Brian Biro explains how fear stems from ego-driven thinking that projects failure. He outlines three controllables: shaping your future through visualization, energizing yourself with affirmations, and building relationships through presence. Olympic skater Alysa Liu uses this framework to focus on what she can control rather than outcomes.
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Good morning, everyone. It's John Murphy here with Brian Byro, America's Breakthrough Speaker. Wow, we're going to have a great conversation about breakthrough today. And our theme this month is the ego thought system. And essentially, it's a mindset that wants us to think we're it. So, rather than controlling the mind, the mind is controlling us. So, whenever we feel feelings like grief, shame, anger, It's the ego that's triggering that, and it's the ego that triggers fear. So anytime we are afraid of anything, it's not us. It's the ego convincing us that we're it. So we're projecting something into the future that's going to go wrong. The ego has a negative tendency, and when we see something going wrong in the future, it triggers fear. And it triggers hormones in our body, stress hormones. that then tell us that it is fearful, it is afraid, but it's all an illusion. And so, in this episode and in all of the Fearless episodes, we dig real deep into fear and where it's coming from and how we can eliminate it. Now, a lot of people are afraid to get up on stage and give a public talk. Brian's given like 2,000. He's written 16 books. I've got 3 of his books right here. All right, check this out. Lessons from the Legends. And he probably talked a little bit about one of his mentors, John Wooden, the great coach John Wooden. Here's There Are No Overachievers. What's that all about? And of course, then here's one, Beyond Success. You know, I've got the course with Fuel, Beyond Doubt. Here we've got one, Beyond Success. Brian's got courses on Fuel. So, if you've not checked those out, I highly recommend it. I have 2 courses of my own, Beyond Doubt and Creative Problem Solving. Invite you to check those out. And all of these episodes are recorded on YouTube. And so, if you miss an episode or you want to go back and watch an episode or share an episode with a friend or family or team member, please do. Get the word out because our intention, Brian's and mine and the entire Fuel faculty, is to do everything we can to offer help and assistance. If you've seen this show before, you'll know I grew up pretty much a self-help junkie back in the— my company is turning 38 years old this year. So, I've been at this for a while. And I never would have gotten anywhere if I was afraid. To leave your corporate job at 28 years old to try something like starting a consulting firm, with basically not a whole lot of experience, a wife who's pregnant with your second child, very little money in savings. That's not exactly something most people would consider doing. But I felt like, in my case, it was a calling. It was why I'm on the planet. It was to get out and help as many people, millions potentially, live a happier, more joyful life. So, today, we're going to delve into From Ego to WeGo. I love that. I've written the term meopic and weopic in some of my books. So, what's in it for me, ego, to weopic, what's in it for we, where we really align and pull together as a team and get amazing things done. So, Brian's an expert in this stuff. So, welcome, Brian. Let me start with a question. You've been immensely successful in your career. Thousands and thousands, if not millions, of people follow you and have learned from you with your breakthrough strategies and your 3 controllables that we're going to talk about controlling here. But what got you here? What was your motivation going way back to do exactly what you're doing?
Well, first of all, thanks, John. I was just enjoying your story a little bit because ours are so similar. It's that leap you take when you hope you're going off the 10-meter platform towards the water. And not towards the cement on the other side. But when you know that it's the right leap, that's the one to take. And so my whole, my whole thing is I love people. I believe in us. When I say in the title of the book, there are no overachievers, that's actually a quote from Coach Wooden that he used all the time. Those who don't know, John Wooden was the greatest men's college basketball coach of all time. Many people consider him the greatest coach of any sport of all time, but he understood we coach people. more than basketball, more than business, more— we really coach people. Every business is a people business. So, from as long as I can remember, I've had this belief that there's something good in people. And my joy is to try to find a way to bring it back, bring it out both individually and collectively. So, like you, I went to college, went to Stanford. I know you went to Notre Dame. I went to Stanford.
Yes.
