SSP 047: Michael Spivak - The Mindfulness Journey: Does age really matter?

What's up, guys? Welcome back to the podcast. This is Jordan Kanlish here, and if it's your first time joining me, welcome to the Stage Shifters podcast. Really, this podcast is about uncovering ways that we can start to shift our internal state. Because really the quality of our lives is determined by the quality of our decisions. And one of the first things that impact our decision making is our state. Now, for a lot of us, we're in a fearful state right now. You know, there's a lot of uncertainty around what's going on in the global landscape. And you know, I've been reflecting a lot on what's going down right now with the coronavirus. And a lot of people see the coronavirus as the issue, but I actually see the, the larger issue of the economic fallout that's about to come from this. And you know, my mind likes to create all these fearful stories around how things are going to go, how things are going to fall apart and all, all the danger and the potential hardship that's about to come for a lot of people. But when I'm in a fearful state, I know I'm not as effective to myself, to my family, to my friends, to my community. Because when decisions are made out of fear, it just attracts more scenarios that don't support our growth, that don't support our expansion. So State Shifters is all about getting yourself into an empowered state of being. And one of the most effective ways of doing that is through asking the right questions. So if you're listening to this and you've gone through some fear around what's coming up, or maybe you are in a bit of fear right now, maybe you've been affected by the coronavirus situation and losing a job, or you're afraid of losing your job, know that staying in a fearful state is not going to serve you. So start asking some questions about what opportunities are being presented to me to discover a deeper part of myself. What are some new skills that I can learn now that I'm at home and I can't go to work. How can I start to serve and connect with people in a new way now that I can't go to work? Like, start asking empowering questions and it's going to shift you out of a fearful state into a more of an empowered state of being. So before we dive into today's episode, I just wanted to tell you that here in Perth, I'm eight days into my self isolation quarantine and I'm learning a lot, like a lot of my focus has been around, okay, how can I build routines and systems around my isolation period so that I'm still effective, so that I still feel like I'm accomplished at the end of the day, so I still feel successful. And the things that have been working for me so far has been having consistent eating times. So at the moment, I've been fasting every day. I've been having my first meal around 3 o' clock and I'll train around 1 o', clock, so I skip breakfast. I'll usually have a coffee. And I'm finding that to be really effective for me. The other thing that's working a lot for me is I'm doing a lot of meditation, a lot of time in nature. So since, you know, the last time I released a podcast, I've had some really intense lessons come through, and one of them was losing a close friend of mine, Nathan d'. Abreu. I just wanted to dedicate this to him and dedicate a large part of the inspiration that I'm having to continue to share content, because he had a big impact on my life. And death has showed up for me in a really powerful way over the last couple of weeks to reflect on what this will mean to me and how I can learn from the lessons Nath left behind for me. And it's really allowed me to slow down. It's really forced me to slow down in a way. So I've been spending a lot more time in nature. And, yeah, I'm ready to start to put more content out to the world that really serves people in a way that I feel like people really need right now, because we're all being faced with a fear of death. You know, that's the. That's the root of all fear. And I sort of feel like I've experienced the worst case scenario really, is losing a close friend. So, yeah, I'm trying to process and put out my lessons from all this. So in this podcast, I've brought on a good friend from Toronto. His name is Mike Spivak. And Mike is. He's really doing some really powerful work. You know, he's such a. He's such a wise young man, 20 years of age. And when I connected with him, I just was really vibing off the level of depth that he's gone into his own level of healing and his personal development journey. So there's so much, so much we can learn from people older than us, but also people younger than us. And that's why I always keep an open mind and I'm always eager to learn from people at different ages because there's something unique we can get. So Mike is. Mike and I have had a conversation. He's in Toronto, obviously, I'm here in Perth. So take note, guys. There's some valuable nuggets of wisdom in here. And thank you so much again for joining me on these episodes. It just really means a lot knowing that you guys are tuning in and, and the content I'm putting out is bringing value. So if it is bringing value, please subscribe and leave a rating or review on itunes. That would mean a lot. So enjoy the episode.

Welcome to the State Shifters podcast, a show dedicated to helping you discover your true potential through connecting the mind, body and soul.

Mikey, mate, welcome to the podcast. How are you, my friend?

Good, man, good. How are you?

Good, good, yeah, it's been an interesting couple of weeks for me, man, and an interesting couple of weeks for everyone, I feel. And at the time of this recording, we're kind of in the thick of the coronavirus situation. Things have really escalated quickly for everyone. So you're in Toronto right now? I'm back in Perth. And Toronto's full blown lockdown, like, everyone's housebound. How are you coping with that? How are things?

Things are going well, man. To be honest, I just been quarantined for the last two weeks. I tried going downtown, actually, it was funny. And I went to King street and it was so Zombieland. I have never seen something like this before. Yeah, I was laughing, I was like, oh my God. And then today I tried going to the grocery store and there's a lineup outside waiting for food. And I started just right away. I don't know what it is, but I keep getting so much lessons and meetings from like every experience that's happening in front of me. So, like example, me going to the grocery store and seeing everyone lining up, like, this is survival mode. This is what I see. People are entering survivor mode. People are running away from the fear instead of diving into it. So this is what comes, this is what happens.

Have you found the reaction of people in Canada, mate? Like, what's been the reaction? Because obviously I'm here in Australia, people were a little bit slower in terms of the severity of the lockdown. But how are people responding to that? Because I see a lot of people just freaking out, going into full fear mode, like you said.

Yeah, exactly. Some people are, you know, there's people who are blocking away. Yeah, you know, everything's good, everything's going away. Two, three weeks, you know, we're Gucci out Here, some people are like that and some people are actually panicking. Some people are really, really afraid of what's going to happen, especially the elderly ones. I can say for my mom, right? Like, she's pretty, pretty scared about it, right? She's like 58. My dad's 62. So they're kind of like panicking around. It definitely depends on the age or so. But, you know, you got your people who act like nothing's happening, then you got your people who are freaking out, so.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Balance, mate. I'm excited to dive into this conversation with you because we spent some quality time together while I was in Toronto and we're both going through a lot of growth and we still are. And I really acknowledged and was impressed by how much work you've done in yourself at such a young age. And I've noticed along my journey, it's extremely valuable to get different people's perspectives, especially people who are older or younger than you. And I really admired being around you because you are so much younger than me and had so much wisdom already. You were able to deliver a perspective that a lot of other people don't have. So you probably are the youngest guest I've had on the podcast, which is exciting. And, mate, why don't you kind of give people a bit of background around how your personal development journey first began? Because you're only 20 years old. Yeah. Is that right?

