The Worst News I've Heard About Ahmaud Arbery

Foreign.

To our Brothers in Conversation podcast, powered by Jesse and Shondell. Shondell, you are from Bed Stuy do or Die Brooklyn.

That little town.

That's a little town. That's nothing like Hawthorne, Nevada, population 5,000 cats and dogs. This is the Brothers in Conversation podcast. This is so fun. I love connecting with Mr. Newsom here. So Chandel. Our title today, sir, is the worst news I've ever heard about Ahmaud Arbery.

That's.

That's the title. The worst news I've ever heard about Ahmaud Arbery. And this is May 21, 2020, episode number 26. Let's just jump right into this thing, Shondell. So this is, this is. Let me, let me, let me lay out a few pieces and then we'll jump right in. So Ahmad Arbery. Lisa put together some great points for us.

Is.

And she says Ahmad arbery, an innocent 25 year old man out for a jog two miles away from his home, shot and killed. And this is a hate crime situation in Georgia. Georgia doesn't have a hate crime law. Lawmakers have called for further discussion and hate crime legislation. This is a lot about racial profiling and race matters and that sort of stuff. So tell me your thoughts. Obviously, this is just tragic. No doubt about it. I'm sure any, for the most part, anybody paying attention to this story would say that this is a very tragic situation. What about you, Shondale?

You know what, it's something that I've told people is even more than tragic. It's a reality that sometimes we hate to face. And at any given time, Jesse or Shondell can be jogging in our neighborhood with our hoodies on. Right. And the neighborhoods we live in are very nice neighborhoods. I don't see it as much in Nevada, but I have witnessed it as part of being a part of southern Nevada. And I recall an incident when Arlene and I were shopping and she was at a store in Green Valley Ranch. And we both, it was a cool day. So we both were doing our walks and we had our hoodies on and we walked into the store and you know, just me, I'm on my phone, I'm looking at everything and I'm going to, hey, where am I going? I'm not going in the store with Arlene. I'm halfway in the store and I turn around and walk out. Well, the store clerk automatically made me a suspect and automatically called the police. And police presence was there heavily because it was the holidays and they were looking for. And here's the. I want to kind of couch this so people understand the description was there were there, you know, there were black people in hoodies and they walked into the store. And that made us a suspect. Right. For these. What do you call shoplifting. So when after we, you know, went through all of that and I sat down with the. And I sat down with the chief of police in Henderson, I said, what's interesting is typically when you describe a suspect, you describe their height, their weight, you describe, you know, you got some physical features that you talk about. Correct, Right. Typically think about those things. And I think what's important is just being a black person in a hoodie is not enough of a description to. For you to take action where what happens with everybody else is, oh, this person was a white guy, six feet tall, you know, a beard block. You. You hear the description a little bit different.

And so you're further description. You hear details. You don't. You don't just hear. You don't. You don't just hear a circle profile. You hear details about height and size and exact facial. You know, whether they had a beard or no beard or that sort of thing. Yeah, sure, right.

So I thought was important is just if the way. And I just saw Brandon Ward came on to our live. I'm glad our live is working. But I'll say this is what's interesting is if me, you, or Brandon walk into that store, in that store in Green Valley Ranch, and the description is a black man with a hoodie. Now you're a suspect before you've done anything wrong. And I explained this to one of my friends, one of my very, very dear friends. And he was asking me, he said, shondell, what's the difference between my kid going to the movie theaters and being profiled as a teenager creating a ruckus? I said, the difference is being a teenager creating a ruckus. They will kick you out of the movie theater, and they may not even call the police. But if you're a black kid and you go into a movie theater and you create a ruckus, there's a chance that you might be murdered, because then it's a different heightened awareness. And to close on this point, when I walked out of the store, the police engaged me as if I was a suspect, but it wasn't their fault. I'm just going to say this out front. They were very pleasant. It was the store clerk's fault because the store clerk basically said I was a suspect. Now later on, the police officer went in and Said, don't do that to us again. Don't ever put us in the position where you told us basically this person was shoplifting and that person just walked in the store and walked out. Don't do that to us again. That's not fair to us. So she really gave it to the store clerk and the manager. Don't ever call us unless you saw some action that he took that made him a suspect. Just him walking in with a hoodie and being black did not make him a suspect. Right.

So why do you think that happens?

I think it happens. And I wrote a story about it one time and they published it in rj. The Brand of the Black Man. The Brand of the black Man.

And here.

Here's the. Here's what we have to do. We have to. And I'm not. Again, I'm not blaming the victim. I am saying this and I wrote this, so I'm not going to back off of it. Number one, we have to promote, as black men, we have to do more promotion of the Brandon Ward's, of the Jesse Pharrell's, of the Shondal Newsoms, of the Lawrence Weekleys. Because let's be honest, let's be totally honest. And is our brand is damaged because we want to promote the gangster mentality. We want to promote that all black men beat their women. We want to promote it. And that's not we. I'm not saying we as we want to promote it, but the media wants to portray us as these thugs. And I'm going to give you one good example. And it's somewhat related. Two African American guys who play in the NFL were. It was almost like they walked into a room, they held everybody up by gunpoint, robbed them and then walked out with the. I know one of them plays for the Giants. And they. The way the story was written, Jess, it was like they were Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. Now the story's coming out that that's not exactly how it happened, but their reputation is already damaged. Two black kids in the NFL robbed everybody and went out with $7,000. And I think that's part of the issue. The main part of the issue is mainstream media wants to depict us as gangsters. And I'll close on this point is that there's a book by Dr. Naim Akbar called Papers in African Psychology. The media has always depicted us, whether they depicted us in Tarzan with loincloth and spears and big plates in our mouth, or they depicted us as being pimps and hoods and hustlers and all of that, or they depict us as. All of us being deadbeats or, or fathers who are irresponsible or abusive. It really is bad. But I also think that we have to take some. Take some. A very small portion of that responsibility and start highlighting people like you.

