You're Selling Your $4,500 Program Wrong | Dr. Grant Elliott of @rehabfix

For a lot of the brick-and-mortar docs we help, we're getting them like a 1 to 6, 1 to 7 return. And that's after work. That's after formulating a lot of time on what's your audience, what's the messaging, what's the mechanism? Okay, now we're gonna write ads specific to that. But once we get to that point and we have predictable new patients and predictable return, now we can crank that up. How many new patients do you want a week?

So sales critical component. We're gonna do a deep dive on sales, marketing, ads, funnels, et cetera. So you were just talking about sales being so critical. We all know the term sales cures all ills, and it is true in a business sense to a certain degree. Sales process that you're currently using, what have you seen that works best out in the market today, specifically related to your online-based programmes?

Okay, online programme, this is crucial. This alone is worth, oh my gosh, $50,000 to the right person that's listening. Whenever we meet with an online coach or a chiro or PT and they're trying to go online, they're treating it the same way as an old school brick and mortar sales process, meaning they're doing an eval, they're producing their findings, and they're trying to sell. Not enough value. No. So with the online world, you need some degree of commitment prior to the sales call. And the sales call is not a sales call. The sales call is an assessment where you actually produce a result. Yeah. So there's 2 main funnels that we run for our online docs. First one puts everyone to starting— sorry, to booking a free call through DMs. So you're posting good content, email newsletters, whatever. The call to action is schedule a free call, schedule a free call. They book a free 20-minute discovery call. And we have very specific framework for this. It's not just, oh, get on the phone and chat. No, one over Zoom. Get the person's attention. Do not do phone. Don't sell over phone. Sell on Zoom if you're online. Get— force their attention. There's a specific framework of the discovery call. To make it super general, it's build rapport, find a personal connection, find something to connect on. Okay, what's your story? Pain pulling, pain pulling, pain pulling. What's the goal? My goal is this. Based on your pain points, we've seen this all the time, we can help you achieve X goal. Here's what we're going to do. Don't suggest the next step, tell them the next step. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to schedule a 1-hour assessment. We're going to take you through a full evaluation. We're actually going to do exercises with you on this call to get you results on this call so that by the end of it, you know what the problem is and how to fix it. It's only $97. Sound good? They say, yep. Great. Book them right then and there, collect their card, collect the $97 right then and there. Now they book the 1 hour. As soon as they book the 1 hour, they're sent automated intake forms. Intake forms need to contain intent-building questions. So questions like, how long have you been in pain? What is this holding you back from doing? How long has it been since you've been able to do that? What does your dream life look like when we fix this pain? When we fix this pain, speaking into existence, making it sound like it's coming. The majority of our clients who achieve that are willing to commit to a 3 to 6 month program. Are you? Get their mind in commitment state. Hey, the goal of this is to help you save $5,000 to $10,000 on injections and surgery. If there was an alternative to that that was only a few thousand so you could avoid all of that, would that be worth it? Yes or no? Tell me why. These types of questions help get them in the mindset of, okay, I'm not just showing up for a 1-hour call to figure out what's going on. No, this is just a step to the full solution. They show up on the 1-hour call and there's other nurture sequences you should be selling or sending testimonials you should be sending. There's more to it.

Yep.

They show up for the assessment call and it's just value, value, value, value, value. We spend as much time as necessary to get them the biggest result in that visit so that they're saying, I can't believe this. I never felt this much relief in anything I've done in person.

Great.

We're set up to sell. We show them how the program works, how this is designed specifically for them, and how the results they just achieved will continue if they sign up. We handle objections and we close.

So do you go through on that follow-up call? Is it an assumptive sale and an assumptive close?

Well, I would say that depends on the verbiage, that depends on the language up until that point. So, I mean, yeah, you're talking like they're in, like you're just But of course, if they start going, well, can I have a day to think about it? Or, okay, can you send me an email somewhere and I'll get back to you? No, we're not playing that game. No, we're figuring out, okay, well, I'm just curious, what's that number one thing you feel there is to think about? Or, okay, I see. Well, we don't really normally have an email PDF like that. I guess I'm curious, what were you looking for on that? And that's giving you the reason why they're not making a decision and you help them make a decision.

