SSP 022: Josh Collins – Spiritual Growth While In A Romantic Relationships

For those that have followed my journey, they know how important meditation has been for me in transforming the way I go about the things that I do. And it really wasn't until I started meditating for up to an hour was when a big shift started to happen. And I know for a lot of people who meditate, you know, an hour seems like a long time. And I really believe to really get the true benefits out of meditation, you need to sit for an extended period more than your regular 20 minutes that most people do. Now, the biggest challenge for most people, I've realized, is getting past that first phase, which is quietening the mind enough so that you can truly experience the benefits of meditation. For me, those benefits are connecting with just pure oneness, a place of pure love and energy that fuels you, that stays with you throughout your whole day and actually changes everything. You start to change your reality when you start, start to tap in and tune into this energy. For me, it took an hour to connect with it. Sometimes it takes two hours. But the biggest challenge for most people was quieting the mind. So that's why I've gone ahead and decided to create a free guide to quietening the mind. And you can get access to this free guide either on the podcast page where you're listening to this episode or if you just type state-shifters.com there'll be a pop up to come up where you can download that free guide and it will help you get access to these amazing benefits meditation can offer. Hello, guys. Welcome to the Stage Shifters podcast. This is Jordan Kanlish here. Stage Difference podcast for people who are looking to really tune into higher states of awareness and live a life of passion and purpose. And in this episode I have got Josh Collins in person and we. Josh was visiting Toronto for a week back in July, I think it was, and it was really great to have him in town. And we caught up and did a lot of fun things and we wanted to sit down and do a podcast together. Because I started the podcast or the idea of the podcast came when I left my hometown of Perth and I was on my way over to Toronto. I spent some time in Sydney with Josh and we were having these really interesting conversations about the deeper and meaningful stuff in life, stuff beneath the surface that I feel. I just love chatting about this kind of stuff. And that's where the idea was born. I was like, why don't we just, why don't I start a podcast and we just start talking, we share these conversations that we're having because I feel people could get benefit from them. And then the podcast kind of evolved from there. When I arrived in Canada, I did all the relevant, necessary research to get the podcast up and running and then I would jump onto Skype calls with Collins whenever our time zones were able to match up the time difference and we would record our conversation. So this was actually the first in person podcast we got to do. We've done together and Josh has just recently got a girlfriend and he's now in a relationship. And we thought it would be a good opportunity for us to discuss what living in how to go about mindful relationships or relationships where we're engaging.

A.

Deeper level of understanding. Relationships pose so many opportunities for us to grow together, but more so grow within ourselves. And Josh answers some really cool, really interesting questions about how to assess whether a relationship is purely surface level or there's something, something deeper. Deeper. A deeper connection with your partner. So this is a interesting episode and I'm sure you're gonna get a lot of valuable information out of it. So enjoy. Got some nice coffee here. Jimmy's Coffee Toronto, Ontario. Welcome to the Stage Shifters podcast. Got Josh Collins alongside me for our first in person interview. Collins has graced me with his presence here in Toronto for the past week. This is his last day. He flies out this afternoon. So we thought we'd sit down and have a chat, do a podcast. Today's topic is going to be about relationships. Collins, welcome to Toronto. Welcome to our first in person interview.

Thanks, buddy. It's. Yeah, it's been a long time coming. Nice to be in the city, beautiful city of Toronto and it's lovely to be with you after our long time apart as well. Excited for this one?

Yeah, mate, very excited. We've been thinking about a topic to discuss past couple of days and relationships is something that has come up a few times for us in some of our earlier episodes. But if we thought we wanted to dedicate a full podcast today to relationships, because relationships aren't easy for a lot of people, it brings on a lot of challenges, both personal challenges, dealing with our own inner world, but also for other people. Like other people get triggered a lot in relationships. So you're in it, you're in a relationship right now.

That's a bit of an update for me. Yeah. Shout out to Meg.

Hey, Meg.

Since our, I think probably since our recent podcast, man, I've re entered into the world of, of relationships and it just popped up, man, out of the blue, I think. And as I was saying before offline, I think it came to me At a time when I was ready for it, as I'd put myself on the bench for a little while as I'll discuss. I was on the sideline, I was happy there and I think I was finally ready to learn. It was my time to learn how to be in a functioning relationship. And then once I was open to it, it just popped up naturally.

Yeah, man, it's great because now you're gonna have a slightly new perspective compared to our last conversation where you weren't in relationships. And now there's all these new challenges that are coming your way where you're learning along the process, as we all are. But it's gonna be great to hear you kind of talk about this as the relationship's evolving in itself. So I guess we could start somewhere. Start somewhere here around. How did you. How did you know that the time was right when you said it popped up? But I guess there must have been an element of readiness within you that allowed this to happen.

Yeah, I think, I think. I mean, I've been on the bench. I've been single for about three, three and a half years. And that was based on. I think I've spoken to you before about my last relationship and I was a bit, you know, a bit young, still didn't know who I was, what an actual relationship entailed. So I. From there I just, I kind of realised I needed more time for myself to actually comprehend what I was missing before I tried to find that in anyone else. Because I think I just looked around, I looked around at societal relationships and what the norm is. And I just saw a lot of people that had something, I suppose, missing and were trying to fill that void with a partner. Everyone has friends, those people that are eternally in relationships and they become single and the next week they've got another person. And I think for. For me, it's similar to addictive substances in the fact that you're constantly trying to use another person, in this case to try and fill that void that you have inside you. So I realized for me, I didn't want to be in a relationship. And I told you I was comfortable if I never was because I knew if I didn't work myself out first and I had filled that internal void that I didn't want to be in a relationship because I found it inherently selfish. And I think I'd worked enough on myself and I generated enough self love that I could finally give freely and not be in a relationship for my purposes, but just be with someone and observe them for who they are. Without using them as a means to an end for my own happiness. Yeah. So I think that's how I knew I was ready, man.

