SSP 072: Ryan Mannion - Life Lessons: From Books to the Real-World

Welcome back. Jordan Candlish here. Stay Shifters podcast. This is really the place. This is the place. If you're showing up to the State Shifters podcast on a regular basis, I tell you what, there's some really powerful information getting downloaded into your consciousness. So thank you so much for being here. I've been loving sharing this content with you guys and I'm just really grateful for people like yourself who are on this journey too, and I just want to acknowledge you for that. So if you're really starting to gather some momentum in your journey, you want to go to that next level, let's have a conversation like, seriously, that's where it's at. When you can go deeper in a conversation with someone, growth gets accelerated. Trust me. On today's episode, speaking of growth, on today's episode, I bring on a friend, Ryan Mannion. We connected via Instagram and we connected over a shared passion. And that shared passion is personal development, reading, books, learning. And one of the biggest challenges I had when I first started out on this journey where I was just a sponge absorbing all this information from books and things I was, I was listening to and watching, was retaining that information because a lot of it, if you're like me, it was just coming at such a rapid rate. I wasn't able to retain some key parts or key elements in the journey. So when Ryan comes into picture with the company they've created is they're helping people retain more information through reminders of key points that you're learning in your books that you're reading. I know this is a game changer. This really is. I can't wait to really implement this in my learning going forward. But Ryan will explain more about how it works and what it's about. But I just really enjoyed connecting with Ryan and having a really in depth conversation about our journey so far. He's such an awesome dude. And be sure to check these guys on Instagram. They're crushing it. They're sharing some really epic content and some really big things coming out of what they're doing. So without further ado, guys, enjoy this episode with Ryan Manion.

Welcome to the State Shifters Podcast, a show dedicated to helping you discover your true potential through connecting the mind, body and soul.

Okay, I've got Ryan Mannion with me on the Stage Shifters podcast. My man. How you doing?

Going great, man. It's a pleasure to be on your podcast.

Yeah, good to have you on here, man. And I've really enjoyed crossing paths with you. We hopped on a call a couple of weeks back. And connected. And I'm really excited to just share with my audience what you guys have been up to over there at the Book Thinkers Nation and just resonate with everything you're doing and the way you're showing up in the world. You usually get up early, mate. 5.30am It's 8.30 right now where you are. Maybe give us a rundown on what a normal morning routine looks like for you, mate.

Sure, yeah. Like I said, I really appreciate having you on. I've been following your work over the last several months. I also resonate with what you're doing. I have a life coach myself and there's no greater foundation in my life than that relationship and what I'm learning from that relationship. But yeah, man, we're similar to you. We're just young guys, we're personal development junkies. You know, I just turned 29. He My partner Nick, he's 27. He's the man behind the Instagram page. And we found a niche and we think we've been exploring that niche in the personal development book space. It all goes back to a time when he was 22 years old. I was 24, I wanted to go out to the club. I was at his place with a bunch of people and he decided to stay in and finish a book. And when he did that, it was kind of an eye opening experience for me. And being a personal development self help junkie myself, I started to explore books at that point, starting with Audible because that was the easiest way for me to consume the information. And it just led to this incredible path in business development where I made a ton of money in seven years in one role and following my purpose in life, which is giving back to people through Book Thinkers, which is an amazing technology. I'd be happy to talk more about.

Yeah, man, I'm really excited and eager to learn more about it myself because I feel like anyone who starts off on their personal development journey, it's always like that one book or that one few books that sparks something. And I remember for me, man, when I started out it was Eckhart Tolle's book A New Earth. It was one of the first books that I really absorbed and something shifted in me and I remember this like drive to just want to like absorb more and more information. I was flying through books so quickly that I've actually, since now, later on in my journey, gone back and reread a lot of the books that I read back when I first started out when I was 21. And that's where Your you guys come into play here because it's very fascinating around what you've created with the business and the mission behind what you guys are doing. I would love to hear more about that and how you've kind of overlapped sort of that predicament where if someone's flying through books and the information is not sticking or the key information is not sticking, you guys have kind of stepped in and found a way to support that. Am I correct?

Yeah. And I appreciate you, man. And I appreciate everyone in the community that is developing themselves, like myself and Nick. There's a lot of people who are into self development. I mean, our page is almost 100,000 people now and it's all self development junkies and there's many more than 100,000 on this planet. That's only the people who have identified us at this point. But yeah, it's funny, I watched that video of yours and you did it on April 22. I saw it before we got on here. And you talked about how when you're reading books, you're forgetting a lot of your biggest takeaways. And that is truly the foundation of why we created this product. We've been engaged in the community for about four years now and we also had that experience. And although books and the information was very helpful and relevant in the moment, there should be a longer relationship with those takeaways because depending on what kind of state or what perspective you may have in that moment, that takeaway means something very different to you. And so books are just a very powerful tool for learning that I think will become more and more popular, which is like a form of independent learning basically right outside of the school systems. So like our mission, our deepest mission is to globally administer learning technologies that when applied with personal development books, you know, you could learn that much more. So it's like, I think the key is that it's not a structured kind of universal way of learning through like a school system infrastructure, but away at independent learning. Anything you want to learn to accomplish anything that you set for yourself through books. But the only issue with books is that it's a singular experience. And so we're applying learning technology in the form of our mobile app to learn more. Because you do forget a lot. And that's the premise of what we're doing.

