Inside JLC: What Are You Talking About?

Foreign. Thank you for coming and being part of the JLC media program. This is one of a series of podcasts. I'll talk a little bit in a moment about what the content will be and I think you'll enjoy it because if you are going to have a conversation with somebody or a meeting with somebody, this will kind of give you a primer about how to get yourself set up for that. But before I do that, let me introduce or have them introduce themselves. So, Colleen, why don't you start? Who are you and what are you doing here?

Sure, sure. For those of you listening, you probably have heard my voice many times. My name is Colleen Sullivan. I'm a leadership communication consultant with jlc. And I've had the absolute pleasure of working with leaders as they design, develop, and facilitate meetings for the last many years. And I am so excited to have my colleague and good friend here with me as well, retired Captain Lena Hartzell. And I'm going to have her introduce herself briefly as well. Over to you, Lena.

Hi, Colleen. Thank you so much for the nice introduction. It's absolutely an honor for me to be here with you. My name is Lena Hartzell and I was in the Navy for 30 years, worked with amazing people, leaders and many mentors. And I was very grateful for Colleen to have facilitated many of our off sites and just board meetings and conversations that have led to many improvements, especially with communication and understanding what the real issues are and what our mission is. Thank you for having me.

Thank you both. And Lena, I never get tired of saying thank you for your service.

Thank you.

My job is to be the best American I can be in honor of the people that take care of me out there. I think, Leonard, I don't know if you know this. Colleen does. A few years ago, I tried to get in the Navy and my heart does something they don't like. It throws something called PVCs. I'm not even sure what that is, but they don't like it. And I still do it. And I just was at a. A session this morning where I was wired up and I was doing workouts still there, but I'm still here. So I find it very sad I didn't get to do that. I really wanted to be a communications guy for the Navy. I just finished my. My bachelor's and I was an amateur radio operator, so I was sure they were going to put me into something that had to do with code. Anyway, I missed that opportunity. But again, I can't tell you enough how grateful I am for you and for the service you and your colleagues have brought to us. With that said, this meeting, this conversation, this podcast, has been not very long, but it's an opportunity for you to play with us. So what we're going to do today, the reason why we're going to do it is very often we have meetings coming or a conversation coming. Sometimes one I want to have and sometimes maybe one I don't want to have, but we have an event happening where there's an interaction between myself, yourselves, and someone else. So we're going to talk about what are the a way in which and other ways to create a very nice presence at the beginning of the conversation. When this is done, each of you will know what are those steps that would enable you to prepare for a conversation? And again, it could be a congratulatory conversation, or it could be one that. Not so much. We need to talk about some things going on, either in my performance, your performance, or the team's performance, but that'll be up to you. Colleen, what are you hearing me say we're working on today?

Sure.

What I'm hearing you say is today we're going to chat about what are some very. What are some ways you can intentionally design and kind of prepare and set the stage for a conversation? It could be one that you're looking forward to having, or it could be one around performance, but either way, if it's one that you're not and performance could be one because it's a lack of performance issue. So whether it's a difficult conversation or one you're looking forward to, what are some things you can do to set the stage and to prepare for that conversation? So. So it unfolds to the best that it possibly can.

Nice. We will. Thank you, Colleen. We will create a common understanding among the three of us, and I hope all of you that are listening on what are a couple of steps that we can take moving forward. Lena, what did you hear? Anything more or different now?

I heard exactly what Colleen said. How can we make a conversation successful whether it's positive? Positive always is easy. But how can we have those difficult ones and get the message across in a professional way?

Thank you. That's correct. And keeping ourselves professionally involved. There was something that happened to me as a young leader long time ago where they said I had to maintain professional distance. Okay, that's fine. At the same time, I still needed to have a relationship with that human being. So somehow I needed to learn. And over time, through lots of knee scraping and elbow burning, I learned how to have relationships and really care for somebody and sometimes have a very challenging, hard conversation with that person I cared for. Irrespective of which kind of conversation it is, there are some steps to take and I'm going to move into that space right now. So both of you think about a conversation that you've seen recently and because you can use that as context. But when we create the opening of a meeting, there are three things that matter. Thing one, what is the context? Or why are we talking about this? Context? C, why are we talking about this? The second is what do we need to commonly understand? This is the purpose of the conversation. What will we commonly understand? And the outcome, very simply, is what will each of us know and be able to do at the end of this conversation? Meeting agenda item doesn't matter. What will each of us know and be able to do at the end? So, Colleen, add on to that. What did you hear me say? The focus of this conversation is sure.

We are going to really highlight a key way of really beginning a meeting. And I would also add beginning any agenda item by focusing the meeting or focusing the agenda item with the context, purpose and outcome statement to ensure everyone. We are aligning everyone on the purpose and desired outcome.

For my military friends that are listening, based on what Colleen just said, we've all seen bluffs, bottom line up front. That really matters, to have a bottom line up front. And before you create the bluff, it's important to know why are we here? Why are we talking about this bluff? What do I need to understand in this bluff and what is expected of me personally and visually after this bluff is given to me? If we don't get that going in the beginning, people will listen to the bluff and be very polite. But very often we don't shift into that other place. What are you thinking right now, Lena.

