SSP 101: Theo - Be Your Own Guru

Hello, you special soul. Welcome back to the Stage Shifters podcast. My name is Jordan Kellish. I am so blessed to have you listening to my voice because today I've got another amazing guest. An amazing guest, good friend of mine out here in Perth. His name's Theo. And, you know, Theo and I crossed paths not too long ago. Like, I've only been back in Perth just over a year, and I've really connected with some amazing people back out here in my hometown, Theo being one of them. Theo is just a really powerful man. Really, really powerful, masculine, connected, whole, integrated human that when you hear him speak, you can hear the depth of that connection. And I wanted to bring him onto the podcast today because we explore some really important topics, and for me and him, I sensed a lot of alignment in the paths that we're walking, you know, in the commitment to our embodiment practices. There was such a strong resonance between Theo and I that the topics we cover are really things that we've explored in our own life. But we also dove into what he's been exploring recently around some of his plant medicine journeys and also the ongoing commitment through his practices. But he has a really powerful story. He's from Greece, he's come out to Australia, and he's been through some big awakening moments in his life that I know you guys are going to receive a lot of powerful insights from this episode. So, as always, if you enjoy the episode, please just leave a comment on itunes or maybe subscribe. We'd love to have you back here on a regular basis. It's always a lot of fun. I'm going to be pumping a lot more of these episodes out now that We've passed the 100 mark, but this is such a beautiful conversation with Theo, and I really hope you enjoy it. So enjoy the episode.

Welcome to the State Shifters Podcast, a show dedicated to helping you discover your true potential through connecting the mind, body, and soul.

Theo, good to have you here, brother.

Thank you, brother.

We made it. We made it.

We finally did.

Yeah, we did. It's been. We planted this seed a while ago, a good few months ago. It's been a real blessing to cross paths with you on my journey since coming back to Perth, and we've shared a lot of really powerful conversations over the last few months, so I'm excited to capture one for the podcast. Man. So.

Yeah. Yeah.

How you feeling?

I'm feeling amazing.

Of course you are. Of course you are. We're about to dive into why you're feeling so damn good. Yeah, man. Well, to Start things off like, why don't you tell people a little bit about, you know, obviously you have an accent, obviously you're, you're a big powerful Greek man. In your journey through life, what's led you to this moment right here, right now where you're sitting in Perth, Western Australia?

So Australia for me is basically my hero's journey. Like that's how it still feels for me. So I basically came here when I was 29 years old and I started like the whole journey of my self discovery, like actually to connect with who I truly am. Because Greece for me it was a complete opposite because you know, the society there and especially like my city, it's really, it's really. People are really narrow minded. Like the whole culture, like you have religion, like you know, controls like a lot of things and everything is really, let's put it that way, like you don't have that environment to actually flourish and be yourself. You know, like the family unit usually like it's really shelter speeds and stuff like that. So it's really difficult to basically like connect with your essence and who you truly are. And like I struggle a lot because of that, like growing up. And I basically had to do like something very drastic to change everything and actually like connect with what I felt inside of me. And basically that's how I came here. And yeah, like Australia for me is basically home, especially Perth. Perth is the only place in the world that I actually felt like home. And I don't even have my family here. I'm alone for eight years. Like I haven't even been back. I'm just, just exploring.

Still powerful man.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean it's, we're very, we're very lucky to have you out here for sure. But I know you like we've spoken a lot, even just before we started recording about some of the things you've been through in your life that have really shape you in becoming or taking this path that you're on right now. A lot of really like traumatic things as well.

Yeah.

Would you be open to sharing maybe? Like what was the catalyst for you wanting to take this path of really beginning that hero's journey? Like was there that one specific moment or was it kind of a build up of things?

Thank you for the question. First of all, like it's actually a good one I think is for me it really started like with my dad before like that traumatic experience and everything. And this is one thing that I realized in my first actually a he was a ceremony. Like I got so like A profoundly shown that and mainly because my dad tried to live his life through me because he never like, he lived a life of regret and stuff like that. And he literally like, you know, never followed his dreams. So I found myself despite, like, I received unconditional love from both of my parents and stuff like that. And I'm really grateful. My dad never though allowed me to be myself. Like, he always like just, you know, put on to me whatever he thought like was good according to his own conditioning and everything. So that created a lot of friction between us despite we were close and you know, we always had disagreements and everything and you know, to the point like when I was a teenager and stuff, like I was so like angry all the time and everything and you know, I was always someone that I would never do what people tell me. Like, no, I would never accept anything. Like I always questioned everything from the day I was born. Like, you know, why straight away. So yeah, I never, I never accepted anything. And because of that, like, obviously I really struggled a lot to be myself and I just followed my dad's recommendations. Like even with sports, for example, because of his own experiences, because he was a professional soccer player, he was always trying both me and my brother to protect us. So he never let me go and play soccer, for example, or fighting. Fighting was something that I wanted to do. I started doing boxing and everything else and straight away he would tell me, for example, only punks go and do that. Like you don't want to be there and you're going to get injured and all that stuff. Always trying to protect me from the things that I wanted to explore. And he put me into swimming, for example, like, what's the safest thing that you can do? He put me on swimming, but because of my, my own, you know, like one of the good things that I had from a Yankee, my, my attributes and stuff. It was basically like I had like work I think, and I was willing to try everything. Like I didn't care. I just wanted to explore a lot. So when I started swimming and stuff, despite I didn't have the body type for that, nowhere near just because of my work ethic, I actually became like really good to the point I was in a backstroke when I was at my junior years and all the stuff. Like I would be in the top 80s, 100 meter, 200 meter and all the stuff. And then I transitioned to, to water polo. Like I just stayed like, I literally did something that, that I wasn't even enjoying that much just because like I love pushing myself like that's it. So literally I taught myself from a very young age to do stuff that I don't enjoy and becoming good and that can have a massive impact also, like your resilience and you know, like how you can deal even with life. So like, you know, whatever life throws at you. And then when I was 16, like my first very traumatic experience happened when I had like a really serious accident and we crashed with 140 kilometers on our wall. I wasn't wearing any seat belt, no airbags, nothing.

140.

140. So literally in a corner, like whoever saw the car afterwards, the car almost split in half. And that was lucky because it was actually a Golf GTI if I remember correctly. 1995 model.

The car you were in.

The car I was in like my best friend's car. And we were both 16 back then. So he got the car from his parents, like, and they didn't know anything. And yeah, like we literally crashed and we had the system back then. Like it actually. The engine goes down when you crash so it won't get into the copic and smash you. So that actually like saved me in a sense. And I literally put my, my leg for resistance. I can't even remember anything. Like actually a lot of what happened I cannot even remember because of the shock. And I broke my femur in half. I literally bend it from, from my femur and I smashed my face on the dashboard and my hand got out of that window. So I was really lucky that I, that I survived that. So it was my first near death experience, but also left me with a very serious like a post traumatic stress disorder that I never did, you know. And imagine also the shock on my nervous system from something like that. And yeah, like I never received help, I never received support no matter what my mom tried to, you know, provide. Yeah, it was, it was, it was pretty crazy.

