She Fought Food for 35 Years. Her Gastric Sleeve Didn't End It. This Did...

I felt like 1,000 voices shouting at me from every direction, just constantly not being able to shut it off. It didn't help that I was menopausal as well, so that kind of slowed things down and it seemed like none of the diets were working. So this was actually my last ditch attempt to get the weight off and keep it off. What I didn't understand was that it was really only fixing the stomach. It wasn't actually changing my eating habits. The surgery fixed my stomach. And back then, I didn't realize that that's all it was going to fix. But this program fixed my brain, and that was the missing key. And I'm not saying it just fixed my brain in terms of my relationship with food, but it's like you said, it's helped me in so many other aspects of my life. 6 months ago, I never thought I'd be able to drive by an ice cream store without actually feeling like I had to go in. Um, go to bed in the evening without having to have a snack to complete my evening. Uh, 6 months ago, I never thought I would be able to determine if I was really hungry when I wanted to eat versus whether I was bored, whether I was sad, whether I was frustrated, and find a different solution. You're worth the investment.

Hi everyone, I'm Jessica Lawson and I'm here with Karen who just graduated from coaching, and I want to start by just reading you something that Karen wrote 7 months ago. I asked her about her relationship with food and what she wrote was that food has way too much power in my life. She also told me that she felt like she didn't recognize herself anymore, and if you're watching this, you might know exactly what that feels like. Karen had surgery. We'll talk more about that too. And she had tried a bunch of different things her entire life. Today we're going to talk about what actually changed for her this time. So first off, Karen, thank you so much for being here.

Thanks for asking me to make this video. Yeah. Encourage anybody else who's out there.

Awesome. So let's start by just tell us a little bit about you. Who are you? Where are you from? Like, when did you get surgery? Tell us the whole shebang.

So my name is Karen. I live in New Jersey. I have 3 kids. They're all free-range adult children. I work as a substitute teacher in the school systems locally here. It's a second career for me as I'm on my way to becoming a full-time teacher. I had surgery probably about 2 and a half years ago now. I did it out of country in Colombia. That's where my husband is from, just because it was so expensive to do it You had gastric sleeve in October 2022, correct? Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The program actually included the coaching with a nutritionist and a psychiatrist before and after, but it was only for maybe about 6 months post-surgery. And then after that, I was on my own.

And why'd you have surgery?

Like— I had the surgery because after I had my kids, I have 3. So after I had my first daughters, when I first started having issues with my weight, And a lot of it was just the whole fat shaming and diet culture in our country. Even if I was only like 10, 15 pounds overweight, there was this whole pressure of having to lose the weight. And it was just the constant— one diet and I would lose the weight. I would have it off for a while. Everybody would tell me how great I did. I'd feel good about myself. And then very slowly I would slip back into the same habits, regain the weight and then some. And then right around the time that I had my biggest weight gain, I took a fall and I became immobile. I found out later on that it actually broke my ankle. So I was immobile. I couldn't get around. I got really depressed and gained a lot of weight. It didn't help that I was menopausal as well. So that kind of slowed things down and it seemed like none of the diets were working. So this was actually my last ditch attempt to get the weight off and keep it off. What I didn't understand was that it was really only fixing the stomach. It wasn't actually changing my eating habits.

Yeah. Do you think your stomach was ever actually the problem?

No, that's the irony of the whole situation is that's what the diet culture wants to sell you. This idea that it's your stomach that's the problem and it's your lack of willpower that's the problem and that you have to be this certain weight for your height. Weight. It's not your habits, nor is it where you feel healthy and comfortable. It's all about what they say you should weigh. Okay.

How old are you right now?

58.

Okay. How old were you when you started struggling with food or your weight?

Geez, I was actually my— around my oldest daughter's age now. So I was I was just in my 30s, late 20s, early 30s. No, actually I do remember being like 23, 24 years old and that's where it started with the diet, with the shakes. Mm-hmm. Because that's what was popular then.

Yeah. Like SlimFast kind of stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah. I remember seeing my mom doing that too. So 58 minus 23, that's what, 35? Right?

Yeah. Yeah.

So you struggled with all this for 35 years?

Yeah.

Okay. That's a long time.

That's too long.

When do you think it was that you finally realized what the real problem, the reason why you struggled for 35 years, like when do you feel like you realized what it was?

I don't think it was until I was in your program, to be perfectly honest.

Okay.

Yeah. Okay.

And when you think of what the problem was, what would you say the problem that you've been struggling for 35 years was?

There's a disconnect between your brain, what your brain is telling you to do and your habits and the physical aspect of the whole situation. Diet culture wants to sell us the idea that it's all the physical aspect of it, but the truth of the matter is that it's really your brain that drives— that's the drive behind everything else. It's your brain that dictates your habits, and those habits that you just do over and over again are— I saw a lot of times they just operate on autopilot, and unless you understand that No diet is ever gonna— no diet, no surgery is gonna change that.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

So let's go back to right after your surgery. I'm assuming the help that you got was probably virtual.

Yeah, it wasn't even that. It was over the phone.

Okay.

Like, the thing of it is, I'd be struggling with something, or all the stuff that most people struggle with after they have their surgery. I got nauseous, I, I got dumping syndrome, I ate too fast and threw up, but I wasn't quite sure what to do about these things. And I would call and I'd leave a message and then they'd call me back and tell me, oh, that's perfectly normal. Just slow down this, that, and the other. And then about the diet, what should I be eating or how much should I be eating and all that kind of stuff. They just kept telling me to do the same thing. And that works for a while, but then when you're like a year post-surgery, it's, it doesn't work anymore and you're on your own.