Yeah, 20. Just turned 20. November.

Yeah. Unpack this for me.

Okay. So basically When I was 18, turning 19, I was working at my family store, Revita Size. We sell like vegan cold pressed juice, acai bowls, smoothies, all that fun stuff. And I was working and I've been in contact with this guy named Adam for a long time. And I kept seeing him every morning. And every morning he would come into the store at 7:30am because we would open up at 7. I would make him his shake right away, ready to go. I was so happy to see him. His energy was so alive and I felt it. But at the time, I didn't know why I felt it. I didn't know why he was my motivation to come into the store because I did not want to come. And even though it's my family business, it was just, it was hard for me because there was a lot of factors into it. So I kept seeing it. I kept seeing it and I actually get an argument with one of my close relatives and he was there watching it. And I'm in an argument at the store behind the cashier and he's just there watching it. Like we're on a full blown argument. And after the argument goes away, she goes away, he comes to me, he's like, hey man, you know, do you want to fix that relationship with your close relative? I'm like, yeah, of course I do. Like I want to. I don't know why I keep getting angry. Like, why does this keep happening to me and I can't control it. It just, the anger comes or the sadness comes and I either shrink or I explode and it's just what do I do? He's like, come on this workshop for Chicago. He's like, it's next week, it's kind of last minute and come do it. I'm like, okay. Like I have like 10, 10 grand to my name. I'm 8 to 19 years old. The program costed 1500 plus flight. It was USD. It ended up being 2 grand. I'm like, fuck it, let's do it. I booked it right on the spot without telling anyone else going on. I'm like, I'm coming, let's do this. I thought it was just like, you know, help me get rich here, one of those. I go to the workshop and we start breathing. And it's funny, we, we start off the workshop with a check in group and everyone's checking in. Okay, how are you feeling? What are your intentions with coming into this workshop? Right, just checking in with your presence right now, I guess. And then a couple hours later we started breathing. And I'm laughing. Like everyone here is 30, 40, 50, like older. And I'm 18, 19 coming in and the people who run the group, they're telling everyone, oh, this guy's 18, 19. Everyone's like laughing. I'm like, yeah, fuck it, I'm here. So we start breathing And I was, okay, this is interesting. Like breathing, like what's breathing? We started diving deeper into it, diving deeper into it. And then the workshop ended up, we started doing facilitations and then once I started getting facilitated, I really, it opened up my whole life. I just let go of so much emotional blockages. I've had so much love that I was holding inside of me so many insecurities, so much things that was locking down my self esteem and it all stemmed from my childhood and that first workshop. And this is all just three days. And then after that it was just boom. My consciousness just like, just exploded like like never before. And I was young at the time, so like I still am young, but I didn't know what was going on. With me, I had to really, like, take a full week off after the workshop and really just like, sit with it and understand. Like, what did I just do? I just went through an intense healing for three days. Breathing facilitations, checking in, opening up, just like in a safe, secure circle and like in a container that you can just explode whatever you want. And oh my God, ever since then, it's like I rebirthed. Basically the rebirthing process. Yeah, basically that. But just an intense three days. And it was so emotionally drained after the three days. Days. It was. I will never forget it, honestly. It's like I don't really remember who I was before the workshop because I've changed so much after that workshop. After I started the spiritual journey, I really started connecting with my soul. And yeah, it was. It was definitely a long, long ride. But here I am two years later, powerful.

Yeah. I just again, I want to acknowledge the courage to go, yeah, you know what? Fuck it. I'm gonna go, you know, two grand. Like a lot of people, that's their first block when it comes to discovering a deeper part of themselves. They're either too afraid to get uncomfortable, too afraid to make an investment in themselves. And you just was like, no question. Like, I'm, I'm curious, like, where did that come from? Was that just something you were like, yep. You know, you just knew in your heart that this was something you needed to be at or you needed to do.

Yeah, like. Like I said, like when I was working in the store and I would make smoothies for the guy who told me and brought me on this workshop and now is my mentor and stuff. But, like, I felt his energy and he's like, he's the reason why I woke up every morning and went to my job at 7am and worked seven to three. And it was just for that five minute conversation with him. And that energy was just like. And then when he told me about it, I was like, okay, like, you're doing something right. I feel your energy is right. Something's energy's not right inside of me. Let me come to, like, let me do what you're doing. And like, I knew about Tony Robbins before this and stuff, and I just, I'm honestly, since I was a little kid, I've always wanted to try something new. I've always loved trying new things that I've never tried before. I was a very courageous kid. I guess if that's how you say it. Right.

I just admire that, brother. Really. Do you? So, yeah, I want to go into. Because it was a specific modality of breath work that you guys practice. Right. But the. The underlying premise was the same. It was giving someone a safe container to go in to explore emotions, emotional blocks, traumas that perhaps some of these older men were carrying around in their lives for so long. And it was a container to allow people to go in and explore that, feel it, release it through the power of the breath and through sharing and being open and vulnerable with the circle. Is that right?

Yes. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Right. What was the. What was this type of breath work you guys were doing? Because I know there's a lot of forms out there.

Okay. So we did a couple of different types of breath work, but we definitely did lying down. We did some. A little bit of Wim Hof. We did a lot of different types of breathwork, but we did a little bit of Wim Hof. We. But we did the. I don't know if it's called this, but it was basically meeting death. I don't know what kind of breath work that's called, but it was the fear of death and.

