How to Get Your Best Sleep Ever | AlignaPillow Interview with Dr. Michael Pound

That's one of the most important things when it comes to helping people in pain heal. Because most of the healing happens when we're sleeping, right. And so in order for our bodies to get in that state, we have to be able to sleep well in order to heal well. In order to heal well, we have to sleep well.

If you have struggled with sleep or you'd like to get a better night's sleep so that you can perform your best each and every day, this video is going to be for you. I'm Dr. Jeff Langmaid with the evidence based Chiropractor. I am here with Dr. Pound of Alina Pillow and we're going to have a conversation around sleep, how people can sleep better, and ultimately why this is such a foundational pillar of human performance and being able to live well. Mike, thanks for coming on and chatting today.

Yeah, thank you, Jeff. I'm happy to be here.

It is my pleasure. So tell me a little bit. Let's peel back a little bit. How do you get so interested in sleep?

Great question. So when I started in practice about 15 years ago, I noticed a couple things that really they didn't teach us in school, I should say. And one of the first things I would be, I was told by patients when they came in with non traumatic neck pain was that they slept wrong. And in school I never learned how to sleep correctly or what was the wrong way. But there was like this epidemic of people sleeping wrong and causing neck pain. And the other thing that almost all of my patients would say after they got treated was was that I slept better. Now they may have some soreness or discomfort, but man, I felt great last night, doc. I got best sleep I've had in a while. And I thought that was really, really cool when I started thinking, okay, there's something connected with this pain and sleep.

Little cycle here, and let's just dive a little bit deeper because I know many people out there. I think a strong percentage of individuals struggle getting a good restful night's sleep. Some people get sleep, but it's not restful. Others can't get to sleep at all. Others are light sleepers. Why is sleep such a foundational element of just being able to have a high quality life?

I would say it's even more important than just high quality life. But sleep basically reaches into every part of our life, including a lot of chronic disease, a lot of mental function, and even when we get older, memory loss. And so I believe addressing sleep and addressing sleep problems is one of the number one things we can do, even on top of nutrition and exercise, which I spent a lot of my post grad in nutritional pain management. And so it was really eye opening to see how much sleep actually affects.

Every part of our lives that's impactful. And when I think about sleep, a lot of this relates to the position you're in. And obviously we're going to talk a bit about align a pillow and how this supports a healthy night's sleep. But when somebody thinks about sleep, a lot of times you might think about, well, what position is my body? But positioning your body is many times just as important as positioning your head. So how does posture and sleep fit together?

I love that. So when you look at the general population, 70% of people are side sleepers. And so most people sleep on their sides. As chiropractors, we look at people who sleep on their stomachs, like the smoking person. Right. Like, oh my goodness, that's the biggest crime you could commit. Right. But when you look at most other invertebrates, they sleep in all weird positions. And even when you look at babies who sleep on their stomachs or children, children, they sleep in all weird positions and don't have neck problems. So there is a component in more of a preventative measure, but not so much in, let's say, like it's the healthiest way to sleep. Now that there's been different research on that. For instance, a lot of most of the research says the most comfortable sleeping position is going to be the best position for anyone because it's more important to get deeper sleep. But when you look into things like lymphatic flow, like, like side sleeping is the number one position, the best position to sleep in. And it makes sense. That's why most people sleep that way.

Yep, that makes sense to me. Is there a uniform, you know, best position to have your head in? I know I've looked online at various pillows. Some are thicker, some are thinner. Many you have to like kind of choose. And it's like I don't know which exact one to choose. Is the one size fits all or is it different for each individual?

