Untold Stories Up Close & Personal With Bubba Knight

Foreign. Welcome to our Brothers in Conversation podcast, powered by Jesse and Shondell. Shondell, you are from Bed Sty. Dua Die.

Brooklyn. That little town.

That's a little town. That's nothing like Hawthorne, Nevada. Population 5,000 cats and dogs.

That's not. That's not me buzzing, is it? Because that was a buzz.

Like, I don't see this does. Do you. Do you hear it on your end?

I didn't hear a buzz.

I didn't Sean down. Oh, nothing.

Okay. I think we're all. I think we're okay.

Yeah, I think that was just a shot from the powers up above saying we're gonna have a dynamite program. I think that that's what the buzz was.

Oh, I feel it. You're talking about the spirit, right? Come on now. Hello.

Yeah.

I'm connected with the spirit. Oh, yeah, yeah. I followed the spirit.

Well done. Well done. Well, I'm gonna say our introduction is. Welcome to our special edition of Brothers and Conversations, powered by. Okay, Jesse and Shondell. Shondell it is. And this is gonna. This episode is amazing. Episode number 39, January 15th, Untold Stories, up close and personal with Bubba Knight. Bubba. Yeah. I don't. Listen, you've been introduced many times all over the world, so I won't go super long on this, but you have some powerful stuff I like to pop out there for people that. Lisa did a little research for us on that. I want to say. How about this?

Okay.

An original founding member of Gladys Knight and the Pips, founded in 1952. Is that correct?

That's correct.

Okay, got it. And performing artist for more than 63 years, man.

Oh, yeah.

You don't even look like you're 63. How could you be performing for 63 years?

Come on, Jess. I started when I was 10.

Okay, fair enough. Okay, okay, fair enough. That makes more sense now. That makes more sense now because you. You got all your teeth, and you still can grow hair on your face. And so.

Hey, man. Quarantine, man. Quarantine. Come on, Joe.

Can I just say, you look like a young Craig kn.

So. So. But because I want this to be a vibrant introduction, so I want to say a few more things about you, former. Former president of Perfection and Performance, Inc. Tell me real quickly, what is perfection and performance before I go further.

Well, that was a corporation that we had our group performing under.

Okay, got it.

Performing. And if you look at it, the acronyms, it's pip.

That's right. Oh, that is that. So that's where the pitch came for Hello. Come on. Wow.

Oh, no, no, not. That's not what the Pip saying. There's a story behind that that I, that I'll share with you once we get into the conversation.

Well, here's the thing. I'm going to say a couple more things and I want that story right away because I do not want to forget because I, I. My version of the Pips and what your version is, yours is probably more accurate because I was thinking Pip daddy. Almost like pimp daddy. Okay.

Oh, no, look, there were so many people trying to link up with pimp. Including Johnny. Johnny Carson. Yeah, including Johnny Carson. He cleaned it up.

Fair enough. Fair enough.

Yeah.

If Johnny Carson cleaned it up, then I promise you I'll keep it clean. So here we go. No problem.

No problem.

Recording artists for mca, Columbia, Buddha, Motown, Max, VJ Fury. I think that's Huntum and Brunswick Records. Hunt.

Hunt. Tom. There like two different people like Hunt, because. Yeah, one of the honor owners was named Hunter.

Okay.

And one of the owners was named Tom.

Oh, gotcha.

So they name, they split it Hunt. Tom.

Hunt Tom. Got it. Okay, fair enough.

Yeah. And story behind that.

I like that. Save that. Story number two, one of the first African American musical groups to have a TV summer replacement series, Gladys Knight and the Pips on NBC television, 1975. Dude, I can tell you right now, that was a major anomaly back in the day because all we had was black and white way back, so performed around the world, including Japan, New Zealand, Australia, England, Germany, Italy, Spain, Holland, Canada, South America, Norway, Dubai and various Caribbean countries. I got a funny feeling you've been around the world. So welcome to the program. I, I am, I am looking forward to start with that story number one, you wanted to unpack about the Pip, okay?

It's. It's Pips, okay? It. The name of the group is Glass nine. The Pips, as you will know.

Okay.

Now the, the name Pip came from my cousin James Woods. His nickname was Pip, okay? And he spent all of his money and drove his car, took her to engagements and all of those kinds of things. And we decided to honor him by naming the group the Pips. Because the group was named the Knights, right?