Beautiful, man. I think so many people go into relationships sometimes, like you said, as a mechanism to fill the void. Like you said, alluded to people who just jump from relationship to relationship, not really understanding the inner dynamics of what's going on there. There's an external relationship, but then there's also the internal relationship with ourselves that so many people refuse to acknowledge during intimate relationships. I found that to be the most interesting part for me is the relationship with myself that I was always monitoring. And a lot of the time, it's always us. If there's ever a conflict, it's always us. Nobody has control over how we feel. It's our response to it.

That's so true. What you find is that if you've got something that you're missing and you find someone initially and you're like, yes, this person makes me happy. They're like. They're helping me overcome something, then that's all well and good, it's perfect, and it plays out well. The issue is when you try to avoid change and you try to hold that person the same way they were when you first met them. Because, I mean, everything changes. Things are changing constantly, regardless of if you see them or not. They're changing under the skin. And problems start to emerge when you have this person who was a triangle when you met them, and they fill your triangle hole In a year's time, they're a square and you're still trying to make them a triangle. And I found that my issue in my first relationship was that I. I found myself wanting. Wanting them to be different. Wanting them to say or act the way in which I thought was proper or which I thought would show people that we were in a good relationship or that, you know, represented the image that I wanted. And that's. That's the thing, I think if you take. If you see a relationship as ownership, like you have. Like you have ownership over each other, like, I'm yours, you're mine, then they're attached to the image as well. And the image that you want to present to the world. So you have to make them fit into that image because they're not just another person. They're part of you now. And that's when things become. Things become quite difficult. You get all these relationships these days that are very polarized. It's either extreme happiness or extreme upset or anguish, because it's constantly one day they'll fit the hole. The other one they don't. And it's this push and pull of. And the issue is it's happening on both sides as well. So it's this constant. It's this constant push, pull of. I want you to be this. No, I want you to be this. And it's constant. So I think it's. Yeah. My biggest takeaway for any relationship is that if you can learn to be comfortable with yourself, then you have an infinite amount of love to give. Like infinite amount of love. It's like the fridge analogy. I told you.

Remind me.

The endless fridge is that if you had a fridge that constantly topped up its own food with whatever you wanted, then you'd have no need to go to the grocery store. So if you can fill up your own internal fridge with everything you need, be self sufficient with love, then you never have to go seeking it externally. And whatever you get additional to that is just awesome. It's just amazing. There's no reason to go out and hoard food or buy as much food as you can. It's just the endless fridge, man. That's self love. And if you can conquer that, every relationship you have will be. Will be infinitely easier.

Yeah, beautiful, man. Well said. I always look back to when I was younger and I had my first relationship and I compare how that was like, like you just described as the, the attachment to the identity of someone else being a part of me. Their role is to, to fulfill this expectation in my head that I'd set them out to be, that they are my partner. They are to, to behave this way, act this way, make me feel a certain way. And then often when they don't live up to that, that's when things turn toxic. And we often see that in entertainment on tv. Because all this toxic conflict that arises in these types of relationships is what causes this extreme polarity between immense happiness and sadness. And we don't see too much about the mindful relationships or the more aware relationships where people work through things on an individual level and then come together as a, as a collective union to work through things. And I think this is the goal of this, this type of podcast is to help people not only evolve together, but evolve as individuals in a relationship, because that's the most important thing. It's like it's always you. And I think, yeah, just think back to how I was in my first relationship. Do you think it's necessary to go through that to have that first relationship as that kind of, you know, between the ages of like 16 to 21, you're still very unaware of, of, of how much a relationship can trigger you personally. But more so how to, how to work through something like that. Is it necessary to go through those, those early learning phases or can you do the inner work first and then go into a relationship? Already figured things out?

Yeah, I think it depends, man. I think everyone has their own individual journey. For me and you, I think we probably went through a similar, a similar thing, Young heartache. I'm sure a lot. And I'm sure a lot of people go through that. I think like you said before, it's how you react to that that makes the difference. Like how can you, can you figure out a way to learn from that experience or are you just gonna go through and try and make it work again? Like, yeah, I see a lot of people that don't. They finish one relationship, then they blame it on the person, they blame it on the other person for that. Oh, it just wasn't meant to be. But then they don't change any of their actions going into the next relationship. They do exactly the same thing and they get the same result. So I think if you can, if you can look at where the fall down was and take some personal responsibility rather than blaming all of the issues on the relationship towards the other person, you can actually get something out of that and you can benefit in the long term. I've seen people that like, people have been in relationships since I was 16. You know, they fall in love with their first love, man, and still happy marriage like 40 years later. I don't see any, like some people have it straight away where they're just, they're in a harmonious relationship and they allow each other to be individuals and then as you say, they come together as individuals to a union. It's not, it has to be a symbiotic relationship. They have to be individuals first and a partnership and a partnership second. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's, I think that's the important part.