That's a pretty intense near death experience, bro.

I'm laughing now saying that, but that's me.

Wasn't fun at all. No, hell no.

I was just about to say the reason why I'm laughing also is because the 12 days that I spent inside the hospital, like two of them, it was literally waiting to have the surgery and then another 10 until I was ready to come out. It was probably the period of my life that I probably laughed the most. So what happened there? Everybody was coming from my family or even friends and stuff like that, and they were trying to cheer me up so they share stories. Like I would just laugh the whole Day they were trying to make me laugh and I didn't realize what happened to me back then. But being through so much pain and laughing so much at the same time. So my brain associated extreme pain with laughter. So then like, like I had this, this really weird connection with pain and I just, like, I just seek pain all my life. Like I could not escape from that. So that wiring I had in my brain, it was literally towards pain and suffering.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, like I would just love. It's an interesting one.

Yeah.

And what you share in that is like the reason why I can relate or resonate with like your upbringing. I think we've discussed this before in the past, my dad, very similar patterns that were passed on to me around, you know, the work ethic and the high pay tolerance. Like I kind of have the same thing, like, you know, playing semi pro soccer, the willingness to want to just like always be training, always be working, not afraid of the pain. Because that's sort of what dad passed down to me. Of course.

And you crossed the tip.

And it's funny because as you shared that story, I reflected on like, I had a similar traumatic experience when I was 15 when I got really sick and had appendicitis and almost died because my appendix burst. Not as traumatic as yours, but still a similar. For sure, for sure. And I found it like, interesting how that happened to me as well at around the same age. I'm sure maybe there's something to do with the emotional imprinting that goes on earlier in life and we attract these experiences into our life to start to awaken these parts of ourselves. But, and I'm sure you'll share this, but like, it kind of takes a while to start to realize the impact on your nervous system or the trauma that's, that's still in there and how to start to rewire that or begin to rewire that. Because I know a lot of people who listen to this podcast who follow my content do have a similar pattern. The conditional love that we received growing up results in us thinking we always need to be going out, proving something to the world because we're afraid of facing that childhood trauma that's there. When did you start to realize that, okay, I'm gonna have to rewire some stuff that's going on down here in my nervous system because you're in that constant fight or flight mode.

You know, I just want to clarify something for people because there is a lot of misconceptions out there and I just want to say that trauma is not the actual experience that you have, it's what happens inside of you, right? From that experience.

Yes.

So it's not actually like the accident, the injury. Like, it's not that. It's actually what happens inside from that.

Yes.

This is like, it's a very important, like, thing that people understand. Sure.

Yeah.

And for me, like, for example, so people can understand actually what happened inside. Like, I was such a. I was really, like a really vibrant and energetic kid. Like a really happy. And then after the accident, like, there was a lot of changes happening to the point that I remember calling my mom three years ago, actually, to ask her, because I was in the process of healing myself and, you know, like, doing all that work. And she told me, you know what, son? After the accident and stuff like that, I would look at you in the eyes and I would see emptiness, you know, and that. That hit me hard when she said that with me, because I never realized that. And the other thing was, like, I had a lot of anger. This is a really common thing, like, with post traumatic stress disorder and stuff like that. Like, you know, it can come with so many different ways, like addictions, like, anger, like, addiction to certain emotions and all the stuff. So for me, it was anger. Like, that was. That was the thing. I lived probably another. At least 15 years, like, raging. Like, I. I would try and go and fight consistently. Like, I would always scream. Like, I would be like, you know, and my addiction was literally stimulants, my way to cope with the pain and what was happening inside, which is a very common thing. Yes, it. It was literally stimulants, caffeine, pre workouts, like, everything. And I lived probably I abused them for at least 12 years, like, literally. And. And the worst thing for me is because obviously, like, you know, I'm a lot with. Into biohacking and like, I'm really, like, into health and everything and longevity. The big problem was that I didn't know even, like, I didn't have a clue about. Nobody was talking about post traumatic stress disorder back then. Nobody talked about, like, genes and actually understanding, like, you know, how you process caffeine or stuff like that. So when I did my test, I saw that I'm a really slow metabolizer of caffeine. So caffeine stays on my system for a long time. So then I. I realized, like, for that 12 years, I probably didn't even have a proper night's sleep because of that.

I would have sympathetic nervous system constantly activated.

Yeah.

Yeah, constantly sympathetic fight or flight all the time. That's why I was so aggressive and stuff like that. Like, I would have this really, really aggressive, extreme energy, like, you know, that I could not do anything about it. And when like, obviously you go into the cycle with the stimulants and stuff, you consistently like going to the pattern. The point that I had certain periods that I reached exhaustive and stuff. I remember like working at some point in a fast food cafe restaurant as a manager, and I would do the night shift from 6 in the afternoon till 6 in the morning every day. No, I didn't take a day off for 34 days straight. And I would literally work six to six in the morning. I would go home probably by eight. I would sleep for four hours. 12 o', clock, I would be up. I would go to the gym, go to the beach, and then stay to work. So the 34th day, I literally collapsed inside the store. That's how intense I was.

Wow.

Wow.

I could not escape from that at all.

Because your mind had associated comfort with being in that sympathetic state all the time.

That's.

That's all you knew.

That was my normal.

Yeah.

So I lost my. I lost completely, like, my connection with myself. And like, I'm a Pisces. I'm really intuitive and stuff like that. And from a very young age, I was really connected with my body and I lost that. So I actually realized recently how much I was grieving, losing that connection with myself. Because when you are on the sympathetic response for, like, chronically, you literally live up here.

100.

That's it.

Yeah.

And this is one thing that people do not understand, like, because the brain controls the body. And you know, you're moving. You move everything and stuff. You think that you're actually into your body, that you can go there, but it's not. It's that your brain control, like, that's it.

Yeah. And.

And I lived. I lived in my head for. For so long.

We've had a lot of conversations about this. Because the same thing for me and the same thing for a lot of people who think they're in their body but are constantly chronically in their head and in the sympathetic nervous system. And I'm probably over the last couple of years, only just realized how disconnected I was from my body. And especially over the last six months, through dance and through other modalities and body work, how, how much more I'm starting to tune into my emotional body and how much is being opened up in terms of how I feel and how much pleasure is coming through in my life through doing that. And I know you've been on that path as well and how powerful it can be to finally drop out of your head.

Exactly. That's actually what led me even subconsciously choose to become like a physio massage therapist and stuff like that. Like when I was in Greece and starting like that. But I was trying to reconnect with myself. So that's what led me there. Understanding anatomy properly, like how the body works, like every system and all the stuff. Like I was so passionate about it because. Because of that disconnection that happened, I was trying to reconnect with my essence and that's what actually pushed me to choose that path.

