SSP 055: Jennifer Mansell - Conscious Relationships

Guys, what's going on? Welcome back, it's Jordan Kanlish. Thanks for tuning in as always to the Stage Shifters podcast, man. There's some fire episodes rolling out here and I'm just super excited to share them with you guys, man. I look around at some of the conversations I'm having with people and it's really, we're in an exciting time. I know it's hard to see that with all the uncertainty and turbulence that's going on around the world, but I truly believe we are in such an exciting time. To go through such rapid growth and expansion and to be alive during this is just a real blessing to witness this. And if you're tuning into this type of content, you're a part of that growth, you're a part of that evolution. So it's my purpose to continue to support you along your evolution by bringing on to this podcast guests who are going to support you in receiving the ideas, the insights, the breakthroughs to help you integrate and navigate the challenges that are coming through thick and fast. And one of the biggest challenges that I've personally faced and I know all of us face is navigating relationships and navigating the. The uncertainty and turbulence that often services within our closest, most intimate relationships. And my good friend Jennifer Mansell has joined me on the podcast to discuss how to see relationships as the ultimate tools to grow ourselves spiritually, emotionally, and ultimately come together and grow and support our loved ones within these containers of growth. So Jen is amazing. She's a breathwork facilitator based in Toronto. She's been on the podcast before. If you haven't listened to that episode, it will be in the show notes, so be sure to check that one out. It was a fantastic conversation just before I left Canada, but now I'm back in Australia, she's still in Toronto. Be sure to share this one with, with a friend or anyone who you think would value and getting access to this information. It was so insightful. And be sure to leave a rating, a rating and review on itunes that would be very helpful. But without further ado, enjoy this episode, guys. Take care and we'll be in touch. Welcome to the State Shifters Podcast, a show dedicated to helping you discover your true potential through connecting the mind, body and soul. Jennifer Mansell, welcome back to the State Shifters podcast, mate. How you doing?

Hey. So good, so good. So happy to be here. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it's our second installment together because we. We did a podcast just before I shot off back to Australia. So this is our first zoom Recorded session, but second podcast. And I've been really excited to get you back on because we always have such really deep and meaningful conversations together. And I feel like it's only right to be able to share this with the world so other people can listen on this stuff, because I get so much value from them. I know other people will as well. But how are you going? How are things in Toronto? How's things in your world?

Yeah, things are. Well, it's finally summer. You know, we have, like, such a short period of summer here, so everybody is out and like, going for it, which is great. And yeah, I'm. Well, it's. It's been, you know, it's been an intense few weeks with everything that's happening in the world. I think everybody is. Has a lot on their minds and their hearts and including me. And so I've been, you know, just taking some reflection time and just doing some more inner work. And other than that, it's. Life is present and there's lots of just joy. Yeah, good.

I like it. I feel you. I second that. Certainly in a time, there's a lot of uncertainty going down, a lot of shifts and changings for people on an individual and a collective level, which is why, again, you're the perfect person for us to be having this kind of conversation, because you work with people at really deep inner level to manage and cope and process a lot of the shifts that are going on in our lives, emotionally, physically, spiritually. But today we've set the intention that we're going to focus specifically on relationships and how people can start to use relationships as a way to process their own. They're in a journey, but at the same time, how we can sort of approach relationships maybe from a different lens and maybe share some perspectives in which people, you know, maybe overlook when it comes to relationships. And we're just chatting offline how men sometimes overlook relationships, me included. I've done that in the past, for sure. We overlook the potential that lies in relationships to learn and grow in ourselves. So when it comes to relationships, I mean, you've been coaching hundreds of people now. Is it something that comes up a lot for you, like, in terms of the coaching that you're giving? Is it a topic that comes up pretty frequently? Almost all the time, I'm assuming?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so long as you're a human existing and are out in the world, you're. You're dealing with your stuff around relationships. So it is really interesting. As I was saying to you before, it's like I work with a lot of men, and they come to me and they're like, you know, I really want to go to the next level in my career, and I really want to, like, grow in my, you know, the impact I'm making and the contribution to the world. And then, like, slowly we sneak into, like, relationship territory. You know, you get to, like, the second or third session, and it's like, oh, yeah. Actually, there's also a ton of stuff happening in their relationship and in that part of their life, which I think maybe for both men and women, I don't know. But one thing that I have definitely learned over the past sort of decade has been the power, see, specifically of romantic relationships to catalyze growth. Because, you know, if this is the person that you're, I mean, in most cases spending the most time with or are most intimately intertwined, that is a place where your stuff around closeness, intimacy, attachment, honoring your own needs. That's exactly where it's all going to come up. And we're very quick to kind of go into blame and judgment and all of that. So it's actually like a beautiful container for your growth. And especially if you and your partner are in a place where you're choosing to do that growing together, which is what I call a conscious relationship, a relationship where both parties are in acceptance that their relationship is a container for their growth, there's a lot of potential there for you to shift in who you are, not just who you are in romantic relationships. It's just that the relationship will show you the places in yourself that you're maybe not willing to look at or you haven't looked at, it will push you to your edge and beyond. And then when you're able to, you know, have this container of love to come back to, when those things come up to the surface, that's when you can really, like, transform who you are and really heal.

