Your Practice Isn't as Compliant as You Think — And It's Costing You

Having a compliance program is probably not the first thing you think about waking up and going into practice each and every day, but if you don't have a compliance program, it's like going into practice without malpractice insurance. You just would never do it. So here is an interview between Dr. Scott Munsterman, a partner over at ChiroArmor, and Val, one of their strategic partners, discussing some really important things. Some things that you're probably gonna learn about, some aha moments, and also some action steps that you can take to ensure that not only is your documentation dialed in,, but that you have a proper compliance program that keeps you dialed in and keeps you showing up each and every day with a ton of excitement being able to help people. Hope you enjoy this interview.

So my name is Valerie Crossen, and it's my pleasure today to introduce Dr. Scott Munsterman, an accomplished healthcare leader, compliance expert, and former legislator who has spent decades at the forefront of transforming care delivery. Today we're diving into one of the most frequently asked and often most challenging topics in healthcare. Compliance. For many providers and organizations, compliance is not just complex, it's time-consuming and constantly evolving. With ongoing regulatory changes, increasing documentation requirements, and heightened scrutiny across healthcare systems, staying current can feel overwhelming. Yet getting it right is critical, not only for avoiding risk, but for ensuring quality patient care and long-term operational success. That's why I'm especially excited to chat with Dr. Scott Munsterman. He's a nationally recognized expert in healthcare compliance and care delivery transformation. With decades of experience spanning clinical practice, healthcare leadership, and public policy, he brings a uniquely comprehensive perspective to this conversation. Dr. Munsterman is the founder and CEO of Best Practices Academy and co-founder of Clinic Armor, where he helps healthcare organizations navigate regulatory complexity and implement sustainable compliance strategies. He's also a certified professional compliance officer and recently completed Harvard Medical School's Program in Safety, Quality, Informatics, and Leadership. Dr. Munsterman, thank you for taking the time to chat with me today.

Oh, for sure.

So let's start with origin and background. What problem in everyday clinical practice led you to start ClinicRR, and when did you realize it was significant enough to build a company around?

Just simply have to look back the last several decades. I graduated or started practice actually in 1985. And so you could do the math on that one. And back when I started practice and was in practice for quite a while, we didn't even have HIPAA, you know. So you think about the regulatory pressures that are on the healthcare industry and businesses within healthcare. Doesn't matter if you're a small business or a big business either, because patient care is patient care regardless of volume or place. You know, that type of thing. So, yeah, it's just the complexity of the business environment has just gotten to that point where it's difficult, if even possible, for a busy provider seeing patients, taking care of patients all day long, to be able to keep their eye on the ball when it comes to what's required in the regulatory environment. So that's really how we originated. I mean, we, over the last, I've been involved in this type of industry in terms of consulting and compliance work for about the last 15 years. And so the experience that I've had and working with clients and again, seeing over decades how that complexity has just continued to build and build and build. You know, we've all heard about, you know, you throw a frog in the kettle and and you turn the heat up slowly, what can happen? You know, they don't jump out because they don't sense the change. Well, that's kind of what's happened, I think, to healthcare industry in general, and especially small businesses, smaller practices like the chiropractic practice and other types of independent practices. You know, they've just gotten or found themselves in a point where they're surrounded by complexity. They don't know what they don't know, which is a key element. And there's a lot of fear, you know, in taking steps forward and knowing exactly what to do. And so, that's, I guess, my long answer to your short question, Val. It really is just the complexity that we find ourselves in today.

And that's a fabulous analogy, the frog analogy, because it has snuck up on us, if you will. I mean, it has gotten— honestly, probably more complex than people even begin to realize. So for a busy provider, how would you explain ClinicArmor in a minute or less? What makes it different from a DIY compliance or hiring an attorney, for example?