Yeah. Sort of like shamanic breath rituals where. Yeah, I'm familiar with those. Yeah. I don't think I've tried too many, but. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Run us through it. What was that like? What was that experience like?

So basically, it was like everyone, like, all the participants, including me, I was. We were lying down. You go, you put on a blindfold, and they have their own playlist. It's very powerful music.

So it's like.

And then they read us like a. They, like, read to you. They. They say, like, as you're going through this phase, you feel the tingling in your body. Right. They're guiding you through the process. And the music that they use was like. They would make me match my breath to the music. And I just. And you're. And you're breathing through your stomach, right? So they're, like, teaching you how to breathe through your stomach. Because normally a lot of us, we breathe through our chest. Right?

Yeah.

But the key is really to breathe into your stomach and don't stop breathing. Right. And your throat might get dry, your hands might get tingly, or you might feel some shivers, you might start sweating. But, like, they kept saying, keep going, keep breathing. Don't stop breathing. You just keep breathing. And I know this now, and I use these techniques for when I host my own breathwork sessions. It's funny, but, yeah, we just kept breathing. And I thought it was like, okay, how long was it? 20 minutes. And, like, no, you've been breathing for like two hours now. Wow. Amazing. And you just don't stop breathing and then you start crying and you start letting out my. I literally let out my guts. And you hear everyone, there's like 11 or 15 participants, and you just hear everyone letting it out and screaming. And, you know, it's like when you breathe in, you go and then you let go. You know, you really let it go with a sound. And when you let it go with a sound, it's. It's different. It's very different. And you keep going deeper and deeper. And then I started going back to when I was a childhood and the traumatic experiences that. That stopped me from being who I am, I guess, today. And I just. I let go of everything through the breath. And they just kept guiding you through with this music beat playlist. It was amazing. Actually, I use the same playlist now.

Dude, powerful experience, man. I know. Just reflecting back on when I had my first breath work experience when I was in Toronto at Mindset Brain Gym, where I was working with those guys for a while. And I remember Wim Hof was the first form of breath work that I experienced. And I remember being just in a state of shock at how deep and powerful and transformative it was. And I remember, like, the minute I first tried, I was like, damn, this is. This, this is. This has some power. This is. This is a really powerful tool. And yeah, and you keep. When you keep unraveling the layers, I feel breathwork gives you the ability to go beyond some of the surface of what keeps people from accessing some of these deeper emotional blocks that are stuck in the body. Ultimately, how would you describe what breath work does compared to a regular meditation? Meaning, like, how does it allow people to get in there and just release some of these things we carry around for so long?

Oh, yeah, definitely. I feel like meditation, a lot of people do. It's more like in the head. When you do breath work, you're almost like it's inevitable. You're going into your body. When you're doing breath work, you're going into your body, especially if you're telling the person to breathe in through his mouth and then let go and then into his stomach. Like he's. He's going into his body. And the only thing that's going to stop you is your mind, whatever the distractions, the noise, what's going on from stopping from breathing. But when you go so deep into the breathwork, you. It's so different. Your body starts shaking. Your. Your whole body starts Awakening, and you start feeling maybe painful points in your lower back or your. Your traps or your stomach or your heart. And then wherever that pain is, you breathe into that pain. And when you breathe into that pain, it's like, flourishing it out. So, like, breath work is probably the most powerful thing I've ever, ever encountered in my life. More than weed. I haven't done a lot of psychedelics. I want to. I want to do shrooms. But breath work is definitely up there, and it's really, really powerful. And actually, I wanted. I went on the workshop. I was, like, staffing on the workshop. It was in January, and I did breath work. And it was the first time I really dove into breath work where I really started tripping out. And what I mean by tripping out is my whole body was tingling. Like, it was so weird that I almost felt like I was creating an energy ball in these hands right here, and I could, like, give it to people. And it was just like, it felt. I felt energy flowing through my body. And this was after, like, three hours of doing breath work, which I've never done before. Usually there for like an hour or something, two hours, but I really dove deep into this one. And a little use of weed to breathe, it really helps you open up more. Yeah, it's. It was powerful, man.

So, brother, I. I've never done breath work for that long of time. Like, I've done, like, 45 minutes to an hour. Like, you're saying you've done up to like, two hours, three hours? Like, what are you saying? The more. The longer you do it, the kind of deeper, the more powerful the release.

Yeah, yeah. Literally, you can. And I. Someone on this workshop, he's like 50 or something, and he's been doing spirituality practices for almost like, 30 years already. Yeah, 30 years. When he was 20. He's like, 50 something. Yeah, 30 years. And this guy can breathe all day long. He's told me he's done breathwork for, like, four or five hours. Like, he's breathed for so long at a time, and my. Okay, like, no way I could do this. So I went into a dove into. And once you're in the breath and you're lying down with a blindfold, you have the music going on, and you're in a safe container. You don't have to worry about distractions. You can fully enter the breath. It's. You lose track of time. I thought it was there for an hour. The guy told me. He's like, yeah, you were down for like, two and a half Hours. Like three hours. Like you're joking.

Yeah. So for people, I guess, who are listening to this and thinking, damn, I gotta try this breathwork stuff, you know, it's something that, you know, people discover at different stages in their journey. But for people who are listening to this kind of podcast, I clearly had a point in their journey where they're looking to better themselves. They're looking to remove emotional blocks. They're looking to evolve their consciousness. And like we've said, breathwork is such a, you know, such a relevant tool for that, because, like you said, gets you into your body, gets you aware of where it is you might be holding on to resistance. And a lot of the times we're not aware of it, so we can't give ourselves the space to allow these emotional blocks to move. Because it's just energy. Yeah, just energy stuck in the body. Emotions, which are energy held in different areas. And what's something that's helped you on your journey start to identify where exactly you've been holding these energetic blockages. Or was it something you discovered midway through, say, a breath work experience? Or did you already know going into a breathwork practice is right? Yeah, I'm holding on to something. My intent is to breathe into that area.

