SSP 094: Douglas Karunakaran - Dancing Through the Highs and Lows of Life

Welcome back to the Stage Shifters podcast. Damn. Guys. Jordan Kalish here. We're getting close. We're getting real close to that hundred mark. It's hard to believe. This podcast has been going on for over three years and it's kind of evolved with me and it's been such an exciting and enjoyable process to see like all the different guests I've had on. Right. And from traveling through Canada, interviewing people out there to people online, it's been such an amazing growth opportunity to sit down and have so many deep conversations with people and such a to get to share them with you guys. So if you've been a longtime listener, I just want to firstly acknowledge you and say thank you so much for being a part of this journey with me. The hundredth episode is going to be a really special moment, so getting ready for that. But today's guest in this episode, oh my goodness, this was a powerful one because we got to do it in person, which is extra special. I feel like there's an energy transfer that goes down when you have an in person conversation with someone. We're so used to doing everything on Zoom these days. It was so great to sit down with my man Doug, AKA Chocolate Daddy. And as you're about to find out, Doug is such an amazing human. Done a lot of work on himself and is really leading the way for me right now because I've just engaged in a 10 week dance journey with Doug as the crew at Amongst Men. We're doing a 10 week dance program where he's guiding us or leading us into how to understand and connect and express ourselves, express our masculinity through dance. It's so powerful. So Doug and I jumped on and dove deep in this conversation, really peeled back the layers to learn a little bit more about his journey, how he got to this point where he's been a stripper in the past. He's worked in real estate, he's done a lot. He's done a lot. And I really got an opportunity to dive deep with him. We left no stone unturned. And I know there's going to be some powerful insights out of this conversation today for you guys. So please, please stay to the end. There's some nuggets of gold right at the end of this conversation. And if you want to catch the video on this one too, there'll be a video up on YouTube. Beautiful setting where we were. But yeah, before we dive into it today, guys, you know, in a few weeks time, I'm gonna be taking a few more people to be a part of my Build a Stronger Relationship with Yourself program. If that's something that's of interest to you, if you've been in personal development for a while and you feel like you keep getting unstuck by the same patterns, the same behaviors, then having some extra support is really gonna accelerate you along the journey. So I just wanted to put that out there. If you're interested in getting some more support from me. If you in a group container, be sure to hit me up DM me on Instagram and I'll give you some more information as to how to get access to that. But for now, this conversation with Doug Chocolate Daddy, enjoy it. Enjoy. Just marinate on the wisdom this man puts across, and you're going to be hearing a lot more from him. So, guys, without further ado, enjoy this conversation with Chocolate Daddy.

Welcome to the State Shifters podcast, a.

Show dedicated to helping you discover your.

True potential through connecting the mind, body, and soul.

Well, I've got the Chocolate Daddy Doug alongside me on the rooftop here at Leighton Beach. It's Saturday evening, and, mate, we're catching a spectacular sunset, and it's even more special when I get to share it with people like yourself. So, mate, welcome to the State Shifters Podcast. This is such an honor to have you here, man, and I'm really looking forward to diving deep with you, bro. How are you?

Good, good. Thank you, bro. Thank you, man. Yeah, it is such an amazing space. As soon as I walked in here, I just was like, whoa, saw this tree. So plants on the rooftop. And the clouds today are just so magical. And the color. The color of the skies, it's just. I feel like. Yeah, just being able to witness beauty like this in. In this world is, yeah, one of the purest form of happiness in my life.

I feel that. I feel that too, man. Sunsets for me are like. They're up there. They're up there. In terms of what brings me the most gratitude for life, when I witness the sunset, it just. Oh, man, it's free. Every single night we get a show, it's free.

It's so much better because it's free.

It is. It's different every time.

Oh, yes. It's timeless. Every time I'm at the beach and I see the sunset, just like the amount of people that Stop the pause that it has on, like, people and nature and. Yeah, it's timeless. It's needed. I feel like it's so primal and sacred. We would have seen a million sunsets throughout our whole evolution and embedded in us 100%. It's such an honor to be doing this.

Oh mate, I agree.

Presence of that.

Yes and fuck mate. The reason I've been so energized to get you on here is because we cross paths, you know, as little as like a couple of months ago, even like just starting into the new year. And I'm following through on a 10 week dance program with you and you know, as I get more of a taste of your energy and I get to be around your presence more often, I just like feel so inspired by your journey and I want to be able to share with people in my community what you're all about because I really feel big things coming from you. It already is happening, but like I can feel you about to like break through to a whole nother level. And what I wanted to discuss with you today was firstly your evolution to date. For those listening, we've been meeting once a week, every Friday night. And we're three, four weeks in, three weeks in now. And you know, the group amongst men is the cohort that's together going through a 10 week, would you say like an embodiment and self expression? Male sexual embodiment.

The program itself.

Yeah.

The program is just a container for men to explore, rediscover and really be comfortable in their own essence. And when I say essence, most importantly sexual essence. So this is the discovery of that and the redefinition and rewriting the narrative of what that is for you. And after you've explored that, being able to express that in a way where it's healthy, where it's fun, where it's entertaining and it's, you know, brings light from within, outwards.

Yeah. Powerful. And it called to me because that's something that I want to step into in terms of my own embodiment and my own expression of my energy through dance. It's so powerful. Right. So I would love to know, man, if you could share with me a little bit and the people listening how you've come to this place when you can now hold a container like this as such a powerful leader for men. So yeah. How did, how did you get to this place? Where did this all begin?