The little.

The Night, the little Knight family, right? But we had two cousins in there that were. Who were guests. Their name was Eleanor and William Guest.

Okay?

So we wanted a name of the group that can encompass everybody.

I love that. You know, let me tell you first off, and Shonda, I want you to weigh in after me on this one. Tell you what I love about that what's cool about that, Bubba, is oftentimes in the world that you came in professionally, most people get really dominating about their name and their ID and their stamp and their signature. I love the fact that even though all that was going on around you, you guys were very, very inclusive. That's huge. What about you?

You got it. I love it. That that was our whole motivation. We felt like if we all headed in the same direction, if we all became. Come together and be a group, my Mama Knight always told us there's.

There's.

There's success in numbers, right? And there's power in numbers. So she taught us to stick together and go together and head in the same direction, and we can get anywhere we want to go with heavenly father leading us.

You know what I love about that? That a very simple concept. Mama Knight taught you. A very simple concept that most people complicate, Bubba.

Yep.

They do. They do. And you know what, Bubba?

I. I put.

I put a. A question out there. I said, what did Bubba Knight teach Shonda?

Oh, Lord. Oh, Lord. No, you did. No, you didn't.

No, you didn't give everybody the answer, right? I need to give everybody the answ.

Answer. What did you.

The answer is, Bubba Knight taught Shondell how to do the correct selfie.

That's right. That's right. I told Shondell. I said, chandelle, you gotta put it in a cradle, buddy. You got a cradle. You got a cradle that I.

Rock that baby. Rock that baby. Well, this is good. Well, you know. You know, you guys, actually. You and your. And your family, I'm going to tell you the truth. You make it look easy. You make it look simple. Make it easy. But I think that. And you weigh in, Bubba. I think when you've got a professional, no matter what their profession is, but in the entertainment world, there's so much more than meets the eye. And so. But you guys make it look easy, you make it look smooth. But. But I think when you can do that, there's far more in depth work behind that to make it look easy.

Just.

Just.

I gotta tell you one thing that Bubba told me. Now, Bubba, you remember this because Craig always repeats. Bubba said everybody don't understand that his show business is 10. 10 show and 90 business. I never forgot that.

Right? Right.

That's right.

So. So thank you for that, Shonda. So, Bubba, weigh in on that. That most people, when they see. Because you guys make it look smooth, you make it look elegant. Not to mention you got some major success with gold records. And platinum records and, you know, big record contracts, blah, blah, blah. Right, right, right. Tell us, break it down for us about what was it like? What has it been like for you in making it look so simple? But tell us what. What's behind that.

Okay, Jess, this is the key. We all felt like if we are passionate, like Mama Knight told us, if we're passionate about what we're doing, you put in extra work. We had a choreographer. Speaking of the choreographical part of it, we had a choreographer, his name was Charlie Atkins.

Okay.

Who choreographed many, many groups. The OJs, the Manhattans, and you, Temptation. You name them. Okay. Pops. When I say Pops, I'm talking about Charlie Atkins.

Right.

He would teach us to the choreographical moves, and we would practice them. And I would practice even after the sessions were done.

Nice.

So that the next day when Pops came in to add another segment, I would already have the first segment down so he could move quickly. And when doing that, we practiced and practiced what we used to say. You. You eat it, you dream it, you sleep it, you. You perform it. You do all of that. So that's what makes smooth transitions when you're standing in front of an audience, because you know it.

Oh, yeah.

You don't. You don't have to think about it. It's intuitive. It's native. Yes, yes.

There you go.

That's powerful.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just like my home out there in Kansas City. He's got an innate kind of a feeling about being a quarterback, so when. When things break down, he's smooth. And so it's the same thing. It's the same thing as. As performing. When we performed on stage, if something went awry, if. If a microphone fell over or. Or if. If anything distracted us on stage. You have it in a. You have it so much in eight in you that you can move on smoothly and the audience would never know.

You make the adjustment, is the point.

Wow. That's it.

You make the adjustment. Yeah.

I remember when I was. Yeah, I was in. I had the privilege of performing in Smokey Joe's Cafe.

Right, right.