Right. So yeah, that. So that path obviously has supported you. Body work, massage therapy. Understanding how the body kind of like tightens up and. And restricts the flow of energy moving through. Right. That. The sacral energy center, sacral chakras. That emotional identity that we lose probably from that. The, the trauma we have growing up around authority figure. Growing up.

Right.

And that's. That's a big thing. And than saying that because especially for us men, we actually even like energetically and stuff like that. Even our sexual energy like completely gets stuck in the first chakra.

Yeah.

In our genitals and stuff. Like literally you get hypersensitivity there and it results like for. For men, premature ejaculation, like addiction to sex and all that stuff. So you cannot move the energy all over your body and stuff. And it's a big like problem. That's why you see certain behaviors also mentioned. And this is, this is one thing that happened to me also. I actually like was. So I was sexual. Like. Like that's one of the things. Like that's my essence also. But the thing is I had such a massive addiction to porn and sex in general. Like that's how I dealt like all of my 20s. That was it for me. The only thing I care about was literally sex and like I had this addiction with porn and stimulants and you know, I was just so, so intense like all the time. Like I couldn't escape from that and it was crazy.

And same. Same growing up out here for us. What the thing was that that was sort of like considered normal because so many other people have that same traumatic imprinting that's just considered the normal thing like addiction to porn or addiction to, you know, always looking to be stimulated or to be in that state which just keeps you disconnected. So tell me a little bit more about like that process of getting back into your body like for You. How did that unravel? I guess.

Yeah, so I'll set another experience first before I go because that had another massive impact for me. And it was basically like two years after having the accident. So I had another very traumatic experience because I basically got involved into a big fight, like a, like a brawl, whatever you want to call it. And basically, like, I got surrounded by.

And this is in Greece, right?

Still in Greece, like, I was 18 still, like, you know, like I was such a young kid and like, I got surrounded by 20 people and basically my friends abandoned me. It was the first time that I actually felt that. So that was a trauma by itself. Like, literally being surrounded by so many people and looking back, having no one and. And because of me, like, I was always that one. Actually being there for. For my brothers and stuff, that had a massive impact. So getting traumatized like that. And then, like, I got stabbed. I got hit, like, with, with everything that you can possibly imagine and all that stuff. And, and basically, like, that actually gave me another big, like, you know, post traumatic disorder. And that was another big impact and shock on my nervous system. So you can understand, like, having those two experiences that young, it can actually, like, change your life so much. And for me especially, I lost my connection with my legs. I love dancing. From a young kid, I was always, like, with the flow and I love that. But I lost it completely. I became that dude that would go, like, to parties or the clubs and stuff and just sit with this drink, you know, just move his head and like, literally just be so rigid. Yeah, but that, that's, that's the impact that it had. Like, I could not, like, you know, could not escape. I could not enjoy myself just because of living in that state. So then, you know, like, I tried through bodybuilding or like, in general, like through the gym to, to connect. Like, that was my first thing outside sports and stuff like that, obviously, because, you know, like, being with our weights and all the stuff, like, it's all about muscle mind connection. And I was exploring that a lot also at the same time starting, like, physiotherapy and everything and understanding the body in such a deep level, it allowed me like, to actually, like, connect with the muscles and feel everything and all that stuff. But still that wasn't good because for me, I was so depleted all the time. And being in the sympathetic response, you're literally most of the times catabolic. You know, like, it's, it's. It's a big thing because you always live on adrenaline and, you know, and cortisol is always high. So I was training the hardest from everyone that I knew. Like, literally I would destroy myself because I had that addiction to pain also. And I could never like change like my body, like the way I wanted. I could not understand. And the more I wasn't getting results, the harder I was training, the harder I was pushing. So that's the thing. Like, I've pushed myself in such extreme ways, like, and I lived like probably almost 20 years, like beating myself, like literally beating myself up consistently and having this disconnection. You do not understand what's happening to yourself. And for me, it took me literally actually until I came here to Perth and I got exposed to like understanding, like inner child work and shadow work and working with the medicines, the plant medicines and all the stuff and going really deep into all that. This is when I actually managed to properly reconnect with myself. So it took me almost like two decades to get there.

Wow.

Almost two decades.

Wow.

It's crazy.

It is.

It was unfortunate also because like, you know, the like growing up in the 90s and stuff like that, nobody was talking about that, especially in Greece, about ptsd, about trauma, about like nobody. You had no clue about that.

And that's the thing that's sort of happening now. Right. Unfortunately for you, it's so. It took so long, but now it's like the information is there.

I'm so, so happy for that, that people actually get the opportunity to understand themselves like in such a deep level and you know, having people like you and so many people are there like that they provide that, you know, like, information and can work like with people in such a deep level. It's so important. It's the most important work that we all have to do.

Totally agree.

Cutting literally like a whole generation, like patterns that are happening in the traumas and literally being the one that you're going to stop that. And from you onwards you have actually like, you know, people that are healed and they can actually make an impact. Like it's. It's massive.

Yeah.

Because what. What we've realized or, you know, what I've realized, it's the only thing that matters.

Yeah.

Like it does not matter how much money you have, how many cars or houses you have, if you cannot feel life.

No, no.

What's the. You'll be always be chasing something.

How many men do you see out there? Like, and I'm focusing on men because like, you know. Yeah, I'm working with a lot of men also. Like, how many men do you see out there that they, they're so focused on making money and succeeding in their business and all that stuff and everything else falls apart and they're so dark inside.

Yeah.

So unhappy. They're just trying to mask everything with acquiring and, you know, getting more money and acquiring more materials and all that stuff. You will never be satisfied because everything is inside. Like you're already whole, trying to. To complete that from external sources. Like it will never happen.

I have a question for you. What would you say to someone perhaps, you know, my parents generation, your parents generation, who, you know, went through because you think about the extent of the trauma in that generation.

Yeah.

Yeah. So int. That same thing. They never were supported, never were given the opportunity to be able to release some of that. Some of the people in that generation know, know that there's a lot of darkness in there, but they're too afraid to go into it, like if they want to begin that process, but they're afraid or they don't know where to start or like for so many years of their life they've been trying to run from it and maybe they're starting to become aware. Like maybe the solution is going in, but I'm just so fucking afraid. Where do you. Where do you start? Or what can you suggest to that?

You actually said like the perfect word. Like it's, it's awareness. So if someone is aware of what is happening, like if they actually, they are in the 50s, their 60s, and they actually, okay, they have the awareness now and they know, okay, I need to do something. You know, that's the first step. First of all, you need to start from that. Because if you don't have the awareness, you're not going to seek for anything. So that's the first part. And then just start like, no matter how you do it through a book, there's amazing books out there. Like, you know, recently Dr. Nicole, like, she released how to do that Work. That's an amazing book because she actually gives you that tool to do it yourself, to understand the process, understand what's happening to you when you are a kid, how you can get traumatized, what trauma is and all the stuff. Like it gives you so much information and then it has all the steps that you can follow in the exercises to do it yourself. Like, it's a great beginning. If I had that book 20 years ago, I wouldn't have been through the things that I have, but obviously I wouldn't be who I am.