That is so key? Because there is a lot of times people are just listening to what the boss has to say and then they walk out not knowing, you know, what exactly was the purpose or what was expected of them. So it's always good to be clear about expectations from both parties and be direct, but again, in a professional way.

Very professional way. Yeah. There's a piece here in the psychological work that we've done. So Colleen and I have studied deeply pieces of sociology, pieces of psych, pieces of how do we actually get people with us on the same journey so that it's okay to take a side road on occasion but come back to the main road if we can. And this is one of those ways so let me start with how do we do it? We do it by planning backwards. So, Colleen, I'm sure you've thought of a meeting or a conversation you need to have soon. So I'm going to pick on you and I'm going to let Lena play on those pieces. So let's assume you got a conversation coming up and kind of give us just a little bit of who are you going to speak with and. Or is it a meeting? Is it a person? Tell me what you're thinking of right now, Colleen. What kind of conversation are you going to have?

Sure. Well, next week I'm going to be supporting one of our clients in a conversation where they are focused on developing professional relationships, new team. And so really the focus is twofold, is developing those professional relationships so they can focus on the strategic priorities for success for the year.

That's outstanding. So notice the connection between this meeting agenda item and success desired future state. So, Colleen, I'll continue to play with you and we'll start right at the beginning. Let's pick one of those two or both. What would you like each person to know and be able to do at the end of the conversation?

Sure. I'll pick the first one. Because I think sometimes people skip over the importance of developing quality professional relationships because they're like, oh, well, I see Lena in the hall all the time. You know, she's my friend. We've got a good relationship. I sit next to her, you know, at our son's baseball games. And I think that what happens is that we get a little bit. A little bit relaxed versus recognizing. Every meeting is an opportunity to develop the quality professional relationships amongst the team. And if I don't think about it very deliberately and intentionally engage in these types of conversations, it impacts our ability to collaborate. And that is where the money, Right. The rubber hits the road. So with this particular group, when I'm facilitating this piece, what I want to say is, right as we begin, the climate is exceedingly. The business climate, the economic climate is exceedingly turbulent and requires agility and our ability to collaborate effectively because everyone has some work, great thinking, and we need the thinking of everyone to be exceedingly effective and successful this year. So what I'd like to do is develop a common understanding of some ways you can consistently develop the professional relationships with amongst the team so we can create a safe space for trust in truly collaborative conversations. So at the end of this, each of us will walk away with at least one or two things they can begin to do immediately to enhance the Quality of the relationships within this group, Lena.

But how does that land on you?

Well, Colleen said it, it's trust. I mean, first of all, we are a bit relaxed about relationships. We think, oh, I've seen her. You know, we wave high, there's a relationship. But that does not define a relationship. And so for us to have a relationship, we have to have trust. We have to know each other. And that's why I think having a, you know, in the Navy, we used to have more of social events and that's a great opportunity for us to get to know each other. It's not just, just about work, but building that relationship and that trust and then being flexible and not rigid and not assuming things. Right. Because it's easy for us to assume. Oh, yeah, that's. That's easy stuff or that's not important. I'm not going to pay attention or give it the attention it deserves.

How many times, Lena, have you heard, I don't need those soft skills, Lena?

That's right. That's right. But if it's about people, you have to give it time, attention, trust and no judgment. Right. Because how many times have we been at a board meeting where people will not say anything because they're afraid they're going to be judged or somebody's going to say, well, that was a stupid idea. I don't know why they brought that up.

Even the non verbal, can me up, right? Rolling eyes, looking away, like doing things like that. So we understand that. But notice how beautifully this unfolded. As Colleen said, I. The outcome, each person will know and be able to use one or two of these capabilities to improve the quality of their next conversation. That was really good. And she also gave you the purpose statement, which is there are some things for us to do where there, there are some things to understand in the development of a relationship. And I'll go into the specifics of that in a moment. And then she actually, Lena gave the. Why? Why does this matter? It matters because we have casual relationships. We have relationships. They're wonderful. They don't always translate very well into the boardroom or into a meeting or into a conversation. So it's like there's a disciplined set of behaviors that can increase the quality of those professional relationships. So Colleen did the whole thing. So the context, why we want to make sure that when we are interacting with one another in these meetings or these one on one conversations that we recognize it's a leadership conversation. It's not just, hey, how was the ball game? It's actually there's a reason for this that really matters to us. Moving forward, then there are one or two things. Purpose. That we will help develop a common understanding that people can practice and use so that. And notice the language and the outcome. Each of us will know and be able to use these one or two capabilities when this meeting is over. This is so easy that cpo. So we plan it backwards. We plan it outcome, purpose, context. And when we start the meeting, we go context, purpose, outcome. But the backwards planning is so important because we've seen people show up in a meeting with like 100 outcomes. Like, we can't do that. We need to find the few that really matter to us, the high priority outcomes. But the practice of cpo, designing it backwards and presenting it forwards, that is everything. Colleen, I think we've done it. Tell me what you're thinking right now.