And my buddies thought I was crazy when I was leaving because they're going to medical school, school and business school and, you know, all these engineering school. And I started a swim school. I became a swimming coach. And because I loved it, it's what I did to put myself through college. And what I discovered was that there's something called the Pygmalion effect that has a great deal to do with moving from ego to wego. And the Pygmalion effect says essentially this, that our thoughts and our beliefs and our expectations are magnetic. Then we look at people, we don't just see them, we actually move them, like pull them like a magnet in the direction of the way we see them. So, a great question to ask that I asked all the years of coaching is, what am I focusing on? Because what I focus on is what I create because of that Pygmalion effect. And so, what I really realized was that I coached people. It was really about their emotions. It was really about breaking through the fears the doubts, the habits that held them from who they really were. And I loved it. That was my first career, so it kind of set me on the path, but I had no life. So another thing that I know you're passionate about is— See, all I knew myself was my work. And when you only know yourself as in work, outside of work, you're frightened about discovering whatever you haven't discovered yet. And so I'm probably the only guy you know, John, who jumped from who went into graduate school to get a life instead of a job. And I really did. That's when I met my wife. It was that same leap that you took. It's when I got physical, so much better physical shape. And most of all, I began to understand who I was. Had a neat corporate career, but I was in a field I didn't give a hoot about. I cared about the people. And we started building a team in our organization that had been completely siloed. We went from silos to synergy. And at the peak of that, I took the same leap you did. We were doing great. We had had incredible turnaround. I had started doing team building programs, presentations in my own company all over North America. I said to my wife, we're doing great. Let's quit. I gotta go do this. And that was 36 years ago.
Yeah.
And have been speaking about breakthrough, breakthrough leadership, breaking through from fear to freedom, from failure to faith, and from ego to wego. And that's been the path. But the consistent centerpiece is this belief that we have in us more than we think.
Yeah. Well, I could totally relate with that, Brian. And I run Kaizen events, change events all over the world. And it's not unusual on Monday for people, master black belts and change agents coming up to me going, I think we have a problem, John. And I say, well, what's that? And he says, well, we've got a lot of people on the team that just don't think it's possible. to do what you're telling us we're going to do in a week. Okay. And I'm even talking, Brian, about nuclear engineers and Kaizen events in Washington, D.C., at the Department of Defense. You know, these are not people who don't have some intelligence, right? But then I'll say, well, good. And they're like, what do you mean good? Like, I said, because on Thursday and Friday when they're high-fiving each other because of the changes we made, we're going to see a completely different mindset. And the reason I share that is because to me, true empowerment is helping people get out of their own way. So, when you talk about focusing on people who no doubt have doubt in most cases, I'm not really sure I can do this.
Exactly.
That's a barrier to success right there. So, I think high-performing leaders are, like you say, focusing on people. as well as the mission, whatever the mission is, and helping them get beyond that doubt, beyond that fear. And it's truly amazing. You use the term synergy where they've just really pulled together. And I like to call that the genius of the team. I've been in sessions where I'm like, is anybody in here a genius? And they're like, no, we thought you were. No. But what we're going to do is we're going to tap the genius of the team, and I'm going to show you how to do that. So, now, you make the comment that we're all leaders. Everybody's a leader. Comment on that, Brian.
Well, that's a starting place. You know, a lot of times when speakers or consultants or coaches talk about leadership, immediately people kind of close that off to the C-suite or close that off to, you know, a certain position or above. And I want to dispel that right away because you're the CEO of your own life no matter what your quote-unquote title or job is. That leadership, if you break it down to its very base, base level, leadership is nothing more than making decisions. Every decision you make is an act of personal leadership. So, how you show up every day, that is a huge part of leadership. You are a teacher of a way to live your life. How do you deal with adversity, with challenge, with change? Do you embrace it? Do you run from it? Do you fear it? Do you, do you look enthusiastically That's another facet of leadership. Most of all, what kind of impact do you have on the people around you? Do you just lift them up by who you are? Do you neutralize them? Are you an energy vampire? Do you suck the energy out of people? So, we're all leaders already and that's the starting place for what I call breakthrough leadership, which to me is so much in concert with what you teach. I mean, we, as I say, we could talk for 16 hours.
Definitely.