Correct.

So I did all that work for all of you.

That's it thank you, brother.

So. So, yeah, like, great books out there. Like, I can suggest so many of them. Like, you can. First of all, if you want to seek someone to take you through the process, you need to find someone that actually has a holistic approach and can see actually humans as a whole body, speed and mind. Because even more than psychology and stuff like that, it's all about the mind. You will go there and they will just look at that. You see also themselves. They're so disconnected from themselves. So how can someone like that, you know, if you go there when they haven't even done the work properly themselves.

Which is the problem with a lot of psychologists at the moment.

You know, I'm not saying that all of them, they are like that, but someone that is actually like, has gone further than just the courses that they do, that degrees and all the stuff, and has explored spirituality and understand, like the body also stuff, and sees, you know, everything as a whole, they can provide great results. If you can find someone like that or someone can suggest to someone like that 100% they will take you there faster.

Yeah.

You know, and then for me, the fast and send, the best way to do it is plant medicine. You know, personally, it actually goes through my mind a lot. I would love at some point to give like this gift to my parents and have an experience like that with them. Like, that would be a dream.

Come, come to brother, because we're going to, we're going to explore the plant medicine stuff. But I want to, I'm curious to get your perspective on this, this question. That generation again, you know, maybe their whole life avoiding this trauma, plant medicines, we know being the fastest route to releasing the pain. Is there any danger in maybe bringing, say, like someone in that generation into a plant medicine journey? Having not done much other work, do you still see benefit in opening up the opportunity for people to use plant medicines as the fast, the fast track or like, what's. What are your thoughts on that?

So everything is a risk in life.

Yeah.

You know, driving out there at any moment, you can have an accident for sure. Everything is a fucking risk, but it's a bigger risk. Literally living all your life with never taking that leap and taking that risk and seeing what's on the other side. Because literally you're gonna have your whole experience in this lifetime as like a disconnect, like as a zombie, basically. You will never experience life properly. So first of all, you know, I would love, like, for, for everybody to at least consider taking that risk. Contraindications and stuff like that obviously, like, if you have, like, really serious mental disorders or heart conditions and all that stuff, you should not touch anything. But if you are a healthy individual and stuff and you have the awareness, just give it a try. That's it.

But.

But educate yourself, which is the most important thing, and do it properly. That's. That's what's missing from our society because, like, you know, plant medicine and stuff like that, they have been demonized as the, like, drugs and like. But everything is a drug, you know, by definition. But it's how you use everything. Coffee can be a drug and can be a medicine. Like, everything can be a drug in a medicine.

Yeah.

You know, it's the intention behind it.

It's the intention and it's literally like how you use it. So people that they actually, like, have bad experiences or. Or even like it results to death and stuff like that, it's actually them. It's how they use it because they use it as escapism. They use it like the wrong way and they abuse it, you know, because there's no education at all. There's no education. There's no nothing. Literally. And not only that, there is a conditioning that you have to go past of. It's bad. It will kill you, will make you crazy. Like, you know, I don't think we look crazy. Well, I think we're pretty happy. That's the thing.

Yeah.

And you're right.

And for me personally, my parents, I would guide them into that.

Yeah, I would love to be able to do that with my parents one.

Day, but I would love to have that experience.

Yeah.

And you can understand the resistance on their end with the years of conditioning, like being told that this is, you know, it's a drug. But we've touched on the topic of plant medicines, and you're fresh off the back of a toad. A toad journey. The 5 Meo DMT. And people who've listened to my podcast before or follow my content know that I've sat with the toad a couple of times. Yeah, a couple of times. And I've spoken about it last year after I had my first experience with it. And we were just discussing before we started recording your first experience and how that was and man. And how powerful of a medicine it is. And I would love to, because it's so fresh, man. I've caught you at a really special time. Of course, the channels are clear right now, so. Yeah, man. Why don't you walk us a little bit through how you knew you were ready to dive into this journey and what your preparation was like, and now what's come out on the other side for you.

Okay, perfect.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for allowing me to say.

And I'm sure people are very curious because people are, in what I'm saying, people are interested, opening up. They're hearing about it. You know, you got Mike Tyson taking it. You've got Tony Robbins has experienced the five meo.

And see also the impact that it had. Like, Mike Tyson is the perfect example. Like, he was such a traumatized kid, full of anger and, like, you know, rage and all the stuff. Like, he lived, you know, such a. The first half of his life in such different way compared to now. And literally as soon as he had, like, the toad experience, it transformed him completely.

It's almost like Tyson would be like, another level up from what you were going through with the intensity of his anger and his hundred percent.

Like, you know, I never. I never. I never actually had, like, you know, ways like that, like, really unhealthy ways for me to express my anger and all the stuff. I was fortunate like that because I was really disciplined as a kid, like, you know, and that helped me a lot. So I didn't direct it, like, in such unhealthy ways, but obviously was hitting me, like, alive. But see, like, when you see someone like that and transforming to the complete opposite, like, he's so calm and collective now, and he's succeeding so much, he's happy. Like, he literally turned his life, like, 360°. Yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah.

You know, that's one example only. But for me, personally, the way. The way I see it is I don't wait to be ready. I don't wait to, you know, get that call and stuff like that. I just. Just do it. Yeah, that's it for me. That's. That's how it is. Because if you wait and you allow your mind, because the mind, like, it has only one job to do, literally protect you from everything. So if you allow the mind to come into. Into the game and stuff, forget about it, it's gonna convince you straight away. Oh, it's gonna create all these stories and stuff like that. And by the time you actually go and do it, it will be like years and years if you do it.

So someone needs to, like, push you into it.

I don't wait for that. Like, I don't wait for that. But, like, for me, obviously, like, I can go there really easy because, like, I've pushed myself so hard, and I always did, like, such hard things and everything Like I had like such. Such really powerful experiences and, and I've experienced like so such intensity and pain and suffering. So for me, like, it's, it's. It's my second nature, so I can actually do it like that. But this is in general what I would suggest to people. Don't wait to be ready. If you wait, you know it's gonna happen to you what happened to your parents.

Yeah.

Basically, like, you're gonna be so true still.

You know, like regret not actually realizing how disconnected you are from life and.

Missing out the action. Like it's all about that going past the fear, going past what your mind tries to tell you.

Yeah.

It's just stories.

Yeah.

You know, you need to have the awareness of that. So for me, I just go and.

Do it, you know, so. So this opportunity has come up.

The opportunities I create the opportunity for myself.

