SSP 004: Detachment

State Shifters Podcast, episode four Detachment.

Welcome to the State Shifters Podcast.

What's up, State Shifters, Episode four? We've got a conversation today around the topic of detachment, and this episode was I really, you know, took a back seat and let Collins kind of give a really good detailed description of what detachment means for him. And he has some really great personal stories that he shares that I encourage people to listen to because I felt very inspired after this episode. I think this is probably the best episode we've done so far. And detachment just really, for me means it's just letting go of. Letting go of the need to identify with potential possessions, your job, your personality, anything that you cling to that you think holds significant importance in who you are. If that doesn't make sense to you, consider if you were to die, what do you take with you to the grave? Most people cling to things in their life without realizing that when they die, they take nothing. So detachment for me is realizing that you don't. Nothing is really yours. So we go into more details about how you can apply or take on the method of detachment in your life. And, you know, Collins, give some really good stories of how you can do that in your life, too. So enjoy the episode. Josh, welcome back to State Shifters Podcast. How are you today, Jordan?

Yeah, very well, thanks, mate. Good to. Good to speak to you again.

Likewise, mate. Good to have you back on the line. I've actually just started a new job, so the timing of our show may have to take a small adjustment, but good to be back in the workforce, mate, over here in Canada.

Yeah, man. Sydney, good, buddy, good. Very well. It's. Mate, it's beautiful over here every day, actually. It's sunny. Sunny every day. Goes out of my lunch break in Central Hyde Park.

Yeah, rub it in.

It's bloody beautiful.

I don't leave the office, man. It's too cold. Way too cold. It's getting to that point where I just, like, yeah, I'll just stay inside, I think. Yeah, it's a part of it, I guess.

Yeah, you gotta get a couple more months of winter left.

Yeah, I know, I know. Anyways, mate, today we decided on a topic of detachment. It's an important. Definitely an important area to talk about because attachment and detachment is something that a lot of people experience but don't actually realize it because it's often a very unconscious behavior that. That you can find. You're attached to a lot of things but not actually realize it until you lose something and then you realize how much you relied on that for Your happiness. So what does attachment or detachment mean to you?

Yeah, man, big question. This is one of my favorite topics, detachment. I think, just in spirituality in general, because it's all based on the identity that you've created for yourself. And I think detachment is. Is really any. Anytime you feel like you're losing a part of that identity which doesn't have to be, you know, it doesn't have to be materially. It could be. It could be a relationship, a mental construct, an ideology, things that you. That you say, yes, that is me. That. That is who I am. So when you. I think. I mean, I think that's where a lot of suffering comes from, is when people once they are attached to that idea, all of a sudden when they lose anything, they're not just losing the thing itself, they're losing a part of themselves because they see themselves through that, through that attachment. So to me, man, I mean, I've been trying to practice a few different things, I think actually trying to get. Trying to get detachment. I was speaking to my housema. No. About just. Just about this today about. I think a great practice is. Is giving to homeless people.

Yeah.

And we were speaking about this, and I was saying that there's this need for people on the level of the mind to always, never, never, never lose anything. So people sometimes don't give to homeless people in the knowledge that they know they're not going to get anything back from that transaction. It's like a conditional form of giving, which is on the level of the mind. To me, to get over that attachment to what you have, you lose the mind. And all of a sudden, nothing is owned anymore. Everything is shared and communal. It becomes so much easier to transition and flow with the natural change of whatever your life brings you.

Yeah, so true. I mean, when nothing is owned, you can really. When you think about it, when you die, you don't take anything with you to the grave. So how can you own anything? So eventually you're going to have to give everything back anyway. But that's a really cool way to practice detachment, is. Yeah. Like giving. Giving without expecting anything in return.

That's right. The classic quote, accept this gift so I can see myself as giving.

Wow, amazing quote.

Yeah, man.

I know you have a cool story about you giving away something. I remember you telling me.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Did you want to share that?

I forgot about that. Yeah, I forgot about that. Actually.

A great example.

That's funny you brought that up. Yeah, that's really funny. Okay. Yeah, so I. This was when I was Kind of just starting to read about detachment and all these spiritual books and that. And I was coming back from the airport, just dropped my uncle off at the airport on the way back to England, and there was this. There was this girl with a sign saying Freo back to Fremantle, which is like, you know, in Perth, where we live. Yeah. On the way, just near my house, I was like, oh, I'll stop and pick her up. Just look like a friendly person.

So how far is Fremantle from the airport, if for people?

Was it like 15, 20Ks? Yeah, yeah, it was right in my house. So I was like, no, no, no skin off my back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Lovely. Like Spanish girl, been traveling around the world, come to Perth, like, to meet a friend. She was like, can you drop me at his house in Fremantle? I was like, sure.

