Addiction Is Not A Matter of Will - The Craving Brain Part 1 of 2

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Welcome to our Brothers in Conversation podcast, powered by Jesse and Shondell. Shondell, you are from Bed Stuy do or Die Brooklyn. That little town. That's a little town that's nothing like Hawthorne, Nevada. Population 5,000 cats and dogs. Okay. This is Conversations podcast, brothers and conversation. This is podcast number 37.

Although I'm a sister.

Today you are sister. Today you. In fact, you are sister. And you're also the inventor of all this, because we wouldn't have all this if it wasn't for you. So today is going to be a unique session. This is going to be. We're going to share our notes with one another and with the audience about the book, the Craving Brain. The Craving Brain is an amazing book, and we'll get into why that this book is so amazing and how I. How I discovered the book and what I was looking for when I discovered it. Fair enough.

Fair enough. Let's get started.

Okay. So the craving brain. Dr. Ronald Rudin. Lisa and I are going to share our notes. We're going to just read back and forth and share with one another and with you. And here it goes. So the Craving Brain. The first note I'm going to share is the primary survival system. Got to have it drives everything, sex, truth, relationships, etc.

And some other miscellaneous details would be stories of addiction such as drugs, food, sex, drinking and gambling.

Yes. Primary survival system continued. Will be. Gotta have it or perish. People feel that way. They feel like they gotta have it or perish. It's hardwired into the brain. No thought, no consequences are involved.

Right. The primary survival. Primary survival system continued. In the reptilian brain, the limbic system monitors the neurochemicals and the glaucoids that are released to help us react for survival reasons.

Right. And these are our notes. So this is going to be very raw. I'm going to. We're going to help one another. Lisa has not read these notes. I typed these notes. She hasn't read them in a while. So that's actually glucocorticoids, the neurochemicals and glucocorticoids. So that's what that is. And so when you just pop back to the first few notes, Gotta have it or perish. Hardwired into the brain. A lot of people don't realize that Gotta have It campaign is something that if you're not aware of it, it can be out of control. Whether it's.

Do you know a few people in your life?

I do. Let's start with my mother My mother, in the early days, she had the gotta have a campaign. And we always thought that my mother, we thought that she wouldn't quit gambling. It wasn't that she wouldn't quit gambling. She was in a position where she couldn't quit gambling because she was stuck with the gotta have it. And we thought that gambling was something that people just made a choice. We didn't realize back in the day that it was addictive behavior. They didn't call it an addiction. And not back then. That would have been back in the 70s, right? 60s and 70s. So in my effort to understand why my mother would do the things she was doing and always be broke and penniless and she had decent income coming in, but she always went through it and lost it in the casinos for, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 years. Why?

I can relate to that. I had a father that was the.

Same way exactly with. With what?

With gambling and drinking and addicted to women.

Wow. So there was some sex going on there too.

Yeah.

Well, so primate and reptiles are where we survived from.

Yes. And the primary survival system continued. The homeostasis internally is stable to save off the external forces, the cold, the heat, etc.

Okay, so let's unpack that a little bit. You say the homeostasis. Read that one again. Homeostasis internally stable to stave off external forces. So homeostasis would be like our grounding, where we feel satisfied, sated, like we're okay, we're going to be okay. We're not going to be under attack. Right, Right. Okay. Primary survival system continued. Nature allows us to adapt. Survival of the fittest is what continue to stay with us as we evolve.

Right. The limbic brain and the limbic systems direct survival behaviors and initiates the gotta have it response, such as eating, avoid being eaten, and sex. The ancient part of our brains, the limbic system, tells us what we need and that we've got to have it.

Yes, yes. And how many people do you think are aware of this intelligence Dr. Ronald Rudin is putting out? By the way, this book has been around for a very long time. I first read the book over 20 years ago.

Well, if somebody's looking for it, they're going to find what they're looking for.