Most definitely. Another thing that I've recognized because this ties in quite nicely with that is you said the people who kind of work from the get go from day one, they just hit it off and they stay together for sometimes a whole lifetime. There's a book that I read called the Five Love Languages which I think kind of ties into that, which might explain why that works for some people and why it doesn't for others. When you're unaware of how you, what your love languages are, whoever you choose to partner with they either fulfill those love languages either consciously or unconsciously, or they don't. And when they don't, which is generally an unconscious way of engaging in a relationship. If those love languages don't get fulfilled, there'll always be an element of wanting more or lack in the relationship. I know you've read the book as well, the Five Love Languages. What did you take away from the book? Because. Yeah, it was important for me when.

I. Yeah, I think that brings in what we were talking about before is communication.

Yeah.

And understanding. Because you can have a relationship work where as long as you know what your partner's like. Love language is because it sets up an unconscious expectation where, you know, they might be material, gang or materialistic. They see love as they see love in material and giving.

Maybe we should list the love languages before we go any deeper. You know what?

The five, give me a test if.

You can remember them.

Time giving, giving, Touch, touch.

Words of affirmation and the fifth one. Fifth one. It will come to us. It will come to us. Never mind. Yeah, please continue.

Different ways, different ways in which people.

It's just ways of expressing love.

Yeah. But I think if you can, if you can be open understanding of who the other person is, but also accept that they may change. Can you look at someone not for their external achievements or what they're doing or who they hang around with. Can you look at them for their essence, the person they are? Because as their external situation changes, it's always going to change. Can you be okay with, can you be okay with that? Like, look at, look at yourself, I suppose, ask yourself genuinely, am I, am I, am I in love with the external or am I in love with the person? Like, yeah, it's, it's, it's. I think it's, it's a, it's a tough question because if you come to the, if you come to the realization that, oh shit, I am in love with the external person like this, it's an image based relationship, then what do you do from there?

Do you mind just clarifying that a little further? Like when you say external based person, would that be like the physical appearance, the. Just the personality and not, not the depth that you're saying, which is the. Yeah, anything.

Yeah, anything that focuses on anything that focuses on identity and image. So yeah, attachment to anything, Anything to do with the way they, I mean, I mean most, most relationships, if they're just purely physical and just based off the way they look, I think we already know they're inherently dysfunctional because there's no, there's no depth. There is. There's no depth to the relationship. But. Yeah, even. Even things. Even things like. I suppose it goes back to the same point is, are they. Are they filling a certain hole that you require? Because it's not their identity, it's your identity. Do they match in with who you think you are? Right now? It's just more of an awareness that things can change and things will change. And can you be okay with that when it happens?

That's it. You nailed it. Because, like, the external is always changing. So if you're in love with the external, you've got to realize that that could change at some point, which, where, if the person is changing and you're not okay with that, then all of a sudden there may come a point where you may. The same person you fell in love with might be a different person on an external level in 3 or 4 years time or however long. But underneath that, like, you're saying if you can still love the person for their essence, who they are, you work through those changes together, Right?

Yeah, man.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

I think important, what you raised before, before as well, is like the, like, kind of like the institution of, of relationships or like love, like what we see, what we're taught. I think that that brings up the point of what I was talking about before was conditional and unconditional. Love is like, I feel like we're. I feel like the way in which we're taught is a. Is a. Is conditional love. Yeah. Where it's. It's the punishment reward system. It's if you act this way, I love you. If you act this way, punish you.

Yeah.

So it's kind of pushing people into, this is the way you need to act to receive my love. And we learn this from kids. Like, this is the way we're taught to behave as kids, what we're taught to behave in school. So this is the way we learn to love. We learn to love conditionally when really, like, that's. That can't be loved. Eckhart says love doesn't exist where there is want and fear. So wherever you feel. And this was a big shift for me. I just found myself wanting the person I was with to be different to the way they were. And not only is this impossible, it's completely dysfunctional because it's me trying to fit a triangle into a square and understanding that I have no control, I have no control over the way they act, what they do, what they say, because they're their own person. And if I find myself doing that, it's completely my problem. Nothing to do with them. Whereas often we externalize and say, why aren't you doing this? You should be doing this. It has nothing to do with them. They're acting and doing whatever they do out of exactly who they are. So to try and change that is preposterous. It doesn't make any sense. And also it sets up a resistance to the present moment, which automatically throws everything out of way because resisting the person you're with is also resisting the moment, because they're acting as they are, because that's the way they're meant to act. Everything they've ever done has led them to this point where they're acting right now. So to resist how they act is to resist the moment. And it sets up a massive, massive hole. Yeah. If you can learn to love unconditionally in a relationship, regardless of how they act or who they are, it sets up such an easy and peaceful relationship. As we were saying before, you still encounter conflict, but you can overcome it so much easier.

That's the beautiful part for me because all of a sudden now the conflict. I consider the conflict to be a good thing because anytime there's a conflict or anytime there's a resistance, like you said, that arises within me to something perhaps my partner is doing, there's my opportunity to look within and work on myself because clearly something within me is getting triggered. It's all me. Yeah.

That's important. You always go back to the four agreements. It's not taking anything personally. The external action is only making me feel this way because there's something in me that doesn't agree with it. Why is there resistance there?

There?

And it's always coming from within. It is always coming from within you. Bang on.

It's the question, man. Just ask why. Yeah, you can dig.

Yeah.

Yeah, man. The thing is, though, when people don't ask those inner questions and don't do that inner work and it gets covered, or we just distract ourselves from it, those little resistances can. Can actually stay. They don't get resolved. They will come up again. And when this is left for 30, 20 years, they can turn into, like, resentment to our partner.

Yeah. So true.

And a lot of. A lot of people live with this just resentment to their spouse or husband, and it just leads to dysfunction, at least unhappiness. So if you can catch those moments. Yeah. And work on them and use them as times for inner growth.

