to make sure you get rid of that loserest friend and you can replace it with someone who's at a higher frequency. And then he goes, but what happens if you look around and you realize you're the loserest friend?

Yeah.

Because everybody's like, well, we got, right, you have to find somebody else, Jim Ropes, right? So someone else is worse than me. But what happens, like, but this is where you're talking about, like, taking that real accounting of yourself.

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's amazing. It's so interesting you brought up Gary Vee. Huge fan of Gary Vaynerchuk. And I remember watching— you've probably seen this. I think it was a keynote that he gave, Jason, where he comes out on stage and he says 400 trillion to 1.

Uh-huh.

And people are like, what's this? Right.

Yep.

Your chances of being born I mean, that really put things into my perspective when I started really trying to dissect that. 400 trillion to 1. Yeah, it's amazing, you know. I mean, how we— a lot of us, I know I have— to take life for granted. But when you look at the statistical probability of somebody being born, it truly is staggering.

Yeah. And then he compared it, I think, in addition to that, to like, you could have been born at the right— the 400 trillion to 1 is the statistical chance of you being born a human.

Exactly right.

With all the genetics and all the species and all the— right, everything in the universe that's ever been created. So I think he's like, you know, you could have been a hair on a baboon's ass. That could have been the genetic makeup of your experience in this world, and yet you were born a human, right? So I love— like, I remember sharing that with my— when that came out with my therapy clients. Like, I'm like, listen, I'm not minimizing your problem, but I just want to give you this little 45-second you know, in between all the F-bombs that he drops. So, oh yeah, but it's right, but it's great. But it's so right that that's a gratitude context. And like, I love the fact, and I'm sure you're in alignment with me on this, that this entrepreneurship space, what you're talking about as well, right, is that the gratitude mindset is so profound.

Yeah, I, it's, you know, I mean, I, I can't stress this enough. That I mentioned my faith, but I mentioned, you know, other things, mindfulness, one of those, you know, is just grateful. And, you know, my feet don't hit the floor, Jason, until I go through not only expressing gratitude, but feeling the gratitude. For me, it's feeling the gratitude. So the first thing I do before I get out of bed is, first of all, I'm thanking God I'm here. I have one more day, you know, on earth. I'm thankful to be alive. I'm thankful for my health. I'm thankful for my home. I'm thankful for my beautiful family and my kids. That really sets the tone for me throughout the way, out the day. Because look, I'm not trying to discount what people were going through in their life, but always somebody has it worse than you. Always. And you have much to be grateful for. I don't have, you know, I'm in debt, I lost my job. Okay, but you're alive. Right? So start at the very beginning. And that helped me tremendously throughout my life and continues to help me. I mean, I practice gratitude every day. And when I practice gratitude, Jason Wasser, when I don't practice gratitude in the morning, I definitely can feel it throughout the day.

Yeah. Yeah.

When I practice gratitude, it's a game changer for me. So if you don't have a gratitude practice out there, I encourage people to start one because it will change your life.

Well, you're changing your physiology. And especially when you said that, like when you said it's not just what I'm thinking about it, but I get into the feeling of it. So that feeling part, that emotional is your limbic system.

Of your, of your, of your, of your brain, and that's the mammalian brain.

So we have our neocortex is our rational brain. That's the storytelling, right? This makes sense. I know that you're in Colorado and I'm here. Then you have your, your limbic system, which is the mammalian, which is all about your emotions, and it's timeless. So it's like when a great song from like back in the day comes on and you're like snap back right into that experience. That's that same part of the brain. And then your reptilian brain is the survival instinct. Exactly. Like the 4 Fs: flight, fight, flight, feeding, and reproducing. So, right. But when there's an incongruency between those, we're going to have stress patterns built up. So the fact that you are— you're spot on with that. And I want people to hear that so clearly. Don't just talk about what you're grateful for. Feel the experiences, have those home movies playing in your head, those snapshots, and walk through that. And here's the cool thing. Even if it hasn't happened yet, your physiology, your nervous system will respond the same way, whether it's actually physically in front of you, or you're conjuring up that experience, even if it hasn't happened. And that will change your entire physiological cascade. Scientifically proven.

