Inside JLC: Sharper Focus - Each Agenda Item

Foreign thank you for joining us here at JLC Media. This is the Jorgensen Learning center and we've done one or two podcasts over the last two or three years and hope you enjoy this one. If you do, please hop on the site. There's lots more out there to look at. With me today are two colleagues and friends. I'll let them do a quick intro. They can hand this off to their partners. So we'd like to go first.

Hi, I'm Lena Hartzell. I retired from the Navy last year after 30 years. I'm a Dental Corps officer and was honored to serve and had some leadership positions and, and I worked with the Jorgensen Group and learned a lot from them and hopefully this will be a fun and informative conversation.

Excellent. Thank you so much and thanks again for your service. Lena and Colleen Sullivan, I've been in the majority of the podcast, I think on our website, and really looking forward to this conversation today. I've worked with the Jorgensen Learning center for, I think, 14, 13 or 14 years now, really helping executive leaders enhance their capabilities of being effective in producing whatever the desired results they're looking to achieve. And that's why I'm really excited about our topic today, because I think this is a, this is a way that you can really, if you're listening out there, take, take a few notes. I think this is something that you can embed into the way that you hold your meetings to be more effective.

Yeah, the. Thank you, both of you. Thank you, Colleen. Thank you, Lana. So what we have already done together, the three of us, is we've talked about having a clear intention for a meeting. And today, the reason why I'm going to talk about this today is the meeting itself needs to have an intention, but so does each agenda item. And all too often we simply say, well, we're going to talk about, you know, this issue or problem that we have, and everybody knows about that. Right. And then you move on. So where our intention today is to practice clear, clearly identifying what people need to understand, know, and be able to do with a given agenda item and the way we're going to do it, I'm going to have each of my colleagues give me an agenda item and then the other colleague and myself, when I, whenever there's some space where I could offer something, I'll add my own $0.02 in about how to really craft that agenda item very, very tightly. Anyhow, that's, that's our intention today. I hope you like it. I do find that people miss this point it's almost like they get the idea of having a CPO context, purpose, outcome for the meeting. And then because we're all busy, they don't always grab onto, we should be doing this for each of our agenda items. I'm going to do my best today to assist the audience in making sure that as Lena and Colleen have their chat, this particular CPO is coming out for each agenda item structure around this really matters. What are you guys hearing me saying? What are you thinking?

So I'm hearing you say that it's really important to have a CPO not only for the meeting, the overarching kind of outcomes that you're hoping for, but also for each and every agenda item. That way all the participants have an understanding of why are we talking about it, what do you want them to know and what do you want them to do? And I would also say that in. I've been in so many meetings and one of the themes that I've noticed, especially if it's, you know, I'm running a board meeting or I'm running a team meeting and we meet two or three times a week, we skip the meeting CPO and the meeting CPO you're opening is an opportunity to link to what it is you're trying to accomplish, to link to what are your priorities right now? Because sometimes they shift and change. And so I think that's critical. And so just a good reminder of, as we talk through these, be thinking about, you know, when was the last meeting you held? Were you using your meeting as an opportunity to create a shared vision of success for the year or maybe to clarify what are those priorities as. As they do shift and change?

I love it. Colleen, that's really nice. Mission first, people always is something I heard in the Navy on and on and on. And I think, and I think these folks are, this is not a criticism of any human being. They're well intentioned. But they start the meeting with, we all know why we're here today, right? And everybody nods. And then I'm going to guess 80% have a different agenda than the person that said that. Leonard, what did you hear something more or different from our little opening piece?

No, same thing. I heard that in order to have a constructive, positive, successful meeting, we need to be sure to be ready for it and come to the table without any assumptions. But to ask ourselves, have we prepared ourselves to discuss what's on the agenda? So do we know what the meeting is for? And more specifically, each agenda item, you know, have that CPO clear in your mind, because if you don't, then we won't give it the attention it deserves. You know, Dr. Malinowski used to say that all the time. Make sure you give it the attention it deserves. You're planning for it. You understand it.

You.

Because if you don't pay attention to the small things, then you won't get the big things, you know, Nice.