In my mind, one of the most important things is objective management that you just touched on. So let's live there a little bit. What are some of the key tips, strategies, success opportunities that you'd highlight? Because many docs, that's where they struggle, right? As soon as there's any pushback, they're like, okay, I'll wait. How do you recommend docs handle that?

Well, that's, I mean, the answer to that is sales training. Absolute sales training. You can't be afraid to, and it's not even confront, it's just help them overcome the obstacle that they're perceiving to be an obstacle, but really isn't.

Yeah.

Like, sales is change. Sales is change. And some people are afraid to change. Some people are more comfortable with a certain discomfort in my position than an uncertain outcome.

Yep.

And they're perceiving an obstacle, whether that's money, whether that's perceived risk, whether that's a conversation with their spouse, whether that's their travel schedule. People come up with all kinds of excuses to not invest in their health. We all know this. And you're helping them remove that obstacle to achieve the life outcome that they came to you for.

Yep.

That's ultimately it. And then the manner in which you do that is, of course, then very specific based on the objection itself. And oh my gosh, we have a library of tons of sales, live sales recordings that I've conducted closing $6,000 to $10,000 deals. And we've broken down every single objection we've ever received at every stage of our sales process that has actually been recorded that I then have a training on. And we help docs literally dial in every single thing that comes their way. And it is so much fun to see them go, I used what we went over last week and I just closed another deal. Oh my gosh, I used what we did, you know, last time and I closed 3 more new patients this week. And now they're getting more people better and they're making more money.

Yeah, it sounds like we— I always call objective management in the businesses I'm in, we call it turning over the rock, asking questions. I noticed you simulated a few questions there. How important is asking questions in that process?

That is sales. So the worst way someone can sell is by trying to tell them the way that they should think. Worst thing. Defenses immediately go up. If you can ask the right questions to help them come to the conclusion themselves, Now you're going to close them. Asking the right questions is everything.

Super critical. Yeah. So let's go. I'm going to go from sales all the way back to marketing at the super beginning. So when you think about marketing, and I'll tie this specifically to online-based, hybrid-based rehab programs, when you think about marketing and building an audience, getting attention in today's ecosystem, what comes to mind for you? What are some of the most impactful things of a doc saying myself, man, I'm ready to launch something. I need to get it out to the universe. I'm going to start posting on social media, where should they start?

Yeah, so first identify your target audience, 'cause all of your message needs to be around the target audience. So let's say you're like, I'm really good with knee pain 'cause I'm passionate about running, I'm passionate about doing whatever training that involves your knees, and okay, I'm gonna be a knee doc. Great. Okay, so once you identify your target audience, now you can get really specific on the pain points within that audience. And then when you go to make media, All of your hooks should be super specific to those exact pain points. So if you're tired of having knee pain when you run and you get past that first mile, here are 3 things you can do right now to get it to mile 3 or, you know, whatever. That's not amazing, but you get the concept.

Yeah.

So audience, know the pain points in that audience, make an effective hook around that pain point in that audience, then have super high value-driven steps they can take. Not just sitting at your table, looking at the camera, making suggestions. Like show them what to do, give them action steps. So tons of value in the body. And then here's really effective for the call to actions is think about what would the mistake be for the viewer? This is good for you. What would the mistake be for the viewer who just watched that to make and address that? So what I mean is, here's a few examples. That's going to help you reduce your pain fast. But if you're tired of guessing on your own, Then if you message me the word pain, we can get you a free demo with my team. Okay, so if you're tired of guessing on your own, that's what a lot of people are gonna go do. Here's another mistake. So this will reduce your pain fast. If you're tired of saving tons of random videos just to never actually use them, then just message me the word pain and you can get a free demo with my team. The number of people that do that action, that go, oh, this is a really good video, I'm gonna save it, and then never go back to it later and they stay stuck in pain, it's a huge percentage of people.

Right.

