SSP 066: Zuby - The Work Behind a Viral Tweet

Guys, welcome back. Jordan Kamlish, State Shifters Podcast. It's an honor to have you with me on the show. And really my intention behind this podcast is really to give you the fuel, to give you the fuel that your soul needs to expand. And I do that by bringing on guests who have inspired me or are inspiring me by the work that they're putting out to the world. And today I have Zubi. He is an independent rapper, podcast host, author, and a public speaker. He has over 500,000 followers online and he was born in England, raised in Saudi Arabia, and he's graduated from Oxford University. He sold over 25,000 albums independently, performed in eight countries, and achieved over 10 million online video views. Damn, this guy's killing it. Guys, it gets better. Zubi has been featured on the Joe Rogan Experience, BBC Fox News, Sky News, and Adam Corella show, the Rubin Report and the Candace Owens show, and the Ben Shapiro show, amongst others. This guy's playing a big game. So I'm honored to have Zooby on the State Shifters Podcast and shit. If, if it's any near the gobar, we're moving up in the world. We're, we're getting guests that have been on the Joe Rogan Experience. Guys, this is next level stuff, so it's a true honor. Zuby and I spoke about a range of different topics. His awesome story, he's very fascinating story about how his Twitter post went viral and how he found himself on the Joe Rogan Show. So if you enjoy this episode, I'd love if you could leave a review on itunes and leave a rating. That would mean a lot otherwise. One last thing. If you're listening to the podcast, if you've been a regular listener and you're starting to gather some information around some shifts you want to make in your life, but you feel like that information is not being translated into wisdom as quickly as you would like, meaning information is not turning into transformation. I have something for you. I want you to drop me an email@jordanstateshifters.com and I want to show you a way in which we can start to accelerate the translation of information to transformation. Because that's the whole reason why I do this. I want to give you the information you need to create the shifts that allow you to create true and lasting transformation. So I wanted to put that out there. I know the podcast is awesome and there's information coming at you that's relevant, but if you want help transforming this content into the life that you want, send me an email. Jordanestateshifters.com Enjoy the episode, guys. It's a beauty.

Welcome to the State Shifters Podcast, a.

Show dedicated to helping you discover your.

True potential through connecting the mind, body and soul.

All right, I got my man Zubi here on the Stage Shifters podcast, mate. How are you going today?

Blessed and highly favored as always, Jordan.

It's really exciting to have you on here, man. And as always, I cross paths with people who intrigue me, interest me and resonate with the journey that I'm on. And you're someone who's been putting out a lot of really inspiring content. And you're an interesting guy. You're an independent rapper, you're a podcast host, and you're a coach. You're based in the uk, mate. For people who maybe never come across your brand or your name before, how did you get to where you are right now in your journey? What's the short story of Zuby, man?

Hard work and perseverance. So, in terms of my background, because someone's probably listening to my accent right now and wondering where I'm from, I was born in England, I grew up in the Middle east and Saudi Arabia where I, when I was there, I went to an American school for about eight years, hence the hybrid accent. My family background is originally from Nigeria. I was very good in school. I did very well in my exams and everything. I studied at Oxford University, got a degree in computer science from there. When I was in university, I started rapping and I actually released my very first album when I was in my second year of university. That was a CD called Commercial Underground. So that was where I started to make some waves with my music. I've always been a self releasing, diy, hundred percent independent artist. Never been signed to a label, never had a manager, never had an agent. I do absolutely pretty much everything myself. And yeah, that was the sort of spark moment where I started to build a little bit of a name for myself just through my music. So after that, after I graduated, I did my music full time for a year and I released a second album called the Unknown Celebrity. And then I actually moved to London. I worked in London for a couple of years as a management consultant whilst juggling my music career on the side. And then in 2011, both careers were starting to interfere with each other too much and I knew I wanted to be doing music. So I took the big leap. I left the stable, secure corporate job and I decided to become an independent rapper full time. And so since November 2011, coming up to nine years now, I've Been full time, self employed. It just started out with my music and it all started with primarily selling CDs and that's how I was mainly making my income. I would travel all over the uk, city to city. I've been to pretty much every city and town in the uk, promoting and selling my music, just going out there on the street, putting in the legwork, doing the real world hustle, and using a bit of social media as well. But it was primarily through real world activities. I was touring, I was gigging, doing everything I could to get my name out there as an independent artist. And then fast forward a couple of years, I started doing pop up shops around the uk. So beyond my music, I'd also sell my merchandise. T shirts, hats, I used to have my own brand of headphones, hoodies, all kinds of stuff. And so I would sell those. So from 2014 to 2018, that was my main bread and butter. And then in 2019, 2019 was a big watershed year for me. So I wanted to. I was already in a situation where I wanted to step away from doing the pop up shop. And lo and behold, I went very, very viral. In early 2019, I posted a nine second clip of me doing a 230 kilo deadlift, claiming that I identified as a woman and had just destroyed the British women's deadlift record. I posted this to my 19,000 Twitter followers at the time thinking that, okay, this is gonna get, you know, this will get some laughs and this will get some shares, et cetera. Little did I know that this would become a global, like a global viral phenomenon, right? That video then, you know, I think now it's got almost 3 million views just on Twitter alone. It went viral on Twitter, it went viral off Twitter. It was being talked about by some of the biggest media personalities in the world. You know, Joe Rogan, Piers Morgan, et cetera. It was just getting, it got retweeted into oblivion. That single tweet just on Twitter has done over 12 million impressions. And then it also went viral on Facebook, it went viral on Instagram, it went viral on YouTube. The interviews that I did following it.