You know, I didn't know about any of the energy being trapped in my body. I didn't know why there was pain in my lower back. I didn't know why I had pain in my hip flexors. And I thought it was because I was playing hockey and I wasn't stretching. And that's obviously part of the reason, but it's not the full reason. And once I actually started diving really deep into breath work, and I actually got this book. It's called you'd Can Heal Yourself, and it tells you where the pain is in your body and what you need to do through the breath, what you need to say to yourself, and why is the pain there? What's causing that pain? For me, at the time, it was lower back pain. So I really breathed into it, and I actually found that it was my fear of finances. And I would have never known that if it wasn't for the breath. And I have no clue why the pain was there, but the pain's gone now. You know, me and my posture is fixed up a little bit. Right. But once I really breathed into it and really opened up to it and went really deep into the fear, all I found was love. Then the fear of finances went away. And, you know, finances will come with your passion and what you do. And you know, it's. I had to realize to myself that it's not why I'm here. I'm not here to become rich, not here to make money. I'm not here to prove to you anything. Here to make a change. That's what we're here. God put us on this earth to inspire others to do things for other people. Right. What the soul wants is to contribute.

Right.

And to grow. So we just have to feed the soul.

Yeah. And now is a fascinating time because, you know, I've observed over the last couple of weeks in my personal life that death has showed itself to me in a few different ways. And I believe in coming up for me and during this time because collectively I feel we're all being exposed to our underlying fear that we all carry around, which is the fear of death. And this pandemic and this, this, this situation that we're in is, is, is showing that to people. And our minds instantly jump into this story that protects us from having to feel that we go, fuck that. We gotta, we gotta, we're gonna start hoarding food, we gotta start doing all these ration crazy things. Because underneath this, this fearful mind noise is a feeling that we're too afraid to face right now. I had the horrible news over the weekend that I lost a really close friend of mine. And you know, it really hit home for me how quickly life can be taken away. And he left behind a book for me called Many Lives, Many Masters that I've been reading. And it's been about death, funnily enough. And as I'm reading this, I'm getting a lot of insights into the purpose of the spirit. And the soul, when it occupies physical form. Like you said, you know, the purpose of the spirit is to be here, to help, to serve others, to not to be concerned with gain, not to be concerned with self materialization. But another part that I took from that was patience. Like this, the soul comes here and we have to be patient because we're learning the lessons in our own time, like the lessons that we are receiving in this incarnation. We're receiving the exact lessons at the right time and the soul will move on when it's learned the necessary lessons. And I looked at that and I read that, I was like, clearly my brother, like my soul brother, just, it was his time, he learned his lessons and he soul was ready to move on. And then I looked at what could be my purpose emerging from all this. Like, you know, losing a close friend, facing the collective fear that's going around how can conversation about death maybe start to alleviate some of the fears that are coming up for other people? And I don't know if you've encountered any experiences or what is your perspective on how people can start to maybe go in and face the fears that are coming up for them right now, which are caused by the coronavirus or whatever. Whatever the fear is, Maybe it's finances. I. Underneath all of these, like, stories is like, a root fear. You know, it's like unpacking it, unraveling it, and it's never finances. For me, finances is the story that my mind thinks I'm afraid of, but underneath it all is I'm afraid of failing and afraid of not getting love. So it's actually a fear of not being loved that I'm really afraid of. What would be a perspective that you can share to maybe help someone who's either in the thick of a fear around finances, fear around uncertainty, fear around maybe the death. Maybe they know they're actually afraid of dying because of this flu or this pandemic. What would you. Yeah, what's it? What's an insight? You can share that based on some of your experience?

So basically, I was on a group chat a couple days ago with a couple people who I've been in the spirituality work for a long time, and many of them have been hit by this coronavirus in many different ways. And some of them haven't been hit with the fear of. Some of them have been hit with the fear. And the ones who have been hit with it, they told me how they were dealing with it. I was very curious because I was like, okay, like, I. We're all going through this, and this is all a new experience for us, so let me know how you're doing. And he's like. He's like, look, I was in the stock market. I lost a lot of money, and a lot of panic started coming up inside of me. A lot of fear started coming inside of me. Oh, I'm gonna lose all this. You know, all these stories that your mind is telling you, like you said. And my best suggestion for that is really just diving into the breath, really trying to find out why the panic is coming up. Really finding out why is this fear coming up. Like, ask yourself the question, why? Why is this. Where is it happening inside my body, Right? Touch it, feel it, right? Breathe into it. Understand where it is, understand why it's there, right? And then you just keep asking yourself questions, and you start, like. Like I said, there's an onion, and you Start unraveling layers of the onion until you get to the root. So that's really all you're doing. You're just asking yourself more questions and more questions and allowing your consciousness to grow and your awareness to grow, to re. Understand. Where is that coming from? Why is it coming. Right. So that's. That's the best insight I could really give for that, because there's not much else to really do. You just really gotta dive into it.

I like. I like when you said, where is it coming from? Understanding, like, where and what is coming up? And for me, you know, sometimes I hold fear around my solar plexus area.

There's a.

There's a block there that I sometimes notice. And that. And understanding what that feels like in terms of. Is it a heavy, tight, tense energy?

Like, what?

Describing what the physical sensation is. And this is what I guide my clients through when they're having some of these emotional blocks and they're trying to clear some things out, is identifying, okay, what is the physical sensation? What does it feel like? Maybe it's like you said yours was lower back. Like, what. What does that physical sensation feel like? And then becoming aware of that, and then also becoming aware of, okay, what is the story the mind has created around this physical sensation, around this emotional block? You know, for me, the solar plexus getting really tired, some anxiety creeping. The story that my mind's telling me about that is, oh, we don't have enough money. What if we don't pay for. Pay for rent? Next week, I'm gonna be on the streets. Like, you know, I'm gonna have to call my mom and dad. Like, all these stories that, like, creep up around a feeling. So cutting through the story and just being with the feeling, there is no good or bad. There is no judgment of what it is you're experiencing. So the first step would be, like, cutting through that judgment of the mind, because that's what's keeping it stuck there. It's the mind saying, this is not good. I don't want to feel this. This is bad. And it's like the resistance. Yes, the resistance to that. The feeling that it's keeping the energy there. It's a pattern that we keep playing out over time. Every time we feel this, I think this. I believe the story keeps the emotion stuck. The mind's trying to distract us from feeling. So you're saying the breath gives a gateway into the body, a gateway into the emotions for it to be felt and released.