But I love the small things. Colleen and I have chatted about this on and off for a while now. When somebody comes to a meeting, it should not look like somebody's up there doing a theatric presentation and that you're just sitting to enjoy it or not enjoy it. There are certain things that participants, in order for the meeting to be effective, that participants need to be able to do as they walk into the meeting and sit, sit down. One of the biggest things is to participate and not expect somebody else to solve this. But we're in it together. And the participant and the meeting leader, meeting facilitator, they should be on the same intentionality page. We all want this meeting to work well. So often I've watched people sit back, make notes, drift away, open up their phone, they're gone. Therefore, the meeting can't be successful because the little piece of wisdom they have will get lost. So thank you for that. Lena just led us to another podcast, probably, but that's one that really matters. Well, let me shift into today's work. So, Colleen, give us an agenda item. Kind of give us the meeting that you were at. And that one agenda item, I'm going to let you and, and Lena speak about it. So you. Again, it's a backwards design game. We're going to eventually, we're starting with the outcome, but give us an actual real time agenda item that you. You've experienced hopefully recently.

Well, I guess I could say that a real time agenda item was just in a meeting that I was supporting. And one of the agenda items was developing the quality of the professional relationships within the team. That was the agenda item that the senior leader invited me to come and facilitate.

So what I'm hearing you say is you're facilitating in a meeting. And the agenda item was to make sure that we are intentional about developing the quality of the professional relationship. Was there a larger context for that? Like, why does that, why did that matter to them?

Absolutely. And the larger context was it was a new team, and the new team was just coming together and they've maybe been, you know, six weeks, just kind of off and on with the new leader. So some team so the leader was new, some of the teammates were new. And recognizing that they want, especially in this virtual environment, they wanted to create the best opportunities to collaborate. And you've already mentioned this. Every voice matters. And yet if we are not intentional, if we do not develop a common understanding of the importance of developing the professional relationship so we can say what's on our. What. What we're thinking, and we don't feel like somebody's going to judge us, then we might withhold. So how can we do that? In a way, every single meeting, intentionally so we produce the best plans, the best action items, the best initiatives, whatever it is we're trying to do, because this they were looking at. We know our numbers that we need to produce this year, but how can we collectively support each other so each of us hit those numbers by the end of next year.

That's really good. Thank you. Thank you. So, Lena, what are you hearing Colleen say? And what's resonating? What's sparking a. A little light bulb in the brain?

Well, so when she said they all want to collectively work together to achieve the success, I'm thinking they each will need to know what piece of the puzzle they hold in their hand. Right. I mean, so what is that person's role or function that contributes to the success of this team? And if they don't know their role or if they don't do their part, then something will be missing, and it won't be as successful as it can be.

I love it. Yeah. You're actually articulating one of the disciplines from the learning organization.

Sure.

That is the discipline is called shared vision, and that does not mean I'm going to have a vision and then share it. Discipline means each of us on this team has. Has their own. His or her own personal vision of success that must be shared with everyone so that everybody knows what we're working on. The best thing about that is if, let's say, Colleen, I know the. Her part of the team, her vision for the team, and I hear something, I read something, I see a podcast, I see something on, God forbid, social media, and all of a sudden, I see something and I say, oh, no, that's something Colleen needs to read or hear or think about. So, yes, you are talking about a very, very important discipline, and it opens the door to this conversation that lets people say, wait a minute. How do I create an agenda item that's going to begin to build that type of culture where people really feel like they belong? Colleen, let's take a right back to your example. So I, I don't overextend my language here. What do you want each person on that team. So think about this agenda. Build quality professional relationships. What do you want each person to know and be able to do? How did you characterize that?

Yeah, it was actually the senior leader did the introduction on each of the agenda items. That's generally the way I do it when I'm supporting an executive in a strategic off site or just in a. Any kind of leadership session. And so the way she laid it on the table was, you know, the importance of developing the quality relationships. So she said, we are going to learn a few ways that each of you can enhance your leadership conversations, whether virtual or in or live, that you can use with each other or with those you support. So at the end of this agenda item, each one of you can walk away with at least one thing that you will commit to doing differently to enhance the relationships with us internally as well as those who you support externally.

How did that land on you, Lana? That was nice, Colleen, and that was really cool.

Because we could all learn one way to enhance our skills, right? What some, some skill or the ability to. Whether it's to speak or do something better. So self improvement, right. And so if, but I have to be open to learning and, and so if I'm open to learning, then I will listen more intently and learn this new skill. And what a treasure. What a, what a wonderful tool belt I will have. Right? Because in my belt I will have these tools that some have collected over the years. But hey, there's a new one that I didn't know that's going to make me a better person and collectively will make this team a better team. And we'll build that relationship, a professional relationship, and that of trust so we can work together harmoniously to achieve our success.