Oh, well, uh, if you think about what we just talked about, that complexity that's involved, we take that and we make it simple. And we make it simple because we have the system in place to be able to handle that complexity. Uh, and how we go about that is very individualized for the practice. And so we take that off, off our clients' shoulders, that responsibility. I mean, and for the leadership of that, you know, and that's really the key part of it. We have the resources in place. We have this for breakfast every morning. And so we stay on top of things. And just with the system that we've developed, it puts our docs at ease because it is running silently in the background. And so our process literally puts them at ease. They, the most common thing we hear our docs say, our clients say, is that they can sleep at night. And so that's really key. And so, yeah.

Yeah, hard to put a price on that.

It is, it is. But it's really about the leadership, having the system in place, having the leadership that we provide that gets them through. And that's what they need. We love what we do because we help docs do what they want to do, literally. And I don't think any doc, at least when I started practice, I didn't get into practice to learn everything I needed to know about compliance. I was more about what do I need to know to get my patient better? You know, that, and that really is a driving force of why we got into practice is to help people.

And I would imagine that would take a load of time off their shoulders as well so they can do that. Exactly what they want, which is practice.

Exactly. Exactly.

So walk us through— yeah, so walk us through the core components. What's the first 90 days look like? What happens during the initial risk assessment? And what are the most common red flags you uncover?

Oh, for sure. So when we begin with the client, the very first thing we do is, is we do what we call a hot target analysis. And essentially, there are a number of key areas that we see as a target on, on every practice's back. So how they operate their financial policy, Do they use discounts? Are, you know, are they in the commercial payer business? Are they, you know, billing Medicare? And then how are they coding and how are they documenting? Those are key things. And are they documenting to the guidelines that need to be met? Informed consent. We see many times that there's inadequate either the informed consent form itself and also the process as to how informed consent is conducted within the practice. We review their CPT code utilization. To see if there's anything out of whack. We see what types of services that they perform and then how are they coding those services today? And is that accurate? When is the most recent security risk analysis that they performed? Because those have to be done every 2 years under HIPAA rules. And those are the types of things. And the list is longer than that, Val, but those are the things that are on our hot target list that we want. If we find problems in these particular areas, we want to fix them as fast as possible. And so we correct those because they are the, again, hot targets. The next thing then is that we move into the policy and procedure phase, and we set all of our clients up with an employment manual, and we walk them through that so that we tailor it to their practice, the way that they operate within their practice, meaning, you know, what do they provide for benefit structures? What are some of the basic rules, you know, that you want employees to to live by within your practice and how you want to operate. And then once that's finished, we move into the actual compliance program and what we call the compliance work plan, because it is a work in progress. And how I explain that to, to clients when we begin that process is that as we march through our compliance policy manual or that work plan, I mean, we are covering all of the aspects of Medicare, and then all of the federal and state regulations. We're looking at covering HIPAA, Privacy and Security Rule, and OSHA. And as we go through each and every one of those policies, it's like running a fine-tooth comb through your hair. We raised 5 daughters at home, and so my job on Sunday mornings before church was to brush all their hair and get them into a ponytail. Well, we had a few yips and hollers during the process of that. And when we hit a snag in the policy where it's like, okay, we're doing something wrong or whatever, we fix it, you know? And so, we're just able to work through that practice. By the time we get done with the policy and procedures, we've got a practice that is really fully compliant. And then it's all about keeping them compliant. And so out of that, uh, regulations and the policy that we have that meets those regulations, there are tasks or things that need to get done, jobs that need to get done, uh, and, uh, just based on the current status of the regulatory environment that we have now, that, that's like over 50 different things that need to be done in the practice throughout the year. Some of those things are once a month, some are once a year, some are a few times a year. Well, we've systematized that for the practice. And so what we've done, Val, like I mentioned earlier, is we've taken the complexity and we've wrapped our heads around it, our team has, and we've gotten to a point where we've developed a system that we march practices through, and then we're able to do the monitoring and auditing, the ongoing work with that practice to document their compliance to their policy. And it's done very easily. It's done with the doctor, but not where the doctor is doing all the work.