Went viral just because of the banter behind the post or like, what do you think made it go viral, man?

I think it's because it had every single element of like, I work with people on social media, coaching, and people always ask me what makes things go viral. And this post had every single element that can make something go viral. It was timely, it was very funny, it was making a deeper underlying point that people thought was impressive, it was very shareable, it had video content and. Yeah. And it intersected a lot of different worlds. So it went viral in the world of politics, it went viral in the world of sports, it went viral in the world of bodybuilding, powerlifting, feminism, all these disparate things. It just hit right in the middle of all of them. At a time where a lot of people were talking about this issue because you had the Olympics 2020. Well, prior to Pandemic, we thought that was going to be coming up. So people were having this conversation and it just. And it was done in a funny way. Right. So I wasn't, I'm not the first person to make the point, but most people make the point in a very sort of matter of fact way and want to give you the biology and the reasoning and whatever. And so instead of the logic, I was like, you know what? Actually I'm just going to take the logic, which I think is, you know, the demented, and I'm just going to run with it. So instead of like making an argument against it, I'm saying, oh, okay, so anyone who identifies as a woman is a woman. Fantastic. I identify as a woman and I'm now the strongest woman in Britain. Bingo, done. Thank you. So, and people saw the humor in that, right? It wasn't venomous, it wasn't angry, it was just like, okay, well this is the point. So he's making the point, but also it's being done in a funny way. So a lot of people related to it. A lot of people felt that it was something that they. Anyone who's from. A lot of people who are familiar with the idea and that whole conversation have been sort of feeling this way for a long time, but a lot of people are sort of afraid to say it and whatever. So I think also a lot of people just like the fact that someone like myself who doesn't really care if an online mob comes after him or whatever, like I just put it out there. Yeah, that ended up being a huge watershed because the tweet itself didn't just go viral, but I myself went viral because people realized, okay, this isn't just like a one off thing. That's interesting. This whole guy is interesting. Oh, he's a rapper, oh, he's got a podcast. Oh, he's always funny, he's got interesting views on this, he's quite insightful, he's intelligent, etc. So the opportunities that led from that, so I then went, you know, I ended up going to the US for two and a half months from September to November Last year, I was invited on the Joe Rogan Experience. I did the Rubin Report, the Ben Shapiro Show, Glenn Beck Podcast. I was on Fox News a couple times. I got the opportunity, you know, I was just getting invited to, to do all of these different shows, getting all of these opportunities and everything because so many people wanted to speak to me about various topics. And then also in 2019, I released my first book. I wrote and released my book Strong Zubi's Guide to Fitness for Everybody, which has sold, you know, a few thousand copies now independently. And so stuff has just kind of grown and my audience has gone from, I mean, beginning of last year, across all my social media platforms, I think I had about 40,000 followers and it's now over half a million, and that's in the course of 18 months. So stuff is just growing, mate.

Phenomenal story, by the way. Really, really amazing to hear about all you've accomplished so far and your ability to execute as well. It's not easy writing a book. It's not easy making viral content out of all of that. You just explained what were some of the core lessons you took from all of those opportunities that came your way? Given the fact that it'll probably happen really quick, I feel. Probably would have felt like it happened really quick, particularly being on the scale of Joe Rogan and Ruben show and some big, big name platforms. What kind of was going through your mind throughout all that? And were you able to kind of integrate some of the lessons that you took from that stage?

Yeah, definitely, man. I mean, you know, people have to remember that I released my first album in 2006. So I've been, I've been on the grind, I've been working, I've been building my audience, I've been putting out content for well over a decade. And so I've been planting seeds for many, many years. And I've been gaining skills and honing my message and my communication and all of the things, you know, it's something, something that's interesting about the, the deadlift video itself is that it's quite a good analogy, right? Because a lot of people say, oh, you know, like I've had people sort of say, like, oh, anyone could have made that video, or this was just like a lucky thing. I'm like, okay, go, go, go lift that weight then, right? What percentage of the population can even lift that? Right? So it's quite a good analogy of the amount of work it takes. So something looks on a surface level, all right, You See the tip of the iceberg and it looks like, oh, okay, like this is just, he just walked in there and deadlifted that. It's like, no, like, to even be able to lift that weight, that takes many, many years of hard work behind the scenes. And that's like what my whole career has been. So I've been planting seeds all of these years and now some of them are starting to, to germinate and, you know, blossom and grow. There's still a lot, there's still a lot more to come, but I've been putting in all that work, right? Ten years ago, if you, if you put me, if you put me in that position 10 years ago or even five years ago, I don't think I would have been in a position to take advantage of it, right? I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have been able to parlay the media appearances the way that I did. I wouldn't have had the confidence even on those. Right. As I'm talking to you now on this podcast, if you spoke to me 10 years ago, I would not be speaking this eloquently, right? I wouldn't be, I wouldn't have my message so focused. I wouldn't be so confident in who I am and my abilities and what my message is, etc. All of that stuff takes time. So what it meant is when those opportunities were presented to me, I was able to identify them, I was able to jump on them, and I was able to make the most of them. So rather than this just being a flash in the pan 9 second video, which goes viral for a week, it ended up being something to help me launch myself into a whole new echelon and whole new audience. And a lot of people, you know, if you go on some of my YouTube videos, a lot of people wrote, you know, came for the deadlift, stayed for the music, or, you know, came for the deadlift, stayed for the podcast, et cetera, right? Because that's how they discovered me. But it's like, oh, okay, that was the door to come in. But there's a lot more to me and what I'm doing and what I'm going to do in the future than just a one off. Than just a one off video. That just happened to be the discovery mechanism.