Right? Right, right, right. So bundles of nerve cell fibers connect with the nucleus accumbens, which process input from other parts of the brain that produces the needed response to go and get it.

Right. And the primary survival system in mammals is the instinct for survival that takes place as soon as the cord is cut. The conscious awareness is not necessary. Survival system sends messages to the nucleus acumen accumbens.

Nucleus accumbens accumbens.

There we go.

Yeah. So check this out. You think about that last note. Is the primary survival system. We are all here as human beings for one major common bond. One major common thing is to survive.

Right.

That's sex. For sex would have sex for procreation to propagate the species. We eat food to survive. And we need a place that we call home and safety our shelter so that we feel like we're being protected from the predators out there.

Right.

And that's really what Dr. Ronald Reuden is starting to lead us out into. Would you agree?

Yes.

Okay. Primary survival system. Pain is the motivator and the instructor to send messages. Those are transmitters. Okay. To us to be motivated to take care of our needs. Hunger pains demonstrating nature's built in survival system.

Right. The brain behavior. The brain responds to the question of perceived threats as. As either predator or not a predator. The fight or flight is driven by different biochemical responses.

In that fight or flight or something people know they know that's about. That's when you. When you feel like you're under attack and you either flee, run away to get away from it or you put the dukes up and fight your way out to survive. Right.

I lived much of my childhood in the fight or flight.

Wow. Say a little bit more about that. What do you mean? You live most of your childhood in that? Let's talk to the folks.

I was just in certain situations that I didn't want to be in. So I felt like in order to save myself that was the mechanism that kicked in. Was just the fight or flight to survive.

While that's a big deal now, the problem with that is when you have that going on too long it can actually make you sick because you've got that cortisol. I'm sure the Dr. Ronald will talk about that. When that. That. That is intended to help you flee and get away or battle whatever the consequences are. Not to live with that for long term or long periods of time.

Right.

That's actually. You're super lucky you came out as healthy as you did. When you say you live like that most of the time.

Yep.

Wow. That's powerful. Okay, so the next piece I'll read then is. Let's see. Okay. Herding lowers stress. Like herd animal. Like herding animals and so forth. Herding lowers stress and increases feelings of safety. Animals band together when those are around us are like us. We feel safe this herding concept can be seen in many species, such as herds of wildebeest, packs of wild dogs, flocks of geese, schools of fish, country club members, religious organizations, ethnic neighborhoods, etc. You can go on and on with that. Home and safety is where the herd is, not where the heart, just where the heart is where the herd is. Every day. Suburban living reflects this second level primal survival system.

And the third survival system is procreation. Gotta have it begins at puberty and.

Then we follow by dopamine and serotonin functions. Hunger and desire for longing causes stress. The power to move us into action starts in the nucleus accumbens with appropriate stimulation from various brain structures. The amount of dopamine released depends on the intensity of stress. The more powerful the stress, the more dopamine is released and the more powerful is the response. The nucleus accumbens, the Cummins releases a chemical called dopamine, which is a primitive molecule derived from the simple amino acid phenylalaniline found throughout the body, which regulates blood flow. Adjusting hormone levels, setting the timing and movement of the intestines sends a signal to act.

So dopamine and serotonin functions. The most central roles of dopamine is to allow us to focus our senses and allow learning to take shape. It increases the level of arousal, heightens awareness, dilates our pupils, and in an emergency it is converted to adrenaline. Dopamine levels are at the height when the animal is getting food, sex or shelter. We can't easily say no to the dopamine commands.

Oh, that's pretty powerful, that dopamine and serotonin. That's the dopamine is the guy to have it and the serotonin is the. I got it right. I'm sure that's going to come up as well. So very, very good point. You have anything to say about that dopamine, serotonin connection?

The adrenaline is what resonated most with me in that statement. Only because the car accident that we were just in, right. Where my adrenaline off the roof was shaking for three hours.

Let's tell us, don't tell the whole story about the accident, but it was a near death collision.

Yes.

Close to 100 miles an hour between the impact of the two cars.