And I think the other point of that is people staying in dysfunctional relationships because they're fearful of being alone. Like that to me, is a very like. I don't know how much I see it, but to be honest, I'm not sure why it happens. I don't know if they stay because they think they can change someone else. I mean, my point of view is you can't change anyone else unless they want to change. So I'm not sure if they stay there because they feel like they can still make a difference to this person and make them fit how they want them to be, which can't happen, or if they're fearful that if they leave they'll be by themselves. But that's a tough decision to make. If you're in a position where you feel that way, it can be hard to cut off that relationship. But if you can, if you can realize that it can often be more detrimental to stay in that relationship than being alone and that being alone is a very important thing to do, hopefully you can understand that there might be a need to move on sometimes.

Yeah, 100%. So if someone's in a dysfunctional relationship or someone is maybe becoming more aware of these things that we've been talking about here, and they're with someone who is perhaps one of these people who have been jumping from relationship to relationship looking for fulfillment in someone else, looking to fill a hole in someone else. What sorts of things can we suggest people say, start doing to maybe help these people look within to see what's being triggered? Because it's a difficult thing because if someone's not ready to start doing this kind of inner work, if we try and force them to do it, it's only going to make things worse. Yeah, maybe someone's listening who might know of someone, be like, ah, that my friend, is this is, this is what they do. They're just, they're unfulfilled and they're looking for external happiness.

I think if you're in a relationship with one of these people who you can see in their head a lot doesn't like being by themselves. It's a lack of self love usually. So the thing that's a remedy to that is unconditional love. It's a complete acceptance of who they are as a person. It's like saying, be the action you want to do it. Sorry.

Be the change.

Be the change you want to see in the world. It's being accepting of that other person until they accept themselves. If you can do that unconditionally, it's changed through action. It's not changed through telling them to do something. Yeah. For me if you're, if you're with someone like that and you're like, yes, I know this is going to work because this is the person, you genuinely connect with them on a deeper level then you. Yeah. The best way to go is through unconditional love. Acceptance of how they act, what they do, what they say, just because that's who they are, you know, and that's the person that, that you love.

Just be the love you want to see in someone.

Yeah, that's right, man. That's right. Because often it's because that, that is the dysfunction that it's. If both people are like that, it's this push pull of such strong emotions. If you can be just a calm, a calm lake man, just still water. You can, you can, you can, yeah, you can, you can show the other person like that they're okay. Exactly as they are.

Yeah.

And their, their thoughts about themselves. The negative self talk will slowly calm down. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's. I, I genuinely believe that that can work. I think if you can identify in yourself the other, the other, other topic. If you can identify in yourself that you're one of these people that struggles to be alone, that is constantly in their own head. Negative self talk. You've become aware that self love is an issue and that's something you're seeking externally. I think the best place to start is you have to spend time on your own. But if you can't sit alone with yourself because your thoughts are too, you don't like your thoughts, they're too destructive, then find something or somebody or a group that can help. Do a guided meditation. Do a, like we've just come out of sound healing. Something that, where you're in a supportive network, a group environment, you know, therapist, one on one coaching. Something where someone can guide you through that mind chatter, help you understand that none of it is real. It's learned behavior and it's learnt negative self talk. If you can work through that with somebody, you can get to a point where eventually you can sit by yourself and just watch your thoughts until you come to this point where you realize everything you've ever done and everything you ever will do is perfect just the way it is because it can't be any other way. That's when you've reached the point of pure self love, man. Everything you do is just what you do and it's driven by compassionate action. Then you can go out and give love willingly. I think one issue is that people who give, they see giving love as losing something. And that has to be an equal exchange. If I do this, if I give, I have to give, get something back. One of the great sayings is that one candle can light 1000 candles without losing any of its original flame. That love can be shared infinitely without having anything return to it. And once you have that full fridge, man, once you have that self replenishing fridge, you can give out food freely to whoever you want without fear of ever losing it.

It. That's the key, man. Nailed it, man.

That's the key. Great.

Oh wow. So to ponder that one for a second, that was. That's a great answer. One thing that came up while you were talking for me was Eckart, Eckhart Tolle, one of my favorite authors and spiritual teachers is. He talks a lot about pain, the pain body. And I thought it's important to recognize that a distinction between allowing someone to be the space for someone when they're going through inner turmoil being the space, but at the same time not fueling the pain body any further. So it's having unconditional love for someone even when they might be seeking their pain body is seeking future fuel.

Yeah.

Just not, not giving. Yeah. I think that's an important thing.

There's a distinction. Yeah.

Between.

Between enabling and accepting. Because if you're. Yeah, I know what you mean. If you're, if you're, if you're enabling their egoic behavior, then it can be, it can be self destructive.

Yes.

If you're, if you're constantly validating everything they try and get off you.

Correct.

Then it works. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's not, it's not, it's not that. You're right, there is a distinction there.

But for, for people who don't know what the pain body is, the pain body is something that Eckhart defines as the ego's like seek for, for external. External like content or external energy to fulfill a lack of energy that has been. Or a hole that's been opened up through a past trauma or a past event or something that essentially like imagine holes in the conscience, in our soul. And the pain body is looking to cover those holes through the, through the ego, which is only external.

It's constantly in a state of lack. Lack, which we've spoken about a lot before, is that all of these things that are external most often are trying to fill. Still trying to fill those holes. Yeah. Whether. Whether it be, you know, any, any type of sensory activity that, that's pleasurable yeah. Which is often. Often a partner. You got. You get that rush. You know, you get that rush when.

You first meet someone, even sex, man.