Easy.

Had it, like, just had an easy conversation with her in the car. Get to the house. She's like, oh, do you want to come in? My friend's like, musician, and he has like a bunch of music, like, music instruments. I was like, oh, sick. Yeah, I'll come in. I'll come have a look, dude. This dude's house was amazing, man. He was a professional, professional busker and he had just guitars everywhere. And she was like, I've come here. I'm looking to learn, Like, I want to learn guitar so I can play with my, like, with my friend here. I was like, oh, I've got a spare guitar if you want it. And she was like, oh, no way. And I was like, I got in my head. I was like, yeah. Like, she's obviously not. She doesn't have that much money. She's backpacking around, like, around the world. I was like, she wants. She wants this thing so she can. She. So she can play with her friend. At the time, I'd just gotten a second guitar. I was like, it was. I suppose that was. For me, it was like an easier transition of detaching it. Like a. It was like I just got given a guitar, so. So therefore I can now give this. Give this away. It's kind of like the universe had given me something. So I was like, let me practice this detachment to this object that I have. Yes. Because in my, you know, in my living now, I obviously had detached. I had attachment to this object that I classified as my guitar. I was like, I wanted to practice that, considering I didn't need. Like, I didn't actually need the guitar. I was like, let me practice the detachment to it. So I gave her the guitar and she was so she was so thankful, man. It was. It was a great feeling. I was, like, giving with, expecting nothing back, man. And it was a really nice feeling, man.

That's. Yeah, it's such an amazing story, man, because that's. It's not. That's not easy to do, man, to give away a guitar. Guitars are expensive. Like, seriously. That's why I film it.

For me, that's a big.

It's a big thing to enjoy. Yeah, that was the other.

That was the other thing when I gave my PS4 to Dre and Brennan.

Yeah, that's huge.

That was. That's. I think this for me, has just been. I've been trying to practice it as much as possible because. Because once you experience it, you realize how, like, what an amazing feeling you get from unconditional giving. Like, you know, giving. Giving and just giving in the knowing that giving produces receiving.

Yeah, that's.

Like Deepak Chopra says that the universe is just a constant flow of energy, that the body is made up of energy. The universe is energy, which really is big pool of energy. So giving to the universe has to come back in the form of something else. It really gives money. You give money. He just says to receive something, you need to give it away.

Yeah.

You need to help people. Help people get what they want before you try and go out into the world and get what you want. Because it just creates this. This effortless flow of. Of affluence into your life.

Just give me, save, constantly given. Receive.

Yeah, it's just. It's just the flow of the universe.

Yeah, it's. That's awesome. I feel like if. If anyone's not done that before, like, just given something away without expecting, you're right. You get some sort of energy that just, like, fills you. This, like, life energy that you feel like you've done something, and even though you get nothing in return, it's like.

I don't know.

It's. It's. You can't describe it. It's just. It's a beautiful feeling. Like. I don't know. Even when I give, like, to, like, a homeless person, I just feel good. I feel like my day just gets lifted and.

Yeah.

You know, knowing the fact that I've maybe made someone's day a little bit better.

Well, you know. You know, well, your. Your. One of your favorites. Wayne Dyer had famously gave away all his possessions at the age of 60 as a detachment practice. But one of his kind of, like, more. More realistic practices was, he said, choose your favorite piece of clothing and give it away. And for a lot of people, man, I think that would be really hard.

I think so, yeah.

And then I think what you have to do from there is question why. Why is this so hard for me to give this away? And I think what you end up finding is that your attachment or your need to get something or gain something is derived from the mind's constant feeling of lack. It constantly lacks things. So that's why it feels like it needs to hold on to the things that it's already got. And that's the attachment. The attachment is. Is the feeling of lack that then causes you to want to hold everything that you have. This is mine, and I'm possessive over this because I can't lose it. I'm already lacking those as it is. So all this constant need to get someone else or to go somewhere or to look a certain way, to be seen as a certain person, just causes this constant pool of kind of a reactiveness to the present moment where you're not in a flow with the universe anymore. You're constantly reacting and reactive to the current moment and what's happening. And I think that's the derivative of attachment. It's that constant feeling of lack. And when you understand the fundamental point that your being the person underneath the identity you've formed is perfect the way it is, and there's nothing that on the level of the world can improve it, then I think your attachment naturally disappears.

Yeah, without a doubt. I think. See, you could say, you could categorize attachment to three things like attachment to people, attachment to places, attachment to things. You know, we've spoke about attachment to things like personal items. I think I wanted to bring in attachment to people and more specifically relationships, because I think attachment in relationships is definitely a cause for a lot of suffering. And I know I experienced that myself in my first relationship. I definitely felt attached. And when I was not around that person, I felt a sense of lack. And I think those type of relationships can become very quite, I would say, toxic. But, like, also they're unsustainable because there's always arguing and fighting. Can you talk a little bit about, like, attachment in relationships and how. How do you know if you're attached to someone in a relationship?