And there's something I truly admire in that. And it's the consistency in which you've shown over a period of time and the patience that probably comes along with that consistency of, like you said, putting out content year after year. And it's that One big break. That the divine timing shows up in which you are ready to then now leverage all that work you'd put in in the past. And I'm curious to get your opinion on this because a lot of people dabble. A lot of people dabble in things. And I'll put my hand up, I've dabbled on things before. I haven't really shown the consistency because sometimes it takes. It takes a lot. Takes a lot of drive and a lot of purpose to be able to keep showing up day after day, whether it be the gym, creating content, starting a business, whatever it may be. What was it that allowed you to have that level of consistency, to be able to show up for yourself? And when you're working for yourself, as you know, sometimes can be hard to have that motivation. Where was that coming from for you?

Yeah, some of it is just how I'm naturally wired, so I can't say it's sort of anything I've learned to some degree. I mean, my parents have stories of me being like four or five years old and exhibiting a lot of the same traits. So I think I'm naturally hardwired that way. But a lot of it is also knowing my purpose and knowing what I'm trying to do, Right. A lot of people wake up every day and they don't really know. They don't know what they're doing, and they're also not doing what they want to be doing. Whereas in my case, I know what I'm striving for. I know what my big goal is, and I'm also doing what I want to be doing. I'm on the course, right? So it's like, okay, this is my goal and I'm on the road. And I'm also enjoying the road, right? I'm enjoying the drive, I'm enjoying the process. I'm doing what I love. Every conversation, every song, every performance, every public speaking gig, every. I'm going to write more books, you know, every word written down, everything is like taking me closer. Each person I coach, right, I have a desire to have a positive impact and influence and motivate millions and millions of people across the world. So every single day, each follower gained, each new person subscribing or listening or whatever, that's just like inching and inching closer and closer. And I'm loving the whole process. So for me, that makes it super easy for me to just keep going. Cause it's like awesome. Like, this is what I want. It's taken me many years to get to this position, now that I have this platform and I have this audience and I have these opportunities, let me make the most of them. And also, I'm obsessed with the idea of potential, right? To me, it's really important to strive to meet my potential, and I want to encourage other people to strive to reach their own potential. So I can't slack, right? I wrote a book on fitness. I can't slack on my own fitness, right? I'm talking all this off trying to encourage and motivate other people. I need to live it, and I do live it. And authenticity is important to me. I don't put anything out there that I myself cannot live by or abide by. I'm just sort of sharing my own journey and hoping it inspires other people, seeing how people respond to my words, respond to the things I'm doing. And I get so many emails, so many DMs, so many messages. Yeah, sure, I get the horrible ones, which I occasionally share because it's funny, but for each of Those, I get 20 or 30 really positive ones. So, you know, I had someone literally this morning who bought my book a year ago who messaged me to say that, you know, they've lost all of this weight and they're now doing this and they're not doing that. They just wanted to email me to say thank you. And it's like, awesome, right? That's someone's life. I've actually changed, right? I've actually changed this person's life. I've had people email me telling them that my music and podcasts help them to stay positive when they were battling cancer. I get people who follow me, and then they're like, you know what? I used to disagree with you on loads of things. And actually, you've sort of changed my position on this or on that or all these kind of things, or you've inspired me to go to the gym more, take my relationship more seriously or start a business, or you've shown me, oh, you can build a following without pandering and by being authentic and without losing your sense of humor and all that kind of stuff. Whatever it is, to me, that's all positive. That's all inspiration. Whatever avenue it comes through, I used to always want it to come specifically through my music. And then I've sort of expanded out over the past few years, and I'm like, great. If it comes from my music, that's awesome. If it comes from something else, that's also awesome, I don't really care, as long as you're in the Zooby house, you can come in through whichever door you want and be in whichever room you want or run around all of them. But I'm just happy to have you here.

Yeah, epic, man. Yeah, really resonate with that. And there's one thing I'm going to compliment you on and I'm going to ask you a question. Relating to this as well is your ability to articulate your words extremely well. Very eloquent. And I must ask, obviously you're a rapper, so growing up, you must have discovered an innate gift to be able to express your creativity through the spoken word. But I'm curious to know, was there. Has there been anything that you've specifically done that it's allowed you to kind of refine this skill? Because it's a craft, right, that you've gotten very good at this and it's your outlet? Has there been? Or is it just you speaking and rapping every day? What have you done to really sharpen this skill, man? Because it's amazing. I can listen to you talk all day, mate.