Did you tell them this show is 16 hours this time? No, just kidding. It's really about how do you deal with fear? And perhaps the greatest fear of all is uncertainty, is doubt. And how do you overcome that? Well, it starts with controlling your controllables. And so, Breakthrough Leadership is about really controlling our controllables because think about it, you know this, John, when you're focusing on the things you do control, how do you feel? You feel enthusiastic, you feel optimistic, you feel, you feel like you're generating momentum, you feel like you can. It's when we focus on those things we don't control that we, that we fall, that we start to feel disillusioned. We feel like we don't know where to go, and therefore we become in a state of overwhelm or just deep fear. So to me, it's all about shifting to control your controllables. There's a beautiful example that has just happened yesterday. And it was at the Winter Olympics. And the young woman, I'm gonna— can't remember her name, is Alysa Liu, I think her name is, won the gold medal for the United States in ice skating. And it was fascinating, John, because what she talked about— first of all, she was complete joy on the ice. No nerves, no fear. And that is very tough in that world of that sport, which is so precise and so Difficult. But she comes from a place 100% of controlling her controllables. Did she want to win? Did she love winning a gold medal? Absolutely. Is that what she shot for? Absolutely not. She was there to put her artistry out the very best she could for the pure joy of doing it. And to her, whether she won a gold medal or didn't medal at all, didn't matter. And as a result, she performed flawlessly. She performed with pure joy. And she embraced the other contestants, the other participants with pure joy for them. It was beautiful. It was beautiful sportsmanship, but it was all about here was an athlete who actually focused. Did she want to win? Sure. But what she wanted more was to focus on doing the best of which she was capable. It was on the inside. It was not even about ego. It was about allowing me to be who I love to be. And that was beautiful.
Yeah. Well, and you use the term, we're all leaders and we lead with our own choices, with our own decisions. And I'd just add, I heard this metaphor some time ago that we're actually king and queen of our own kingdom or queendom. And instead of the kingdom controlling us, the ego mind telling us we should be afraid, telling us we should feel guilty, telling us that we should be angry, give up, whatever. No, we're telling the ego, I hear you. I'm listening. There are some things that are important to listen to with fear. Tell me what I should be afraid of. I'll come up with some countermeasures. Now you can go sit in the corner while I do, while I ice skate or whatever it is I'm doing, get up on stage and give a speech. People confuse that all the time because they don't realize they can control— talk about controllables— control the mind And in this case, you've got somebody who's basically saying, the only thing I can truly control in life is my own mind. And so, what am I going to choose to do? I'm going to get out there on the ice and dance, you know, do my very best, do what I'm here meant to do, and let go of any doubt or worry. Because it's thinking, I think about this like with the game of golf, Brian, if you step up to the ball and you're worried, about duffing, you're going to duff more than likely. Absolutely.
You want to mess somebody up on the golf course, ask them, do you breathe in or out on the backswing? And they're going to get it. Behind me on my wall, hopefully you can see, is my mentor, my friend, the man who wrote the foreword to one of the books you showed there, John Wooden. And again, John Wooden, the greatest men's college basketball coach of all time, 10 national championships, perspective, No other coach in history won more than 5 in a 42-year career. Coach K won 5 in 42 years. Coach Wooden won 10 in 12 years. But he'll be the first to say, I didn't win any in the first 27 years that I coached. He said, it's what you learn after you know everything that makes the difference. But here's the most fascinating, clear example of what happens when you live your life focusing on controlling your controllables. When you're easy to impress but hard to offend. John Wooden, the greatest of them all, never said the words winning or losing to his players or his coaches. He never said the words. Did he want to win? Absolutely. But what he wanted was for them to focus on a definition of success that is about what you put in, which— that is about your controllables. He said, success is peace of mind. It comes only from knowing that you've given the best of which you're capable. In other words, if you have to look at the scoreboard, and the biggest challenge to really living without fear is if you have to compare yourself to others to know who you are, you're going to live in fear. Yeah, and that's it. You'll need to be good enough, or you'll overblow yourself and not let anyone who sees the world differently get around you. So, you know, John Wooden would have that every single day. He focused on that definition of success, you know, and what happens is you lose the fear of failure because When you come from that place, you don't look at things as failure. You look at it as, what happened? What can I learn? How can I use this to be of greater service? How can I use this to rise beyond what I did today? The only person you compare yourself is to yourself.
Absolutely. That's a classic example of knowing when the ego is controlling your mind, your true mind, is when you find yourself comparing. You're comparing yourself to other people. But here's the other thing. We grow up in a society where that's the norm. You know, you're comparing yourself constantly to neighbors, to fellow students, to fellow teachers, to competitors in business, competitors in sports. We're all about comparing growing up. So, we lose identity with our true, what I like to call capital S Self, our true bigger self, higher self. And we end up going through life with that ego. So, the first control that you speak about a lot is shaping the future. Give us a quick summary of what you mean by that, Brian.
