Psychological Effects of Growing Up Without A Father

Foreign. To our Brothers in Conversation podcast, powered by Jesse and Shondell. Shondell, you are from Bed Stuy do or Die Brooklyn.

That little town.

That's a little town. That's nothing like Hawthorne, Nevada. Population 5,000 cats and dogs. Welcome to our conversation podcast, powered by Jesse Ann Johndell. That's who you are.

That's why I am.

Thursday, February 6, 202020 Episode 18 Yep. And we have a special guest with us. This is an unbelievable guy with so many attributes to his name. This is vital. Germaine.

Hi, guys. Hi, guys.

Shondell, that's my man.

Yep. Yep. Say hey, hey to the folks out there, everybody.

It's going to be intense. It's going to be enlightening. It's going to be refreshing. Just stay tuned.

And off the wall.

And off the wall.

Yes. And so here we are with Vinales, author, mindset coach and president of Inc. Engage Teams 360. Right. Tell us a little bit about that before we jump into our program.

So that's the business side of what I do. And literally under that umbrella is where I empower organizations. I go in and inspire cultural transformations because I believe that leadership is going through a shift and a lot of companies are actually suffering. So basically, it's the core of my personal message, just branded and designed for organizations.

Do you believe that leadership is going through a shift?

Totally.

I agree.

You know what I love about that?

I agree.

John Maxwell has a book called Leadership.

Oh, Leaders Shift. That's a good one.

You said leaders are going through a shift. Yes, I agree. This book by John Maxwell, Leadership.

Yeah.

Amazing. Yeah, amazing.

I got one too. But I would cuss leader. Oh, I wouldn't do that. I'm a Christian.

Yes, I actually think you would. Yeah, but you mean.

Well, I'm not accustomed to.

Now I hear someone else's sounds. Can we turn down someone's sound?

I think it might be me.

Oh, okay.

That way we. Yeah, we don't. We don't need to hear ourselves twice, right?

No, we do not.

No.

So very good. So I love the fact that you're doing. I love what you said about that, and I totally agree. And we're going to go back and forth between that, but our topic today is psychological effects of growing up without a father.

Yeah.

Psychological effects of growing up without a.

Father, which has an impact on leadership. Tons of tons of impact on leadership. There's a total connect, man. Oh, my God.

Leadership. It has an impact on faith, family.

Yes.

It has an impact on your current and your future.

Yeah.

It has an impact on how you do what you do.

Yeah.

And, you know, a lot of times people don't even realize that there's stuff that their baggage or their trouble, their challenge, the things that. That. That hold them down.

Yeah.

They might not ever connect that that was the impetus.

Yeah.

They may never even commit. If you don't know what you don't know, it's really hard to correct it.

Well, awareness is always the first step in terms of transforming into a better version of yourself. But, yes, if you aren't aware and you don't know what you don't know.

You need help 100%. So we're going to deep dive on this. We're going to dig into this, and we're going to unpack some things. Before we do, let's talk about some special events in case, because all of us do a lot of connecting, facilitating, presenting and so forth between the three of us. Shondell, for you. What do you have coming up that you want to share with this audience that they may want to attend or tune into?

You know, I don't have a whole lot coming up right away.

Okay.

I know that I'm doing a couple of things. One of the things that I'm working on is, you know, Obsidian and Neon featured me last year as one of the successful black Americans in Las Vegas. I didn't either. I told him that I didn't know you were black. How did you not know that?

Did you know you were black?

I kind of actually.

I kind of really don't show. Black.

No, he doesn't.

No.

That's what I'm trying to tell you. I tried to explain to them, you know, I don't know where I'm used to.

Tell me.

That's right.

Can't you sound more black than that?

That's right.

I'm like, yeah, you got five other.

Very black children and they can help you out. Yeah, that's right. They know how to talk. Jive.

Sorry, sorry, Is that what it's called? Jive?

Yeah, yeah.

I'm a black European.

I don't know, actually.

No, I am actually the consumer African American. Because I was actually born in Africa.

Right on.

And I am American.

Right on. Where in Africa?

I was born in what used to be called the Belgian Congo. Most of you might remember Zaire.

Yeah, yeah.

Rumble in the Jungle.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Zaire.

That's where I get it.

That's my. That's my country.

Get out.

I am African American, man.

I love you.

African American.

Yes.

You're the first legit African American I ever met.

Thank you very much.

Other people call themselves. But you are it the real brother, right?

I am the real.

The real brother. Original.

Original.

No, they just call me vital.

Original. Vital. I'm with you.

So this is really cool. So give us. I know. Listen, folks, if you're listening, we'll get into our subject, but I want to hear just a tiny bit about. So you were born. How long did you live there?

I will give you a very complex story. So condensed version. Ultimately, I am a multifaceted, multi layered, culturally diverse person. I'm a Belgian national.

Oh, my God.

British accent, Right. Born in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Got to live the American dream by way of a French Canadian circus. So where this ties into in terms of culture, my father is Caucasian, blonde hair, blue eyes. My mother is African. I was born in the Congo at the midst of a civil war. So imagine this. The blacks, the natives, are trying to kill my father because he's white. Wangu.

They were.

He's white. They're trying to kill him.

Yeah.

You've got the Belgian military who are trying to kill my mother because she's black. Wow.

Born a crime.

Born comedian. Trevor Noah.

Born. You live that life.

I live that.

Wow.

And guess what? We're related. Shake my hand. Oh. Because your mother, your father was blonde hair, blue eyes. Yes, My wife was blonde with green eyes. So we're related.

Yes, we are.

Yes, we are.

Right.

But my.

But my.

I think my mother in law am I. Is my mother in law's eye. Her eyes. Blue, Brown, Brown, Brown.

Okay.

I was gonna lie.

Pull that in.

Yeah.

Because she might be listening. And so I'll get it wrong. Yeah, but no, what you're talking about, you know, I say the same.

This dude is diversity all in itself.

No, he's way diverse.

I mean, I'm more and more trying to bring that message because I think I'm with you. Corporate America does need. And, you know, I embody that mindset.

Oh, my gosh.

But this is what it comes down to is that because I've experienced these different, culturally diverse things, I can relate to Africans. I can relate to Caucasians.

Yeah.

I am both black and both white. The yin.