So that speaks directly to the action, the mistake that they're about to make, and you help them realize, wait, that was going to be a mistake. He's telling me I shouldn't do that and I should do something else. So maybe for your docs who are on your list that want, and maybe you're already doing this, Mm-hmm. but you're like, they need me writing their emails for them. Like, I need to write emails for these docs. What are they doing? Figure out, okay, I have an email letter or I have a video or whatever. What's the mistake that they would make that they don't realize it's a mistake? And then call out, hey, that action you're about to do, you're about to do this thing 'cause you're getting to the end of this email. Don't do that thing. You need to do this instead and you'll get the outcome you're after.

Yeah, I love that tip. So content production, are most docs putting this out? Do I put a call to action in every post, every third post? And paid versus organic, how much should I spend versus not spending? How's that all? How's that frame out to you?

Depends on where the business is at. So if we work with someone who's already built a very large audience, we don't really need to spend anything. We just need to juice their audience. If someone's starting from scratch, which we help a lot of people do, both with brick and mortar and with online, then if you want to get a lot of leads into your office or online, then we're going to have to run paid advertising. And there's methods to get financing for that and whatever. So the percentage, Depends on the offer, depends on the business size. So like for me, I'm super organic on my B2C offer. My B2B offer, I'm super paid.

Right.

There is like skepticism on this of, well, don't do it too much or don't do it too little or whatever. Here's all the noise that I've sifted through because I've been posting every day since 2018. I've been posting 3 times a day for the last year and a half. Here's my experience. If it's a high-value post, you should have a CTA on every single high-value piece of content because it gives you the right to.

Yep.

Like, if I'm giving you gold, I'm gonna ask for something. If I'm giving you like bronze, I'm probably not gonna ask for something if I'm giving you something of lower value. So if you have different tiers of content, if you're like, hey, I can produce way more of this lower-value stuff, You know, but it's not gonna get a lot of conversion, I'm probably not gonna put a bunch of CTAs on that. If I have really high-value stuff that took me a lot of effort to put together, every single one of those I'm doing CTA. So here's an example. Sometimes reaction videos get a bunch of views. Like, you see a chiro in a third-world country doing something crazy, you do like a stitch to that or reaction, that's gonna get a lot of views, but there's no value in that.

Right.

I'm not doing a CTA on that. If I have a minute and a half short-form video that I'm saying, here's how to fix sciatica in 1 minute, I'm doing a CT on every single one of those.

Yep, yep, makes sense. What are you seeing in the paid ad world right now? A lot of docs out there probably feel like they've spent more for less over the last few years, and they might be even unsure, like, how much is the minimum I should be spending per day versus the package value that I'm selling? So that's a couple questions there, but how would you unpack some of that?

Yeah, so A good goal, let's say basic ROI, basic ROAS, I'd want to get at least 1 to 3 or more. So let's just pretend you're spending $1,000 in a month, but that $1,000 is at least getting you $3K after expenses and whatever. Okay, you're at 1 to 3, that's fine, that's scalable. I'm cool with that. So that's the metric there, but then it depends on what the goal is for that doc.

Yeah.

So For a lot of the brick-and-mortar docs we help, we're getting them like a 1 to 6, 1 to 7 return. Not all the time, but that's where a lot of our docs are at. That's great.

Yep.

So now it comes down to, okay, and that's after work, that's after formulating a lot of time on what's your audience, what's the messaging, what's the mechanism? Okay, now we're gonna write ads specific to that. We're gonna edit it. Now we're gonna build the funnel for you. Now we're gonna sales train you. We're gonna set up your automations and your workflows. It's a lot of work to get to that point. But once we get to that point and we have predictable new patients and predictable return, now it's, all right, are you a one-man show? If the answer is yes, okay, you can only handle 4 to 5 new patients a week if you're using our hybrid process. If you're not using our hybrid process, you can't even handle that much.

Right.

So now how long is it going to take for us to hire an associate so then we can outsource fulfillment? Okay, now we can crank that up. How many new patients do you want a week? Now we can effectively produce that.

Yeah. When somebody— you mentioned dropping a word down below as a CTA and then follow up from there. Let's go into some detail on that process. So, you know, drop the word knee below to get my, you know, 3 ways to eliminate knee pain without a surgery, right? Whatever that case may be. What follow-up happens from there?