Shaping the future is about vision. And I love the focus on it. Most of us don't realize that we have a choice about where we focus our vision. And so, to shape your future, there's really 2 foundational keys to it. Number one, what you focus on is what you create. It's not just what you get, it's what you create. So I often have people in my events actually do a physical experience where I have them turn as far as they can and mark the spot. And then I guide them on a visualization to go further. And they all, the jaws drop because they always go further. So what you focus on is what you create. So here's the question, we've brought it up before. What are you focusing on? How many of us focus more on worrying about what will go wrong than creating what we want to go right? How many of us focus more often on the people that upset us, the situations we don't want to— how many are focusing on— since I have people break boards in the event, how many are focusing on the boards than on the breakthrough? Whichever way you focus, what you focus on is what you create. So as you teach, ask yourself often, what am I focusing on? And if it's what you don't want, shift your focus to what you do want. Now, you don't pretend there's no obstacle. There's obstacles. There's things that we do that what we think is right and it doesn't work out. But then shift, as soon as you see what the obstacle is, move beyond it. So the first key to shaping your future is to recognize that what you focus on is what you create and focus more often on what you do want to create. I can look at people and almost know exactly which ones are shaping that future because they're their facial expressions are more joyful. All right, they have more energy. It comes with it. The second key is to not use your memory to see. So in all of my events, I've asked people, what color is a yield sign? And every single audience says yellow. Yield signs have been red and white for 55 years.
Right.
So the question is, why don't we see what's right in front of us? And the answer is Very seldom do most people use their vision to see. What do we use instead? Our memory and our conditioning. And whenever you use your memory to see, you do not see what is, you see what was.
Yeah.
And the second you lock onto what was, guess what you block out? What is and what could be. Now, that's well and good for yield signs, and I hope everybody watching is, you know, join me because I'm the happiest driver I know, because every time I see a yield sign, I start cracking up. thinking, what else have I been missing lately? But where does it matter to no longer depend upon your memory and conditioning to be your vision? One word, the word that your show is about, the word that Fuel is about, the word that we're all about— people. People. Change the way you look at people, the people you look at change.
Mm-hmm.
Change the way you see yourself, the self you see will change. So to shape the future you want to create, Number one, start focusing more on what you want. Ask, what am I focusing on? And make sure it's where you want to go. And 2, step back and say, am I using my vision to see or my memory? And then open your eyes to the possibilities. So many events I've been in, John, I've asked people this question. Is anybody in this room married to somebody who, when you first met them, you couldn't stand them? And always people raise their hands. Well, they stopped using their memory to see that person. Somewhere along the line, they started to look for something different. And they go together because once you look for something different, what you focus on is what you create.
Yeah, no question about it. And, you know, one of the exercises I have people do, and I've done it within this show, is draw a very clear, specific picture of yourself 5 years out. So, it ties into shaping your future. And, by the way, I'd like to know as best you can describe. What do you look like? So there's a physical component. What do you feel like? Are you joyful? Are you happy? Are you grateful? Are you just absolutely loving life? What are you doing, you know, professionally or recreationally? What, like, what are you doing? Where are you living? Okay. And What's your financial situation looking like? So, very specific. I call them specs, if you will, for true success because a lot of people think, well, if I just have a whole bunch of money, I'll be happy. I live on Palm Beach. There's billionaires up and down the street all over the place around here, not all in the best shape, so to speak, not all real happy. But so, be real specific. And what I discuss— so, we're shaping the future. But what often happens is people, they draw this picture and I encourage them them to stretch. And then I say, is there any doubt about it in your mind? Like, is there any like, well, I really couldn't do that. I'm not smart enough. I don't know how. And this is a key point that I teach, Brian, is if you're very clear on the what and the why it's important, and the what is about giving, not getting, there's your ego to wego. So, if I'm clear on what it is I'm here to give, And why it's important, the how shows up.
Absolutely.
You don't have to know how.
We were so copacetic. One of the breakthrough beliefs that I teach is when your why is compelling enough, you'll figure out how. You know, most people always think when they're not getting the results they want, immediately think it's about strategy and tactics. Now, strategy and tactics can be phenomenal, but your compelling why, your clarity about where you want to go, the what, They eat those strategy and tactics for breakfast. You will find things that you didn't know you had inside of you. So, it's so, so important to understand that shaping your future is controllable based upon what you focus on, both in yourself and others. I ask people, when you look in the mirror, you see your pimples or your possibilities? All right? And I think the other key thing that you can use just real practically, I love that exercise you create, is ask yourself this question. When I'm passing on, what are 3 words that I am determined that I very much want people who knew me to describe me as? So, I have 3 words.