Yeah. So this is what kind of led me to the invention of this pillow. When I was in practice, we used to sell a bunch of different sizes of pillows for different sizes of people. And when we would measure them in the practice, let's say they were a medium pillow, when they take it home, sometimes they wouldn't be very happy with that size. It didn't feel right or whatever. And then what I started to look into was the fact that some people sleep on soft beds and so they sink a little bit more. And when we're measuring them in the clinic, they're on firm beds. Right. Most of the time. And so their weight, their, the softness or firmness of their mattress has a lot to do with it as well as just how they feel on the pillow. So I wanted to create a pillow. It's not a one size fit all, but it's a one size fit most. Gotcha. And you can actually add extra layers to this pillow to pretty much be a one size fit all pillow. So it was out of some convenience for me. So I only had to carry one type of pillow and then people could take it home. But I have 400 pounds strongman competitors that will stack, you know, five layers up and they love this pillow.

That's cool. When somebody thinks about getting a good night's sleep, it's obvious. When somebody knows that they've been wrestling around all night, that's like, I didn't get a restful night's sleep. What are some of the other, maybe lesser known symptoms associated with not getting a good night's sleep?

Great question. So I have an OURA ring on and it's one of the, it's one of the easiest devices I've come across to measure my sleep. And I've used a lot of them like Muse or, you know, the watches. But the ring I like because it's less intrusive. And I've been able to track over long periods of time, different sleep patterns. And with a device like this, I can tell different things that I'll do, different sleeping hygiene habits that I'll have that make a huge impact on sleep. One of those is how closely I eat to when I go to sleep. Okay. Other things are what I eat before I go to sleep and then obviously what I'm doing right before I go to sleep. Those are probably the three main contributors to how well I'll sleep. Um, and, and, and the studies really support that as well, that if we're not eating right before, our digestive system doesn't have to just hold everything as we sleep.

Okay.

And so we'll sleep better when we're in, in more of a fasted state. Although you think I'm hungry, I don't think I can fall asleep. That has, there's, there's other things that you can do to conquer that. But, and then we've got the monkey brain that we have to also work on. But there's several breathing techniques that I've come Across that are also very effective. Helping with that.

Interesting. So I'll dig down on that a little bit. What's the optimal time to eat? How close do you want to put it or not put it to grab something to eat before you go to sleep. And what are some absolute nos, or if you need a snack, maybe this would be recommended.

Yeah, I cut off four hours before I go to sleep. Okay. And then there's different chronotypes of people. So it kind of depends on when you fall asleep. But I've noticed when I eat larger lunches and smaller dinners, it's better for sleep than the opposite.

Okay, interesting. And one of the things you mentioned earlier was how, you know, many people and many different animals get into crazy positions. Right. You know, to sleep, should the spine be in alignment? Is that a myth? Is that fact? Does it depend on the person? How does head position, body position, and alignment of the spine contribute or not contribute to a healthy sleep cycle?

So I spent a year and I studied 660 people who are looking for pillows.

Okay.

And so we asked them questions about why they were looking for pillows. Over 90% of those people had some sort of neck pain. And so when we started digging deeper into why are they unsatisfied with certain pillows or had problems in certain sleeping positions, it came down to usually a spinal problem.

Okay.

So just like we would say, like, if you have a disc bulge, there's not specific positions that you should be in. Some people do better on their backs, some people do better on their sides. It depends on where the bulge is or what is pressing on or what they're dealing with. The same goes, in fact, when. When we're talking about spinal alignment.

Okay.

In general, yes. You know, we believe that if you have a proper aligned spine, that you're going to be in the best health ever. Just like you brush your teeth, you're going to be good. It doesn't guarantee you won't have cavities, but you're going to. You know, there's other things that you need to do.

Right.

Spinal hygiene is no different. You could go through your entire life and be in proper spinal alignment. And there's other things that could lead to issues down the road, but really, the most of the research supports just getting pressure off those nerves.

Okay, that makes sense to me. And for people that sleep, let's say, with a body pillow, is that a good idea, a bad idea? Does it depend still and is a line of pillow something good to use not only at the head, but the body or how does that work out?

Yeah, it's a recurring answer. Yes, it depends. Body pillows are great. I use my align a pillow between my knees when I'm sleeping on my side and then, and then on my neck as well. But some people need a longer pillow or some people will cuddle their partner.