Mm, fully. And I have this other tool that I Use. It's. It's called the four quarters.

Yeah.

And I actually learned it on the workshop. It's data, thoughts, feelings, and then desire. So there's many ways of looking at this. And actually recently I looked at it from this and my friend taught me this. Is that the data that shows up to your life? So let's say coronavirus, for example, or the data of my mom came to me and she screamed up on my face, you're this, you're that, you're that. Whatever the data, the circumstance.

Yeah, Right.

And then your thoughts around that circumstance. Right. Be aware of what's happening when you're in that circumstance. What were your thoughts? Where was it going? Oh, maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe I don't matter. There's so many different thoughts that can come up. And then what are your feelings through the thoughts? Right. What feelings are coming up? Anger, sad, frustration, and then your desire. And to find your desire, the only way to find it is if you go right through the feeling. So I looked at that and I went data, thoughts, feeling, desire. Okay, 1, 2, 3, 4. What if I flipped it around? The desires, what makes the data appear in your life? So the data only appears in your life because of your desires. And you won't ever find out why if you don't tap into the feeling. And then your thoughts are just around the feeling, trying to, like, you know, I mean, around the circumstance.

Yeah.

So the only way to find desires in life is if you tap into the feeling. So I always say I'm like, the feelings are your superpowers. Like, that's how you're gonna find everything. That's your time, you know, like your iron man.

Yeah.

That's who you are. And really, you know what I mean? It's. It's pretty funny because our desires are just. Are right there. They're sitting, and then we just have clouds and dirt on top of it. It's funny, like Gary V. Says, the clouds and dirt. But the way I reform to it is your desires are at the bottom of like your stomach, I would say. And then you got all these layers on top of it that you're trying to peel off. And it is work. It's really hard. It's not easy. What we're saying is not easy. This is not easy. Right. But it's.

Yeah, it's a commitment. Yeah, it's a commitment to the work, which is what, like makes. Again, like you said, it's the magic. This is the magic of life. Magic of, you know, tapping into Your feelings and emotions, because that's what you're projecting out. Like, that's that you're Adam, your mentor, your friend. You were attracted to his energy. And we're attracted or repulsed by anyone's energetic field. And we can often pick up on that before we even have a conversation with them.

Yes.

The vibration of what someone's putting out is based on what are the underlying emotions they're holding on to or what is the underlying emotion that they're projecting out? Love or fear, one of the two. And you can actually sense when you come across someone who's. Who's dense. The energy field is really dense. You can sense they're carrying a lot of pain. And you can sense when you. Like, you met Adam, when someone's really light, someone's really happy and energetic, and you go, damn, I like their energy. I like being around that person.

Mm.

This is. This is really where you start to play at an emotional level, because the emotions are dictating your future, like you said, because that's the energy you're putting out. Therefore, it's the energy you're gonna get back. When you radiate out abundance, gratitude, joy, happiness, what comes back? Just more of it. So the real work is like, starting within. Right. Most people try and think without. They got to change something out there, so then. Then they'll feel the emotion. So, yeah, this is the powerful shift in perspective. I'm so impressed that you've made so early in your life, brother. So starting a future ahead for you.

Yeah, it's. Look, it might seem like, yeah, I'm young. I'm doing this all. But like, God. God gives everyone choice challenges at certain types of their lives to deal with and to make them who they're supposed to be, to find their purpose. And this is just leading me towards that. But it's. It's definitely a hard thing. It's definitely hard doing this spirituality practice at such a young age. Definitely. With this whole social media society going on. Everyone's very judgmental. Right. Like, it's just. The society is kind of like. It's like wish washy right now.

Yeah.

Especially in area that I live in. Like, you know, when I. When I try to express what I've learned or the spiritual lessons that I learned or their perspective that I see. Like, a lot of people don't maybe understand where I'm coming from. And then sometimes it puts me in a place. I'm like, holy fuck, what am I doing? And then the thoughts are coming up, and then I do my Processes. And then I do the data, the four corners, what I say. But it's hard, man. It's definitely not easy. Especially me. I'm the youngest brother of five brothers in this family. And it's definitely hard your whole life, you know? You know, you people kind of, like, talk down to you. Don't really, like, see you for who you actually are and, like, really going out there and getting the respect that I deserve and that I know. And. Right. Like you said before, it doesn't start out where it starts. Inwards. So I had to respect myself first. I had to see me for who I am first. I had to appreciate myself first. I had to love myself first. So I had to do all of that first. And now I'm really, like, building on top of that. So, like, I broke the foundation. Now I did one brick, and now I'm just brick on brick on brick. Now I'm just rebuilding. But it's tough, man. It's definitely not easy. It's not an easy journey, but I love it. I wouldn't trade anything in the world, honestly.

Yeah, I love it too, man. It's. Again, there's different layers to the experience, and once you get past one teaching, I feel like life will give you a lesson or a teaching, and then once you understand that, then you get given the key to go to the next level in your experience.

Exactly.

Soul's evolution. And again, the reminder that I received over the weekend is tomorrow is not guaranteed. All we have is right now. And for all we know, man, our soul might be experiencing the exact lessons we need to learn today. And tomorrow. We might not be here. And know that might sound a bit scary and a little bit of, you know, a sombering thought for some people, but my friend was on a path like this, man. And I have these conversations with you, and I was having conversations like this with him not even that long ago. And it made me question. It made me question that it can be very easy to get caught up in the future around, okay, yeah, I need to start a business, make money, become this person, become that person. When in reality, this moment right now is all we ever get. If we're running from this moment or if we think there's a future moment better than this one, we've missed the point of life. So my inner intention that's come through me the last few weeks is be more in the moment. Because when you're not in the moment, you miss the opportunities. You miss the parts of you that are trying to be healed. You buy into A limiting story that says some future moment is better than this one. So the more present you are, the more aware you are of your body, the more aware of you are. What's coming up? You mentioned your tools, you mentioned your processes. You know, you've had your breath, work, practice, you have your, that four step process, which I love. Anything else that you kind of live by? You know, again, I also want to talk about the importance of having a mentor because that's something that's really helped me a lot as well. Has there been anything else that come into your world that has supported your inner journey that you would recommend for someone else listening?

