Hospitality: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly -Jeff Ecker, Operator Paymon’s Fresh Kitchen Hookah Lounge

Welcome to our Brothers in Conversation podcast powered by Jesse and Shondell. Shondell, you are from Bed Stuy do or Die Brooklyn.

That little town.

That's a little town that's Nothing like Hawthorne, Nevada. Population 5,000 cats and dogs. Welcome to our special edition of Brothers in Conversations podcast powered by Jesse Farrow and Sean Dale Newsom. Title today is hospitality. The Good, the Bad and the ugly. This is April 1st, 2021, episode number 44. We're going to welcome our special guest, Jeff Ecker, President RCLV llc, operator of Payments Fresh Kitchen Hookah Lounge. Jeff is an amazing professional and I can't wait to get started with this guy. Let's tell you just a little bit about Jeff and some of his background. Jeff received his AAS in Hotel administration from the State University of New York at Delhi and graduated with honors from the top junior college hotel administration program in the nation. That is a big deal. He attended Cornell University while serving in several key management positions at Cornell during his eight years of service and applied the credits towards a BS degree and, and business management from the from the State University of New York at Oneonta. His last position at Cornell was as general manager of the Terrace Restaurant at the prestigious Statler Hotel. This man has been around, it's amazing. He served as corporate general manager of Payman's Mediterranean Cafe and hookah Lounge from August 2000 until I would say this has to be pretty long time. April 2016 running day to day operations and in charge of business development. Jeff introduced very healthy foods of food preparation by being one of the first to use zero trans fats, oils, eradicating chemical tenderizers and only using natural preservatives. He's currently serving as a general manager at Payments. This is just such an amazing resume. I can't wait to connect with you Jeff. Let's bring you on board. In fact, let's just join the conversation that's in action right now.

Remember, Ithaca is left of San Francisco when it comes to culture. So they're very progressive and again, you know, the city was just loaded with, with, with hippies. You know, it's the only, actually the only county that voted for Barack Obama versus Hillary Clinton in the whole entire New York state.

Yeah.

So they're very progressive with their food and with their healthy living. And you know, Ithaca is set in a, an incredible background. I mean the, the natural resources, the gorges, the, the waterfalls. I mean it just, it's, it's amazing. So it all goes hand in hand. And so I grew up you know, in a culture where healthy eating, you know, was important. And of course, the Mediterranean diet, as we all know is the, is every year gets more of the, the most healthy way to eat. So I started doing this about 15 years ago at Payman's, but we didn't advertise it.

Wow.

Because, because there was a stigma at that time with, with healthy eating. You know, Las Vegas was not ready, I guess, because, you know, in the collective minds of the consumer, healthy food tastes like cardboard.

Right. It's true. It's true.

So we didn't advertise it for years. People didn't know that we were doing this behind the scenes and making sure we hand trimmed every single piece of meat to have no, no fat and the use of sea salt and no artificial preservatives. You know, as a matter of fact, we, you know, the Euro, the Euro meat, which is, you know, which is what we're famous for.

Oh, come on, dude, stop.

You know, Yeah, I mean, we sell more of that than, than anything. And you know, we, we actually got the major, well, the, the largest company, Kronos, to produce a non MSG cone. It was the only thing on our menu stopping us from making the claim that all of our food was natural.

Wow.

And, and so actually Payman flew to Chicago when he was at a National Restaurant association show. He met with the president of Kronos and he basically told him that, you know, you guys, you know, are stopping us from really claiming our name to fame, which is, which is healthy eating. And they were very reluctant to change the recipe. He told Payman that for 100 years they've been making this, you know, this Euro meat this way and that there's no way that they could screw around with the, with the process of producing this meat. And then lo and behold, about 18 months later, we got a call and they did it.

Nice.

And all other companies that produce Eurocones followed suit. So they all offer non MSG cones.

Wow.

It's important to, to know, for the consumer to know that when they do eat Euros, it's, it's, it's, you know, it's not horrible to ask the operators whether they're using the non MSG cones because, you know, some people have allergic reactions to it. It's not the best.

Wow. Wow. That's pretty huge. Well, here, here's the thing that, that, that's very powerful. I'm going to say one more thing. I'm going to jump onto some other programs, but I want to come back because I want the Audience. To know the power of this. Of the three in this triad when it comes to hospitality. It's. It's really. It's. It's hunt. It's. It's well over 100 years between the three of our experiences, if you add them all up. So. But I. Before I step over to that, I want to say that you did oversee the opening of the first hookah lounge in the US which is a big deal. And. And that's become. And isn't that a big deal, Shondell?

Oh, yeah. Not as big as a euro, because I love Euro. Definitely. Definitely.

Yeah, yeah. No, that's true. You know, people.

People.