Can you relate to people from Brooklyn? No, that's a whole different world, man. I'm telling you. Blacks in Brooklyn, Jesus, bro.

That's a culture.

That's a whole different culture thing. But I'll take you to my hood. You're lying.

Say we're all living the same life.

That's Right. We are.

We are. And I really are. I say that we are all one people.

Yeah.

You are a perfect representation.

Absolutely.

All one.

All one people.

So I like to view myself as. People ask me, well, then, what do you ultimately relate to? And I. I will be honest. I don't view myself as black. I don't view myself as white. I am a citizen of the world.

Yeah.

It's poetic. It's romantic, but that's the way I view life.

Yeah.

I don't fit into a specific big box. I don't want to be labeled.

Yeah.

I'm a citizen of the world.

And you know why you and I get along so well? I know. Shantella, weigh in on this Is because I don't consider myself a black person.

Yeah.

I can. I consider myself a person.

Yeah.

And then I talk about my different distinctions.

Yeah.

Black is one of them.

Yes.

Man is one of them. Yeah. Writer, author is one of them. You know. You know, the citizen is, you know, so forth and so on. There's a. There's a melting pot of things. But. But I consider myself a person first.

Well, and I'll tell you where it comes from for me. My father actually clarified it for me many years ago, and he said, you know what? Actually, if Africa is the birthplace of man, then guess what? Everybody comes from us.

We're all one people.

We're all one people. So people don't like to hear that. They're like, well, how do you define being black? And I said, well, you. You define it by saying, if you're talking about Africa, you're talking about humanity. So that's who we're part of. Right. And that's why I believe sometimes we have greater gifts and greater talents that people can't explain. And they're saying, well, how did you get that? And how did you get that, Shawndell? Did you go to Toastmasters for 10 years to do this and do that? Well, sometimes you grow up. And for us, you know, I grew up in church, and we're just talking. We're just singing, we're just praising. We're expressing, learning scripture. So things already come to us sort of naturally. Right.

When you say that, you're talking about. Because of the diverse upbringing, you weren't just raised in one area. You were raised in different pockets of those areas.

And not only that, but, you know, I. I also feel blessed that my mother was focused on cultural development, even though she was a school teacher and we were in a predominantly black neighborhood. She said, your. Your greatest gift will Be able to will when you can communicate with the world.

That woman, his mother. Oh, my God.

Gave me children.

His mother. I don't even think she knew how powerful that was, especially to a young man growing up in a predominantly black area in New York. That was huge. Because I believe that our ability to communicate is really where we blossom in life.

Absolutely.

I believe that even as speakers. As speakers, you don't get up on the stage. I know you. I've watched you. I've seen. You don't get up on stage to impress people. You don't get up on stage to impress people. You both are really down to earth people. I've heard you speak, and I've heard you speak. I've listened to you, and your speaking style pulls people in. I've heard it said this way. Speak to express, not to impress, Right?

Yes.

Right.

There's an expression designed, custom fit for that audience.

But I think that also ties into what's the intention of why we get up and communicate. So there are some people who. It's all about them.

Listen to me.

Look at me. Because I, you know, I know what I want to talk about, and they are there for their own benefit.

Right.

Whereas I believe, from what I've seen of you, I'm learning about you, especially if you. Your background is sort of church. You are there to give to the community. So it depends the intention of the communication. Are you there for the benefit of the audience, or are you there to have your ego stroked?

Yes, I check my ego at the door before I leave home.

Yeah.

It doesn't even get in the car.

Yeah.

It doesn't go with me because it's not about me.

Yeah. And, you know, I struggled at my last speaking event. The mindset of success.

Tell me why you struggle.

Well, because there was something I didn't really want to share, and I talked to Dinesha, who was producing the event on stage, because I. I wrote it, and she's like, well, why would you take this out if you wrote it? And really.

Because it was.

She said, well, who are you doing it for? Are you doing it for you, or are you doing it for the audience?

Right.

So I had to go back and reinsert it, and it was sharing the. The molestation at 12 years old.

So that was the thing.

That's why I was so emotional when I. When I actually had to say it. And I practice it now.

Over and over, you talked about the molestation. Is this something that you personally experienced?

Yes. And it had never shared, and then.

I never Shared publicly. Publicly.

Now, this is what. So I share some very dark personal shadows. And what I've learned is, over the years, in the very beginning, it was cathartic for me. And then over time, people started saying, vital, you need to share this with the world. Here's the thing. The amount of people who have been molested, they feel isolated. They feel like shame and guilt that they can't share. So your courage, your vulnerability now empowers them because. So you almost have a. There are two ways to address it. I believe you have this horrible experience. You can keep it to yourself, and you can fight and live with your demons, or you can be very vulnerable and share that and let people know, first of all, I'm not alone. There are people out there who have experienced it. So actually, you are being very thoughtful of the audience to share your demons, your darkest moments, to empower others.

That's what Dinesha said. That's what Dinesha said.

You're spot on. Because here's the thing. At this point in your life, it's likely not plaguing you to the degree that Sharon is going to be therapeutic for you.

No.

You likely have worked through it. All of that. Not saying it has some effect on you, but you've risen well above it. So you clearly wouldn't be doing it from a personal perspective.

Exactly.

Personal story.

Right.

But you know what people loved. When people look at you, they would never guess that you went through that.

Right. No, that's. That's exactly. You see what I'm saying? And what's interesting is that the way it was done is not typical of what people think molestation is. Right.

Right.

So you know how you always have this childhood here, like the older guy who's cool with you and showing you the ropes around the neighborhood, but then he thought it was his job to help me deal with my virginity at 12 years old.

Right. Fair enough. So.

So that was a different perspective.

Yeah.

It wasn't somebody taking you in a room, and, you know, it was. It was him introducing me to his older cousin and kind of, you know, bringing it together. But I. At that time, based on my view and my understanding what molestation was, I didn't think it was molestation. I thought, you know, and then later on, I figured out or learned that that had an impact on.

It's. It's molestation. It's abuse.

Right.

It's.

Right.

It's horrific.

Right. Which. Which. Which brings us back to the psychological effects of growing up with the father. Thank you for sharing that again. So I'm going to raise a couple points here that I've drawn and let's. Let's spin off of the. Oh, we didn't finish. Sorry, we get sidetracked.