So a lot of people have heard of ManyChat. ManyChat's great, but automated follow-up sequences are integrated into GoHighLevel, and GoHighLevel does way more than ManyChat from a system standpoint. So I would just recommend building everything to GoHighLevel because you can have all of it in one place. So in GoHighLevel, you can create a comment response trigger.

Okay.

And you can make it for all of your posts or for specific posts. You go in there, you program, trigger word is knee. Now you can tell it to reply to the comment for you, which we do. So our Instagram, our Facebook will automatically reply for you. Hey, check your DMs, just sent the guide over.

So it makes a comment and shoots a DM?

Yes, comment and DM. So then they get the response because some people it lands in their unread, it lands in their spam, and they're like, hey, I never got it. So automatically reply, send it to you, go check. So they go, oh, I should go check now. So now they check, automatically sends them the guide, waits around 10, 15 seconds, automatically sends another message that says, hey, just sent it above. Let me know if you have any issues going through that. It waits around 2 to 3 hours, sends another message. Hey, so what did you think? If they reply, and we have AI that's now integrated into the message responses, so if they respond with something like, was super helpful, thank you, or if they reply with, I haven't read it yet, it will read the intent of those messages. If it's like, yeah, it was awesome, thanks for sending, then it will automatically handle a conversation that's like, Okay, great. How long have you been dealing with this knee pain? What is it impacting? Are you noticing these symptoms? Well, we work with this a lot. If you'd like, I could just send you over a link and we could schedule a free 15-minute call to talk further and see if we can develop the right plan for you. Yes, sounds great. Sweet. Here's a booking link. Now you just scheduled a discovery call and all that can be automated. If they respond to the guide with something that's like, no, haven't gone through yet or whatever, Well, then you could go, no problem. Sounds like you're busy. Maybe it would be more efficient for me to get you the direct answers here. How long has this been going on? What is it affecting? You go into the same framework, book them for a discovery call.

Cool. Does all of that live within DMs or do you go to email or phone?

That context is DM. We push— you can push a phone discovery call for a brick and mortar. That's easy. You don't need to do Zoom. For discovery call, brick and mortar. Discovery call online, Zoom for sure. Email, we have an automated email confirmation system for all of our calls overseas.

Okay.

So let's say a call's coming up in 24 hours. It says, hey, just making sure you can make that appointment. Go ahead and reply to this email this and we'll keep you on. Couple hours go by, we don't hear back, sends it again. Couple hours go by, we don't hear back. Hey, final notice, we're about to take you off the calendar. If they don't respond, then we remove 'em. But we don't have flows 'cause it's primarily through social media. So we handle most of that through that, but we don't have any automated convos through email to that capacity.

Got it, yeah. Email is appointment reminders basically.

Yeah.

And so from a content perspective, I'm not exactly sure even how to ask this question, but how many views, impressions, followers, like how big of an audience size do I need to start seeing people comment and take action and become a lead, if that makes sense?

Yeah, I'd probably say a few thousand.

Got it.

A few thousand, assuming a chunk of those are people who found you because of the offer you provide. It's not just 3,000 like friends from high school.

Right, right.

You know? But I'll probably say once you're like, hey, I'm saying comment the word, message me the word, and nobody's doing that from organic sense, you probably need at least a few thousand to start seeing that. But if you're running ads and your ad says, Drop the word or message me the word and you'll get blank. Well, then you can start getting them immediately. Yeah, but you need an effective ad to increase that conversion and then you need an effective sales process so you're not spending without collecting and then you're like, ads don't work for me. They work. They just— you need a better structure.

Yep. You talked about VSLs, video sales letters, how that ties into a website. So let's, let's kind of piece that together. So we have the components of comment down below. We have DMs going there. to book that discovery call on a website? What's the importance of a video sales letter? What are docs getting wrong and what's working today?