I mean, the name hookah lounge is a generic term for a hookah joint. Hookah place. But that was the name that Payment came up with back in 2000. Actually, we started working on that prior to that. But, you know, when I was. When I was at Treasure island in Golden Nugget, I met. I met Payman in 1992, and I would come in. He was. He was such a great guy. You know, he came from Iran, you know, where they were persecuted. They got booted out of the country. I mean, people were getting, you know, lynched in the. In the streets, you know, when. When the ayatollahs came in and he escaped. And, you know, he wound up working 16 hours a day, two different jobs on the Strip in order to get a little bit of money to open this. Wow. Little Mediterranean place, you know. And so, you know, if you don't love payment, there's something wrong with you, you know, So I started working with him and kind of giving him pointers here and there from. From my big business, large business perspective to try to help him out here and there. And then eight years later, you know, he asked me to come and open up the first, you know, hookah lounge in the country. There was no. No such thing as far as having it in a liquor lounge and food lounge setting where it was the main focus, you know, of the room.

So.

So he came up with the name hookah lounge, and of course, now they're called hookah lounges.

Wow. That's. Bravo. Right?

No, no, but seriously, though, you know what, Jeff? That is pretty amazing because, you know, when you. When you do develop something like that and you create a whole new culture as part of, you know, what everybody sees today as a norm.

Right, right.

And that's. I think that's where we do come together a lot, because as. As Jesse said, there's so many ways that we cross and you know, when I embarked on station casinos the first time, that's when they were trying to create this boarding pass program. So, you know, and now everybody's got a card of some sort. And it's interesting because when you look at something, you're like, man, you know, yeah, we were pretty something special, right? I mean, but. And I'm gonna tell you this too, Jess. Ithaca is a beautiful, beautiful, gorgeous place. And I do agree with him that while people look at the diversity and progression of New York City, Ithaca has a very progressive culture. Beautiful, beautiful place, though. And you get. Some people love going to the city because of the excitement and because of the marketing and everything. But if you get to. If you ever get a chance, you and, you and Lisa go up through Ithaca, just check out New York as a state, man. It's. It's amazing.

No, I appreciate that. That's. That's huge. And I'm going to take off from what you said to, to just champion Jeff's cause here since he is our premier guest here. Under Jeff's direction, Shondell Payments, Fresh Kitchen and Hookah Lounge, they've won 29 review journal best of Las Vegas awards and many other restaurant achievement awards. How cool is that?

That is phenomenal.

That is. That's a big deal. It's not easy. And in April 2016, Jeff started his restaurant consulting and management company, Restaurant Consultants of Las Vegas. And in summer of 2018, he spearheaded the opening of payments third location. And Jeff, you're currently working now on Payments Fresh Kitchen Express concept, which will offer healthy menu items in a quick serve format. Dude, you just, you're. You're getting after it, right?

Well, yeah. You know, you know what's funny, and some people know this, you know, in, in our inner circle that when, when I joined payments in. In 2000, I, you know, I, I told, I mentioned to payment, I said, you know, I think the next big thing is going to be healthy and quick because there's no such thing. At that time, there was no such thing as quick and healthy. Everywhere you went, because you were running out of time for lunch, you and eat. It was the mo. It was the worst. It was fast food.

Y.

And fast food, you know, back then, 20 years ago, hadn't evolved yet where there were healthy options. So I wrote a business plan in late 2001 for this Express concept where it's a, you know, a fast food, Mediterranean based, you know, menu where people could get in, get it quickly and get it healthy. You know, so all the trials and tribulations of the economic, you know, forces, you know, with the housing crash and all this other, you know, stuff that's. That's kind of put us in a holding pattern. We're finally getting, you know, we're making a lot of headway. And so what we're going to do is at Payman's Fresh Kitchen on Eastern Avenue, that facility is going to be a hybrid where one dining room is going to remain full service for those that want, you know, full service dining, and then the other dining room is going to be quick serve where they can walk in, you know, look at the menu board, place their order with the cashier, sit down, and then a food runner, you know, brings the food out and that type of thing. So that's going to be the precursor to the opening, future openings of locations for the payments. Fresh Kitchen Express.

Wow. Congratulations. Well done.

That's going to be great.

Very nice. Well, team with. With that, with that. That. That puts a lot of girth in terms of who Jeff is and how he is. Let's talk about this length of time. How long have you been in the industry so far? Yeah, from, from, from your college days of hospitality to now? Roughly. Wow.

It's got to be 30. 30 years. I mean, I, you know, I. I mean, I grew up. My parents owned an A and W root beer stand in Ithaca for a while.

Okay.

My aunts and uncles and cousin, they. They all had restaurants, and so I. I kind of grew up around it. I knew I wanted to do that because my dad was also a construction worker, so I knew what I didn't want to do.

Right. Fair enough.

I mean, man, talk about. Talk about tough work. I mean, that's one of the reasons I did well in college, believe it or not. Because there was no way. I mean, I just.

It just.

I just saw the guys that were in their 50s and 60s trying to work construction.

Brutal.

I just felt bad for these guys. I mean, they were just wiped out.

Yeah. Because your body breakdown, you know, you don't have the same energy resources you get in your teens and twenties, so that's good.

So your father, the food and beverage.

Yeah. You still busted your butt with it, but it's very different. It's a different kind of grace that happens with that. So 30 plus years, Shonda, how many years you've got in hospitality?

Oh, just. I mean, mine is not even a decade. It was like seven years. Seven years.

Oh, God. I thought it was even longer than that. Okay.

Well, it felt like it was longer because I came in during A period where it was like, just. It was a grind. It felt like. It felt like double the time.