Well, I. I don't really have many, but I do want to. I do want to tout your end because I think the Breakthrough Success breakfast on Thursday, next week, next Thursday, on February 13th that you and Lisa are doing at the Chamber, I think that is paramount to what we're talking about right now. Self actualization, self awareness, understanding who you are is the first start to all of these discoveries, if you will. So I think that's one of the most important events that I would love to promote.

No, that's cool. I appreciate that we're going to. At least I'm going to reveal the three secrets in that. In that piece that's going to really help people out in a great way. The Communication for Leadership Success workshop is what we're calling that for that breakthrough Breakthrough breakfast. And that's actually going to be a bit of a teaser to give them something they can actually use. And then that's going to set up, set us up for a May 9 workshop, which is the Communication for Leadership Success. And that's going to be a full day program.

So please sign up on Eventbrite. Right. Because you got like limited space. So sign up on Eventbrite for that. For the first one. Yes.

And that one is free.

That one is free.

Okay.

Yeah. So that one is free. So make sure that on February 13th. February 13th at the Chamber Urban Chamber.

And May 9th will be a paid event. So going to be a full day.

Yeah.

Workshop that they're going to walk away with. Our last one in October of amazing. It was really, really exciting. People walk away with some great gifts. So those are things that we have on board. Coming. We have a few others, but that one is huge. We have snc, which is Sierra Nevada Corporation in Reno. We get to do a great leadership and communication workshop for them.

Cool.

And Sparks, Nevada. Yeah. Flying into Reno to do that. What's going on in your world?

You talked about the subject of communication. I just happened to have completed my online training course for communication. So that is now literally. Thank you. Because you know, it's a lot of work.

Let me do the proper respect.

Thank you.

He completed a non life course. That is cool. Good stuff. He did it solo. She had a team of Lisa. Oh, Shafer. Brilliant woman. Lisa Farrell. Brilliant woman. Jesse Farrell. I do okay. But we put over 2,100 hours last year between the three of us designing our online course called the Breakthrough Success. I'll tell you like this. It's no joke. It's not for the fainted heart.

A lot of hard work, man.

You don't get to give up your day job while you're doing that.

So tell us, thank you for bringing that to the forefront because it is a lot of work. And, you know, the reward, hopefully, will be that it will bring a lot of value to people who chime in. So it is available. It's called the Art of Communication. So in a nutshell, we all know this, that communication is the foundation of either success or failure in life, whether it's professional.

Agreed.

And specifically personal.

Agree.

I think I recently read a quote that the biggest distance between two people is misunderstanding.

Yep.

That's a fact. That's a fact.

And so in this online course, I'm trying to break down some key elements. What are some basic fundamentals that you need to have effective communication to be clearly understood, to really get your message across in the way that is, not only are people able to understand it, but they can receive it.

What makes your online course and this communication with city design unique and different from many others, if not all of us?

Well, not to brag, but I have this absolutely charming British accent.

Come on.

Hey, I'm trying to steal it. You kidding me? Arlene, watch out, baby.

Well, that you do have.

That you do have.

I think a part of the differentiator is I, because of my going back to the cultural diversity. So I bring elements that aren't necessarily fixed to women, African Americans, Europeans. I bring these. This multitude of perceptions that enrich people's ways of communication. It actually opens their. Their view of how they can communicate. So there's that factor. I've also tried to design it in a way that it's not this boring. Death by PowerPoint. A lot of keynotes, online trainings.

Right.

Boring. So there is sort of an engaging entertainment element to it without taking away from the essence of what I'm trying to share.

Right, yeah.

On that video, on the video campaigns, you're talking to them.

I'm talking to them. I love it.

Good stuff.

I love that.

So let's jump into this thing then. So the psychological effects of growing up without a father. Let me read this key point you guys share. Depression, suicide, eating disorders, obesity and its effects, early sexual activity, addiction formation, and difficulty building and holding on to loving relationships are all side effects of an absent father. I've got a few points. Let's spin off of that. What are your thoughts about that?

Unfortunately, you have summed up the impact of what happens when the father is absent. And unfortunately for myself, not all of these things, but I have experienced, experienced many of these things.

Okay.

And it's painful.

So you said with the father. Just tell us for you. Because for you, you, you've experienced it first and you just read it or connect or marry someone with it. It happened in your space.

Yes. Unfortunately, tying into Shondell your experience. My father was my molester, sexually abusive father as a child. So for me that experience had a very.

That with the whole family or just you?

Unfortunately, with the whole family at different times in different ways. So he's a repeat offender. It's a sickness. And so this is the thing about experiencing this is that throughout the rest of your life you are trying to overcome and fight that self loathing, that shame, that guilt. And it you mentioned about relationships. It heavily impacts your relationships because how do you trust anybody?

I knew that was coming.

Yeah, but think about it.

Really mess with your trust because your foundation.

Yes.

Was from a place where that's where we're supposed to be loved and cared for, nurtured. And there's a mutual protector. Right.

That's your protector.

But. But you've been violated by that. Okay. The rest of the world must definitely be against you.

Yeah.

That's one of the biggest hurdles that you try to overcome. And I will be totally vulnerable. It. I, I'm very aware of it. That it impacts my relationship.

I was going to say you say impact. I'll bet you it has sabotaged some relationships.

I didn't want to go there, but unfortunately that word is actually more.

No, not on purpose.

I self sabotage relationships because it's almost this psychological thing that happens where. Before you screw me.

Yeah, I'm going to get out.

I'm going to get out or I'm going to put up this blockade where you can't get in and abuse me in any capacity.

And you know what's interesting? So you, you see it from that side, right? See, and they know my dad is my rock, my hero, my, my dude. Right. He and you know, me and him had such a tight relationship. Everything I get, everything I feel, I can't imagine him violating that trust. I can't imagine him taking away that.

And you say that to say what?

Because. Because I think when he's saying that part of the relationship, that's the opposite. That's the direct opposite of why I do what I do with Arlene. And with my kids and my grandkids, I. I go the other way. I'm trying. Like. Like he's saying, I put up a wall. I'm actually opening up, you know, and.

You keep the wall down.

I keep the wall down. Right. Yeah. I can't imagine sitting in that place where it's like, my father. Like me and my dad. There's no. You know what I'm saying?

Well, all news that you've experienced, you said. I love the metaphor. Your father is your rock.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's what a healthy father is supposed to bring right to the table. Now, what my father did is extreme, but just time back into the theme.