Well, I appreciate that. That's a heck of a story, and I appreciate there's a lot of content inside of that story with a number of things you said resonate. Chantel. The first thing you said that resonate is you talked about a victim. And those people that are listening to this, no matter what nationality, race, creed, color, they are. One of the worst things you can be in America is a victim. One of the worst thing you can be in the world is a victim. Because the victim almost always, always gets screwed. I always do my best to remove myself out of victim role, victim mentality. Even. Even if I'm being thrust into the space of being a victim, sometimes it's outside of your control. To your point, in this particular case with Ahmad, it was outside of his control, was definitely a victim. He clearly, by the evidence of that tape, that recording, he clearly was doing nothing, threatening, nothing wrong, nothing that many other people throughout the day had done. Walking in and out of that. That house that was under construction. He didn't take anything. He didn't. He didn't violate anything. He didn't tear anything up. He just. He was just observing. And then he came out. These, these two guys, the Michaelson, the father and son, they. For whatever reason, I do. I really don't know what their real reason was or reasoning was why they considered this guy a threat. Maybe they just felt that he didn't deserve to be in their neighborhood. I don't know. I can't speak to them. But it certainly didn't come from any evidence of him being a threat. Your thoughts?

No, you're absolutely right. And that's the issue is like, just like my example in Green Valley Ranch, I was not a threat. I was on my phone, I walked in the store and I turned around and walked out.

I.

Once they reviewed the tape, they said, what made these folks think I was a threat? Just because I wore a hoodie. And if I wore a hoodie, Jess, and it was the middle of July, I might understand it a little bit, right? But if I'm wearing a hoodie. And even as they were talking to me, I watched several white people walk in with hoodies. And do you know, some walked in with the hoods over their back, some walked in with backpacks I asked, and I asked the store clerk, let's see if they. Let's see if they're gonna blast you on the radio because these guys walk in and she. She said, you're right. You're absolutely right. So I felt bad for the police, and I'm just gonna say this. You know, I felt bad for the police officers because they were put in a position where they were given poor information and they gotta react. And you know, this. Police have to react based on the information they're given.

Right. They don't know.

They're not there.

I totally agree. I totally agree. Well, I think what that comes is, that comes from what I call passed down or handed down ignorance.

Yes. It.

Because it becomes ignorance is that's what's drip that, what's driving that. And it can happen anytime. I know that we are in the now we're looking at 2020. When I first came upon Las Vegas as a young teenager, it was back in the day when John Travolta and Saturday Night Fever was huge. And took a friend of mine. It was. It was called. It was called. Yeah, wasn't that. Wasn't that the great times? I took a dear friend of mine. We were both busboys at the Stardust at the time.

Okay.

And I met him there, and we went to watch Saturday Night Fever. And I was driving my own car at the time, and we were leaving the movie, and we. We got out of the movie before curfew. And it was over there, Red Rock. It was the Red Rock Theaters, which was over there by Charleston, in that area over there and Decatur. And that was back then. That was like the big theater complex. And when we. When we were leaving, there was a cop following me. It was behind me. I said, oh, my God, this cop is following me. So I. I wanted him. I didn't want to be in his way. And I was just taking my friend home after the movie, and everywhere I turned, he turned. Everywhere I turned, he turned. I was getting close to my friend's condo where he lived with his mom, and finally cop pulled me out. Okay, this is. This is not gonna be good. Like, I was already concerned about the cops.

Yeah.

But I'm gonna ask you what you think this did to me after that. So I was. At this time, I was 16 years old, and the cop pulled me over and I had. I was. I also worked in Northern Nevada and Hawthorne, Nevada, at the liquor store. But I took some time off to get a. Like a bigger job, bigger money in Vegas.

Right.

And he. He Ran my driver's license. And he says, what are you doing working at a liquor store? You have no business working at liquor store. You're not 21. I go, they gave me the job. I'm a stock clerk. And he says, what are you doing in this neighborhood? You got no business being in this neighborhood. I said, my friend lives in the neighborhood. I'm taking him home. And he says, you don't talk back to me. You did this. He was giving me a really hard time. And then he says, I need you to get out of here, and you get out of this neighborhood. I said, sir, I said, could you please. Could you please write me a note since you're an officer? Because now you've kept me after curfew so that if I get stopped by another cop, I can say, because you held me after curfew. He said, you just get out of here. How do you think that left me feeling whenever I was in the presence of a cop?

Well, it goes back to what you said, right? We don't ever want to be a victim. But you were. No, you were a victim. And again, at no fault of your own. And this is. This is what I want people on this call to understand. We. You know, the experience that Jess is talking about, the experience that I have, and I've had many of those, like the. The. The victim, the. The piece that gets. That gets under our skin is we've done nothing wrong. Just like I was telling my friend, I said, you said, if your. If your teenage son goes to the movies and he's having, you know, he's being a teenager, you know, getting loud around, goofing off, okay? And then the security comes and says, hey, you know, knock it off, right? And they're, you know, sometimes they're. They continue on because they're hyped about a Friday night at the movies. That's one thing. Because they're taking action based on what they were doing. You were doing nothing but driving your friend home.

That's it.

I explained that to my friend. He said, wow, I never thought about that. I said, yeah, if you had some control over the behavior. But there was no behavior that created this situation with you or our mood or. Or. Or me. There was no. There was nothing I would say, what would I do different? Would you do anything different in that situation? Yes. Besides just driving your friend home?