One going 60 and we were going 40.

Yeah. And not good or bad. This is not good or bad in terms of. We're not weighing against one another. Think about how that both. How that. How we were both after the impact. Look at how it affected both. Look at our behaviors.

Right.

How did it show up on you versus how did it show up on me and that we're in the same situation?

Yes. Well, for me, my, my blood pressure was 220 over 160.

Yep.

And they were very concerned about that. And it stayed that level for like three hours versus you were calm, cool, collected, gotta had your, you know, your thoughts about you, your wits about you. You got out of the car, you, you know, the police were there, you got everything they needed and you were completely as if you weren't in the accident, Right?

Nobody treated me like I was in the accident. They didn't even take my, my blood pressure or anything that I recall. Not on the scene.

Wow.

And I actually knew that once our car left, because it was total once it left, we were never going to be able to probably gain things that was in the car. So my mind said, I better pull all of our stuff together. We had all of our computers because we had just gotten home from a speaking engagement in Reno, Nevada for SNC and we had all of our computers. Everything that was super important to us professionally was with us.

Right.

So I gathered our suitcases, I got. I gathered all of our computers. I gathered things that were in the glove compartment. I gather things that once this card leaves, if there's something of value there, it's probably gone.

Right.

And so my mind went into this sort of methodical. Yeah, this, you know, I was. Wanted to make sure. Taken care of. Yeah.

It was very logical and methodical to everything that we needed to take with us. And then we had the fireman take it back to the.

Exactly. So that. But isn't that interesting when you talk about that, you know, what happens to two individuals in the same situation? And I think the reason why mine kicked in that way is because I could see, I believe and felt didn't know it for sure. But Lisa was more damaged and hurt more in that than I was.

Right.

So I had to protect. My desire was to protect that. Interesting. Let's keep going. Dopamine and serotonin functions continued. Serotonin, the primitive molecule derived from the simple amino acid tryptophan. This makes us feel safe and satisfied. Serotonin is the anti impulse agent, the soother. The quieter it darkens the landscape. We need it. When we are overwhelmed by too much at once, thoughts become obsessional or overloaded. Serotonin constrains dopamine's actions, decreases our focus and our ability to make connections with other parts of the brain. It lowers recognition of like things. We need serotonin when we are being overwhelmed. By too much at once. Too little of serotonin makes us irritable. Our annoyance threshold goes down and we can be drawn into action in an instant. A low level of serotonin allows for so many connections to be made that too much becomes significant. Our thoughts either become obsessional or our brain becomes overloaded and cannot process anything interesting.

When one of our survival systems brings a need to our attention, it causes discomfort and thereby produces stress. Sensitivity to dopamine releases in the nucleus accumbens. It raised other areas of the brain also increase dopamine levels. We are on alert and ready to act. If we're unable to find food or a safe place or a mate, the urgency increases, serotonin levels decrease, and at this point, we can't let the thought go with the primary survival system. While the primary survival system drives us to seek food, safety and sex, it is not until the serotonin drops low enough that the idea becomes obsessional.

Wow, that's big. The uneasy combination of rising dopamine and lowered serotonin forces us to seek any solution to end this pain. The drive to stop this longing becomes critical and clear. This is craving. Ooh, let me read that again, Luke. That's good. The uneasy combination of rising dopamine and lowered serotonin forces us to seek any solution to end this pain. The drive to stop this longing becomes critical and clear. This is craving. So that's what starts the craving process. Wow. Isn't that powerful?

Yeah.

Far from being pleasurable, this is uncomfortable. In order to decrease the stress, the reward must be the one the animal already knows will produce the desired results. If we don't accomplish these tasks, our pain becomes inescapable. We starve, get eaten, or never reproduce. Ultimately, we feel that the battle for survival is lost. That's what people don't. That's one of those unconscious incompetence. You don't know what you don't know. People go through that whether they're alcoholic or drugaholic or foodaholic or sexaholic. This process is going on within them and they're living their lives like this, but they don't even know that. They don't know. They need to know this.