Yep, that makes sense. For individuals out there that might be. Maybe they're looking for a new pillow. There's so many out there and they're trying to make that, that decision. And maybe they're unaware of even if now is the right time to look for a pillow. What are some key things that you recommend to the patients that you see in practice when they start asking those questions? Is this a time based decision that you've had a pillow X amount of time, so it's time to get a new one? Is it a symptom based. If you're experiencing pain, that's a good indicator. Are there, is there anything else people should be aware of?

So in our research, when we were pulling these people, that's where I got really excited is almost all these people have had neck issues and almost all of them blamed it on an external source, their pillow.

Okay.

So I would often ask the question, okay, so how long have you had that pillow or whatever? Well, I just bought it on Amazon. It's a new pillow. I've been trying different pillows. I'm the pillow princess. I've done it. All right. I said, okay, well, what happened when you gave it to your, your significant other in the same bed? Oh, they loved it. Well, what does that tell you? Well, the problem's probably not the pillow. Then the problem is coming internally. But we don't want to blame ourselves. Right. We think it's something else. We'll buy a new 5,000, $10,000 bed before we'll say, okay, I've got a back issue that needs to get addressed. So what I found was when we started digging deeper, over 85% of these people had spinal issues, some sort of spinal issues. And when we started addressing it, really, the pillow became, I don't want to say obsolete, but proper support is important for prevention but not for treatment. So I would say the pillow is a horrible treatment method or a diagnostic tool. Right. But if you're having issues finding the right pillow, you should actually look deeper and see if there's a problem. Go see your chiropractor and, and see if there's something going on that could be preventing you from getting a good night's sleep. And then once you get it all figured Out. That's the right time to get a pillow and keep things in alignment, keep things supported and then live your best life.

Yeah, I love that. And I think that's a really key point I'm just going to circle back around on for everybody listening and watching, which is, you know, the pillow is really about supporting a healthy lifestyle and if you're experiencing pain or discomfort, you might have something else going on. Now you might also need to change your pillow, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's a pillow problem, so to speak. And let's talk materials for a little bit. There's people out there that utilize, you know, down. There's people that have, you know, synthetic, there's memory foam. Where do you stand on that? And what's, how does align a pillow work on the material side?

Yeah. So I did a lot of research into again when I was developing a pillow, what my patients were looking for, what would last the longest, what was the cleanest material, whatever. Yep. And so it was important to me to have a product that I would sell that I feel comfortable selling in my clinic and that I'd be comfortable having my kids sleep on. So there's a lot of factors to take in into consideration. And so we used a couple of different densities of foam in the pillow. Stay put foam. So it's not going to lose its shape at night as like downer cotton would. The same with shredded foam. We're seeing a lot of these shredded foam pillows come out. They feel great in the beginning, they're soft, they look awesome, but they will lose their shape over time. Whereas I've had these pillows out five years now and no one has ever had an issue with losing shape. Now there's hygiene that we should take into effect account. Some people will put a pillow case over it, but if you're not cleaning it. Yeah, you should probably get a new pillow every couple of years. Okay. But I've had people hold on to pills like these for 20 years and they come in. I've had this one pillow, I got my chiropractor 20 years ago and I, I don't want to replace it, but I need to. I tried to use very clean material that's, that's non toxic. It doesn't have any dangerous chemicals in it and all my kids use it. My patients love it. And the nice thing about this is when you get most memory foam pillows home, you'll open them up and they'll off gas and so they'll smell for a couple of days. This pillow does not have the arsenic foam of different densities, does not have that problem. You can open up, sleep on that. So that same night, which we'll probably do, and no problems.

I love that you mentioned earlier that there's a link between or association between a lot of the chronic disease that's going on and poor sleep patterns, poor sleep cycles. Let's dive into that a little bit because over 60% of people in the United States have one or more chronic diseases going on. So tell me a little bit about the association. What do people need to know between what's going on during the day with a lot of their health challenges and what may be going on at night in terms of their sleep cycles?