Yeah, totally, man. And I guess that's the downside to some of these books, right? There's so much, there's a wealth of information in there, but like, there might be like one or two few key points that Might stick depending on that point in time and that point in your journey. Right, so maybe walk us through, like how does the app work? Like, how can someone start to utilize this technology and maybe apply it?

Yeah, man, this stuff gets me fired up because I use it in my life and still do and it's so helpful to me. So I'll quickly describe our product and it's very simple actually. It's a mobile application. It's available ON Android and iOS and it's a home. So it's basically a virtual bookshelf. It's a home where you can store and organize all of your book titles, whether it's from Audible, physical books, ebooks, you store all your book titles and then if you'd like, you store your biggest takeaways from each individual book. So you finish a book, you plug your takeaways in, it takes you like 15 minutes at the end of a five hour read. And now you have a place where it's organized. So that's like number one key feature to remembering information is have an organized location for it. The second biggest feature is the reminders. And so it's following a theory. It's called the forgetfulness curve. It's a scientific theory that when you get pulsed with the information incrementally over time, you have a far higher propensity to retain that information, implement it in your life. And so our cadence is literally the scientific theory. And so you're getting pulse with the information on your favorite books and your probability of retaining it goes from like 6% to like 60% if you follow this cadence. So either one, I mean, and then there's also people. It's just a great platform to organize their notes. And so like I go into a leadership meeting, right, and I review my good to great notes from Jim Collins and I feel that much more prepared to understand my beliefs and principles heading into that meeting. I mean, I've literally had negotiations where I have my negotiation book up on our mobile app. And I'm just remembering like listening is key, you know, these like very small intangible items. And I've had so much success with multi million dollar deals closing them because of that. But I want to touch on one more thing which is like this reminder queue. And by the way, like I'm just a big advocate of books, like right next to me here, I put a lot of my favorite books, if you're curious at all. But you may be familiar with this book.

Sure am. Yeah.

Classic life coach Steve Chandler. And so one of my takeaways Sashan at Spoon of consciousness. One of our buddies here, he made me read this book, and it was an amazing book. And one of my biggest takeaways was that people are put on this planet for two reasons. To be loved and aroused. And you have no idea how many times, like, the girl I'm hanging out with, right? So we're having a conversation. Let's say we're maybe we're drinking and it starts to escalate a little bit. Like there's emotions involved in the conversation. And I have thought of that in my mind because I keep pulsing myself with the information. And so naturally I just know, like, she's just looking to be loved or aroused. And so, like, conversation deflates itself. Like a new topic is created or whatever. She's smiling, I'm smiling, and like, everything's good. And it's like it never happened. So just those little takeaways, man, when they're in your mind, you're acting on them subconsciously.

Yeah, dude, that's a crazy statistic, man. From 6 to 60% retention, like, that's. That's huge. And I was speaking about this the other day in a video that I did. Like, sometimes I just got a whiteboard in my office just because I like brain dumping information out of my mind and just having it like, you know, set up properly so I can just like refresh and just see where I'm at. But reading a books, the exact same. Like, I often highlight the books. Like when I read, I highlight a lot of stuff, but I often won't go back and revisit it. So it's sort of like the information that I know is important is there, but I'm just not getting that reminder. So I sort of see like this app being sort of like the extension of your brain around. Okay, this is. These are these important things I want to remember. And it's that reminder that it's just available to you all the time, which I think is absolutely key.

And yeah, I think some people like reading books. And like, that's awesome if you just want to read a book. But if you also want to take notes, no one actually revisits their notes in the book. So you need a system for doing that, right?

Yeah, a hundred percent. So if someone has a physical book and they're reading it and highlighting, they would. Then if there's a keynote that comes up, they would pull out the app and then just take a photo of the highlight or type it in. Like, how would that work?

Yeah, I appreciate that question. Man, we don't have to talk about my product the entire time. Well, I'm.

Dude, I'm eager because I'm going to be a user of this. So I'm trying to get, I'm trying to scratch my own itch here.

Yeah, man. So the way I use it is, you know, I'm highlighting my biggest takeaways as I go through the book and then when I finish the book. So as I highlight a takeaway, I then jot down the page number on the back page and then I go back to it. And if it's like a big takeaway, then I'll go back to it, see the highlight, and I'll plug it into my app. But you could also just. As you go, you know, as you get a takeaway, you could just plug it directly into the app. Gotcha.

Cool, cool.

Part about reading, which I've learned a lot about, is active reading.

Mmm.

So the more you're like in a state of focus and you're actively reading and consuming the information, you also have a far higher propensity to retain that information and actually like improve your reading comprehension. So I try to do that and then at the end I just focus on the takeaways and it's a quick experience.

Cool. Cool. Yeah, I love it, mate. I must ask, what's been some of the three key major groundbreaking books that have shaped who you are and who you've become? I have like three book recommendations that you would say change your life.

By the way, I love that you're standing right now.

I wish I was standing desk Game changer man. Absolutely. Game changer books that changed my life.