I would recommend. Everyone needs a mentor. There's no such thing as like, oh, I'm too good enough. I don't need someone to tell me, like, no, that's just egotistical. It doesn't exist. Tony Robbins, the best of the best. Everyone needs a coach. Everyone needs that outside perspective. It's always good to learn from someone. And look, I always say you can learn from literally anyone. Like you said, like when we met and I was 19, like, who this 19 year old? What am I gonna learn from him? He's fucking like five years younger than me. No, no, no, you can learn from anyone. And I really. And that's how I was raised, like the youngest kid of five boys. You know what I mean? Like, that was the way I was nurtured through a family. I don't listen to you. Very competitive, right? And this is what I gained out of it is that like, you can learn anything from anyone and especially kids. And it made me love kids way more than anything in the world. And I'm amazing with kids because it's just like they're so brilliant, they're so pure, they're so authentic. They're just them. And to see that process of the kids just evolving is just amazing. So, yeah, like back to the point. I believe any, everyone should have a mentor or just have friends that you can go to to ask advice for or just open up to or, hey, can you just listen to me for like five minutes? You know what I mean? Like just anyone to go and talk to and for sure mentors that to get to where you want to be. I fully believe in that. I fully, fully believe in coaches, mentors and everything. I think everyone needs it. I think the best of the best have it. And they coach people under them. It's just, it doesn't stop, right? We're here to inspire and to contribute, and that's a form of Inspiring, Contributing, definitely, bro.

Yeah. I mean, that's where I saw my. My purpose for now stemming from moving into the coaching space, which I get the sense that you're probably. I'm not sure, but I'm sure you're probably gonna be looking to move into more larger facilitations, coaching and that kind of field as well. But it wasn'. You know, I got my first coach that, like you said, you realize the power of someone else showing up for you, to hold space for you so that you can get out whatever it is you're holding on to, so you can process your own stuff, so that parts of you that can be seen that maybe you can't see yourself, you know? And I thought I could do it on my own. I was like, yeah, I got this mouth. I can meditate and do my own breath work. It's hard.

Yeah.

The minute we surrender and go and I want help, I shouldn't have to do it on my own, you know? And when you have a coach or mentor, guide or someone who can support you, you just have breakthrough so much quicker as you experienced in your journeys. And I'm just such a big mentorship and coaching man. And it's been amazing to see. And it's been amazing to see me be able to hold space for others because then that's the most fulfilling thing. When you see someone have a breakthrough, it's like, fuck, that's what it's about. That's what life's about. I feel.

Oh, man. Once I started going on back in these workshops, I used to be a participant. Now I'm staffing and like, I'm in training to become a coach. And it's a whole new experience, man. Holding space for others, just being there with them, like, with them letting go their traumatic experience and oh, my God, it was mind blowing. Honestly, like, like you said, like the lessons you learned, you learned it. Okay. You get the key to the next level. Yes. The key to the next level for me was holding space for others. And. Wow, was that an experience, man. That is. I always preach this. I'm like, what is. What is listening? What is actually listening to someone, right? Not coming to them and hey, hey, Jordan, I need help with this. Oh, this is like not suggesting just being there and holding space for someone. Coming in with an open mind, coming with a new mind, even if it's a person you've been friends with for 10 years and they're coming to you and you want them to trust you, come in with compassion, come in with empathy. Come in with just an open mind to just listen. Because you want someone to listen for you, so why don't you do the same for them? So I think listening is definitely something that a lot of people should first really like, dive into. And actually what is listening?

Very well said. Very well said. Listening without trying to fix anything. That's what as men, we are very, very. You know, we have a lot of tendencies to do that when it comes to relationships as well. With girls, we will try and fix their problem a lot of the time. Yeah, A lot of the times we just want to be heard. We just want to be seen. We just want to be understood. So when a girl or anyone comes to you with a problem and you feel them, you understand them, you go, yeah, I feel you. Yeah. And so it's. So I get that it's okay that you feel that. Hold space for someone to be so they can feel what they're feeling instead of trying to fix it. That's what. That's the first step. It's. It's accepting that this is what you feel, allowing the emotion to move through you, and then the process of letting go. You try to fix things all the time. It keeps. It keeps things stuck. That's not what those people are often stuck in. The fixing mentality. I've got to fix this pain.

And the best way to fix something, just to sit there, hold space, and just be there with them. And that's something I had to learn by actually doing it and going through the process of someone letting go their traumatic experiences. And that was life changing for me. It's over. It was over from then. I'm so empathetic to anyone. It's. I have so much compassion for people in this world because honestly, we're all the same. We're all human. We all go through the same stuff. Everyone has different childhood traumatic experiences. It's just, we gotta be there for one another. We're all the same people. Or one people were united. And once you really start holding space for people, that's how I actually learned. That's how I really understood what it is to actually listen to someone. And the feeling of having like, just you. Right now we're on a podcast, like, you listening to me and I listen to you. It's just. It's a conversation. That's what a conversation is. One listening to another not. Oh, yeah, I agree with that. Or you can do this, like, just like coming back with rebuttals or trying to get your significance over someone. Like, nah, that's not what it's about, man. It's about just loving and connecting and just having a good conversation with someone.