So when did things start to get really tough after surgery? Because it sounds like they were— it was never 100% smooth sailing for you, right? But everyone gets to a point where some of the old patterns start coming back.

Yeah, because in the beginning, it's— in the beginning you have a smaller stomach, so you almost can't— you can't do anything wrong because you're eating smaller portions and the weight is just dropping off of you. And so you're— you become convinced that this is how it's going to be now. I'm just going to keep losing weight and losing weight and everything is fine and rosy. And then one day, all of a sudden, you start to notice that the scales start creeping up again. And you think about it and you're like, oh, I had some ice cream last night, or I had two ice creams last night. And then it's, why did I do that? And it's, oh, I'll be okay because the weight's just going to keep coming off again. But then it doesn't.

So when exactly, do you remember how far out after your surgery was it when you had that moment of, oh, the old habits, old patterns are starting to return?

About a year and a half after the surgery.

Okay. Yeah. Spring 2024?

Yeah, probably around there. I started to notice it in the mirror and then I noticed it on the scale and then I started to panic.

Okay. What were the things that came back first?

In terms of my habits?

Yeah.

Evening snacking came back because I'm one of these people that stays up late cuz her brain won't shut off. And you stay up late and I'm watching TV and then And there's all kinds of suggestions for food on TV at night. And so then all of a sudden you think you're hungry because you just saw a commercial for something. And so then you're like, you find yourself in front of the refrigerator or in front of the snack cabinet and you're thinking, oh, well, it's just, it's just, it's just wheat crackers. I can just, I can have those. And then it's almost like you fool yourself into thinking like, since they're wheat crackers, I can have as many as I want and, and I won't gain the weight. It kind of reminds me of my my grandmother, my father's mom, he tells this story about how she used to make angel food cake. And cuz that on diets, that's like supposed to be like really light in calories and stuff. But then he said she would eat like the whole thing because she thought because it was angel food cake that, you know, like she could eat the whole thing. And that's what it ended up happening with me. It was like, it's just one ice cream. And then it's, it's one ice cream in the morning and it's one ice cream in the afternoon.

Yeah.

That kind of thing. And then there was, of course, the food pushers. Family events and things like that, which is just, you know, so many in your life. Oh my God. My dad thinks that the best way to show his love is through snacks and sweets. And that was there since I was a little girl. I remember that I struggled with my math homework and he'd come over with Hershey Kisses and tell me this was energy. I need the energy, that kind of thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. So let's go back to that year and a half mark. What did a typical day with food look like for you then?

I never could give up my coffee, so I'd have my coffee in the morning. And in the beginning, it started out as just black coffee with a little bit of sweetener in it. And then I was like, I got to a point where I was like, I can have a little bit of creamer. So then I started buying the flavored creamers and I would have 1 or 2 coffees in the morning. And then because I drank the coffees, I wasn't hungry for breakfast, so I would skip breakfast. And then I would have lunch because I always pack my lunch. Maybe bring a piece of fruit or some nuts or something, because that's what they told you right after the diet, right after the surgery, that you could have a little snack in the afternoon. But the difference was that I was now a year and a half out. A handful of nuts wasn't going to— wasn't going to fill me up and keep me from eating. I wasn't eating enough. It wasn't protein-forward. And so then I would get home and I would be hungry and I would go in the refrigerator and I'd eat something and then I'd feel horrible about it. And then that would push off my dinner time and And then my husband would get home really late and I was always trying to wait for him so that we can eat together, cuz it's just the two of us and who wants to eat by themselves, you know? And then it would be like I would try to make something healthy. Eventually my food went the wayside and I started eating stuff that I probably shouldn't be eating, or I didn't know what to— I didn't know how to make healthy choices when we would eat out or pizza on a Friday. Don't cook tonight, I'll pick something up. What do you want? He's going down to the Greasy Spoon to pick us up dinner. The healthiest choice maybe was this greasy chili with a ton of crackers. And then the chili would be in the fridge. Then later on in the evening when I was hungry, maybe I would heat some of it up. So I was actually having an extra meal in the evening and it was just chaos. Eating chaos. And then of course, you know, the story about the popcorn, the popcorn. I think we tell ourselves these stories about like with the wheat crackers, it's wheat crackers, so I can eat, I can eat a box of them or The popcorn was like, I can control myself if I take the bag into the bedroom and eat it while I'm watching TV instead of portioning it out for myself. And so I knew I was eating more than a cup full of popcorn, but I told myself these lies about, I deserve it. I can have a little snack and all of the bad habits.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Before we started working together, what was food noise like in your head? I want you to imagine describing it for someone who's never put words to it.

Oh my God. First, the time I heard the word food noise, I was like, what the heck is that? But then I thought about it and I was like, it's like, it's, did you ever go down? It's, I live out right outside of New York City in the suburbs outside of New York City, more or less. Yeah. If you ever gone into a busy train station and there's just all this conversation around you.

Yeah.

And Not only that, layered on top of the conversation is the sound of the announcements of the trains, and layered on top of that are maybe music playing out of the stores that are in the area, and then the shuffle of the people moving back and forth, and then the arriving train sounds. It's just— your head is just swimming with all of this noise. And that was kind of like— what food noise was to me, it was like I couldn't shut it off. It was just always there. It was— I'm eating breakfast and my mind's already saying, "What are we having for lunch? What are we having for lunch? Do you have any snacks in the house? Maybe we should get ice cream on the way home." Yeah. "Gee, I really like that flavor of creamer we had the other day. I wonder if they have any more. I should probably go to the store and pick it up." And forget grocery shopping. Grocery shopping, I had to make sure I ate before I went. And even when I did, it was just like, I felt like a thousand voices shouting at me from every direction, just constantly not being able to shut it off. And then of course, when you watch TV, you literally get the commercials shouting at you that you need to eat these foods.