Thank you so much. I appreciate that, man. A lot of it is practice. It's practice and it's not just practice, but it's also listening back to my stuff. So I've listened to every song I've made. I've listened to at least several hundred times. Every interview I've done. Maybe not all of them, but at least 60, 70% of the interviews I do, whether that's me interviewing someone or someone interviewing me, I listen back to. So I'm constantly listening to my stuff and I'm trying to refine the way I do things. Just like I watch back my live performances. When I first started doing live shows, I used to rap with the mic and I used to always be looking at the ground, right? And I'd sometimes turn my back to the audience and I'd be like, why am I. When I'm on stage, I wouldn't notice it, but then I'd watch back the video and I'd be like, why am I looking at the ground? Or maybe I'm moving my hands in a certain way, which doesn't really kind of go with it. And then you just like. I think boxers and fighters and sports players watch back video to see what they're doing. So I do the same thing and I listen to myself and I don't want it to be too contrived. Like, I don't want to ever get to the stage where it's like, oh, you know, I'm not allowed to say the word or I'm trying to fix every single stutter or whatever. But the ones that are distracting, I try to fix over time. If I listen to my first few episodes of my podcast, I notice that I say, you know, a lot. I'm always saying, you know, you know, you know, I'm saying like too much. I'm saying like, like, like. So these are things that I became cognizant of. And now when I'm speaking more deliberately, I can try to eliminate those. If the occasional one is fine. But if it gets to the stage where it's distracting in your speaking, then if you're a public speaker, if you're a podcaster, if you're on the radio, etc. You don't want to be saying like every four words because it's very distracting. You don't want to be ending every sentence with, you know, what I'm saying or in it or whatever. People have these little things that they do, and most people don't recognize them and aren't conscious of them. And for the most part, it doesn't matter. But if you're a professional speaker, then it's important to be able to articulate yourself clearly and without too much distraction.

Yeah. And the reason I wanted to bring that up was because speaking for me became one of my primary outlets of expression after I realized that it was something that I really struggled with growing up through school, I really had a lot of challenges expressing my truth. And I know this, and I bring this up again because I know a lot of people listen to this podcast are aspiring creators, or they may look up to you or me in the way we communicate. And I've always said speaking was one of. One of my greatest fears growing up, I really struggled with it. And it was from that that I chose to lean into my greatest fear, which was speaking on a stage. And I remember last year in Toronto, I did my first speaking competition. And it was in that moment, in the seeds of that moment, that I realized I'd overcame one of my greatest fears. And my pain in speaking all of a sudden became an outlet for me to express my purpose. So I'm curious to get your opinion on if someone's listening to this and they struggle with creating, maybe they don't know. They haven't discovered their outlet of creation yet. Maybe they want to lean, be a speaker as well or start a podcast or start putting content on social media. But they're hitting up against some resistance, maybe some self doubt, maybe some limiting beliefs are getting in their way. What has helped you overcome? Because I'm sure you had some limiting beliefs along the journey. What has helped you kind of keep moving forward in the face of some of these fears and self doubt?