And. And we had costumes on and part of the costume on the guy that was in front of me. When the four of us was singing a song, his. His equipment fell off. It fell off in the middle of the stage where we had to dance. Right. So what happened was I could. I choreographed the routine that I had to circle around that piece that was on the floor, and I reached down and got it and threw it off the Stage like that. And people thought that was in the act.

But you know what? But you, Bubba, you couldn't have done it. You couldn't have done that. You would not have had that innate display. If you were worried about getting the moves right, getting the moves down, you'd have no concern over that.

That's it. That's where that practice came in right there, man. Because it was already in there. You know that part. Now you gotta add a little something, but you can keep that part to continue.

I like that. Can I add a touch to that? You're saying this. I know what you're saying, and I know Shondell will weigh in on this too. You're talking. You're talking about the practice being the magic. I'm hearing you say that. However, I don't think it's just practice. I think you diagnose. You and your team and your family diagnose the best way to practice. Because the saying says, practice makes perfect. People believe that it's not true. But perfect practice makes practice perfect.

There you go.

So in other words, you practice the right stuff consistently. Because practicing alone is not going to get you there if you're not practicing the right stuff.

Right.

You got it, Jeff.

Sound like my golf game.

And pops. Charlie Atkins and Maurice King, musical conductor, used to drill that in us.

Yes.

They say. They say practice like you're on stage.

Correct.

You practice. You don't. You don't. You don't. Just don't run through steps and run through the harmonies and all that. You practice like you're doing it in front of somebody.

Right? Right.

Audience.

Right.

And that gives. That. Gives you that confidence, man. When the curtain goes up, boom.

Showtime.

Bam.

Showtime. Showtime. I love that. So, so, so growing up, so in the early, early, early stages, the universal scene, did you have a. I know you had a dream, likely, but did you. Did you. Did you guys set goals? Did you dream? Did. How did you. Did you know that you. Did you believe you were going to be this major sensation in the music? Because a very competitive. It still is, but it was very competitive when you got. Especially for people of color, because there was a lot. There was a lot of COVID artists getting out in front, doing our stuff and putting it out there. And a lot of times we were in the backdrop. So what was that like for you?

Well, actually, when we came together, when we would meet and practice, we said, we want this practice in this group, in this family to be the best that it ever was.

I like that.

So we got to stay in There we got to do what we're going to do, and we're gonna have to deal with the ups and downs and all of the obstacles that gonna. That's gonna come in front of us because we knew they were out there. But if we stayed together like Mama. Mama Knight taught us, and. And go ahead and. And go forward, keep our dreams alive, to be the best group and the best entertainers that we could be, we'll get there. Putting him in front of us.

I tell you what I like about.

You know what, Jess? I. You know, I. I always love. I could listen to Bubba all day long. I can listen to him, man. You know, there's something that. That you said that I love, and it goes back. You know, today is Dr. King's birthday, right? His. His birthday. So, you know, I always live by a quote that he says, the ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in times of comfort and convenience or where he stands in times of challenge and controversy.

Amen.

Last year was a bunch of challenge, right? We. We both lost our pastor, right?

Oh, yeah.

We had a lot of close family members, I believe, you know, you. You had some close family members.

I had family members, yes.

And so with life hitting us that hard, what. What do you tell these people on our podcast? How do you continue on to. To smile like you do and live like.

Right.

You always light and light up a room, man.

I love it. Thank you. Thank you, bro. Well, mom and night always told us that there are going to be times, they're going to be dark days, but you have to keep the focus, and you have to. That's the time when you strengthen your faith, all right? And you go inside and you say you believe and you go toward. Everything is going to be all right. We would get past this. This is not the only obstacle or this is not the only problem that we're going to run into in life, especially being black.

Right, right.

Being a brother and a sister, man.

During that time. Yeah, yeah.

During that time, Mama Knight told us that, you know what? You're gonna have to be 10 times better. You're gonna have to be 10 times better than. Than any of the other races that's out there.

And, you know, and if you think.

That way and if you. And if you head that direction and give it all you got from the bottom of your soul and keep the faith and drive ahead, you'll get there.