Yeah, and that's. That's right. That's. That's why it's an addictive. It's an addictive behavior because it. It fulfills that. That sensory. That sensory feeling, and you feel so good for a temporary period of time. And people want it. People chase that, man. They want it over and over and over again. Yeah, but, yeah, you're bang on. There's a difference between accepting behavior and enabling behavior. You have to be aware enough to understand the difference, I suppose, and say no, like you. I suppose it's def. It's. It's when you can feel there's an expectation on you from the other person. You can feel that they're wanting me to be a certain way, the role. And I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna act in the way they want me to if it counter. If it's counterintuitive to how I want to act. Yeah, but if you're. If you're aware enough in yourself and you say, yeah, this is. This is who I am. This is how I'm gonna act. And you don't falter on that because someone else is wanting you or fearful of how you may act. Yeah. Then it's just an acceptance of however they're acting. I suppose you had another point about that as well. What we're going to talk about.

It'll come to me, but I want to switch gears a tiny bit here because we've spoken now about. It's a difficult one because relationships could be broken down into different situations. I. I think that both people, if two people in a relationship, are both unaware and going through the conditioned roles that they're behaving. I don't think they're going to be listening to this podcast.

Perhaps not.

Perhaps not. I think the people who are going to listen to the podcast are the ones who are awakening or have begun their process of awakening and they are becoming more aware. But maybe their partner's not yet. Maybe the partner's still. Still not open yet, but not fully asleep. It's not. Doesn't have to be one or the other, say one person. The person who's listening to this podcast is becoming more aware yet, but their partner is not. And sort of something that I'm going through now in my relationship. It's not something that I don't talk about these kind of. I don't use the same language when I'M talking about these kind of things with my partner. But that doesn't mean that. That doesn't mean we can't grow both on an individual level and together through unconditional love. But there's definitely been challenging points where I've had to recognise within myself that I have to do my own inner work here and practice the unconditional love for the other person. And the times that I've found challenging are the decisions around making joint decisions. I feel like when I'm with. With my partner, if she invites me to go to places or to do certain things, and maybe I wouldn't if I was alone, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say yes to these things because I know that I wouldn't want to hang out with these people or I wouldn't want to go to these places. But noticing, okay, I'm making a decision together, I'm going to recognize that we are supporting each other. It's a challenging thing. Do you have advice for those people? The people who are awakening now and they're noticing that their partner is still on their own path, but on a different point along that journey and then working together in a cohesive manner through decision making?

Yeah, man.

Don't know if you're going through the same thing.

No, I think it's. Yeah, I get where you're coming from. Yeah, I think it's. It's. And it doesn't have to be just like. That doesn't. It's not exclusive to that situation where, you know, one person is, you know, having this more spiritual view of the world and one person's not. It's. It could be any difference. Like there could be any. Like one person could change, the other person doesn't change in that aspect of their life. That creates a gap of. When you come to a decision, one person has one point of view, the other person has the other. For me, for me, the points of view don't matter. It's. Can you accept the other point, person's point of view? It's only when you resist the change and resist their opinion and their point of view that it creates trouble. Yeah, there's other two decisions. If you find that the change is too drastic and you just find yourself and you say, no, I can't accept that person. Now this change has been. This changes too much and I can see that they're not changing, Then is there a point where you eventually call it off? Is that. I mean, that's something you need to come to on your own. If you say I've changed, but I can still accept the person they are. They still accept me. Then I don't see the issue. Yeah, the only issue is then when you come to a decision, can you compromise? Can you come to a compromise where you say, this is who I am, and I'm not willing to. I'm not willing to compromise on this occasion, but I am willing to compromise on another occasion? It's. It's. Yeah, it's. It's given. It's like. It's that. It's that give and take in a relationship. You need to. You need to be, you don't. You need to be not rigid in your opinion. You can't. You can't be flexible because at the end of the day, you're a team. Like, you're. It's a partnership. So you need to be able to do things that they want to do and sacrifice your own, Your own, Your own ego or your own, your own opinion in that situation, and then they can do the same. It's mutual. Yeah, I, it's, it's difficult, but I think there's, there's, there's. There's times where you can stick to your guns, and then there's times where you can say, no, this time I'm going to let it go, and I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna go ahead with it. The, the, the most important thing I think with that is that once, whatever decision you choose, you then wholeheartedly go with that decision.

Yeah.

So in the example where you've given in to what your partner wants to do and you. Yeah, that's.

Oh, you've compromised.

Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Giving in is probably a bad term. Yeah. Compromise is a better term. So you've compromised. You say, yes, that's fine, we're gonna do this, because I know you want to do it, then you don't go and resist the whole time. If it's an action or if it's an event or if it's. Whatever you do, you do it wholeheartedly. That, to me, is the most important part. And if you don't do it, then you do that wholeheartedly and you don't wish you were there and you don't go, oh, I should have made the other decision, because that is. Yeah, it's. That once again creates resistance. And if you're finding that you're going to these events over and over again and you're constantly resisting being there, then it's a sign that you've. I don't know, that you've probably made an incorrect decision or that you're, you're resisting for. Yeah, maybe, maybe the wrong reasons.

I think that's when communication comes into it. I've also realized since, since I've been with my partner now for like it's a couple of years was how important communicating correctly is in those situations. For me, it was important. Recognizing how the other person feels, being compassionate and not just coming at it from. This is how I feel, which is why I don't want to do it. It's recognizing, yeah, I want to come because I want to support you 100% or I believe in what you're doing. But on this occasion, I don't feel comfortable doing this. Never blaming the other person for you feeling a certain way. I think that's, that's one thing I'm always, I've learned and I'm like continuing to learn.

