10X Your Business: An Interview with Noah Kagan

Welcome to the Evidence Based Chiropractor, providing you with elegant and efficient research based content to help your practice prosper and succeed. Now get ready for a variety of dynamic communication tools designed for immediate growth, courtesy of your host, Dr. Jeff Langmaid.

Hello and welcome to the Evidence Based Chiropractor. I AM your host, Dr. Jeff Langmaid. This week is one of my favorite episodes we have ever released. It is a special interview with Noah Kagan. Noah is a friend of mine and Noah was the 30th employee at Facebook, the fourth employee at Mint, and has since created four multi million dollar businesses. His latest obsession is Sumo.com which is free marketing tools for small businesses to become big. And he also found appsumo.com, which is daily deals for entrepreneurs. So Noah is a very interesting guy. He has been very, very successful. And today he took a few moments out of his unbelievably busy schedule to chat about how you and I, as chiropractors, can use some of the same principles that he has learned to grow and develop our practice. Before we dive in, I'll say a few words about Rock Tape. You know, Rock tape, rock stock 2017 is coming up in September. I am actually traveling to Anaheim this week for California Chiropractic Association Sports symposium. And I will be back next month for rock stock 2017. A little bird told me that tickets are running thin. It is looking like it's gonna sell out. It is an event that you do not want to miss. Beautiful Huntington Beach, California again. I'll be out there filming, chatting, doing Facebook live. I'd love to meet up and chat with you if you're out there. So rock stock 2017 is fast approaching. Get your tickets now. Now, before it is too late. And without further ado, here is myself and Noah Kagan.

All right. And we are here with the man, the myth, the legend. Rabbi can't lose Noah Kagan. And you've always struck me as somebody who's extremely deter, like this combination of determined and inquisitive, which I think is similar to a lot of chiropractors out there. And I guess my first question to kick it off to you and how intertwined do you believe that curiosity and success are?

Ooh, I never thought about that one. What up, chiropractors. I've definitely had some suplexes on my back from these guys and girls. They are phenomenal. They've helped me. Back problems, arm problems. So super into the Cairo stuff. I think it's huge. I guess I look at it more as a level of dissatisfaction. And that's how you get to create new things. Because you're like, I want things to be better. But you can also just say, instead of dissatisfaction, curiosity. I don't know if that could be learned or not. That's kind of a philosophical question I haven't thought about. I just am always kind of inquisitive myself. And I think that's a healthy way for any business to be. Like, how can we be better?

And I think a lot of that gets. Probably the core of it really is the problem solving, right? I mean, it's like, how do you identify a problem and how do you solve that problem, whether through technology, healthcare.

Whatever the case may be, Completely. So it also depends on what you get really excited about. And I think sometimes when you have a practice, it's really hard because 18 to 5, you're seeing people, you're struggling on that, you're really tired, you maybe don't have your secretary quit, your other chiro help assistant is out of town, your tech. And then to make time for other things is really hard. And so what I've tried to do is like, what am I really damn good at? And I love marketing. And so what I think more practices probably need to do is like, hey, if you're a great Cairo, just be a great Cairo. But then find someone to go and assist you with, hey, let me go do your marketing for it. And so what I try to do is find people who make great products. Like, so the developers@Sumo.com, they make great products. Then I'm like, shit, I got to go tell the whole world about this. And so just figuring out where your strong suit is, because I have noticed my brother's a doctor as well, and it's hard because he tried to start his own business, which is very difficult. And he tried to do marketing, and he's like, you know what? I just kind of like being a doctor. And so it's actually allocating that time to say, hey, how do I actually grow my practice? In committing saying, all right, well, I'm not going to have patience for half of Monday or one day a week, 20% of your time, and commit that time to growing the business, which is actually what will, you know, free you up to really expand the business in the long run.

Yeah, no doubt. And that kind of tailors right into what I wanted to ask you next. So I know you have a podcast that's awesome as we're talking about a little bit. And you mentioned recently on Your podcast really, that your passion with that is to help successful business owners become more successful. And talk to my audience a little bit, like, how does Sumo fit into that? Like, where have you found the kind of your niche on helping successful business owners become more successful?