Well, it's a good thing I brought these next to me here. So this, you know, if you're into finance, a lot of people have heard of Robert Kiyosaki and a lot of people have read Rich Dad, Poor dad, which I think is a great kind of conceptual book. It's probably you probably want to read Rich Dad, Poor dad before you get into Cash Flow Quadrant. But Cash flow Quadrant really taught me the difference. You know, I was very successful in sales and I was going to create a rep sales rep business, but then I'd always be working for myself. Right. It's like a self employed service based business. So I started to look at the differences between that and like a product based business, like a brand. And that's when I decided to go down the book thinkers avenue. So it really quadrants out. Like the difference between a business, kind of a self employed business, an employee and an investor and the different pros and cons of each of those quadrants which I think is super valuable for anybody. Like there's a lot of very happy and very smart people who are in like a service based business, self employed that are going to work until they're 70. But I'm hoping that I'll create systems so my life may be a little easier but never works that way. The other book I love is Living in Flow by Sky Nelson Isaacs. The science of synchronicity and how your choices shape your world. I think that's pretty self explanatory but basically it's saying that you know how you're reacting to like the cosmos in the world is how they're reacting to you. So how your reacting to and experiencing your external environment is the experience you're receiving in return. So the very, very. I mean this is the coolest book ever. I love this book and not many people have heard about it or read it. Yeah, yeah, man. In the last book, you know, this is a long read but there's a lot you can implement. From Awaken the Giant within by Tony Robbins. Come on.

Right here, bro. Yeah, long read but definitely worth it. That one, there's, that's just, just one of the cornerstones of personal development, isn't it?

Here it is.

Yeah, yeah. Go on, please share it.

This book is brand new. Wire Within Buying two. Just an amazing. You read it.

Got the audio version of that one and actually came from one of the posts you guys shared. I seen your review of it in the post and you said it was one of the best books you've read this year and I was like, cool, I'll give it a go. And the audio version is great. Just his poetry is phenomenal.

It's phenomenal. Yeah, it breaks you down for sure.

Yeah, big time. Big time. So mate, I'm. I'm curious to know. Yeah. Oh yeah, here we go. The Happy Mind.

Happy Mind by Kevin Horsley.

Yeah.

Small. This is literally a hundred, hundred pages and it's just about decluttering your mind. And you know, part of having a happy mind is having a clear mind and unpacking, getting rid of a lot of the stuff that's bogging you up. So I really love that book as well.

Yeah, big time. And I'm curious to know, do you. Cause like I recommend a lot of books to clients. You know, when I'm having conversations and coaching calls with people, I'll always reference back to books supporting the conversation. We've just Had. But some books are always referred to the audio over the actual physical copy. Do you have certain books where you prefer the audio over the hard copy?

Yeah. I specifically love sales books, especially Grant Cardone books. People, you know, there's. People are torn on some of his stuff. But I really enjoyed his sales books and I really love them in audio because he just makes the experience that much, that much more exciting.

Yeah. You feel his energy.

Yeah, exactly. Have you read them?

Yeah, yeah, I loved it, man. 10x rule. That was one of the. Mate, 10x rules. That was one of the first ones I read. Listen to just get you fired up. I remember listening to at the gym and just being like, man, this guy is getting me going.

I remember. Yeah, yeah, he gets really fired up.

David Goggins audiobook. You listen to that one?

No. Do you like it?

Oh, man. You haven't listened to Can't Hurt Me by David Goggins?

I did, but actually you're right. Yeah. I listened to the audible form of that. Yeah, it is.

That was amazing. Yeah, mate. I remember listening to that book coming home. You know, when I just started my coaching business, I was living in Toronto. I was not making very much money. I was getting public transport in minus 30 degrees, standing outside waiting for the bus to show up, freezing, absolutely freezing, and listening to Goggins in my ear. And he got me through some real challenging times. Just when I was like, my mind was like complaining, but then hearing about some of his stories around how he got through the hell week and things like that was just like, if anyone's gone through a hard time, listen to Can't Hurt Me by David Goggins. It will get you through it.

That's amazing, man. So what are your favorite books?

Yeah, it really depends, man. It depends on different stages in my journey. Different books have had really profound impacts. Like I mentioned at the start, like A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle just hit me at like a really pivotal moment in my life where I was like, just finished my degree, I had a graduate job lined up at Deloitte and I was having doubts, but I didn't know, like, I didn't know what my purpose was. I didn't know too much about, like, hey, if I don't do accounting, what am I going to do? And Eckhart's book kind of opened up a different dimension to life. You know, a lot of us are stuck in this like horizontal dimension to living, right? The time element, the mind based living. And his book is all about the opposite, the vertical Dimension, going beyond the mind, accessing the present moment. And when we access that, it was like, for me, it was just opened up a whole different way of perceiving the world. So great. A big shift. So that one was a big one, main one. I recommend man is Letting Go by David Hawkins. That. That book just hit me. Have you read it? We'll listen to it.

I have it on my bookshelf. I haven't read it yet.