No, because it was ordinary. It was. It was.

It.

I didn't think I was doing anything offensive. I didn't think I was doing anything threatening. I look. I look I really. I really. But that it shifted a disposition inside of me to be very mindful and very careful and do my best to stay away from circumstances like that. So I say that. I say that. Chandel, to say this at the same time you said earlier Lawrence Weekly, you named a few other.

Brandon Ward. Right.

Okay. Kim Kid Evans. Exactly. Exactly. That are looking to set a better example for ourselves and for others. Anytime I get an opportunity as a professional speaker to speak for a police organization, I take it. Now, you think that'd be kind of scary. For me, it's not scary because I believe that's my opportunity to show them and show the world we are people, we matter. So we did. We did a piece. I have to think over the years, I got a chance to do some stuff at Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department with. He turned out to be Captain Suey. He was Sergeant Suey at the time when. That time when I met him. And also Sergeant Bill Teal, who turned out to. I'm not sure if Bill is a captain or not now, but. But these are police folks that work in the police force here in Vegas. And then I got a chance for. A guy named Kwabina. Got a chance to do some stuff for an organization called cops, and this was in Chicago. And the speaking engagement turned out incredible, was a keynote opening for 700 cops in the audience.

Right.

And my goal was to get them to see this color as though we are people to be sensitive, that the color doesn't always make who you are. You make who you are. Tell me what you think. What do you think?

I do the same thing. Jess is like, in. In. In any form. And I, you know, I'm in. Mark. I call. I'm in what I call marketplace ministry. You know, my pastor just my.

Oh, shoot, how did that happen?

My.

Tell them I'll catch them later. That's probably for me. Even though it's on your phone.

I'm trying to get rid of them. Okay. Sorry about that. And I thought I put it on do not disturb, but anyway, so the way I feel is like, you know, and I was just telling you, my pastor just passed away, and we talked about this many different times.

It's.

It's. Pastor Fowler used to say to me many times, hey, you know what? When you are in the presence of your marketplace ministry, that's what. That's what he calls my. You know, my work with the urban Chamber and all of that. I have to let people first and foremost understand that I'm a business owner. I'm A father. I am a. I am a loving husband. I am a. I am an American who served this country. And guess what? Yes, I am a very, very strong and proud black man. So understand that you have. And I'm saying this, you have to give me respect, because I am that man. Don't disrespect me by making. Taking me back years ago to when you said I was a third of a man. Don't ever do that to me. Right. So disrespectful. Based on who I am and what I've earned.

No. Well said. I get that. So. So we do need more Shondale newsoms out there. And we'll come back to Ahmad. Aubrey, let's talk about. His mother's mother said that without this national attention, her son's death would have been covered up. And I actually believe that Lisa did some studies for us and she found us. How many murders are there typically globally? 464,000 thousand murders globally.

Right.

Typically annually. And. And just in the United States. 16,214 murders just in 20. 18 murders.

Right.

Yeah. None of those go unnoticed. And unearth this particular situation with this. With this Ahmad kid. If that was not captured on video, it probably would have gone unnoticed.

Your thoughts, I mean. Well, my thoughts with that, Jess, is like, I've told you many times that I could not imagine being my grandfather. My grandfather walking down the streets of North Carolina, and when he was telling the story, I could imagine me walking into the town and I can't look white people in the face. I can't look at a white woman, or I could be lynched. I can't walk down the road. I smell the stench of black people hanging from a tree and being burnt. And again, it goes back to, I am doing nothing but being black. I'm just. I just got the skin, which I had no control over.

Right. So.

So there's a fear factor that you would have as that person. Now, today, I can honestly say I don't have that fear. And one of the reasons why I don't have that fear is because I feel like I'm entitled to just be an American person, a veteran, a father, a husband who I am mainstream. And I know a lot of people don't like to hear that, but at the end of the day, I am man. Strange dream. I've contributed enough to my community. I've contributed to blacks, whites, Hispanics, whoever. And so at the end of the day, I've earned the right.

And Shonda, you're a dye in the world. You are a dye in the wall. People person. You are a people person.

You.

You are a light spirit.

You.

Yes, you've got depth and yes, you got intensity, and you can bring that, but you prefer to bring a lightness. You. You prefer to bring people together. That smile of yours is a $10,000 smile. And anybody that knows you knows you've got a lot of good things working. But that's the best thing about you is that ten thousand dollar smile.

And, and that's.

That's a universal appeal. That doesn't just appeal to black people.

Yeah. Yeah.

Am I right or not?

You're right. When you.

When you give that $10,000 smile to the clerk at the supermarket or cleaners or at the gas station or wherever, immediately you get that back from them because they can feel that it's genuine and it's authentic.

Yeah. Right.

And so. So when we. When we go back to this, this the Ahmad kid, he's. He. His life is over the 25 years that he lived, is now hopefully can stand for something because that's just too early to leave this earth, especially when all he was doing was jogging down the street.

Yeah.

You know, I think that's too early for him to leave this earth, and I think that's a universal thing. Then you go to even go. Go to Roddy, William, Roddy Bryant. He was reported that. He's one that reported the crime, and now he's getting death threats. Of course he reported it 10 weeks later. I don't know how you could hold on to something that long. I'm not gonna discredit him for that. I'm glad that he did bring it forward. But what do you think he's going through having reported that now? Now the suspect, whether he was involved, because how come, you know, he took.

Took the.

The video and he didn't shout out when he. When he saw the murder or he held up for 10 weeks or. What are your thoughts?