All right?
My 3 words are kind, humble, and joyful.
I love it.
And what I've just done is I've set my vision to live that each day in the same way that an organization may set a vision statement. But the clarity about this is make it simple. Otherwise, you'll just be drifting off in different directions. But if I live my life in those directions towards those 3 endpoints, starting as Covey says, with the end in mind, I've set my direction. And if I move away from it, I know it and I can readjust my course.
Another exercise I have people do along those same lines is, you know, I'm a big believer in the affirmations, the I am. And I'll challenge people not to come up with 2 or 3, but let's try 15 or 20. And for each one, is it positive or negative? Like, I'm stressed, I'm nervous, I'm anxious, or is it I'm joyful, I'm humble, I'm kind? And then what I do, Brian, is I'll say, prove it. You've heard me say this before. So, if somebody— it's a way of pre-proving it. Reprogramming the mind, so to speak. So if somebody has doubts and I'm afraid, I'm really nervous about this interview I'm going to go into, or I'm afraid I'm going to lose my job if I speak up or whatever, try, I'm fearless, I'm not afraid, and then prove it. Think of one time in the last 24 hours where you were joyful, you were kind, you were generous, you were humble, You were creative. I mean, whatever your I AMs are, and like I say, there's a whole lot of them. You don't have to limit yourself to just a handful. But when you come up with evidence that you actually are joyful, yeah, I was just laughing my tail off the other day, yesterday at such and such, or I came up with a really creative idea this morning when I got out of bed, or that locks it in more if you continue to practice that.
Yeah.
So, you can eliminate a lot of fear and doubt by turning it over and then proving—
In that book Beyond Success that you showed, it's so fun. I mean, we are just too copacetic. At the end of the book, there's an exercise that I have encouraged people to do called the Personal Victory Exercise. And it's exactly what you just said. Have people just write down all your personal victories, when you've been who you want to be, when you've been at your best, when you really raised your level, when you felt like you were in that flow and just write them down as affirmations. Then the addition is to attach a physical anchor to that. All right, so maybe just squeeze your wrist. So, I am unstoppable. I am unstoppable. I am unstoppable. And you've got all these experiences of proof that from your own experience. And as you start to do it, you start to feel yourself energized. You know what comes, you know, to everyone we touch, our energy is our example. And so, that actually leads to the second controllable, which is about energizing. And when we focus on what we want, when we build those affirmations into our daily practice, what we're doing is we're breathing energy into who we are. And that is to everyone. People won't remember that much of what we say, but they'll never forget our energy. Yeah.
I like to, I mean, I refer to it as spirit. We're breathing spirit, which is energy. And when you think about the word inspiration, in spirit, it translates to fearless. The spirit's not afraid of anything. So, when you—
yeah, you'll like this one. If you're not inspired, that means you're on the way to getting expired.
So, that's about right.
Yeah.
Well, you've got a few minutes left, Brian. So, the last controllable and a quick summary of the 3 just so everybody's got—
So, the second is to energize and engage your team. That, but of course, before you can energize and engage your team, who must you energize and engage? And it starts with yourself. And so, the challenge with energy for most people, or spirit, as you want to use the term, most people think their energy is like the weather. Man, I hope I have enough energy to make it through all these calls today.
Yeah.
But your energy is not like the weather. It is a choice based upon 3 key elements. One, changing the way you move. Your energy is created by the way that you move. In other words, whenever you've been at your best, you've moved distinctly differently than when you've not been your best. So, focus on elevating your movement. That's one. Second is purpose. In fact, when you're full of purpose, you're going to move differently.
Mm-hmm.
And another way of putting it, if you want to win your race, you've got to change your pace. But when we are full of purpose, we are full of energy. You ever notice when you get to do what you love to do, it doesn't matter how much sleep you had, it doesn't matter what's been on your mind. You get to love what you— when you get to do the thing you love to do, you are unstoppable. So, start every day with gratitude, which will lead us to purpose. What am I truly grateful about today? I bring with to me at every presentation I bring is a photo of my family. Now, I show it up on the board, but I don't bring it with me to show the audience. I bring it with me to show me, to remind myself of what's most important to me, what my purpose, what fills me up. And it changes me instantly. It doesn't matter how many times, how many flights were delayed, or if my knees ache. All that matters is that if I don't give everyone in front of me my best, I'm not giving them my best.