So I really, I'm not a sleep scientist. You know, I have studied sleep quite a bit. But there are sleep scientists who I do rely on their research. And one of them is Matthew Walker. He has done some great compilation of some research. He says one of the biggest studies ever of 4 billion people. And twice a year we test and see what happens. And that's daylight saving time. Okay, so when we set the clocks for forward or lose an hour of sleep, we see a dramatic 20, 20% increase in heart attacks, in auto accidents, interesting chronic in problems, hospitalizations. And then the second half of the year, we see the opposite. With that extra hour of sleep, we see the reverse. The lowest incidence of heart attacks, of auto accidents, sleep deprivation issues. And so that really resonated with me to say, okay, there's something going on here with even just an hour of sleep deprivation, which can make a huge change and which does among the general population.

Yeah, that's fascinating for the people listening and watching, and they might be thinking, I know my sleep is suboptimal. They might not be in pain, but they know it could be better. What's maybe the first two or three things you'd recommend that they either look at, analyze what's the playbook to a better. To a better night's sleep?

Okay, so we already talked about diet and eating, right? That's a simple one that everyone can do. The second one, that again, another scientist has come across, Andrew Huberman, is his breathing techniques. So there's one called psychological breathing, and the other one's box breathing. So if you're familiar with box breathing or if you're not familiar with box breathing, essentially you think of a box and you can look at it along the wall of frame, and then you take a deep breath in for two seconds as you go up the side, you hold it for Two seconds as you go across the top, and then you breathe out for two seconds. Okay. And then at the bottom, you let it rest for two seconds.

Okay.

What this does is it resets that fight or flight, which at the end of the day, we're thinking of everything that happened. You know, we're thinking about what we have to do the next day about getting to sleep, which can be stressful. Right. But when we take our mind off that and off back onto our. Our breath work, it really centers us. And I found it really helps with my heart rate variability over time, which again, improves the quality of sleep I get, not just the quantity.

Yeah, that's fascinating. That makes a lot of sense to me. So with align a pillow, let's dive in a little bit specifically to align a pillow. There's a lot of pillows on the market we've highlighted. People have a hard decision, you know, making a decision as far as, hey, what's the best pillow? When they look towards align a pillow, what are some of the things that are unique? What are some things that people should be on the lookout for that are aspects that you've built into a line of pillow that people need to be aware of as they're searching for a new pillow, maybe locally in their marketplace? And maybe this is the first time they're hearing about a line of pillow.

Yeah. One of the most important is again, finding that optimal height of the pillow so that you're not kinking your neck at night.

Yep.

So that's one of the most important ones. We're not all created equally, so we have different sizes. So when it comes to finding the right size of pillow, again, a lot of it has to do not just with your size, but also your sleeping habits, the sleeping position as well as your bed. And your bed will wear as well over time. So even though you get a pillow one time that may fit over time, your bed may have some divots in it. Okay. Again, changing the size of the pillow that you want. So the pillow I created has four layers. You can make it higher or lower or softer or firmer by adding or removing those different density of layers in it. And what I find is some people will also keep those layers, and then later on they'll add or remove layers as well as their sleeping habits change or they get better sleep. So it's really important to find a pillow that, again, fits you perfectly.

Yep.

In fact, the first name we came out with was the Perfect Fit Pillow.

Okay.

And then we got a nice cease and desist letter from A company that we weren't copying their name, but they just didn't want us to use a similar name.

Okay.

My attorney says you can either fight this or not. So I do believe it's still the perfect fit pillow. Yeah. But we won't call it that. But this does do a really good job at keeping people in line as well. It's not going to lose a shape at night, so it's going to support your neck. It has two curves in it, one higher, one lower. And the reason is, again, all of our curves are not the same. And so some people have more of a curve in their neck, some people have less a curve in their neck. So this pillow offers you a couple of different options. And for people with no curve, you can even go on the flat side of the pillow and start there. And then as you're working with your chiropractor to improve the curve, you can flip it over and change it and use it as kind of an orthotic.