Well, I think you should reframe fear, right? So fear is actually one of the best motivations because fear tells you a lot of people think. So there, there's different types of fear, right? There is a rational fear of, okay, like, my life is in danger. You should be afraid to, you know, run across the highway when it's got loads of cars on it. You should be afraid of, you know, if you come face to face with a bear or a tiger or something, right? That's fear for your life. It makes sense. Fear of heights, There are certain fears that make sense, but something like a fear of approaching a stranger, or a fear of selling something, or a fear of starting a business, or a fear of starting a YouTube channel, this is not a proper. It's the most common fear, right? Glossophobia, fear of public speaking is a bigger fear, fear than death, right? But that's because human beings are social creatures and we fear judgment from others. That's ultimately what it is. Anyone who's crippled by that, it's because you fear what other people are going to say, how they're going to react and how that's going to make you feel. So firstly, you got to think like, okay, worst case scenario, what's the worst thing? I start a podcast and nobody listens. That's the worst case scenario. Or a couple people laugh at it, or I make a YouTube video and some people don't like it, or I put this thing out there and I put out a song, I make some music and some people don't like it and they criticize it. That's pretty much the worst that can happen, right? You're not going to die, you're not going to get injured, you're not going to have any grievous bodily harm or whatever. So when it comes to that, I think you can actually reframe fear as fear showing you where you need to go, right? Because if you feel that trepidation, right, that trepidation you felt about, you know, you want to do public speaking and you felt a fear about doing so, that is actually telling you that you need to do it. If you want to develop as a human being, if you want to improve, if you want to get better, you have to face your fears. You have to constantly edge out of your comfort zone, right? You don't want to Go way, way, way out of your comfort zone immediately, but you want to edge your way out of it. And then you can do bigger and bigger things. Maybe you can, oh, wow, okay, I can speak to 10 people, so I can speak to 50. Oh, maybe I can speak to 100, maybe a thousand, etc. And you build that confidence to the stage where if you did 20 speaking events in front of a thousand people, by the fourth or fifth one, you'll probably be pretty confident, because that's now in your comfort zone. Someone who does that every single day, it's totally in their comfort zone. And we all have things that are, you know, inside and outside of our comfort zones. But if you want to grow and you want to develop, you've got to constantly be going out of it. It doesn't matter what it is. Learning an instrument, learning a language, learning a new skill, learning how to code, learning how to do public speaking, learning how to use some equipment, whatever. You're always gonna. It's never gonna be in your comfort zone to begin with, but the way you improve is by venturing into that, and then eventually those things that previously were, like, very, very difficult for you now become easy. A great metaphor is going to the gym, right? I remember the first time ever. I remember when, When. When did I first ever bench 100 kilos? Maybe I was like, 18 or 19, right? And the first time I did it, like, I remember how heavy it felt. Like, I can, you know, just that one rep, just, like, struggling, like, you know, really, really struggling. Now benching 100 is, like. It's easy, right? It's easy. It's now totally in my comfort zone, right? And that's a great metaphor for everything or anyone who's ever learned a language. Like, I have a lot of respect for people who learn, you know, second, third, et cetera. Languages. Because to begin with, it's like being a toddler again, right? You don't. You're, you're, you're just that you. You're. You feel terrible, you feel stupid, right? It's just like, wow, I cannot say this thing. You've got the accent all wrong. You don't know what the words mean. You can't read stuff properly, but you keep doing it. And then you will eventually reach a stage where, if you stay at it, you'll eventually reach a stage where, you know, you're just talking to somebody while you're speaking to them in French or in Spanish or whatever the language is. And people sort of see that end result. But people tend to Miss the process. So everything is just always about. So. Yeah. So coming back to the original question, fear, I think, number one, think, what's the worst that can happen? And the worst that can happen is really not that bad. And it's also probably not going to happen. And then using that as like a motivator. Okay, I fear that I've got a slight, you know, butterflies in my stomach. I'm not so sure. So that means I have to do it.

Yeah. And I want to stay on the topic for fear for a second here because, you know, like you said, it's actually, it's not the actual thing we're afraid of doing. It's the emotion that we're afraid of feeling if the worst case scenario happens. So the minute we can be okay feeling that emotion. Oh, it's just I'm afraid of being judged. Okay, can I be okay with this? Can I be with this? And oftentimes it's within that inner process where we unravel the fears, we actually unlock a new layer of courage or a new layer of freedom that allows us to step into something that previously wasn't available for because of the constraint of fear. So fear it for me is like you said, the ultimate navigator and the pathway to becoming more free. So I get the sense that probably within this, the last 12 months, you've been exposed to some situations where you're being stretched beyond your comfort zone, man. You've been on some big name platforms, podcasts, exposure, and interviewed by guests. I'm sure there's some fear that came up for you within those moments. Right. What was your way of navigating or dealing with the fear? And perhaps like even Joe Rogan's podcast, that would have been pretty nerve wracking. What was going through your mind before going on to that? Because there's a lot of people who are listening to his stuff. Was there, you know, was there some nerves listening butterflies? And if so, what was your way of getting in, you know, staying in flow or just calming yourself so you can be your best?

I'll be honest, man, there wasn't that much fear because I'd already put in the work, right. I'd already done the, I'd already done the repetitions, I'd already trained. So when it came up to me being in a room with Joe Rogan or Dave Rubin or Ben Shapiro, I wasn't like, oh my gosh, crap, like I don't know how to speak, I don't know what my thoughts are, whatever. Like I spent so much time Formulating these thoughts to the point where I can. I can articulate them or someone can ask me, like, a question and I don't get super flustered or this or that. So for me, personally, my bar for, like, striking fear in me is pretty high. Like, I'm someone who's pretty hard to make fearful. And there are things there would be, right? If it's something that. Again, something totally out. I've never. I don't know. I've never been surfing before. So if someone was like, okay, let's go surfing, I probably wouldn't be, like, afraid, per se, but I'd be like, holy crap. Yeah, very uncomfortable. I'd be way out of my element. You know, if someone's like, yeah, let's go climb this mountain. Like, I've never climbed a mountain before. Like, this is gonna. If some mountaineer who does it every weekend took me out, I'd be like, oh, geez. Okay, this is well out of my comfort zone. But talking, speaking, performing, recording, an interview, whatever. I do it a couple hundred times a year. So there's no. There's no in. I don't know. There's no situation. And the thing is, as well is I talk about things that I know I don't. So I don't. I don't pretend to be. I don't pretend to be an expert on everything, and I'm not afraid to say I don't know. So if someone asked me some question about, like, oh, what's your opinion on, I don't know, the Israeli Palestinian conflict? I'll be like, I'll be honest, man, I don't know. I can't say anything intelligent about that situation because I don't know. So I try to say. I just say what I know. There are certain topics I, like, really don't talk about at all. But the things I do talk about, I've thought about. So by the time I get to the point of articulating something, whether it's just in a tweet or it's in an interview or whatever, I've already been debating it in my head for a while, sometimes for years. And I've been thinking about it, and I'm thinking about it from different angles and everything like that. So I don't feel. I don't feel too flustered. And also, I'm lucky in terms of my personality type. I'm very, very. I'm extremely low in neuroticism. Like, extremely low. Bottom 2% of the population, right? So in terms of dealing with sort of any type of, you know, anxiety, stress, worry, like, that's just not me. So that's, that's just a natural wiring, which is very fortunate for what I do because if I didn't have it, I'd probably, yeah. Spend a lot of time sort of crying on the floor because people are mean to me on Twitter.