Yeah, man, that's fine. That brings in a lot of different. A lot of different time. I'm making my head around this. I think. I think attachment in relationships, as well as attachment at a lot of different levels is. Is derived once again from the need to be seen or. Or viewed as a certain person or in A certain way, an attachment to certain people is produced by the same methodology. When looked at on the level of the mind, you associate yourself with the people you want to. To be seen a certain way. And it's the same in physical relationships with someone. The problem is people think that by having this person, it's going to fill the hole that I have. So it's still, it's still derived from this sense of lack. And by having this person, I will then feel better or I will then be the person I need to be. Which is a tough thing to get. It's a tough thing to get rid of, man, because you're both. Especially when you see. I mean, as you said, a lot of relationships can be dysfunctional, but it's because they're both looking for happiness in each other. And once you have something that's not within your control providing you happiness, it has to at some point cause you suffering. It's, it's. Yeah, it's. It's kind of like a really. I think what, I mean, what Eckhart. Probably one of my favorite quotes ever is from Eckhart, and it says, love should never want or fear. And that's really what that is because attachment is fear and also desire. So it's either fearing something being taken away or changed, or you losing something or it's wanting or desiring something to be different in order to be seen a certain way.

Yeah, that's.

I think, yeah, man. Once you can get to a relationship, I think with a certain person where you don't want or fear anything from them, the relationship is perfect the way it is. I mean, that's, that's, that's my personal goal. But I think, I think the stereotypical relationship is like somewhat dysfunctional in most relationships. And that's perceived as normal people have arguments, couples have arguments like we don't get along all the time. All these comments that's kind of seen as the normality is of two people in a relationship will not always get along, but that's because they're basing their happiness within that other person. So how they act naturally causes fluctuations in emotion.

And that brings on elements of jealousy. I think over jealous people often suffer from that fear, that attachment, and then that attachment results in fear.

That's it.

And it's all too common, man. You see it all the time and it causes so much. I think especially when you go out to nightclubs. I think most violence is caused by overreacting. You know, boyfriends who can't stand seeing their girlfriend talk to someone because they're.

But that comes again, man. That comes again from the point of this is mine. People see you cannot be attached to something unless you have a feeling of possession. It has to be attached to you, it has to be yours. So therefore, if you see your partner as you owning them or them being a part of you, naturally, if you have fear of that being taken away from you, you cling to it. But it's because of this dysfunctional thought that you own someone or you own a certain. Like, this idea is yours, which I think is. Another important point is the attachment to ideas or ideologies. This is. This idea is. This is what I think and this is who I am. Or this is what I have, and this is why I have it. And that's what makes me me. Or this is who I. This is who I interact with. And that's. This is because I want to be saint in a certain way. I think once you once, I mean, really, once you lose the. Once you lose the feeling of possession and, and owning things as part of your identity, detachment will naturally fall away.

Yeah, and like. Yeah, that's such a good point. Attachment to, like, personal stories like your own. People are so attached to their own story of who they are, and then often that's why they cut themselves off from growing into a greater person is because they're holding on to a, like a past story of themselves, which kind of restricts them from growing. And that's such good examples of that as, like the, you know, the person who's, like, lost his job, he's clinging onto that version of him as the unemployed, you know, individual who now can't find a job. Whereas if you detach from the past, you free yourself up to unlimited opportunities now in the future. But, yeah, attachment to opinions, attachment to personal stories, attachment to past traumas, you know, that's what, you know, a lot of people who have suffered abuse in the past still attached to that identity, that they're an abused person, that they have all this trauma from that. How do you think people go about detaching from past stories of themselves?

Yeah, man. I mean, that's really. I mean, obviously, depending on the severity of what happened, that's very hard thing to do. I mean, if you're talking about. If you're talking about abuse or, you know, sexual abuse, I mean, that's something that's going to take years to overcome. But I mean, I think no matter how large, it still goes through the same process. Yeah, still goes through the same process. It might Just take a little bit longer to comprehend. And I think what you really have to do in that position is to genuinely think about why I think this is me and why I want to hold on to it. Because I was having a conversation with Noel, once again, my housemate, about if you go through a painful situation, I think we were talking about this last week. You've experienced the suffering of the world through this situation. By being attached to the situation, every time you think about it, you relive that situation over and over again. This is why I was saying previously that 10% of suffering, or 10% what we call pain, is externally inflicted and 90% of suffering is internally inflicted. The situation happened once, yet you may have a thousand thoughts about it over the next 10 years. So you're putting yourself through that pain a thousand more times by detaching yourself to that situation. To me, I try to think about it logically, which is hard to do when you're in a highly emotional state. Why would I want to put myself through a thousand times more suffering than I've already experienced, especially when it's within my own control?