Interesting. So if I'm hearing it correctly, a lot of people out there have challenges deciding what height their pillow should be. But with align a pillow, they can make a single decision utilizing a line of pillow, and then they can kind of custom fit at home based upon the layers. Is that what I mean?

It's very versatile. And that's what most people like about the pillow is just being able to change it up when they get home and use it.

And sizes. Let's talk about sizes. So I love the fact that align a pillow enables the individual to build, I'm going to say the height to suit. Right. They can choose the layers and get it right where they want to be so that they can be as comfortable as possible and get the best night's sleep possible. But in terms of sizes, is it one size? Are there multiple sizes in terms of the width and length?

Yeah, good question. So when I first came out with this pillow, it's a queen size pillow. And in order to ship that pillow to Florida, it would cost me about $60 just to ship.

Wow.

So there's no way I was going to be able to charge enough for this pillow to make it worth its while. So the next question was, how do we make a queen size pillow fit into a shippable box? And that's where this manufacturer helped us out. So I don't know if you want to open it up right now, but we can open up the pillow.

Let's do it. Yeah, please.

Because most people think, oh, this is a very small box. It's Probably a smaller pillow. Even my strongman competitors who utilize this pillow say that it's just the right size for them. So I've never had anyone from. From petite women to strongman competitors have an issue with this pillow. So once you get it out again, it's going to kind of open up, and then we'll just kind of let it hear, and as we talk, it'll. It'll kind of take shape and do its thing. But it's big enough that I've had people say two people can use it. Now. I don't like sleeping close to myself, so I need my space. But we have a California king bed, so my wife has two of these anyways. So they're a good enough size to be big enough to be able to support as well as when you move around, but pretty convenient as well to ship and carry.

I can see this expanding now, and it is definitely a super healthy size. So the pillow is inside, and then this comes with a washable cover on the outside. Is that what I'm seeing here?

Yep. So use. Right now, we use a bamboo cover, so less allergen problems with allergens. But we're looking in to get a cooling cover. Actually, that's the next most requested thing that we've had from our consumers.

The bamboo cover looks awesome. But I really want to see. You talked about the layering and how people can really make this customized to what's best for them. Let's take a look.

Yeah. The biggest challenge was figuring out how to get a pillowcase that would be tight on a pillow that's adjustable. So part of this is a patented product. Part of our design is Velcro, so you can make it smaller or bigger as you're opening and closing it.

Great idea. I definitely have never seen that before, and it makes total sense as we open it up.

We're just going to take the layers out now.

Cool. So I noticed a few different colors here. Tell me a little bit about the different colors.

Again, one of the main things our users asked for was a cooling gel. So we do have a cooling gel and. But this is more of a comfort cooling gel. So this blue layer is softer. The white layer is a little more firm. So they're different densities. And so the color is more just to tell people there's different layers. They do different things.

Yeah.

Some people prefer all the blue layers, but for all the white, some people will say one or the other. So it's just another way of educating people about how to use the pillow.

Yeah. I can feel the difference on the layers just with the first touch. So everybody out there. I'm going to turn it this way because there's a contour here. How does that work? You know, I know I've seen contoured pillows before. I'm always like, I don't know which way is it supposed to go one way or the other? Is it personal preference? Which side's right side up? Talk a little bit about the contouring.

Yeah. One of my most watched videos is how to use a pillow. It's amazing that, you know, something as simple would be. This seems so difficult, but really, again, it comes back to the same answer. Whatever is more comfortable to you. So this is like the Swiss army knife of. Of pillows. You can use it however you like. When I'm on my side, sleeping on my side, I have broad shoulders, and I have a decent curve in my neck. So I like this higher side.

Okay.

When I go onto my back, I don't need as an aggressive curve. So I'll sleep on my back with my head here on lower. On lower layers.

Okay.

Some people will cut it in half. They'll use half of it for when they sleep on their side. They'll sleep on the other half when they're on their back.

All right.