I see. Wow, that's fabulous. So you mentioned one of the top things on the hot target list was documentation. So where are practices actually most exposed today and what documentation mistakes create the biggest audit risk?

Yeah. So, so with Medicare guidelines and if we talk or give the example of, let's say, the chiropractic provider, a doctor of chiropractic, That's been laid out pretty succinctly, what is required on the initial visit, what's required on the subsequent visit. Now, this isn't just for Medicare, okay? And I lecture across the United States on this subject matter. And what I want providers and doctors to know is that when you document, you are documenting to be able to prove that you performed to a standard of care for which you are licensed to perform to. And a lot of docs don't think about it like that. They think about, oh, Medicare requires this, so I better put this in there. And oh, this is a cash patient, so I don't have to do that. Well, guess what? You know, you need to perform, you need to perform to your standard of care, which I'm not doubting that they do. But you need to have your documentation reflect that because that's the only way you can prove that you perform to the standard of care that's required for you to be licensed in your state. And the thing about that is that how do we know that we documented sufficiently to make that happen? Well, all of these requirements that Medicare has in terms of initial visit, documenting the history, past family medical social history, review of systems, documenting chief complaints, documenting your objective findings. Do you have a diagnosis? Do you have a treatment plan? What services are you performing? Do they meet the coding specification? So on and so forth. And so all of this is important, not only from a payer perspective, but then, you know, just being able to document that to bill, demonstrate you performed to the standard of care. And the common mistakes that we see are typically twofold. Number one is in the history portion of that initial visit. Many times docs don't spend the time that they need to, to document the mechanism or the history behind the patient's chronic problem. And so it lacks medical necessity right off the bat, you know, and so like none of those treatments get approved if, if there's a lack of medical necessity established in the beginning. The second part that we see the most problem with is in the procedure section where we don't document and to the specificity of the code that is needed, whether it's a manipulation code or maybe a therapeutic activity code, so on and so forth. And so those are really the two key areas. And then, you know, there's other, other areas that, you know, we can fall down on, certainly.

So what are the biggest misconceptions that providers have about compliance, especially around the EHR systems or HIPAA?

Well, it's funny you mention HIPAA because we do have the cybersecurity rule that is going to be which is currently proposed, but it's going to be finalized. It was, it was supposed to occur prior to this conversation. And, and it'll be happening sometime this year. Those cybersecurity rules, interestingly enough, lay out the difference between a certified EHR system and what they call a basic EHR system. You know, if we go way back to when EHR systems developed here, and that was through the incentive that the federal government gave to help providers, you know, purchase a certified EHR system. The whole idea behind that, by the way, was that they wanted all these systems to talk to each other, and that's why they wanted a certified, you know, system, and that these EHRs would maintain that. Well, in the chiropractic industry, unfortunately, the certification requirements, you know, they did them initially, and then they let their certification go. And so there's EHR systems out there that are not certified, in the chiropractic industry that have or may not be or are not meeting some of those cybersecurity requirements. And so that's why HIPAA, the OCR HHS in particular, has distinguished the difference between certified EHRs, ones that are currently certified in meeting a lot of the security measures that are required versus the basic ones where they may or may not meet them. And it's going to be incumbent upon the provider who is the covered entity of the patient records to make sure that they have those security measures met. Now, that's going to be a tall order because those providers will have to figure out a way— how do they know, you know, if those are met or not? And so that's, that's going to be a part of it. And so we have to be We have to go into this with our eyes wide open, if you will, Val, when it comes to the complexity of the compliance that surrounds even just, as you mentioned, the HIPAA side of it in EHR systems.

What percentage of health professionals do you think are fully in compliant with all the things you've been chatting about?

Oh, it's way less than 5%.

Oh my goodness. That's a very low number.