Yeah.

I'm like, you know, that's how I experienced also, like in general, like all the plant medicines and stuff like that. All the experience that I had, I'm like, okay, I'm going, gonna do that now. You know, I educate myself about the, the substance, the history of the substance and everything, how to do it properly. And I will always go and do it in a ceremonial setting.

Yes.

Not going and partying with it. I'm not using recreational. I go there as a student and it's my teacher, both the guide or the salmon, whatever you want to call you, the practitioner and the actual medicine. Because that's how we evolved also. Like, you know, if you see through history, like that's what happened. That the reason why we were so connected also with nature, like for. For thousands of years and we're one with everything. It was literally because of that.

Yeah.

Because we connected with those tools, those teachers that the earth provides us and we consume that for so long.

And how could you fuck up the planet when you realize that when you are one with your one with.

Yeah, you do it.

That's it. That's a big problem. Like we're actually experiencing a collective mass psychosis at the moment. Like, you know, the people that they are on that over, they're so disconnected from everything. They, they. They treat the planet and everything as an object. Even us, they treat. They treat us as ghetto, which as feed the machine.

Yeah.

You know, that's why like having an experiencing like that and going back to being one with everything, it changes the whole thing.

Yeah.

The more we do it, the biggest. The opportunity to actually change it's completely the world. Like that's, that's the whole thing.

So someone who has heard of plant medicines, someone who's listening to this podcast, I can guarantee, have come across plant medicines. But it's still maybe in the back of their head, the fear is getting in the way of them exploring. Do you feel like obviously toad is one end of the spectrum, Five is the most powerful one we know of.

Yeah.

It doesn't really matter where you start, as long as you start.

Cool.

That's it.

Cool. So that. That's important. That's important, man. Yeah, it's people like, oh, no, no, I got to start with mushrooms or I got to start here.

No, it's not about that. Just have the experience first. Yeah, just have the experience. You know, just. Just try a small amount or something and just. Just see how you feel, you know, and always with, you know, have someone with you and stuff like that to guide you and, you know, support you. Don't use it recklessly and don't use it for. To escape or, you know, use it actually to connect with your inner world.

Yes.

You know, not disconnect even more and mask the pain and, you know, what you feel. That's what they provide us. First of all, it's not just connecting with everything around you. It's reconnecting with yourself. That's the biggest thing. You know, like, my first experience, like, as soon as I realized that you're, like, straight away, okay, this is crazy, you know.

Yeah.

I was afraid of something because of that conditioning and what, you know, like, people tell you out there that literally actually gives you the most. The most value from everything else that you have tried in your life. Because I'm someone that I literally, like, studied a lot. I'm a sports nutritionist, like, physio, massage therapist. Like, I understand, like, you know, so many things in depth, and I've tried, like, worked with natural parts and herbs and, like, everything. I've tried everything to heal myself and feel better, but nothing had the impact that those medicines had on me.

Yeah.

And I'm saying that because not that everything else, like, it's bad. You always have to try things. That's why you need to try things, so you can find what works for you, you know, and even, like, changing your diet. Important thing, like, you can feel so much better.

Yeah.

And it can actually put you on a state that feeling better will allow you to actually, like, try even more things and then actually, like, you know, get progressively better and better. But you need to start from something. Just try things, you know, it's important, big time.

Otherwise you go on these journeys, if you haven't raised the standards in other areas of your life, you won't be able to really integrate or take what you've experienced into your life. That's where for me, like, just to. Because I'm, I want to get your take on what's just come out of your toe journey. But for me, for my toe journey, the actual lead up to the experience itself was just as powerful because it, it allowed me to treat the experience. The intention going into the experience was this was going to change my life. I want to prepare for this like it is the biggest day of my life. So diet, exercising, really making sure I'm nurturing myself so that I had as much energy available as possible. So that afterwards, because my standards were already so high, because I'd already made the shifts to my habits and the way I was showing up, I was able to integrate everything so quickly into, into my life. So you're right in saying like it's, it's how you're living, then when you bring in the plant medicines, it's only going to take you to it, to a deeper level of connection in yourself.

Right.

You literally changed your old normal, just even preparing for the experience, you literally changed the way you were living and how you saw yourself. You literally became healthier straight away, just even before you experience that because you treated everything in that way and you were present with everything. That's another big conversation to do about present, you know, but, but see, just the lessons that you get from all that, like even just the experience. So when you will have the experience because you've already had this preparation and you actually that appreciation of, of your body, the connection, the way you feel, you change your normal having that experience. If you just carry that and you integrate that on your life, you already change your life like in such a massive way. Like, you know, and integration, it's the biggest thing.

100. 100.

Yeah.

And so many components of that.

Totally. And more. So the, what I realized was the shedding of all dependencies, the celibacy from alcohol, from smoking marijuana, from having coffee all the time, ejaculation.

Yeah.

Everything that is just as powerful as the actual ceremony.

It's even more powerful.

Yeah. Yeah, man. So, yeah. So tell me now about your prep with one way of like detoxing the body and really preparing yourself or how you prepared mentally, Physically.

Physically.

Okay.

So for me, the whole preparation started three weeks before the experience and especially with a thought, because it's a medicine that works a lot with Your Kundalini energy and literally blasts all your chakras open. Like I've experienced a lot of them. But the toad found it's that one that can take you faster there. Like to create that openness and that connection with like, you know, make you whole again, like, you know, in such a profound way. And so yeah, I made sure from the beginning, like I actually built myself up like that. I'm fortunate because of where I am at the moment because I'm doing a lot of sexual practices like through tundra and Taoism and all the stuff. So like at the moment like I'm not ejaculating and stuff. So I'm building my sexual energy and after two years of practice I have the ability to basically transmute it and you know, like move it all over my body and have, you know, I'm multi orgasmic and stuff like that. So that allowed me, you know, to connect in such a way with my body and build like my Kundalini like in, in such a way that was so powerful.

Yes.

So that was the first part like my diet what I did. I was having three meals a day, but like pretty big ones. And usually I would have either one or two smoothies. So I would juice basically like my, my calories and stuff.

Yeah.

With fruits, vegetables. I was actually eating like a lot of high vibration foods. I would still eat meat, but it would be mostly kangaroo. Yeah, you know, obviously like, you know, because it's such a good quality and stuff like that and you know, always it's grass fed and everything else and like really clean. I made sure like my training and stuff like that I wasn't like destroying myself. Like I was actually training to be healthy and not completely like messing up because it can actually have like an impact on your sleep and everything. Sleep is another important thing. So you know, my sleep quality like was, you know, and I would go same time to bed. I had that routine that I had to follow and then I have this, this routine that I have every morning when I wake up which is basically breath work and meditation and like self pleasure most of the times and stuff. And actually like using also the energy that I create for manifestation. So it takes me usually about one and a half hours like the whole practice that I have and, and journaling also at the same time. So you know, doing that like for three weeks. Like by the time I, I was in the final week to, to go and have the experience, like I was just feeling, you know, amazing.

