SSP 102 - Matt Cama: How the Relationship with Yourself is Causing Havoc

Hey, what's going on, my friends? Welcome back. It's Jordan Kanlish back with another episode of the State Shifters podcast. It's good to be back on here. The podcast is very nourishing. It's very nourishing to the soul to get on here and just have deep, powerful conversations with epic human beings. And today is another, another example of someone really special who I've connected with. And before I dive into today's guest, I just want to give you a little bit of a life update from my end because it's been, it's been a little while since I've updated the podcast and I do promise you I'm going to keep this coming out more consistently. My amazing PODC editor, Amber has been taking some time off and she's shifted work, so the editing has slowed from that end, but she's going to be back in action very soon. But on my end, life is shifting and evolving in really exciting ways. I'm about to move house at the time of this recording. I'm moving house in the next couple of days. So it's always exciting when you change place, when you change up your environment, right, you get this like blank canvas to which you can create on it. And I'm super excited about what I'm about to build in this new environment. I'm actually. It's a three bedroom apartment, so I'm going to have my own office, which is amazing. And then. And I'm actually gonna create a studio. I wanna create a little podcast studio where I can invite guests around to my place and have really powerful conversations and do the stuff that is so nourishing to me, which is this work and to have these conversations and share them with you guys. So, yeah, stay tuned for that. It's coming, it's gonna be amazing. So to today's guest, Today's guest, his name is Matt Karma and he's an absolute legend. He's a bloody good bloke. And I knew from the minute I crossed paths with Matt there was a resonance in what he was sharing. The path that he's walking in life, get him on the show. It's been, it's been a bit of a bit of back and forth over the last few months to get him on here because he's a, he's a busy man. He's crushing it online on social media. Make sure you follow him because Matt, in my opinion, is leading the way. He's leading the way. I actually get a lot of inspiration from this man through the content that he Creates and the way that he's leading and coaching people. So I'm honored to bring him on here. Super excited to share this conversation with you guys because we're kind of in a similar niche or similar style of work and the way that we coach. So Matt talks a lot about doing the deep inner work as well. So if you're familiar with me talking about inner child work, releasing suppressed emotions, healing from trauma, Matt's a specialist in that as well, and he's now also started to specialize in helping people find embodied love. Embodied love. And this is such a big thing that comes up for all the clients that I work with as well, is that how do you find true love? Embodied love.

Right.

Conscious love. So Matt helps his clients do that. I'm so excited to share him with you guys as well. And if you got value from this podcast, share it with someone who needs it. But without further ado, enjoy this podcast with Matt Karma.

Welcome to the State Shifters Podcast, a show dedicated to helping you discover your true potential through connecting the mind, body, and soul. Foreign.

Welcome to the Stage Shifters podcast, man. It's. It's an honor to have you on here, brother. It's been a. It's been a long time in the making. I've had my sight set on you to bring you on as a guest, and the day's finally arrived. How are you, bro?

We are. I'm feeling great, man. I feel. I'm feeling really honored to be on this podcast. So thanks for having me on.

Thank you, thank you. And, yeah, we're just saying offline. Big thanks to our mutual friend Alex for setting this up. Alex has been on the podcast before in the past. He's a top lad. So, yes, you're dialing in from. From Bali. You know, one of my favorite places in the world. You've been living out there for the last four and a bit years.

About four. Four years. And really close to Perth as well. It's like three hours away, right?

Yeah, yeah, we're on the same time zone. This has made things a little easier for setting up this meeting today, but how are things out in Bali at the moment? Because I know I've been to Bali probably about eight times in my life, it's obviously the. The local travel destination. As someone growing up in Western Australia, and I know that place relies a lot on tourism, and it upsets me a little bit to think how it is right now, but coming from someone who's on the ground floor out there, you're in Canggu. What's what's the kind of vibe right now?

Yeah. So for everyone listening, this is recorded during the whole pandemic and right now it's been really crazy. I just, I put on my Instagram story about a week and a half ago. There's this place for anyone who hasn't been here called Seminyak. And this is the place where most people go to who come to Bali for like partying or just going to sightsee or maybe not sightseeing, but partying for sure. And I got so many replies in it from people who have been here because it was just dead. I just recorded on my scooter and it's just so quiet. There's not tourists here. So, yeah, a lot of people. Crime has definitely gone up because a lot of people struggling financially and yeah, it's just not the best over here at the moment, especially for the locals here, you know.