Yeah. I remember the day I had my surgery when I was recovering in the hospital, I was watching Shrek and it was on cable. So cable has commercials and just. Yeah, Pizza Hut pizza commercial, ice cream commercial, all these fast food chain commercials. And I just remember eating my ice chips in my hospital bed and just thinking to myself, what have I just done? Yeah. And so I'm curious for you, before we start working together, when did it click for you that the work you needed to do was mental and It wasn't about your stomach, it wasn't a diet. 'Cause, 'cause it sounds like you'd already done those things.

Yeah.

For 35 years, right? Didn't have a good experience, didn't solve the real problem. But when did it actually click for you what the real problem was?

It was one day, I think I was having a conversation with my husband and he said to me, I, I was worried and I said to him about, I'm gaining weight back and everything. And he was just like, well, I don't know what else to tell you because the surgery was the last attempt. And if it does, if this doesn't work, I don't I don't know what you're gonna do. And I remember being in a little bit of a panic thinking, he's right. The surgery was supposed to be the answer. And if the surgery isn't working, you know, what am I gonna do? And I have a friend who hadn't had surgery, but she was gaining a lot of weight because she was going through menopause. And she said to me, she sent me a message and she's, hey, I found this lady online and she's doing a seminar tonight about food noise. And I was like, what is that even? And I was like, I don't have that problem. And she's, I think maybe just think about jumping on the webinar. I'm going to be there and we can both just listen to what she has to say and see what we think. And she's a huge support for me and I am for her. We've always been really good like that.

Yeah.

And it was your, it was one of your webinars, one of your free webinars. And I remember listening and I listened up to the point when you started to talk about the program because I was like, I don't have any money for this kind of stuff. I'll just have to figure it out on my own. But I did take copious notes and—

as you do, that's who you are.

And afterwards I remember spreading them all out on the bed and just reading them over and over again. And I was like, that's when it clicked. And I was like, that's the missing piece.

Yeah. Wait, so you actually attended my very first one I ever did. Now I do 'em a lot more regularly, but you attended the first one. And it sounds like you registered the same day. I did.

Yeah. When she told me, because you have to understand this friend of mine, she makes a suggestion, but she won't stop until you like, you know, she's, her suggestions are more like, you need to do this and then you just do it because if you don't, she's not going to stop. So I was just like, all right, I'll listen to what she has to say so that I can check this off the list and then she'll leave me alone and I can figure this out.

Right.

But she actually had stumbled onto something credible this time. Yeah. Oh, okay. Wow. Yeah.

You attend this—

wow.

So you attend this webinar and you're like, oh, guess I'm here. But what kept you watching?

Because it just made a lot of sense. It was just the way that you delivered the information. It was like, first of all, I'd never heard anybody refer to the surgery as having their stomach amputated. I was kind of like, But then I thought about it and I was like, yeah, if somebody had to have another limb or body part amputated, there would be a whole different mindset about it. But when we do this type of an amputation, we, we, we flower it up and we call it surgery.

Yeah.

Surgery, that kind of thing. And you don't really think about it, but when you think about it in those terms, it's yeah, this was really serious. I really invested a lot into this, and now I need to take care of that, what I did. I need to guard my investment. And then there was just the way that you were talking about the disconnect between the brain and the surgery, and the habits were still there. They fixed your stomach but not your brain. That's the expression that I really remember sticking with me. And I was like, yeah. And then I had started reading Atomic Habits at that time. And so it was interesting.

A lot of what I do is based off of Atomic Habits.

Yeah. I, I, I started recognizing that and I was really syncing a lot with the book. And so a lot of what you were saying was making sense to me.

Yeah. That's where habit stacking, 1% better, all that stuff comes from that. Yeah.

Yeah.

I didn't know that. Okay.

Yeah.

So you were worried about cost and you were like, I'm going to do this on my own, but then you reached out. So what made you reach out?

Because I said to myself, this person has a whole program here. You haven't been able to do it on your own so far. Even if you were able to implement a little bit of what you read in Atomic Habits, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak, that you had done this program. Like, you'd done it for yourself, you'd done it for other people. And I was like, why are you going to reinvent the wheel when you can have somebody who's done this before successfully show you how to do it.

Yeah. So what made you willing to trust that this one could be different? Because you're someone that, you know, I say this a lot, but you're someone in particular that likes to kind of like do it on their own and, and figure it out and, and do that. But what made you willing to trust the this would be different?

I don't know. I just, I think maybe I heard some of the, you know, I watched some of the testimonials of other people that had gone through the program and heard the changes that they had made. And I said to myself, well, I'll give it a shot. And if it doesn't, I don't see any changes in the, you know, in the first couple of months, then I'll try something different. But I have nothing to lose at this point. I have nothing to lose because the scale keeps going up. And if I wait, I think you had asked me a question when we first talked about like, where do you think you'll be in a year if you don't do this program? And I was like, I don't wanna think about where I'll be. And then it'll be even harder because then I'll have all that extra work to do. Might as well give it a shot.