Yeah, it certainly helps when you deal with anxiety and you're not prone to it, especially in the industry and space you're in. Hey, has there been any main lessons you've taken from being around? Like, you've now associated with some pretty high profile people, artists, musicians, creators. Has there been anything in particular that stood out to you from the people you've been around and any lessons you've taken from some of the podcasts or interactions you've had with some of these high profile people?

Yeah, good question, man. Firstly, I'd say that virtually everybody I've met has been as I thought they'd be. Like, I haven't been disappointed in a lot of people, which is great. So I think number one is humility and being down to earth. Just being down to earth. And this is something I've always done. And I very much view people, I don't view myself as being like, above people. And I've never done this, even in my music and stuff. Like when I do gigs after I perform, I don't go and hide backstage. Like, I go into the crowd and I take photos and I like hug people and I shake hands and sign stuff, whatever, right? And I've always done that. I mean, remember, I built my own fan base by going out on the street and talking to strangers, right? That, that takes humility, right? Not just hiding behind something, hoping some organization is going to promote me. I was like, no, I was there. I've spoken to hundreds of thousands of people. I've had thousands of people say no to me, thousands of people ignore me, hundreds of people insult me. And I just kept on going. I just kept on going. So I don't view myself. It's weird. Some people look at me now and it's like, oh, wow, this guy has a lot of followers or he's done this or he's done that. And sometimes people kind of put you on that level. Just like I might look at someone like Joe Rogan or Ben Shapiro and think like, oh, wow, they're on that thing, but they're not. Like, they, they're. And. And they don't act like they are either. Right? They don't act like they are. I've met a lot of rappers. I've met my favorite rapper, Tech9. Humble. Humble, just humble. Cool. Talks to you on a level. It's not like, okay, I'm way over here and you're way over there. So that's something that I admire in other people. And I very much try to be the same thing, you know, regardless of how big or famous or whatever, whatever level of popularity I'm able to achieve in my lifetime, that's something I always want to be able to, you know, just maintain and just stay down to earth and then, yeah, just being genuine, being authentic and being kind, you know, just being kind to people, that's not something I've necessarily had to learn from them. That was instilled in me from my parents. But kindness goes so far. It's so weird. Like a lot of people have this idea that to get ahead you have to screw people over or you have to be like a bit of an a hole or you've got to be like, you know, very dog eat dog kind of. And I think that's like a big myth. I don't think that's true. I really don't think that's true. Like, sure, there will be examples of people who have done that and have found success off the back of it, but you really don't have to. Kindness goes very far. Politeness goes very far. Being, you know, just humble and decent and trying to help people, etc. All of that stuff goes very far. Because ultimately the way you become successful is by helping a lot of people, right? Like that. That's what success is in whatever field you are in. If you can add a lot of value to people, you can help a lot of people with whatever it is, whether this is surgery or making music or flying airplanes, you can be very successful because you're providing a product or service that people need, that people want. And you can do all that with kindness. You don't need to be some sort of like evil, exploitative person who's always trying to, you know, screw people over, put the foot down on someone or whatever. That's really, It's a myth. And I wish people would realize that because I think people would actually just be nicer to each other.

It's like the new. This is the new economy, right? So what Gary Vaynerchuk talks about. Thank you. Economy, where it's built around kindness, built around giving. There's no more win, lose, it's win, win all the time. These old structures of an economy that's based on the capitalistic model where it's like, it's competitive. I feel like that is coming to an end. It's not going to. That way of doing business is no longer going to work. It's no longer going to serve the world going forward. So. Yeah, I totally agree. Another thing I'm curious to ask you is, given the fact you mentioned kindness, given the fact that you are very down to earth and don't put yourself above anyone else, I can imagine there's probably a lot of people who want to get a piece of your time, get a piece of your energy, and discerning between, okay, yeah, this is something I want to do, or this is something. No, this isn't for me. And I guess a lot of that comes back into intuition as well. And I'm curious to know how you've been able to cultivate that inner sense of knowing. Yep, this is the next step for me. This is the. This decision I should make. Has that been something you've always been good at or you've had to kind of cultivate that skill?