For sure, for sure. Yeah. And Seminyak, so, so used to that place being bustling and in Changu, there's obviously a big community of Westerners who live out there and bunch businesses out there. How has that still been in Changu for you guys? Obviously you have been too affected by the kind of slowdown.

No, it's been really amazing in terms of the people who are here right now are people who already have a pretty much really good thriving online business. Because in order for you to be here for the. It's been nearly two years now, you know, you have to be already working online. So I've met some awesome humans over here and just created a really cool network of humans who are doing epic things online. So yeah, that's been a great benefit from all of this. Yeah, epic.

Epic. And just to go into that, your business, you are a relationship coach. You've been a coach coach for a number of years now and I've been following you closely online and as you've kind of evolved and you've really stepped into such a powerful influencer in this space, bro. Especially on TikTok. But tell me a little bit about the work that you're doing at the moment in the relationship space and how that's kind of transpired because you've kind of recently just decided to shift and niche down a little bit more into relationships, is that right?

Absolutely. And I would rephrase that for me, when I, when I introduced myself, people like, are you a dating coach? You're a relationship coach? And I always say I'm not that I do speak about those things on online, but what the angle That I take is the relationship with yourself affects every other relationship in your life. So I say that I'm more of a self relationship coach because a lot of people, like, how do I. What do I say to this person? How do I flirt? Or like, how do I do this thing? Like, what do I need to say? And then I'm more like, what's the thing that is preventing you from speaking up in the first place? Let's look at what has happened during childhood and let's see what is the thing that's preventing you from using your voice and owning your truth and just settling for breadcrumbs when there's someone out there who can give you so much more. Let's look at all of that stuff because that's what I love to focus on is more of the relationship with ourselves that's creating havoc within a relationship or causing us to be attracted to or attracting the same person, but with a different face and a different name, but it's the same pattern. So that's how I like to say what I do. You know, more of, more of that angle.

I resonate, bro, because, yeah, like, like you said, the relationship we have with ourselves is essentially shaping all the other relationships we have, whether it be other people, business, money, food, whatever. I'm curious because you've been doing this work for a while and you probably coached it a lot of people. What are, in your opinion, some of the primary elements to having a strong.

Solid relationship with yourself, with ourselves? Yeah, great question. Number one. I feel like it's very hard to have a relationship. We're to think of it with another person first. Because what helps us have a relationship with another person, the foundation for it all is do we understand this person? How well do we know this person? Like that's a. That's a foundation for it all. Because if we don't know someone, if we don't understand someone, then how can we truly have a great relationship with this person? So what I love to focus on when I'm working with clients is getting them to know themselves. And what that may look like is because that's very broad, it's very ambiguous. What does that even look like? What does that mean? We can look at what are our patterns? What are our patterns that are ineffective and unhealthy when it comes to all areas of life, but especially in relationships? What are the patterns that we do that we're unaware of, that are our blind spots that we don't know, that we don't know that we're Doing it and then all. Also, what are our belief systems? What is it that sparks joy for us? What are our values? Like? All of these things are very important because especially when it comes to in a relationship and choosing a partner, it's very hard to find compatibility with another person. If we don't understand what we really want, what are our desires? What do we really want? Do I want kids in my life? Do I want to get married? Like all of those things determines whether you are truly compatible with someone or not. And a lot of people are just flying blind going into a relationship, not truly knowing who is it that I am, what is it that I really want, what do I want to do with my life? All those things are necessary. Like one little mini example of this is if the thing that's really important to me is adventure and travel and then I am dating someone who is. It's really important for them to be secure and just stay in the same place and just work. And like that isn't going to be compatible. That's going to create havoc in a relationship. So those are some examples. What are my values, what I really want in my life? What are my belief systems that aren't serving me, that are serving me? All of that. That's a mini example of it.

Yes, totally agree. And even just to like relay that back to our own relationships, because I know you've been in a relationship for.

A little while now.

I've been dating my partner for. We almost met five years ago, so it's been a while. We've been in this relationship for a while. And I remember just to go back to the values piece, one of the reasons why I feel like my partner and I get along so well was because we have very similar core values around freedom, fun, exploration. Some of the things you just mentioned. And yeah, I remember I used to work in a corporate job and that was like the opposite of my core values. So my relationships to my work was very dysfunctional because it didn't align with me. So I guess just not this relationship supply to everything. Right. Knowing your values and can help with the work that you do, your work has to support you in living in alignment with your truth. So in the work that you're doing, the people who are who are coming to you for support and help in their life, what are some of the main things that they're coming to you for help with or what are they trying to have in their life or receive? And what are some of the main patterns that are blocking them from having.