Yeah.
The last and the most important is to build people, build teams and relationships. And there's one fundamental above all, and that is to be fully present. Every time we're fully present, which is who you are, John, why you're so good at this show too, why you're so good in your life. When you're with John, when you're with John, you know that he's 100% there with you. He's listening to everything. He's not thinking about what he's going to say until he's heard you. And that sends a message to everyone that you're around that you are important. When we're fully present with people, we say to you, you matter, you count, you're significant, you're important. And whenever you're not present, when your mind's on the score of the ballgame, when you're thinking about something else, you send the opposite message. So, the foundation of building people, teams, and relationships, there's more to it, but the foundation is to be fully present.
Yeah. Well, I wrote a book years ago called Sage Leadership, which lists 17 different characteristics of wise leaders, and one of them is leading with attention. So, to your point, where you really do listen and empathize, the deeper form of listening is where you're really trying to feel whatever this person is feeling. You know, it's a classic Stephen Covey, you mentioned that. But think about this, you know, how often does somebody ask you your name and seconds later they can't remember? Happens to everybody sometimes, you know, but it's like because your mind wandered and you didn't control that mind. Just the same way it wanders towards fear or whatever else it wanders to. So, Brian, how can people reach you? You're a FUEL instructor, and I encourage everybody to check out Brian's courses and his books, of course. And so, what else, Brian? How else can people reach you?
Well, definitely go to myfuel.io and become a member because you don't just get me, you get 60 incredible teachers, including John Murphy, to get me. My passion is being in front of as many people as I can. I love speaking. It's on stage, I'm 25. I get off stage, I'm back to 71, but on stage I'm 25. And so it's just my website, brianbiro.com, all eyes, brianbiro.com. And, and I'd love to come and work with any organization because my It doesn't matter what industry. I've spoken to every industry there is. It's about people. Yeah.
Yeah. And I love that about people and about purpose, what you said about purpose. And I try to keep it simple for a lot of people when they're like, I'm not really sure what my purpose in life is. And I said, well, let me, let me make this real simple for you. You were born with a very special gift. Figure out what it is and give it away. Figure out why you're here. There's your purpose. Because it's to give, not to get. When you give away what you've been given in terms of thy will, not my will, affluence— the word affluent comes from the Latin word affluer, which means to flow to. When you are on purpose and you are about pulling people together and making things better, which is why we're all here, You become more and more affluent because that energy, that spirit delivers abundance to you. And it's not just, you know, opportunities, it's people, which translates into a lot of opportunities. Suddenly the phone rings and it's Alex from Fuel saying, hey, I'd like to talk to you about becoming a faculty member. Right? Something like that. When we recognize that the my will is the ego and to shift from ego to we go involves opening up to help, which is humbling, you know, in many cases, to use the term humble. Wow, things are amazing. So, please, everyone, reach out to Brian. If you've missed this episode live, check us out on YouTube, share it, of course, and then tune in next Friday on Fearless. I'll be leading the show myself. And really, the topic is about how do we know when the ego is running our lives? And then, of course, what can we do about it? And with that, Brian, any closing comments?
Just one thought for people to think about, which is really when you do this, you've moved from ego to wego. And that is consider being easy to impress but hard to offend. And if you live your life with that recipe, easy to impress, hard to offend, you'll be interested and curious about people around you. You'll give credit instead of seeking credit, and you won't take everything personal. And that's the ego at work when it's about personal. It may not mean that at all. So, be easy to impress and hard to offend and be fully present, and you are on the road to move from ego to wego.
Yeah, I love it. And yeah, be curious, be open, listen. Socrates once said, we have 2 ears, 1 mouth. Use them proportionately. You know, I love that. And keep judgment to yourself. That's a line from Isabel Myers from the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator.
Yeah, so much fun, John. It's just too short. We need to do longer shows.
Brian, we'll have you back on. Absolutely. Okay, so, uh, stay tuned. All right, thank you everyone, and, uh, we'll, we'll see you, uh, next time.