Yeah, so I think a VSL on a website is super effective. Think about it this way. Most docs are like, hey, if I could get a patient in front of me, I can sell them, I can help them. Okay, great. What's the closest you can get to getting a patient in front of you if they're not there in front of you? Get a video of you talking to them, right? So if they go to your website and a video of you talking immediately starts auto-playing and the hook of the video addresses their exact pain point, then they're going to likely continue listening. Now you're having the opportunity to connect with them on their pain point. Explain to them, hey, you've tried this, this, this, and you're still in pain because it's not giving you this, this, this. But with our process, We provide you this, this, this, and here's how fast you can get the result. And now it's here's how you can achieve it. Now you just sold them without having to be in the same room, and now you're getting them on your calendar. I think it's super important. And so many docs, oh my gosh, we do website audits and you'll go to their website and their banner photo will be of a mountain landscape. Wellness awaits you. Oh my gosh. And it's like website audit 101. Go to your website, remove all the words. What do you think it sells? Do that with your own website. And if you're not sure what your website sells, if you remove all the words, then you need to change the images or the videos that are there because it should be able to sell or at least display what it is you fix without any words. It needs to be that clear messaging.

Yeah, well said. Video sales letter, you generally recommend like attention, desire, interest, action type format, just a broad-based overview on a video sales letter.

If it's for a brick-and-mortar website, we shortcut a lot of that because you don't want a 4 to 6 minute, too in-depth VSL for like a website homepage. You want like a minute, minute and a half VSL. So it's much shorter. Like truly, it's like if you're still struggling with insert pain point or multiple pain points that you see the most, it's because what you're typically getting in, in chiro PT offices around this area is This is this insert generic treatment. You're getting e-stim, you're getting generic cookie cutter exercises, or you're just getting adjustments and nothing else. The reason why that's not working is because of XYZ. And with our X system, with our X method, what we will provide you is fill in the missing piece, fill in the missing piece, fill in the missing piece. And typically this results in patients seeing X amount of improvement in this amount of time. So if you want to see if this will work for you, click the button below to book a free consultation.

Yeah. Pulling back to the ads, in the ad world, what are you seeing right now? Do you recommend running really only video ads? Is there any place for carousels, static post ads? What are you seeing?

Carousel ads and static post ads, the best utility for those are just mixing up the distribution. So here's— someone said this to me and it really connected. Think about ads like a buffet. People go to buffets because they like variety and they're gonna be walking through an aisle and they might see some food that they're like, meh. And then they might see some food they're like, Yeah, I'll take that. Well, that's like ads. People are going to have different psychology and different pain points based on what they're thinking. So what carousels and static images can help with is just getting more variety up that someone might jump on. Videos are winning like average to average. Videos are always winning for sure. And that's the issue with a lot of these generic ad agencies that aren't ran by Kairos who did it the right way is it's these, hey, 100% of our clients, they get the same static image ad. It's the $47 new patient special, and we're just going to cross our fingers, everybody. Oh my gosh. So if you have an effective video written with effective editing, you can repurpose that for years.

When somebody is shooting a video, can they shoot with an iPhone? And how important is the editing versus not? How's that all work?

Yeah. So if you have a really unique hook, and really unique value, you don't need a lot of editing. If, you know, I'm not saying it's bad to have both, obviously, and you can for sure shoot from your iPhone. Like, we have a bunch of clients who are making great money who are just shooting from their iPhone. These things are bonuses. I would say an iPhone with really good lighting and good storytelling will beat bad lighting, amazing camera, medium-grade storytelling any day.

Yep.

So like, good lighting, good storytelling is important. There's a few accounts out there where every sentence is shot from a different angle and the character will be walking to and out of every scene. And because it just hooks the attention so well, they're doing iPhone, zero lighting. Just the way in which they shoot it is so good that they're going viral over and over and over again.

Yep. When somebody's posting, yeah, pattern interrupt works for sure. When somebody's posting, let's say organically, let's not even say in the paid space, they're just posting organically with a CTA. How important are hashtags and trying to get extra reach that way at this point?

Yeah, well, Instagram has told us the answer to that by reducing the number of hashtags you can put. It's not that important. They're basically forcing you to use less. And it's no, no. There used to be this whole strategy, like when I was starting in 2018, 2019, there were post boosting groups, there were hashtag hackers, there were like all these things. And all of those are basically gone because they just, they don't do anything anymore. Can hashtags be helpful? Maybe a little, but it's all based on algorithm and interest now. And if people are commenting, if people are engaging, that's what's going to push it, not a particular hashtag. So like hashtag what's relevant to you. Like you can only do 5 hashtags now. So we just do low back pain, low back pain relief, back pain, disc herniation, sciatica. Those are the 5 we do on every post.