Yeah, I think it more resonates about the things I get excited about and who I like talking to. And ultimately, I've tried it. And so I think one of the things related to a chiropractic practice is like, thinking about the ideal person that's coming. Is it an old person? Is it a woman? Is it a man? Is it transgender? I don't care. But it's actually saying, well, I'm not gonna serve these group, and I'm only focusing on this. And you actually get known for that. Maybe you're the executive chiropractor and you only help CEOs. And so with Sumo in our business, AppSumo.com, which is our Groupon for geeks, and our Sumo.com, which is our marketing tools for small businesses, kind of just started coming to the realization, like, I hate entrepreneurs. I hate these people who just want to buy books or, you know, listen to podcasts but not do anything. And I just really resonated with people who said, hey, I took your advice. Like you, Jeffrey. Like, I took your advice and I went and did this, and I have this business, and I'm working hard versus the people who just are playing with it. And so that's what I want to serve. And so Sumo Tools, we're building them, is really just catering to that market.

And with that, what's kind of a few quick wins. I think speaking to your ideal client, basically, we're talking about is like, hey, speak to your ideal client. Like, don't hesitate to speak directly to them because you're going to resonate with them and turn off far less people than if you try to speak to everybody, you're really speaking to nobody. But what's a few? Go ahead.

Yeah, I just want to interrupt you just for a second, and I'm not going to apologize because I wanted to interrupt, is that when we're running companies, we don't want to give up customers. And if you're running a practice or you're running an online business, it's really hard to say, well, I can't stop serving them because they give me that money. And you get so greedy and excited. But what happens is if you actually let. So what I've done is try letting them go and only focusing on certain people for three months. And just do it for a three month window and see how it goes. Maybe after three months, if you only focus on Hispanics or you only focus on athletes or whatever it is, see how it goes. And if it's like, hey, actually it wasn't better, fine, then ignore them and go to another group. But what I've noticed is that the more that I've specialized, the more I've been successful. And so in terms of quick wins, you know, changing your titles, like how you just talk about things. When I was working@mint.com we were talking to people who read personal finance blogs. We were not talking to people in debt, which is a very different language. And I think that's an important thing. Secondly, your pricing. Are you talking to an executive? Because for me, what are my, my problem is going to be very different than someone who's maybe low income, you know, because they're just like, hey, whatever is the cheapest. I'm like, yo, I don't want to go that far. Or I want you to come to me, like, do in home service. That's what actually would be ideal. And you could charge me a lot more for that. And so there's different quick wins. Another quick win. For every chiropractic process out there, I'll give two of them. One, they're already going to know and they've heard it, but they're not doing it right. The other one is going to be brand new. The brand new one is actually old. Sorry. Here's how every practice could literally grow today. How have they gotten their first customers? What they've probably done is like, hey, maybe it was from Yelp, maybe it was from referral, maybe it was from Google, maybe it was from Facebook posts, maybe it was from them setting up lunches, maybe it was from them emailing weekly. I don't really care. But what most businesses do, including our own, is we stop doing the things that work. Like you had a practice, right? Yep. And then how did you get your customers?

Yeah, I mean, I think that you're telling the story of my life too. It's like you start, you start doing things, whether it's like a newspaper ad. Maybe when you first open your doors, you do like a press release or a newspaper ad and then you start, you're pounding the pavement. Like you're getting out there working on your business and next thing you know you're in your business saying like, what the hell's going on? Because you stopped reaching out. Because now you're servicing things.

I don't Know what happened? Yeah. So number one, and so the way that I've done it is, and I'm playing to my strengths, is that I find something that works. Let's say I find that holding a weekly lunch with local, targeted audience works. So every week, have a lunch. And then you're like, man, this is hard for me to do. Or maybe call sales. It's like a person just calls once a week to the chamber of commerce, or they call to different companies, whatever it is. But eventually you're like, man, I know this is working. And so what I do at that point, then I hire someone. I think sometimes people hire ahead of it, I hire behind it. I get it working. I see if it works. I'm like, damn, if someone's doing this all day, it would be great for my business, than I hire them. So number one for everyone out there, there's been some way you've gotten your first few clients. How can you do that again today? Is it just reaching out on LinkedIn? Is it posting on Facebook once a week? Are there Facebook groups you're a part of? So that's the first one. Second thing. And this one. You're gonna hate me for saying it, Jeffrey. I know you are, but it's referrals. And everyone always says, I know, I've heard referrals, man. I know it. And I always like to talk about. I'm coming up with a new concept called girlfriend marketing, or how to make a wife. How to get a wife marketing. So let's play a few different scenarios. If you go into a bar and you try to hit on a guy or girl and you say, hey, you're going to be my wife and let's make love tonight, what do you think they're going to say?