Well, I can tell you what my exact thoughts are, because, as you know, I. I've spoken to people from the south before, and it's the same thing that happened during civil rights, during segregation. There are people who don't want to get involved, get involved with fear of the retaliation that this guy's getting. There are people. And remember, like, especially in the south, it's conditioning, right? It's like if I tell the sheriff and the sheriff's in on it, if you watch it be burning, then the sheriff comes and harasses you and treats you the same way.

Right.

In a lot of ways, I can't blame a lot of people for not wanting that to come down on their family. It's not necessarily that five judges accused themselves.

Five judges recused themselves from that case, and three prosecutors said, I'm out.

Yeah. Yeah.

Probably for the reasons that you're speaking.

Exactly. They're in fear of retribution. Right. And I think that's the problem. It happens. And it happens in law enforcement, too, because some of my friends will tell you in law enforcement, you don't want to be the guy that snitches on the other cop. So the cop may have beat somebody down, but you're like, oh, man, I can't tell. Because if I tell, then I'm a snitch, and then I get all of the backlash. So I'm not excusing him for that. But at the same time, I do understand why he would hold that information. I'm glad that he brought the information out.

I thought it was quite incredible. And he definitely taken some heat for it on all sides. And here's the thing. When it comes to matters like this, Shondale, here's the part that neither of you and I have mentioned so far. We're on the outside of this.

Yep.

There are many details that we don't know and we may never know.

Sure.

I believe when it comes to matters like this, we need to focus on the facts.

Yes. What.

What actually realistically really happened. And oftentimes we don't have the facts. Sometimes the facts get smurred or they get muddled or they get. Or sometimes they get. They're. They're fictitious. Sometimes they're not facts, but they're there. But they're sold as facts. And to your point, and when the media gets involved, the media is involved to make a buzz out of it because it's a.

It's.

It's a hot topic. So oftentimes information gets created that's not helpful to the case or to our knowledge about what's really happening. What are your thoughts?

You know, I agree with that. And I think that it becomes distorted in what is real versus what everybody wants the story to be. And it goes back again to what you were talking about initially. We don't know what their motive was. We don't know what motivated them except hate. Right. There's something they could not have thought. They could not have thought that he took something when he's jogging. Right. What is he going to do, carry a sink on his back? Right. Whatever was in that place, what was he Carrying or what did they see that made him a suspect?

What indicated that? Yeah, that's right.

I heard the whole argument about stand your ground. Well, again, that is a misperception, because stand your ground is if someone is attacking you, you have a right to defend yourself. So at what point was he attacking them? At what point did he become a threat to them? The only thing that they saw was a young black man running down the road, and that made him someone who had to lose his life because of what? Right. That's the question.

And if you could change one thing, if you could change one thing, Shondal, about that whole scenario, about the Aubrey situation, what one thing would you change?

You know, the one thing that I would definitely change. One thing I would change is even the. I would change how the media reports those things. Call it like it is, right? I think one of the best things that ever happened to this country is when they reported the things that happened in the south during the civil rights with Dr. King. Report it like it is. Don't. Don't sugarcoat it. Don't. Because. Because here's what happens.

Just.

Just like I gave the example with those two athletes, those two football players, they flat out said it was robbery. They didn't say, right, oh, alleged. I saw. I saw the reports with these young. Two young black men, right? They didn't say alleged. They didn't say possible. They didn't say potential suspects or people of interest in this case. They did not immediately say this was a hate crime. They danced around it. They said they put out all the things that could have possibly. They thought he was a suspect, running, robbing a house. And then when we see the video. We see the video and it's a construction, a home being constructed. I'm saying, what could he steal? What could he steal? So my problem is the media should have called it like it was straight up. It was a hate crime. They hunted him down like it was a deer and they killed him. And that was so disrespectful.

I like that. I like that. That's actually a very, very good answer. If I could. If I could change one thing about that scenario, say we go back in time and I like yours. The one thing that I would love to be able to change. I'll put that in the space of what Lisa and I call hhg. I'd like to change the head, heart and gut of the perpetrators. I'd like to be able to shift the mindset of the man, the father's son, that did this tragic Thing that cost a life. And it's not just the life that is that, that it costs the damage to the people related to this life. The mother will never forget that that's how her son left this earth. So if I could change one thing, it would be the mindset using the HHG campaign. Use your head, heart and gut. What inside of them? What inside of them? Chandelle, before they, before they pull the action, what told them that that was okay? What told them that was a good thing? What told them that was going to save the community? Check in with your head, heart and gut. H H G. Yes. The one thing I would, if I could shift one thing, which obviously I cannot, it would be mindset of those people that come into a situation with such a destructive mindset that they don't, if they have a head, hardened gut, it's something needs repair. It's out of repair. Because you tell me, what could have been inside of even someone that has a hatred towards someone that's not like them? What could have been inside of them that drove them to say that this is the action to take and this is.

Okay, well, I can tell you, I'm going to answer that question, but I want to tell you one of the effects that could happen. And I was talking to my grandson the other day and he was talking about. He said, but you know, Papa, there's not as much racism today as it was in the past. I said, I disagree with you, grandson, and I'm going to tell you why. It's just that you can't be as open with the racism you have to find, because otherwise they would not have said he robbed or did something back in the day. They just would have killed him. And there would have been no retribution because they would have went to the sheriff and the sheriff would have said, oh, you killed another black. You know what they would have called him? But they would have said, oh, job well done. You got rid of another one. Right? So the rules of the game have changed. Now, to answer your question, it goes back to that interview. I never forget the interview that I remember. The most that Oprah Winfrey did was with the Klan. And when she did that interview with the Klan, it was interesting to me that when Oprah asked a little boy who was about 5, 6 years old, why do you hate black people? He said, because that's just the way it is. So there was no, there was no reasoning or anything like that. Now, the mom and the dad tried to explain that, you know, segregation abolishment of Slavery, all of those things pretty much put them at the bottom of the food chain. They went from owning people to these people being their bosses or whatever it was. So their perception. And here's the funny thing, they could not have experienced that. That had to be passed down generation to generation. So what I would say is, people like that, typically what happens, they have a hatred for me and you, Jessica. And I'm gonna. If you don't mind, I'm going to bring it even further, closer to home. If Tierra's with Sean or you're with Lisa, those two people would hate your guts and hate Tiara's guts. Why? Because you're not. You're going around who they consider white people. Not Irish people, not Scottish people, not. They're saying they're messing with our kind. And you may be a victim just for that, 100%.