That great Question the biggest reason why people come to me and join my programs, depending upon which one it is. But the main, my main program, the one that people who are joining that are single, they wanted to get into a relationship and there's patterns that are coming up for them. Some of the patterns may be they may be settling for someone that isn't in total alignment, like I mentioned before the breadcrumbs, just because there might be a belief that I'm unworthy of having anything more, who's going to love me. Or it's the belief that there's nobody better out there because I have so many reference experiences of dating people who aren't a great match. So they just thought, you know what? I'm just going to give up on this, this person, this person's okay. But when it comes to anything in life, especially relationships, if something is just okay, that's a really, really low standard. You got to think about this, especially with work or especially in relationships. This is someone who's spending all of your life with. If something's just okay, the relationship is just okay, or the partner is just okay. When it comes to being in alignment. Like, that isn't a standard that we want. So that's. That' a big reason why people come. Or they just broke up with someone and they want to move through this. They want to heal and because they want to start dating again, but they don't feel ready or they are dating with a broken heart. They are dating when they're still carrying wounds from a past relationship and they're just noticing that when they are dating, the patterns that weren't healed, the patterns that weren't let go of from past relationships is now showing up when they are dating someone. So people who join my programs are usually single or they are dating and they want some support with. I don't want the thing that happened in the past to happen again. And I want to focus on me. Like, what is it within me that's creating that? So that's a big reason. And some of the patterns are that shows up for people. There's two big patterns that I like to focus on. Like, some of some people who are listening have probably heard about the anxious attachment style and the avoidant attachment style. But usually some of the patterns are someone, let's say for the someone who's an avoidant may be interested in someone, but the very second that someone shows interest back, they find that intimate, they start to pull away in terms of intimacy, they start to get less interested and they go like Matt, like, why is it that the very second that someone shows interest in me or when it gets a little bit too serious, I pull away and I want to run away and then I want to go straight back into just dating someone else? Or why is it that the very second that I go in and I start to get more interested, the person that I'm dating gets less interested and then they pull away? So those are some patterns that show up. Or when it comes to communication, there's just a lack of communication, which is the foundation for a healthy relationship. One of the foundations for a healthy relationship. So we teach people, like, how do you speak up and set a boundary? How do you speak up about what your desires are, what your requests are, about what it is that you love in order for you to feel loved? You know? So those are some. Those are some examples. Yes.

Wow. Thank you for sharing that, man. And I'm sure there are people who can relate to some of those patents who are listening to this. And I'm curious, because you are very well versed in this area now, and I'm sure you've probably supported a lot of people in going through this, but what seems to be the main cause of that attachment pattern where people get disinterested or people pull away from someone? Have you identified what the root cause of that is?

Every single time that I've worked with someone, it's either been because of. There's two big patterns that I find. Either, number one, there's some type of childhood wounds that went on that has created this pattern, which normally is under the umbrella of something that has happened with a way that they were raised in the dynamic with one of their caregivers or both. You know, for example, let me just give you one example. For me, in the past, it was definitely an avoidant attachment style where the very second that someone will be interested in me, I would want to pull away. And one of the reasons was because during my childhood, I felt like the very. Because we all got to think about this as well. The very first relationship that we ever are in is a relationship with our parents, right? Like, that's the first relationship dynamic that we have, and that affects a lot of our relationships growing up, all forms of relationships. So for me, the way that I was raised, especially when I started to live with my dad, it was very strict and lots of rules, and there wasn't a lot of freedom. So growing up, as I started to get older, when I started to get into relationships, my association to relationships was a feeling of being Trapped. It was a similar feeling that I was getting from the relationship with my dad. So it wasn't until I started to do a lot of inner child work that I started to heal the wounds of the little 7 year old Matt, the 13 year old Matt was carrying around that I started to change my association to relationships and intimacy. So, so that's an example of that. And I forgot your other question.

Yeah, that was mainly the root cause of what causes some of these patterns that you're aware of. And yeah, the inner child work is something that had a big impact on me as well. In my evolution. One of my coaches guided me through an inner child process. And yeah, it was the same thing for me because one of the patterns in my relationship that I was aware of was these mama boy tendencies, the people pleasing tendencies to just make sure, do what I was told, you know, keep her happy, disregard my needs and that eventually resentment started to build. I caught myself a few moments in my relationship harboring resentment and that was something that was a massive red flag for me because I saw in my parents dynamic the resentment that was there.

And it was something that I really.