They're probably going to say no, unless you are just that awesome. But it's probably going to be a no. It's a little forward.

It's probably a no. And the reason is because you have no relationship with them. And that's how we do all of our business. We're like, hey, you should just come make love to me. The second one is that they're looking. They're looking. So they're like, hey, my back hurts, or I think this hurts. Maybe a chiropractor is part of that solution. And they're looking on trusted advisors or whatever, Google, I'm sure there's a few search engines or directories for chiropractors or Yale, possibly. So they're looking and it's like, well, are you in the right place. So are you on Tinder? Are you on Grindr? Are you on Bumble? Are you on JSwipe, the Jewish one? Are you on the right place for someone who's already raising their hand? Which is good. Now we're getting warmer to getting your wife. And then the ultimate one, though, is if you said. If I say, hey, Jeffrey, you have to be specific. And this is the main thing people miss with referrals. If I say, hey, Jeffrey, who's a Jewish girl that, you know that's single, you're like, actually, this girl's single, and you'd, like, go talk to her. And so then I have a girlfriend, by the way, disclaimer, So I don't want you doing it. And my girlfriend's like, listen to this. She listens. She loves chiropractic podcast. That's her big thing. But so with that, of course, it's like, well, hey, talk to her. And now, because it came through you, it's highly lubricated. Pun intended. And it's much more likely she'll go talk to me. She'll hang out with me. We'll have some report because there's some status being passed from a referral. And so obviously you guys like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. The problem is with referrals, people don't systematize it and they don't incentivize it. So what I mean by that is if I, you know, if I say, hey, give me a referral, you're like, yeah, sure. I don't make it easy for you to lubricate. As I said, lubricate. Like, I have to make it easy for you to say, oh, yeah, who is someone that I should know? Kind of comes back to who your customer is. Secondly, why the hell would I do it? Why would I do it? Right? Is there. Is there an incentive? Do I just like you? Does it make me look good? Do you give them, like, a free thing? Every time they refer someone that's up. You have to figure out the incentive. And the third thing is, how do you make it a routine process? So I was talking to this company yesterday. They have 2500 past clients and existing clients. And I said, have you reached out to every. Because have you reached out to every single one of them to refer one customer? And they're like, I don't think so. I was like, I know you haven't. So the point being is when you reach out, going back to. I'll just repeat it because I think it's important. So Number one, you've got to make it really easy. And how you do that is you give them a very specific request. Can you introduce me to one person who runs a company that's overweight? Maybe that's a good potential client. I don't know. So make it really easy to request. Number two, you possibly got to incentivize them. Why the hell are they going to do it? Are they your friend? Do they get a free session? Do they get half off? Do they get a bonus rubber ball? And then number three is that you've got to keep doing it. What happens is that you do it maybe once. But how do you create more of a machine where it's happening regularly?

I love those three because I think they really speak to probably the strengths of a lot of chiropractic practices. But they're not utilizing the systems and the mindset to do it and the systems to back it up. Because a lot of practices are built off referrals. Those are the best people you can get in. Right? No matter what kind of business you are, you know, if you have somebody that's a satisfied client, but you got to go after it, I think is really.

You got to go after it. And the part that's hard is that you're working nine to six, you're really tired. You got to block out that one day for the growth. And that's where you're going to get the 2 to 5x to 10x growth. One other suggestion that I think is the biggest problem with chiropractors or top problem is that I'm not generally thinking about my chiropractor all the time. I'm thinking about them in specific times. Right. I'm thinking about them when I'm hurt. So how do I find that person? Or secondly, how do I stay top of mind with people? So who's hurting themselves all the time? CrossFit people.

Oh, yeah.

So, but the point is, is like you got to find people who are either looking at that moment or generally hurting themselves. So those are people raising their hand that need you. But the second thing, and there's two ways of doing it. So those are the kind of the groups that are great looking already or potentially they hurt themselves a lot. The second part is you got to stay top of mind. So are you sending a weekly email or a monthly email? And look, you're like, hey, no, I'm busy. Fine, take your phone out, record a little video. That's a tip of the week. Hey, here's your stretch of the week. To be more mobile and not see me again. Right. And create not like a marketing pitch, but something actually helpful once a week, once a month, that they can actually be like, oh, yeah, you know, Dr. Langman, that's the guy I'm gonna definitely go hit up. Or if you don't want to do the weekly email, put it up on YouTube and start educating people like, hey, here are ways that you can be. And you can just record some of your sessions and make it really easy on yourself. But the point is, you got to find the people either at the right time or they're generally going to hurt themselves. And then you got to stay top of mind with them. Because with chiropractor, yesterday someone emailed me, literally or two days ago. They messaged, hey, who's the chiropractor I should use? And now I start spending. This is what happens. I started spending 15 minutes looking for the one I've gone to in the past. I couldn't find it. I even looked on Yelp and I just gave up. And then someone asked again recently, another time recently, and I was like, spent the time and I found it. But I was like, man, it would have been easier if that person kept in touch with me somehow. Like monthly email. So Sumo.com, our server is actually totally coincidental. It's free, helps you collect emails so that you can message your customers or potential customers once a month.