Percent yeah, I can second that for sure. Like, I feel my relationship over the last six months has really allowed me to experience, like, a lot of inner growth. And through conversations with you where you've helped me see some of that, See a lot of the growth that's often concealed in these big breakdowns. And, like, I feel like it's inevitable in a relationship is you're gonna have breakdowns, you're gonna have disagreements, you're gonna have times when you clash. And a lot of people often, you go through phases in their relationship where at least they call it the honeymoon phase, where, like, you're together and everything's Good. And everything's amazing. And often enough, there is a point in time in the relationship where you see the other person's flaws or blocks or the stuff that's beneath the surface will start to come up. And it's usually during these times where people will either, you know, think it's the wrong person, think the timing is not right, or, you know, start to start to look elsewhere. And I see this a lot come up in conversations I have with people who are going through different levels of breakdowns. And I guess I can speak for myself. One of the biggest breakdowns that would come up in my relationship is not communicating. Not just not communicating effectively, altogether not communicating my needs. And as a man, I feel like we men are particularly challenged when it comes to communicating our emotions and needs. And I feel like sometimes the woman can think it's their fault or it's the man's fault for not, like, speaking up and communicating. I'm just wondering when it comes to communication, because I know that probably is the main, the main thing that affects relationships, lack of communication. Do you notice any correlations coming up where men are saying the same thing, women are saying the same thing, and maybe how we can start to rectify this, this issue with communication in relationships?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think, you know, communicating your needs starts with. Starts with you having a relationship with yourself where you know what your needs are. A lot of people suck at communicating their needs because they don't actually have enough of a connection with themselves to know what they actually need. Right. It takes a lot of self awareness, a lot of self awareness and connection to yourself to be able to say, you know what? I think I need some space right now. And then to go and communicate it to your partner in a loving way is like, that's like a. That takes a lot. It takes a lot. So I think the first step of that communication is a communication with yourself. How do you get better at like, recognizing. And what I want to say is you may not know the exact needs you have. Right. So I'll give you an example. Last weekend I was with my partner. We were supposed to have like the morning together. We were going to meditate and all this stuff. And he gets on his computer, and he is on his computer for like 45 minutes. And I'm sitting there kind of like waiting for him to come around. And in that moment I can identify that, like, something's up with me. Like, I'm feeling upset, you know, So I took myself into the washroom. I had a little cry. And I finally was like, oh, yeah. Like, I. I'm upset because I want to feel connected to him and close. This is the only time we have together this week, you know? And so I was able, because I checked in with myself to be like, I didn't know in that moment exactly what my need was, but I was like, oh, yeah, I want him to pay attention to me. I want to feel connected. And so then I was able to go back out, and I was like, maybe in not the most eloquent way, you know, I was, like, upset. So I was like, I feel like maybe you don't care about me, but I was able to communicate to him, like, not in a judging, blaming way, but in a. Like, hey, I'm hurt here because I want to connect with you. And you said we were going to, and now you're doing something else. And he was, you know, he was like, I'm sorry. Oh, I shouldn't have done that. I feel bad. You know? And then we were able to move. Move forward.

I want to point out the key. The key factor there that you used when you went into the communication part. You communicated from a place of truth, which was there was a need that wasn't being met. And you said what you actually wanted was just to feel connected, to feel like, to have time together. The breakdown that usually happens out of.

Ten, we either want. We want more connection or we want more space.

Mmm.

So I often get people ask themselves that, what do you need right now? Do you need to be closer or do you need to be farther away? So, sorry.

Yeah, simplify, big time. Yeah. But then the breakdowns happen when people go, yeah, yeah, right. Okay. We want connection and love, but it's the way it gets communicated. From the tone of, what the fuck? Are you on your laptop? We're meant to be hanging out. Like, what's. What's your problem? What are you doing? And the other person receives it in a way that's like, attacking that. Like, hey, you're like, smothering me. Or like, you. You know, you've been clingy. You know what I mean? So it's sort of the way in which it's communicated, which is so key. And getting to that, like. Like you said, the self awareness piece, to get to the next level, to get underneath where the mental resistance or the labeling or the judging is coming from, to identify that there's an emotional need down here, that when I communicate from that place, it gets received in a completely different way. That's totally. That's key. Yeah.