Firstly, I want to say you're killing it. He's killing it. He's killing it. It's gonna be a sex machine. He's already a sex machine. Gonna be more of that. The journey of dance really started for me when I first came to Australia. How I fell into dance is a funny story. But just before I get into that music in My life has always been so prominent. My mother was a stay at home mom who raised me from a baby till all the way through to high school and love her to bits. And she loves music. She fell in love with Michael Jackson when I was a baby. She literally fell in love with Michael Jackson because we were living at Brunei at this stage and one of the three countries that I lived in, the first one is Brunei for 11 years. And when we were there, the Sultan of Brunei, who's a rich man. He's rich. He's more than Arab rich maybe. And he flew Michael Jackson over in his own private airline to Brunei to perform in front of the whole country at the opening of a theme park which is completely free for the country. Yeah, so that's rich. And when Michael Jackson landed and he was performing for the country Brunei, my mom saw him on stage, she threw me to my dad and she ran up and she like witnessed him perform and she was in love. She bought his CDs, bought all that stuff and she just played it back to back. So I grew up listening to Michael Jackson, I grew up watching him on screen. I grew up just like wearing socks and doing moonwalks in the house. And it was, yeah, music has been such a big part of my life and I've always moved. And then we moved to India where the culture, dance is so embedded in the culture. Men dance, kids dance, women dance. If you see Bollywood or South Indian Tamil movies, you'll always see like four or five songs where everyone's dancing, running through the fields and a lot of color, a lot of music, a lot of passion. And the expression of dance is very embedded into the lifestyle, into the culture of the society there. And then I came to Australia where there was such a big lack of that, like in terms of flavour of life, I didn't get to experience the zest, the passion from people and most importantly dance, like in regards to movement, it was very mechanical, very sports orientated. This is probably the most athletic country that I've been in. Everyone's into sports, which is awesome. It's a great expression of life as well. But dance for me is like, you know, key. And at this stage I wouldn't say I was a confident dancer. I was just someone that moved and grooved in my own space and in my shyness and bought it out every now and then. I was in year nine and this is me moving three different countries and landing in Australia with a lot of weight on my shoulders from the lack of identity. So I didn't Know what home was for me. I was struggling a lot with that. I was struggling a lot with who I am because I've lived in three different societal constructs where, you know, every country was a different world. And here I just, yeah, went through a lot of, like, mud just to try to find out who I am. And in this process, I fell in love with hip hop. And I tried to embody hip hop as much as I can because I really loved the beats. I really loved the music, the rap, the personalities in hip hop. And I really resonated with that. And I started dressing like it, and I started making friends with New Zealand kids in the school. And I love New Zealand people. My Mori brothers, they just had this heart to just, you know, welcome me in and have me part of their tribe. And they would always in recess and lunch, have, like, dance ciphers and just, like, bust a move with their phones. They'd just play music on their phones and it was a vibe. And I'd just be hype, man. I'll just be like, yeah, get it. And this is happening in year nine. And towards the end of year nine, I got. When I was just standing there in the Cipher, I got pushed in to the Cipher by one of the dudes. Big dude by the Name of Freedom pushed me in, and everyone was looking at me and they're like, go, yeah, dance. And I was just like. I was put in the spot and I tried to dance. And at this stage, I was wearing long, pointy black shoes, and I did a couple of moves. It was whatever. I just sent it. And I ended up stepping on top of my shoe and tripping over. I literally tripped over, and I fell down to the ground. As I hit the ground, the whole circle just, like, exploded and laughed. And they made so much fun of me. And this shame and embarrassment really made me, you know, close in. And I was like, fuck. I can't believe something that I love so much is now something that I hate. I hated it. I hated that I went through so much embarrassment and shame through dance that I locked myself in the room. All I did was just watch dance videos hating on people. Like these guys, you know, they move so much better. They move so great. And I was just like them. I wish I could do that. And over time, I wish I could do that, change into, I am going to do it. And then I just made some space and some time in my room. I moved some things around, got a mirror, and I just started practicing exactly what the dancers were doing on YouTube in my room in my space. I started watching, like, dance videos. I started watching tutorials for dance. And I just kept learning for, like two to three months. And year 10 started back up. I went back into school, same boys were there, we all linked up. Recess came around, Dance cypher came around, and I was like, oof, I'm so ready for this. And then I think the first dude went in and I just stepped in and I just stepped in and I just danced. And in that moment, yeah, I really found myself just, like, in flow and, like, just pulled a couple of moves that were cool. Just a couple. And in the couple of moves that I did, everyone was just like, what? That's sick. And, like, I was in this explosion of hype. I was in this explosion of disbelief. And people were just like, whoa. And that energy made me feel so much at home. It just made me feel like that is exactly. And everything that I needed in Australia to make me feel me after such a long time of not feeling me. And then I just held onto that, man. Held onto that feeling of dance. I just carried it from there onwards. And from there, I started performing in school. I started teaching dance to kids. Yeah. Just growing my dance reputation and practicing. Practicing different arts of dance. I did ballet for a couple of years. I did, yeah, contemporary for a little bit and just explored different avenues of dance, trying to find out where I flowed with dance. And I moved away from Perth and through the journey of life, I ended up falling into stripping. That's where a lot of magic happened. So this is where me as a performer, as a dancer, had to step up on a whole nother level of not only dancing, but also enticing the crowd, making the crowd wet and aroused by my movements. Enough for me to, you know, be comfortable, to take my clothes off as I'm dancing and be okay with my whole body in dance by performing and being confident on stage. And for me to get to that level of performance, I had to work through a lot of things. And that journey of me working through myself and doing a lot of personal work on, particularly around shame, around body and confidence, this is key confidence for me as a man, I feel, like, really boosted through the roof in the journey of stripping because I was being applauded for my moves and for my dance in front of a lot of women that were just savages and they just wanted to see some dick and they were like, fucking. Yes. Yes. And, like, looking at their faces when they saw me dance. Like, that level of confidence that I got from that, I just felt Like a God. And through that journey, I realized that this feeling is something that I needed to share with people. Even though it boosted myself, it did boost my ego. And I went on a journey to unravel this, which is a whole other story. But the silver lining in that is, yeah, it helped me carry myself in such a way that I wouldn't have been able to if it wasn't for that I wouldn't be able to teach and hold spaces for men if it wasn't for the personal work that I've done on myself or all the workshops that I went to in my life. Most importantly, Preston Smiles, the Man, and Alexi Panos, they held such a tight space at the bridge experience. And then off the bat of that, I'm like, I have to do extreme leadership. And this was mid strip journey. I was stripping and I did a bridge experience. After the bridge experience, I had such a massive ego death with myself, with the ego of the stripper, that I shaved my blonde hair off. I had long blonde hair, shaved it off. And I'm like, I need to rebirth myself into this world. And so I did. From that point on, it's taken me two to three years for me to find myself again in a way where I can use my whole story and be able to give and be of service to people from what I've learned through my story, my own personal life, and be able to, like, help people and boost them up and lift them up and help them with their life, especially with physical self expression. That includes how you dress, how you dance, how you move, how you speak all the way to. Hopefully my vision for this, strip dance courses, getting men so comfortable enough for them to go and perform, to go and experience this, to go and see what it feels like, maybe even if it's for your own partner, man, that's. That's such an experience to give. And that's what I. Yeah, that's my dream and this vision that I hold so tight and so dear to me. Yeah, it's just holding that intention and surrendering myself to this path and surrendering myself to the spaces that I hold and showing up, showing up as me and just doing it.