Yeah.

But then I was unfortunate because I got sick Actually, I have sensitivity with sinusitis, which I have it from a young kid, and I actually get it really bad. So as soon as it happened straight away, like, you know, all the old, like, fucking thoughts come up and you're like, oh, here we go again. Because it can be, like, really painful, but because of the state I was, I actually observed myself. It was the first time that I didn't let it get into my head and I didn't get it, like, so bad as I would get, like, previous times. And the thing is also a big thing for. For Especially for the Toad, but even for other ceremonies, is actually to do Campbell beforehand. Like, I highly recommend it now that I had that experience.

Yeah.

And kambo is a. Is a medicine that. It's not, like, psychedelic or psychoactive. It's basically a venom from. From a toad, like a frog and stuff. And basically it's really cathartic, really vegetative. It can build your immune system up and it can actually clear your energetic field also, but can clear you physically. And I was fortunate to do that, like, the day beforehand.

Right.

Purging for the first time so much. And literally, like, I had actually a high dose also, which was the second time that I tried the combo. And, like, I just felt so good afterwards.

Yeah.

So that allowed me also, despite I was sick, it actually, like, allowed me to at least be in a much better state for my experience, like, the next day.

And.

Yeah, I just. Yeah, like, the whole preparation was just so powerful that. Yeah, it was amazing. And I felt so good going there, you know.

That's amazing.

Despite the sickness, despite, like, you know, how. How I felt.

Yeah. And so. So that's the beauty of the Toad. Right. Because you are going into the peak experience of a psychedelic journey. It sort of forces you to, like, level up the game in terms of how you're preparing, which is why it's such a powerful medicine.

Yeah.

You know already that you're going to experience basically, death.

Yeah.

Like, literally, it's. It's the first time that it's the closest thing that you will get on understanding death.

Yeah.

And actually being okay with that.

Yeah.

So basically you're going there to die, to die, though not physically to die as. As. As Theo, as Jordan, like, actually die and stop, like, being that identity.

Yes.

And actually, like, having the ability to see yourself outside that, you know, the ego.

Death. Yeah. Yeah.

And this is something that I use, like, all the time. Like, I use this saying, which basically die before dying so you can learn how to live. Because if you don't have that experience of stopping being yourself. You will never actually understand how to.

There lies the power of this medicine. Because when you come back, you just. What becomes available to you when you are no longer afraid exactly of dying.

When you completely dissolve and you cease to exist, you become pure consciousness. Because basically like this medicine, this is, this is exactly what's happening. You see how it is after life, after living this, this vessel that you have, I call it, aren't all. Because we basically, you know, we are a soul that comes and we rent this body for 70, 80, 90 years, how long you're gonna live and stuff like that. And, and, and the appreciation that you get for. For what? This beautiful thing actually, this beautiful vessel, what it allows you to experience the pleasure, the pain, like all the emotion, all the stuff, you know, you cannot have that when you are pure consciousness.

Yeah.

So when you get there and you actually see what this provides you, the way you can connect afterwards. Like, and for majority of people, they have never experienced that. They have never reached that level of appreciation and love for themselves. So actually going there, you come back and you just love everything.

Oh, you're so right, bro.

You love everything. You are connected with everything, you know, and you're not afraid anymore. You realize that fear, it's something that doesn't exist. It's, it's fabricated, legit. Like it's not like it's false evidence appearing. You are afraid of something that hasn't happened. Like, you know, like think about it.

And that's what holds most people back from having the life they want.

Yeah.

Because we grow up in a society that, that fear is so instilled into us and we like, we cannot escape.

Yeah, you're stuck. Some people are like a psychological prison.

Yeah. 100. Yeah, that's it. You are prisoner of your mind. That's why you cannot even your body. Yeah, but see, you live up here and it's always fear, fear. Like that's why like our amygdala line, our brain that's so hyper like, like they're so hyped up that you're always living there.

Yeah.

Like, you know, like you see people out there that they're so afraid they cannot even go out, get out of their house. Like it's ridiculous, you know? Yeah, of course, when you live in this prison, you're going to live in this prison like inside four walls. Like that's, that's how it feels.

Exactly.

You know.

Yeah.

Because the mind doesn't want to venture out into the unknown because It's. It's afraid of what might happen and that's the unknown. Like any plant medicine journey is. Is where all the magic is.

And you know what the thing is, especially for me because of my experiences, like for eight years that I'm here in Australia, I actually was fortunate to be a stepdad to six kids. And observing kids being free in that state that we forget how it is led to explore. Their mind is so empty completely and they just love everything that it's so connected with everything and it just want to explore. Actually seeing that, you know, inside the house and actually getting that opportunity, it allowed me also to. To try all those things and allowed me to be where I am now. Because I remember. I remember how I was when I was a kid. And deep inside, we never stop being kids. We were always there. This kid is still inside of you. It's just inside another body.

Yeah.

That's why you need to reconnect with that.

And you don't technically need the plants. The plants will give you the fast track. But the ceremony can in multiple ways.

Yeah. It's what happens afterwards also, because you're going to be getting blasted with so many messages, so many lessons. And the more tapped in you are and the more like if you have the tools also afterwards, like you. You have the people around you that can guide you or, you know, like the, you know, books or anything else that can actually help you with that integration process. So when things come up, you can actually like sit with them and process them properly. Like it's just like an ongoing process. And when you connect with those medicines, they become part of you. Like you are that, you know, that's why you realize that how connected you are with everything.

100. Yeah. And like you mentioned something about after coming back from the Tory that I want to speak to because I. You reminded me of something really important that I remember feeling in that moment. Coming back from the. The journey, coming back from the experience of complete unicity, oneness, everything. You're completely dissolved into another dimension of existence, which is the. That unified state. But I remember coming back and being just so grateful. Like you said, to have. To have a body to be alive, to be able to experience the polarity of life, the. The yin and the yang.

Yep.

Because this is the blessing we've been given. Like, it's almost like, you know, your consciousness, this spirit has been blessed to come down into this incarnation. This. It's a gift to be able to live this life.

We are here to have fun, man. Like, yeah. Man, we are here to have fun.

Because once you're back in oneness, it's like that's it. It is beautiful.

But yeah, that's it. You're not here to fucking like work for corporations and try to climb the ladder and like, you know, acquire things and stuff. Yeah, you're here for the experience. You're here to live. So start living. Not, not, not like you know, being prisoner like and trying to, you know. And when you are in that state, everything will come also. Like abundance will come. If you want to make a lot of money, it will happen because you live in that state in higher vibration and you will attract that. You're going to manifest it in your life. When you chase money, when you try to force things, it's not going to happen.

Yeah.

And even if it happens, it's going to be short lived and you're going to be fucking miserable. It's not like that.