Well, I love what. I love that. I love that thought, and I love that mom and I taught you that. I love that you Guys lived into it. But what I like about that is rather than feeling like you got an albatross around your neck because of the nature of the color of your skin, I see that. That for. For me, and I'm seeking to relate to you with this is as I see myself being challenged early in the early days because of my complexion. I see that as. As a challenge. I don't see that as an albatross. And I believe that that was given to people that will. That have the endurance to survive and to thrive and to bust through regardless of what the circumstances are. Right.

That's right. I love it. That's me.

So to me. To me, I don't see being black as a punishment or as. Or as a unlevel, unfair. If things in life were fair, we wouldn't learn a damn thing. Okay?

Right.

There's a lot of things in life that's not fair. Not just being black in a predominantly white environment or predominantly white culture or predominantly white world. That makes the rules. Many things in life aren't fair. That's what makes you get up off your butt and do something to balance the sides or. Or excel.

Exactly. Jess. I'm telling you, you and Shondale. I just want to tell you that my blackness, I was so proud of it even before James came out with I'm Black and I'm Proud. You know, say it loud. I'm black and I'm proud. I was already proud when we were working on those. When those tours back there and we were traveling through the South.

Yep.

And. And anytime. Like, say, for instance, I'm gonna bring it up a little bit further. When we were headlining, I mean, when we were performing at the Las Vegas Hilton Hotel a long time ago, I was so proud to headline at. Be a Headliner at the Las Vegas Hilton Hotel. And we had just opened up for Goldie Hun.

Right.

Golden Han was a big stone laughing.

Right, Right. That's right.

And so she wanted to break into the live performance, like in the. In the showroom.

Right.

So they had us to open for her. After the show, Baron Hilton came down to our dressing room and said, you know what? I loved your act. Would you like to headline in my hotel?

Wow. I just got chilled.

Hilton, man. What is that? That Paris Daddy, right?

Yes. Wow.

Anyway, he came out there and he said, I like y' all so much, I want you to headline. And that's when we got a chance to headline at the Las Vegas Hilton, where. That was Presley's. That was Presley Stir for sure.

For sure. Big time. Big time. Big time.

And as. And as an African American, I'm going like, whoa, we really making a difference?

Yes.

You know, we're making a freaking difference, man. And I'm proud to be black. Cause I'm opening the door for some of my other brothers and sisters.

Absolutely.

Come on now, you make me proud. And I'll tell you what, that is a great story. Because Jess and I both work in the industry, in the gaming hospitality industry, and we know how big that is. That is phenomenal.

Well, what Shondell is. What Shondale's saying. Bubba is Shondell. I didn't know him back in the day, and he didn't know me. We didn't know each other even existed. But in similar time zones, as he was making his way up through the corporate ranks as an executive, I was doing the same thing. And I never met anybody else in the industry that looked like me or had even close to the complexion at my position or higher. It just. It just wasn't there. So what Shondell was saying, we know it from an inside perspective, not just from what you see in the news. We lived it. I'm sitting in a boardroom at Horse du Jour. Was the president of the Flamingo Hilton at the time. There are 14 executives in the room. I'm the. I'm the. I'm the lowest level executive. The rest are VPs. And then the president comes in. And before the president comes in, I got one vp, reaches across the table and say, hey, Jess. He says, do you realize you're the only black person in this room?

Wow.

I said, no, not until you mentioned it. Right? Right now. I mean, come on now. Never mind. This dude has some issues. Because this guy, Let me tell you about his complexion. This dude was Cuban. He was Cuban. Do you know how close to being black you are being Cuban? What you talking about? Just because my hair ain't straight, that didn't mean I can't hold my own hair, right? So to Shondell's point, we lived what you lived. You lived it on a bigger stage than Shondell and I did. We were kind of. We welcomed you. We were executives welcoming people like you to those stages.

There you go.

Because that's what we did. But your sister Gladys, I saw a piece and talking about what you said about the south, and she said something. I'll never forget this because I've used this. She said she. The interviewer asked her about the difficulties of the south and the colored bathrooms and the separate bathroom all that stuff at the time.

Yep.

And she said when she was told that you had to do two shows, one for the Caucasian people in the evening, and if they were going to do a show where black people come, they have to do a separate show at a different time in the basement.

I'm gonna tell you.

Yes. And so that's it. So go ahead, take it off from there. Take it from there.