Right.

Your thoughts.

It's pretty powerful. And so how do you get the person, the addict, to recognize this?

It's called awareness. Also, I gotta add, they gotta wanna. If they do not want the help. I don't know that answer. Hopefully there's some want some desire to escape, to break through, to overcome. If that's not in There, we're toast.

I wonder what these statistics are that show addicts of all that you mentioned that want to get better.

You know, let's. Let's say we're going to stage that for another podcast. We should do some research and look. Look into that. Yeah, let's see what that is. That's. That's a very interesting perspective. What are the percentage. I really. I'd be willing to bet that the percentage of the people that really want to make the shift to change the transformation is very low. I think they're trapped by their drugs of choice.

I agree.

Whether they drink too much or they eat too much or it's too much. Sex, one after the next, after the next, eating. Yeah, yeah. So that's. That's really good.

So the survival system for food senses a need. Transmitters send a message to the limbic system, which produces feelings of hunger and causes stress. These increases the. This increases the sensitivity of the nucleus accumbens. The seeking of food raises dopamine and the eating raises the serotonin. The survival system senses that the need is satisfied and removes the pain of hunger, which reduces the sensitivity of the nucleus accumbens. The ability of food to motivate action is gone.

Wow. Wow. The survival system senses that the need is satisfied and removes the pain of hunger. See, once it feels satisfied, that hunger goes away. Right. Which reduces the sensitivity of the nucleus accumbens. The ability of food to motivate action is gone. Meaning they got their needs met. Right. Whether it's food or. And most people. Most. I think it's going to come, as I remember in the notes, it's going to come to the point where he's going to talk about the ones that are really strongly addicted, won't stop whatever that drug of choice is until it's gone. No more drink, no more to drink, no more booze in the bottle, no more food and whatever. I don't know. We'll see. So let's go to the next point. Dopamine and serotonin functions continued to reiterate from above. If we can't find food, sex, or place to live causes dopamine to rise. So in other words, like the homeless, the dopamine must be higher in the homeless because they don't have a place to live. Right. So I'll read that again to reiterate from above. If we can't find food, sex, or a place to live causes dopamine to rise and serotonin to drop. It then becomes obsessional. The uneasiness of this State causes us to do anything to stop this longing, this is craving. If we don't accomplish these tasks, we feel like we are going to starve or get eaten.

So the dopamine and serotonin functions. The seeking of food raises the dopamine, and the eating raises the serotonin. So the survival systems see that we are satisfied.

Wow, that's. That's big. Dopamine and serotonin functions continue. Dopamine is the gotta have it. And serotonin is the got it. The rising dopamine is what motivates us into action and the attainment, for example, the full belly, the safe place, the completed sexual act that raises serotonin. At this point, the brain is. Is in a high dopamine and high serotonin state. Contentment floods our being. We feel safe, satisfied, and secure. The craving is gone. The ability of our brain to motivate behavior is gone. We call this a biobalanced state of being.

Okay, I'll throw this out there. How many people do you think are biobalanced?

Ooh, I think that's a. That's another good question. I have no idea. I.

And especially during the COVID times.

Right, right, right. That's a very good point. I think people are starving for biobalance is what I think.

Yeah. Yeah. So biobalance state and the path to ending addiction. The ability of our brain to motivate behavior is called the biobalanced state. A state of harmony, neither pulled nor pushed. We are biobalanced when the levels of high dopamine and high serotonin are at a state of equilibrium. Nothing more needs to be done. And we are content.

Yes, the craving is gone. We feel safe. Understanding the process that produces the biobalance state is ultimately what leads us to the end of addiction and is the feelings of contentment that nature gives us for a reward for our struggles.

Some addictive characteristics. What most addicts have in common is that they exhibit addictive behavior. How can we tell who they are and what ties all addicts together? An addict can look like the boy or girl next door. They are mothers, fathers, lawyers, professional athletes, etc.