I love creating things in this, in this life because it's fun. Yeah, right, right. And what you realize is when, when you're lighter, when your vessel is pure and you are connected to a higher frequency, a higher level of consciousness and Joe Dispenser talks about this. When you, when you tap into that, that quantum field state, your point of attraction, your vibration as a being because we're electromagnetic beings is higher. So you don't need to worry about how all the amazing stuff's going to show up. You're just attracted because you're at that frequency. So like the toad and the plant medicines are helping you to clear away or giving you a taste of the unicity or the oneness so that you can come back and continue that work of just keeping the vessel pure and clean.

And you actually said something important like because you said about Dr. Jordy Speza, she does an amazing job and actually like can take people there without the substances. Go and try that if you want to. Like, I'm not saying that like you should do that, but just because of the state that majority of us live and how stuck we are with everything, how traumatized like how like, you know, we are in that state, you know, having an experience like that, it will literally fast forward everything so much, you.

Know, and that, that path that Joe, Joe's laid out, the meditation path, yeah, you'll get to the unicity, but it's a bit, requires more work.

But that's the thing. How many people have the ability to put so much work.

Yeah.

Be committed on that work and stuff like that and actually reach that State. It takes so much time. See, yogis, sheep, like monks and all the stuff takes years and years of practice to go there, you know.

Yeah.

And we live in a society that everything needs to happen fast. We need appeal to fucking go to everywhere. Like, everything is external. You're not gonna do it. You're gonna start trying. That's what happens with most people. How many people have taken the. Bought the book from Joe Dispenza or did the course or did the meditation and they do it for a while. That's it done.

Yeah.

They're not gonna keep doing it. That's the problem. But then having an experience like that, it, like, it literally, like takes you there and even further than that so fast. And it allows you to basically, like create that new normal and actually start putting that work because you feel so much better afterwards. And you have that will to go there and you will be committed. I can guarantee you that. There's no way. There's no way that you're not going.

To be so true. It almost like forms a new neurological pathway.

Yeah.

100 what I've noticed. It fast tracks that. That connection back to that state.

And that's the thing, because you spoke about that. Like. Like, even if you go like, you know, if we want to talk about a bit like what it actually. How it works on your mind and stuff like that, first of all, like, it literally stops your default mode network, which is basically where everybody lives. So actually inhibiting that and allows like the two hemispheres of our brain to communicate with each other in ways that they haven't before. Like, it allows you to go there, you know, like, even if you see it that way, if you see it from a chemical way, from neurotransmitters, you change the neurotransmitters. Like, you know, you can. You can and describe it so many different ways.

You know, the beautiful thing is, like, what opens up in your life after doing that kind of work or having that kind of experience, opening up more access to your brain, opening up more access to your body is what starts to drop into your experience is a higher level of information. You know, creativity. Like, for me, I've noticed so much more creativity in my life now that I'm not blocking it.

Because you say that, like one of the biggest problems that I had, like, I lost my creativity.

Yeah.

Yeah. I could do that, like with my physio and all the stuff, like actually working with a body, like, I could create that and stuff like that. Like, I would use my hands to express my Creativity. But that was it. Like, I was so blocked, I could not try anything, you know? And now I'm to the point, like, I'm, you know, trying all these, like, tundra and daoism. Like, I'm starting playing instruments. I'm 37, and it's the first time in my life I actually allowed myself to even start. I'm playing the dj do like a drone flute and everything. Before that, I had this story in my mind. I'm not good enough to play instruments. Like, you know, I don't come from a family of musicians and stuff like that, so I'm not supposed to play. You just need to start, man. Like, just. Just buy a thing and start trying and playing, you know, you can do it so many different ways. So, like, all of a sudden I found myself, like, I'm creating, like, even writing things down, like journaling and stuff. Like, I would never do that. I had this story in my mind. My writing is so bad. Like, you know, like, oh, I can write. I can actually speak, but I cannot write. You know, all this. These stories, like, got completely, like, eliminated. And I can actually just experience life and I can do whatever.

Expression.

Yeah, like, express yourself.

Just express yourself.

Yeah.

We're so stuck. Oh, you know, my genetics are like that. So I'm supposed to do just certain things. No, like, you can do whatever the you want. Literally. We are here to just do stuff, like experience stuff and try stuff. You will never know actually, like, even what your gift is, is your major gift, like, to this world and stuff, if you don't try. You know how many people, like, live and die their lives with every. Without ever discovering that?

Yeah.

You're not supposed to discover it in. In like, a certain point of time. There's so much pressure. Oh, I don't know what I want to do in my life. Just keep trying, man. Like, eventually you will get there. It's not supposed to happen, like, straight away. And that's the thing. Some people, they discover it really fast.

Yeah, okay.

You know, well done, you know, but keep trying also. Like, don't. Don't get discouraged. Like, everybody is different. Would you have, like, almost a whole century to discover that that's why you're here. Just keep doing it.

Yeah.

And as you continue to keep, like. It's almost like each of the chakras in your system and your body, the energy centers, as you start to, like, unlock each of them more, More life force can move through you, flow. And as you have more life force, you then become a more pure Expression of life. That's what I think. I believe our purpose is that to be a pure expression of life, to express what's moving through you in each and every moment.

You know, to put it, like, really simple. To express God. That's it. We are that exactly. We are that exactly. You know.

Yeah.

But we believe something completely different. Like, you know, we are that. Like, we what? Like, when you express, like, your pure expression, it's fucking God.

Yeah.

Creativity is God's expression.

We say love is the ultimate feeling. Like, when you express love, that's what you express. Basically. That's it. You know.

Oh, man. It just. So for people now who are on this path, on this journey, tuning into this content, there is a level of consciousness in them that is receptive to receiving this information. What's been your guiding principle as to knowing where to go next? If someone maybe is tuning into this content, but they don't know where to go next, they're like, okay, like, I get. I want to experience all this, but, like, how do I get. Get to that? Where do I start? Like, where do I go next?

For me, it starts simple, with connecting with yourself through breath. Like, that's the most important thing. Yeah, this is what literally, like, because.

You always have it. It's for free, man.

Like, it's for free. You don't have to spend money for courses and all that stuff, like in gurus and say, first of all, you need to be your own guru. Like, that's it. You know, you need to be your own guru. That's it. And we are conditioned to seek, you know, big daddy government to tell us what to do and authorities and all that stuff. No, like, you know, the beauty of literally, like, discovering yourself and who you are and, like, you know how to be healthy. Nobody will tell you how to be healthy. You need to discover that, you know, so actually, like, using your breath first of all, to tap into your autonomic nervous system, you know, being your parasympathetic, like, you know, state and actually, like, through breath and meditation, ask the questions. You know, wake up and do that. Or before you go to bed, like, take some connected breaths, try to meditate. You know, there's no specific way that you need to do it. Just. Just stay there, like, relax and connect with yourself. Ask the questions, you know, who am I? Where I need to go now, I can guarantee you you're gonna get the answers. Like, your. Your intelligence will tell you. Yes. And that's the most important thing.