Because most of us, most of us instead launch into like. Well, I'll tell you what past Jen would have done, okay? So past Jen either would have been like, f this guy, screw him, I'm gonna go do my own thing. And would have like, you know, packed up her bags and done all this dramatic stuff and gone off and like, I'm gonna go for a run since we're not doing thing or, you know, would have done that or would have launched into like, you always do this every time, every time we go to hang out, every time we have close time, you know, launching into the future and the past of like blaming him for all the times he's ever maybe slightly ignored me. And we make things into like mega drama, like a drama. And nothing, nothing gets resolved on this level of like thoughts and blame and ego and all of that. Exactly. Like you said, when you dig in underneath, even though I came out of the bathroom as like a blubbering, crying mess, being like, I don't know if you care about me, you know, like, it's still, like you said, it's received because it's, it's coming from a place of truth. It's. That's my truth in that moment. And I'm not making it about him. I'm just having my feelings, which that, for the record, that takes a lot of practice that has taken me like three years in this relationship to be able to say I'm noticing I'm feeling upset and to take the self responsibility of removing myself from the situation so that I can actually feel what's going on to come back to it.

Yeah. I want to share an example of something that, you know, how I experienced this and how I implemented it in my life. Because people who have listened to my podcast and follow my content know, you know, I spent some time in Bali a few months ago before this lockdown thing happened. And that, that time in Bali gave me a lot of lessons because it was the first time that I'd like traveled and worked at the same time, you know, sort of in one place and the first time I'd ever had my girlfriend alongside with me. And here I was like, sort of like half on holiday, half not, half working, half not, half hanging out with her and half not. And there was this real challenge that I hit where my communication broke down and there was times where I wanted to be working and I was with her and those times when I was, you know, working and want to be with her and there was a lack of presence when I was with Her, I didn't have as much fun in the times where I should have been having fun. We hit up against a lot of resistance in our relationship during that time, but ultimately it allowed me to learn this lesson of how important that is, the need, communicating those needs. So I really think, like, you know, in the midst of, like, sometimes the biggest challenges in our relationship, we learn the greatest individual lessons that ultimately help us grow and then grow together. Which is where I'm, like, so amazed at how much we've grown together after going through such, you know, such challenges in that period of time. So I feel when it comes to people who are saying, maybe I've already gone through a breakup, maybe, maybe perhaps they're looking back thinking, fuck, I wish I had known this when I was in my last relationship or previous marriage or whatever. Is there still an opportunity for people to perhaps look back now? If they're listening to this kind of content, look back and go, oh, okay, this is where things were breaking down. This is something that I wasn't doing enough of. Have you ever. How would you invite someone to start to do that process, look back and start to learn and take lessons from past relationships?

Yeah, of course. I mean, we always have patterns. We have patterns that we repeat and live out. And you can look back in your relationships and see, you know, and a lot of it is around. Yeah. How do you go about getting your needs met? So back history here. Okay. When we are children, we are dependent on our parents to meet our needs. Right. We can't feed ourselves. We can't use the washroom ourselves. Like, we are dependent on our parents, so they fulfill our needs. Especially when you are a baby in your mother's womb, all of your needs are taken care of. Okay. So we go from having all of our needs taken care of, and then as we get older, it becomes more of our responsibility over time to take care of our own needs. Right. So when you're single and most people would, you know, identify with this, you get pretty good at meeting your own needs. You know, you're, like, making your food, go to the gym, like, whatever. When we then get into relationship, all of a sudden, after time, like you said, after we go through the honeymoon phase, then we start this period of time we call the power struggle. So because this lovely person is meeting so many of your needs, the child part of you comes out, we'll say, and because they feel safe in the relationship. And then the child starts to try and get its needs met. Now, this is. If you haven't done Enough work on yourself to really be good at taking care of your own needs, right? Which is most of us, because we're all, you know, projects and progress. So you get into this power struggle stage of your relationship, and all of a sudden you're like, well, this person should take care of my needs. Because we project onto our partner, we basically make them into our parent. This is like every guy's nightmare, right? Like, I do not want to date my mom or whatever. So we make our partner into our parents. And then we start saying, well, you need to take. You know, I imagine. I always imagine that there's like an adult and there's a child. Every person's got an adult and a child. So it's like, well, you need to take care of little Jen's needs. You need to make sure she's okay. You need to ask her questions and get to know her and give her space to express herself. You need to do all this stuff, right? And we learn this very young. The only way the child can get its needs met because it's not able to identify what its need is always right? Like a child imagine. What does a baby do when it's hungry? It cries. It's not like, hey, mom, I'm hungry. Could you, like, feed me now? You know? So the child part of us manipulates to get its needs met in some ways, right? It sends mixed messages about how to get its needs met. So as we grow into adulthood, we still play out these patterns. We play out these patterns of people pleasing. Well, if I just do all this stuff for this person, if I just accommodate him and play by his schedule and, like, play it really cool, then he's gonna love me, Then he's gonna take care of my needs, you know, oh, if I just pretend like, you know, pretend like I'm into this thing or that thing or. Or whatever it is. There's a lot of accommodating that we do to kind of like, you know, we do what we think the other person wants us to do to get our needs met. So this is a long winded way to say in looking back at your past relationships, you can likely identify the ways that you have maybe indirectly attempted to get your needs met. So maybe you pull away from your partner, you pull your energy away. You play this game where it's like, no, like, you can come find me. I'm upset. Like, withdrawal is a really big one, right? Sometimes people can be more like, smothering and in your face of like, like, I feel insecure. I'm Jealous. I'm whatever. Those are patterns of, like, trying to get your needs met, trying to get your need for trust and safety and security met.