And let me, yeah, and let me reference that too, because it's not only the clients that come on board that we see that percentage. It's also when I'm out lecturing and I have conversations and I'm teaching. And how we teach or how, you know, our team teaches is that we begin our lectures with questions and answers and polling. And so, we get a really good feel for what what our audience knows and doesn't know about compliance. And so when I say 5%, I mean it.

Wow. Wow. That's— wow, that's interesting. All right. So do me a favor. Share an example of a clinic that came to you with an issue, and after working with you, and they had sort of a near-miss situation, what interventions— you know, just give me a story of an example of what we're talking about in real life.

Well, I could give you several, but I'll just be really quick. So we have clients that come on board that are— they know that they don't know what they don't know, if that makes sense. And I think that's really the first start of the whole thing is doctors, you know, admitting or reflecting like, you know what, I may not know what I don't know so that I should maybe check into this because it's probably more complex than I think it is or whatever. And so we have many of our clients come forward just because of that. And they've, they've got themselves in that, in that position. Some clients come forward because they're in trouble and they already had— not only was the target on their back, but they messed up. And now it's like, okay, well, I'm in trouble. How do— how can you help me? And, and I see now that I need to make changes. And so we have clients coming to us from those two avenues. And the third avenue or approach, interestingly enough, are those newer, younger doctors that have been in practice less than 5 years. We've had many that have come forward just like in their first year or two because they want to get it right from the get-go. And so what we found in those categories, though, to answer your question, is that we found a wide range of of things from practices that they thought that they didn't have to document patient care if it was a cash patient. I mean, not document at all, which that was a new one for me. It blew me away when, you know, and of course we've corrected that, obviously, you know, it was just MC.

It was just ignorance. I mean, that's not a great word, but it was just that they weren't, they really truly believed it was okay. It wasn't that they were malicious. They were just doing something something that they thought was okay. So ignorance is no excuse for the law, as they say, right?

Right, exactly. And there's like patient agreements, you know, that are pretty creative, that don't meet the standard of the law in the state that they practice in. So we've run into that a number of occasions. We've seen where practices have come to us and they have a group practice, but their biller told them and had it handled where they were billing everything through one doctor. And so it's things like that that many maybe that are hearing this are like, what in the world? You know, well, yeah, those are things that surprised us as well. In addition to even the things like, you know, the documentation, how they're documenting, you know, and not really having a good complete record like, you know, I spoke to earlier. So yeah, and but when we see those changes happen and that's why we created the hot target list that we did, is that we want to target these things. We know which things to ask right away and first and like, okay, that's a problem. We're fixing it. Here's why it's a problem and here's how we're going to move forward. And, you know, and so, yeah, That's all part of the process. But what we love is to be able to— and of course our clients as well— we find it, they understand it. You know, we always show our primary source verification. You know, here's where it says it in law. You can read it. It's just not our opinion. You know, now we need to fix it. Here's how we're going to do it. And then monitoring that in our clients over a period of months, you can just see the anxiety and fear go away. And they're just very comfortable and they're so grateful, you know, like, oh, you know, they're doing things the right way. And that's the key behind it.

So I imagine there's financial and operational impact that goes along with this as well, right? So you mentioned charting a lot. If they're coding properly, they might be undercoding, they might be overcoding. So there's impact both ways. What does the impact of improved compliance do to the revenue streams?