Yeah.

Even just the fact that the father is absent, there now is no rock.

Yes. That's a fact.

Here's the part that I'm challenged with, that I get one level, but I think you get on a much deeper level because that has happened to you. It's unfortunate that it impacts your ability to stay connected in loving relationships. Yeah.

Well, you just thought.

You would think that a loving relationship will come along and make you. Oh, good, here it is. But because of the psychological damage.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Unless you kind of can figure out a way to work that out, work through that and realize. And almost maybe this could be wrong. You correct me. Almost, maybe compartment. Get it worked out and say, okay, I'm gonna compartmentalize. Put it in a box. I'm gonna put it in that box and put a lock on that box. Because that does not serve me to live from that space.

But logically, it's easy to say that.

I know, but not right.

You are in the trenches of life and you're dealing with all these basic human emotions.

Right.

Some of them are beyond logic. They. They are just spontaneous and you're not even aware of it. So for me, the journey the last 10 years, because I became aware of it, I kind of look back at my relationships and thought like, wow, what's the common. What's the common factor here? Vital.

It's you.

It's a horrible awakening. But I was the common thread. And then that's when the work begins and things have improved considerably. But you've got to, as an individual, for those of you out there who have experienced an absentee father.

Yeah.

You are going to have to look into yourself and get rid of the denial, get rid of the shame, and just look in the mirror and be like, okay, there's an issue here that you've got to fix.

Right.

And from that awareness now, you have to start digging deep and start taking those layers away and work at what do I need to do? You can't get rid of the scars. The trauma is always there.

Right.

But you've got to find ways. Okay, how do I live with these?

Right.

Well, you make a good point, too. That's really huge. Huge point. And also, when you talk about an absentee father, that doesn't always mean that he was never in your life because you met him.

Right, Right.

Passed away or he left home. Left the family, whatever. He may be right there in the home and still be absent. Yes. Which I think is even harder. Yeah. Because he's right there, but he's not present, not connected. He doesn't, you know, whatever. Whatever's going on in that dynamic. So that's really good. Let me read the next point. Let's spin off of that next point. Says growing up without a father permanently alters the structure of the brain, which you just teased on, and produce children who are more aggressive and angry. Scientists have warned us of this.

Yeah. Well, you know, and then, you know, going back again, Jess, I think we said this a million times, and I think this is one of the biggest challenges in the African American community, because when they keep talking about violent offenders in prison and they're saying they're 60% of the black men are going to prison.

Right.

The issue is this. If a third of the U.S. households are fatherless. Right. But it goes to 80% in the African American community in the U.S. what effect does that have on these violent crimes, on these. On these psychological impacts, on these referrals in school? What effect does that have? So you can. You have to get to the root of the problem. So if you have a lot of being fatherless households, and so that's a.

Big piece when you say we have to get to the root of the problem.

Yeah.

And that being fatherless household.

Yes.

What do we do when we get to it? Do what now what?

Well, there are several steps, and it's one of these maze answers, like, where do you begin this fixing journey? Ultimately, it comes down to the individual. Because as individuals, no matter how tough.

Life is a sliding scale. It's not always going to be a card. You're not going to put a cookie cutter plug in.

Yes.

Right.

Okay.

I'm not a father, so it's easy for me to say, but I can only imagine going back to your father being the rock. It starts with personal accountability.

Yes.

I love what you said. That even that awareness, personal accountability is part of that first Awareness.

Big time. Big time.

So if you are a father and you've gone through hell and you are a part of that statistic that is destined to end up in jail by default, that you are father, you've got to do whatever it takes. I've got to shift my level of responsibility, my level of commitment to my kid, my daughter, my son, and that now has to be my priority in life. That's where it starts. Individual accountability. Because it's easy to play the. I've done it to myself. Where you play the victim.

Yeah.

But because of my childhood, I can't help doing this. That is a part of the equation.

You played the victim. Not on purpose, probably almost on a default.

That's exactly it. To shift that default, you've got to acknowledge I am a part of the solution.

Yeah.

Like. Like Shawn said, what is the root of the problem?

But I'm gonna tell you where the challenge is. I'm gonna go back to that challenge.

Again.

That fall under this. So now what is the biggest challenge for young people? They want peer. Is peer pressure, Right?

Yeah.

So again, like I told my son, if only two of you in a room of 10 are actually experiencing good fathers and the other eight have these stories of abandonment and all of that, what happens to those other two? Or at least one of them, Right? They start wanting to fit in. So they don't want this. They do not want to say, oh, I got a great father. And because I asked this question of my son one time, he said, well, dad. Dad, I don't really want to be that way. I don't want to be. I couldn't figure out why, when he.

Says, I don't want to be that.

Way, he doesn't want to be.

Away.

From all of his friends.

Right?

He. He doesn't want to be different.

Right?

Right. Because. Because here it is. Remember, Jess, I did it different. I was a teenage father. I took care of my kids.

Right.

I was a single father. I took care of my kids. He does not want to be that per. I don't want to be like you, dad. Because that's a lonely space. Right? It's a very lonely space. So to break that cycle is not just the ones that the eight. The eight that are out there that, you know, haven't had that experience, but that one individual who doesn't want to be alone and out of that space. So you have to have this paradigm shift of. Of major.

I love your point about being accepted in that whole fitting in thing. I think that's really Key think about this. And another thing you said is on the psychological side of things, what I've read and to try of psychology is, is people say this. The best psychologists say this. We are often in one of four of these different dispositions. John named one of them. I am not my father.

Right. Yeah.

That's your son. Yep. Or I am my father. Yeah. Or I am not my mother.

Yeah.

Or I am my mother.

Yeah.

We've fallen one of those distinctions. We don't even a lot of times realize we've elected that.

Yeah.

And if. If that's true, what are we leaving on the table by making these hard dispositions of, oh, like, oh, I'm my father. Doing everything you can to be like your father. Yeah. Or doing everything to be not like your father.

Right.

You know what I mean? So don't you think that those psychological choices can impact the quality of our lives? And we don't even know it, but that's exactly it.

They are choices. They're really tough choices, but they are choices. Now we can. To go back to the question of how do we fix that? So as a child growing up in this horrible environment, there were a couple of factors that saved me or helped me. I'm not going to say saved me, but help me.