Yep. That makes it that, that's, that's the, that's the realization that every decision you make is always your decision. Yeah, like, you know, like people, people like, ah, they made me come here or like they made me do this or I don't want to be here because this person dragged me along. Always your choice. It's your choice to act and it's your choice not to act. Non action is still a choice. If you can change your perspective to go, wait, I chose to be here. No one forced me to come along. You choose to go to work every morning. If you're in a job you don't like, you're still choosing to go. You could wake up and not go. That's a choice. But you wake up and go because you chose to, not because your employer forced you. If you can put responsibility back into your own hands, it's so powerful because then everything is back within your control. The issue is when you. Is when you contemplate on what other people think too much and that then it's funny because you contemplate on what people think that impacts your decision and then you blame them for making that decision. It's a funny situation.

Yeah, man.

So if you can bring that, if you can bring that awareness to everything is a choice and everything is my choice, then if you choose to go somewhere, you can be there because you chose to be there. It's never anyone else's fault. So it's a great realization to have.

Taking full ownership, man. Full ownership, yeah. Thank you for sharing. That was nice. One thing that I've recognized that I think a lot of people challenged have faced challenges with in Relationships because we're still pretty young in our.

Yeah, I'm not an expert.

Yeah, we're not experts. It's just this is what's worked for us, I guess. This is not to say that this is how you have the perfect relationship. I want people to recognize, recognize that it's about finding your own inner truth. For.

Yeah, for me it's about. It's a bit. It's about encouraging mindful relationships. It's about. It's about. Yeah, yeah, it's about. Yeah, I suppose you're right. This is what's worked for me and how I've found the most peace and happiness. Not just in, not just in, in. Yeah. Physical relationships with your partner, but with friendships, with family, with people on the street. Like it's, it's. If you can bring it from being an image based relationship and an external based relationship, your whole world opens up. You're no longer fearful or desiring anything else to happen the way. Apart from the way it is happening, then all of your relationships fall into place seamlessly. They're just, they're just there and they're just happening exactly the way they should be. That to me is what has worked for me to make happier, more peaceful relationships. And if you can have more happy, peaceful relationships, your life with more peaceful happiness. Because you're in your. You have hundreds of relationships a day.

Yeah.

You know. Yeah. Constantly you're interacting with people. Yeah.

It is essential to master relationships. Whether you can master them or not. It definitely makes your life a lot more harmonious. One thing that I want to touch on is younger people. We're 24. People who are listening, who are, you know, within that age bracket 18 to 24. Relationships are very challenging. There's lots of difficult decision making to be had because that's when we're going through a lot of life transitions. From high school to university to full time work, to travel. A lot of difficult transitions that bring tests to relationships. Particularly if we're at different ages. Say your partner's two years younger than you, three years younger than you, you're 23, your partner's 20, going through a very different life transition or different challenges in life which can be difficult at a young age. Like for. For me, for example, I met my girlfriend Amanda while studying here in Canada. We had to do six months of long distance, which was a difficult challenge. Ultimately, probably one of the greatest tests that proved the depth in our relationship because it was abstinence from being in physical contact with each other. But also I realised a lot around. When I'm not with her, how am I coping? Am I not feeling my. Fulfilled? Because when you're not around someone, you should still be able to feel whole and loved. It was one of the greatest challenges, but also one of the greatest strengthening exercises for our relationship was being apart for so long.

I went through the same thing in my. My first relationship. Six months apart.

Yeah.

And I. And I realized. Yeah, I. It was, it was helpful, but for different reasons because I realized how much I was. How much I was lacking as a. What was I, 20 year old. Yeah. At the time. Requiring that love to feel whole. And I was in. I was. I mean, I was in tears, man. Like, I was in tears, like on the week, on, like on a weekly basis.

Yeah.

I just felt so empty. I was like, why do I feel this way? Like, yeah, I was like, like, why. Why is this.

Yeah.

Why is this one thing in my life having this much of an effect on me when really I. I could have been there wholeheartedly on my own. She could have been there whole, wholeheartedly on her own. And then when you come back together, it's just a reuniting of two whole people. But instead I just felt this constant lack, man. And I was miserable. I was actually miserable. It's funny, that to me was a trigger of far out. There has to be a better way than this.

Yeah, I think. And that's what I wanted to kind of say was. That is a really great test. I feel if someone's. I guess it doesn't matter what age you're in, but at a young age, can you be okay with being away from your partner for an extended period? A month, two months? How does that thought feel? If that absolutely scares you and it's something that you feel like you could not do, then perhaps, maybe there is some element of attachment to your partner and fulfilling a hole that's within. So that's something. As a young couple, young couples evolving together, recognizing that fact that there are going to be challenges that arise that you can use as tests to look within and see. Is this something that I need to work through myself? Allowing the other person, giving them their space to work on their own stuff as well.

To me, it's literally just. It's complete respect for an individual to be exactly as they are and who they are as a person. Because if you allow someone like you say, the space to be who they are, they. They flourish, man. They just become. They reach their full potential. They have no limitations. There's no one telling them there's no one there telling them who they should be, what they should do. They have freedom to go and achieve and act however they need to. And if you give someone that opportunity and they give you that opportunity, man, how awesome, how awesome does that feel?

It's beautiful. I think it's something that we can all aspire. It should be something that we should all aspire to be in a relationship like that. It shouldn't have to take a lifetime to get it either.