And that's so unfortunate. You have to be very mindful of your environment. You have to be very mindful of where you go. And that's all of us. All of us need to be that anyway. But to your particular point, in Tiara's case, and in my case, we have to be very, very sensitive to that, because other people have made determinations and choices of ways of being that are inconsistent with human life. Because it's not about that. It's about their. Whatever their agenda is and all that sort of stuff. So I totally get that. Well, with that being said, why do you think, first off, let's say this is not about whether you believe in God or you believe in the Big Bang Theory. We all got here somehow. Whatever your belief system is, I'm not going to try to preach or talk about the belief system, but there are different persuasions of people. There are different races, different cultures, different creeds. They're brown people, and they're darker people, and they're lighter people, and they're, you know, all over the place.

Yep.

Why do you think you came into this world as a black man, as a man that. As a little, baby, little boy, now, a man that happens to be a man of color. Why do you think you are man? That's.

That's such an excellent question. I believe you. Well, you know. You know how I believe? I believe that, you know, first and foremost, I believe that God created the earth, God created man. And here's what I don't subscribe to. I don't subscribe that when God created Adam, that Adam was automatically a white dude in my head. Jess, I'm being totally honest, totally transparent. No Offense to anybody on this call. What science and religion has proven that the. The birthplace of this world was in the continent of Africa. Right. So again, my issue is I don't. When I say I'm a black man, I'm saying I'm the originator of the earth. So that's just Shondell's belief. That's what my father imparted in me. Even, you know, some of the books that I read and some of the research that I've done, that's just who I am. Yeah, but.

But why do you think that you. Why do you think you came into this world as a person of color versus someone of.

I think it was intentional. I think it's because people. I think with everything that's happened, I think that people. I'm a communicator, and I also. I consider myself an educator. So I can go into many circles, as you said, whether it's the smile or it's the dialect or it's the communication or it's the open openness. But I can go into any situation and talk to people and give them the perspective that we are all in this world together. And I truly believe that I'm here to communicate. I'm here to open people's minds to what's real. I believe that I was put on the earth one to worship God, but also to, number one, bring people together.

I like that. That's actually a very good answer. I'm very. My answer will be very similar to yours. If you were to ask me why is it that I believe that I'm sporting this complexion this time around, I would say this. Too much is given, much is required.

Oh, that's a great one. Hey, let me show you something. So that says that somebody inscribed that. Look it go. It says that on here.

Does it really?

To whom much is given, much is required. Maisha Williams gave me that with Perfect.

Perfect. That's perfect. I didn't even know that. So too much is given, much is required. I see this as a bit of an onus to carry, But I also believe that I am a difference maker. I believe that I was challenged with this complexion to be able to do something with it to the benefit of all. Not just for myself, but just like.

That'S how we met. Right. And that's why. Because I saw that. I saw when you said, you know, when you talk about how people feel and in your book, you talk about how people feel, what I was saying is you brought me to a place where I needed to transition the Urban chamber. For them to understand, out of everything that's going on, we have to focus on how people feel.

Absolutely. Because at the end of the day, that's where we live from, how we feel. So it's all about how you leave them feeling at the end of the day. There's a connection for all of us, no matter race, color, creed, size, intelligence, lack of, it doesn't matter. So I believe that I was intended to sport this complexion, to be able to have the power within, to rise above it all and be a difference maker for others, not just myself, not just for black people, not just for white people, for all people. And so if I were of Caucasian descent.

Yeah.

What difference would I be making? You people would automatically think I'm in a good old boy club because I have lighter skin.

Well. And I think you and I both understand this, that we have a purpose.

We are here. Correct.

So we behave in that manner. And what I would say is that don't minimize. And here's where I think it's very disrespectful. Don't minimize me to one race, one culture, one space. And I always used to talk about this with Dr. King. Dr. King was a global hero. Do not confine him to civil rights. Don't confine him to the South. Give him his respect. Do the man who gave his life for 39 years to help others like we're talking about right now. And not that we're on that level, but we are respectful of what he's done. And he talked about a universal agenda. Right. And so that's why I think it's extremely important that we continue on the journey to make sure that we don't have those situations like a mood anymore. We have to fight the ignorance. We have to come at the ignorance with a tank, with Scud missiles, with atomic bombs. We have to fight racism with the weapons that have brought racism to the forefront. And I will say this, I don't believe racists are the majority. I think they're just the loudest.

Fair enough. I'm glad to hear that. And I hope that you're right on that. I would also say take it to another step further. Whenever anyone that's listening to this call or watching this session, whenever life deals you difficulties, challenges defeat loss. Whenever life deals you like you're being knocked down. I believe that that is intended to teach you something. Yep. Because it's hard as our human minds are wired to do the work when we're standing at the top of the mountain.

Right, Right.