Yeah, I think those are huge wins. And the other thing about Sumo is any of the listeners out there that have been to the evidencebasedchiropractor.com I use it. So they've seen it, they're listening to the podcast, they've probably seen it in action. So I think that that's, that can be a huge, a huge, huge win for them and, you know, kind of moving forward, moving with that same, with that same thought process. So as someone who's kind of been in successful companies, grown successful companies, this is, this is a little bit high level. But I'm curious on your opinion. You know, what kind of action or personality trait do you think is really the greatest contributor from an individual perspective? I mean, do you like, look for goals? Are you a goal setter? Are you just a straight determination guy networking, you know, what kind of top level thought process, either action or trait, do you feel like you've seen in other founders, in other entrepreneurs, in other business owners that have led to their success and that you may hold on your own?

Well, I'm working backwards from the people that I've that I've hired that. I'm just like these. They are game changers, okay? And the problem with hiring is that it takes time and it's an investment. It's just like growing the business. You have to put the time into it, and you will get out whatever you put in. You spend very little time to hire people. You're probably going to get out a pretty shitty person. I've almost always found that to be the case in terms of the people that I've hired that I've just. That have blown me away. One, they're positive. They are a positive person. And what that leads to is they're thinking of solutions. There are people I've worked with that are complaining about things not working and how it's not. I'm like, I know it's not working. I don't need to pay you to tell me that. That seems expensive. But I'm looking for positive people. Number two, I'm looking for people that follow through. So follow through is huge. How many times, I don't know if you bought yourself, Jeff, do you prefer Jeffrey or Jeff?

Jeff's cool.

Jeff. Jeffrey or Jeff?

Either or. It's all good.

All right, so Jeffrey, so how many times have you said, hey, can you send me that thing? Or, hey, can you do this? And they come back and they don't come back, or they come back, like, way later. And I was like, well, if I have to remind you, what are you doing? So I look for someone who's gonna follow through every time. I don't have to think, oh, do I have to check back with them? I hate checking back. Right? Because I want to focus on other things. And number three, I want someone who basically, and you can look through this in their past history, they take ownership of things and they make it better than you could have imagined. So here's some examples, because I think stories tell things better with David. I said, david, I need to help improve some of the marketing on Okdork. He helps me with my personal hobby. And David comes back and he's like, hey, here's all the things I've already done for it, because I know your goal. And I was like, damn, that's better than I could have even thought. Or Chris, who we hired on our content team, and Sarah, they've been running the content for a while, and Chris is a little new, but Sarah's been for a while. They come back showing me some of these articles that I was like, there's no way I can write that myself. And so I Guess the easiest way to measure. The third thing I was saying is that are you learning from them? And that's kind of a very easy way of framing it. Like, are they telling you stuff that you're, you know, oh, wow. That I'm actually getting. I'm growing just by having you around.

I think that's. That's really. I agree. I think that's probably a key factor. And really the whole team growing. Right. I mean, it's that kind of. If you can hire the people that. That know more than you or that can at least contribute at a higher level in their niche in their area of expertise, I think that's huge and probably something that's overlooked because a lot of times I think with all businesses, including chiropractic businesses, like, I gotta fill this hole. And it's like, well, you want to get the right person in there because it's going to pay dividends so much down the road. Exactly as you said. And spend a little bit more time on the front end and you'll get so much more out on the back.

I think that's very true. The hard part with hiring is that it's like dating. Are you married, Jeffrey? Yep. And is your wife the first girl you dated?

No.

I don't know. Maybe in Tampa. It's a little bit different.

No, she is not.