Wow. We can't stereotype addicts by age, appearance, race, religion, heritage, geography, economic status, temperament. Addiction transcends simple description. Why does someone become an addict? Isn't that a great question? Why does someone eat too much? Why does someone drink too much?

They're lacking something in their lives or they're escaping something in their lives.

That could be. That could be the first twinge of what gets them started. But I Think. Then it gets to be this chemical thing that. That Dr. Ronald Reuden is talking about here. Right.

It says, why does someone become an addict? Right, right. So they're. They're doing it to fill a void in their lives, probably.

Wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's good thought. Really good thought.

So the quote of doom. Being addicted is like switching seats on the Titanic. You're still going down.

Absolutely. Creation, the egg and the lucky sperm. The union of an egg with one out of hundreds of millions of sperm ultimately creates an individual. It creates an individual's biological terrain through which the brain will convert what we sense and think into behavior. Our terrain disposes us to behave in a certain way.

Terrain, temperament. And what determines behavior? What is terrain? We can use the word terrain to describe the home of what is inherent. Some terrains produce deliberate, friendly and cautious behavior. Other terrains cause behavior that is impulsive, risk taking and aloof. No two terrains are alike, not even in identical twins.

Wow. Our terrain is truly the fingerprint of who we are and how we will respond to our environment. It is what some call temperament. It has been repeatedly demonstrated that alcoholism runs strongly in families. Approximately one third of alcoholics report having alcoholic parents. One study showed that if one twin developed alcoholism, there was a 60% chance that the other twin would develop alcoholism too. Clearly, what is inherited is important.

Yes. Defining a solution for addictive behavior. What alters our terrain?

Well, let's go backwards on that last point. Clearly, what is inherited is important. Okay. Approximately one third of alcoholics report having alcoholic parent. One study showed that if one twin developed alcoholism, there was a 60% chance that the other twin would develop alcoholism too. You know, I'm very happy that I watched my father and mother very closely growing up. And my aunt Helen, my aunt Viola will tell you that that was the kind of kid that I was. I didn't think of it much of it then I didn't really know much of until I was much older when I asked about how I was before the age of five. But this is really interesting. It'd be very easy for me. And you can speak to your own story if you'd like to have been. I could have been addicted. And I do. I need to be very mindful that this is my biology. So I think that my ability to focus is somewhat connected to that because I can. Once I turn my mind on something, I can stay, stay, stay, stay, stay. Well, beyond having to go to go to the bathroom or eat food or take a break. And I think that's I don't know if there's a closeness between. Like my father is a sexaholic and my mother was a gambleholic. I saw that and I decided I am not going to be that. I'm not going to make those choices, you know, And I wonder. I wonder if I had not been cognizant and paying attention as a kid, I easily could have become one or both of those situations. Your thoughts?

There's no doubt about it. And I like it says the one third of alcoholics report having alcoholic parents. If I go back into the lineage of, you know, my family, my father's father was an alcoholic.

Mine too. My mother's father was an alcoholic.

My mother's stepfather, my step grandfather was an alcoholic. My. My brother is an alcoholic. My nephew Jeremy, his father was an alcoholic.

Wow.

So alcoholism is all over.

So what you're saying, Lisa. Pardon me, I don't mean to interrupt. What you're saying is we need to be very mindful of our DNA, Right. That doesn't mean just because we have DNA full of addictive behavior like drugs or sex or alcohol or gambling, that we're stuck, Stuck. And we're going to be that. But if we're not careful, we could easily slide into that.

Right.

Especially, don't forget, our parents are our biggest role models in the early days. Right. Yeah. So most of the times you're seeking to do things like they do.

Right?

Am I right or not?

Yeah. And obviously with my father, he would take me into the bars at age 5. I'd sit and watch him drink and play cards and play pool and it was. It was my lifestyle.

Is that why. Is that. Is that why you can drink so well when you decide to turn on a bottle? That. Why is that where you got that from?