You can feel the depth in a conversation when it goes beneath the mind. And there's two souls that connect or two hearts that connect. There's the conversations that fuel you and there's the conversations that drain you. And that's an invitation for people listening. Like, how many of these conversations do you have in your life that fuel you? Or how many conversations do you have where you feel drained and tired afterwards and start to observe, okay, yeah, am I trying to fix someone else's problems or am I holding space with them? And I just value these conversations so much. Whether it's with a friend, mentor, coach, someone who. It's a soul to soul where someone's. There's true listening happening. If you haven't experienced a conversation or you don't have enough of these conversations in your life, seek out and find them. Like, that's, that's the real the kit. Like you did, man, you just said, you know, I'm going to Chicago, I want to go and experience this. And your life has never been the same since.

You know, it's, it's rebirthing. It's literally the rebirthing process. That's what I call it. And like you said, like, if it's, if you don't have even your closest friends, your best friends since you were 1 to 5 years old, even your parents, man, like, like, you know what I mean? Like, we're all one. So like, go out there, find someone. Like, maybe you don't have someone who's close to you that can listen, but like you said, you can go out there and find someone that's willing to really sit down and listen to you. So very important, man. Listening is the most important, I think, definitely.

What do you feel gets in the way for a lot of people when it comes to doing this deep inner work? Because not everyone's ready to. Because it's scary. It's not easy and it's scary. You know? At what point from the sessions and the workshops you've attended, does someone get to the point where they're ready to go? Yep, yep, I'm ready to do this. And what do you feel gets in the way for a lot of people?

I think people that surround them, the area that they're in. Definitely practices that I guess, I guess even social media, man, social media has a big impact in that because a lot of people are putting out their work, a lot of people are putting out the things that they do. And it can give you a little bit more certainty about what's out there and like almost give you a vision of like what type of like what the spirituality work is. Like, so this like the uncertainty of like, oh, what is this? What am I gonna do? I don't know what I'm gonna do. Like it's out there, the contents out there to show you what you will be doing. The other thing that's going to stop you from really diving into the work is just fear. I think it's the fear. It's your mind. It's your mind playing stories and games and telling you not to go. But you know that, you know, sometimes if you really enter the feeling that's going to show you to go that path and it's just fear. It's. It's really just fear. And it's the people that surround yourself with like their mindsets, right? You are who you surround yourself with that, you know, that really does make sense sometimes. And yeah, it's mostly fear and afraid to really get out of that comfort zone and enter that uncomfort zone and enter that uncertainty place, enter the unknown of. I don't know what the hell is gonna happen now, but I'm just gonna do it and just come in with an open mind, right? Developing an open mind and developing curiosity. Curiosity is thing that has definitely changed my life for sure. Just being more curious with anything in a conversation, like asking someone questions, just like curious with like, okay, like how do I do this? Marketing strategic or how do I enter the feeling? Just being curious about it allows you to evolve and allows you to grow. So definitely just be curious with what's going on with the spiritual work and you'll get there. You'll definitely get there. You'll overcome the fear.

Yeah, a lot of it's always scary to break out of an old pattern, right? To break out an old way of thinking is scary to the mind. And a lot of the times these old patterns are like people's or our coping mechanisms to stop us from having to feel those underlying emotions we don't want to feel. Coping mechanisms. You know, from what I've observed and I've experienced, watching too much tv, drinking alcohol, eating too much, hanging out with the wrong people, you know, social media, all these things that distract us, you know, from going in and just being with what is right now. I'm afraid that I'm not gonna make enough money and I'm afraid I'm gonna fail and I'm afraid I'm not gonna be loved and accepted by my friends and family. Hmm. What is that? Where is that feeling coming from? Yeah. And then just being the sp. You can be the space for yourself, but to get to that awareness sometimes takes someone else to help you hold space, you know? Yeah. Because for so long, I was. It was.

It was.

I couldn't say it. I couldn't see this fearful part of me that I was carrying around that just wanted to be seen and loved and said that, you know, I'm gonna love you no matter what, you know, no amount of money can give you that inner love, that inner self love, you know? So, yeah, it's a liberating experience when you know that all the love you ever wanted was already inside of you, and you don't have to go looking out there for it. You just have to go in. Yeah.

It's a funny experience because when I actually. Oh, my God. I remember it so vividly. When I really felt the inner love, like, really felt it for the first time. Whoo. It was like, whoa, what is this feeling? What is this feeling? And I was so happy, and I was just. When you feel that inner love, you automatically want to give it, right? That's why people say, like, when you feel the love you want to give. Yes, it's true. When you actually feel the freaking love, you just want to give it to everyone. Especially. That's how I was. And I felt the. I didn't want to let go of it. It was so good. You were feeling sensations in your body, like, you were so happy. You were so. It was an amazing experience. And honestly, that's what inspires me, and that's what motivates me to go out there and preach to people to do this, to try it, you know? I mean, like, people are battling out there, and I'm battling with you. We're all in the same game.

Especially now. Yeah, especially now.

Right. Everyone's at home. Everyone doesn't know what the hell to do. People are losing their minds sometimes.

I like what you said there, man, about we're all fighting our own battles, you know, and it's that. That level playing field that really allows us to connect with our fellow human. When we realize we're all. We're all kind of facing the same emotions, right? These underlying fears of unworthiness and doubt and shame. We're all going through it, so we should be easier. Go easy on ourselves and each other when, you know, during times like this. Yeah, I like that you said that. That's a good point. Oh, yeah.

And it's, and it's funny that you brought that up. What you said is we're all going through the same emotions. We're all going through different bottles, but technically the same bottle.

Yeah.

And it's like, why the hell are we not together if we're all going through the same battle? Why are we like, we're fighting against each other. People are constantly fighting against each other because they don't want to feel. And the fear takes over and then ego and significance starts coming into your life. And then you're not, you're just fully disconnected at that point. And then it's. I question it every day. It's like we all go through the same stuff. We all feel the same feelings. Why don't we just be there for each other? Why don't we just listen? Why do we have to judge for feeling that way? Or it's so that's. That's why, man. That's. That's why. It's part of my why to why I want to preach spirituality or why I want to preach personal development, personal growth. It's. It's magical.