I'm glad you brought that up because What we see is that about 80% of the clients that come on board with us are undercoding in many aspects. Usually they undercode in their exam codes because simply because they don't know the new rules that came out like 5 years ago. They're operating under, you know, the way that it used to be 10, 20, you know, 30 years ago. And so that's really the key thing that we find a lot is that based on their documentation, we do a review and we teach them how they can code for their evaluation management. We see an uptick right away. Matter of fact, many times we just paid for our fee right there. Wow. Honestly, we have. And so about 80% of the time, that's what we see. The other thing that we see is that docs sometimes are fearful. You know, they don't want to bill for that 3-4 adjustment because they're scared, you know, that their documentation won't support it. Well, stop being scared and just get your documentation where it needs to be, you know, and that's our approach. It's like, no, well, we're going to teach you how to make sure you have it documented and we're going to audit that periodically, which we do with our clients to give them the peace of mind that, oh, I can go ahead and bill that code and I'm good because I have all my bases covered that need to be covered for that to be supported. And so we see those two things primarily. And then it's a matter of, like I mentioned earlier, when we do our hot target analysis, we look at the services that providers are providing and then what is the best code to be using for that that best describes the service. And that can be another area that, you know, can impact their reimbursability, you know, to make sure that they're coding correctly. But at the end of the day, compliance pays. It does. It pays. So, you're not only making sure your operational infrastructure is intact to keep you in business in this complex regulatory environment, it also, in our experience, at least that 80% of the time has had a financial lift for the practice because of the different variables that we just talked about.

And you mentioned chiropractic many times, but you work with all types of clinics, right? Medical, chiropractic, regenerative medicine, all of those.

Yes. Yes, we do. And I may reference chiropractic in many occasions, but we do— about half of our clients are small medical practices. Any of them. Yeah, many of them have started, you know, in a chiropractic beginning, if you will, and then multidisciplinary approach, you know, was, was led through that process and, and brought, you know, bringing on nurse practitioners or PAs or PTs in a wide range of folks that can give a much broader spectrum of services and especially in the regenerative medicine sector. And so, talk about a target on the back. Medical practices have a much bigger target. You know, there's more money involved typically with, you know, what they're doing, and especially with it being somewhat new. They're, I wouldn't maybe say they're the point on the spear, but they're darn close to the point on the spear with how we're seeing changes in our healthcare delivery system occur. Today. And I am so excited to work with practices like that.

Get them started right so that they don't step on the toes and take away those lovely services that they're offering to people that are so beneficial.

Exactly. And when I was in active practice, I'm still licensed to practice, but when I was in active practice, we had a multidisciplinary facility, a surgery center. And so we got to work with other types of provider types and bringing that around a patient, there's a lot of value in that. And so I'm personally invested in that for those small medical practices that are, you know, bringing themselves up and creating a, you know, a great service for patients.

Let's say that, you know, a practice has decided this makes sense and they start to work with you. What are some— what are the first few weeks implementation look like?

Like I mentioned previously, we do the hot target analysis that usually It takes a few visits to work through that, and depending on how many snags we run into with that. And then once we get through with that, and by the way, Val, probably more to answer your question, we work weekly with our clients to begin with. And that weekly basis is, it's an hour a week, and it can take anywhere from 6 to 12 weeks depending on on the practice and how many things are going on in the practice. And, you know, just there can just be a lot of different things with some of the clients that as they board, you know, get on board that we uncover or find or need to fix and talk through and research out for them or whatever. And so it takes about that long to get through Hot Target and the policy and procedures, about that 6 to 12 week time period. Once we hit that, Then we do a security risk analysis, which is required by HIPAA. And then we move into the monthly monitoring and auditing, which is— we've created that checklist of those over those 50 things that need to be done. I had earlier, we've systematized it to fall on certain months with checklist. And so every month we get together, it's about an hour of time out of the provider, and then we walk through and we check those things off the list. We document this, that, the other thing. And then we talk about any other things that are going on within the practice. And then we typically put in 2 to 3 hours a month with our clients in, you know, whether it's, you know, in one hour for sure, monitoring and auditing. But there's just other things that go on with the practice or maybe we're doing some follow-up, you know, with them, but we lead them through that process. And I'll just say this, the monitoring and auditing that monthly part is the crux of the compliance program because we're actually doing it. You know, it's not just a policy manual on the shelf that says you're going to do all these things and then you don't do it.

Right.

Some people think that's just as bad as not having a policy manual. And Andy Worre, you kind of, you know, you have to look at it in a certain light along those lines. But that is the crux of the program is actually doing the policy.

So, it keeps it from becoming overwhelming and then it embeds it into their culture. So, it just becomes part of what they do.