Oh, man. Wow. I feel that. Thank you for that share. That was so powerful, bro. And, you know, when I heard you share some of that stories that you just gave in that circle we had the other week, it really allowed me to understand how you've been able to get to this place where you can hold such a powerful space. Because for a lot of men, especially Dance is such a challenging arena to step into. Like, especially this is why I've stepped into this, because of the conditioning and the, the blocks in that area through just like, growing up in Australia, I know it's like that in other countries, but, like, there's these, like, connotations that you put on. Like, oh, as a man, like, I know, you know, especially I've noticed myself these, like, labels that I put on. That's gay. Don't. Don't do that. That's not manly. Don't move like that, you know, and. And to notice how that's like cutting me off from really just like feeling myself more, feeling music more and being able to express was the reason why I felt captivated and pulled towards your energy. Because there's, like full expression in your movements, in your body. And now through your story, the ego has kind of been shed and it's coming from a place of service, which is why the work you're doing is so fucking important, man. And I really, I really feel there is a massive, massive purpose birthed in what you're doing. And what we're all doing here is conscious men. But to hold a container for us men to step into ourselves and go deeper and get uncomfortable and learn more about how dance can be a tool. How can be a tool to connect is really important. I'm really happy I get to share this with everyone. But why is it, do you think dance is such a powerful tool to connect and express and. Because it's still new to me. When I was in Toronto and going to a lot of ecstatic dances, that was my first introduction into this. Just like using dance as an expression, going to these ecstatic dances and realizing how rigid I was and seeing how free a lot of people were and how they moved. And I was like, wow. Wow, that's beautiful. I want to. I would love to be able to move like that one day. And as I've kind of like got myself more in these environments, I've started to, like, surrender and flow a little bit more. But I would love to hear, you know, your perspective on why it's so powerful and so nourishing for the soul to dance, bro.

Yes, man. Thank you for your loving words, bro. I. I just love dance because for me as a human on earth, there's a lot of things that I've tried, like sports, sports, there's breath, work I've tried as well in regards to, like, different tools, activities, fun activities, embodiment practices, you name it. Meditation. Out of all the modalities and all the tools that I've had access to and have participated in what I feel when I'm dancing and most particularly when I am in flow dancing. So if I'm by myself in my room, I give myself a free 45 minute mix or a playlist and I put that on and I just allow my body to move. Initially, it took me like 20 to 30 minutes for me to drop into this space. Now I can drop into it quite easily. There's a space and there's this, this flow that comes into me. Like I literally lose myself. I lose Doug, I lose Douglas. The music hits me in a way where I don't know my name, I don't know, I don't know who I am, I don't know why I'm dancing. But the way I dance, it's like the ultimate reverence for life. It is almost dancing for beyond myself and beyond this world and for God. And the words that really come into me right now that I think a lot of people in Australia and the world can resonate with is I as a dancer. I would consider myself an athlete of God. An athlete of God because. Because in that state, man, I've been able to experience full body goosebumps, activations. I've been able to experience ecstasy, orgasms, I've been able to experience deep sadness, been able to experience deep anger as well. And whatever emotions or whatever song that's playing and comes and hits me and I surrender to that. The embodiment of what I'm doing activates so many different emotions that I didn't even know I had. I didn't even know I had access to those emotions and I get to embody that and I allowed my body to do it and now that I have the access to it, it allowed me to tap into that. For example, like anger, when I, when I stepped into the dance scene, the crump scene. Oh, crump is such an explosive movement, explosive expression of dance. And there's storyline, there's an embodiment of a character and what, what you're trying to portray, the message you're trying to give. And I did this for a short amount of time and in that I was able to tap into so much anger and I feel like that allowed me to be more passionate. I feel like anger when I was crumping, it gave me access to so much anger that I had within myself that I built a healthy relationship through dance and I was able to bring that into this world, bring that into conversations, bring that into the things that I'm actually passing passionate about and fuel it into them. This also includes the bedroom. Bringing like that passionate, not rage, not into the bedroom maybe sometimes, but bringing that passion into the bedroom and to other arenas of life. That's just one little thing that I could say in regards to dance. The access to emotions, the flow. Flow is massive for me, man, as a being. I always used to be very busy, busy with my life, busy with my schedule. The more I started dancing and the more I appreciated dance and appreciated flow, I started to surrender into flow. Like at the start of this podcast, you know, you said, is there anything that you want to do or is there any structures, man, like, this is your thing. I'm gonna flow with you. Like the complete surrender of life can be accessed through dance, through the flow of life. And yeah, that's, that's what comes to me in this present moment about dance.

And as overachievers, like, as a self confessed, like overthinker, overachiever, busy be, you know, like it's sometimes difficult to surrender to the flow because I've noticed the conditioning of my mind is to want to latch onto control, to want to control things, you know, that's all anxious thinking is, trying to control something that's uncertain. The unknown. You're trying to control the unknown. And really dance is the ultimate surrender. And I know because I'm a high functioning anxiety type person and I know a lot of other people who listen to this content and follow my journey resonate with that too. Probably struggle with dance. So for you to share, you've just come out the other end of being a busy person and now feeling like you're more in flow. Was there something that allowed you to like drop into that? Was this just through practice, through repetition? Was there something big you had to let go of to be able to drop more into flow? Would you say more readily or more effortlessly with less resistance?