I have two different pillows, and I'll actually switch them through the night if I move. And that's another thing people are wondering, well, you know, what if I move at night? This does actually do a pretty good job at cradling your neck so you don't feel like you have to move. But moving during sleep is actually a normal part of sleep.

Yep. Yeah, I follow you. So looking at the sidecut here, it looks like the bottom layer and the top layer are a little bit thicker than the two middle layers. Is there a specific order that they should be put in, or is it really built to suit?

Yeah, it's built to suit. Yeah. People use it all different ways. I wish I could say there was a rhyme and a reason I've used it different ways. But I really find that I. I really like finding people's creativity. Some people even just roll up a layer to be kind of more of a roll. Some people just like the one layer.

Yeah.

So everyone uses it differently. I have. I have quite a few people say their pets use it. Interesting. Have. They'll have another pillow for their. For some reason, cats love this pillow.

Okay. Feline, friendly.

However you want to use it is. Yeah, it's good to go. Now, again, we're talking about going to your chiropractor, misusing it.

Right.

But again, the chiropractor is not going to tell you you're using your pillow wrong. Hopefully. Hopefully. It's more of just like finding out what the problem is when it comes to sleep and finding what the most comfortable position is for you.

And you mentioned the different densities. I'll ask you just to describe that one more time. What's the difference between the white and the blue?

So there's a softer layer and a firmer layer. Okay. So really we're looking at, again, how much. How much weight is in each layer, the foam that they use. So one, some people. It's interesting, when we had this on Amazon, we had some people say the top layer is very, very firm. It's too firm. We had some people say the top layer is too soft, it's not firm. So what I've learned is that you've really got to try it out to see what works for you, that everyone's preferences are a little different, everyone's expectations are a little different. But I would say it is on the firmer side of pillows. But we tried to use a really soft layer on the top so it doesn't, like, feel like you're sleeping on a break.

One of the things that you mentioned earlier stimulates a thought with me now, which is around the daylight saving time, and how that can really affect people's quality of life. So I guess the magic question here is, is there a perfect amount of sleep or does it really depend upon the individual? And what's like the minimum? And then what's the maximum? From what you've learned and read a.

Generalization would be seven, seven, eight hours.

Okay.

And that's most common. The most common answer that you'll come across, it does depend on the person, on their chronotype, and it does depend on their age. Yep. So teenagers will typically want to sleep longer because they're growing and developing. As you get older, you'll sleep less. Some of that is due to discomfort as well, but usually that seven to eight hours in my testing has been optimal for me.

So there's a lot of people out there that the first thing they do when they think of purchasing a new pillow is they go on Amazon and see what's available there. Let's talk a little bit about why that might not be the best idea for many people out there and why, you know, as both of us being chiropractors, and with over 65,000 practicing chiropractors in the United States alone. Why going to a chiropractor might be a far better idea than hoping for the best on Amazon.

Yeah, it seems as benign as a pillow. You think that you wouldn't be able to misuse it. But we did sell this on Amazon for several years and we got Amazon's choice or for pillows, which was great because there's like 10,000 pillows on Amazon. So we were competing with a lot of pillows. We weren't the cheapest pillow, so that wasn't the reason. But usually it's because you have a low return rate, high customer satisfaction rate and plenty of inventory.

That's awesome.

And so the great part about that was this was kind of the Littman's test too. Like, okay, my patients like the pillow because they like me. How will this do? Kind of in the wild and it did really well. But one of the biggest things that we noticed, the constructive criticism, if you will, was the fact that people didn't know how to use this pillow. And I thought just by the looks of it, it's pretty obvious how to use it now. I did invent it, so maybe it was obvious to me. It's like as chiropractors we, you know, we wonder why people have an issue with their posture, right? Why don't they just stand up straight or whatever. But really it comes down to again, finding that right size, finding what's causing issues and then talking to your chiropractor about just sleep hygiene and spinal hygiene, which are very important, almost more important than the pillow. And people get a little, you know, nervous when I talk. But they love this pillow and there's people who swear by this pillow, they'll, they, they continue to use it. We've had some great testimonials about the pillow, life changing and, and they'll, they'll credit the pillow for fixing their disc problems or whatever. But really it comes down to being able to understand what's going on, how to improve your sleep and use this again as a supplement to proper and your best sleep.