Patterns that we would have repeated out as kids around our parents. Say, yes.

Yes. Yeah. So if you can go all the way back, like, look at your two parents. What did you have to do to get daddy's love? What did you have to do to get mommy's love? Who did you have to be? How did you have to be, and what did you have to do? Right. So maybe you had to get really good grades. Maybe you had to be quiet all the time. That was my thing. It was like, I needed to be quiet and not loud and not annoying. And I needed. And that's what I had to be. To get daddy's love, right? To get mommy's love. I had to be a resource for her to, like, she needed to lean on me emotionally. So I became this, like, therapist for my mother when I was a child, you know? So, yeah, like, over the course of our lifetime, we just repeat those same patterns out with partners. And those patterns are usually not super helpful. They usually are an indirect way of trying to get our needs met, where we could just say, instead of, like, trying to please my partner to get what I want, I could just come out of the washroom and say, like, I feel like you don't care, and I really want to feel close and connect right now. Instead of me packing up my bags, putting them in the car, going off on my own, withdrawing my energy, creating all this drama, and then not getting my needs met because I inherently push my partner even farther away. So we have to upgrade the way that we are relating to people. The way that we're relating to people. We learn very early on in our lives with our parents, and then we just repeat it out over and over and over.

Great point. Well said. And the patterns that we pick up from our parents become very noticeable patterns when things start to surface, such as someone who gets cheated on in a relationship. This. This happens so frequently. I know you have conversations about this as well. The amount of people I'm having conversations with who are saying they've been cheated on in the past, they're currently getting cheated on, or their parents, one of the parents cheated on each other at some point while they're growing up. So clear pattern between either one of the parent not having a need that's not being met and then going elsewhere to get that need met, and then the child noticing how that exchange in the relationship was happening and picked up either the mum's pattern where need wasn't being met, ended up being too smothering, father goes elsewhere, or the son or could be the daughter as well, picks up the cheating parents pattern which is feels like it's too smothered, goes elsewhere to get needs met because doesn't know how to communicate this pattern. Say someone's being cheated on, say someone has been cheated on in the past, maybe they're gonna cheated on right now and they're listening to this, they go, damn, yep, I have a tendency to not communicate my need and I've been cheated on the past for this reason. Or perhaps maybe the mum's been cheated on for this reason. What's something they can start doing right, like you know, straight away to start to hopefully nip this in the bud before it results in, you know, another relationship breakdown where they get cheated on, a heartbroken again. And the pattern, you know, cutting the pattern, like breaking it.

Yeah, I think you're dead on that it is interconnected. I think sometimes the things that happen to us when we're young are. It's like our mind is trying to recreate the same thing so, so that we can heal it. Right. So I fully believe that the psyche is trying to heal itself and that it is invested in bringing these fragmented parts of ourselves, the parts that have been hurt, heartbroken, abandoned, whatever, back into the wholeness of our being. And so, you know, for somebody who has experienced being cheated on multiple times, it's. Yeah, it's like what is here for you? How do you feel about this and where is this feeling familiar for you? If you close your eyes and you think about being cheated on in your relationship. Yeah. What feelings come up for you? And my guess is if you go back in your history, you're going to notice there were moments where you felt the same thing. So maybe, maybe mom left or dad left and maybe it wasn't necessarily about cheating, but maybe something happened and you felt this deep heartbreak of like someone betrayed you, someone cast you off and dismissed you and pushed you away. And so you have a beautiful opportunity to heal and to look at the ways that you have enabled that and to take self responsibility for your contribution. I'm not saying that anyone you know asks to be cheated on or wants to be cheated on, but is there a way in which you can take ownership and self responsibility for your part of the pattern, for your part in the dynamic which like you said, is maybe not speaking up and speaking clearly about your needs and making that open and honest in your Relationship?