Yeah. We walked to A Down south, and what happened was it was D. Clark on the show. Jerry Butler was on the show. There were about four. Four other acts. I think Solomon Burke was on the show. And when we rolled into town, we were doing a bunch of one nighters on the from on the Bus tour. Okay. Supersonic attractions. I never forget. Declod went on, and we had to go through the downstairs of the auditorium to the basement.

Yes.

Where they had the brothers and the sisters down there at a dance. You know, it was a dance. Everybody was just crowded in this basement. No seats, no nothing. Just crowded. And they had a little area for. Excuse me. For us to perform, right. A little square. So we. We would go in that little area right there, and the audience was surrounding us.

Wow.

All right. And we performed. And. And I'll never forget this. I gotta tell y' all this. When D clock went on. When D clock went on, he had. He had this song called, hey, Little Girl with the High School Sweater. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like you better.

Right?

Right. He had that on, right? And D Clock went out there, song hey, Little Girl in the High School Sweater. And boy, these sisters went mad. They went crazy. And they. And they charged. They charged the stage, right?

Yeah.

And. And they got a hold of. D Clock was a. You know, he was a real lady, man, right? D Claw was a killer, right? Anyway. Anyway, they charge the stage and they grabbed the car, man, and he was trying to get away from it. And this is the time we didn't have no security, right? What you talking about, security? You better. You better fight for yourself, right? Throw them dupes up, my brother. Anyway, anyway. Come on. Chest chandel. So this is what I never forget. We went on after Declaw, but Declaw ran off the stage, man. He was sweating.

And.

And when he got where we were, D Clog had on these. This gray silk suit. I'll never forget it. It was gray. A shark skin. I don't know what y'.

All. Yes, I do. I do.

Shark skin. Silk. Look, and. And Declaw, when he got to us, his pants was ripped up so bad. It was a dress they threw his pants off.

Wow. Wow. No, but that's. That's so cool. So. So stories like that. That. That's the joy behind the inequities. There was joy. The point, I take from that, Bubba, there was joy behind the inequities to me.

Oh, yeah.

You know what I mean? Most people think it was just all bad. Yeah, it was very difficult. It was very hard. But you just brought some. Some light, some joy behind that inequity being in the basement and this dude doing this thing and the sisters clamming up to the stage to get him.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And to follow up on that jest, this is what happened after that show. After we finished with the brothers and sisters downstairs, the promoters, which. Which Mr. Wynn had some. Had some white people out front that was promoting us. You see how it worked, right? It was his. He owned supersonic attraction, right? But he had some white people going, doing the. Picking up the money and. And.

And.

And like seeing. Over the. The whole show.

Sure.

All right.

Sure.

So they came and told us that. Okay, you finished this show downstairs. Now I want you to. For an hour, I want you to prepare because we're going to take you upstairs, right? We're going to take you upstairs for you to do the same show upstairs. And when we got upstairs, there was theater seats for the white folks. It was the eighter seats and a stage.

Right.

And the whole shot.

Big time. Big time.

That was. Yep. That was the difference between playing that auditorium. We played for the brothers and sisters in the basement. And then after our show in the basement, we went upstairs to perform to the white audience. I mean, pure white audience.

Okay.

No brothers and sisters, all white.

Yeah.

And so how did you feel about that? Well, how would you. I mean, I didn't like it. Okay.

Okay. Just Justin Chandelle. This is how I felt about it. I said, you know what? I have a platform. I'm an entertainer. I'm gonna try to be as popular as I can be so I can make a difference. Cause one day, them same white people that's up there in the theater seats and them same brothers and sisters out here in this basement, I'm gonna see them come together like this and enjoy me performing and singing.

Wow.

All right.

You know what's powerful about what Bubba's saying about the Come together, enjoy, enjoy me. Because he. Because he's bringing his. They are bringing their talents and their expertise and their work and their effort and their heart and their belief and their faith to the stage.

You got it.

His Sister Gladys Knight said what you just said on that same piece. She said, and I don't remember the Super Bowl. I don't remember the number. But she. She said at the end, she. She told the story like you're telling, and she said she wanted to come together just like you just said. And then she says, imagine that to. Tomorrow we are performing at the Super Bowl. That's what Everybody coming together. Do you remember that? I didn't hear that, but yes, that's what she said. So she said the same thing you just said. Her dream and her. Her thing was to perform in a collective body because you guys hit the stage for everybody. Not for white people and not for black people.