Yeah, that makes sense to me. So for people listening and watching that maybe are going to go to a chiropractor for the first time or maybe they're going to go to their chiropractor. You'd recommend that they ask for a line of pillow to ensure that their chiropractor has access to be able to give them the best product available to help them have the best night's sleep, Is that correct?

Yeah. And we do have chiropractors all across the US that do sell this pillow. And if your chiropractor doesn't, tell them to hit me up and we'll hook them up and figure out how to get it into their clinic.

Fantastic. And for individuals out there listening and watching that might want to get in and purchase an Alina pillow, what's the easiest and best way to do so?

So we only sell two chiropractors right now, so you'll need to find a chiropractor to buy one from. I'm online and so I do sell my pillow and I am a chiropractor, so I'm licensed to sell it. But. But really it is about finding someone locally as well and building that relationship with someone who can help you. Because I can't help everyone who buys this pillow. And so it's important to find a.

Local chiropractor as well as a chiropractor myself. You know, I think I know a lot about sleep, but quite frankly, you've enlightened me to way more than I've ever been aware of in the past regarding how sleep can impact overall health and wellness. For the docs out there listening and watching that know that align a pillow shouldn't be a product that they have in their practice. But they're like, my knowledge of sleep might not be up to par. How can they find out how much they know? And ultimately how can they learn more?

Great question. So we do have a quiz for chiropractors to take. You can go to mysleepiq.com and take our quick quiz to test your sleep smarts. But I will tell you, Jeff, 10 years ago, we started learning about the glymphatic system. I went to school almost 20 years ago. We didn't even know about that. In fact, a lot of the sleep research that's coming out the last five, 10 years wasn't taught in school because we just didn't know it. So I would highly recommend all those docs go through just take the quiz and increase the knowledge about sleep because again, that's one of the most important things when it comes to helping people in pain heal. Because most of the healing happens when we're sleeping. Right. And so in order for our bodies to get in that state, we have to be able to sleep well in order to heal well. In order to heal well, we have to sleep well.

Yep, that makes a lot of sense to me. I'm going to encourage every doc listening and watching. Click down below. Take the sleep quiz yourself. On the video of this, I'll actually post my score down below and let's get some scores going. Let's compare and contrast because as you said, there's a lot that can be learned and there's a lot that's come out and I've been out of school almost the same amount of time as you, just about 20 years. And as you've said, the knowledge has grown by leaps and bounds. So even if you graduated five, 10 years ago, certainly if you graduated more than five to 10 years ago, I think it's a really good idea to catch let's catch up, get up to date, and ultimately get a good baseline of knowledge about sleep. So as you get the questions that we all do every day, all day with patients, what pillow should I buy? You can start asking better questions to help guide your patients to a better answer. Where can people connect with you to learn more, to follow you on social, to connect with you? To purchase a pillow? What's the easiest and best place for people to find you?

Dr. Michael Pound is the best way to find me. And you can look up Alina Sleep, which is the Alina Pillow company or Heal Better Fast as well. Those two are my two handles.

Awesome. Mike, I really appreciate you coming by and talking about sleep helping. Literally what will be Millions of individuals live healthier lives as a result of getting a better night's sleep. And it starts with understanding a lot of what we discussed today. So if you've been listening or watching and the conversation around sleep is new to you, I'm going to encourage you to rewind, take some notes, and then connect with Dr. Pound online so that you can continue to learn about how sleep plays such an integral role in your overall health and wellness. Mike, we're going to drop all of those links down below as well. So so if you'd like to connect with Dr. Pound, if you'd like to pick up and align a pillow for yourself and your family, please do so. Connect down below. Mike, thanks for coming out and chatting today.

Thank you.

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