Yeah, yeah. It's. It's. It's sort of like generational patterns now are starting to be broken here, you know, through people waking up to this realization around some of the stuff we're talking about and the previous generation, you know, our parents generation, you know, there's a lot of lack of emotional awareness there. Right. And then through family upbringings, there's a lot of emotional abandonment that results in that. And the more I start to, like, do my own process, and I can see emotional abandonment was there for me as well. And I was like, oh, I never got abandoned as a kid. My parents didn't cheat on me. But no, there was emotional abandonment there in other ways. There were certain needs that my parents didn't realize weren't being met for me and therefore weren't able to give them to me as a kid. I'm not able to communicate that. So it results in different patterns. Surfacing may not be cheating, but certainly is a different pattern that surfaces for me, which is around the lack of communication, of space. That's my pattern. I struggle sometimes communicating that. So for other people, like you mentioned, some of them pulling away, you know, not being able to ask for space, the clingy pattern. I don't know, is there a word for that, like smothering? All of this stuff relates to psychology as well, and attachment theory and things like that. But can you identify what some of those main patterns are or some patterns that people should be looking out for when it comes to, you know, not communicating needs effectively?

Mm, yeah, sure. I think what you said there around. Yeah, attachment is important because we're always in this, like, dance with our partner. Right. Of trying to, like, negotiate our needs. And I think, like, the belief around conscious relationship, meaning that we're both mutually committed to our relationship as a crucible or as a container for growth and healing. Within conscious relationship, it's believed that you take care of your needs first, and then you communicate to your partner what needs you have and that you have a vested interest in wanting to meet your partner's needs. Okay. So when we are really young, because of this dependency, okay, that we have on our parents, we need our parents. We need their love to survive. We need their touch to survive. We need. We need them there. Right? So if there are not there, we experience that as emotional neglect, a neglect of our needs. Right. Even if it's not intentional on their part, which a lot of times it's not. It's just their own stuff coming to play. So attachment theory kind of talks about when you're young and you're in this dependent relationship on your parent, depending on the parent and how they're showing up. This is not every parent. Some parents are, you know, did a great job, and the child felt secure in the relationship with the parent. But oftentimes what can happen is either the parent is a little too smothering, a little too controlling, doesn't want to let the child do, you know, this or that, or the other thing. Doesn't really give the child a sense of independence. So, you know, there's like two ways, right? So imagine a parent with the child at the park, okay? Little Johnny wants to go climb this tree. There's a type of parent that would be, you know, be able to negotiate that really perfectly and help the kid feel safe, but also give him a sense of autonomy, right? Then there are two other types of parent. There's like the, you know, parent that is like, no, little Johnny, you're not going to climb that tree. You know, I'm too afraid that you'll hurt yourself. You can't. I know there's all those other kids doing it, but, like, no, you need to stay here with me. There's like a sense of control and a sense of fear there, right?

Yeah.

And little Johnny just wants, like, his independence, right? And then there's the parent that's, like, not paying any attention, and it's just like, yeah, cool, go do whatever, you know. And the kid is like, look at me, look at me. Hey, I'm over here. Like, do you see me? Do you see me? So depending on, you know, how you experience your relationship with your parent, know that it's not necessarily that the parent did anything wrong. It's just how did you interpret your relationship with them? Then you can have tendencies or patterns of avoidance, Right. Little Johnny might start to. If his mom's super controlling, he might start to avoid her so that he can have independence, right? And the other little Johnny who's on the tree saying, mom, mom, mom. He might start feeling more anxious because he's like, I don't know if my parent is paying attention to me. I don't know if they're here or if they're gonna forget about me or not. And so it is often in those places that we start to create these, like, patterns of how we show up in relationships. And so typically, people tend to. Unless you are a secure individual, which I would say most of us have a touch of either of these attachment styles going on.

Yeah.