Okay.

Because it was.

It was opening property. Property every year.

Okay, fair enough.

Yeah.

No, I like that.

Can I say, you know, you guys, you know what's. What's interesting is, is, you know, you. You like Jesse, you know, you were in the business. Chandel was in the business. You guys kind of gravitated in a way where, you know, your. Your careers kind of took off in a, you know, in a positive way, and, you know, you accepted the challenges and you kind of steered, you know, your ship. The things that I wanted to say, and I say this in hopes of creating empathy for service workers.

Okay.

And that's why I'm kind of bringing this up. You know, food servers, bartenders, food runners, you know, they've kind of been the doormat for people to come in that are cranky and hungry, and they beat these people up. Now at Bayman's, we don't. We don't allow that. Yeah, we'll tell a customer to leave and never come back if they're disrespectful to our staff.

Good.

Right.

Good.

And that's why we have people that have been with us for 20 years, because we do protect them from the public. But you can see in other places, you can see the attempt of customers to try to do this. And I really think that, you know, the food service industry people should garner more respect for what they do. They're human too. You know, they come to work, they have dying parents, they have children, you know, with, you know, with difficulties. They have problems themselves. They're not there to just be service. Kind of beaten up by the public just because you're paying for the food, you know, and, you know, and so I really wish that, you know, we could bring awareness to these people are, you know, they're. They're. They're in service. They're not servants.

No. Well said.

That's a great point. And you know what, Jess? So I recently sat on a committee to evaluate service people in the hospitality industry for the lvcba. I am. I am still blown away, but when I worked at stations, one of the things that I did as a director of marketing is I came in an hour early just to thank those people, because I agree with you. Because my wife was in food and beverage for 25 years. She spent a lot more time. But I totally agree with you. And so I would always go in and say, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. You guys are the most important people in our operation of what we get done, it cannot be done without you. And I know for a fact what you're saying. I would never let people dump on the folks at the casino or in the hotel or in food, no matter where they. I would come and talk to the customer and say, hey, you know what, if. If you want to have a discussion or dispute, that's fine, but don't be disrespectful. And that was something that most people were afraid to do because they were afraid to lose customers. But I said, I don't want that person because we called them guests. I don't want that person. I wouldn't invite that person in my home if they were rude. So I'm not going to allow them to do that. So I took and let me know whatever you need me to do, Jeff, to help with that, I'll 100% be in with supporting, helping and making sure that we give these people their just due.

I appreciate it.

That's good. That's good on both of your parts. And so look at the combined, the intel between the two of you and what's important to you. And it's not just about you. It's not just about Shondale. It's about the people you're serving. It's about the people you're surrounding yourself with. And so I think the really good, solid hospitality personalities like yours, you guys think that way from ground up. That's just how you roll. It didn't come to you, Jeff. You just. It's just. That's just. You didn't have to go research that. That's just within you. And so I like hearing that. And between the two of you, Shondell seven years, you're 30 plus years. And I've got 36 years in hospitality just from the inside. And then I've got from the, from. From the just talk side. We've been serving hospitality for the 20 years that we've been in business as well. We've been serving it at least a few clients, sometimes more clients. And I love that. I love the fact that when I went to UNLV to get my hotel administration degree, I did that for a reason. I did that because at that time, that was back in the day when people were either hotel or casino. That was it. They were hotel, food and beverage, casino, and they were separate. They brought them together so they can synergize making more money better by working together instead of being three totally different divisions. So I had started in food and Beverage. And then I went over into casino operations to make more money. And when you say that, Shondale, what are your thoughts about that?

Well, you know, I was asked to go over to casino operations to make more money at one point, and I tried slots and all that. You know, it wasn't for me. And that's the other thing that's great about being a part of the industry, is that you get to try out different things and learn different departments. But I, you know, I was naturally in marketing, so I think the opportunities is where. Where I think is a great thing about being in hospitality and learning every bit of what. What it's all about on a larger scale.

I like that. Well, I did that not for the reasons you just said, but the reason why. Let me ask you, Shonda, why do you think it is that I decided to branch out and pick up other divisions?

I think. I think it's just not just natural curiosity, but it's who you are. It's like you wanted to be well rounded. You wanted to understand things, and I just feel. I think that makes you a better person, and it actually equates to what you do now, actually.

Thank you for that. Actually, I wanted opportunity, and there were guidelines that people that look like me were shut out. So people were either hotel, food and beverage, or casino. I decided like Shondell, so he's done the same thing. I decided that if I were more well rounded, it'd be harder to tell me no. So I went, Got a hotel administration degree to pick up the hotel side, and I got casino operations so that I was hotel, casino, and food and beverage, not just one. I did that so that I would be able to hopefully get hired.

I thought, to be more well rounded. That's why you shaved your head?

No, that was why, Sean. No. Shondell asked me. Shondale asked me to shave my head to be more well rounded. It wasn't my thought. That was Shondale. Chandelle helped me out with that. So, t. So t, let me ask you, Mr. Funny Man. So let's get on the program. People can have some fun with this along with us. Share with us, Jeff. And now, Shondale, I want you to listen to this. I want you to follow this, if you will. What was your toughest job in the industry, if you will, Jeff? So think about. Think about.