Yes.

And this is where the community can really step in. So I had one or two role models, teachers at school.

Where were you at when you had these role models?

So this is now. I was raised very Catholic in a Catholic school.

Okay.

So you live in. I grew up in a home as well. To add to the. The fact that my father was. I grew up in a home like an orphanage. Now, my saving grace was I'm no longer a practicing Catholic, but the structure of Catholicism. So whatever that if you believe in God and leverage your community, your church, leverage the groups that bring you a sense of belonging, a sense of security. But the key factor is if you are in a position where you know a child who has suffered, experienced neglect from an absent father, you can save that kid's life by becoming a role model or a mentor.

I agree.

Those partnership.

Create a partnership.

Yes.

They can latch on to that.

Yes.

Oh, you gave me chills.

It doesn't replace the father, but, boy, is it a good substitute.

It is.

Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. You just gave me so many. That was. That was so extremely well said.

Yeah.

That was great.

I believe that we are all. You've heard you said that, that it takes a village to raise a child.

Yes.

I believe that it takes a Global village to raise a child these days, it can go beyond the boundaries and the guide, the guidelines of where you live.

Yeah.

I was absolutely extremely fortunate to fall in the condition of what you said. I grew up in my mother and father. I grew up in the home.

Yeah.

Although they battled a great deal when I was a kid, they fought a lot. That's what I remember a lot about their relationship. I remember more about their fighting than I do about their loving one another. I'm not saying they didn't love one another.

Right.

And they didn't just demonstrate it on my life.

Right.

But I knew that my home wasn't the only place for me to learn. So I was influenced by the Del Porto family. I was influenced by the Blunt family. I was influenced by the Essen Price. I was influenced by the Ludwigs. Donald Ludwig, my eighth grade art teacher. If it wasn't her, I never would have gone to the University of the Las Vegas because she allowed me to walk through the desert, several miles through the desert every day, anytime I wanted to. And she would critique my artwork. She never turned me away, not once. She never said, well, you know, I got dinner on the stove. No, she always looked at my stuff and whatever. So that was an influence. She said, to be a surprise. She's my fourth grade teacher. She and I grew up in a predominantly white environment. And she, Years later, about 35 years later, I asked her, what.

Why did.

You told me you always knew I was going to be somebody? I go, how could you know that about a fourth grader?

Right.

She says, because you're the only kid I've ever experienced before you and after you, that would stay after school, after getting a 98 on the test to learn what two questions you missed and how. She said, dad told me, because most people that get A's, they don't. They're done. Yeah, right. But that kind of influence.

Yep.

Is that's how I. I grew up with that.

And I could tell you, even as you have both parents.

Yes.

And I had my father and my mother. And my mother was a devout Christian.

Still is.

Evangelist Newsom. You want to see a shout and look on. Look on YouTube, man. She went viral one time. Everybody called me up. I see your mother. I'm like, where? She's not even on social media. But. But I tell you, the one thing is that even with both parents, you need those people. Right. And I had Michael Collins. That was the person who actually showed me how to run a business at 14 years old. So he. He helped me understand like things that no other kid was thinking about. I think most kids wanted to do basketball, like growing up and hip hop was new and so there was rap music and break dancing, all that. In the New York in the early 80s, I would. I was enamored by business. I was blown away by marketing communication. I went to the High School of Communication Arts early on. So that was my.

What attracted to you that.

You know, I think it was the. The psychology of it all and interested.

In the psychology of. You didn't. You probably didn't call it that. It was just the draw for you.

Yeah, it was the draw because, you know David Ogilvy, who wrote the book on advertising, that his book was fairly new. It was in the 70s, but he was the guy who everybody takes a lot of credit for branding and marketing and communication today. He was the guy from, you know, from the British who. Who changed the way we did advertising, brought it to an emotion. Hey, I love my Rolls Royce. I feel silky and smooth with my Dove soap. He was the one that actually revolutionized that because most of the time people were selling products.

Right.

They were not marketing them. Yeah.

That book influenced.

That book influenced.

Let's do a little bit of a diversion. Let's do a little bit of diversion for the. We'll get back on point on this. But you talk about books being. Being something that opens up something in you. Yes. One book called Action Strategies for Personal Achievement by Brian Tracy changed my whole world completely. After a devastating loss in. In Corporate America, I decided I was going to discover my purpose. I had no clue on how to do that. I picked up this book and the first two is in the first, first chapter, he said that if you will read an hour a day in your field of study, you can become an expert in that field. I'm thinking I didn't know I could do something different.

Yeah.

He says if you do not know what your best gifts and talents are, ask 10 to 15 people that know you well, what are your best gifts and talents? They know, even if you don't think I did those two things. And that's what helped me embark upon a professional speaking life coaching, executive coaching career path that I never even know I had the skills for.

Right.

Let alone to go get the training, all that. But the books, they say, you know, the books, you will be the same person you are 10 years from today. Except for the books that you read, the people that you meet.

Yeah.

And what you do about your life experience. So let's talk about books really quickly. So we've got several authors here sitting at the table. Real quickly, the book that you bought, the 12 steps. 12 steps. Tell us real quick.

So that comes off of like what I was just talking about, like on advertising with David Ogilvy, my experience with Station Casinos. Station Casinos to date has the best loyalty program, bar none. I mean, just took a small family owned casino business and just morphed into this, you know, mega casino operation. And they did it all through relationships. So my, my, my not theory, but reality is that people want to have relationships. I. I rewrote the word real. Real relationships. They want to have relationships with products, services. All the time. I do it all day.

Your MSG program.

That's right.

You're making stuff up.

Yeah, all the time.

Another word for the expert.

We're gonna use.

No, you use an msu.

Hey, you know what? I'll use the other word. I'm not Catholic, so I don't actually have to sit back and do a confessional. That's right. That's right.

So.

So I tell you the biggest. That's right. I know the whole thing. Yeah. He would have smite me down a long time ago, brother. Excuse me, but the, the big piece is that the, the relationship that people have with products and services and brands is an emotion. So that's what the 12 steps of marketing it talks about. First, you have to understand who you are as a product, service, or brand. Then you have to make sure that your unique abilities and your unique talents fit a problem and solves a problem for a group of people who then become loyal customers.

Very nice.

I call loyal brand champions.

Very nice. I like it.