Didn'T want to bring into my relationship. So I guess just on what you said, it's very helpful for people to observe what dynamic their parents had in their relationships and kind of notice how if that ever creeps in to your relationships, that's a, that's a sign there's something down there that you can look at and work on in a child stuff mainly to I guess back to the needs, right. The emotional needs that aren't being met from that first relationship.

I was going to say as well on that. One of the things that I teach is that especially on this topic, looking at what needs weren't met by our parents and there's four big things that we all need need in order for healthy childhood development. There's a need to be seen, there's a need to be heard, there's a need to be physically comforted and a need to have a safe space for self expression. And all of the what makes up our inner what we don't. I say that we don't have an inner child, we have inner children. There's not just one part of us that lives dormant within us, there's multiple parts. Every single agent we've ever been exists within us. Especially when there's a traumatic event that has happened. And, and what happens is our inner children or our inner child is a makeup of all the times where we weren't seen when we weren't heard, when we didn't have a safe space for self expression, when we weren't physically comforted and looking at what are those times where I wasn't seen, where I wasn't heard and all those four things and then looking at, out of those four things, which one or which ones are the most painful? So for example, for me in the past, one of the things that I was really, really desiring was the need to be seen. And to get even more specific was the need to be acknowledged by my dad, to be like, yo, good job, I'm proud of you. And he did give me that a lot later in life. And at the same time when I was younger, I remember just craving that. So what happened was I remember that in one of my past relationships that was something that I was seeking from her. I was like, this is all unconscious, it's all in a subconscious. My mind was like, I need you to be the dad that I didn't have. So acknowledge me, let me know that I'm proud. And when she didn't say it, that I'm proud and I did a good job or I achieved something, I'd be like, I'd harbor resentment. Same thing that you were mentioning before, but it was all unconscious. And this is something that we just all get to look at is like, what are the things that has happened with my caregivers growing up where those needs weren't met? If we don't be the parent that we didn't have but needed growing up, if we don't give those things to ourselves, then we're going to find that we're going to unconsciously play out and we're going to seek what we didn't have from our parents in another partner. It's really, really important that everybody hears that.

Yeah, it's powerful man, because I can relate to that a lot. Because it was the same dynamic with my dad growing up. And I always noticing it's a very similar pattern for young lads growing up here in Australia. Very hard to get dad's love. The dad is usually emotionally closed off and is unable to support or see, allow the young boy to be seen. And because I've coached a lot of people in former semi pro athletes and things like that. And because I used to play semi pro soccer and I realized through sport how this pattern was showing up and I noticed and I remembered how the reason why I wanted to play so good at soccer was it was one of the ways that I was getting my dad's love or trying to prove that I was worthy of getting dad's love. And it was conditional. When I played good, got it. When I played bad, it was like he wouldn't talk to me. And it was. That dynamic allowed me to see that this is playing out in other areas of my life, too. I'm just trying to prove that I'm worthy. And these, these avoidant behaviors that show up. One of the ones for me was like obsession with the gym. When I was 18, I remember I used to work out like two times a day because I wanted to get a good body to show to the girl I was dating at the time that I'm good enough. Look at me. That's really common. I don't know. Can you relate to that as a. As a young lad from Australia as well? That pattern of looking to prove ourselves to the world through either making lots of money, getting your body in a certain condition in what? Yeah. Have you noticed that pattern in men mainly?

Absolutely. I've noticed it in everyone that I've coached. And the reason why this happens, by the way, is for women growing up, when we're a young kid, we don't have to do anything to get unconditional love. Right. When we're zero to three years old, maybe even two years old, you can be drawing on the walls or you can be. You can shit your pants at 2 years old, your caregivers are still going to love you. Try doing that at 30 years old. Try doing that at 25 years old. It's not going to work. So what happens is, as a young kid, you're getting all this unconditional love and you're like, wow, like, I don't have to do anything and I get unconditional love. But there's a point in time. The reason why that happens, by the way, is because of oxytocin. Oxytocin is the chemical that is released that creates an unconditional love. And at the same time, there's a point in parents where that starts to fade away a little bit. And what happens is unconditional love start to become a little bit conditional. So you may notice as a little kid, we're constantly scanning our environment for, what is it that's giving me love? What is it that's taken away love? And the very second that we start notice those little shifts that were like, oh, wait, I'm not getting that unconditional love anymore. There's two primary fears that show up in our body or in our mind that I'm not going to be enough And I'm not going to be loved. So what we start to do is we're meaning making machines. So we start to look at scanning my environment. Oh, when I, when I do this thing dad gives me love. When I achieve, when I'm doing good in school or when I, when I make a joke, that's when my dad runs over and gives me a big hug and he starts laughing. So a comedian is born. Born. Or a class clown is born. Or when I, when I do really good in sports and my dad loves on me. Okay, so an overachiever is born. Right. And it starts to play out in other areas of our life. So the question I want to ask ourselves is whose love did I crave the most growing up? And who did I, who did I have to be for that person? And who could I never be? Because that's going to give you a template of your personality. Your personality isn't actually your personality. Most of our personalities was created as a behavioral adaptation to get the love that we were craving from one of our primary caregivers, from one of our caregivers, the caregivers who's love that we're craving. So that's really, really important to know. Coming back to what you mentioned at the start, like how do we understand ourselves? That's something that I teach to really get to know. What is it like what, what is it that you've borrowed and what is it that you made up because you wanting to make dad happy, mom happy, your auntie happy, whoever it was that was your caregiver happy. So really important.