Yeah, my toughest job in the industry was general manager of payments in what I do now. And. And I'll tell you because Las Vegas is a very unique place. You know, you've got world class restaurants on the Strip, right. They're paying double, if not more. What independent operators can pay. They're giving benefits independent operators can't. There's, there's no way. Right? So not only are we in competition with a world class destination called the Strip, where there are so many celebrity restaurants and big names and.

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, hold on. I'm sorry. Shondell, tell Lisa to stop texting you because tell her I can see you looking at her texting.

Tell her to stop looking at Facebook. I'm, I'm putting stuff in for Jeff.

Okay, so tell me, Jeff, tell me.

So. Yeah, so. So. So the, so the biggest challenge really was going from which you guys can relate to, okay, the culture of a five star, Five diamond hotel. Coming into the independent market, working with employees that are underpaid because of the nature of the business.

Right.

Trying to convey the culture of five star service to somebody that has not worked for Steve Wynn or Sheldon Adelson is a very difficult proposition. You can train and train and you can explain and explain, but unless you're there in an entire culture of a five star situation, it doesn't translate to your staff. And so going, that's where I was going earlier actually, with saying, you know, how you guys have kind of progressed and you've gone in these directions and it's a little bit more gratifying and with me, a lot more from that atmosphere to the local market where the staff just doesn't quite understand the culture. And you really, you can't, if you like, you can't say, you know what it's like to be pregnant if you're a man.

Right, right.

It's just that way, you know, you don't know what it's like to walk in someone else's shoes unless you, unless you're them.

Right.

So. So the difficulty has been to try to instill in the staff service standards that are more in line with, with the restaurants and hotels that are right down the street because, you know, again, these, these customers and guests that are coming in, they work for Wynn and Adelson and Balaj, you know, Bage, MGM and stuff. So they come from that culture. They come into a local restaurant and they're like, you know, what the hell, you know. Again, empathy is very important. It's understanding that, you know, certain people can't operate in the same realm as other people because they don't have, you know, they're not in the right, they're not in the culture to do that. And they just they just, unless they've worked it, they're not going to know it. So that's been my biggest challenge, is trying to get staff to kind of understand the five star mentality and to be able to, you know, you know, pull that off without having been in it and it. And also without having making. Making anywhere close to the money that these other people make, you know, that's another difficult. So this is one thing to say, hey, I want you to be the director of marketing, but I'm only paying you $20,000, right? Shonda, you're going to be like, no, no, no, no.

I don't think they're not going to.

Get shot for 20,000. So, you know, that's been the biggest challenge.

So what we're going to do is. I'm not gonna. You don't have. Don't answer yet, Jeff. I know you're smart and quick and you could do it, but don't answer yet. Lisa and I, I've got to get confirmation from Lisa. We're going to talk about. It's. I think it's more difficult. And Shondell can weigh in on this. Shondell, whenever your mother and father, whenever they're telling you something, as you're maturing and growing up, you hear them. And most of the time we, we hear it, but we don't. It's. It's almost. We hear it differently if someone else. Someone else's father says it, even though they're saying the same thing. So Lisa and I are going to offer to you, we're going to make you an absolute phenomenal deal. It's going to be largely based on trade. Trade rather than cash. And we're going to put together a workshop or whatever we decide of one hour or two hour, whatever for your team. And we're going to come in and say some things to them that's going to blow them away, and they're going to be no different than what you've already said, but they're going to hear it differently. Which means. Which means they may respond differently. Right. So I'm throwing that up as a possibility and we can talk about that when we get back in the green room, because I don't even have to hear what you have to say. I already know your style. I know your. I know your quality standards. I can come in. Well, of course I would run it by you, but. But we could put something together and come in and do something like as a team building thing and blow your. Blow your team away. Right? How cool is that awesome. So we'll consider that. Shondell, what about you? What was your toughest job in the industry?

So it was the director of marketing. And here's the reason why. And there's this one reason was my transition from the military. The military is when you're in the military, everybody knows a rank, everybody knows what you're supposed to do and everybody's kind of conditioned for that whole thing. We were trying to create a different culture at stations and it was centered around a five star hospitality culture. The challenge with that was really trying to make it consistent all the way around. And then the other thing is that the marketing person is kind of like we don't never, we don't ever really get the, the glory of the casino manager or the director of slots where they get to tout all of their revenue because everybody just assumed that marketing was magic, right? You just give away a car and the money comes in kind of thing, right? So I think the toughest part of that job, Jess, is that one, you have to do a lot of convincing beforehand. So you're dealing with, you're dealing with the, you're dealing with the customers, you're dealing with team members, you're dealing with other directors, you're dealing with the general manager. You're dealing with primarily with the finance guy who doesn't want you to spend any money, but he wants you to make all this stuff happen. So really it's this juggling act of pleasing many masters and making sure that you can accomplish your goals. So that was very difficult.

I get that everybody else saw me.

When I came out and we were giving away a car. So they said, oh, what a fun job. But I saw all these other things.

That went on in the background.