I like that a lot. And that harmony piece, I think happens when we understand some simple things like what you just said. I think I understood that in a very strong way, that if we understand how to add something into our theories, methods and tools, our tool belt, so that we can become a better team participant, all of a sudden I start to feel more like I belong again. The funny thing about this work and what's happening in my school relationships right now, they are all struggling to make sure people feel like they belong. And if we can actually learn how to do this, what Colleen just laid on the table, each of us notice, each of us, will no one be able to use one, at least one of the different methods that we're laying on the table. That's pretty powerful. And the other thing, which I thought you did beautifully in moving this forward, Lena, is when Colleen said, each of us, there is a subtle cognitive pull into that conversation. Like if I said, okay, at the end of this conversation today, each of us, all three of us, each of us is going to write a one page document about how we enjoyed the conversation. You're getting pulled into that space almost immediately. Like, wait, I got to go. I don't have time to do that. Or, oh, you know, all things start to occur because it is a cognitive pull in a direction. It is so powerful. Oh, the outcome sounds like each of us. Will no one be able to do blank. Whatever it is. And in this case, it's to take one of the methods or tools that we're providing to increase the quality of the conversation so it increases the quality of relationship. I got that. Very nice. Notice how Colleen laid it out. The outcome is here. We start with the outcome. Now we're doing a backwards design. We start with the outcome, the O. Now I'm going to ask her, what do we need to understand in order to do the O. And then we'll eventually come up to the context or why are we talking about this? Which she already said, it's about improving the quality of overall relationships and results. But at the moment, let's kind of bring us right back to. So, Colleen, what would this each. What would the team members have to understand in order that they could actually put that into their daily practice? Put that change in behavior into their daily practice?

Sure. I think that a couple things they would have to know are just some of the learning protocols, communication protocols and processes that we've been modeling that they can, as Lena mentioned, put them in their tool belt so they can develop some trust and they can develop safe space. Because one of the other things that we talked about is really to create this. This trust is critical when we're creating a space for collaboration because everybody kind of doesn't want to necessarily say something that might be opposed to what somebody else said. Because I want people to feel included and I want people to feel, you know, that I care about. And yet if I truly care about someone, I can create and we are focused on creating a safe space. I can say, you know what, Lena, I appreciate your perspective and would you be open to an alternative one? Just being able to say something like that is critical as well. So what resonated with me just in our little piece is, yes, what are these protocols and Processes are important, and yet when you do use them, another outcome that surfaces is you get everyone's perspective. They're unvarnished, candid conversation, because that's what we need, especially when we're trying to solve difficult issues and challenges. Yeah.

So what I'm hearing you say is that one of the things people need to understand is what safe space look looks like and the value of safe space in a conversation. Am I getting you right, Colleen?

Absolutely.

Did you hear something more or different? Lana?

I heard the same thing, but the. And I want. I would like to add that there's the effect of words. Right. So the way Colleen said it, she said, would you be open to an alternative one? Instead of saying, I heard you and I appreciate you, but I don't agree with you. Now, it's this opposition almost. I don't want to say declaration of war, but, you know, it's very, very negative. But inviting them to hear an alternative option is such an elegant way of doing things.

I agree. And that the sensibility that you just brought forward in this work, elegance is everything. And it's actually. It's more simple and it's shorter, but it requires a mindset that you have saying, I don't think I'm smarter, better than you. I just want to understand what your perspective is. And if you're okay with it, I might want to offer a different one. But the idea of invitation is exceedingly powerful. So, audience, look what the ladies have already crafted for you. Beautiful outcome and a beautiful understanding, the beautiful purpose statement. So let me try and rephrase, or say it in what I heard, in the way in which I heard you say it, Colleen. So we would like to develop a common understanding among the team members about what safe space looks like, why it matters, and how to apply it in our conversations. Colleen, how did I do with that? What would you add?

No, I. I think that that was good. Safe space is a way. Right. That's one of the things that's critically important so we can get to that space of collaboration. Absolutely.

Well, that's what you. You just added. Yeah. Space of collaboration. If it's not safe enough and the CO is talking in a triad in the military, and the CEO has kind of an edgy way about conversation, that CEO won't get any more data. They'll just get their opinions laid on the table without much change. So, Lena, anything to add on what we've done so far?

You know, I like the fact that the CO is inviting the board members to speak now. The one thing that I feel is important and that is, you know, open communication, but with the understanding that at the end of the day, it's that CEO's decision to make. So, yes, please give your opinions. And what I would like to see is when the CEO makes his or her decision, give the reasoning. Why? Because if I'm going to invest all my time to give you what I'm thinking in the safe space where I trust that what I say is valued, and if the CEO doesn't take my opinion, then why was that? Because at the end of the day, we all learn from each other. And wouldn't it be wonderful if we, you know, learn from the CEO and. And maybe there's something down the line that he or she can see and. And I don't.