Oftentimes we don't think to do the work till you fall down or get knocked down and you're at the bottom trying to get back up again. Right. So I believe that whenever situations, whatever your life challenges are, whether you're. No matter what they are, I'd say look at those challenges of those whatever the difficulty is, snatch the lesson from whatever that is and throw everything else away. Throw the loss, throw the hurt, throw the pain, throw the challenge. Just hold on to that lesson and do something with it. I always say this whenever you lose in life, don't lose the lesson. So I believe that some of the difficulties Shondell are intended to teach us something. I think when we, when we don't learn those lessons and do something with along the way we get repeated behavior of the bad stuff.

Well, I think it's always a lesson, right? And going back to your point earlier is that Amood's mom is like I want my, I want my son's life to teach lessons. Right. And the lessons have to be that racism is not acceptable. What number one, right. Can't just go kill people because you don't like them. And at the end of the day, it wasn't because he was jogging in the neighborhood. It wasn't because he stole something. It wasn't because he did something. At the end of the day, racism is unacceptable. That's right. Start with. And then the other thing that we have to remember is going to backwards again, Jess is the brand of the black man, right? Allow the media to depict us as criminals and thugs and, and then perpetuate that racism. Because I do believe, and I'm not, I'm not giving anybody excuses, right. I believe that that store clerk that approached me was, it was. She was very young. First of all she, she was probably 22, 23 years old. Believe that somebody. Because she could not have, she couldn't, she could not have gotten that without it being passed down. So that Oprah Winfrey show that I was telling you, how does a five or six year old become a racist? How do. And what was it? What was his answer? That's just the way it is.

Because that's all he knew.

That's all you knew. So somebody had told this young lady that black people were suspects. She, somebody told this young lady. So when we walk in and even if, because the person that there are some people that I know, like my son in law who, if he's given a description that all, you know, a black person in a hoodie, he's going to Ask some other questions. Well, wait a minute, that's too general, right? That doesn't make any sense to him. And I know him. He would say it just like that. Jesse, a black person in a hoodie, that's dumb, right? And he might use some other choice words because, you know, he brings it out like that. The fact of the matter is, we gotta train people that you can't say a black person in a hoodie or a black person was a suspect. You have to treat us the same way you would treat anyone else. If you're gonna make a dis. Like you said, I like the words you use a detailed description. Don't. Don't give me a generalization. Because then that makes if in. Jess, how tall are you?

Six, two.

You're six two. I'm five, nine. So if they're gonna. If they're gonna come at, you know, and say, hey, you know what? I saw a black man. That means Jess is a suspect. That means Shonda's a suspect. Right? Craig Knight, who's on the phone, he's a suspect. Brandon Ward's a suspect. Every black man that walked into that store with a hoodie on was a suspect. So I think one of the things that we have to do as a society is fix the brand of the black man. The brand of the black man should be more about the people. And what did Dr. King say? The content of your character, not focusing on the color of our skin.

And while you're fixing the brand of the black man or correcting or up leveling, let's fix and correct the brand of the intelligence of others to be accepting of all people.

Exactly what it does. At the end of the day, we all say Starbucks. We don't go Starbucks. Some white dude made Starbucks. You know, it's a white establishment. We never do that. We never classify it that way. We classify. And I'm just gonna throw this out there. Jess, I have always been cognizant of people pigeonholing some new marketing into being a black firm. And a lot of people don't like that. But I'm telling you right now, before I'm a black firm, I am a firm that provides services and marketing and communication and what I'm telling black folks and people that own black owned businesses. It's about the service that you're providing. And guess what, by the way, you. You get the extra special sauce of me being this brother with some good chocolate flavor, right?

Fair enough.

You get, you get the, you get the. You get Jesse, you get Jesse. Pharrell. Who has been this way since he was a young man, bringing you this wisdom. And by the way, he is a chocolate brother that can.

And you know, I like for you to say it like this. A chocolate brother like no other. That's how I like.

That's what I'm talking about. Bring some extra flavor.

Well, you bring a great deal of flavor to it. I love what you brought to Lisa and I the opportunity to create the virtual breakthrough success breakfast. And with that virtual breakthrough success breakfast, we get, we get an opportunity to help people grow their emotional intelligence, help them to grow, like you just said, effective communication and how to manage difficult conversations. Those are the different topics and things we're bringing to the table because of you, Shondell and that connection, because that early love affair we had the bromance going on thanks to Lisa. We turned the bromance into a real relationship, as you say. So. So that was really huge. And, and so my shout out to Lisa for being cognizant of how you always left you and I always left her feeling. By the way, Lisa, if there's someone giving comments that you want to bring up to the studio upstairs, let let us know and Shawndo and I will. If it's a comment or question, we were happy to take that on. We're going to be ending this in about five minutes or so. So if you want to bring that up, Lisa, you can certainly do that. In the meanwhile, Chandel, everything you said is so powerful. I hope the people listening and viewing this, even if they've heard it before, I hope they heard it new this time from you. And you said something that made me think of this as it's when you think about your. Your son in law, we really live in a global community. We really do. And I love this. I've shared this with you before. Got it from a visit to South Africa. And they say imuntu ingamutu inga bantu. That translates is people are people because of others.

Right?

You are who you are because of that incredible father that you have, that incredible mother that you had, that great family that you grew up in, your great. Your grandmother that told you that you were. Other people were telling that you were not. We are who we are because of other people, period.

I want to add one more person that people don't know who I called my summer mom, Carolyn Rhodes. And Carolyn sometimes watches our podcast. Carolyn was in Vermont, owned a farm. Her and her husband Howard, they brought me in from age 8, I think to about 12 or 13. And I got to experience living on a farm with all white people.