That's fucking powerful. Once that clicks and you start to understand that going back to the emotional needs you, and this is what I am assuming you guide people through in your programs, is how to then go inward and meet those needs so that you're no longer relying on it being met externally, needing external validation. So what is some of the most powerful practices or exercises that you guide people through to help them be able to I guess, meet some of these needs internally?

Yeah. And so I'll definitely share that. And at the same time, time, one thing that I also teach is it's not about never relying on any type of external validation. Because my belief is just my truth. My truth is that what comes with a starter pack of being human is an ego. And a lot of people's like, I'm going to meditate and get rid of my ego. It's like the ego is going to be there like trying to get rid of the ego. Maybe that's Actually ego, right? There's this pattern within us of like trying to be, trying to never get any type of external validation, but we're fucking human. I'll share a story on this and then I'll come back to the original question. So one of the things that I've struggled with a lot from a childhood wound of getting bullied because of the way that my body looked was body image issues. And I've done so much inner child healing, so much shadow work, so much trauma release on this, like hours and hours and hours and hours and hours. And at the same time, one thing that helps me, one of the things that activates so much joy within me is when my girlfriend compliments me and she's like, I love your body. I like, you look sexy right now. So. So it's not about I need to just tell myself that I look sexy and never rely on anyone else. I'm going to give that to myself. And at the same time, when there's times where people find it hard to love themselves, it really helps to get love from an external source because that's happened to me sometimes multiple times where I'm like, I'm finding it hard to love on my body right now because old trauma is coming in. But then my amazing, beautiful girlfriend reminds me of like, I really love your body. You were super sexy. I'm like, oh, damn, you know what, I actually am pretty sexy. So it like helps me. So it's not about never getting any external validation. The question is it's just like, at what level? You know? So one of the things coming back into inner child work, there's a term called reparenting. And reparenting is one form of this is finding out what needs weren't met. Where was I? Where wasn't I seen? Where wasn't I physically comforted? Where didn't I have a safe space for self expression? And where it was. And I heard so. So one of the needs that I believe we all have is the need to be validated. And what I mean by this is let's say that I'm feeling an emotion and I'm feeling sad. A lot of us, especially men, were like, man up, wipe those tears off your face. Just, yeah, you fell over. Just like wipe it off. Get back up instead of, yo, yeah, that hurts. You're allowed to cry. Those tears are totally natural. Yeah, you're allowed to feel that way. It's totally appropriate for you to be crying right now, for you to feel sad based on all the shit that's Been happening in your day day. A lot of us didn't have that. So being able to give that to ourselves or being able to give ourselves a space for self expression, whether it be to just go and dance. It's like I feel so timid and I feel like I can't be in my body. So just creating that space for yourself to be like, you know what? I'm going to close all of my curtains and I'm just going to dance for 30 minutes a day and I'm just going to give my, that little seven year old me who got taught that dancing is gay or dancing is girly or dancing is what feeling the gay gap. I'm going to give that little seven year old me the safe space to just go crazy right now to dance. However it is that the little seven year old me wants to dance and move, you know, so there's multiple ways that we can do this, but those are, those are just some examples.

Thank you, thank you for sharing. That definitely resonate and really, really good insight around the external validation part as well. It is, you're very right about that both and, and yeah, just on what you mentioned there, like coming back to myself growing up I had a lot of difficulty expressing myself because of the. Because my dad would shut me down if I was too loud or being too noisy or whatever. And some of my biggest fears growing up were public speaking. Like a fear of speaking and being seen in large crowds and dancing. Couldn't dance. I was very restricted, very blocked from dance. And I was going to ask you, but I'll share some of the most powerful experiences I've done. First, two of the most powerful experiences I've done in the last couple of years was conquering my fear of public speaking through doing a speaking competition and recently doing a men's dance program. A men's sexual. And actually the guy who runs it knows you. Douglas? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's awesome, great guy. And he's doing really powerful work with men because he's supporting us to get back into our bodies and express through dance. And I have had such a powerful experience over the last six months doing that with him. And I'm curious to know for yourself what has been some of the most transformative experiences that have helped you unlock deeper levels of your own self connection and self expression.