You say that, you start talking about the background Shondal and you're right. And Jeff will waiting on this, this. And I'm not going to try to take away what you said was most difficult or Jeff, but think about this team in the roles that you both have played and that I played as well. You live in three zones all the time. You're analyzing past events to see if you're going to do them in the future. You're forecasting future events to bring in revenues for now. And you're in the middle of special events at the same time. So you'll go to a meeting, you got two or three special events going on downstairs. You analyze into two or three past special events and you're forecasting to two, three, four or five future events all in the same time. I never knew what day it was because I'm in yesterday, today and tomorrow. All the time. Yesterday, today, tomorrow, yesterday, today, tomorrow. And they're all circling. So what was I talking about yesterday? Was that today or what was that tomorrow? So you literally, you literally are working and living in three different time zones because you reported up to a senior VP or a president and they're asking you tough, heavy questions about, well, didn't we do this last year? Yes. Well, what were the revenues? You need to know right away. So does that, can you relate to that too, Jeff?

Oh, absolutely, yeah. I mean, you know, in ours, it's somewhat similar. You know, you're dealing with employees, staff that need attention.

Yes.

You know, and you have to nurture them and you have to treat them all differently. They're not the same. They're people. But, you know, one person needs a pat on the back, the other one, you know, needs a little bit of a kick in order, in order to jump start them, to get them to develop themselves. You know, we can only assist in developing people and we try, which we, you know, we, we have a thing with, you know, in my company that if you stay, we would love you to stay. But if you go, we wish you the best, maybe you'll come back. But we want you to set the world on fire because we feel like we've had something to do with your development.

I love it. I love it, I love it. Well, I love that. Well, team, listen, a number of jobs, I did everything from busboy all the way up to executive director, casino marketing. I'm not going to get into the stuff in the middle so much so, so there was challenges on all of those different fronts. I would say that, oddly enough, the busboy was, was probably the most, one of the most rewarding because I was a different busboy when I, when I, I worked. I started out the Stardust, and when I came there, there's a lady looked like my grandmother. So I chummied up to her and I talked her into giving me an extra busboy smock because I thought they didn't really do them tight enough. So I would take one home and I wash it and iron it myself. So I look sharper than all the other busboys because they just, you know, every day you get a new one. You just get turned in. Well, I, I did my own and so I kept rotating my own like that. So I was able to get the waiters and so forth to fall in love with me because they could see that I Was on it. Right. So I got a lot of reward and accolade with that. So that was. Obviously looked like a tough job. Was actually one of the most rewarding jobs. The most difficult job for me, even executive director, where you're managing a team of 40 or 50 or 60. I'm managing somewhere between 25 and 60 million dollars in revenue a year. Okay. The most difficult for me was a blackjack dealer because back in the day, and I broke in at the Flamingo Hilton, which most people broke in downtown and at the. And at the Hilton's rules were one customer complaint, you're fired. Wow. You don't come in and talk about what happened. You don't get to come to the office, say, well, they said this. And I said, no, one customer complaint, you're fired. And the rule was dummy up and deal. Dummy up and deal. You keep your eyes on the layout and you deal. That's hard for a person that's. Has a desire to express himself. So when something happened like the floorman would like, I'm calling Change a hundred, nothing. Change 100, nothing. Now, if I turn my head away, I could lose my job because now my hand, my eyes aren't on the money on the layout. So change 100, nothing. And I look over and the foreman does this because. Because he's a dealer floorman. He wants to be a floor, but he's a dealer floorman. That's when you deal sometimes and you're on the floor sometimes. Now he thinks he's a badass because he's on the floor and he's going to exert his power. Instead of saying, go ahead, he's waiting for me to put myself in jeopardy, to look off the layoff, to get him to knock because I can't give the money until he says, okay, right. So I want to. I want to get in his face after that. So for the first six months of being a blackjack deal at the Flamingo Hilton, I went to the bathroom every single break. We got a break for the most part, once per hour, a 20 minute break, which really was 15 by the time he got upstairs. It's got a 15 minute break once per hour. And I cried every day on every break for six months. Wow. I cried because I couldn't say what I wanted to say. I couldn't stand up for myself. And that's hard for me. I got to say it. I got to say, what's up?

Yeah.

And so if I said, what's up? I'm going to get fired. So after about six months, I conditioned myself to deal with how it was. So that was. That was the most difficult for me. What do you think about.

You're right, Jess. But you know what, the challenge in being a young. Because I was a young Director, I was 28 years old and I think the challenge for me was that everybody else was twice my age.

Same here. Same here.

And the other challenge was everybody seemed to be evaluating you. And I think I've told. You've heard this before, Jeff hasn't. My general manager said, you know, Shondell, because, you know, I didn't think of it. I didn't think about anything about race or anything like that. He said, I just want you to know a lot of people are not upset about your race, they're upset about your age. You came in out of the military in a few short years being with us, you know, we've promoted you to director. But I. But he made. He did a great job of saying Shondel is here because of where he can take us from an innovation standpoint. Like, he was the first one that really thought that having diversity when it comes to youth and innovation. So similar to what some of the things Jeff was talking about earlier, it was like, even from a standpoint of entertainment, entertainment was geared towards 55 plus. And he's like, how do we get younger people to come? How do we get more excitement, more energy in the properties? Because you remember the old school, local casinos, everybody, everybody was a senior and that's what they, you know, and it pretty much got dead in the evening. So I think those are the things that were challenging is trying to bring innovation and new things to the table. With everybody else being twice my age, that was another thing. Big challenge.