Yeah. So you joined. When did you first realize that things were might be different, that things were going to be different. What was their specific moment at all?

Or— Yes. Yeah.

Okay.

I think it was a conversation that I kept having with you about calories until you were finally like, enough. Just like, how many calories am I supposed to be eating? But no, it's when you were like, enough with the calorie tracking, Tara. This is a completely different program. I remember last time we had that conversation, I was like, She doesn't understand.

I do understand. It's not gonna do anything helpful for you. Right? Like, and, and, uh, and at one point you said it too in a coaching call or interaction we had where you were like, yeah, like 200 calories of chicken is totally different than 200 calories of a candy bar. And I'm like, exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because I think back to when I was younger and I started like all these other diet programs and your metabolism is different when you're a lot younger. They never really said that to you either, like 200 calories. And then like later on, some of the diet programs started to understand that and talk about that. Here's 200 calories of a healthy— of healthy choices versus 200 calories of non-filling foods and that kind of thing. But, but that time it was like, guys, you're so late to the party. Honestly, it's so late to the party. And there was— I remember vaguely in some of the diet programs there was a little bit mention of You might want to change some of your habits, but there was just never this focus of, you need to break these habits or you're going to go back to the same. It was almost like they just wanted to get you through their program to show that you were a success and then you're on your own again.

Hmm. Or they want to keep you as a client forever.

I think that the key thing is that they know that you'll have success, you'll have success for a while, and then you'll go back to your same old habits. And then they'll have you back again. And it's never our system is broken. It's always you're broken. You're broken cuz you don't have enough willpower.

Yeah. That's not the problem, is it?

No, it's never, it's, you know, I mean, you've said it before. It's never about willpower.

Yeah.

You know?

So when you think about all our time together, what do you feel was different about what we did, how we did it, or the approach in general?

First of all, I didn't realize how many months that I've actually known you. It went so— it went so fast.

I know it did.

It really did, I think. And that was because of the structure of the program. There's the constant support with the daily check-ins. There's the group calls every Tuesday, which give you a sense of community and support. And you see other women who are just like you. I remember one of the questions I asked you was, a lot of programs that are there designed to help you lose weight, the big success has always been with really young women. And I'm thinking, I'm 58 and I'm postmenopausal. And there are different struggles and can you help somebody like me? And then when I got on the call, I was like, wow, there are women on here all ages and there are a lot of women on there my age. So I was like, okay, that was one of the things that made me stay because I saw, I saw other people that had my struggles, that had similar lifestyles, that understood.

Yeah, I work with a lot of teachers, a lot of teachers, a lot of people in education in general because You're not really eating naturally throughout the day.

Yeah.

So then the food noise goes bananas at night because you're not fueling your Maserati. And then that you're always taking care of other people. Yeah. And it's never about yourself, et cetera. Teachers also tend to think that they can figure out it out on their own and like are almost feel like getting support as admitting that they did something wrong.

It's kind of how our, how our profession is.

Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And I find as well, they're the ones that are really into the perfectionism, you know, all or nothing because they're used to grading.

Yeah.

And grading students, getting evaluated by their superiors, you know, like just there's some sort of perfect score in their minds and that is, uh, a mindset that we absolutely gotta squash, right?

Yeah.

And so you wrote on your intake form, I went back to it when I was writing the questions for this, that your number one goal was to quiet the food noise and get control back. So why was that the goal you led with?

I think because of the fact that I, I just needed to, I needed to take back some control in my life. I felt it was just chaos. And yeah, there's so much noise in a teacher's life during the day. The classrooms are noisy, the hallways are noisy. You're— there's so much that's expected of you that noise in general for me, like I remember even there were times just driving home from work, I'd get all the way home and realize I didn't even put the radio on because I just needed it to be quiet. I needed some rest, some peace in my mind. And it's funny because there's a lot of videos and memes out there about my brain after, like, when I try to go to bed and it's like always some crazy character dancing and a lot of music and noise. And that's, to me, was what food noise was like. And I was just like, I just need a break from that. And if I can have some rest from that, I would feel normal. And I was like, other people can do it. Why can't I? Yeah.

Walk me through the first few weeks or first few months together. What did we do? What were you trying? Like, when did things start actually clicking?

My first concern was that it was gonna be a lot and it was gonna be overwhelming because that's the mentality that you have to go into a new quote diet is there's always things to figure out and it's overwhelming and a lot that you have to new things that you have to put into place. And so I was a little scared when I first started because I was like, "Oh God, here we go again. I'm going to have to learn all this stuff." And what was funny was that we were using EverFit and I was like, "Where's my water tracking?" And you were like, "We'll get to that." And I was like, "Oh, okay." Like, all I really have to worry about is the AM and PM check-ins and did I take my vitamins and track what I ate today? And you were like, yeah. And I'm like, okay, but no, there's gotta be more to that. And you're like, no, here, watch this module. And I was like, okay. It was funny because I was doing this stuff without even realizing it. It didn't feel like overwhelming, as overwhelming as I thought it was gonna feel.

Good.

Yeah. I didn't watch all the videos, but I was also grading papers and still learning Mandarin in the evening to teach during the day. You know, like, that was insane. So I was always like, okay, well, something's gotta give, so I'll get to the video at another time. And I would do, I would do catch up on some of the videos. And it was funny because it was one of those things where it was like a bigger task in my head than it actually was, because then I would watch the video and be like, why am I putting this off? I actually enjoy these.

So you thought it was gonna be overwhelming, it wasn't. Did you feel like you were changing?