You sound like Dennis. Dennis Rodman. I just watched a piece on Dennis Rodman. Dennis Rodman never would have made us into the NBA if it wasn't for the family that had him on a farm just like my family. It wasn't. He was 21 and the kid was 11. And Dennis and this kid struck up a friendship. So the kid brought Dennis home and then he stayed there for like a few years. Did you know that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, this was my mom's brilliance. I got to give her credit. Like, she wanted to be me, to be a part of a group called the Fresh Air Fund. And the Fresh Air Fund took the kids from the city and took them into the country. So I went to spend time with this family and we. And they became today. Still Today we connect and we talk. And Arlene did not believe this story, right? She would not. She's like, you kidding me? Until Carolyn came and stayed with us. Wow. Wow. And showed her pictures. And she's like, wow. And you gotta see me. Just my little afro. And I'm around these kids, you know, they got the mop top from the 70s, right? Right.

Oh, I gotta see those photos. Lisa's upstairs. Lisa's gonna show this before you do that, because you brought that family. And I've said this many times before as well. If it wasn't for my fourth grade teacher, Sandy Essen Price, telling me what a special student she thought I was, she looked nothing like me. Very, very attractive Caucasian woman. And if one of her. Donna Ludwig, who's Donna Ludwig Peterson now, I never would have perfected my. My creativity and my art. She allowed me to come to her home anytime I wanted. I spent as much time in her home as Lisa Ludwig did, as Shauna Ludwig did, as Alan Ludwig did. All of her kids, Destiny, all of them. And so if such a great fraternity of people that welcomed not just said you, you can come in. They welcomed and gave their very best to make sure I reached my very best. So thank you for. For that. Lisa. What. What have you got for us, Brandon?

Brandon Ward says diversity training is needed.

All over the world.

Starbucks did it nationally after they went viral.

That's good. Wow.

That is good.

Thank you.

Good job, Brandon. It is needed all over the world.

Yes, it is.

And from our ours truly Tiara some new is a veteran owned, woman owned, black owned firm. Take your pick. We offer all the flavors.

You go.

She missed one, Jess. Alone five people. We fine.

But Tiara, Tiara was bringing that you know she's going to squeeze your neck for that one, right? Chandelier. What else you got, ladies?

George Thomasini.

George Thomasini, Great guy.

There's a general assumption that when people and their different communities don't belong and that they're engaged in drug activity and unfortunately, it becomes profiling. It always leads a bad case.

Wow.

George Thomasini. He's right. It leaves a bad taste because it becomes profiling. Thomasini, he's a wonderful, up and coming, outstanding speaker. He's a police officer, and I met him actually in Chicago at the cops.

They're.

They're their global convention that they give, and he's the wonderful guy. So, Saul, I'm glad he spoke up.

And then secondly, he said you were amazing at cops.

He said that you were. That was very nice of him. It was. You know what? I wanted that. You know what, Shonda? I won't go long, but I gotta tell you, when I was in front of that audience, I knew I had to earn my keeper because I wasn't a police officer or former police officer, and I wanted to connect with that audience. I want to hold them. And once I got them, I wasn't gonna let them go Shondell until I got off the stage. And that was my goal.

I am not surprised. I think you again, it goes back to that universal P that you have, and you do that great with the breakthrough success plan. Hey, Lisa, you know, we got a lot of comments. Can we. Can we extend a few minutes on our podcast? You guys go with that?

Do you have some comments? Yeah, let's. Let's see. Let's go. Let's see what you got.

Well, first of all, let me just make sure my daughter understands this, because she's saying she'll add fine after I'm gone. I gotta remind her.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait. That was Tiara, right? You see this? What is this? What is this?

No, not yet.

No. No, this is for Tiara. What is this? This is a mic, right?

Microphone.

Right.

No, I'm gonna pick that microphone back up.

Okay, Go ahead. It's on you. Here you go.

There's nothing. And Lisa, let me tell you something. I saw the beautiful pictures of you and your kids, but there's nothing like the original. Those guys are 2.0. They're new and improved, but there's nothing like the original version. Let's just make sure they understand that. How you like that, Lisa? I love it. And then Brandon asked us a question. What is my advice to a Caucasian audience? My Advice to a Caucasian audience is always the same. It is judge people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. I think Martin Luther King nailed that one. I think you have to look at Jesse, you have to look at Shonda, you have to look at Brandon, you have to look at Craig Knight, you have to look at Lawrence Weekley, you have to look at Barack Obama. You have to look at. You have to look at any of the other politicians or public figures as people. Because I did.

I was just gonna say that. I was just.

God, I was gonna say that's why. That's why I got the mic.

Yeah, yeah. And let me just borrow for a second. I'll give it right back to you. People as people. So, Brandon, I would say my recommendation is right where Shonda list. My advice to a wide audience listening to this is know this. At the end of the day, when you cut, you bleed red. Nobody bleeds a different color than red. We all bleed the same color inside the corpuscles, the veins, the intestines. Everything about our makeup inside of us is the same as yours. People are people because of others. My advice to white people is listen to the word imuntu ingamuntu ingabantu. People are people because of others. Know that we all need one another. We're all connected. Don't let this whole global calamity thing with this whole. This virus situation. This is. I think part of this intention is to get us to slow it down, get back to basics and understand we all do need each other. Go ahead.

What should happen in the situation of our move? What should happen in that situation is everybody should be disgusted. It shouldn't just be. The black people are disgusted. And this is where the media. This is where the media. And in fact, I'll take this. The sports world came up and said, Tom Brady, a few others said we're disgusting.

Many of my people that are showing that disgust. So that's.

If you are a Caucasian, white, here's what I want you to understand. Don't stand by idly and let things happen. Because what was the other thing that said? If you are sitting back watching these things happen and you're not saying anything about it, you are just as guilty as those people. So if you did watch this young man get killed down the road, if it would think about this, if it was your son or if it was a white kid, would you have reported that crime?

Absolutely.