No. So the same thing with hiring is that we wanted generally. The thing is, I've thought, oh, finally found someone. It's super easy. My first date, we're going to get married. It's never the case. And so it's the same thing with hiring. Hiring makes all the difference. Hiring 100% makes the difference between how much bigger you're going to be and how much of a pain in the ass you have to deal with people. But it's really. You have to go on a bunch of dates and a lot of them are going to work out. You have to keep improving your process. But you'll eventually start getting there and you'll be like, oh, wow, this is what it's like.

And to that end, one thing, I didn't really prep you for this one, but you guys do your own conference. Sumo con. I went last year. I'll be back this year. I know there's only a few tickets left. It's the most, you know, I'm just going to set it up. It's the most tactical conference that I had ever been to. So I loved it because I got opportunity to improve my business before I left that weekend. Yeah, was I Pumped up. Yeah. But did I have actual tools and was I doing things that week? I mean, your talk was, let's make the money you spent coming here back before you leave the room that hour, which was super powerful to me, and. And people were doing, like, really doing it. I know.

I'm scared. I hope it'll mess up people's lives.

No, it was awesome. So, like, you know, that's one I'd love for you to talk a little bit about. Sumocon and kind of where that came to fruition, because every chiropractor out there is an entrepreneur. Everyone's a business owner. A lot of these docs are working on their business. They have small teams. They're looking to grow. And to me, whether it's a tech business, a healthcare business, like the tool systems, and kind of exactly as I said, what I learned, I think is just applicable across all businesses looking to grow. So what are some things you're looking forward to this year? Even though by the time the docs listen to it, it might be close to being sold out. But what are some of the big items that you're looking forward to this year?

Well, I think the thing relevant to the doctors is actually not about me because they don't really care about me. They care about their husband or their wife and their kids and their stepdogs, whatever people have these days. I think one of the fascinating things about Sumo Con is that we brought our customers together. And so from a chiropractic standpoint, how can you unite your customers to actually like you more? Because you're the hub and maybe they bring on other friends. So you have a party or you have an informational thing. Maybe you're not in chiropractic. Maybe it's just a workout. And then hopefully people get injured and then you can have them, they don't have to come back. You can do like squats. Like, hey, guys, we're doing deadlifts and squats all day. And so I think number one was fascinating is just. It's really refreshing and amazing and special to bring your customers together. I think that's just a fascinating thing. Secondly, in a chiropractic practice org with Sumo Con, we brought in partners, so people who can actually promote us to their audiences and we can bring them to our customers. And so that's number two. So if you have a chiropractic practice, who's someone that has a gym, who's someone that has a clothing line, who's someone that has a food line, and can you bring them all together. Can you guys do lunches at their place? Can you do events? And how can you use that to expand your customer base? And also the loyalty? Because if we bring in people that teach you something and you're like, wow, that was a really special experience, you're probably going to like the guys or girls who help set that up. I'd say the third thing for me is that you got to create. I didn't really want to go, to be honest. I didn't really want to go because sometimes people treat me differently. Obviously, they like our company and they're like, noah, come and save my business. I'm like, dude, I've got a lot of problems myself. Like, I used to have hair. I don't have hair anymore. Like, shit's going bad. But the thing is that I think we created an event and we curated a certain type of person to come, like someone who has a business. And we made it an event that we wanted to go to. And I think that was a very critical point where at the end of the event, you know, it's important that the customers have a good time. But at the same time, we were like, that was so much fun. And so we did a thing yesterday. Excuse me, two days ago, as we were organizing the event. And I don't know how we came up with this, but we started saying, let's just make a list called epic. Let's just make an epic list. And so we were like, okay, what would make this just epic? And I was like, I've never heard of that before. And so you just kind of list all the things that were like, if we had that, I don't want to spoil it for you, but if we had that. That's crazy. No, no, no. Okay. But even more and then more and then more. And I think that you create this type of epic thing and you make something you look forward to, and it turns out if you're going to have fun, there's a high chance your customers will have fun. Yeah, no doubt, but. And you asked me about hiring just to throw one last thing. And you asked about how to hire the right people. I had nothing to do with Sumo Con. It was not my idea. It was Eamon and the Appsumo team's complete idea. And if you hire people and you more or less give them goals and you give them true autonomy and support them, they create and they want to be successful and, you know, pay them, obviously, really great and they want to go do amazing things, no one wants to be told what to do all day. Like, no one actually, you know, there's times where I want to be. Maybe in bed, I want to be told what to do. Or maybe when we're trying to figure that was a joke, or when we're going to dinner, I want someone to tell me, you know, hey, here's. But there's a lot, you know, in a lot of your life, you like, man, if I could only do what I really wanted. And so if you give people that option, then they're actually going to be really. They'll make themselves successful and yourself successful too. So, yeah, I give all the props to those guys for coordinating an amazing event.