I don't think I realized that I was really changing until maybe about midway through.

Okay.

Where I would find myself having conversations with myself when I would have some food noise and I would be actually implementing the tools that you had given. And I was like, "Hmm, okay, this actually works. I'm actually— I'm actually— something's actually sticking." And then it was funny because at one point you gave an assignment where we had to go and evaluate what was working and what still needed to be. And I have, when, when I went back and I looked, what I did for that one was I went back and I looked through all the video modules and I just, I didn't watch them all, but I went through them. What was the topic from the beginning all the way to where I was? And I was like, oh my God, I, there's, I've done so much that I didn't even realize I've been implementing all this stuff and I didn't know it. Like the anchoring and the habits and and stop and all that stuff. And I was like, wow, okay, I've done a lot more here than I realized. And then I remember writing to you one time and saying about the weight that I was at and that I had been that weight before. And when I had been that weight before, it was more of a focus on the number. And so I felt really horrible about being that weight. But this time I had— my mindset had shifted. So I was at that weight, but I was okay with that weight. I was okay with being that weight. And I realized that, you know, it was more about feeling good and feeling healthy than it was about being a certain number.

Yeah. How did that make you feel about yourself as a person?

Felt like I'd grown up.

Yes. Okay. Wait, explain that to me.

Because I think especially women in this country are sold this idea that you have to be a certain number. Yeah. You know, and especially when you're like a lot younger, when you're in your 20s and stuff, it's like nothing feels as good as thin does, a thing. And you've gotta look a certain way and it's a one size fit all kind of a thing where it's like, What do you mean you're 5'4" and you weigh that much? You're supposed to weigh this much. So if you don't hit that number, then you're not acceptable. You're not, you're not good enough, you know? Um, and I think when you hear that for so long, you buy into it. And then at some point in your program, something just clicked and it was like, you've been sold a lie your whole life.

Yeah, 100%. And so we, one thing we did too is we mapped out, you mapped out your triggers for really the first time ever. Yeah. How was that process and what did you find?

It was freeing. It really was freeing to actually see it on paper and to realize these are the actual things that are behind why I'm eating. Yeah. And I can change these. I might not be able to change some of the people involved, but I can change how I react to them. And that's empowering.

Yeah. I think one big thing that I've learned as a coach in particular is that giving, giving my clients knowledge gives them power. And when folks understand why they're doing the things that they're doing and why it's happening, mm-hmm, it just kind of like, I can like see in their facial expression, like the light bulb going off and just, mm-hmm. I think the, the trigger mapping does a really great job of like laying it all out. And it, it's pretty, it's pretty in depth. We get into a lot of it and then it just time to start testing, right? And testing and knowing some of these might be more effective than others. We don't know until we start using them.

Yeah.

And I think that's something too where like you've, you know, American women are told, do the South Beach diet. It worked for 1 million people, right? Like do this thing, it will work. It's a little bit different, right? Where it forces you to think about things like, okay, let's test this, let's collect some data, let's update it, make it better, et cetera. Right? And so this past month and a half too was like very hard for you in general. Mm-hmm. Everything was coming at you at once. You don't have to go into detail about it, but walk me through how you handled things this past month versus maybe how the old Karen would have handled things.

Yeah. First, I just want to backtrack. When you're talking about the diets and stuff, I think one of the things that makes your program really unique is that it's customized. South Beach Diet, Atkins Diet, Weight Watchers— none of these programs are really customized to you. So when you try them, and they don't work, you feel like a huge failure. Whereas you've taken that aspect out of the program because everything is customized. It's customized to your situations. It's customized to your triggers. It's customized to your habits, to your reasons, and to your life. And so that's one of the biggest differences that I saw. And I think that's one of the biggest reasons why it works for so many of us. As far as the stuff that was going on, I mean, I don't mind sharing. You know, I found out that I had 2 fractures in my ankle, which limited my mobility, which really was disappointing because it killed my— I was just starting to feel really great about going to the gym again and everything. And I'm not a gym rat, so I was like walking the treadmill and doing some light stuff like that. But then I couldn't do any of that. And I haven't been able to do any of that for the last 3 months. My youngest child is in the Army, in the military, my baby. And he's— was going off on a year-long deployment, which meant no contact with him. Here by myself with my husband who works late hours, so I'm alone a lot. Primary caregiver for my dad who was widowed a year and a half ago and is one of my biggest food pushers because he thinks that's the way he shows his love. And we have a standing Tuesday night dinner for that he cooks. He's getting better. He thinks mashed potatoes are a vegetable, but, you know, we're getting better.

Are you serious?

Yeah, it's a potato. It's a vegetable, Karen. I'm like, not really, Dad. Yeah. Okay. So I had all of this, plus I finished a long-term teaching assignment and I was back again hopping from school to school. But then on top of that, I found— I figured out I can't just take any assignment because a lot of these schools are older and they don't have elevators. And because of my broken foot, you know, it was just so much.

Yeah.

All at once. So much all at once. And I think this version of me post-program was able to say, "Okay, let's just take a breath. What can we control?" We can control recognizing our feelings and understanding what we need in the moment and that food is not gonna solve it. It's not to say that there weren't slip-ups. We all have slip-ups and it's not about that. But I think that The stuff that I learned in your program helped me to bounce back a lot quicker. The old Karen would have had a slip and would have said, "The heck with it, and I'm just going to go on a diet vacation and not worry about food for a while." And then all of a sudden, one day I would wake up and be like, "Okay, now I'm like 15, 20 pounds overweight and have to figure out what to do about it." Yeah. Whereas The newer version of me post-program was like, "Okay, this kind of sucks, but what are we going to do about it? Food wasn't the answer before. We have to figure out alternatives, alternative ways to deal with it." And I think a lot of the support that I had put in place helped me realizing that it was up to me and not necessarily something that somebody else was going to resolve for me, nor was food going to be the answer. Yeah, it's a lot different.