I love it. Absolutely. What I'm hearing you say, and you're talking about, especially about the confusion that happens in a meeting where somebody says, this is a decision brief. No, no, it's not. It's information for the boss to make a decision. And then the second thing you said, which I love, is that once the decision is made, somebody needs to write a response saying, here is the decision I attended to and here's how I came to that decision. I also enjoy it when people start the context in those conversations when they say, I really want to hear from all of you. I want to hear unvarnished thinking. Please remember I'm listening to the Pentagon, listening to Congress, I'm listening to secnav, I'm listening to cno. So there's a lot of other pieces of information that may come into my radar screen that will allow me to make the best possible decision. So if it doesn't always agree with you or what the position that you think I should take, please understand this is not the only source of data for me. I think that's really an important edge when we do this. Well, I feel like we've done well. We're almost out of time. So how do we do a quick checkout? That sound good or is there anything else to add?

I don't think so.

So make believe you're talking to the audience and you want to tell the audience one thing you think they should remember from this podcast. What would that one thing be?

There's so much, I would say keeping an open mind, because sometimes we can go into a meeting with our mind made up already. We have our, again, our. Whether it's assumptions or with our own values. And so it's nice to be able to respectfully listen to what Other people have to say and be open to that alternative, you know, option.

That's beautiful. Are you out?

I'm out.

Okay. That you just opened the door to. I just did this with a. With a board recently. And on the board is an attorney. No longer. He's still an attorney, but he's retired practice amr. So he shows up at the meeting with a series of statements which felt like he was litigating a decision, and they're on. And a lawyer that's litigating a decision from the jury really is uninterested in somebody telling them, no, I got another idea. They just want to go through that. And he laughed at the end when I pointed that out to him, and he said, you're right. What that does tends to shut down some conversation. So very good place to see that playing itself out. And I believe overall, everybody loved one another was kind of safe space. But his. He had an assumption. He had a conclusion already, and he's going to argue for that conclusion. Beautiful. Colleen, what would you say to the audience?

Yeah, I mean, I really like this. This sense of creating a safe space so you can get people's voices in the room. And my invitation to our audience is to think about diversity in a slightly different way. You know, a lot of times people think about it from the HR perspective. And I'm suggesting you think about it from diversity. Lives in our thinking. You know, I. My sister and. And we think very, very differently. And it's just as a leader, what a wonderful opportunity to get people's thinking on the table. And yet many times people won't offer their thinking. And now. And this has happened in many of my consults, so now people are creating forces of action based upon limited thinking and not the best thinking of their team. So now we're off and running down a path that might not necessarily be the best path to go. So how can we recognize diversity? Innovation, creativity, it lives in our thinking. So as a leader and as a meeting participant, I want to intentionally show up, as Lena said, in a space of learning. So I will be open to listening and considering alternative perspectives as I continue to move forward. And that's where the magic happens. That's where the magic happens. And you really get these rich, rich, innovative ideas and ways to address challenges. So just an opportunity to really think about yourself and then how you set up these conversations in your meetings. And I'm out.

I don't even think I have anything to add. The ladies did a beautiful job laying on the table the big pieces that are there. This is almost like paying attention to yourself. So you can self regulate if there's somebody in the meeting that has impressed me in the past or that I find attractive, male or female, in the way they think or even in the way they look. Sometimes people show up and they just look great and they're like the greatest looking person at the meeting all the time. There's some subconscious stuff going on. That person must know what they're doing. So if they say something and or they disagree with something you say, you almost accept it as so, rather than just looking at the words that were produced. So be careful about that subtle stuff that happens in a meeting with somebody you admire or don't admire. You know, my biggest problem as a leader was to make sure that someone I wouldn't go out to dinner with could possibly give me a great idea in a meeting. And I had some of this, you know, all stuff happening unconsciously with me that was dismissing that person's thoughts and words. So there's lots of good things to learn here in this one. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening with us today. This is the holiday season. I hope the holiday season is treating you well and you're treating yourself well. Watch out for this time. Make sure you're taking a moment to breathe and relax and celebrate all the great work you're doing on behalf of other people. Thank you for listening to JLC Media. If you'd like to chat with one of us, go online to gojlc.com we're honored to have a discovery conversation with you at any time. Happy Holidays. Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast. The Jorgensen Learning center offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills. To find out more about programs and upcoming webinars, check out our events page@gojlc.com.