Yeah, they do it upright for sure. And I'm gonna have you touch on one last thing for all this is gonna be specifically for all the new docs listening. And it is. I'm going deep on you here for one of your stories, which is that when you first went to Austin, I'm gonna kind of butcher this a little bit. But you first go to Austin, you're like, I need to meet people. And it gets back to what you said. If you can become the hub. And you were like, buy PBRs all you can drink. And then other people showed up and you're like, man, I just only had to spend 100 bucks. But I got all the people that I wanna meet meeting each other. And then I become the centerpiece of that. I'm kind of stealing your thunder with that. But dive into a little bit of that story, because I remember hearing you talk about that years ago, and that was.

That is old school.

Yeah. So for the new docs out there, if you're just a new in town, you don't know the guy who owns the CrossFit gym. You don't know the medical doctor. You don't know these other people that you want to get with. Totally tell us how you did it. In a little bit different format, but I think it's really applicable.

Well, because sometimes what people say, Jeffrey, they'll say, oh, well, Noah, you have a name on this Internet world, so you can make it easier. It's like I still get tons of people never respond to me and rejecting me all the time. And that means you're trying really hard and you're pushing your limits, blah, blah, blah. So let me give you a recent example of this. So I went and worked from Israel for a month. That was one of my bucket lists for this year. And when I, before I got to Israel, I was like, man, I really would like to Meet people that are in business, that are running startups out there. And so I posted on my social network, I looked on LinkedIn and I looked for friends that maybe have traveled, like you can see on Facebook, people who've traveled there or got photos tagged there. And I reached out to a few of them and I said, hey, who is one person I should meet in Israel? So whenever I'm traveling, I do that all the time. If I'm going to San Francisco, I just think about who are the most impressive people and I say, and I reach out to them and say, hey, let's grab lunch. Who's one person you could bring? I do that every time. That's number one. Number two, I keep a spread. I keep an Evernote file of every city that I go to frequently. So I have an Israel spreadsheet on Evernote or Israel page, and I have an updated list of people that I like and don't like. Well, not that don't like, the don't like, I delete. But basically it's an updated list and I have one for San Francisco, for la, for New York. Because sometimes you. You kind of forget where the hell you're like, oh, I'm going to the city. I don't know anyone there. But it can be the same thing true for your own local area. Here's the last part that's relevant to your story as just a third thing for building up your network and building up relations. I went to Israel and I had one person I knew, his name was Aviv, and I got introduced to him, a friend of mine who's Jewish. I said, yo, who's like the best guy, you know, that runs a startup? As I told you about referrals, I said, you have to make the request easy. Who's one person that's not a lot that runs a startup and that makes it easier that you like the most or that's the most fun to talk to. So he introduced me, this Aviv guy. So I emailed Aviv, I said, hey, man, you seem really cool, really love to meet you. What I'm going to do is I'm going to buy a bunch of wine and falafels and I'll invite everyone over to my place. Can you invite four people that are your friends? And, you know, I'm going to put together a picnic. And so he invited. He ended up inviting six guys that run successful companies. One guy, I talked to two of them actually today still. This is, you know, two months later, but I did that. Wine and falafels thing and it led me to get two friends that I hung out with the rest of the time. And then I was like, man, this falafel and wine thing is the same. It's kind of the same concept. What I did back in the day when I moved to Austin, I said, I emailed one friend and I knew a few and I emailed a few of them and I said, hey, we're going to host a happy hour at this one bar. During happy hour, which is the cheapest. It's an open tab, invite whoever you want. And I made it a Facebook event and I just invited all these people and then they all came out and you kind of meet all the different ones and you pick a few that you really liked and you can do it regularly. So that kind of large scale thing I didn't really want to keep doing. It was good to meet everyone in town. But the falafel in wine, if I was back in Israel I would do it on the regular. Now I'm doing Friday night dinners back in Austin and I'm trying to every week be like, alright, who's one new person that I want to invite to the dinner so you can and just ask for referrals. Be like, hey, who's one cool person that should come next week?

Love it. Noah Kagan, thanks for taking the time killing it on the podcast and make sure everybody out there, make sure to check out sumo.com and okdork and everything else we talk about on the footer here and check out the show notes. Noah, thanks for taking the time and coming on.

Thank you Jeffrey.

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