Yeah. So when you look back on all our time together, what is the through line? If you just sum up what you feel like you learned and maybe in a sentence, what would that be?

That it's not about motivation. It's about the why. It's about understanding what's behind the eating. And once you understand what's behind the eating, you can understand how to manage it.

I love that. What is your relationship with food like now compared to 7 months ago?

I'm not gonna lie, I still like food.

You're allowed to like— this is not a anti-food conversation.

No, I know that. I do. Yeah. I feel a little bit like with food, it's almost— you have a bad relationship and then you break up and you realize that person wasn't so great. And why did I think they were so great? And you start to see all their flaws and stuff like that. It's kind of like that now where it's like, why was I eating all that popcorn? He was never that good for me. He lied. Oh, popcorn lied to me and said it was good for me, hid behind the fact that it was popcorn. No, it's kind of like now I realize, okay, eating 2 bags of popcorn is not the answer to the situation. I have to figure out a better solution to what's going on in my life right now and lean on my friends and lean on my systems. And, and yeah, and it's funny because I started to get into this, oh, it's warmer now, so it's ice cream season. So I should have an ice cream cone on the ride home. And I found myself the other night. Arguing with myself because I was coming home from taking Dad out and it was a late night and I was frustrated because he had pushed me a little bit. He, yes, instead of being ready after his meeting and coming out, I saw him inside and he was talking and talking and then he got in the car and he needed me to take him someplace before we went home and this, that, and the other. And I was like frustrated with him because I was like, Dad, you do realize that by the time I drop you off and get home and pack all my stuff for tomorrow, that I'm not gonna get in bed until midnight. And so I'm driving home and I'm replaying all this in my head. And I was like, oh, you know what would be really good right now is an ice cream. And I remember saying to myself, it was like your voice was in my head, like, well, why do we want the ice cream? And I was like, oh, I want the ice cream because I just had a really rough evening. Well, is ice cream going to solve the problem for you? Or do you need to recognize that you're feeling frustrated and what can you do about it? So Um, yeah, I gave my steering wheel a stern talking to and as if it was my father and got all the frustration out and then got out of the house and said, just breathed out and said, okay, did not need the ice cream to say, to handle that.

That's huge. That is huge because I, ice cream was my kryptonite in the past as well. So I understand that very deeply.

Mm-hmm.

But the first thing you said to yourself wasn't, don't eat the ice cream. Mm-hmm. I think society teaches us to come from a place of restriction and willpower. Yeah. And you know how I feel about those two things. And I love that the first thing you did was you, you went through STOP, right? Like you paused and then you asked yourself, what's going on? Like, why do I feel like I need this right now? And then basically evaluate your options, right? That is, but it also sounds like you didn't really have to think about even doing that. It just happened.

Yeah.

That's huge, right? That's when the old Karen goes to die and then, and we thank the old Karen cuz old Karen got you to where you, you are now. And then welcome the new Karen that has the new patterns, et cetera. And so. I know one other thing you told me too, can't remember if it was a coaching call or in our messages, but at some point you told me that you walked right past the table of candy in the teacher's lounge and then December, November in the fall, you couldn't even walk to that room. So when you walk in now, what happens in your head?

I look at it and I go, that's nice.

Okay, cool.

That's nice. Uh, you know, and I, you know, like I've put things in place. So this one particular school where they do that a lot, it's like a, it's like a weird setup to the teacher's lounge. It's like almost like like a U, and there's a— so there's one side where they put all the goodies, and then there's the other side where there's a smaller table. And a couple of times, some of the teachers have said to me, oh, why do you always eat over here? And I use different excuses, like, oh, I just— I had a headache today, or I just wanted to be alone, or whatever. But the real reason is because all the goodies are on the other side, and I don't even want to be around them. Like, I just I have my food and I'm good. And I don't want the pressure of having to explain to you why I don't want the food or, you know, I mean, sometimes it's fine and I'll go sit over there and they'll be like, oh, you should, you know, like, oh, they brought lunch in for us. You should have some. And I'm like, good. I got, thank you. But I brought something and I'm fine with it. I don't need it. Or I, and I don't want it. Or like, why? I have my stuff and I like my food.

Totally. Let's play a quick game. You down?

Okay.

All right, I'm gonna name a place. You give me one word for what the old Karen would have done, or maybe how she would have felt, and then one word for how you are now. Okay, you ready?

Yeah.

A buffet.

Uh, the old Karen would have felt overwhelmed. The new Karen would feel excited but in control.

All right, grocery store.

Uh, the old Karen would have felt again overwhelmed, too many choices, and the new Karen feels like it's a place to get the stuff to fill my body. Mm.

A cruise.

A cruise. The old Karen would have said a cruise was an excuse to cut loose. The new Karen would say it's an opportunity for friends and entertainment.

All right. Week-long trip to Italy.

When do we leave? Yeah, tomorrow. I think the old Karen would have said that we just eat uncontrollably and regroup when we get back. And the new Karen would have said We're gonna make conscious choices to enjoy food in small portions.

Love that. I like this game. This is the first time I've really ever done this before. I just kind of thought of it. Yeah, it's like categories. Let's say your dad's pantry.