Yeah. Yes, it struck me. The audio version just. Just hit me. I've gone back and listened to it six or seven times over the last four years. And yeah, I recommend that. That's the first book I recommend to clients. Just because the way he breaks it down, letting go of emotions, because everything we want is on the other side of the emotions we're afraid to feel. So it was just like this letting go process was like, right, I just have to surrender to the. The internal blocks that I have around me receiving, whether it's the money, the relationship, whatever it is that we want to create. So that was a big one. I'm just going off the top of my head here. Whatever's coming through. I would say another major one would be Vishen Lakhiani's first book. The Code of the Extraordinary Mind. Hit me at a key moment in time in my life as well. Just as I was at the crossroads of leaving my corporate job. That book just really gave me inspiration to know that, yeah, I'm not the only one thinking like this, you know. So, yeah, his book was real groundbreaking for me too. But yeah, as you know, like, you got the spirituality, business, finance, like, there's a lot of finance books. Is that resonated with me too? But I feel like the spirituality or personal development books really just, I don't know, they allow you. They give you the internal tools to help shift your. Your perspective, to get you to that next level where, you know, some books are more for the mind, others are more for the soul. You know what I mean?

Yeah, dude, I love that. I'm very much in this soul full of books. That's a lot of my top soulful books. But the other ones have a huge impact as well. You know what I love is you're reading these books, right? And in the moment, it's having an impact on you. And so, like, I'll never discredit someone who just enjoys to read for their own development and won't use, like a learning technology like ours. Like, it's like, good for you, man. Like, yeah, that's awesome. You're a minority person that's investing in yourself. So, like, first and foremost, we're pioneering for authors because we just think there's so many awesome takeaways in all of these books.

Yeah, epic, man. I love it. And where are you guys based out of right now? Where are you?

Where are you?

Where are you coming from?

And by the way, Vishen Lock Yan, we just had him on our podcast.

Oh, there we go, man. Hitting the big names, man. Shit, there you go.

We have some really cool. We have Kamal Ravikant. Most recently in the business world, we had Michael E. Gerber. Both the Cardones, you know, near ial. Howard Berg, the world's fastest reader, talk about it. If you want to learn something in a podcast, follow book Thinkers Life Changing Books podcast with Howard Berg. Oh, my God. So this is a Guinness World's fastest reader. But he also retains all the information that he reads. So it's like, I mean, it's like this incredible dichotomy between speed reading and retention. And he talks about all the steps of that process on our podcast.

Wow. Yeah, I'm check that out. It sounds super interesting. Yes. You guys are nailing some, getting some big name guests on the podcast, man. And how have you been feeling about kind of the evolution of the business, but also the evolution of yourself? Because like you mentioned, to start, you've been, you've been getting coached for a few months now. You have a lot. Your own life coach. And how have you found this process of engaging in personal development and how that's translating into the growth of a business and a platform?

Yeah, well, I really appreciate life coaches generally. Like, I really like your work, I really like Sachin's work, but I'm sure there's like several others that I'm just not aware of that offer great wisdom. And really at the end of the day, it's enabling myself or creating an environment where I can use my wisdom. So it's like, it's like breaking down all of these thoughts and just converting it into like, okay, now my wisdom, which I know is pretty spot on, is now starting to seep itself into the world and create success. So like, for me, I just, I always was a high achiever and that's why Sachin kind of linked in with me. It's because he saw that in me and I realized I kind of had to let go of this perspective where, you know, I want to grow things really fast because as a business owner, I'm realizing that patience is key. Yeah, it truly is like that's the one thing. Two things I'm learning is one is patience is key, and the second is that there's no rule book. So you can read as many books as you want, but at the end of the day, you have to use your own wisdom and do what you believe is right and just have that conviction. And then, you know, have great people in your. Your space, in your network, and sifting through those people to make sure they're the right people. But, you know, having great people as well to help help guide you. But at the end of the day, it's a you thing, you know, no one's going to create it for you, and there's no rulebook or blueprint on how to do it.

Yeah, well said. And I've really taken a lot of that on board recently myself as well, around, you know, making decisions. Yeah, we can read a lot of things in the book, in a book, but then learning how to tap into our own intuition and trusting our own inner guidance a lot of the times requires us to put the mind to the side for a second and listen to, like, an inner feeling, like a calling. And you can't really learn that in the book. I mean, you can, you can get guidance to that, but ultimately you have to learn how to tap into that and discover that yourself. And I'm curious to know what that process has looked like for you. Has there been some sort of process that's allowed you to, you know, when you don't need the mind put to the side and trust kind of your intuition?

Yeah, I appreciate the question. And the fun thing about these conversations, and it's actually a core kind of issue of mine, is that, you know, I'm getting on these podcasts and I know that I've done a lot in my life. I had a lot of challenges growing up. And so, like, I've overcame lot and I'm in a great position today, but it's like, who would listen to me, you know, why would you listen to me? And so that's part of the fun thing about these podcasts is like, I hope people actually hear me out and, and hopefully some of these things will help them. So one thing for me is I actually, I create this ideas. So I try to get organized as much as I can. Right. It's either a system or it's a belief. I took that away from crazy good, but I have this systems. So we're learning a ton from books and we're implementing that into our business or our personal life. And one of those Is this book essentialism by Greg McKeown is an amazing book and just a great podcast actually with Nick at Book Thinkers Life Changing Books Podcast. But the big takeaway is that, you know, I have this ideas note now in my phone and so. Alright, so let me take a step back. So we have this graphic that we work on every month and it's the Essentialist graphic. And there's three circles. There's an inner circle, a middle circle and an outer circle. In that inner circle is the number one biggest item to work on in the business that's going to create the most progress or momentum. The second circle are the one or two items in your personal life that need to be a focus or priority of yours. So for me it's like my life coaching exercises and it's my favorite. And then you got the third circle, which is what are three or four other very important items in the business that you need to work on this month need to happen. And so, you know, when you frame it that way, you only have six or seven items and you're always working from the innermost circle out and you're always tapping into what's most essential. And then you know this. So the, the importance of this is that it happens every month and then you go into the next month and you create a whole new graphic and you can do it together with your partner. And so anything that's outside of that circle is an idea. And it's an idea that I then put into a note on my phone so that at the end of the month I'm revisiting these ideas and saying, okay, which of these ideas ties into what's most essential this month and which of these ideas is outside of that. But at all times I have a running note on my phone with all of my greatest ideas. And so like, I don't know about you, I see you go for walks a lot. I enjoy going for walks and thinking with a clear head. And I'm just jogging these ideas only to revisit them at the end of the month. So I think for me that's the most important thing that we're doing.