It really is. Yeah, it truly is. Yeah. Because once you, once you shed the layers of heaviness, the layers of, you know, blocks that you're carrying around, that lightness returns to your being and you feel light and you're like, wow, you feel more expansive, then you can go out, impact more people. Right. You feel like you have more to give. Like you, you felt you had more to give. You want to go out and share this love with others. But you know, as I'm realizing along my journey, you can't prioritize the giving over your own process or self love first. Because, you know, if you're trying to show up for someone else without showing up for yourself, then that's selfish. You can't. Yeah, you can't impact at the same level. So that's where you know, like, what is your, what is your process like? Do you prioritize your own work in the mornings? Do you have, you know, you have your mentorship programs that you, you work with your other mentors. Like, what, where are your priorities when it comes to your own self love practices?

I would say since I definitely started this work, I prioritize. It might sound like a little much, but I prioritize like 80% to myself during the day. Like, I'll prioritize anything I have to do to meditate, do breath work, like nothing will get in the way of that. I really wake up in the Morning, take a drink of lemon water, go dip in the cold shower for two minutes. I've been doing that every day for the last two months. Been unbelievable, life changing. And then I go right into breath work. So I do. I do 20 minutes of breathwork, and then I would do 20 minutes of meditation. And the meditation would be more in the mind. Right. Planning on my day. What's. What's going on here? Like, right. And then the breath work before that would be more of, okay, like, what's coming up. Let's. Let's get it out. And the more. Actually, it's funny because, like, it takes a while to get to that point to really breathe and then let go. Like, you have to do breathwork. A lot of times it's like, it's like anything you're playing basketball, if you want to swish it, you gotta fucking shoot 30,000 times. Same thing with breath work. You keep doing the breath. You keep. You go deeper and deeper, and it allows you to get there quicker rather than when you first started. But yeah, and then breath work. And then I got on with my day and I go do my work. And with my mentor practices, we're actually starting. Well, the organization that we went to, he actually is part of the organization who owns it. And they're called jth, so it's called Journey to Home. They have a website, it's pretty good. It's like, whatever, nonchalant. But they're more. The. More like a private. They don't really market on social media at all because they're really, really focused on deep inner healing. And it's magical. Honestly, the best freaking program ever. But, yeah, me, my mentor, I told him, like, let's, like, you guys aren't preaching so much online, but they're impacting like four or five thousand people. Let's. Let's bring it to social media. Like, show the world what you got to share. Like, we have so much. So we're actually developing this thing. It's called One World, One Heart. It's like Instagram, whatever. We haven't really posted content yet. We're just kind of like making the content, then gonna post it. And yeah, I'm really excited to work with him. I'm 20, he's 35. He has eight kids and a wife. Yeah. So he's like, yeah, he's awesome. He's unbelievable. And we really just been meeting up once a week to shoot content, do breath work. And I have on WhatsApp, these check in groups that we just check in. And you Know, I mean, like, my name is Michael. I'm feeling blessed, blessed to be on this podcast with you. Right. And just really dive deep. And we do these check in groups and doing check in groups once a day, every day, man, is life changing. That's what, that's, that's honestly what I would take for the first. If you're curious about doing the spirituality work or personal development and you're watching this, you're hearing this, I would definitely recommend starting just check in, like get a maybe one or two or three people that you really trust and you feel that you can have a nice hold, like container that you guys can trust each other and really open up to each other. I would definitely start with that. I would definitely just start by doing like clearings and check ins and really starting breathing and being aware of what the feeling is. Like just telling yourself, okay, I'm feeling. And if it might be hard, it may be hard to check in and understand what you're feeling at that point. But the more you do it, just like basketball, you're gonna make more shots, you're gonna get deeper and deeper.

So definitely, yeah, thanks for sharing that, man. Yeah, very like, very well said and very, very powerful practice to develop with yourself and with others. Check ins, regular check ins. Yeah, mate. If people want to, if people listening want to connect with you further, where can they find you online? Is it Instagram or Facebook?

Yeah, my name is Michael Spivak. M I C H A E L and then S P I V A K. And then my Instagram is. I gotta change it. It's kind of confusing, but it's spivy. Underscore, underscore. It's S P I V Y Y, Underscore, underscore. And you'll find my stuff there. You'll find my One World, One Heart page that we're slowly coming up with. And yeah, everything will be on my Instagram there. And feel free to chat. I'm really open to connecting. I love having conversations like this. Honestly, I would have a conversation with anyone about this. I don't care. Like.

There'S so much benefit in having deep conversations, man. So I just want to acknowledge you for showing up so powerfully at such a young age and the work you're doing and the impact you're already having on people is just tremendous. And yeah, you've really inspired me and I'm grateful for our friendship, man. Even though we're on the other sides of world right now, it's so great to have these calls and be in contact.

Oh, man. Same with you, man. Fuck. The first day I met you, I knew, like. Like I said, like when I met my mentor, the first day I met you, the energy was there.

And it just goes to show, life will bring the right people into your. Into your world. You know, if you're putting out the right energy, the right people, no matter what you do for work, no matter what you do, if you're putting out the right energy, you be aligned with people to support you on your journey.

I want to say one more thing. Like when you say the energy, you give back the energy, get right back in, right? That's 100% factual. And the reason why is because we live in a world of gravity, and gravity works with energies, too. So it doesn't only work with everything that happens in the particles and whatever happens in Earth, but it also happens with our energies, right? Like, boom. Our gravity is just put us right together. And I met you, and here we are.

Here we are, brother. I just wanted to say thank you so much for coming on this. This podcast and having this conversation with me. I've really enjoyed it. I know people are going to get a ton of value from this, so thanks again and we're going to be in touch soon.

100%. Thank you. Have a great night.

There we have it, guys. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode. Again, if you took value from this episode, you've been enjoying the podcast and you haven't subscribed already, please jump over to itunes and subscribe and leave a comment or share this with a friend if you think someone could benefit from listening to this. And as always, express my gratitude to you for being a part of this journey with me and being on this this episode and really just engaging with this content. And this is during a time where we need more people to stand up and be leaders. So thank you again and we'll see you in the next episode. These are going to be coming out once a week, every Tuesday, so stay tuned. Plenty more to come.