You got it right.

I'll say this, Bob. I think you guys. You know, I don't. I don't know if people appreciate what you guys have done, because you guys brought people together.

Correct? Well said.

That's right.

And let me just tell you this, Jess. Growing up in New York City, right? And what I love about Gladys Knight and the Pimps is the fact that they transcended generations.

Yes.

I remember them getting into hip hop.

Remember that?

Yes.

Was it Love Overboard?

What song was it? You guys got more into hip hop.

Yeah, Love. No, it was saved over time for me because we introduced the first break dancers in that video.

Wow.

We shot that video in New York City in the street. All right.

Yeah.

And I had never. I had never. I said, God, these guys down. They on the concrete, dancing and breaking and jumping. And that one guy was spinning around. Spinning around on his wrist and doing it. I mean, he was. I'm going like, this is amazing. Hey. I'm going like, wait a minute, Wait a minute now. I'm one of those. Cor. We're one of those groups that go like, bam, bam, boom, Footwork and all right, Right, right. Don't tell me. We gotta go that.

Come on. Now.

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

Because I remember. I remember showing my dad the video because, you know, that's when videos were getting hot, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I showed my. My dad was like, oh, man, you don't know. You don't know nothing about Gladys 9 of Pips.

Let me show you.

So we connected and bonded on that.

Well, it's. Yeah, man, that's. That's so many amazing things. When I. When you're telling these stories, I'm thinking about that Shawndell and I, even though, like, again, you, You. You and your family had it on that big stage. So it was actually much More difficult being on. Being looked at by billions of people, you know?

Yeah.

Especially during those difficult time because you had to keep your grace. You got. You had to. You couldn't say exactly what was on your mind all the time, otherwise you wouldn't get to be on that stage. You know what I'm saying? So you had to be very graceful about that. So I want to put a connection. Shonda talks about growing up in New York. I grew up in Northern Nevada, Reno, the first five years, in Hawthorne, Nevada, the next 12. It was predominantly white areas. And it was. It was challenging there. Not. Not quite as bad as in the south, but still a lot of that. And when you think about. If you look at your birth certificate, where were you born at?

But Atlanta, Georgia. Grady Hospital.

Atlanta, Georgia.

I'm a Grady. Grady baby.

You a Grady baby. Where were you born at Shondale?

Newark, New Jersey.

Newark. Do you remember. Do you. Do you recall what they put on your birth certificate as far as the race? Do you know? Do you remember Chandel?

You know what?

I think it was black. Black. What about you, Bob? Do you remember?

I think it was. You know what? I think it was black. If it was not Negro, I had to look at my birthday.

Okay, but one or the other. Right.

But I think it was black.

Okay. And if it was black. If it was black or Negro, that would be, in your opinion, fitting, yes or no?

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, well, guess that. Well, get. Guess what's on my birth certificate.

What?

Colored.

Oh, really?

My race. My race on my birth certificate is colored because I was born in Mississippi. Oxford, Mississippi.

Oh, you got the colored stamp.

I got the color stuff. And I refuse. I refuse to live into a disposition of being colored. I'm not doing it.

There you go.

I'm not gonna let you tell me what I am. I'm gonna tell me what I am now. I had to do it gracefully.

Oh, yeah.

Or I couldn't have. I couldn't have risen. You guys had to do it. So I only tell that story. When you talk about doing your work in the South, I got a stamp of being colored and being diagnosed as being colored. I never. They're all colors in the rainbow. What color is colored? What race is color?

I want to ask you, Bubba, what's going on today? There's a lot going on today. There's a lot of talk about race and culture and even the insurrection that happened at the Capitol last week. Yes. What are you thinking? Like a person who has lived through civil rights era, through all of the things you talked about, the Jim Crow south, what are you thinking right now about what's going on in our country?

I'm appalled that what's happening right now. And I'm, I'm so upset because it's such a different standard as far as how things are done with the white world and how. How justice is done with the white world and the justice is done with. With the African American and minority world. Okay, so I'm a. Paul. And now what's happening at the. At the. Of the Capitol, I'm so, I'm. I'm so upset because it's. It's really frightening that they could have that much support and, and that much organization to. To even attempt to do something like that and then do it.