Yes.

If you connect there, you're going to get the answers, but you need to ask for it. That's it. Like, it's. It's that simple.

Yeah.

You know, and this is most of the times, even how it happens during, like, your experiences with psychedelics. You ask the questions. When you go there. It's basically the same principle. That's it. But in that level of consciousness, obviously, you get more answers there. That's it.

And you realize, yeah. And you realize, yeah, the answers to your question have been inside of you all.

Everything is inside, man.

It's like we're asking God. Ask yourself.

Yeah, God is here, man. It's not up there. See how fucked up it is. Like the structure that they have created for us. That's why they're so passionate about pulling you out of your body and seeking everything externally. Because this is how they fucking make money. If you stop seeking that and you seek the answers inside, because this is where they are, you're gonna stop.

You get your power back, like, playing.

Their game, and you're actually, like, taking back your power. Like, it's that simple, you know? That's how simple it is, man. Like, that's it.

You're so right, brother. And you just nailed. And I feel like that's a really beautiful place to. To start to wrap this up. Because it doesn't have to be complicated.

No.

This game is this life. This dance is really simple. That's really simple.

It's actually a dance, right? Like, literally, it's a dance.

It is. Is.

That's it.

Yeah.

So, yeah. Connect with yourself. Be your own. Be your own guru.

That's it. That's it.

Breathe.

Yeah.

Stop giving your power away. It starts from there. Stop doing that.

Stop giving your power away.

Stop giving your power away to other people and all that stuff, you know. Stop seeking wholeness externally. You are already whole. Start from that. Understand that, you know?

Yes, brother.

Yes.

Yes.

Oh, man.

I feel like we could keep for hours.

We can't do it again.

I would like to do another one.

Yeah, I would love it.

Yeah.

Because we'll see what starts to open up in your life now.

Oh, I love it.

The five Meoh. Just. And just to finish on that, because I watched, there's a new documentary out where they're sharing some of the latest research on dmt.

Yeah, yeah.

The.

The molecule in the toad and the different forms of DMT.5 Meo being the one in the toad. But they're now really seeing or showing that we release five meo in our. In our system. There's not been enough Scientific research done on what's going on when you do these transformative breath work experiences. But what they genuinely think is going on with people like Wim Hof is he's releasing dmt, which is fueling that extreme release of energy that's allowing him to tap into his nervous system and, and reach these altered states of consciousness. Because you're tapping into your own pharmacology.

That's it.

It's already in there.

But you already have the receptors for them, for the medicines to work and you already, most of them, you can actually endogenously produce them. Yes, that's it. But we need to understand that, you know, and that's a problem. Like, you know, pharmaceutical companies and stuff like that, they create all these drugs and stuff like that and we basically like seek everything there, but everything is inside, even that. That isn't why we have the receptors for the chemicals to basically like attach to. It's. It's because we've evolved with that.

Correct.

That's it.

You know, and what I, what I took from it, if I remember correctly, was what they generally think is happening is these plant medicines are not actually giving you something, they're switching on something that's already in there so that you.

Can 100 access it 100%, which is a trip.

Right?

That's it. DMT is everywhere, in all plants. We have it in big concentrations on our lungs and pineal gland and all that stuff, according to the research. Until now, you know, you never know, like what we will discover later because it's pretty new still. But that's why through breath you can produce so much DMT and actually have like, you know, psychedelic experiences without the substance, you know, that's, that's why.

Yeah, they think it's in the cerebral, the cerebral spinal fluid.

Yeah, yeah.

They used to think it was just, just in the brain. But if it's in this spinal fluid, it's all around the body.

There's so many, like, crazy, because I'm using like all these different, like, types of breath work. One of them is the microcosmic orbit, which, through the spinal fluid you can actually circulate like energy and all the stuff. Like, you know, there's so many ways to do it.

Yeah.

You know, and I've had experiences like that without any substance. But I wouldn't be able to go there if I didn't have the actual experience.

Yeah, ref.

Connect. Yeah, exactly. Now I know how to have the experience by myself, you know, but it doesn't mean that I'm gonna stop Learning from them.

Correct.

You know, because I'm still their student. But I can do it also by myself whenever I want. I can lay down in my bed and just have a powerful experience like that and get that releases, get the tremors like for my body to remove stuff, remove traumas and everything. I can do it now, but they showed me that way. That's it. That's it, man.

Dude, I fucking love you, man.

I love you so much.

And thank you for just sharing your truth and walking this path and being a leader. I see you as a leader that I really admire. And yeah, I'm just excited, man, for the impact that you're going to have and the people who get access to this, this frequency that we're putting through in the podcast and yeah, this won't be the last time we.

And I love your work so much. Like, you know, and for me personally, like it makes me so happy to see like, you know, people, other 20s, like you actually like, you know, becoming like these powerful leaders and support, supporting people around them and creating like all these ripple effect and the more people we have like that, the easier it will be for us to change what's happening at the moment.

Thank you, man. And just to finish, because a lot of the people that I have conversations with and coach, a lot of people struggle connecting with like minded souls. They feel like some of the challenge, they feel a bit alone on their path sometimes. And you and just some of the people that I've attracted into my life are a great reminder of what you said, which is when you connect with yourself, when you get to know yourself and become your own guru and access that level of energy, all the support will come to you, 100%. All the people will come to you.

Be you and whoever needs to come, they will come. They will hear the calling. It's really simple, you know, because when you connect with your soul, these other souls that you have been there before, here before, are going to come to you. That's how we got connected. Like, you know, that's the people I have in my life. Like if I haven't done that work for, you know, with myself, I would then attract them. Like, you know, we wouldn't have this conversation here, but I had to go there. That's why it's so important to do it. Yes, the people will come.

Thank you, man. And if people want to reach out to you and get to know you a little bit better. Any platforms or channels you want to.

Yeah, just, just my social media, like obviously Facebook and Instagram like, I'm gonna give them to you if you wanna.

Yeah, I'll put them in the show notes.

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

Amazing, man. That's amazing.

Love it.

Thanks again, bro.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for joining us, guys. We'll see you in the next one. Hey, there we have it, guys. Thanks so much for listening to this episode. And yeah, look, if you made it this far, cool. Here's my voice again in your ear and I'm going to make one more request for you is go ahead and subscribe and leave a comment on the podcast page because I'm really putting a lot of focus and attention on getting this podcast out to more people because I know what I'm putting in here can serve and bring value to people and it would mean a lot if you got value from this to leave some feedback and subscribe. So you stay up to date with what's coming up and as always, follow me on Instagram and love hearing from you. It's at State Shifters until the next episode, guys, thank you so much and I appreciate you.