Yeah, I mean that's. Yeah. When you think about it logically, it makes so much sense. But then like you said in the moment, it's sometimes hard to detach.

That's why meditation is so important to quieten the mind so that you can get to that point of no thought where you can actually focus on the logic behind it, on the factual part of the universe. That's tough, man. Yeah, it's really tough. Obviously, depending on the actual situation. I mean, I think that that's a practice more than anything if it's a tough, emotionally charged situation.

Yeah, I mean, you mentioned practice.

Like obviously all.

All things are a practice, especially a spiritual practice like detachment. You know, what's something you could advise to people to practice detaching? Like, is there little things that people can do on like a day to day? Like, like you mentioned giving things away without expecting anything in return. What else can people do?

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean my. I think the biggest, biggest thing in my day to day life is giving to the homeless. Because I know it's a bit, you know, it's a big thing I like, I genuinely care about. But to me it's also a great meditative practice. Sometimes I go and they're. On the rare occasion that I actually have cash, I'll give whatever I have in my wallet. So I try to give more than just two or three dollars or whatever spare change I have. I'LL try to give them 50 or 20 if I have a note. And for me at this point in time, it's almost as much about the giving as. As it is about me detaching myself from the money, knowing that in giving this $50 to him, I don't get any service or I don't get any. I don't get any additional benefit in return. And $50, I mean, it's not, it's not a small sum of money for me. So that's why I think that's. It's a. It's a worthy practice because I'm practicing with something that feels uncomfortable. But in that act of giving.

I.

Just like to think about no matter what happens with that money, that person needed it more than I did, regardless of what they end up doing with it. I think that's important because you don't want to be giving just to have the intention of your desired outcome for this person. Having an interesting conversation with Noel earlier actually about. I think that's still conditional giving, giving with the intention of this money helping this person, which is obviously what you want. But does it change your. Does it change your desire to give? If you know they're going to go and spend it on something like drugs or alcohol, does that change your. Does that. If they told you that's what they were going to spend it on, does that change your intention for giving? I think that's an important practice to understand that you give absolutely unconditionally, expecting nothing in return. I think if you can build yourself up, build yourself up as well as the other one we mentioned, throwing one of your favorite things out or not out giving it away. Throwing. Giving away one of your favorite items. But I think actually important part. I think Eckhart raises. I think what it actually encourages is constantly dying to the past, which you've mentioned before. That's really, to me, what it brings on is the fact that the attachment is only attachment to the past and past identity. So by practicing detachment, it's an additional way to help dying constantly to the past identity of you.

Yeah, I love that. Especially the money aspects. It's very easy to become attached to money because we associate money with the things we can buy, which kind of inflate our identity that we're often attached to. And yeah, especially for us, when we don't really have that much money to give, it's. It becomes even more of a spiritual practice because like you said, man, that that person obviously needs that money more than you or obviously could do more with that money than what I could or you could. So I think remembering that is a good one. And then I really encourage people to do it. Yeah, just. Just give something and then just notice how you feel with, like you said, without having an intention of getting anything in return. I think it's just an appreciation for helping someone who needed it more than you. I think that's the essence of life, man. Our life is around helping people who are in need more than us.

Really.

Giving to something greater than yourself. When you do that, that's when you really feel whole and complete because you recognize that you're already whole and complete yourself. So you're able to give as much as you want.

So, yeah, man, you're an endless source of energy.

That's it.

Constantly refilling. Yeah.

And, you know, you realize.

You realize that giving. You realize that giving something doesn't necessarily take something away from you. It doesn't have to. I mean. Yeah, I think that's that point in the seven spiritual laws to Success, he says, recognize when you give. Is there any feeling that you're losing something? And if you recognize that feeling, then meditate on it or become aware of it, Question why you're feeling that attachment, and then let it go. Understanding the fact that nothing is truly owned, once you get past the level.

Of the mind, that's powerful stuff. And I think we'll leave people with that because. Yeah, like you said, if you feel like you're lacking. Yeah, I think that's a good advice. Just meditate on it. Let it go, man.

That's big topics. Big topics.

It's another topic where you could really talk about it for an extended time because there's different branches of that key idea. But I think you've touched on a lot of the main points, and I think we won't bombard people with too much information. But yeah, the practical advice you gave there, I think it's so beneficial and so actionable that people can take a lot away from that. Thanks for sharing that.

Oh, man, thank you. That was wicked. Yeah. Great chatting to you again, man.

Look forward to the next one, man.

Yeah. All the best with the job.

Thanks, man.

Yeah, no worries. Talk to you soon, buddy.

Bye.