Oh God, you're gonna get there eventually.

Yeah, maybe the last one.

Okay, so, uh, yeah, you know, that's my kryptonite, so I think that The old Karen would've said it's a scary place to be because there's just too much temptation to overeat. And the new Karen says that it's nice for him, but I don't need it.

Okay, cool. Did you trust yourself around food before we started working together? No. Okay. Do you trust yourself now?

Yeah. You know, it was funny the other day. I was like, um, you know, I can be alone at home with nobody watching me. Before, if I was home alone and nobody's watching me, I was like a little kid. I was like, I'm going to eat all this stuff I'm not supposed to eat because nobody's here. And the other day I found myself packing my meals even though I wasn't going to work. I was going to be home. And my husband was like, I thought you weren't working tomorrow. And I'm like, I'm not. And he's like, are you planning your meals for tomorrow? And I was like, because I'm still going to eat tomorrow.

Yeah, you got to be prepared. I— my, my kitchen's full of containers. Yeah, totally.

Yeah, yeah.

What surprised you most about doing this work? Like, what did you expect versus what actually happened, if there's anything like that?

I think when I started the program, I expected it to be just like another diet program, and it was going to be like, you need to do this much exercise and you need to eat this many calories, and that's how we're going to get you, you know, the rebound weight off of you. I really wasn't expecting it to be so focused on the mental aspects of it, the Understanding why you're eating, how do you interrupt the program, you know, in terms of your old habits when they creep up. It was more behavioral, behavioral changes than actual— yeah, there was, we were on EverFit, so it was like, okay, you should track your water, so you should be drinking this much water, that kind of thing. But that fell more into like, this is a habit that you need to have, not so much a focus on this is part of the diet.

You know, um, cuz a lot of what we talked about too, like especially when it came to water, it, it was more so like how do you make sure that you're able to drink water, right? Yeah. Because with you and your schedule and being at the school, you weren't able to get it in. And so it, it wasn't like you better go get it in and chug until you, you drop it. Yeah. You know, it was like, okay, like let's habit stack, let's "Let's find the times in your day," right? Like it was very customized. Customized, yes. But I mean, yes, but like solution seeking.

Yeah.

As well, if that makes sense.

Yeah. I like the way that you put it as even if you have a slip up, it's gathering data to figure out how to, how to move forward from here rather than just being like, well, you screwed that up. You know, um, you just have to, you know, figure out how to do this, you know, and make sure that you're drinking water. You know, that's your problem if you can't get a bathroom break for 3 hours, you know, the thing.

Yeah.

Which is the reality of it. And so when you're trying to get in 32 ounces or 64 ounces of water in the day and you're like, okay, this isn't working. Having your support to be like, okay, well, let's see what we can do. You can drink a little bit in the morning, sips in the after— during the day, and then more in the evening. Okay, let's try that and see if that works. So it was more like you said, solution-oriented than it, it was like, well, well, this is just it. You just have to figure out how to do it. It's part of the program. If you don't do it, then you're a complete and colossal failure.

Yeah, totally.

Okay.

I want you to finish this sentence for me. 6 months ago, I never thought I'd be able to—

6 months ago, I never thought I'd be able to— but there's so many ways I could finish that sentence. You know, drive by an ice cream store without actually feeling like I had to go in. Um, go to bed in the evening without having to have a snack. To complete my evening. Uh, 6 months ago, I never thought I would be able to determine if I was really hungry when I wanted to eat versus whether I was bored, whether I was sad, whether I was frustrated, and find a different solution.

Mm.

Yeah. There's so many different ways I could answer that.

What came to mind for me about you was 6 months ago.

I—

well, I always knew you were capable of this, but what I imagined you saying when I wrote this down was you saying 6 months ago, I never thought I'd be able to prioritize myself and hold my boundaries. Yeah, I think that's been a really big thing for you in general.

And like, that's huge.

We've— and that, you know, percolates through all areas of your life, not just food, right? Yeah. And so take me back to the day of your surgery. You're on the table about to go under, and once you compare surgery day Karen to who you are right now in front of me, who is Karen now?

The surgery fixed my stomach, and back then I didn't realize that that's all it was going to fix, but this program fixed my brain, and that was the missing key. And I'm not saying it just fixed my brain in terms of my relationship with food, but it's like you said, it's helped me in so many other aspects of my life. You know, that story that I told you a little earlier about, you know, giving a stern talking to my steering wheel because I was frustrated with my father, part of what I learned in this program helped me because the next time I saw him, Um, I took him to his group, and as he was getting out of the car, he said, okay, I'll see you at, you know, 9 o'clock. And I said to him, yes, 9, 9:05, or 9:10, but not 9:30 and not quarter to 10. We cannot— you cannot do what you did to me last week.

Good.

And the old Karen would have never had the courage to say that because she would have felt so guilty But everything that I learned in this program, I was like, no, he is taking advantage of my kindness. And I have the right to say, I don't mind doing this for you, Dad, but you know, you have to also consider that I have to get home, set up my stuff. I have to work tomorrow. And you can't just, you know, like we're not all retired. You You can't stay an hour after the program and leave me sitting out in the parking lot waiting for you. That's not fair to me. And the old Karen would've never had the courage to do that. And that was, you know, as you said, prioritizing myself and my sleep. I was like, no, because the last time I was like, the next day I was exhausted. And like when you're exhausted, then you get decision fatigue and there's always temptation like to eat. And thank goodness I had meals planned for the next day, but It was really an effort that evening that I came home. Part of me wanted to be like, just go to bed and you'll set everything up in the morning. And the other part of me was like, no, you can do this. Just do this because it's for you. And then, but then I was exhausted the next day and I was angry at him for doing that to me. And so, you know, I, I set those boundaries and had that talk with him the next time.