So I think I need to read your book.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, Very good.

Why not?

You said it. Because it's.

I can find it on Amazon. Yes, okay.

Yes, absolutely.

And Vital has written. Was it four books or more?

Four. Shondell. Not to brag. I wrote four books.

Oh, no, I'm good. I raised four kids.

The tal scene with Flying without a net.

Yes.

First of Fly without a two point. First off, Flying without a Net, then Flying without a net. 2.0.

Yeah.

Tell me the difference between the two. Why did you write these books?

So this ties into this topic that.

We'Re talking about right here.

So Flying without a Net is about the journey of overcoming the abuse, the self, the self loathing, the doubt.

That's good.

Flying without a Net. And the metaphor is it ties into my experience with Cirque du Soleil as an acrobat. So that the metaphor is in life, you Take risks.

Wow. Right.

You jump and pursue your dream even if you don't have wings. And you've got to believe that your wings are going to emerge before you hit the ground.

Wow.

So there's an element of self belief, regardless of all the self trust, all those things, that's what that's about. And like I said, you get some insight into the Cirque du soleil process. The 2.0 is simply the sequel.

Okay, fair enough. Got it.

So that gets more into vital, the adult. Now, how do you translate those experiences to become successful as a human being?

Because it doesn't go away. That's what people need to understand. It doesn't go away.

You just learn to navigate it and actually leverage it.

Right, there you go. I like that.

So now came the shift. I became a corporate keynote speaker. And I wanted to take my Cirque du Soleil experience in terms of what is that mindset that drives excellence, that drives extraordinary performance, that drives innovation, adapting to different markets? It's a business book. It's about culture. Even though it's a business book, some of the actionable tools in there are very relevant to personal life because in life we have to continually adapt.

Yes.

Nice.

I love it.

Innovation, mindset.

Three simple steps. Wealthy and happy living.

Yes. That's the most recent book. It's a very sort of innocent, childlike story. You can read. Read it in 20 minutes. It's just these three basic principles that will hopefully empower you and inspire you to live a happier, wealthier.

That's good stuff. That's good stuff.

Very nice. Well, you know, this is really good because the first time. And we'll get back on point because.

We'Re going to run out of time.

But I definitely want to get back on our. On our title for today. When I first sat down to write a book, I did it for all the wrong reasons. I did it. I'll just name one of them is because as a speaker and as a coach, I'm supposed to have a book. I sat down, I wrote that start to write that book. I got into. I got. I believe it was 30 pages and the book was done, but it wasn't a book.

Right.

Because I did it for the wrong reasons. When I sat down to write how you live and feeling, it was very, very different. Actually, it wrote itself. It came from an inspiration from being in the middle of a coaching session with a client. And that inspiration led me to believe that someone this intelligent who's lost on this concept of how you leave people feeling More people must be lost on that same concept.

Right.

So I felt the desire to get that so people could get to this intelligence and change. So I really believe that when you, when you, you have written your books for the right reasons, as has Shondell now, you've got something tangible, incredible that people actually use.

Absolutely.

So we did a sidebar. Let me bring it back in then. So point number three, children brought up only by a single mother have a higher risk of developing deviant behaviors, including drug abuse. Let's weigh in on that.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Statistics also will back that up. Now, again, going back to the individual choices, and this is something from my personal experience. You've been raised, you're a single mother, your kids are going to suffer. Now this is where personal accountability, accountability comes into it. You've got this trauma that you've experienced. Now you've got two choices. You can't deny the trauma. The two choices are. I can. That trauma is going to guide me down a darker path. Like you said, deviant behavior.

Yes.

I was tempted by drugs, I was tempted by all these side short term fixes to my pain.

Right.

That's what it is.

Now you can channel that pain into purpose.

Oh, I like that.

Channel your pain into purpose. So a part of me, I'm going to be a bit blunt, I am pissed off at the world. A part of me is that I'm pissed off. Like why me? You can play that, but however you can channel that and say, you know what, I am pissed off at the world and I've been categorized as a statistic and a nobody. And you know what, I'm going to prove you all wrong.

Yeah.

And I channel the anger and that pain into becoming successful, good at something. And along that journey, I can also say, and while I'm at it, I'm going to help others.

Yeah.

You said that's what you actually did.

A part of it was that there was an element of anger, that I'm going to prove you all wrong and I am somebody and I'm going to defy the odds. And now that I've actually attained that level of I've defied the odds, now becomes, now comes responsibility. Pay it forward. You've got to share your learnings and your experiences. It's what you have to do. If you are successful, you've got to pass it on.

I love what you shared, but. And the journeyman levels of him evolving through this. I like his approach.

Yeah, but.

But he is not living that today. I believe that you've evolved.

I have.

Yeah.

Because now you. Now you're not doing it to prove them wrong. Now you're doing it to prove for yourself, for you, that you have the ability to continue to rise.

Yes.

To accept.

Right.

Yeah.

So that. That they were. That them have been the catalyst, but you switched over. Because I think if he had stuck with proving them wrong, you would be, you know what.

Yeah.

Which I don't have.

Which you don't have.

Yeah.

Which means somewhere you. I like that. That is a great entry into how you move through this.

Yeah.

Lisa, I have a question from Marie Tamayo. I hear courage in this. How do we encourage kids to feel comfortable enough to share their pain surrounding this topic? And where do they go to get. To get and receive real help understanding how to overcome such a sensitive subject?

Let's answer the first question. The first question is how do we encourage kids to share. Is that it.

Share their pain surrounding this topic?

My first vote, and then I want the two of you weigh in, is those kids must gravitate to a trusted advisor.

Yes, I agree.

It doesn't have to be an official like a psychologist. I mean, great if that is. But they don't have that in the bandwidth. But they have got to gravitate to a trusted advisor.

Absolutely.

And tell the whole truth with no vulnerability. Know that you're that secret or that situation is between the two of you at the moment.

Yeah.

What do you guys think?

Well, first of all, Marie, thank you for that question.

That's a very good question.

Great question.

No good.

So there are a couple of things to do. You hit it. What you said is perfect. We as adults have got to provide an environment where they can feel trusted to share. But I'm gonna go beyond just the individual as a society, as a collective. This is what happens with kids who are abused and traumatized. They live in shame, so they've experienced the burden of being victimized. And then what happens is society judges them. And so how can you have the courage to go and say, I was, I was molested, I was abused. Because people are going to condemn you, and now you feel even more alienated. So as individuals, your responsibilities to stop giving. Judging.