Great question. So dance has definitely helped me out and I'll, I'll share a story about this because for a very, very long time and it still comes up to this day. But I remember compared to years and years ago, it's. It shifted so much. There was a time where it was about, or probably three, three to four years ago. And I was at this workshop and I was helping. It was called Being a guardian, which is kind of like a person that just supports the workshop. And I was in the back and I remember it was the very first day, so nobody has walked in yet. And then instructor said, okay, open the doors. Music started playing and hundreds of people were walking in. About over 100 people were walking in and out of the crowd. There was one lady that I heard out of everyone, she was just so loud and she was just using her voice. And within the very first, first probably five minutes, a dance, she spawned a dance circle, right? And I was sitting at the back and I was like, who's this girl? And then throughout the whole first day, she was raising her hand, she was using a voice, she was taking up space. And I don't know if anyone here, anyone listening has ever experienced this before where it's like there's something about someone that just triggers you and you're like, I don't like this person. I don't know why, but I just don't like this person. And that's what was happening within me. And I didn't know why. So the day ended, it was a two day workshop. The day ended, I went back to my hotel where I was staying at. And I was, it was at nighttime and I was just sitting there, there laying down. And I was like, what is it within me that is so triggered by this person? Because it's not. She's not doing anything. She is. There's something about her that I just feel so triggered by. And then it clicked. I said to myself, the next day, I'm going to go over to her and just share and thank her for what I just became aware of. So second day comes about and I walk in and she's in there early in the morning filling up a water bottle. And I walk on over to her and I say, hey, this is going to sound super random and you may not, you may be confused, but I just want to share this. I just want to say thank you, you. And she's like, why? What are you. Like why? What are you thanking me for? And I just want to say thank you because yesterday you really, really triggered me. And I didn't understand why, but what I found was you were just reflecting back to me. The aspects of me that didn't feel safe or didn't feel okay with taking up space, using my voice and being so unapologetically expressive. And I just want to say thank you for mirroring that back to me. And she's like, no worries, okay. And she didn't really kind of get up and she just went back. And then what I said to myself in that moment was like, okay, I've just, she was, she was just the mirror. She was the trigger was a mirror. And I said to myself that the next time that there's a dance circle formed, I'm going to go in there, I'm going to start dancing. So one of the things that we teach in my program is to do the exact opposite of what your ego wants you to do. So the dance circle was formed and my hands were shaking, my heart was racing because I just, I had such a big fear of being seen and just dancing and just being acknowledged like that. And I was like, I'm just going in. This music started blasting and I just jumped in and in the midst of hands shaking, heart racing, I was just moving my body and being seen by over a hundred people in the dance circle. And then I came out and my heart was still beating. But what I did was I was just breathing while cheering to other people who were in the dance circle. And I was like, you're safe, it's okay. Just a little seven year old me who got all this conditioning. It's okay. Like, yeah, see, nothing bad happened. You didn't die. I'm here, I got you. And, and it was a very transformative experience for me because I just got reminded that people who are triggering me are teaching me. People who are triggering me are mirroring back to me the aspects of myself where I don't feel safe, I don't feel unapologetically expressive. It was all just a mirror. So that's one example. Dancing has definitely helped me out in that way. And it's not big events, it's just looking at who's triggering me. What is it about this person that's triggering me that is a mirror to an aspect of myself that I don't feel totally okay with. So that's, that's, that's an example of that.

Wow, thank you. Thank you, man. I can so relate to that. And it makes so much sense the way you shared it. You know, that loud, expressive people would always trigger something in me and I would always have a grudge towards them because it was, yeah, that suppressed part of me that I had ignored that was in the shadow that I was told was bad. So, yeah, powerful that life is, is the Mirror and I'm cur for yourself because you've really stepped into more self expression online through your platforms and me included. This is something that I realized was a part of my purpose after overcoming that fear of being seen, the fear of speaking up.

Right.