To me, I think if there's anything to take away, it's, you have to learn how to be alone. You have to learn how to be alone. And it's Blaise Pascal, man. All man's problems come from the fact that they can't sit alone in a room by himself. And I genuinely believe that if you can learn to be comfortable with your own mind, you know, then everything is limitless, everything falls into place. Relationships is one aspect of that, but that has far reaching components outside of relationships as well.

Breaking through the, sometimes cutting through the mind to get to the deeper part of the relationship where the soul, connecting with the soul, getting to that point where you can connect, connect on a deep, deep level with someone, not just on a physical level.

And that, that's actually a good, that's a good, another good kind of indicator. Can you sit alone in silence with your partner? This was always, and this, you know, this was actually always after I, after my first relationship. That was my one test. Yeah, that was always my, that was always my test. I was like, can I do I feel comfortable? And do they feel comfortable to sit in silence with each other doing nothing, just sitting there? And I found a lot of people that like along the way I found a lot of people that I was like, yeah, I think I do. And I found other people. I was like, no, this, there's, there's a tension here. Like when it's, when it's quiet and the mind is working, you know, you sit quiet, quiet with someone, you go, oh God, I should be saying something.

Yeah.

Oh, this is getting awkward. Oh, what am I. There's no, there's no need to feel that way. If it's just two people doing what they want to do and if they want to sit in silence, then that's okay. Yeah.

Yeah, man. Great, great point. Great point. There was something I was going to bring up. Ah, yeah. Came to young relationships. Another big thing that's happening is the decision on when to move in with your partner, when to live together. I have recently, not recently actually, probably the Past year, I've been living together with my partner in either my family home or her family home, which has added an extra element to the challenges, But I won't go into detail about that. But the act of living with your partner and deciding to move into a shared corner borders where you share a space is, for me, the ultimate test. And it's something I see a lot of people delay and saying, oh, I'm not ready. I don't want to rush into that. Yes and no. I also think, why would you want to delay the test? It's almost like people don't want to face this ultimate test because they're scared that they might fail the relationship, might fail the test. When I jumped into this test with my partner, which kind of came out of nowhere because she was living in Australia with me, and it was something that. Not forced into, but something that came a lot quicker than expected. I was only 23 at the time, but going through that test proved to me that this relationship was built on solid foundations. Because being alone, being together, and being okay with being alone is you kind of. If you can't be okay in silence, sitting together when you live together, then it's gonna be. Yeah, you're gonna be completely unfulfilled. Yeah, it's gonna be a struggle. I personally think people should take this test as soon as they can. As soon as they feel like the relationship is ready to take on, evolve to that next level, move in together, because you'll find out pretty damn quick.

I suppose the only issue is if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

Yeah.

That's what you're saying. People are fearful.

Yeah. But if you're okay, if you're com. Maybe it's time that they. Either you need to go off and do your own soul searching and figure some stuff out for yourself, or the other person might need to. You figure it out fast either way. Or you might be at a place where you can work through things together, which is what happened with me. Like, it wasn't easy, but there's. Certainly we work through it together because we're both at an individual place where. Where we're comfortable facing these challenges together. What's your take on that? You don't live with your partner yet, but do you think it's something that. It is a very big step. It's something that people struggle with a lot.

I think for me personally, I think I was. Because I was on my own for quite a while, and I was so comfortable on my own. And at the Time when I met Meg, it was quite sudden and I was like, it took me a while to adjust. I think it took me a while to adjust to having someone else in my life that I cared about. But it was good. I got to put into practice all the things that I'd been learning and all the, all of the kind of the mindfulness things that I practice on a daily basis with someone else. It was a good challenge. But for me, once I'd accepted, I was like, yeah, this person is now someone that I love and someone I care about. It went really quick because there was no. As soon as I got rid of the fear of, oh shit, I'm in a relationship now, and all the things that come along with that, that you think about, as soon as I got rid of the fear, I could have moved in straight away. Yeah, I think it's the fear that holds you back. But once I. Yeah, for me it was like a no brainer. Yeah. Because I think honestly it's because I waited so long. The person that came along was exactly the person that I needed. So there was no hesitation. It wasn't like I, I was like, yeah, you'll do. And this is now, now. Because then that's, that's when there's fear. It's like, have I made, have I, have I taken enough things into consideration? And what. The funny thing about any decision making is that the, the, the variance or the things that could go into one decision, any decision are insurmountable. There's an impossible amount of data that you could take into making one decision. But at the end of the day, the decision is made in one moment. So for me, if you can eliminate the amount of processing that you have to go through, because the more things you mull over, the more things you think about it gives, it gives fear a chance to come in. It's constant worrying about the future. But if you can cut that out and go, just trust your instincts, really say, I've made this, I'm with this, I'm with this person because I've made that decision and I'm making that decision every minute of the day to stay with them for a reason. For me, after I'd, after I'd realized that and after I cut out the fear, now I can move into a tomorrow, man. Yeah, no, no issue. And I'm sure that will be a test. Yeah, I'm sure it will be.

And maybe we can do another podcast.

I'll give you an update and let you know how I'm going.

The Live updates, man. Weekly updates. Yeah. So I guess for people that's something that I guess someone has to make on their own merit when they're ready to take. Take that test and good advice. I think if you're, if you feel like you love someone, you're ready to pursue a future with them, then you're instincts will tell you the time has come. But if you, if you, if you're worried or you're thinking about it too much. Yeah, maybe it's a sign. Just meditate on it. Cut through that noise for a second and then feel, feel the emotion. Is it time to act on this?