Yeah. And I'm a big believer, and I'm assuming you are, Jason Wasser, in the law of attraction. Yeah. And I— my God, I mean, it is— if you would have told me, we would have been talking about this a handful of years ago, I would have been like, yeah, Look, you're emitting energy and you, you know, you're—

that's too woo-woo—

you're attracting what you're putting out there. So if you think life sucks and my job sucks, and guess what? That's what the universe is going to give you. I'm not saying you live in a bubble, you don't have good days, but your frequency, whatever you're putting out there, it's the law of attraction. Yeah, you're going to get back. And so again, I mean, try to think positive, you know. Life isn't all bad. Yeah, you might be going through some some hard times, but that's going to define you. You're not defined by the stuff you're going through right now. And that's another thing that people get hung up on. Well, you know, I lost a bunch of money. Okay, you're a moment in time. You're not defined by this moment. You can if you want to be.

Yeah. You know, how did all that money get to you in the first place?

Exactly. Attraction. Yeah. Frequency, law of attraction. So, and to prove that point, Jason, you know, think of how many people, I mean, look at, maybe not people, people know, but think Look at people who have lost tons of money. And you know what? Why do they have tons of money again? I wonder why. Did it just magically fall in their lap? No, it's that law of attraction, that abundance mindset. You know, we live in this, you know, a lot of people live in this scarcity mindset. Oh, there's not, there's not enough. Are you kidding? There's more than enough. You just have that scarcity mindset. Now, the key to all this is, again, it's not going to fall in your lap, is backing it up with action.

Yes.

Doing that gratitude, doing the journaling, listening to great shows like yours, you know, putting good things into your body, taking care of your body, your mind, your soul. All that stuff takes action. This doesn't come to you.

Yeah. I was thinking about a quote that you were talking about when, you know, waking up and this awesomeness of waking up and having that gratitude. Rabbi David Aaron, who's an amazing author and motivational speaker, I remember once I was in a lecture of his. I spent a summer learning with him at an educator training seminar in Jerusalem. He grew up in Canada, and he was talking about the idea of like, you know, we are— our generation will know this, but finish the sentence: the best part of waking up is—

I keep thinking of Folgers.

There you go, right? Is Folgers in your cup, right?

Folgers in your cup, right?

So his— then the question was, why isn't the best part of waking up that you woke up? Right? So that immediate gratitude, it's a really— we're programmed in a certain way. I can't get my day started till I have my coffee. That's marketing. And guess what they're doing, right? If you read Simon Sinek's Start With Why, right? You can skip the book, go right to the YouTube videos, guys. Like, it's just like, you'll get it all there. I'm a big fan of just like finding the book version on YouTube videos explained, right, in a half hour instead of, you know, as my massive book collection hopefully will, you know, just condense itself. But right, all marketing is based on the 3-Brain Theory that we just walked through.

Yeah.

And, and you're being marketed through your neurology. But if we can— right, so I can't get my day started till I have my coffee. I can't do this with my life unless I'm making X amount of money. I can't propose to my girlfriend, whatever, until I'm able to afford this type of ring, or— right? I— all of these excuses that we make are just self-made.

Yeah, exactly right. And it's not false beliefs, it's that programming that we, you know, I remember growing up, you know, I mean, Jason, you know, I mean, nobody talked about money. Yeah, you can't talk about money. Money's— I remember my dad had this, you know, this view about money. Well, you know, only, you know, people have a lot of money, they, you know, they probably got it, you know, in wrong ways and stuff like that. So I mean, it's programming. A lot of beliefs we have, you know this, Jason, it stems from our childhood and what we were brought up with them and how we were programmed and what we were told and things like that. The reality is, and I've long since changed my belief on money, you know, there's more than enough money out there. Yeah, you got to work for it. But you got to have the right attitude about money. Like I said before, money is a tool.

Yeah.

You know, but there's a lot of people out there that think, well, you know, rich people are just evil. They don't share. Are you kidding? Some of the biggest people with the most money are usually the biggest philanthropists. They're giving away a lot of their money.

Right, right. And it's not just for the tax write-offs. They actually do have a bigger purpose.

It's just for the tax rate.

But right, it helps. What happens?