The fear of putting my voice out there, that I now make a lot of content where I'm speaking and I'm speaking my truth for yourself. Where have you or what has allowed you to kind of take that to the next level, whether it be through TikTok or through whatever platforms that you're sharing, sharing your truth and expressing. You've got a big audience, man. And I'm sure, you know, I've, I've even myself noticed times where people with people say bad things about me online. It initially it was like a trigger. I was like, oh shit. Like, man, this is, it's not easy, like copying hate from other people. You're being very vulnerable and courageous. How has that process been for you and has there been certain levels that you hit where it brought up more stuff in your, in you and more work? I'm curious.

Totally. So I'd love to share another, another story about it because this can help in multiple different areas. So one of the things that has really helped me and anyone can do this when they're dating, when they're in relationships or in any area of their life. It's the difference between setting goals versus setting intentions. And one of my mentors, Kyle Cease, was the one who first gave me this awareness. So credit to him. I didn't create this. He was one that gave me this idea of like, I can set a goal to be like, I want this and I want this achievement, I want this achievement. And all those things are totally, totally amazing. And I like to do both. Right. The challenge though is that I could get to a certain amount of, let's say an audience size. However, how I get there is much more important than actually getting there. Who I become in that process is much more important than just getting to that number. So one of the things that I set before I even started, no, it was actually just in the middle of. Just When I started TikTok, I set an intention and I put it on my big ass whiteboard. Not this one, but another whiteboard that I had, which was to become unapologetically expressive. And it wasn't specific. I purposely left it ambiguous. So that could look like dancing, that could look like whatever it might be. But it's being able to express myself unapologetically. And I don't know how that's going to come about, but I just know that it's going to. I'm just excited to see what results emerge from me embodying that. And then also it was play. So how I started to create content was I need to be posting seven times a day. I need to be posting, posting this many times a day. It was coming from a space of let me just unapologetically express myself and play and have fun. So content creation became so joyful and easy because I wasn't trying to make it happen. I wasn't trying to create, I was just trying to play. And as a result of that, the creating started to happen. Just like when you're a little kid, you don't go, I'm going to create some Lego. Just like, I'm just going to play, let me just, let me just build this. Let me just have fun here. And as a result, you can build like these amazing. Like, even if you're building a sand castle in, when you're, when you're a little kid, you're not going, I need to create a sandcastle. You're like, I just want to have fun and let me just see what happens. And as a kid, you probably, I don't know about you, but I built some like, amazing sand castles that had underground tunnels and water coming through. And I just had so much fun with it. Right? So you can do that in business, in life, in dating, you can. Like, for example, if someone hasn't been able to play with their ability to speak up or receive or surrender, that could be an intention for this person I'm dating. I'm going to play with surrendering. I want someone to just. I want someone to lead and I want someone to make the plans. And I want, and I want to set the intention that I'm going to surrender. I want to speak up about what I want. So just as that intention, you might notice that you start speaking up about, hey, I'd really love for you to take me on a date, or I'd really love for you to pay, or I really want to pay, or whatever it might be. So. So that's an example of that. But when I did start to build my business, yeah, definitely, every single day there's some type of comment that is a quote unquote, hate comment. And a story that has really, really helped me, that's helped me in multiple areas of my life is a story that happened with Martin Luther King. And there was a time where he was speaking at a rally and he was walking through this sea of people and those people who were supporting him, and there were obviously people that weren't happy with what he was doing and speaking up about everything. And as he was walking through the sea of people, there was one man that stood in of him and then he just spat in his face. That's a gross sound, but like, just for sound effects, like, he spat in Martin Luther King's face. And Martin Luther King looked at him and he paused and he just took a deep breath and he went into his back pocket and he got a handkerchief out and he just wiped all the spit off his face and then he handed it to the man and he said, I believe this belongs to you. And I think. Deal. It's an amazing metaphor that I always just come back to whenever I receive comments and people are spitting their opinions, spitting their hate, spitting and projecting their trauma and projections onto me. And I'm just like, oh, this doesn't belong to me. This belongs to you. And you can do that. If someone's experiencing conflict at work or with friends or with a ex partner and they're like just spitting whatever it is on to you, just remember it's like that. That's not yours. That's not yours to emotionally babysit. That's not. That's not your responsibility to be with. That's their shit, you know?