Know that you don't have to be like, abandoned and left by your parents to experience one of these. It's oftentimes a feeling of emotional neglect and abandonment, which can come from, for the record, even one memory where your parent left you at the park, or maybe your parent didn't even leave you. They were just going to the car and you experienced it as being left. That can have an impact. Right? So most people either tend to be more on the anxious end. So they have patterns where they're trying to. They're trying to get closer. They always want to be closer. They don't. They don't want there to be distance between you. And there's a lot of different ways to try and get that right. Like, oh, I'll just do nice things for the person. Oh, I'll just please them, or, oh, well, you know, ask a lot of questions, or, like, just anything that that person is just, like, trying to get closer, trying to get their needs met. And this often shows up as, like, a feeling of, like, anxiousness in relationships, of, like, wondering, like, do they like me? Do they not? Are they going to do this? Are they not? Like, they have a preoccupation always with, like, what's the other person doing? Is the other person going to meet me or not? Right. The avoidant Johnny, who's, like, trying to seek his independence is going to, you know, as the relationship gets closer, is going to want to, like, push away and create more space. And so if you're not asking for that directly, that can look like there's a lot of different things that avoidant people do. I tend to be more avoidant, so I know a little bit more about that than even being anxious. But we withdraw. We sometimes create fights to create space and distance, you know, so sometimes you can be getting closer, closer, closer. And then we do, like, a pushing away thing. Sometimes we focus our attention on past relationships and how much better they were. Anything that's just distracting you from.

Well, the big one is the overworking, isn't it? That's the big one.

Yeah. Anything that creates space. You know, the anxious partner is like anything that's trying to get closer, and the avoidant is like anything that's trying to get farther away. So we both have strategies, right? We have strategies of getting what we need. And this goes back to what I talked to you before about, which is like, do you need more connection or do you need more autonomy? And often this is what we are fighting for in relationship. We're either fighting for more closeness, more intimacy, more emotional connection, being heard, being seen, being Supported or we're fighting for having more space, more time alone, more of our own opinion in the relationship.

This is so clear. This is so clear. Again, I love hearing about you talk about this because it just, it clicks in my mind. When it clicks in your mind, that's when you can. For me, Joe Dispenser talks about this. He goes from knowledge, like the awareness to the doing. In this case, it's the communicating. It's actually implementing this knowledge. Then it turns into knowing. So it goes from like thinking to doing to knowing. And the thinking part is so important. Like again, communicating the psychology around it or what, however it gets communicated. But once you understand it, then it's like, oh, okay, I get it now I just need to communicate my needs. Right. Once that gets done, all of a sudden there becomes like this new space that gets created in the relationship where something new is able to happen, something new is able to flourish. And the other partner, the other person in the relationship then has space to experience something new within themselves. Don't you reckon that's key? That's a big one. Because everyone's trying to caught up, trying to fix the other person, fix the relationship. We've got to fix the other person. Well, we fix ourselves. We gain this knowledge of communicating what we need. All of a sudden, the partner that the other person then gets some space that they didn't have before or then see something new or different as a different energy exchange. And that can be the catalyst to support the other person in their own, Their own individual journey. Yeah. Without having to push it onto them.

You know, And I think like, there's nothing in my mind, there's nothing better than my partner communicating his need to me directly. Because then I get the satisfaction of like, oh, yeah, like I can make that happen. And then also it sets me free to take care of my own needs. Right. This morning my partner is like, hey, like, I need some space before I do work stuff. Can you make sure that you leave? I was at his house. Can you leave at 7? Because I need my space to do my stuff, to get grounded. And I was like, yeah, amazing. And then all of a sudden I'm like, this is great, because now I have all this time for me to do my own stuff. So it's actually like, it is a win win, you know, and. And I want to say, like, that doesn't mean that him saying this is my need, that there isn't also a negotiation. You know, I can also be like, yes, I can leave at 7, but would you Be willing to get my car for me and da da da, da da. You know, like, there can be a dance there too. It's not just like, whatever your partner needs, you are going to meet that need.

Definitely. Yeah, definitely. I must admit, I'm in a very interesting situation right now with where I'm at in my relationship, given the fact that this lockdown period has resulted in me being at home with my family longer than expected, resulted in my girlfriend being here at home with my family a lot longer than we've. We previously planned. So I've got this, like, battle of communicating needs and old patterns with my parents coming up and relationship. And it's again, initially, like, I catch my mind at times going, this is. Fuck this. I'm just gonna move out. I'm just gonna get another place. I'll fly back to Canada, you know, whatever. Like, my mind, when things get tough, my mind is like, wants to bail.

Like, get me out.