Yeah, 110%, bro. I resonate with what you say so much. Yeah, the aspect of control, overthinking, over analyzing judgment, massive. For me, I was a control freak. And to a certain extent of my life, I still am in regards to my routine, my discipline that I have for my myself. I love being in control of all of those things. But at the same time, this level of control that I wanted in my life, it disabled flow. It didn't give space for me to flow because everything was structured, everything was, this is how it has to be done so that I could achieve this. And it was a very, it was an adolescent way of thinking for me. And it was because I was a lot younger when I was thinking like this, where I was attached to. To an outcome and my brain had to logically think about how I'm gonna get there so that I could build a platform to get there instead of just holding the intention and the vision. So that's more flowy. So if I had the intention of wanting to just be able to move freely, that being my intention, holding that tightly, the surrender aspect. Oof. How you can access that is a couple of main things. Number one, this is massive not only for dance, but also life is. Is. Do not give a fuck, man. Do not give a. This is about yourself, about what happens in the world, about a lot of things in life that happens. For example, uneventful situations where something happens in life and people give a about it. Yeah, it's good to give a about it. But I feel like giving a definitely pulls me out of the present moment into my brain, into my mind. And I'm thinking about things and my brain starts creating situations that hasn't even happened yet. And I'm over analyzing, overthinking, stepping into judgment of the situation, of myself, of the people around me. And that level of operating is. Yeah, it's not enjoyable for me. It's not enjoyable. It feels like sandpaper. If I was to put a texture to it. It feels like it's not easy and it feels, feels there's a lot of friction there as soon as I do that. And the ability to step into flow is something that needs to be practiced 110%. There's a lot of ancient martial arts like Tai chi and qigong and you name it, Even Kung fu, with exercises like kettlebell swings, even you can, you can get into flow. There's so many different modalities that you can access this with the practice of flow and stepping into flow and surrendering to flow. Flow. The more you do this, the more you can bring that into life, the more that you. You can bring that into situations. If you're just going to be sitting down, going to the gym, doing mechanical movements and living your way in a very mechanical way, very rigid way, very rigid way of thinking. That's going to be your whole expression of life. That's going to be the way you carry yourself. So yeah, I would highly recommend, number one, not giving a. Especially when you're dancing, step into the intention of. I don't give a what I do. I'm just going to allow my body to freely express itself without judging it. Stepping away from the mind. And even if I look like a worm on the floor doing the worm or like, you know, a snake or whatever movement comes to your body that you want to express that you give your body the permission to do, man, that is going to compound over time. The more you do this, that is going to allow confidence for it to be cultivated in flow. So that when you do walk with flow, when you do walk with God, I would say saying flow is God. When you do walk with God. Oof. That's. That's some power there, man. And surrendering to God, surrendering to flow. There's a lot of magic that happens in there.

Oh, well said, man. Well said. I feel for a lot of people, they get confined or stuck in the mode of giving too much, getting caught in the opinions of others, or being feeling paralyzed by perfectionism or, you know, procrastination, because they're scared of what other people are going to think of them through them stepping into their expression. Either through dance, you know, either through. In my case, my journey was through content. Sharing content online. It was like, so scary because I was afraid of what people were going to think of me. And now I'm noticing this is the exact same process I'm now applying to dance. I was so afraid of what people would think of me. That's why when I used to go out clubbing here in Perth, you know, get wasted, because then you don't have to worry about how much of your. You look like when you're dancing. You get this false confidence, Right?

Yes.

So the process, like you're saying, don't give a. Requires you to be okay. Getting uncomfortable. And it's just like David Goggins calls it, callousing the mind.

Callousing.

Callousing the mind. So every time you do something uncomfortable, you know, when you lift weights, you get calluses on your hands.

Yeah.

You start to callous your mind, you become a little bit more resilient. Fuck yeah. All right, cool. You know, I tried that, did that thing that was really scary. I posted something. Something online. Cool. All right. Next time it's not going to be as challenging. I've stepped into that realm and I'm noticing that with the dance, the more I practice, like the body rolls, the more we're doing the routine, I'm like, it's getting easier. I'm dropping into the flow. Because you're moving through that initial layer of resistance and that's always going to be there.

Yes.

You know what I mean? It's almost like we expect to Be in flow straight away when we try something new that's scary. You're going to hit the resistance. Existence, it's like a part of it, man. So it's a thousand percent. Yeah. Like, can you just acknowledge. Yeah, okay, cool. I'm gonna suck initially. I might look like an idiot. Initially.

Yeah.

Can I be okay with that?

Well, 110, there's nothing wrong with looking like an idiot, man. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with looking like an idiot. I feel like, yeah, a couple of the things that you said, they're potent. Perfectionism. This runs very heavily in my life. Like I had to do things in a way that was so meticulous because I had the standard of self that when I deliver things, when I show up, when I present, perform, etc, I wanted it to be perfect. And I was chasing this idea of perfection in my life. This also includes the lovers that I had putting up standards for them that could never be achieved. A lot of these things which stemmed from, from like how I was brought up and through the walks of life. I had to unravel away from being perfect. I had to unravel and do work around stepping away from knowing that it doesn't have to be perfect. This deep knowing that, bro, it doesn't need to be perfect. Just send it, just step into it. There's lots of different methodology that people can use to step into this discomfort. To the unknown, right to the flow. There's lots of different methodology. And the one thing that really helped me to step into discomfort and be in a lot of discomfort and push my edge was cold showers.

Wow.