I must be.

No, I'm kidding. She's actually very good. Okay. Our experience profoundly alters our terrains. Sometimes, in fact. You know, let's back up. Read the. Read your point before that again, Lisa, so we can. Because we got a little off to.

A tangent, defining a solution for addictive behavior. What alters our terrain?

Okay. Our experience profoundly alters our terrains, sometimes for short periods of time and sometimes for long periods of time or permanently. Just as when a hurricane slams into the beach and rearranges its formations, shifting its levels of sands and pushing back the dunes, so do life's experiences continually shape our terrain into a landscape that predisposes our behavior? Is that pretty big point? I'll read just the last part again. Just as when A hurricane slams into the beach and rearranges its formations, shifting its levels of sands and pushing back the dunes. So do life or life's experiences continually shape our terrain into a landscape that predisposes our behavior?

The point I just made about the lineage of everything that goes on.

Well said.

So the beach remains a beach and our terrain, the essence of who we are, remains as well. It is this complex mixture of interactions with the environment that alters our terrain and produces a dynamic and ever changing landscape. It is this landscape that determines behavior. It is landscape that predisposes us to addictive behavior. Discovering what sort of landscape causes addictive behavior and how it develops will lead us closer to finding a solution for addiction.

Wow. Who becomes an addict? Not everyone who uses drugs becomes an addict. Some people can smoke two cigarettes a day and some smoke two packs. If drugs that were used were what caused addiction, then everyone would be an addict. A sip of alcohol would lead to a lifelong dependency. The purchase of a lottery ticket would lead to inveterate gambling financial ruin. We would all be impulsive eaters. Therefore there must be something in our landscape that causes us to exhibit addictive behavior. Which is what you were saying too. Those are a lot of the key points you made earlier.

Exactly so. P Rats. Lab studies for breeding alcohol preferring rats. Complexities of human behavior precludes a straightforward analysis of the influences that lead to addictive behavior. Lab rats have been bred to self administer all the drugs that have been abused by humans. In these experiments, the animals are allowed to drink from two different bottles, one containing the drug and the other containing water. Alcohol preferring rats could be bred for voluntary alcohol consumption by mating high alcohol consuming rats until there was a clear distinction between those bred to prefer alcohol and those bred not to prefer alcohol. NP rats.

Wow. Wow. Non preferring rats. That is pretty fascinating. So there's a psychology between drinking and non drinking pea rats, which is probably going to get into something about a correlation between humans and behavior.

Right.

Well, let's do this. Let's pause for a second and have a conversation about what we've shared and read so far. Those people watching or listening to this right now, what do you think they're thinking about this new? Well, it's not new intelligence, but it may be new to them. What do you think people are thinking about the intelligence of what we've shared so far in terms of what causes addictive behavior and the whole craving brain concept?

Well, whether or not they've read this information, I'm sure that they have a friend, a family member or somebody in their life that they've known that's one of the addicts.

Yeah, that's so true.

So that's, that's very relatable for most people.

Very much so. And by, by the way, this being relatable may help them understand differently or better the people that they know if it's not themselves that are affected by this.

Exactly.

Well, I'd like to go on about the psychology between the drinking and the non drinking p rash. I'd also like to say that as a space saver, as a cliffhanger, I'd like to share one of the things that I that was the biggest aha moment that I gained from reading the Craven Brain and who and how it helped. We're actually going to do that in part two. So this was part one of two. We're going to close this podcast for now, but we're going to pick back up. So as a cliffhanger, we're going to come back to you about the psychology between drinking and non drinking pe rats and a cliffhanger about how the intelligence of the craving brain and Dr. Ronald Rudin completely did phenomenal things for me in my life. Having learned, read, learned and understanding this intelligence, that's a pretty good cliffhanger, wouldn't you say?

I think so.

Alrighty, stay tuned. We'll be back in part two of our Notes from the Craving Brain. Sa.