Yeah, fair enough.

Now, now the only person twice your age is Jesse.

Tell you what, you.

You're the best looking 77 year old.

Well, thank. Thank you for those kind old remarks. I appreciate that. Sh. I told you we're going to dig this guy.

And when all my hair goes white, I'm going to shave my head.

I told you already. Look, I told you, I told you that. Well, we're talking about the good, the bad and the ugly. So in terms of the good, the bad and the ugly, what. Real quick, before I get into that, celebrities. Did you get an opportunity, Jeff, to serve celebrities? I know you probably have throughout your hospitality career.

Oh, yeah, there's. There's no question. But you know, I, we have, I mean, over the years at payments, you know, it was a pretty. It was a Hotbed for, you know, celebrities and, you know, in the local market, you know, been around for a long time. But, you know, I'm just. Myself and my staff were just. We're not. We're not starstruck. We've never been. We have more appreciation for people that have fought through tough situations and made a name for themselves doing it the right way and that kind of thing. So, you know, celebrity is a. It's a funny. It's a funny thing. You know, somebody can, you know, have a hit record or wind up a good actor or whatever, and suddenly they're. They're idolized and, you know, suddenly they're an expert on everything and all that. And I, you know, I. I've just always had more. More respect for people that have kind of come up, you know, kind of the hard way. You know, like. Like in our neighborhood, you know, a lot of my friends, you know, I grew up in a mixed neighborhood. I spent all my time on a basketball court, I think, watching. Watching these. These friends of mine. You threw a lot of adversity like you guys, you know, coming through it and becoming successful in their own way. So. So I, you know, I. I have to tell you that the whole celebrity thing, I, I've. They've been in our. I never go up to them. I don't go over to the table. I don't. I really don't acknowledge them. I don't. I don't see them as.

You mean beyond.

More important than anybody else.

I mean, you don't acknowledge them beyond their customers like other people customers. You do. You treat them as equal, as other customers. I'll be.

I'll be honest with you. When. When I walk into the restaurant and Marissa or Alex some, you know, the. The managers say, hey, you know, by the way, you know, Roseanne bars over there or, you know, the guys from custom Counter. I don't. I. I make it a point not to go over there. Yeah, I don't. I don't like the. I just don't like the kind of phony scene.

They're.

They're no more important than. Than when Jesse.

When Jesse and Lisa walk into payments. I got it. Fair enough. What. What about you? What about you, Shondell? What do you have?

No, my.

My.

My role was to deal with the celebrity, so it was a little bit different and, And, and, and interesting enough. You know, I don't really get as starstruck as well, but I do. I did spend a lot. You know, I paid attention to different habits of some of Those celebrities, like a James Brown for, for example, what I saw was how they prepared and what they did and all of that. So really it was like more watching what they did, paying attention to their writer, paying attention, you know, because I had to pay attention to all that kind of stuff as the marketing director because I was over entertainment as well. So I had a lot of celebrities come in the whispers, my favorite artist, Teddy Pendergrass. And what happens, Jess, I think is you go into that mode that you were just talking about. How, how, how is the event going to be analyzed? Are we going to get everything out on time? How. What's the guest experience going to be? It would be great to sit back and get autographs and selfies. In fact, I got accused a lot of my daughter, you know, Tiara. Tierra always got frustrated that I'm very focused. And the same thing happened with my first encounter with Barack Obama. Tierra told you, everybody's taking a picture. The back of my head talking to him. But I didn't have a chance to really take a selfie because I was focused on the agenda of what I was trying to do. So working in the, working in the casino industry, I think you get. So what'd you say? Like, you, you don't, you don't know whether you're coming or going. But I was so focused on what we had to get done and everything else that a lot of times meeting celebrities was kind of like this.

Well, I, I appreciate I'm a combination of both you and Jeff. Jeff, My mentality is exactly the same as yours. I'm not going to say anything because I would say exactly the way you did. I also, with Shondell, my responsibility was to have a lot of, of those celebrities, the, the most important, sensitive details of their lives are running through my fingers. Whether it was Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Muhammad Ali, you know, film. My two favorites that I would say would be Phil Mickelson. The, the golfer and Muhammad Ali were, were some of the most resonating instances. The rest I, I tried. I still treated like people in respect. But Muhammad Ali said something. I can't even say on air right now, what he said in my ear. I was sitting next to him and Leroy Neiman. Leroy Neiman, the famous artist. And he whispered something in my ear to let me know that even though he's the greatest of all time and people know him, he's just, he's just one of us. He said that, but he used the language that I can't use here because it would hurt Some people will be turned off by what he said, but when he said it gave me chili bumps down my body for, like, 15 minutes, I couldn't get. Because I couldn't believe someone of that stature would say. He basically said to me what you just said, but he said it in his language, and I didn't ask for it. And it was pretty. Pretty powerful. But so let's talk about just.