Cold showers, man. Cold showers are the most unrelentless state shift that I could bring into my daily practice. Every morning, maybe summertime or winter time, just stepping into the cold shower and deep breathing right now, I step into the cold shower and I do my warrior chant in the cold shower, channeling some warrior energy while I'm in the cold, in the discomfort, honing in on my essence and like the fighter within me, the beast within me and pushing my edge. Not only with cold showers, if there's something in your life that you feel like you don't want to do a resistance towards something. Asking out a girl, going up to a beautiful lady and just telling her that she looks amazing without any outcome or talking to someone. There's heaps of different levels of resistance that we can experience as humans. And for me, even for me, man, sometimes with dance, I still feel nervous, I still feel anxious. There's some moments where I'll have A whole dance session. I won't be able to access flow. I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with my body? And accepting that, knowing that it's meant to be and staying with my body, staying with that discomfort of man, what am I doing? This practice of stepping into discomfort and talking to self in discomfort. How we nourish and bring compassion and love to ourselves in that is so important because the more we do that, the more when we step into discomfort, the uncertainty of life, we can give ourselves that love and compassion. Be like, Doug, it's okay if you're not accessing flow right now. You're still doing dance, you're still dancing, you know, you're still moving your body, your body knows what to do stuff. Step away from your mind. Talking to myself in a softer way. Talking to myself in a way where I feel love for myself in the discomfort after the warrior chance that I do, man, I'm hyped up. I'm hyped up. And I look in the mirror and the level of like self love that I've bought into my life right now is being able to talk to myself in the mirror and say, Doug, like, you are showing up so powerfully in this world. You are stepping into discomfort every morning. What bruise within you is fire. You are birthed from the belly of the sun. You know, you're walking with a thousand suns behind you. And for me to be able to look at myself in the mirror and say those things, there was a lot of discomfort, man. Like, I couldn't say a word to myself. Eight months ago, I wouldn't have gotten in front of a mirror and spoken to myself. But now I like, fucking have conversations with myself. And yeah, like, the practice of stepping into discomfort and pushing edge will definitely help with flow. Also, stepping away from perfectionism and stepping away from the idea of wanting things to be done perfectly and being in perfection is an illusion. It's a fucking illusion. We are programmed to do that. And the quicker we step away from that, I think whole of life is going to get a lot easier. It's not going to have that sandpaper feel to life.

Just fucking send it.

Send it, bro. Just fucking send it.

I want to pull some things that you shared from that so it can be anchored in because it was really important. There were some key things you mentioned that I realized that I had implemented along my journey, which is micro discomforts when starting out. It's like a holy shit. If dancing scares the hell out of you, okay, maybe don't jump into an arena where you're going to be dancing, getting really uncomfortable. If you're not ready for that level of discomfort, start with the smaller little steps. Start dancing on your own in front of the mirror, or jumping in cold showers or just having little conversations that might scare you a little. It's that slow little buildup that you create over time and through practices that you mentioned, some of them, such as talking to yourself in the mirror, starting to engage in, you know, the power poses was another one that you shared with us lads, which I find super powerful. Like standing in front of the mirror, hold a pose that makes you feel confident and allow yourself to just like, feel into that. Yeah, I'm a fucking king or a queen. Like, I got this, I got this. Like, have that positive self talk. And brings a level of consciousness to it. Because if we're unconscious most of the time, the mind feeds us bullshit. The mind's just fucking, like, just hammering us when we're down. You know, I've noticed my mind do that. So that's why I bring so much conscious awareness to what thoughts do I want to create through body language, through movement? Because as a fellow Taurus, our bodies are our grounding vehicles for everyone. But, like, for me, movement is so key.

More specifically for Tauruses.

Yeah, yeah. Game movement is our fucking home base, you know?

Yes.

So, like, I know from myself, like, as soon as I wake up, gotta move. Yeah, Qigong, light movement, go for a walk, get the body awake. Because when the body wakes up, the mind wakes up in a more conscious way. So I just wanted to, like, pull that from what you shared because I'm sure people are, you know, taking notes mentally. But that's what I. When I'm listening, I'm always like, seeing the habits or seeing the key things that you've implemented that have allowed you to shape you into who you become. Because, like, you look at someone's habits, you see their future. You know, the habits are defining the identity. So powerful man, powerful like 100 man just with.

Yeah, habits as well. Like, for me, like you said, habits define your future 100% on the journey of, like, especially with your dance journey as well. And to all the people that are listening, when you step into a practice like dance, the frequency, how much you dance in your life is something that is to be noted. Because the more you step into dance, your whole being will become dance. Every move you do is going to become saucy. How you speak is going to carry that. How you walk, how you dress, how you carry yourself is Going to have that essence because you've just become that through your habits. And most definitely, I feel like if you can dance through all of life, if you can dance in the sadness of life and the happiness of life, just like breath itself, dance is right next to you and you can celebrate life through all the ups and all the downs. And when you become dance, life is going to get so much more juicier, man. I promise you this. I promise you this.

Just dance through it all.

Dance through it all.

Because there was a lesson I shared with you the other night in the group was the actual low points of life are necessary and just as important as the high points. But we forget to take dance through the low points. We hit the highs of like, yeah, I'm killing it. Look how much money I'm making. You know, look out. Look at the things I'm creating. I feel amazing. Yes, we're dancing. But then we hit the low points. Like, I'm a failure, I'm not doing enough, or I'm letting people down. No, maybe you're just going through a contraction period where the space trying to be created and it's time for you to go inward and dance with a different frequency so that on the other end of it, you get to experience, like, life. And in contrast, the yin, the yang, you know, the up and down, it's like, if you can learn to dance through it all, you know, the journey becomes a lot smoother and it removes the friction. I have. I've noticed in myself the tendency of creating friction in the downs because I judge them. I'm like, ah, I don't want this. I want to be back in flow. I want to be back in momentum.

Yeah.

But now, like, what if there's something that needs to be processed or felt or. Or experience to create the next level of flow to come through, to create a new level of capacity for me to hold more life, you know? So has there been something or for yourself when you go through lows, when you go through. I'm careful when I say the word low because words have meaning, you know, as we say words, like, there's like a meaning attached to them, like good, bad. There's just when you experience a heavier energy or a slow energy. Yeah. Dense energy. What's been your way of kind of moving through that, Letting it go, being with it.