Yeah.

Oh, it just upsets me to the hilt, man. And, and like justice for George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and all of my. And, and all of. And Trayvon Martin and all of those brothers and sisters who've died, and we still have. Don't have any accountability. They could go up in the Capitol and kill one of our police. Police officers. And, And. And we're not getting any accountability. We're not getting any justice. We're not getting. And they're. They're. They're white. They've turned on each other. I'm sorry.

It's all good.

You're passionate, brother. You know why I asked you that? You know the reason I ask you that is because when you say all the work. Because like Jess said, we. We've seen it from other sides, but you have poured so much into bringing people together, and now we see some divisive and some divisions. It's. It's. It's like, man, I put in all this work. I know your work is not in vain, but it had to touch you in a certain way.

Right, Exactly. Shondale, I understand perfectly what you said, because it. It did take me back. It did. It did take me aback because, like, what I was. The story that I was. That I was telling you and Jess about that, that concert that we did for the brothers and sisters and the white sub staff.

Right.

I go back to that, because the last part of that information was the state patrol people were standing on the outside of the. Of the stage door telling us to get out of town.

Wow.

Wow.

Yeah.

The state troopers were telling us. The white state troopers were telling us, okay, you did that. Now you got to get out of our country. Out there across the state line.

Oh, wow.

Wow.

So, you know, that's another Part of it that I. That I. I left off, but that was real.

Right, so. So. So your point. Your point, Bob, is you had a lot of adversities, a lot of challenges, a lot of. I'm gonna call. I'm gonna use the word dichotomies where on one side you were okay by the people bringing you there, but by a lot of the people that may have been on the outside of that concert, you were not. Okay, so.

Right.

So you had a lot of that shift. You. You guys had to play. You had to be beyond entertainers, in my opinion. You had to go beyond being entertainers.

We were marching.

Good point.

Go ahead. We use our platform to put boots on the ground like Martin Luther King and Congressman John Lewis and them. We use our voices and our music to march along with them to make a statement about. To make change, to bring about change to make.

To make a statement to say you were saying, by you guys being the brilliant musicians and artists and entertainers that, you know. You know what you were saying to me? You were saying, we are here to stay.

Yes.

Yeah.

That's what. Your music. Your music was beautiful, but it also went beyond the musicality of it. It went beyond. It was an entrenched statement that the quality of what you had was an offering that was appreciated by all.

That's right. There's another. Another nugget that Mama Knight taught us. They said, now, although y' all young right now, I want you to respect and treat yourself in a way that. She said, I want you to treat yourself in a way and make yourself be able to sit among kings and queens.

There we go.

And still walk and. And live with your brothers and sisters.

Exactly. So you saw all of the challenges and the travesties as part of the game to. To pursue and exceed, regardless of the baggage and the bull.

Bring them together.

Yes.

I get it. You know what?

Now?

That's right. The two of you have heard this before. You ready? You ready for this gentleman? Okay. Too much is given. Much is required.

Much is required. There you go.

Period.

So we gotta. We gotta suck it up, and we got to do what we got to do.

Absolutely.

In order to reach that goal, to make things change for the better man.

To serve self and others. It's not all about you.

Yep.

If you were making it all about you, you would never been as successful as you guys have been.

That's right.

That's right.

That's what I mean. That's why. That's why I love talking to Dan Jack for hours, man. He you know, he has, you know, and it's crazy because I see some of these artists who don't have the humbleness and the spirit that you have. And so I would love to share with them. Hey, look at this guy, man. Over six decades. Imagine that in the business over six decades. He's still humble, he's still sweet and generous and loves life, man. It's like, that's why I appreciate people like you. And we always gotta. We always have a saying. We always gotta really recognize and love and respect the people like you. While you can still smell the flowers and.

And on top of all that, Shondale, he still has a 10 million dollar smile on his face. Perp.

Oh, man.

Perpetually right.

The boy.

The man hadn't stopped. The man maybe stopped smiling 2% of the time we've been on the program. My mother would say, boy, slap me, I'll knock that grin off your face. My mother would say, I'll slap the black off you, boy. And I was a thin little boy. My mother would say, boy, you ain't got enough ass to hold water.