As you always say, the body, man, the body's, the body's the truth. If you can, if you can focus on how the body feels whilst you're, whilst you're dwelling on that decision, it'll tell you if it's. If it's ready or not. Like get rid of the mind. The mind. The mind often clutters up the decision. It's the instinct, it's the, it's the core feeling of is this a good decision or is it, is it, is it something I should wait on?

Well, the thing is, there's never a bad decision.

Well said.

It's always an opportunity to grow, even if it results in a loss or a breakup. That's again, another opportunity for you to grow on yourself, work on yourself. Yourself.

You know, that's, that's just, that's, that's, that's just a lesson for life. If you can, if you can find it, if you can find opportunity to grow in every, every suffer, suffering or painful situation that you have, man, you're gonna kill it.

Well said. One. One other point I'll add is the value that I got from working with a coach. I had a. Worked with Jennifer Merrifield, who's been on the podcast, I think it was episode. So it's 15. And Jen was someone that I worked with for a few months and she was amazing at helping me bring my awareness to certain elements in my relationship where I wasn't. Perhaps acknowledging the opportunities to grow in that moment and to have someone that keeps you accountable, but not telling you what you want to hear, but giving you the space to sit where there are opportunities to grow because there always is, has tremendous value. Again, if you can find a coach, even if it's a mentor or someone who can just. You can talk about these sort of things. If you're going through a difficult, challenging period in a relationship or in life, talk to someone about it and they might help you see a different light to perceive challenge. You might see the opportunity to grow. So I'm very grateful for Jen for helping me through some challenging times in life and my relationship. So I encourage people. Jen, I'll link her page. People can connect with her online. But if you. If you want to find someone locally, either way, that tremendous value. So I want to bring. Jen, just bring that up. I mean, mate, we might have to wrap things up here because I'm getting pretty hungry. All this talk about relationships, man, works up an appetite. But yeah, it's your last day, man. Last day in Toronto. You head back to Sydney tonight.

Yeah, 16 hour flight, mate. Yeah. Should be a bit of fun.

It's been a pleasure having you here, man. I'm glad we got to record a podcast in person. I'm sure we're gonna. We'll connect in person again shortly. Any closing remarks for our listeners, mate?

I think we've covered a fair bit. I think. Yeah, man. Acceptance is the key. Acceptance is the key.

I love that.

If there's. Yeah. Relationship or not, if you can accept the current moment for what it is, your life flows, man. Your life flows with effortless ease. The only other caveat to that is, is that trying to accept is also non. Acceptance. It's acceptance. It's a bit of a paradox. It's that you need to have acceptance for the moment, but also acceptance of the fact you can't accept. Sometimes, sometimes you'll try to accept the moment as it is and your mind will fight back and you go, no, that's not right. I can't accept this. And you also have to be accepting of that feeling because, yeah, it's the same thing. It's exactly the same thing. To me, that's one of my biggest keys, man.

Yeah, well said, man. And for the people who are listening, it might not even be in a relationship. I think we all are in a relationship with ourselves at all times. It's like monitoring that relationship. How is. How do you function with your own mind? How do you cooperate with the ego, have a harmonious relationship with yourself, and then you're gonna attract the people who.

And I suppose the other important point which we've covered in this podcast before is who are you? When you say relationship with yourself, who is the self? Do you identify with your thoughts? Because if you do, that can be quite dangerous because your thoughts are, quite frankly, mental. Like we both said before, man, the things that run through our minds often are crazy. And if you. If you identify with them, you You. Yeah, it can be quite dangerous at times. And if you're, if you're one of those people that has a lot of negative self talk or. Yeah, you believe and you trust in the thoughts running through your head. Just think about who is talking in that negative self talk. Who's the one saying and who's the one listening. Yeah. Because you can't be the object and the perceiver at the same time. You, your true self is the listener, not the talker. But I think too often people identify with the talker in their mind and that's the one that has all the negativity associated with it. The listeners, the quiet observer, non judgmental. And if you can realize that that's who you truly are with all this noise on top of it, everything works out, man.

Yeah, man, well said. There's the purposeful action that I want people to take away from this is can you keep the observer with you? Can you hold the observer in mind in these times when you may be engaging in conflict with the partner? Just watch. Keep an element of witnessing consciousness there that sees the argument unfolding and you be able to, you'll be able to see it for what it is. Just, just mental noise. So, yeah, thanks for sharing that, man.

No worries, man. It's been a pleasure being here.

Thank you, mate. It's been so grateful to have you here, mate. Love chatting with you and have safe flight home.

Pleasure, man. Thank you.

Take care, buddy. Bye for now, guys. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of the podcast. It really means a lot to me knowing that you're choosing this type of content and you're, you know, if there's one thing I can leave you with as you take off for the rest of your day is two calls of actions for you. One of the calls of action that I've been trying to do recently every single day is do one act of kindness. I mean, if you can do more than one act, that's perfect. But start with one. Try and just do something kind for someone else. Pay for someone's coffee ahead of you or just open the door for someone. Hold the door open for someone when they're walking by. These little acts of kindness can really go a long way and it actually improves the way you feel and also improves the way someone else feels. And that kind of stems on throughout the day. So try and do that. Find something kind to do for someone else. Here's one opportunity for you to do some act of kindness is go ahead and leave some feedback on the podcast on itunes, leave a rating or review, or if you're feeling extra special, share this with someone else to try and help someone else out on their journey. And that will mean a lot for me. It'll mean a lot for other people, and it's going to mean a lot for you because the more acts of kindness we do, we spread the love. So thank you so much for joining me and I'll see you in the next episode.