Oh, man. Powerful, powerful. And I'd love to go deep with this because in one layer, I'll speak about a particular experience that I had just about five months ago. I had to unweave from my relationship because I was feeling a lot of pain in my heart and emotional pain. And for me, as a person, as a man, I have always avoided. Avoided pain. Like you were saying, you know, I just want to experience the highs. I want to get away from the low as quick as I can. I was that, bro. I was that. And I never allowed myself to feel pain. And I always escaped pain through women, through alcohol, through substances, through distractions, hobbies, you name it. Overloading myself so I don't feel this pain. It started to mold in a way that I couldn't feel it. And last year, I sat in a harpe ceremony journey. And for the first time after, however, so many years, I truly felt the amount of pain that my heart was in. And this was when I was in my relationship. When I felt this pain, my soul told me that only I could go through this journey of healing this heart and no one else can. This is the time for you is what. What really came to me. And I had to unweave from our relationship. So this breakup where the relationship, when I was there, there was nothing wrong with the relationship relationship. Man, we were doing so well. I love this girl and I still do. But deep within, I just had to trust my gut, trust this voice that was so clear to me. There was so much certainty around what I had to do. But for me to pull that trigger was so hard. And when I did, I was in so much more pain. And here, bro, dance was there for me. Dance was there for me. But what I did was not only dance, I allowed myself to do circular bridge breathing with my mouth open. So just slow inhale and exhale, but continuous, just continuous breathing of inhale and exhale and charging my body up with air, literally charging it up to a point where I'm feeling more of what I'm feeling deep within. And there's this pop that happens. Jake Loretto taught me this modality. He's an amazing breath, work and movement facilitator. And after I learned this, man, I applied this when I was going through my breakup, bro, I had access to deep sadness and deep rage and deep pain. And I was able to express that in dance. I was able to express that with shaking my body and screaming from my gut and just being able to wail in my own privacy and just, like, mourn the death of this relationship and work through that, dance through that. I had songs on my playlist, on my Music to Cry playlist, which is on my. Which is. Which is on my Spotify. It I'm gonna throw this ball up in the air. I'm gonna catch the story. We're gonna go on a little bit of a tangent. In my culture, we, as I said, we dance a lot, bro. We dance for the birth of a child. We dance for the death of a person. And there's this thing called death dancing where they'll literally be a tribe of people, musicians, people that light up firecrackers, dancers that are dressed in black or no shirt at all, and they just got smeared like ashes on them or smeared red paint, whatever it may be. They will get. Carry the body of the dead on the street or the village that they lived in. And there'll be death drummers and people that blow sea conches to, like, you know, send the spirit up into the air. And the way they dance for the spirit to go up in the air is very deathly. It's very dark. And they do that in respect to the dead. So that's what I've seen and experienced in my life. And when I was going through our breakup, I was dancing for the death of my relationship. I didn't judge my movements, but I was dancing like a demon. I was literally channeling through demonic movements and being able to express that for the death of my relationship, for this energy that I was feeling in my heart and not judging it and being with it allowed me to access more rage, more sadness, more darker and denser emotions. And it allowed me to let go of that, man. It allowed me to output that it wasn't within me anymore. I was creating movement for it to live and be out there. Instead of bottling it in within myself and keeping that to myself. I was sharing a dance with myself where that could be expressed out, which helped me with my breakup a thousand fold. A thousand fold. What I was feeling after every time I came out of those practices was deep, deep love for myself that I could hold myself in so much pain. I could hold myself in so much sadness by just being with myself in dance with myself in that state, expressing myself. And when I came out of that, I looked at myself in the mirror and I just cry that I got me. I got me. New backbone came into me, man. Like, I felt this hard back of just like ooze. I got me, man. The confidence that I felt after every cry session that I had, a breath work or breath and movement session that I had was powerful. Powerful.

Oh, man, wow. Depth of connection that gets created with self from that. I've been sharing a lot about that recently, like, you know, the relationship we have with ourselves defines everything in our lives, defines all relationships, not just with other people, but with everything we experience. And the depth in which we can go inward. You know, how deep can we sit with and be with and dance with our own pain, like you did creates a level of connection. It creates, like, foundations that don't get moves, you know, and you feel that in people. Like, people will consciously or subconsciously feel it around you. They feel a connection that you have with yourself through what you've been through, what you've just shared. And that's where, like, people who struggle initially with, like, relationships or achieving something in their life is because they think it's something that I need to create or become or do externally, when in reality, it's more so just going deeper and deeper, deeper within themselves and just to face. Face what's down there. Like pain from a past breakup. It's that, to me, and all the coaching work I've been doing is the number one pattern. I see pain from past relationships that hasn't been fully processed, that is showing up in patterns in that person's life. So, like, the. The work then becomes, can you go back in and do exactly what you did, which is like, hey, I'm hurting. This hurts. Yeah, let's not hide from this anymore. It's time to fucking feel it.

Yeah.

And I'm really glad you shared that, because now you've opened me up to another way of processing, which is through dance.

Yep.

You know, for me, it was like, it's meditation, breath, work, you know, through these modalities, being in nature. All modalities that work. But dance is another one that is just as powerful.

Yes.

And yes. I just think it depends on the person. Choose your flavor, you know, like, and that's where it's so important to, like, take on board. Like, if you use your body in a powerful way and, you know, the body is a way for you to access depths within yourself and movement. Is it going to be a part of your journey of releasing anger, Releasing, you know, sadness? Because there's a lot of suppressed anger that gets created. And anger is a very, very, like, powerful energy, bro.

Yeah, a thousand percent. Like, in this society, what I've noticed most prevalent with anger, not only is it suppressed, but especially after breakups. And I did this myself. I just threw myself in the gym. And this is a great. This is a great space for you to, like, channel rage and anger, to build muscle. But what you don't have the space for is when your emotions do come up and you're moving your body through. Rage is crying. You can't. Like, I don't think gyms are a safe space for people to be openly connected to their emotions because people are watching. And, like, I mean, you can cry if you want to, but I feel like. Yeah, man. Stepping away and actually creating space, like, this is the most important part in your house where you live and sleep, and it's your home, your ground, your container. Your container.

Create your container.

You have to create some space for you to be able to do this. Like, that's one of the first things that I asked of you guys is to create some space for you to dance at home. Because, man, if you have that space and you. You have that intention to move there, your home is going to be lit.