Yeah, I'm still learning, man. I'm still learning. There's a lot of stuff I'm learning because, like I said, I'm in a really different position now than I was at the beginning of last year. The audience is a lot bigger. My influence is a lot greater. I need to sort of think things through a little bit more, because to give you an idea, I mean, my Twitter account does 100 million impressions a month, so that's up to 100 million, like, people seeing my tweets. Like, that's how. And it's not rare for a single tweet to be seen by millions of people. It's not rare for a single interview I do to be seen by hundreds of thousands or millions of people, et cetera. So that with that comes, like, you know, level of a. Level of responsibility, which in a way, I'm happy for. In another way, I'm still kind of like. I don't really know, like, you're kind of. You're kind of working it out. But in terms of knowing what to. I think there's two questions there. I think, number one, you were saying, like, a lot of people sort of demanding my time or asking for it, etc. And I try to. I just do. I do what I can. You know, I do what I can. I can't spend all day respond. I can't respond to every DM or let. I can't even see 90% of my mentions. Like, I don't I can't see most things anymore. I used to be able to respond to everything and I would try to. Now it's just there's too much volume, you know, and it would be a full time job to do so. But what I do is I try to, you know, certainly let every genuine supporter know that they are appreciated. And I try to respond to everybody sometimes. I can't respond to everybody all the time, but I try to respond to every like genuine fan or supporter or follower that I have at least occasionally, at least acknowledge them. Even if it means just, you know, liking something that they liking a comment or just saying thanks or whatever. You know, if someone, if someone writes me a message saying that I've helped or I'm inspired, like, I'll never ignore that, you know, as long as I see it, I won't ignore it. At the minimum, I'll just say thank you or I'll like it or something, you know. And that doesn't take, that doesn't take too much time. And it's worth the effort, you know, it's worth the time, it's worth the effort because I view these as lots of, you know, hundreds of thousands of individuals, one to one relationships rather than just like one relationship between one and, I don't know, however many hundred thousand or whatever it is. So that's what I do. And I'm the same in the real world, man. Like, I mean, it's not rare for me to bump into people in whatever, whatever city I'm in who recognize me or whatever. And it's the same. Like I tell people, have you seen me? But like, don't be weird, just say hi, like, you know, I'll be as excited to meet you as you are to meet me like this to say what's up? Like if you, you know, we could have a chat. Like it happens, happens in the gym, happens. Like I can be out in the park or whatever. I was in London the other day, like at the grocery store and someone recognized me and it's like cool, like just that's fine, you know, it's cool. I don't think I'd ever want to get to like a super crazy level of celebrity where like I need to sort of hide in my house or anything like that. But yeah, no, it's cool. And in terms of knowing what to do, some of it is playing it by ear. I mean, last year I sort of took the approach of saying yes to almost everything. So last year I was just like, look, if someone wants to interview Me wants me to do a podcast, whatever, regardless of the size, regardless of the audience, whatever, like I'll just say yes. Now I'm a little bit more protective of my time because I need to be. So I need to prioritize things that I think are going to move the needle in some way, shape or form. So, you know, if someone has just started a YouTube channel and they have five subscribers and they want to get me on, you know, I'll say good luck with the channel, but not yet, you know, feel free to reach out to me in the future when there's some benefit to me. Right. If I'm gonna, there's gotta be. There has to be a, it has to be a two way thing, right. And so. Or you know, if I feel someone's taking them, if I feel someone's like sort of taking the mic as we say in the uk, then you know, I won't. That doesn't need a response, but it's just, yeah, trying to do things that I think move the needle forward and which are valuable, which are good uses of my time. That's really what it is now. And I'm very far from getting that totally right. And it'll morph and it'll change over time. I'm doing my best to handle it and also just to stay, to stay sane in the process.

Yeah, 100%. 100%. And I'm going to be mindful of your time here, mate. I'll keep this short and succinct, but for people who are listening, people will probably look up to what you've created so far and really some people might aspire to reach the level that you're right now. And I'm curious to know, what advice maybe would you give to someone who is just starting out in their journey. They're looking into starting to share their gifts with the world, whether that be via social media or whatever, in person, whatever their channel of expression is. What's some advice you would give to someone who is starting to really put. Leave their mark? Is there a specific area or platform you'd suggest starting or. Yeah. What would you want to share?

Yeah, I'd say the first thing is know what you understand why you want to do it. First of all, right, do you just want to be famous because you want to be famous or do you just want to have a lot of followers for your ego or whatever? Right. Like think about why you want to do it because that's actually important and you want, you want to have a good. Why? Because doing this stuff is not easy. And you want to think of, like, what's the message? If you already had. If you already had a million followers, what would be your message to. Right, because whatever that mess, and if the answer is I don't know, then, you know, have, have a think about that and think what it is. What is it that you're offering people? How are you helping people? Are you improving their health, their wealth, their happiness? What is it that you, are you offering entertainment? Like, what is it that you want to get out there to people? I think it's important for people to be clear on that. And then secondly is to, you know, be, you know, to start once you've got that right, to just start and understand that it's not going to be perfect to begin with, but you can improve over time, and you will improve over time. And to do that, you need to put stuff out there, I would say, you know, and then in terms of, you know, in terms of execution, be consistent and persevere. Be consistent and persevere. If you're consistent and you persevere, you. You will reach some level of success in almost anything. Like, as long as you are not totally just terrible at the thing, then with enough time and with consistency, you can get good at. You can get good at almost anything, right? Anybody. Anybody can, I don't know, learn Russian, right? Like, I can learn Russian, you can learn Russian, but it takes consistency and it takes perseverance. It's not going to happen immediately. It's going to take time, it's going to be difficult. You need to be diligent. But. But you can do it. You could learn how to play an instrument. You could learn how to do, you know, things. Things are learnable and you learn by repetition. So those would be a few of the sort of key things that I would mention to people. But. But definitely know why, know why you want to do it and know what you even want to. What you even want to say. Like, why, why do you. Even if you're trying to grow a platform, you're trying to grow an audience. Like, why?