That law of attraction, Jason. What happens when you start giving away money? It comes back to you. Comes back to you. So the universe is telling you, believe it or not, as some of you might be thinking, this is cheesy. No, it's not. The more you give, the more the universe is going to say, okay, we're going to give you more so you can give. And so it's just that mindset, like we've been talking about, especially when it comes to money. You know, I mean, oh yeah, money's evil. No, money's a tool. If you think, look, or everybody who's rich, you know, they're an asshole. Look, if you are an asshole before, money is just going to amplify that. If you're a good person, you want to help people, you want to kind of continue to give back to the world, money's going to amplify that. So it's just amazing how people kind of think, but it all goes back into that mindset, you know, and that law of attraction. What you put out, you're going to get back.

And the people who believe that if you have that, they're an asshole, then you're going to repel experiences that allow you to be as successful as you potentially could be. Because there is that, like, well, if I'm going to be like them, then I'm going to be an asshole too. Well, you might be an asshole already for believing that about people, right, without giving them the chance to just be who they are. And I know that— my— like, I grew up— I was the scholarship kid growing up in a very affluent community. And I believe that because, like, my friends were getting Range Rovers at 16 years old, and I'm like, uh, my parents are getting divorced and I'm on scholarship, right? So I had this money mindset that I had to let go of, and really the most profoundly over the last couple years. And I saw within 4 months my private practice— like, I think, I think I went up 40-something percent within the first 4 to 6 months after jumping into this environmental— sorry, an entrepreneurial mindset with the right people who are like, wow, you're wealthy beyond anything, right?

Putting out there.

Yeah, right.

That's what you're admitting.

Yeah, yeah. Because they were core value driven, they were family driven, they were doing good for the community, they cared about their family, they weren't— there was not— there wasn't douchebaggery. But yet, right, my belief was x equals y. I'm like, oh, well, I've never allowed myself to be in an environment.

If you—

to be different.

Yeah. And, you know, again, it goes back to that mindset of money. Look, Wallace D. Wattles, you know who that is. Wallace D. Wattles, you know, wrote, um, you know, a very famous book, I believe it was in 1912, called The Science of Becoming Rich, The Science of Money, essentially. And one of the things that he talks about is his chapter, which is the biggest chapter, Jason, in his book, very I mean, he could see very ahead of his time. Talks about gratitude and the law of attraction. So, again, even then, you know, some of these great, you know, following—

Napoleon Hill and all that.

Yeah, Napoleon Hill. And even go back to the Bible. I mean, there were rich people, but we've been ingrained, you know, Joseph, all these, you know, people that in the Bible were multimillionaires. Yeah. You know, but a lot of us were grown up, you know, just conditioned to believe that money's evil. Money's a terrible thing and there's not enough of it. And I just, over the years, I've just changed my mindset and more is coming to me. Like you said, your practice is exploding. That's a testament to who you are, but that's your relationship and the energy you're putting out there about money. I mean, it just blows me away about people's mindset with money sometimes.

So those who are only listening to the audio and not watching the video version, I have this huge grin on my face right now because you just, my friend, just mentioned Joseph. And this week's— in Judaism, the, the Bible portions are split up weekly, and it's, you know, every year it starts over. And this week's Bible portion is about Joseph interpreting for Pharaoh and the, all the other people in his, in his court. The dreams and the storehouses and all that stuff is this week's Torah Bible portion that's being read this week. So the beautiful thing— so there was, um, the book that I give this class on for young professionals, it's on leadership and psychology. And so it's, it's, it's on Wednesday nights. And so right now it's— today's Thursday. So the, the book is called Lessons in Leadership by Rabbi Jonathan Sacks. He was the Chief Rabbi of the UK. He just passed away about a month ago from cancer. He was universally recognized, just a really wonderful human being, just brilliant, brilliant, brilliant writing. Things. So I'm using that book, Lessons in Leadership, each week. And he talked about the 3 things very much in correlation and what Joseph had. What was Joseph's 3, uh, traits? One is that he was a dreamer of dreams. He didn't let anybody tell him that he's full of crap or that you're making— or, and, and buy into the fact, well, maybe you're making this up, this isn't real. He dreamed dreams. This is what can happen. This is what we do. This is how, right? Step 2 was that he put those dreams into action. He would interpret it and say, here's what needs to happen now. We need to make these storehouses, we need to build up for 7 years of famine. And then the third was that he delegated and brought people along. Yeah, engage in that dream. He delegated, he empowered. And in order to be a leader— and it's— that's why I was cracking up when you mentioned Joseph. Like, of all of— like, of all the— right, I'm— this— I don't know, I'm up to at least 100 recordings even though only episode 79 has been released. But of all the recordings, knowing in the synchronicity of what you just said, as we're of course talking about law of attraction, you mentioned Joseph, and last night my class was on Joseph. Yeah, yeah, it was right. It's— to be a leader, you need to dream dreams. Yeah, to be a leader you need to make really powerful action steps. And to be a leader, you need to know how to engage other people to buy into that for the greater good, to uplift everybody else.