I think. I think, too, that, you know, you guys, you know, in the hotel industry, it's a little bit different, too. You know, celebrity is kind of a buzzword, and it's used for marketing, and it attracts other people. Somebody thinks that Muhammad Ali is going to be at a particular hotel or whatever. That actually attracts people.

Absolutely.

So I don't think it's a negative thing in a marketing sense like that, but it really doesn't work in a local restaurant.

Right.

It's like, you know, but they're just two different worlds.

No, but, you know, but you've been in both. The reason why I asked that is because you also were in hospitality. You also were in hotel. You are also in hotel casino. And I know that you served also. You had a different level, like Chandelle and I served at a different level. You were more on the food and beverage side when you were exposed to those celebrities, whereas Chandelle and I were on the. Bring them inside.

Yeah. So we were, like, working with Don Rickles and guys like that because they were. They were in the. Like at the Golden Nugget. And so being in Food and Beverage, we had to go and make sure that everything was fine. So we would deal with. He was a riot.

Oh, no. Don Rickles was ridiculous. I was actually. I worked for Jackie Baskow's talent agency when I was 16, and I was an artist. And so she sent me to on site with Don Rickles, and he was at the Sahara, and he was filming a show, and I was doing the cue cards, and he stopped in the middle of his thing because I couldn't see. When you're doing cue cards, you're blinded. You really can't see. And Don Rickel says, get those lights off that brother. Before he heads for the back of the wall in the middle of the program, because he saw me squinting like this. Don Rickles, he did a black joke in the middle of his program. Wasn't even in the joke. So it was everybody's turn with him.

There was no such thing as discrimination. No, everybody.

Oh, yes, he did.

You know, it's just like, so what's.

So what's the good, the bad and the ugly of the industry, Jeff, in your mind? Just Reader's Digest, Just a laser verse. I want to hear what you think. Good, bad and the ugly, Shondell and myself so that, so people listening can hear just a really brief perspective of the good, the bad and the ugly of hospitality.

Well, you know, the good, the good is enriching people's lives, developing staff, you know, teaching them life skills through, through the job, you know, and I always, when I talk to employees is, you know, I'm not explaining this to you to enrich the operation. It's, this is a skill you're going to take with you wherever you go. This is a training ground now. We're paying you to develop your skill set so that you can take it wherever you go, you know. And so the good, I think has a lot to do with employees. I would say that more so than customers. You know, we don't, we don't know all the customers, but we know all the employees and you know, we know, we know a little bit about their lives, you know, and so we, we take a hands on approach. We, we really care about the staff, you know, so that, that I think is, is the good, I think, you know, I think the bad is in Las Vegas is again dealing with our, our competition in the independent restaurant industry. We're dealing with the Strip as, as competitors, you know. And you know, that becomes very difficult because you know, it's, it's the, it's, it's, it's just, the dichotomy is just incredible between what they can offer and what we can offer. And so that's, that's kind of the bad. So we're at a little bit of a, you know, disadvantage. The ugly I think is the downward pressure on profits in restaurants, you know, and again, not, not to get into politics, that kind of thing but you know, Nevada leads all states in restaurant permanent restaurant closures. And you know, again, you don't know. I mean you, the, some of the legislation that's come down the pike has been very misleading, you know, like for instance, the minimum, the minimum wage. Well, the minimum, minimum wage right now is really only going to tip to people, you know. So for instance, if you, right now, if you, if you go to, indeed, and you look for, you look for a dishwashing position and you see one that's posted for payments, you're going to see that in around 13, $13 range. That's, that's the start. Okay. Nobody makes anywhere close to Minimum wage unless they're tipped. The problem is, is that when you're paying higher minimum wage every year, which July 1st, it's going to keep going up every year until it reaches $12. What you're really doing is you're penalizing the non tipped people, the cooks, the hostesses. Because when you're paying all that money to the people that are already making a ton of money in tips, and that's the only people that it's ever going to. How are you going to give a cook a raise who's back there for eight or 10 hours, you know, behind this hot grill, working at an incredible pace, burning themselves and just dealing with the elements, which is very tough. I just think that that's the. To me, that's the ugly. Because the injustice comes in that the hardest working people in the restaurant industry are making the least amount of money because the minimum wage elevations are going to the tipped people who are already. Some are. You know, I have, I have a friend that lives across the street, Mike. You know, there are nights he works on the strip. He could walk away with fifteen hundred dollars in tips. Fifteen hundred in tips, right. Well, in the local market too, there are times where, you know, they're making three to four hundred dollars a night on tips. They're the ones getting the, the increase in minimum wage.

Okay, fair enough.

The ugly is that the politicians have bamboozled the people and they're not helping the people that need it the most. You see what I mean? I would much rather see the person that's making $16 an hour cooking get to 17 or 18 or 19, rather than someone who's already making 60 or 70,000 to get to 80,000. Yeah, and that's, that's, that to me, that's the ugly part of the industry.

No, fair enough. That's, that's, that's an interesting perspective. I appreciate that. So Shondell, with Jeff giving that one. If you can do that in two minutes, let's share. If you can't, then I'll pass on my. I won't give my good, bad and the ugly. So we can end on time. But what's your good, the Bad and the Ugly Reader's Digest version.