Good. If you could go back. To the Karen on that very first call with me where we met, scared, had no idea what she was in for, what would you tell her?

It's gonna be worth it. Hang in there. Trust the process. You know, there are gonna be times when you're gonna be like, I don't understand why, I don't understand why this is working, or I don't understand why this is important, or, you know, uh, there were times when I was like, am I really learning anything? And then I, when I went back and did that evaluation, I was like, oh my God, I am, you know, and, and I'm not only learning it, but I'm also implementing it. Yeah.

Amazing.

Yeah.

In one sentence, who were you before we started working together? And in one sentence, who are you now?

Before we started working together, I was all about people pleasing, making everybody else happy. I was not prioritizing myself, uh, my life, my health. Um, and now I am a person who prioritizes myself and my health for me. Um, yeah, I still, you know, like to make people happy, but I've also learned to set boundaries. And to do things for me without feeling guilty.

Yeah. What are the wins that you're most proud of from our time together?

Oh, definitely number one would be setting— being able to set boundaries, um, and keep them, you know, having— setting boundaries with myself. Um, um, I think that the next biggest win is Being able to recognize the emotions that are driving the eating and find alternatives to it. And I think the third biggest win is prioritizing myself and self-care.

Awesome. Yeah. The nail polish.

Yeah. Yeah. I have that whole rack of nail polish. Looks like a nail salon now. It did.

When you showed it to me, our last call, I was like, that was my first thought. Yeah. Awesome.

Okay.

I'm almost done with my questions. Right now there's someone watching this who is just like who you used to be, right? Someone who's scared to take the leap, someone that's scared to spend more money, spend more time, spend more resources, doubting themselves, wondering if they're the problem, if something's wrong with them. Asking like, what, what if something doesn't work, right? Like, what do you want that person to know? What do you want to tell them?

You're worth the investment. I think that, that was— that's the biggest thing, especially, you know, for women and our mothers. Um, most of us are told that we have to prioritize everybody else and You know, you get, you get what's left over. And a lot of times that's nothing. And especially if, you know, like you're a mother and you have family, you know, the money goes towards the family first. And then if there's anything left over, you're allowed to have a little treat, you know, uh, you can get your hair colored or you can get a cut. I can't tell you how many women, like mothers, they're like, oh my God, I just went, I got my haircut the other day. And it's like, a huge thing because it's like, well, when was the last time you went to the salon? Oh my God, you have no idea. I think it was like 6, 7 months ago, but you know, or we're coloring our hair at home or, you know, and you have to think about it. If one of your kids needed this money to make an improvement in their life, you would take a second job. You would stop doing even the smallest things for yourself, you know, to get that money, to make that investment. For your kids because you know it would make a huge difference for them. And yet we're always hesitant to do that for ourselves. We feel guilty when we try to make it— when we— somebody even suggests that we make an investment in ourselves. And I would tell that person that you're worth the investment. Why is it any different? You're an integral part of that family. You're an integral person. You're an important person, and you're worth that investment. It's not a waste of money or, you know, throwing your money away to do something that's going to make a huge difference in your life.

Totally. Well, Karen, those are all my questions. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you want to share?

Um, I mean, on top of being a fantastic program, you're an amazing person.

Oh, thank you.

And you're a great coach because there are times when you're very compassionate, but then there are other times when you give it to the person straight. They need to hear it. Like, yeah, I'm gonna tell you that there was one conversation where I was in a spiral and you were like, well, what advice would you give to a friend? And I was like, I was like, that's not what I wanted to hear.

But it's what you're having here.

But that's exactly what I needed to hear.

And I think I know what you're talking about too.

Yeah. And it was funny because it was like, that's exactly what a friend would say to me. Like, well, if this was me, what would you say to me? And it was like, I guess that's not what I wanted to hear, but what I needed to hear. And you weren't afraid to do it or say it. And it's, but it's never from a place of, oh, I'm so over this person. I can't wait till they finish the program. It was always from a place of like, You need this support right now.

Yeah.

And I really appreciate that. Thank you.

I'm glad. Well, Karen, really appreciate your time. Like you came to me, you know, having had your surgery, you'd already done what your doctor told you to do, your nutritionist told you to do. You'd done everything throughout your life, you know, struggled with all this for 35 years. Now you can say that battle's done, right? Like Yeah. No longer struggling with that. 6 months later, here you are, but not because anyone handed it to you. Like you did the work. You did the work that when people weren't looking, when it was late at night, like you did the work that actually lasts.

And I know on our last coaching call, like I was crying, like, oh, I know. I felt so bad.

No, don't feel bad. It's just, I'm so proud of you. Like genuinely. And. Yeah. And I'm just so proud of you and I'm so glad we got to record this and for other people to hear, like, you know, for, for 35 years food was a thing that you couldn't control, but that's not true anymore, right? Like, right. That part was never gonna come from surgery and like that part is the work, but it's part that no one tells you to do and you did it. That's all.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it's the missing piece. It really is.

Yeah.

And you, you figured it out.

I appreciate that. Awesome. Well, thanks for listening and have a great day.

Thanks. Thanks for your time, Jessica, and thank you for everything.

Oh yeah, of course.