I like that video. Just think about it. If it's any person, would you report it right away? Or would you hold on to it? Would you. You would report it right away? Absolutely. That. And do it as if that is a person's life. That's somebody's son, that's somebody's sister, that's somebody's brother, that's somebody's family member who is impacted by that action. So if you. I like that. Call it.

Well said. Well said, Shonda. I'll let you have the last two minutes. You bring this home on the last two minutes. You want to share some other things that people are saying. Is that what you're.

You know, I think this was.

At least has one more. What is. Speak up, please.

Ironically, the media uses the police as a tool as well, and then they use that to turn us all against each other.

I don't think he's wrong. He says, ironically, sometimes, oftentimes the media will use the police as a tool, then use that to flip them against each other or against us. Or us against them.

So.

Yeah, and that's. But, but. But George Thomas saying. That's what I said earlier. We don't know all the facts. I said that because so oftentimes things are slanted for a particular persuasion that we don't know about.

Yeah.

So that's why Lisa and I don't. We don't watch the news.

And I'll be. I'll be perfectly honest with everybody on this call. The worst racist. The worst racist act did not come from white people with me most of the time, it actually came from people who look like me.

Wow.

People don't like that. That's their problem to deal with. But in most cases, are you saying.

Like, they could be, like. It could be, like, black on black racism? Is that what you're saying? Well, it is.

What it is is that some people feel that, you know, some news should not be in the spaces that they're in. Some people feel that Shondel should not be in the space that he's in. Some people feel that. How dare you? Or. And so you do have that crabs in the barrel thing going on. But I think all or you shouldn't be articulate. Right. Shonda, why you don't sound black. Why you don't sound like you from Brooklyn.

Yo, son.

You know, I'm supposed to be chilling on. You know, I'm supposed to come like that, but if I don't come like that, then you're challenging me. And I've been told this many times, Jess, that you're not black enough.

I've lived that as well.

I get It.

My own mother told me that. My own mother told me that right into the review Journal. My first article written was to the re. Journal after situation with my mother and I entitled it Black on Black Prejudice.

Yeah.

Wow.

What were you saying, Lace?

That's a whole nother.

Oh, it's a way. Another great. Another show. So. So. So we'll put that in a separate place. Maybe we'll pick that up one time.

What.

What happened? Not just with us, but with other people. Were they getting it from within their own circle? So that would be cool.

Well, I'll tell you what. There's a couple of things I just want to touch on and you got them some behind you. I think the breakthrough. Breakthrough Success Plan is one of those things. Learn about other people, learn about yourself. I think effective communication is paramount. Effective. Effective not just because some people think they're communicating just because they talk.

Right.

Effectively.

Yeah.

Right, Right. It's not running your mouth, but run your mouth with a purpose. Right?

That's right.

And the thing that I know is that we have to learn how to communicate with each other. We have to educate culturally because a culture, a cultural lesson is bigger than any other lesson. You can have 100%.

You know why? Because it sticks like glue.

Right.

And.

And because like you can't. You can't respect people as people until you start understanding people. Right? You understand people. That's right. So all of that comes back full circle. And why I love what you guys do with. With, with the Breakthrough Success plan is helping people to come to that realization. Helping people to.

To.

To really talk about who they are. What is it?

Oh, how.

How do they, you know, how do you communicate with other people?

You know what, Shonda? You just said something. I. I know you've got so much going on in your camp, but after we get off this, I want to have a three minute call. I have a. I don't want to even mention what it is. I'll tell you after the call. Let me just say this because what you said, the Breakthrough Success Plan, that, that a few of the Urban Chamber members are part of right now. Yesterday's session is. We have a group session every Wednesday at 1:00'. Clock. And I'm telling you, everything you just said was like you were eavesdropping on the session. You should have seen that.

You didn't see me up in the corner.

I was, I had a hard time closing the session because everything you just said is what they're gaining. They were. It was oozing out of each and every member that was on that, on the zoom session. And we do not do zoom sessions. Like, I'm not gonna put other people down. But when you are on one of our zoom session, you're gonna participate one way or another. You're not gonna just gonna sit there and hear it all and we're just gonna blast all of our knowledge. No, we like, we like community IQ and we created this community IQ that I'm telling you, it was hard to shut it down because of everything you just said.

I believe it. I believe it. And you know, and it goes back to always. What we talk about is how you leave people feeling. Because that's really important is if you want, if you want to ask the question, what should white people do? What should black people do? What should Hispanics do? What should anybody in the world do is think about. Think about how somebody. Somebody feels. So think about how mom feels. If you see something that's real bad, think about how that person feels. Think about. If you start thinking about how people feel, you will. It will change every way that you do things. And that's what I always do. I look at how do people feel?

How.

How would a person feel if I do this? How would a person feel if I do that? And I focus on that first.

I love it. I love it. That's a great way to take us home. Tell people how they can get a hold of you, Shonda. How can people find you?

Just. Just call Jess. No. On all social media platforms. I'm there. I'm getting better at Instagram. I'm on Twitter. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Facebook. Hit me up that way. That's the best way to converse with me.

That's awesome. That's awesome. People can also catch us at justtalk.com J-E-S-S-T-A-L k.com that's our website. Can take a look. I'd love for you to go to YouTube and look at some of the YouTube videos, the sizzle reel from our speaking engagements and make some comments, share your thoughts about that. Also on LinkedIn and Facebook as well. Both personally and just talk on Facebook. We would love for people to connect with us there and love to have you see some two, three minute videos. Just quick things and take a look. But this was a great program. Program. I loved how it rolled out. Shondale, you always bring your energy and your magic and your authenticity more than anything else. So thank you for that. We'll close the program.

Sa.