Yeah.

And giving them a double sentence.

Yes, I agree. But you, you also said we need to create a safe place for them. Guess what? Sometimes we don't know they're going through it. And quite frankly, I don't think we realize we need to create that safe place. What happens if that safe place is not created for them? To answer Maria's Question.

Yeah, I think.

I think the answer. I like your point, but the answer is this.

Yeah.

The child has got to find the courage to create, to develop that.

And where does that courage come from? Right. So. Yeah. And the biggest thing is, remember I showed the video at Mindset of Success, our deepest fear. Right, right. And. And sometimes as. As. As young people, especially when. When something like molestation has happened, we feel somewhat inferior. We're not feeling. And we're not feeling powerful also.

We feel that it's our fault. Yeah.

Yeah.

We must have done something.

There's something that happened. Right.

But really, really, they're just in the space. They didn't do it.

But I think. I think when young people. I'd encourage young people. 1. Allow yourself to be powerful. Make yourself a superhero. Make yourself that person where you step out of that space and you say, you know what? My deepest fear? My deepest fear is that I'm powerful beyond measure. I am powerful.

How do they do that?

You know, how do they do that.

Shonda, when they're broken.

Yeah.

Abused, violated, Misunderstood. Confused.

Yeah.

Worried, scared. How do they. How do they think?

It starts with what you were talking about. It starts with finding that trusted advisor that you. That. That allows you to release all those emotions because his anger turned him into a superhero. Right. All of a sudden, it's like, I'm pissed off at everybody. You know, I'm a defeat, y'.

All.

Right. I'm gonna crush. I'm gonna crush your spirit. Spirit. Because you tried to crush mine.

So you're.

So now you're. You're actually pulling that power.

Right. So you're challenging those. Listening to help those young folks to.

Access their power, and they.

And they need to learn how to do that.

Yes. Yes. Because what's happening.

I totally agree. But, yeah, to really get to the focal point of what Marie was asking there, and this is maybe something that might help because. Because she was, I think, coming from the perspective as that wounded child. What do you do? It's easy as adults because we've overcome it. We've learned to look back and say, well, you've got to believe and you've got to do these things. But when you are that vulnerable kid who doesn't trust the world, who feels insecure, what do you do? These are some of the things I leverage. This is romantic. If you can imagine these kids, you've got to try and imagine what would a better future look.

Look like.

That's where it's. It's. I'm putting the onus on the individual as the kid. You're hurt, you're wounded, you feel insecure. Try to imagine what it would look like to live that life, that perfect life.

Right.

And you hold on to that dream.

Right.

Because that's. It's the element of hope. There is always hope. Yeah. Very quickly, there's an experiment they did with rats. They put rats in a water container, and they were going to drown. And then some of the rats, they took them out of the water just as they were drowning. When they put them back in the water, those rats survived twice as long because of the element of hope.

Yeah.

So any young adults out there listening you, There is hope.

Right.

You've got to believe that there is hope.

Yeah.

Leverage that. Dig deep and tell yourself tomorrow can and will be better.

Yeah. And they don't have to move from the abuse, psychological affairs happening to this place of power. They can move to the desire to build a relationship.

Yeah.

That will offer you the opportunity at some point, tell the story. They don't have to go immediately tell the story.

Yeah.

Because that's gonna be too uncomfortable. They have to build relationship, real relationship, to be able to have that comfortable in the space enough to share that. They're not gonna be able share right away the incident.

Right, Right.

But I think they can get there after knowing this is a safe place to tell the truth.

And, you know, when I. When I got, you know, it took me till I was 23 years old, from 12 to 23, when I went to counseling and therapy in the military. And one of the things that I had to come to grips with is one, like you said, not blaming myself, but also you get to the point where you're looking at that person and saying, I wonder if somebody did that to them.

Right.

That brought them to that place where they. Because hurt people. Hurt people.

Yes.

People hurt others. Yeah.

They keep going, you know, and then there's this cycle that happens from generation to generation. So it took me from there to there, not feeling sorry, but also having a justification somewhat, saying, oh, well, maybe that was taught to that person. And they thought that was the right thing to do. And it's a cycle.

So they thought it was the right thing to do or not. They did it as a sequence because it happened to them and it happened before.

Exactly.

Before that.

Exactly. So. So you start to. Yeah, it's a hand me down. And they're not even understanding. Like, he said, that was a sickness for his father.

Right.

You know, that might. That's a sickness for this, for this young Man. And so it's one of those things that we have to come to grips with as we start going through this process.

I like it. So what was Marie's second part of that question? We answered the first part. I think that's pretty good substance for the first part of that.

Where do they go to get to receive real help in understanding how to overcome such a sensitive subject?

Okay, so we answered it all in one.

Well, just to quickly add to that, because I actually know Marie very well. So this is some options for some youth out there. It just happens that Marie has a youth program called Youth Leadership Authority. So as kids or as parents struggling with kids who are in trouble or who are at risk, there are a lot of organizations out there. It can be the church. It can be a youth group, reach out to the community, because there are programs out there that are designed to help kids. Youth Leadership Authority being one of them. So that's one resource that kids can sort of latch onto. There's help out there. There are people out there who want to help.

And, you know, one of the things we've been doing as a business community in the chamber is going out to some of these youth organizations, because sometimes people don't realize. They see us in our nice shiny suits, and they see us doing successful things in business, but they don't realize that we've been through what they've been through. So also getting them to talk to some of those successful business owners that can. That can help them see that I went through this. I know where you come from. And that was another thing that helped me in neighborhood is having successful people come in and show their vulnerability. Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

Well said. So with that point, let's slide into this last point. Fatherless daughter syndrome is a disorder of the emotional system that leads to repeated dysfunctional relationship decisions, especially in the areas of trust and self worth. It can be a lifelong syndrome if the symptoms go unrecognized and acknowledged. Just briefly, we have about five minutes left. What are your brief thoughts on that? The five.