Dude, I love that. I absolutely love that. I have read that book, the Essentialism. I had a big impact on me as well. Dude, that's such a good point. Like, so just to reiterate, circle in the middle is like, what is most essential and what would that show up for someone like say family, you know, self connection time?

Yeah, yeah. It's an important exercise, I think, for everybody, especially if you're in your own business. So the first one for us as an example is branding. So, like, it's the most critical kind of corporate element to grow your own business. So for us, that's branding. And the second circle, that's where it's all personal, you know, that's where you're really focused. I mean, you could change it up, right? It's basically just like the prioritization. You know, you gotta prioritize something. And then what's the second most priority, which. Which is in the second circle. And then what's your exterior priority, which is in the third circle? So the first circle is like one item, which for me is a business item. The second circle is a family and kind of fun circle with two items. And then the third circle, there's three or four items that relate to the business. But then the key is that anything that's outside of the circle doesn't get revisited until next month.

Mm.

So, like, if you were to come in and say, hey man, I think you really need to invest some more time and intellectual property discovery, I'd be like, yeah, dude, I totally agree. Let me get your feedback. I throw it in my ideas note and I placehold it for next month because it's not in my essentialist graphic.

Really cool. And you're checking it and you have time put aside each month to check in with all the ideas that have been noted to see if they now fit into the circle.

Yeah, it's just like it's one of our walks, right? I go, I do a 90 minute walk. It's that walk. Except instead of extracting from my head, I'm basically extracting from my notes into my mind to see when I can apply it.

I love that. Yeah, man, that's amazing. That's really, really cool. And I guess like within this journey that you've been on now, where you're now integrating lessons from books that you're reading, the coaching that you're receiving, and then applying that into a business kind of structure. Has there been anyone who has supported you in terms of the growth of the business around, like a mentor, obviously getting coached around, more of the life stuff. But from a business lens, has there been someone you look up to or you've reached out to that has really supported you in the growth of this.

The growth of the brand? Definitely. And I kind of want to hear from your perspective as well with your business. I think that'd be interesting for your audience. But for us, there's a guy, Kevin Horsley, he is the. And there's a lot of people who like, you know, when you start to get in that circle with the authors and stuff, there's actually a lot of people who are empowering you. Where I found like a lot of my friend groups and stuff are a little bit disempowering sometimes not to their fault, they don't mean anything by it. But yeah, there's a guy kept Horsley, he's the grand master of memory. So three time author. But the grandmaster of memory thing is really cool. So basically he was given this achievement, this certification and you have to go through a series of tests and one of them is you have to memorize PI or the first 10,000 digits of PI. So someone can recite like 10 digits and he has to then say what are the next 10 digits? So it's just a crazy. The guy's like very bright and he grew up with some learning challenges and so he overcame those and became one of the best learners in the world. But one of the things he preaches is spaced repetition, which is the technology in our app. Right. That's what pulses you with the information. So he preaches spaced repetition as a learning technology and we meet with him every, every week and he's just an amazing guy.

Yeah.

If you want to learn from somebody, definitely Kevin Horsley. He's got two books. One of them is the Happy Mind and the other one's unlimited memory.

Yeah, I'm familiar with a memory book called Moonwalking with Einstein. Have you read, listened to that or read that before?

I haven't, but it came very highly referred by somebody like Bill Gates.

Yeah, it's by Joshua 4, I believe. Yeah, similar, similar kind of, I guess probably overlapping principles around memory retention. He was one of the world, world memory champs. And just hearing about that kind of process of how they go about learning and the mind, the memory palace, the mind palace. Does he talk about that as well? Where you kind of to remember something, you kind of create visualization of you walking through your house and having seeing different like symbols throughout the house that trigger certain memories. Super effective, super effective.

I love that. Yeah, there's definitely several techniques. Like what we've created in the app is one technique. But it's very cool to really tap into the memory side of things. Like he always talks about you only remember what you think about. Like it's kind of true, you know, once you got great systems in place.

Totally. And then pulling from letting go book, he reiterates what you hold in mind tends to Manifest. So what you're holding in mind, like you're going to start seeing that in your reality and then the other, you call it the reticular activating system or whatever. But what if you're continuously repeating. Your mind is like scanning for that in your physical world. So, yeah, I agree, probably, yeah. What you're trying to remember, I guess the more you're repeating it in your mind, the more it's going to stick. Probably the ones that show up.