Yeah.

Because it's just in our field. But like, We're not banking on that.

Right, right, right. Let's talk sales again a little bit. So docs that are getting at-bats but not able to get patients to yes, what's the number one thing that you would say or tip you'd recommend?

Oh, so if you're doing online sales, you can get recordings of those, right? If you're doing in-person sales, I mean, sometimes you need to throw your phone on record in your pocket and you need to be able to dissect it afterwards. Like, you need some form of audit on yourself and you need sales training. Like, you cannot get enough sales training. Like, I made 8 figures doing sales and I still do sales training. It is incredibly important. So knowing the effectiveness of that for your office and knowing that sales is literally everything, like, if you don't close a deal, you don't make money. Like, what is the number one revenue generating task? Taking someone's money. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Getting revenue.

Literally. Yeah, yeah. So knowing the importance of that, having an effective sales training program to go through, one that's niche-specific, that's what we do. And not just in general, you know, a sales training program is huge and can do absolute wonders. And knowing the psychology of it and how to say things certain ways. Remember, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Yeah, I mean, how to say yes. Going beyond that, I would have to know, well, what's the objection? And then I could give someone a framework for that exact objection, which is a bunch of fun. What I would say is if there's someone who's like really struggling, it's record the conversation. Let's dissect the conversation. That could be more impactful than anything else. And then going over, well, here's where you went wrong. Here's the objection you were able to overcome. So now we're going to roleplay that objection with the right framework, drill it down. Great. You have it now. Next time that comes across, you know exactly how to handle it. And you just do that over and over and over for every objection you get stuck on. And then now you've been drilled on the right pattern for every objection, and now there's literally nothing that's going to be thrown at you that you're not prepared for.

That's a great tip. With content production, docs, I'm adding a hybrid online program into my brick-and-mortar practice, let's say. Am I focusing my ads and my reach still to my circle of practice? Am I going full country? Am I going international? How's that work?

Well, you can do both. Our recommendation is, well, what's the goal?

What's the focus?

Because you do not, like, the worst thing you can do as a coach and also as a business owner is like, I wanna do all these things at once. Bad idea. Like, you should start making $1 million doing one thing before you think about doing anything else. So if they have a brick and mortar, they want the brick and mortar to make more money, and we're helping them progress and use hybrid components, we're focusing on your community first.

Yep.

Master that, scale that, at least get you making a million a year. And then now if you're like, hey, I have way more free time, I have these online programs, I'd like to sell them internationally or nationally. Okay, sweet, we can do that now. Or here's a good one. Are you the type of office where someone's driving an hour to get to you or they can only come to you once a month because there's schedule limitations, whatever, and you're struggling to both help them But also monetize that because you're only getting paid for your time. Well, if you have an online program, now those limitations and those barriers are gone. So that patient that's an hour away, you can service them to the capacity you desire and still charge your full $5K price point. For that patient that can only come in once a month, you can still charge your $5K price point through hybrid programming and having a way to serve them outside of the office.

Yep, I totally follow you. You mentioned a price point there and I want to dive in and I'm going to pull you out of this because I think you're the exception personally. Sure. Because of what you've built. But with your clients, what are you seeing for like a sweet spot for an online program in terms of pricing?

$4,500 for 3 months.

Got it. Got it. And why, if you had to guess?

Because I went from $100 to $2,000, $2,500, $3,000, $4,500, $5,000, $5,500, $6,000, and then to $10,000. I went through all of them. We basically found there's like a There's like this scale where it's like if someone isn't willing to spend $1,000, they're looking for like something that's like $500 or less.

That's right.

Okay. But someone who's like willing to drop $1,000 in full, they're basically willing to spend up to $5,000. Once you start passing $5,000, it starts to change a little bit. So we basically found $6,000 is the most that we can charge by staying close to our average close rate.

Yep.

$4,500 for 3 months is below that $5K price point. It's a different number, starts with a 4 instead. And you don't have to provide more time than 3 months to justify the price point. So 3 months, $4,500 is just a super rock solid price point for that duration of time. Thanks so much for checking out that interview. If you liked it, we have plenty more available.

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