It is the complexity of the business. The bad is the, the demand on being perfect, like you said with dealing. But the same thing in that space, when you don't do what you're supposed to do, or let's say you do everything you can do, you can still get eliminated or fired. The ugly is a lot of the. Days when, when you want to do everything you can for your employees and other people want to interject. So I say that other people don't understand, but they want to interject. It doesn't matter who it is. They don't understand the complexity of the business.

I like it. No, that's good. That's good. Very good. Well done, well done. Well, I'll do good, bad and the ugly as well. Start with the bad. The bad part. The bad part.

Sorry, we're out of time.

Yeah, no, we got, we got, we got two minutes. I'm looking at it. Nice try. The you, Mr. Smarty Pants. The bad. The bad part. The bad part. The bad part, I would say would be finding yourself in challenging situations where you're bringing your very, very best and it may not be good enough and has nothing to do with you and so it can cost you. So that would be the bad part. The ugly part is being asked to do things that are either immoral or against your value system or downright wrong. I won't say, I won't say that it's illegal, but just bordering that and being expected that you're going to do it and, and like it. I, I've been asked to do things from in hospitality that are unimaginable. They're act. In fact, let me just say this, triple X rated. I'll leave it at that. The good is, it is a phenomenal industry to learn people. If you stay in it long enough, you can learn so much about life and people's choices and the choices that you can make from the bottom to the top. And if you take those lessons and you can go out and use, enroll those lessons in your life. I believe that my hospitality industry outweighed all the college degrees I've earned. Not even close. So it's a learning ground to know people, to connect with people, to learn to engage and communicate and connect. That is a massive good part about the industry. The hospitality gives you that because you're vibing on so many different personalities and characters. So what do you think about that, Jeff? Close this out. What are your thoughts about the good, the bad and the ugly of all three of us?

I think you told Shonda he had two minutes, you just took four. That's what I think.

No, the time is 10, so I took a minute and a half. Smarty pants. Nice try.

No, you know what, Seriously, Jess, I, you know, I left the casino industry, the hotel industry. Remember I was at the Statler Hotel. I was at Golden Nugget, Treasure Island. I, coming from Ithaca, coming from the Statler Hotel, where everything was done the right way, where if you hired somebody that you knew you had to.

You.

You had to justify. You had to go through this whole.

If you hired.

If you didn't hire somebody, you had to justify why you didn't hire that person.

Right.

You know, things were really strict and, you know, to protect. To protect people. And then when I came to Las Vegas and was. Got into the hotel industry, I was like, the president has to do the second interview on the cocktail waitress.

Really?

Aren't they supposed to just interview vice presidents?

Right.

You know, and in some of the immoral stuff that you're talking about, I. I was there. I. I was there. And you know what? My conscience didn't allow me to stay in the industry. And I guess it depends on how much you're privy to. I was. I was. Because I was on. In the inner. You know, the inner. You know, the rooms where other people weren't allowed to be in. I just. I'm not built that way. You know what I mean? I just. I'm not, you know, I carry a different moral standard, I guess, than some people. And I didn't like being around that type of culture, that part of it. I was. I saw more than I. Than I wanted to see. And I always vowed that if I could run my own company and treat people the way that they should be treated, that I would be a much happier person. And since I did leave that industry, my life has been extremely gratifying. I've been able to touch employees in a way that makes me so proud of them and to watch them develop and, you know, not hold anything over that. There's no, you know, we don't hold anything over your head.

There's no.

You know, it's like we have a thing in our company, too, with transparency, is that they're all told if. When a new employee comes in, if you don't get the answer you're looking for, go to a supervisor. If they don't give you the answer, go to the location manager. If they don't give you the answer, call Jeff. And there will be no retribution, there will be no retaliation. They have every right to go right to me if they're not satisfied with something. And my managers know that they better not ever retaliate for somebody asking a question or coming to me for clarification. So it's complete transparency. And that was lacking in the hotel industry here.

Then.

Now, I don't know. I've been out of it for 20 years. It's a lot better.

Right. But here's the thing. You've got that as a backdrop. You wouldn't. You likely would not appreciate to the degree that you do if you didn't see the other side. True. So. So your appreciation is grand because of your exposure in your circle. So, well, well done, gentlemen. You two are two amazing gentlemen. You both have moxie as far as I'm concerned. Appreciate connecting with you both. I always learn from both of you all the time. When I'm around both of you, I learn from you all the time. And I value. That's one of my. One of my very favorite things to do. And so with programs like this, we always sing to bring people on that are awesome, like you, Jeff, and bring your very best. And Shondell is always stepping in and bringing some of his very, very best stories and anecdotes and recommendations and sort of those sort of things. But there's a way that we always like to close our program that ties all this together. And it's. And it's all about one major thing, Jeff. And we'll close our program from this statement forward by saying this. Shonda will help me. It's all about how you leave them feeling. That's it. So, team, have a great rest of the day. Can't wait to eat at your restaurant. Can't wait to hook up with Shondell. You guys go out there, break some bread, connect, and let's do some fun stuff.

Absolutely. Lunch at Payments.

Yes. That's a good idea. All right, Take care. Thank you.

Thank you.

Sa. Sam.