Yeah, for sure. And like I think something that's important, I don't know how much more time we have. I think something that's important is like who we are, our mission is important, our product is important. But it all, it all starts with who you are. Right. So like I've always led my life based on whatever my heart is kind of guiding me with. And so there's. I want to distinguish what that means because a lot of people think that means like you're leading with your gut, but gut is more of like an impulsive form of decision making that's valuable in certain points but also not valuable in many areas. And then you could also lead with your brain. Right. Which is just based on logic, which usually backs some of my decisions. But I always lead with my heart. And so for me, what this means is like when I'm knowing something about myself. So like when I'm applying some of these exercises in books, I'm realizing over time if I keep telling myself something like it, I'm starting to build a conviction and I'm always going to go down that path. So like, you know, the business, to me, I never really wanted to be a business owner as much as I knew in cash flow quadrant is a good decision. Like it's a very unknown path with an unknown reward. That's very improbable. Right. But you got to follow what, what your heart is telling you in order to feel fulfilled in my mind. So that's why, you know, if you take it way back, it's like I think I just was blessed. Even though I had a challenging childhood, you know, my mom always led with her heart. And I was a product of a single mother and she was just doing that time and time again. And it led to a lot of happiness in my life because she would do that. And so that's kind of what I've led into my life and now into the book thinkers business. And that's something I would share with anyone as being like the number one area of kind of self improvement is just following your Heart and not having fear hold you back.

Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Totally resonate. 100% resonant. It's not always easy. Sometimes, you know, sometimes our head has a different. A different path that wants to go. And I'm pulling from all these different books now. Maybe it's just your energy giving off. Maybe you're triggering. All these books that I read that have gave me such great timely advice at key moments in my life. But one book that I remember reading was called the Road Less Traveled by my Robert Peck. I remember. Are you familiar with that book?

I'm not, no.

Yeah, it's a classic spirituality book talking about how when you start to follow your heart, oftentimes it's taking you on a path that not very many people have gone down. And I remember at the time reading that, it struck a chord with me because here in Perth, Western Australia, there's not too many. Perth is not a very big entrepreneur driven state. You know, people go and get corporate jobs and they live pretty good lives out here. There's not too much of an entrepreneurial drive. And I remember when I started to look into my heart and tap into my heart and feel what I wanted to do, which was to share and create content and stand out there, I was really embarrassed. I was really shy and scared of doing that because it was the road less traveled because none of my friends were doing it. My friends were used to me being the guy that played soccer and worked at Deloitte. And, you know, that was me. You know, you kind of didn't branch out of the regular bubble that you're in. And following your heart is again, it's uncomfortable and scary, but ultimately, you know, you wouldn't want to have it any other way. Like, I feel like now is the time where if you lean into your edge, lean into, like what feels uncomfortable, and you follow that feeling instead of listening to, like a limiting story that says, nah, don't do it. Your friends might judge you or you might not make as much money or whatever, and you just like follow the feeling which usually comes from. From your heart and discerning that from the feeling from the gut. Life always takes care of you. That's. That's what I've learned from deciding, from now on, I'm just gonna follow my heart instead of my head. I've always been taken care of, even in times where my mind is like, you're a fucking idiot. Don't do that. That is stupid decision. It felt right in the moment and I did it and I was Always taken care of. I'll give you one example of that. Just to keep going here. When I first arrived in Toronto, I was looking for a job. You know, I just quit my corporate job. I flew out there and I was following my heart, you know, what I was gonna do for work. I was like, right, I know I want to work in personal development in the health and wellness industry, but I don't know like how that looks. And I was searching for weeks and weeks to try and find a job. Nothing, nothing doing. And I started to get a little bit anxious and panicky about like, fuck, I'm running out of money here. I got to find work. So I started applying for like, more like accounting, you know, accounting jobs in the finance and accounting game again. Got through to the last round of this interview for this accounting startup firm and I was at the same time interviewing for this Healing Clinic, this alternative medicine clinic in Toronto. Ideal job. It was exactly what my heart wanted. It was like the perfect thing. So I remember on the same day I got two job offers from each company, the accounting firm, they said, yep, we want to hire you. You know, this startup firm. The starting salary was like 70k plus commission on sales. It was a sales based role, would have been around 100k per year starting like in earnings. The other job offer that I got from the Healing Clinic was an administration role earning minimum wage, which in Canada is $14 an hour. And that would have had me earning close to 20, 30 grand a year. And I remember looking at these two fucking offers, man, and obviously my mind's like, take, take the job with the more money. Like you've just come to Toronto, this is gonna like make your life a lot more comfortable. Well, my heart was like, this is the whole reason why I came out here was to work in a career that I loved, to find fulfillment, to follow my passions. Much debate. Well, it actually wasn't that much debate. I was like, gotta take the minimum wage. And mate, since that decision had one of the biggest life altering trajectories. And it's ultimately what like probably why I'm here now standing, talking to you as a coach, running my own business because of that decision. But yeah, I wanted to share that. I don't think I've really told too many people about that story, but it just came through me, man. But yeah, I'm glad you mentioned following the heart. I totally agree.