Yeah, I think when you were saying that, what resonated with me and what I was thinking was, you know, it can be so elegant. And it goes back to, why do I need to do this? It's going to take me too much time. Right? Do I have to do that for every agenda item? And our answer is, well, you don't, but when you don't. And here is a great example that happened to me in last month where I was at a meeting, this one I was observing, and there was a board of maybe 20 people, and they were listening to a presentation. Halfway through, somebody raised their hand and said, excuse me, why are we listening to this? They had no idea what. What was the purpose? What did they want him to know? And what was the action? And the. The. Honestly, the thing that I was most surprised by was they were expecting them to vote at the end of this particular agenda item, but nobody had said that. So the other big piece that I want to lay on the table is this creates that engagement. Right. And creative tension. I'm going to lean in. If at the beginning of this agenda item, somebody tells me I need to vote on this particular topic, I'm listening differently. If Lena is facilitating a meeting and she tells me that I need to be able to take this new, operate the standard operational procedure and teach it to my team by Tuesday, boy, I'm taking notes. But if we miss that piece that is so incredibly critical, and we just present this new standard operating procedure, I'm listening, going, okay, well, that's really nice. I'm not engaged, and I'm not leaning forward because I don't have that understanding that I need to reteach this to my team by a certain date. So the more we can really focus that, boy, does it help people quickly align expectations and an understanding of what I'm expected to do. And from our perspective, over years and years working with people, that's where accountability lives. If you could really nail your CPO at the beginning of the meeting and every agenda item, now, I understand what you want me to do. And then you can loop it back into the next meeting as well.

Wonderful. Lena, please add, yes.

You know, I think it is so important for us to know what is expected of us. Right? And so, and for. Just to take it another level, what is my job here? What's my function here? What is expected of me, per my job description, for example? And so being very, you know, having that CPO and having that outcome really communicated early on gets me ready to think about, okay, what am I listening to? What am I supposed to be doing and how? And that makes that person a better person and. And an asset to the meeting.

The asset part is beautiful. It's in some of our other podcasts. I always say people have a. A radio station playing in their head. Wiifm what's in it for me? And if I don't know what my deal is, I'll get lost and I'll just sit there. I'll nod and smile or knowing myself, I wouldn't do that. I'd probably growl and grumble and then leave as fast as I could. Or I would have somebody call me and say, ray, there's a call for you. So, and the meeting. This is really. You guys have nailed this beautifully. Those of you that are listening, if this is the first time you're thinking about how to do this, notice how Lena and Colleen lay that out. The meeting or the agenda item starts with, why are we doing this? What are we going to understand together? Commonly understand together. What will each of us do at the end? When we plan it, we do it backwards. What do we want each person in this room or each of us in the conversation to know and be able to do in order to do that? What do I need to understand once I understand that? Let's say, okay, why are we talking about this at all? Context is so, so critical. Well, I think. Thank you, ladies. Let's do a quick little checkout. Checkout is what resonated most with you during this conversation. Either one of you can start.

I'll go ahead and start. When we talk about context, I feel like some folks will just tell their people to do something without that big picture. Right? The context. Why am I asking you to do something right. A lot of times they'll just say, I need you to do X, Y and Z. Well, if you give them a little more, have that CPO and explain that context piece, then they will be, in my opinion, more engaged and more willing to do it. And they may even do it in a better way, faster, better, more efficiently than what you had originally set out to do.

That is very powerful, Lana, and I'm sure you found it. Lana. Colleen and I have found that when people actually understand how they fit into the larger system and that what it is that they're doing today is all about achieving the results of the mission. Results, team results. They're more engaged. They really, really are. Colleen, what resonated most for you?

I think it was a comment, Lena, that you actually made around, you know, your team can be an asset. Well, they are an asset. And as a leader, how can I intentionally use specific learning protocols to ensure that they are contributing to their best ability and that I am creating a space for them to bring their best self into the team and contributions every time. And so I think that's a great way to look at meetings because I think sometimes, at least with the people that I've coached over many, many years, sometimes they have the weekly meeting and they just go in and just start the meeting. They miss the opportunity to recognize this. How can I continue to develop the capability of my team so they recognize how much they can learn from each other? We always say, the wisdom's in the room. Everyone is an asset. As a leader, how do I ensure I'm bringing that forward and drawing them out of my people? That in and of itself, thinking about meetings in that way will really enhance their contributions and to your point, Lyna, their individual ability to be more successful, but even the team's ability to get results as well.

Thank you both elegant comments, beautiful statements. Those of you that are listening, if you'd like to get a hold of us, you can get on the website, it's www.gojlc.com and you can sign up for an absolutely free discovery conversation to see whether or not what we told you about today has of any has some value for you or not. But we are very grateful for you to listen to this podcast and give up one of your most important assets, your time. Thank you so much. I hope you're well and this is happening a little bit before Christmas vacation and other holidays. So I hope you have a wonderful holiday season. Thank you very much.

Sincerest thanks for listening to this episode. Of the Everyday Leadership Conversations podcast, the Jorgensen Learning center on offers a variety of programs for individuals and organizations to enhance their communication and leadership skills. To find out more about programs and upcoming webinars, check out our events page@gojlc.com.