And you said it, that's the key. I mean, that's our secret. There's a secret sauce here and it's baking it into the culture. If you have everybody, including yourself, doing the right things all the time, and that's just how you do it, then there's nothing to worry about, right? You know, I mean, it's just a natural thing. Well, it's just the way we do it. Well, it's the right way to do it. Great. You know, you don't have to worry about doing things the wrong way. And that's why we run that fine-tooth comb over these practices to get the wrong things out of the system and get the right things in place. And then it takes time to reinforce. And that's where the monitoring and auditing comes in. We're checking, did we check this? Oh yeah, we did. Or yep, I got that in the system. Or no, I forgot about that. All right, let's get back on it. You know, so these are all things that we, you know, in terms of our system works. To make sure that we maintain that level of compliance.

Okay, let's go to the other side of the coin. We were just talking about the practitioner that says, okay, I think I need this. Now what about the practitioner that says, I don't think I need it, I've never had a problem before?

If that's their mentality and they want to go in that direction, that's up to them. They can take that risk on. Yeah, I'm not going to worry about practices and providers that turn, turn a blind eye, you know, I mean, I can't help them, you know. And, and so it's all about awareness, you know, and, and understanding that maybe you don't know everything and that you want to find out what you don't know and, and that you maybe know enough to know that you may not know everything there is. And that's, that's how I hope my colleagues, medical and chiropractic, will arrive at, if they haven't already, is a point where it's like, you know what, at least I need to take a step forward and have a short call with, you know, Clinic Armor and say, okay, you know, what am I, what's my exposure here? You know, I mean, and to go about it intelligently, I guess, is what I hope for. But I can't help the folks that don't want to be helped. It's kind of like patient care. We can't help a patient if they don't want to be helped.

Right. So where should a practice start if they say, okay, I think I'm ready. What's the next step?

Next step is just get a schedule, you know, with us and we get a contract out. We decide on a level of service that they would like. We have, by the way, 3 different levels of service. We have an Essential package, which is more of a do-it-by-yourself package. The next level is more enhanced where we actually work with clients through the policy phase, help them understand how to do the monitoring and auditing. And then we just meet with them like on a quarterly basis to check on them. And so they're— they have much more— they have their responsibility being their own compliance officer. By the way, in the Essential package and Enhanced package, the vast majority of our clients, probably 90% plus, do our package that we actually provide the full service for, and that's our Elite package. And that's where we are your compliance officer. We provide the leadership, we work with you all through the process, and we take that responsibility off your shoulders. Now, you're still, you know, working with us, obviously, but it allows our clients that are in that Elite package with us as their compliance officer to be able to truly focus on their business, growing their business and taking good care of patients.

And I would imagine that Hot Target Analysis, which is complimentary, gives them a really good idea of where they stand so then they can better make that decision of which package to choose. You know, if they're in great compliance, then they could do one of the smaller two. But if they're a little bit about a whack, maybe they want to start. And then how long is that commitment?

Uh, we have a 3-year contract, and the reason that we have 3 years, as you can imagine, Val, we have a lot of work on the front end that we put in with our team and our policies and setup and systems and, you know, and working with clients. But we were able to spread or get that cost down, that monthly cost down to where it's at by having a 3-year agreement. Now, we allow our clients, if they start out with us for the first year as their compliance officer. And then they look at like, you know what, I think I can take some of this on now. I, you know, had some changes or whatever in the practice and, and, you know, I can take on more responsibility.

Great.

We can move you to another level, you know, within that, that contract period. So we're very flexible with our, with our clients along those lines.

So the only thing we haven't talked about is the future. Where is it going? You mentioned cybersecurity changes. How many more things did that add to the list? You said there was 50 on the list. How many more things per year are going to be done with this new cybersecurity stuff?