Yeah, I love that. And it could be very simple, right? It could be like whatever, following your heart in that you should cook dinner more often, like you know, it doesn't have to be like, oh, I'm gonna take this entrepreneurial path, but very small decisions in which you follow your heart every day and kind of get rid of the fear. I love that story, man. Yeah. If book thinkers ever blows up, you can remember that I made the decision based on a gust of wind that came to me as I was going for a run one day.

Tell me more about this hat. Like, tell me more about, like a key moment in your life where we, you know, like I just mentioned those fork in the roads where it's decision where it's either going to take you this way or that way. And the two. There's two totally different futures. Yeah. Has there been one key moment for you that stands out?

Yeah. I mean, I like talking about exercises that kind of enable these things. So, like, there was an exercise, right. That Grant Cardone pitched in one of his books that every day you write down one thing you're grateful for and one goal that you have. I did that for 365 days. And, you know, I did have an accountability partner in that process and whatever, you know, you can implement exercise if you want. But the why, really, you know, what really happened is because I had a form of conviction. So, like, one day I went. I went on a run and I knew I was in the process of quitting, going full time into book thinkers and becoming a co founder, which, you know, had some investment involved and blah, blah, blah. So I just went for this run, man, and I was thinking about, thinking about, I stopped. I was in Boston. That's where we're located. And I was like, man, I'm gonna do it. Like, I'm gonna take the leap. And like, I was making, you know, I was making almost $400,000 working directly for a CEO who was an amazing person for a half a billion dollar company. And I was like, dude, anyone else at the age of 28 would be like, yo, that is the greatest job ever, man. And so I went for a run. I had this strong gust of wind, and I'm a little, you know, I'm a spiritual guy. So I was like, man, that gust of wind is meaningful. Like, that's coming from my dad or my grandfather, you know, it was like one of the heaviest gusts of winds I've ever been hit by. And at that point is when I made the decision, which was very uncomfortable because I worked for someone who's like my closest mentor. He's basically a father figure to me and had everything really good. So, yeah, man, it was like, that spiritual time, and I was like, you know what? I know what's right. It's gonna be really weird and uncomfortable, but we're gonna go for it.

Man. That's huge. That's huge. And there's one thing that kind of comes through within these decisions, right? There's an element of faith and trust required when you take a leap of faith like that. And I'm curious to get your perspective on this. Like, where do you think the faith muscle is strengthened? Because you don't just step away from opportunities like that. If you don't have some sort of faith in something greater than you, that's. That's showing you the way or guiding you or, you know, taking care of you. How has that developed for you?

Well, for me, it's developed. I'm lucky. Like, I would love your. It's such a great question. I love your perspective on it. For me, I was. You know, I was born. My father passed when I was 7. I had a single mother and a younger brother, and I ended up having a really great childhood. And it's like my house is being foreclosed on. You know, like, my mom was crying over the bills, you know, that she couldn't pay. And I was the man of the house who was kind of, like, empathizing with it all at the age of, like, I don't know, maybe 10. And so, you know, we just got hit with this massive thing, and I kind of was put in this position to see all these things and support as much as I could, and we ended up overcoming all of it. Right? It was like the house didn't end up getting foreclosed on. You know, me not having a father figure ended up being a great benefit to me. And so, like, my brother had some very crazy experiences that I don't want to get into. But, like, through all of the crazy and chaos, my mom followed her heart, put us in good positions. I followed mine. Like, I just lived a life of conviction, kindness, and once you start to overcome that stuff, you're like, wow. Like, there's little. There's few things that can really actually bring you down if you have the right mentality.

100% agree. Damn, dude, that's. That's. I didn't realize you went through such a rough or, on the surface, difficult upbringing. But it sounds like it gave you the exact experience you needed to shape you, who you are now. And I love how you now see it from this, like, lens of gratitude. It's like, damn. It's like you had an amazing upbringing. Whereas most people, like, fuck, you lose your dad at seven, you're behind the eight ball straight away. It's like, yeah, clearly life gave you some really big lessons early on, man. That's helped you. That's helped shape you. I would say, like, my lessons came in not. Not. Obviously, our adversity through our own lens is just as difficult as someone else's, depending on the perspective in which we see it's all relative. So I guess my adversity on the surface didn't look anything as hard as yours. But I guess that courage or faith muscle was strengthened by really getting a taste for, like I said, that vertical dimension and realizing that I didn't need anything outside of me to make me fulfilled. I was in pursuit of external things for a long time. You know, I need to get more money, I need to quit my job. I need to find that next thing out there that's going to give me happiness. And it wasn't until I flipped the journey and I started searching inward and just really spending a lot of time with myself and practicing, you know, how can I start to silence my mind and connect with this deeper place? Because I got glimpses of it. I remember getting glimpses of it. And once you taste it, you're like, damn, that's. That's. I want more of that. Whatever that joy or peace and fulfillment that came through my. I want more of that. So I guess just. I don't know, man, I'm just a really disciplined person, I would say. And when I find something that works, I really go all in with it. And sort of what I did with yoga, so I did with meditation. And at the time, this was like the complete opposite of what I was used to, which was, you know, I was like, used to playing sport and just like, really been really active. So I went deep in the practices that slowed me down, and the slowed down practices gave me the skills and awareness to handle when big moments showed up in my life that. That shake you? One of them was a few months ago, brother, like losing a close friend in a motorbike accident. Like, exact same age as me, 26. And on a very similar path. We're having these kind of conversations and life just like plucked him from, you know, my world and my reality. And I think had I not like, dove deep in some of these practices, that that would have shook me a lot more than what it did. But in the moment, although it was very painful, I was able to see a deeper, like a deeper truth and lesson underneath It. And I get the sense that you've. You've kind of gone through this as well now in yourself, around, like, no matter what life throws at you, you have a belief that it's happening for you, not to you, and that you can navigate the greatest challenges because, you know, there's a larger purpose to it. So with that belief that I can sense that you've adopted, is there certain decisions that you're now looking to make for yourself around your growth, your business, where it's leaning into, like, what is that next big scary decision that has to be made to give you that next lesson?