Yeah.

Your home is going to be lit. Yeah. You'll be more excited to be in your home because you're dancing in your home.

It's like your meditation space. Where is your safe container where you can really go within yourself and give yourself permission to cry, to feel rage, angry.

Yeah, yeah. To punch a pillow and yellow.

Yeah, man. Okay, so for you, yourself, like, you. Have you mentioned you have a cry playlist on Spotify? Do you suggest people find their music, Find what's gonna do, you know, songs that will elicit certain. Yeah, obviously emotional responses in you. And are you very selective with what songs you put on, if you know what you're gonna process?

In my particular playlist, there's not only, like, soft classical music, there's also songs from my culture. And we speak a very ancient dialect called Tamil. It's derivative of Sanskrit. And the way we speak is very poetic and we're very romantic. But when it comes to sadness as well, there's some amazing songs that are found in my culture. That fucking hits me, man. I feel it. I feel that. And it just throws me into this deep, dark abyss. And I'm there, and that's my flavor. And what you said is very important. Find. Whatever. If you. If you're feeling sadness, find what songs pull you deeper into that state. It's a pull. It's not a push. It's a very inviting pull to, like. Yeah, you know, come here. This is. This expresses how you feel. It could be a song from one of your favorite artists. Classical music is actually really good as well. I find that classical music is more of a journey, especially when it comes to emotions. Emotions are a journey as well. Sometimes I'll feel rage and sadness together. Sometimes I'll feel really happy and really like, angry. And I'm like, I'm so glad. I'm hungry. Like, you know, being able to express that and that's. There are music. There's an ocean of music out there where I've been pulled into a particular state that I haven't had access to, that I'm like, I feel this. I don't know what this is. I can't label this, but I feel this when it comes to processing anger. Yeah. Heavy metal, bro. Like, particular song that. That got me through my breakup is bringing me the horizon. Teardrops. Oh, it just gets me in there, man. Like, I feel rage. I'm allowing myself to feel that much rage. And, like, literally exerting that into my pillow and, like, finding safe ways to scream, that's very important so you don't lose your voice and you can still dive deep into a practice of embodying rage, not only physically, but vocally. Yeah. Really allowed me to access some deep states of further sadness and all that. But, yeah, Music, Bright Spotify, YouTube is your ally. I know podcasts and, like, interviews and all that is great. It's very. It's very essential and important for people to explore music.

Yeah. But the podcast, like you said, knowledge components, great. But the music gets you into the body, right?

Yeah.

And you, like you said with the song, allow it to pull you further into the sadness. Or allow it to pull you further into the range.

Yeah.

Which I really liked how you shared that because it's like, the permission. It's like, okay, yeah, let's be sad for a little bit. There's some sadness here. Let's fucking go into that. Put on a song. Let's fucking cry. Let's feel it. Yeah, good share. Yeah, I feel that. I feel that.

And not only with sadness, but also with sexy time. Like, if you're wanting to get hot with yourself or your partner, find songs that take you there and make a playlist. Make an adventure. Make a journey happen and take them on an adventure. Take yourself on an adventure of, you know, pleasure, which is also very important. And talking about pleasure, this. This is coming into me strong. And I feel like sharing this when it comes to judgment of movement. Like, the one thing as a man that I really struggled with was allowing myself to move very femininely. Like, move like a lady or move softly and gently. And the reason why I struggled with this was because my identity as a man, I was like, man, this doesn't make me who I am. But when I did step away from that way of thinking doesn't make me who I am. I'm attached to this identity and just allowed myself to move very sensually and softly like water or air, and allowed myself the liberty and freedom of my hands. Touching my body in a sensual way, in a feminine way, once again allowed me to access deeper states with within myself of sensuality and softness that then allowed me to experience more joy and more bliss and caressed me into sadness, caressed me into, you know, deeper darker emotions and sensuality and softness was also key to, you know, bringing to movement and flow.

Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. Big time. Oh man. I've got so many more questions that I, I could pull from here but I, I'm, I'm mindful of time. Yeah, it was been up here. I feel like we've hit a bit of a portal where times evaporate. I have no idea how long we've been talking for in flow baby. Even like the sexuality elements of dance and even your journey through rediscovering your sexuality and the power and how we can start to as men bring a deeper level of intimacy with ourselves but then also into our relationships is big part of my journey at the moment and something I'm learning a lot from. From yourself as you kind of share with us some of your practices around sensuality and through sex being such a powerful ceremony. It's like a ceremony, you know, where you exchange that potent energy with someone you know. I guess I'll ask you a final question before we wrap things up, but.

This is my juice.

Yeah. What has it been about? I guess the intersect between dance and sex that has allowed you to I guess discover deeper pleasure. Deep, deep pleasure.

Oh man. So when it comes to firstly. Great question man.

Thanks bro.