It's over a dozen more new things. Yeah. Okay. It depends. It really is going to depend on, I mean, that's under the proposed rule and our compliance team worked around the clock the last 6 months, literally hundreds of hours put into getting policy and procedures and systems ready based on what the proposed rule says. I mean, it was a heavy lift. And I'm really proud of my team and we're ready. So having said that, HHS is going to have to decide if they're going to implement the whole boatload of changes or if they're going to phase it in or whatever. And that's yet to be seen. But, but we're ready for it either way. But yes, it's— it adds more into our monitoring and auditing phase. We've got a number of policies in HIPAA Security Rule that are getting, they're getting increased or more complex in current rules, but then they're adding, you know, like 7 or 8 new rules on top of that. So just a lot is that—

Cooking the frog thing again.

Yeah.

Right. And you said something that struck me. You said your team, you're so proud of your team and the heavy lift and the work it took. Your years and years of experience in this industry and you have a team and it was a hard job for you guys to pull it together. I'm thinking about a practice that doesn't even understand it, how in the world can they be compliant? Which is where that 5% comes from. So what's at stake if a practice continues to delay addressing it? What if, what if, heaven forbid, the audit happens? What are the first few steps of an audit and what does that usually look like?

Well, it depends what kind of audit you're talking about.

Oh, okay. How many regulatory boards are there that can audit you?

Well, you, I mean, you could be under, uh, review by OSHA, you could be under review you know, by the OCR on the HIPAA side of it. Certainly any payer, whether it's a commercial payer or Medicare, you know, federal, state, or within the state, they can ask for records and review documentation and see if it meets, you know, compliance in that manner. Your state boards, you know, if patients file complaints, they're looking into your system and they want to know, you know, what's going on and looking at your documentation. So there's a number, you know, when we talk about compliance and the complexity, I mean, there's way more. And of course, you've heard me say the word targets, but there is, it's just a target-rich environment overall. And I'm not saying that to scare anybody, you know, because we figured out how to help that and address that. It is what it is. And so it's all about how do you move forward and make sure you have the operational infrastructure in order to have your practice protected, have you protected, your practice protected, your patients protected, because that's a big part of this as well.

Well, it sounds to me like this program is a must for most practices because they're out of their league, for lack of a better phrase. It pays for itself, it sounds like, as well with the things you discover and can fix and drive more revenue into the practice. I personally can't see why somebody wouldn't do it, at least the Hot Target to see where they stand. So, I mean, it just seems like a fabulous system. I can see why you and your partners created this. It makes a ton of sense to me. Is there any last thoughts that you would like to give to young men, you know, young practices, existing practices? And what's your last thoughts on this topic?

Number one, I mean, this is so— what we're doing, the work we're doing, you can tell I've got a passion for it. That, and I share that amongst my partners in our team that we have built here, that we want chiropractic systems, we want the, like we talked about the small medical practices and the work they're doing and in the scope of services that they provide, we want to support those independent practices and provide this piece of infrastructure so that so that it will put an armor around them. We want them to be shielded. We want them to be protected within their practice so they can continue doing the good work they do. So if you're, you know, in a solo doc, you know, starting out, or whether you have got, you know, 12 providers in your practice, I mean, some of our clients, we have over— we have one client that was like 25 providers, you know, from small to large, you know, it that it's really the same. It's protecting and it's making sure that, that we maintain compliance, you know, throughout that. And it's just an operational infrastructure that's needed today. It wasn't needed when I started Practice Well in 1985. It wasn't, you know, I mean, there just wasn't— it wasn't a target-rich environment back then. But boy, have things changed 40 years later.

And I imagine with all the new regenerative medicine that's emerging, it's got to be even more target-rich.

Yeah, because then you have the FDA involvement and a number of other agencies that can audit or review, you know, or become under the auspices of. So, yes.

Well, thank you so much. This has been a very insightful meeting. I really appreciate your expertise and sharing, shedding some light, if you will, on this very challenging subject. So Dr. Munsterman, thank you so much for your time today.

Oh, you're welcome. Thank you, Belle.

Been a pleasure.

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