I think the relationship between a father and daughter is crucial because that should be the example of what that young lady, who she should be aspiring to be with, who she can measure up to, if you will. And if you look at how. Let's use tiara, for example. She keeps saying, first of all, my name's Shondell. I think she purposely went and found Shawn. Try to get somebody like a dad, you know, I'm Sean Odell. He's Irish, so, you know, love that. But but really there's a lot of similarities between me and her husband. And there's a lot of, you know, we're both very, very frugal, if you will. And we're, you know, but we have things that we don't mess around with when it comes to Dr. So she, she sees that we're both father loving fathers, loving husbands, adventurous in our own ways. You know, he, he loves the outdoors and crazy stuff. I take more risk in other areas. So there's, there's a lot of similarities. Air Force. Yeah, all that.

Let me share another point that I uncovered in my research on this because I didn't have a lot of intelligence if I wanted to do some work. Another interesting thing to note is that daddy issues are not just restricted for women with absent fathers. Many women whose father was very much present in their lives also suffer from daddy issues. The effects of a good or bad father are on a girl, basically. So your thoughts when you hear that?

Well, again, I'm going to put the responsibility on the fathers here. And I recently read this quote that kind of blew my mind. And it was something to the essence of this.

It.

If your daughter is dating a man like you and it doesn't make you happy, then you are the problem.

That's a great quote.

Something on that essence. So as fathers, it's your responsibility. You talked about example. Be the example to your daughter how you would want a man to treat your daughter, treat your wife, your girlfriend, your significant other with the due respect that they deserve. And that creates a ripple effect because if the father is absent and not a father in the way that is necessary. Unfortunately, young girls are heavily traumatized.

Wow. Wow, that's big. I'm gonna do a little quick laser session. We didn't talk about this before. I want you to respond with just one word. I'll say a bullet point. You respond one word only. Okay, here it comes. You have issues implementing boundaries. One word. This. These are like fatherless daughters. You have. You have, you have issues implementing boundaries.

Confused.

Change.

Change.

Number two. You have low self esteem.

Vital work.

You have low self esteem. Shut down. Oh, wow. That's it. That was two words, but that's it. Done with that file from don't say anymore. That's good point. Number three. You cannot trust your part partners. Vital. One word.

Wow.

Okay. Chandelle. You cannot trust your partners.

God.

Okay. Understanding. You fear you feel entrusting someone. The fear you feel in trusting someone. Shondell. One word.

Faith.

Okay. One word.

Courage.

Okay. Number four. You tend to Date older men. One word, Shondell. Respect.

Okay.

Who's your daddy?

That's three words, but I like it.

Who's your daddy? That was a good one.

That was a good one.

That's a great one.

They're not following the rules, but I didn't expect for them to. But that's okay. I love them. Okay. Point number five. You're. You're emotional. You're emotionally unavailable. Shondell. Lonely.

Vital.

Isolated.

I like it. Point number six. You prefer sexual relationships to emotional ones.

Vital.

Superficial.

Wow.

New question for you, Shondell. 7. You're afraid of abandonment.

Scared.

Nice.

New one for you. Vital, you're constantly. You constantly need reassurance.

Insecure.

I like it. New one for you, Shondel. You tend to be jealous.

Insecure. Very.

Not very good. Vital. You seek emotionally unavailable men.

Directionless.

Ooh, Nice. Chandelle, You. You push men away. Bold. Okay. Lisa, you become easily attached.

You become easily attached. Groveling.

Just a couple more. Vital. You seek out fairy tales.

Romantic.

Okay.

Chandel, you are a people pleaser.

Caring.

Nice. Vital. You love attention from men, even if they aren't your partner.

Diva.

Wow.

So what you guys just did, really in a speed fashion. But those are a lot of the symptoms and challenges as research that hit fatherless daughters and what happens. And so you think about that. That was a load. Every word that you guys use, inclusive of Lisa did to express, said a lot about that condition.

Right.

Imagine someone battling a whole slew of these conditions.

Yeah.

It's hard for them to never be happy in their lives.

Right. Yeah.

So what's a call to action? Let's start with. With Shondale Chandel. What's a good call to. To action for people listening to this podcast or it's. Whether they're watching it or listening to. What's a good call to action regarding psychological effects of growing up without a.

Well, I think I'm going to say this. I'm going to put a responsibility on the community. And I've said this before. I think that the community has to stop normalizing single parenting. I think they have to stop normalizing it. They have to say. And they have to stop normalizing, especially single motherhood. Because at one point, we were starting to give mothers Christmas cards on Father's Day. Instead of making those fathers accountable, we're giving them kind of a. Kind of an out, in my opinion. We're saying, well, we got these great mothers around, so no worries. But then we still have these tragic situations that happen.

Let me respond to you like this. I gave you guys one word. Giving you five.

Five.

Gone with your bad self. That's five words.

Gone with your bad. Now you. You ought. You ought to take that and give that to your mama. Cuz you sounded black there.

Yes, you did.

That's right.

Gone, gone, gone. Jesse. So you supposed. Go on, Jesse. I'll show you black. We have just let my call action.

My call to action is very simple. It's one word. Empathy. If we can have all that little bit more empathy and relate to these people that we're talking about, they now feel less alienated. They can now, as a result of feeling less alienated, they can now start sharing. And through the sharing comes the healing.

Yes.

Be more empathetic.

Yes, yes.

Thank you very much, my brother.

That's right.

Okay, look, so I want to close with this. Where can people find you? Chandel. People interested in yours.

I know we all look alike. I know we all look alike to you.

You know what I'm saying?

I get it.

Y' all the same to me.

That's right. I just don't have an accent at all.

Talk to the hand, whatever. Looking at one and call the other.

Literally my full name. Vital. Germain.com. and in terms of social medialjermain across the board, LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube.

Okay, Vital. Where can they find you?

I mean.

I mean.

All right, Lisa, we can, you know, you can find me on all those. All those different social media outlets. Shondell, Newsom and some new marketing. I'm there all the time.

Fair enough.

I like it.

They can find us on just talk.com and YouTube and all those other social media markets. Place. Lisa Farrell does a great job of keeping us up to speed.

Oh, she does.

And we'd like to say this was an extraordinary program today. One word. What do you like best about this program? One word.

Vital.

Now I'm talking to Shonda.

Vital.

Okay, Vital.

Word of the day. Real lationships.

Relationships. At the end of the day, we know that our best lives always start and end with one thing. And it's all about how you leave them feeling.

Yeah. All right. Awesome job.