Yeah, because the purpose is what gives you that fuel to keep pushing when things get tough, right? When you have a strong why, it's like it gives you that motivation to stay consistent and keep on track when you veer off. Exactly. For you, mate, I'm sure there's a certain level of standard that you've created in yourself around your life and your habits, your routines and rituals that's allowed you to continue to maintain the consistency Right. The why is important, but then it's actually okay. What are the standards that we insert into the way we live that allow us to show up day in, day out? Has there been any core habits or. A few. Maybe there's a handful of things that have allowed you to continue to, to show up in a way that allows this creativity to flow through in such a powerful way. Yeah, Anything that jumps out of you main habits or things that just healthy living, healthy eating, sleep, like, you know, what would be your go to if you were to say, this had the biggest impact on my life?

Yeah, man. I would say taking care of your body and your mind, you know, these things are integrated. And it's amazing how many people totally overlook or abandon their physical health. Right. And it's weird when people. There's a lot of talk of mental health these days and it's like people don't realize how strongly connected to physical health that is. Right. If you're feeling mentally unhealthy, you're feeling very anxious, you're feeling a bit depressed, or you're just feeling lethargic or whatever it is unmotivated. My first question is to be is like, you know, what are you eating? How often are you exercising? What does your training routine look like? How much are you sleeping? How much water are you drinking? Those would be my first questions. You know, I'm not what pills are you taking or what this or what that. It's like, you know, get your health sorted, get your relationships sorted, be doing something that's purposeful and things that you enjoy. Spend time with people you like and who inspire you and who motivate you. If you're surrounded by people who are just dragging you down and making you feel bad constantly. This, this is both online and offline, by the way. So you get people who are like, oh, Twitter is terrible. Like, Twitter is horrible. It's like, well, stop following hundreds of people who are just spewing garbage all day long. If that's all you're reading and all you're seeing, of course you're gonna feel negative, right? Like, unfollow them. Go and follow people who inspire you and who motivate you and whatever goes for all social media. What YouTube videos are you watching? What music are you listening? Are you listening to stuff that just makes you feel depressed and anxious and angry at the world? Are you sitting there watching like the news every night and just getting all riled up over the latest nonsense or whatever? If you're doing that, then of course you're Depressed, that's not surprising. You're supposed to be so, you know, get, get out of that. And, you know, going to the gym has been a keystone habit for me for most of my life now. So going to the gym is like, yeah, it's, it's medicinal. It's, it's really, it's really, really important. So I'd say it is like one keystone habit. Being consistent with the gym and being pretty consistent with my nutrition, I think those are very fundamental and it really helps with everything else. And even with energy levels, right, I have more energy than a lot of people do because I'm eating right and I'm training well so my body can keep going, my mind can keep going. I can have a rigorous schedule and keep going and not get knackered out or get sick or whatever it is. So I recommend people actually start there.

Epic, man. And I would second that. I can definitely attest to the benefits of taking care of the mind and body, mate. Where can people learn more about you, what you've been up to right now? Online, and you've got the podcast, social media, what's on the horizon for you?

Yeah, sure. So people can find me on pretty much everything. If you go to my website, zoobymusic.com z u b y music.com you've got the links to everything there. My music and my podcasts are available on the usual channels, iTunes, YouTube, Spotify, etc. Just search for Zooby Z u B Y and you can find both my music and my podcasts and I'm on all social media, zubymusic Z u B y music on all channels. And yeah, like I said, people can expect more of everything I do. I'm looking to release a new album next year, so finally gonna get some brand new music. I am putting out my new podcast every single Friday. Real Talk with Zooby drops every Friday. And yeah, once we get back to normal life can start doing some more gigs and public speaking events and things like that. But we might have to wait another. Wait another few months for that.

Yeah, it's looking that way, mate. I really appreciate you taking the time to jump on here and have this conversation, mate. You drop some nuggets of wisdom and I'm sure the people who are ready to receive or need to receive what you shared will take it on board. So thanks again, mate. Really appreciate you coming on the podcast.

It's a pleasure, Jordan. Anytime.

Hey, there we have it, guys. Thanks so much for listening to this episode. And yeah, look, if you made it this far cool. Here's my voice again in your ear and I'm gonna make one more request for you is go ahead and subscribe and leave a comment on the podcast page because I'm really putting a lot of focus and attention on getting this podcast out to more people because I know what I'm putting in here can serve and bring value to people. And it would mean a lot if you got value from this too, to leave some feedback and subscribe. So you stay up to date with what's coming up and as always, follow me on Instagram and love hearing from you. It's eight shifters until the next episode. Guys, thank you so much and I appreciate you.