There will definitely be many of those, I think. So I think, to like hearing your story. I think it's harder maybe when you experience those things when you're older. Like, when you're younger, you don't know any better. You're not thinking, like, why, you know, seven years old. I don't think that came to mind. Maybe it did, and I just don't remember it. But, you know, people are challenged with these things throughout life, and the perspectives are different, the context is different, but the output can be the same. Right? The output can be like, we're gonna drive through this. And you could find ways to create an environment where you're able to do that if you have faith. As a businessman, I came to a little bit of an awakening experience. I read this book, Built to Serve by Evan Carmichael was an amazing guy. I think everyone should follow him on Instagram. He's just a big believer in you. And, yeah, I read this book and I realized, like, it's not about the money. It was about the money for the first seven years of my life. And that created this independence that I have, and that was driven by not having it as a kid. But then I've reframed, and it's really about the mission. And I've been hard, fast on that belief system for many, many months now. And it's going to be very impactful for our business. And, like, one thing that just comes to mind is, like, the people in India just using one country as an example. You know, they do have the ability to have books. So, like, they do have the ability to have books. They may not have the school systems that you do in America or, like, whatever, you know, like everything, all these systems and stuff. Sometimes you get something good, sometimes you get something bad. It could be a bad teacher, it could be a bad school, it could be, you know, whatever. But you're a product of your environment sometimes. And I want to try and pull the environment out to a degree where people can be just empowered, like readers can be empowered to learn in their own way. There's. Everyone has access to books. I don't care. Like, there's libraries everywhere. You could find a book and you can learn from that book. But people also have to have conviction. And so, like, as part of that conviction, I think our learning technology will be a big piece. My point is, all I want to do is give people that already have resources to learn, which to me means that they have access to books now. They also have a technology that can help them learn and future technologies that can help them learn. I want to create distributed environment where people can learn through books. And that's the ultimate mission. It's going to be global because I just love people and, you know, it's not going to be something that's only accessible to the United States. It's a global learning system is what we're working on.

Yeah, epic, man. I'm really excited to see where. Where it's going to go and how far you're going to go, man. I can just sense the pureness of your heart with what you guys are doing. So it's. Man, I'm in full support. And hopefully when all these travel restrictions come to an end, we can connect in person and would be really great to see where things have gone. And hopefully this opens up more channels here in Australia for people to learn more about what you guys are up to. And if someone's listening and they want to check out what you guys are doing, where can they go to find out more?

Yeah, man, you might be the guy to lead it in Australia.

Hey, plant the seed. I'm down.

Yeah, and I would love to meet you as well, man. I love, like I said, I love your work, which is why I'm on the podcast. You could check us out. You should follow our Instagram, I think, to start, they'll help you discover books. So our Instagram is Ookthinkers. We have several other Instagrams, ookthinkersfamily, Ookthinkers, we have a Bookthinkers Latin America. But follow us on Ookthinkers, on Instagram or on LinkedIn. And then you could also check out our website, www.bookthinkers.com, and you'll see all of our podcasts, our mobile technology. You can learn more about it. I'm not a hard sell, guy. I think you should do your own kind of discovery work and. Yeah, but yeah, there's a lot of content coming out of our brand, so definitely check out our podcast as well.

Yeah, there's a few podcasts you mentioned in the, in the conversation today that I'll be checking out, so thank you for that. And you got some big name guests coming through, man, so I'm going to be a subscriber of that. And mate, again, I just can't thank you enough for coming on here and sharing, sharing your wisdom and doing what you're doing. And I know people will resonate and get a lot out of what you've just shared and highly encourage people to check out the Instagram page. The content's fire. So yeah, man, and we'll stay in touch. Thanks. Thanks for coming on the podcast, bro.

I really appreciate it. Jordan, it's great to connect with you again, man.

Cheers, mate. Bye for now. Hey, there we have it, guys. Thanks so much for listening to this episode. And yeah, look, if you made it this far, cool. Here's my voice again in your ear. And I'm gonna make one more request for you is go ahead and subscribe and leave a comment on the podcast page because I'm really putting a lot of focus and attention on getting this podcast out to more people because I know what I'm putting in here can serve and bring value to people and it would mean a lot if you got value from this to leave some feedback and subscribe. So you stay up to date with what's coming up and as always, follow me on Instagram and love hearing from you. It's eight shifters until the next episode. Guys, thank you so much and I appreciate you.