I'm over this. Yeah. Why am I doing this? But then again, the minute I ask a more empowering question is the minute I get to shift this from, like, why is this happening to me? To, oh, this is happening for me so I can learn more about myself and learn more how to be a better partner, be a better son. So, yeah, I say that because I'm sure people are in shitty situations as well, that they didn't plan for, that maybe they feel stuck in. But, yeah, the minute we can sort of get this knowledge and get this awareness and then see life is just giving us more challenges, more tests so we can learn these deeper lessons, we just ultimately show up better for everyone. Not just our partners, but for everyone. And relationships just happen to be the mirror that reflect that back to us the strongest. Right. One of the things I wanted to mention, Jen, because just before time goes so quick when we chat, but I want to mention that before we wrap things up, one of the signals or one of the signs that needs aren't being communicated and met in a relationship. I say this because I noticed it a few times in my relationship and it scared me a little bit. And it's resentment. And resentment is a big one. Because if resentment, it starts off as like, little resentment, something that grows, you know what I mean? Sort of like this weed that just grows. And if you don't communicate, it's sort of like it just grows and grows and grows. And ultimately you just wind up in this, like, coexistent relationship where you just resent each other, but you just put up with each other. Because you're too afraid to break up. Are there any other signals that I'm missing that might be a sign of unmet needs or not communicating properly? And if someone is experiencing resentment building or has been built, what are some ways that we can start to chop down some of these weeds?

Yeah, yeah, I like how you said that. Yeah. I think resentment is, like, a longer term. It's like when you've been in. You haven't had your needs met for a while, you start to get really resentful. The other person. And I think there's a few things there that are helpful. It's like getting clear on, like, really, really looking at yourself and saying, like, okay, what am I feeling? Resentful? Everyone can do this. You can sit down today. And for the record, we all have our own places where we feel resentful. And maybe it's in different levels. Right. There are still places in my relationship where there are touches of resentment. There's little, like, feeling inside, and I think that's okay. But we get to look at the places where you're holding resentment. Ask yourself, what need do I have underneath the resentment? Right. Because sometimes the resentment doesn't let us get to what we actually want. Right? So this is like foggy, irky clouds or like weeds, like you said. So, yeah. Looking at what am I resentful about? Maybe you're resentful about, like, money, right? I'm resentful about. About money. What's deeper under that? What's your need? Maybe you have a need to feel safe or a need to feel secure or whatever. Then is there a way in this moment that I can make sure I'm meeting this need with myself? Right. To lessen the resentment? Because sometimes we're just like, here, you take care of this need. So how can you make sure that you're meeting that need? And then how can you have a conversation with your partner? How can you create a safe container where you can have a conversation? Not from a place of, you never meet this need, and I'm so angry at you, and, you know, you suck. But from a place of, hey, you know, I'm realizing that I've been holding this thing against you, and I really don't want to do that. I want to feel close and good with each other. And I think, you know, I've been holding this resentment because I'm feeling this way and this way and this way. And, you know, I'm wondering if we can just have a conversation about that 9.9 times out of 10, if you approach the conversation like that with your partner and you come in a very, like, non. You communicate in a non violent, like, loving way from your truth because you've taken the time to do your homework on yourself. Your partner will come back with their truth. So I'll give you an example. This comes up a lot around sex, right? Because we're trying to negotiate, we're trying to get sex, we want sex, but we. We don't know how to, like, just say, like, hey, like, can we have sex? Whatever. And so, you know, there was like a period of time where in my relationship we were not really having a lot of sex. And I started getting resentful about it, feeling angry about it, and then a part of me was blaming myself, and then I was like, you know, just throwing like so much. Just like, it's funny, right, because, like, I want closeness, I want the togetherness, but I'm throwing this energy at him. Like, like, I'm resentful of you. You're not giving me what I want. When we were able to have an open, honest conversation where I was like, hey, like, you know, when we have sex, I feel so close to you, and I'm just really missing that and whatever, he was able to be like, hey, like, I've been really stressed and overwhelmed because, you know, I just lost a family member and I'm not feeling so comfortable in my body and I've been kind of down, you know, and I'm sorry, but I want to be close with you, but this is how I'm feeling. Then your heart's like, oh, I love you so much. And like, the resentment goes.

Yeah.

I think what it really comes down to is, like, having the courage to do the work with yourself, on yourself, and then going to your partner so that you can actually respect and open to a conversation where healing can happen. If you go into the conversation communicating from blame and judgment and shaming the person and, you know, beating them down, you're gonna just dig the hole farther. You're gonna build the resentment even more.

Definitely. And I can see, like, for women who are perhaps in a relationship where the guy is not communicating at all, or like there is a breakdown in any of these areas that we discussed. You can, you know, there's a pattern where we instantly blame the guy for not know. He doesn't. He doesn't communicate. Doesn't tell me, doesn't tell me things. Like, maybe you're not telling yourself things.