Absolutely. You know, absolutely. And, you know, leadership is one of those things that it's so important. Obviously, Jason, you know that. But I think it's lacking. You know, a lot of it is lacking now. And it's going to be interesting to see what the future holds. But I agree with you 100%. You know, a leader is is, you know, has that vision and puts things into action, he or she. And most importantly, he's taking people with him or her.

Yeah.

So they're along for the ride.

So the next step and next stages for you, right? You have your podcast, you have a book.

I have a book called Evolve. Here, a little shameless plug right here.

Please plug it away.

For my little micro book that I wrote for first responders and military. It's really applicable to everybody. Evolve is an acronym Jason Wasser, and I wrote it again for first responders. The E is Elevate. We talked about mindset. Elevate Your Mind is the first portion of the book. That's the E. The V is Visualization. It's very important. You know, we got to visualize where we want to go. I think the science proves it, you know, visualization is very important. Others is the O. That's the who you're surrounding yourself with is so key in life, personally and professionally. You know, the other L is love yourself. Look, if you're not loving yourself, and I know some people have said, well, you're a narcissist. No, no, no, you can love yourself, Mac. You should love yourself because in order for you to love anybody else, how are you going to do it if you don't love yourself first? Victories is V. You got to celebrate those victories, even small victories. You have victories every day. The biggest is you woke up, And E is every day be your best. And that is the book Evolve. And you can go to my website and get the free PDF version of it if you want to read it.

Yeah. So those of you who do want that, and you should definitely check it out, it's thecjevolution.com. You can find out about the Evolve coaching. You can have the podcast archives that are there. You can get the book there. I'm assuming your podcast is in all the same platforms.

Yeah, Stitcher, you know, Apple. Yeah, everything. Yeah, IHeartMedia. So yeah.

And here's my ask of people who are listening. So please, please, please, number one, if anything that we've talked about today brought value to you, or you know that it's going to bring value to someone, if you have a friend or a family member that's in that first responder service community, please, the criminal justice community, please point them in the direction of the Criminal Justice this evolution podcast, the CJ Evolution podcast. And two, if you love what he had to share, you love what we talked about today, go on iTunes, leave— find the podcast, subscribe to the podcast, leave a positive and starred review. So here's the cool thing that people don't know. It actually allows us— it's like an algorithm in some way, shape, or form, like Instagram and Facebook and Google changing it every 2 weeks, right? It allows us to get seen by more people and show up in different ways. Than just people having to search for it by keywords or buzzwords. So if you found any value, please, please, please subscribe to the CJ Evolution. Again, if you're part of this community, the first responder, the servicemen and women of our great country, go there to the CJ Evolution. Go to RZU Winning Life Podcast, right? No charge. I'm not doing any Patreon stuff at this point, you know, any of that stuff. I'm doing this purely as, you know, the light, and as you— I'm sure you might be as well. Leave us a positive 5-star review. Check it out. Subscribe to— on Instagram, please follow us. There's been a little bit of a shift. It's You Winning Life on Instagram, and yours is— to follow yours on Instagram?

Oh, I'm sorry, CJ_ or CJEvolution_podcast.

There we go. Cool. Awesome, awesome. All right, so Patrick, thank you so much.

Thank you, brother.

Happy, healthy New Year. You should continue to be having this honor being on your show. Thank you, thank you.

All right, buddy.