Good question man. The best analogy that I could give anyone, which has been used before, I don't know where from, but I myself did a survey on my insta like you know, for all the women out there and I just asked him who would you rather? Would you rather someone that's mechanical and just goes to the gym or would you rather fuck an African dancer? And the votes were fucking strong on the dancer. And this is straight proof from women as to what they enjoy in sex. And stepping away from firstly the main source of education that we have about sex, which is porn where everything is mechanical. There isn't this education of like intimacy there. It's just you know, in and out noises and positions etc. What allowed me to weave dance and sex together was having my own self pleasure. Time and space where I chuck music on, light up candles, incense man, wear some really comfy robes, silky robes, and even coconut oil. Something just to, like, caress my skin and allow myself to. To dance with myself in a very sensual way. Where I'm feeling myself at start. It took me months to be able to feel it. And this was a journey of like, am I doing it right? And I swear these were the same narratives. Am I doing it right? Why am I not feeling this? Oh, am I meant to be feeling nothing? Like, these are the same stories that were running in my head when I was having sex with people, when I was having sex with women, I would talk to myself like this. And it took me months to actually feel my essence, right? And once I felt it and felt how juicy that was and. And found a pathway there through my body as to how I can get there. I had access to pleasure, to self, and I had access to my own essence, which I then started to embody right through dance and allowed my whole body to be that essence. And that can be accessed through stripping. Because the whole intention is enticing another person and hypnotizing them through your moves and alluring them in with your character as a stripper. And for me, like, the intimacy aspect of this, when you're not performing for someone with you, with yourself, when you. When you're with yourself and inflow with sex with yourself, oof, man. That's a powerful combination because I have been able to bring this into my intercourses. And like you say, like, time doesn't exist, space doesn't exist. It becomes this flow where I can lead this beautiful lady into my essence and enjoy hers. And like, our bodies are doing its thing. Minds and souls are so connected. And it's a dance there, bro. It's a fucking dance. And it doesn't necessarily involve, like, penetration. It's. It can also be just like, moving the hands in a sensual way, pulling them towards you, holding them, looking them in the eye, and like, caressing them through dance. That in itself, like, I've been able to feel orgasmic states without penetration just by being with someone and exploring them through dance sexually, and also including myself as well. Like, I've been able to access deep states of pleasure and orgasm and practicing rituals and practices that don't allow my semen to come out and not ejaculate, but. But still be able to be in orgasm itself. And like. And as a man, it is. I think this is so important as a man. It's so important to be a good lover, right? For ourselves and for. For the partner that we share our Life with. And if we can cultivate that and bring that into the relationship, that is potent, that is powerful, that is a glue for deeper connection, deeper intimacy. For you to have deeper, darker conversations with your other half and take them into deeper spaces for. For you to enjoy and share this life in the spectrum that it is.

Oh, man.

Wow.

Yeah, I resonate with all that, all of that, because. Yeah, my. The conditioning. The conditioning around that porn created for myself growing up, you know, around how sex should be. You know, the experience of having sex, you got to keep the woman happy and they want to be this way. When in reality, like you, the survey you put out. No, it's. It's so sensual. It's so much more than just like hip thrusting. And one of the most powerful practices for me, which we've shared together in the group, has been the semen retention. What that created in me was, can sex be an experience that's not outcome based? You know, and it's opened it up a different dimension. I'm no, I'm by no means at a place where I can experience orgasm without ejaculating, but I'm experiencing a different level of connection in these experiences without my mind saying, oh, like when I'm gonna come. Oh, I'm getting close. Because that's the control element, the mind trying to control the experience. Yeah. If it's a dance and if you're both in flow, there's no mind. There's just every second is orgasm, you know, Every touch is orgasm, you know. So that is a whole other dimension that's opened up for me recently in my journey. Probably within the last year.

Boom.

That I'm continuing to explore more of. And it's people like yourself who are leading the way for other men to step into this and to do this work. Because the women need it, man. The females, they're waiting for us to step up.

They are wet for it.

Yeah.

They are wet and dripping for it. Yeah, man. A thousand percent they want this.

Yep.

And the one thing that I can say with that came to me as you're speaking about self pleasure. And I want to bust this myth is like in sex, when you are dancing with your partner, even with yourself, self pleasure, like your penis doesn't need to be erect all the time. And this was a massive one for me because I always judged myself so much for not being able to arouse myself quick enough or not being able to arouse myself at all. It took me away from the pleasure of my body. It took me away from. From it. Just created like stories within my mind and it was so toxic for a long time. And just to help other men out there that are listening to this podcast that do want to step into, you know, practices and rituals of self pleasure, like your does not need to be hard all the time. Just bring love to your whole body. To your whole body. Your neck, your back, your. And your crack. No, your neck, your back, your hair, your face, your body, your chest. Like derive pleasure from those in areas and breathe deep and you know, feel that and you feeling yourself in such a deep way and itself is pleasure. And women can feel that. And women can feel that, bro. And then when you are with them. Yeah, it's on another level. It's on another level.

And if that feels uncomfortable for you to do that, even better. Good.

Yeah, like even better.

That discomfort, that's. That's where it's at. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, man. I'm gonna land the plane.

Let's land it.

Yeah. And I just want to acknowledge you, bro, because it's. It's really, really special to be having conversations like this with you, but sharing this journey, you know, I feel like I've known you a lot longer than a few months, bro. When souls connect like that, it's. It's powerful. So I honor you and all the work you've been doing, man. And just like your journey so far, like I said at the start, you got a really big purpose. And I hope. I know, I know the right people will hear this. The right people will get an insight. This is always what happens with content. You put it out there with the intention of the right people receiving it. You know, it has. It's a ripple. It's like it ripples across. So I'm excited for more people to experience your frequency, to be a part of your wave. That's. That's happening, you know, as you evolve and people want to. Want to like, dive deeper. They want more of what you've just shared, mate. Where can people find you online? What's. What's the.

So my. My birth name is Douglas Karanagan. You can find me on Facebook. I. I do have an avatar on earth called Chocolate Daddy. He is a sexual beast. Insta handle is chocolate underscore D A D D I E. I do post some content there. I'm about to blow this up on another level. Coming soon. And yeah, thank you so much for this conversation, man. It's just so good to show up and share another beautiful experience with my Taurian brother. My king, man. You inspire me so much more than you know. And I do want to say to all the people that are listening to this right now, I bless you guys a thousandfold on your journey of life. I hope that love and compassion caresses you through every step, ups and downs. May dance guide you to your truest and deepest essence of self. And may you see step into dance and allow dance into your life. And for yourself, brother, I hope everything that you do is bless a thousandfold with good health, good wealth, prosperity, abundance. And may this blow up a thousand fold, taking you to new heights.

Love you, bro.

Love you, man.

Hey, there we have it guys. Thanks so much for listening to this episode and yeah, look, if you made it this far, cool. Here's my voice again in Uria and I'm gonna make one more request for you is go ahead and subscribe and leave a comment on the podcast page because I'm really putting a lot of focus and attention on getting this podcast out to more people because I know what I'm putting in here can serve and bring value to people and it would mean a lot if you got value from this too to leave some feedback and subscribe. So you stay up to date with what's coming up and as always, follow me on Instagram and love hearing from you. It's dateshifters until the next episode. Guys, thank you so much and I appreciate you.