You're not doing it either. Trust me, I played card. I definitely play that. Card for a while. And then what I started to realize is like, yeah, I was doing that all the time. He won't tell me what he needs. He won't tell me what he needs. And then eventually I was like, okay, hold on a second. Like, I'm not really telling him what I need. And what I realized was like, almost as soon as I stepped into that and started to tell him what I needed, that like, gave him permission to also ask me, you know, if I could ask for space, then he could ask for space. And also what it made me realize. Which is kind of funny because you spend so much of your adult life, like, trying to get love in relationships, and when you finally get better at asking for what you need, you realize like, oh, my God, my partner wants to meet my needs. My partner genuinely wants to. And I'm not saying this is going to be the case for everyone, but I would say you'd probably be surprised that if you communicate from a place of like, hey, I love you so much. I just need like an hour of time to myself before we hang out, because feeling really overwhelmed, but I'm so looking forward to hanging out. Your partner is gonna be like, great. Yes, love. Take your time, you know, and that's when you actually start to feel free in relationship. And that's when you actually start to feel like you're getting somewhere and you feel full and you feel met and that you can actually create something together. You can't create from a place of resentment and blame. It doesn't work. You're not a unified force of energy. You know, if we go into the energy, when two people come together and there's like a mutual respect and a love, and we're not codependent, but we're not like coexisting. We're like here. We're two separate beings. We're taking self responsibility for our children. And then we can dance and flow together. That creates this, like, beautiful. You've seen all the images, I'm sure of, like just two humans with their energy and you can just create so much from that place of love.

Big time. Big time. Yeah. And it makes the relationship, you know, you get to grow together individually and together. And it becomes. You become like teammates in a sense in terms of the. Your evolution, you evolve together, you know, and when you don't, we don't learn this, this level of awareness, we stagnate. Our growth stops. Evolution stops. So, yeah, it's. It's a wonderful opportunity and there's a.

Fundamental belief I just want to say this, Jordan, before we wrap. There's a fundamental belief that will change everything in your relationship. And it's this. I believe that my relationship, that its greater purpose is the healing of my childhood wounds and my partner's childhood wounds.

Wow.

If you believe that your relationship has a deeper, more powerful intention behind it, and that intention is to heal your childhood wounds, same for your partner. That's when. That's when some really big, powerful stuff can happen.

Fuck. There's the. There's the highlighter. Highlight that the intent. The in someone can take this straight away, straight action, actionable item from this podcast. This conversation is like, the minute you have that intent, everything shifts.

Everything shifts.

Yeah.

Because instead of. Instead of seeing your partner as this, like, evil human who doesn't want to meet your needs, you're like. And I always say this, and I've always said this. My partner is my greatest teacher. And there are moments where I am going through my shit and I am like, I hate this guy. And then I'm like. I zoom out and I'm like, wow. Wow. The amount I've learned about myself through this man, Greatest teacher, because he's been like my dad, because he's been like my mom. He's brought it all up to the surface so that I could move through it and heal through it.

Yeah, well, yeah, that's. Honestly, that's such a great thing to end on. It's a great perspective to end on and a great belief system to adopt beliefs of really running the show of our lives. And when we adopt that belief, relationships take on a whole different journey. So, Jen, I can't thank you enough for coming on here and having this conversation. I know there's some. Man, there's some nuggets of wisdom in here that I'm really excited to share with some people in my life who are important to me and whoever else discovers this, because this is it. Like, sometimes the biggest problems with people are relationships, biggest challenges. And these conversations can start to shed some light on how we can start to use them as tools for coming together and learning more about ourselves. So thank you so much. And where can people connect with more with you? Where can they learn more about what you're up to?

Yeah, you can look me up on Instagram. I'm on there chatting away. I do all sorts of cool breathwork things and healing things. So I can drop you my handle and then you can pass it on. It's JL Mansell. M A N S E L L. Perfect.

Yep. You do some awesome breath work every Friday, which I highly suggest people check out. Mate, thanks so much and I'm sure we'll do another one of these conversations again soon, right?

So good.

Thanks J. Hey, there we have it guys. Thanks so much for listening to this episode. And yeah, look, if you made it this far, cool. Here's my voice again in your ear and I'm gonna make one more request for you is go ahead and subscribe and leave a comment on the podcast page because I'm really putting a lot of focus and attention on getting this podcast out to more people because I know what I'm putting in here can serve and bring value to people and it would mean a lot if you got value from this to leave some feedback and subscribe. So you stay up to date with what's coming up and as always, follow me on Instagram and love hearing from you. It's dateshifters until the next episode. Guys, thank you so much and I appreciate you.