Well, sad man. What a beautiful, beautiful share. Beautiful story. And just back to the connection there with us getting triggered in the past by expressive people. It's because we. We had suppressed that part in us. So we're kind of internally spitting hate at them, the people spitting hate at us online. And it's just. They've just suppressed that part that they see in us. So now that when you do this work, you can see it from that lens, you can see it from that perspective and have this lens that you have now where it's like, hey, it's not their fault. They just don't see it. They haven't seen or been able to go within themselves to acknowledge that. So I guess that goes with anyone who's. Who's sharing stuff on social media. When you realize that or recognize that they can kind of like deflect off you. It's kind of like you have this. You're sort of bulletproof to hate comments because there are out there and some nasty hate comments that I've seen. Um, but when I have that reminder like you just had, it's. It doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't really get below the surface. Um, mate, I'm super mindful, mindful of your time here. I know we're getting later in the afternoon, but I've got, I've got one more main question that I'm very curious to ask you. What has been some of the most important boundaries that you have set up in your, your relationship and in your business? And we can start with the relationship boundary. What's been some really important boundary that you've set?

That's a really good question. Think about that one. What's, what's a boundary that we've set? So there's been. So we have a monthly relationship check in and every single month there might be different things that were that, that are expressed. We have a whole list of questions that we go through. We go through something in the beginning which is called withholds. Anything that we may have not said that we just want to share to just get it off our chest or something that we've been hold or harboring some type of resentment like mini or resistance. And we're just sharing that so it doesn't get to the point where it does turn into resentment. So we're not, we're like killing the monster while it's little, you know, so it always changes. But I can't really think of any big things in our relationship. Obviously there's big ones. Like, you know, it's a monogamous relationship. So that's a big one that we spoke about very early on in the relationship. But there are some other ones around. How much time do we need? Time alone and just being able to honor that and uh, things like that. But I can't really think of any other big things other than what I've just mentioned. But there's like little things that do come up every now and then for sure.

Do you got, do you guys live together or.

Well, where we're at right now, it's like called a guest house here in Bali. So it's like I got this room here and then she has the same setup as me, but like two doors down. So it's a gotcha, 16 second walk to her room, right? Yeah. And I love it that way. Like, I love how we have our own space and she has her own space and we can just like see each other whenever we want and. Yeah, I love that.

Yeah. I almost feel like that's really important to have. Yeah.

Yes.

That's obviously brought up. That's brought up a lot of stuff for my partner and I because we've gone from living together in a small little apartment in Toronto. And that brought up a lot of shit for us that we got to work through. And now moving out here, we're also in a, in a small apartment. And when lockdown happened, it. And I know a lot of people can relate to this as well. When, when you're forced to be at home with your partner where there's not a lot of space and you're working around each other, that's when it got. You got to. The boundaries were tested. That's where you had to get clear on what your boundaries were because the resentment would come in quick and you would take things out on your partner even though it wasn't their fault. You were just, you just needed space. Your inner child was just crying out for some alone time with you and you just start spitting anger at the other person. So, yeah, I bring that up just because in my life these boundaries were tested and I got clear on, you know, say after I get off a coaching call with a client, I'm noticing for myself that I got to take some space, even if it's just 15 or so minutes before I, I jump into spending time with my partner because I know I can't be fully present with her. And what happens is there is like this subtle, you know, part of me that just wants to be on my own and it affects the quality of the connection that we have. And I've only learned that through making the mistake a lot of times. Thinking, doing the people pleasing pattern. You're going, oh no, I'm good, let's go, let's go. And yeah, I've just been emotionally checked out, you know, energetically.

Not there, bro. That's so huge. Being able to honor yourself. I think that for a lot of people, listening can, can relate to that. And something that I'm constantly practicing around. Where am I? And no. And I say yes. And it could show up in multiple areas. Like it could be when your partner asks you for sex or the person that you're dating asks you for sex and your body's like no, and you just say yes. Or where is it that you, you're no to going out and meeting for coffee with someone, having lunch with someone, having dinner for someone, but you just say yes. So I think that that's constantly a practice for me is to be able to honor my truth and to do that by checking in the body to not just say yes straight away. Because especially with people who may not trust themselves, it's probably because of that pattern of saying yes to something when you're a no. And there's so many reference experiences of not honoring yourself that there's not trust there. So I think that for me, what's really supported me is the pause between making before making the decision. So instead of saying someone saying, like, hey, you want to meet up? Or hey, do you want to do this? Let me just pause for a second and let me just check in with my body. Or I say, I can't make that commitment right now because I'm unclear. So let me just sit with it and then make a decision. Not right now, because I'm not. I'm not completely sure. And I think that that's really helped me because it's helped me to be my word and honor my decisions and follow through with my decisions. And if I can't make that decision there and then, then I'll need time or renegotiate my commitments. So, yeah, super important.

Yeah. Emphasis on the importance of the communication and being able to set the boundaries because it's all well and good if you know what it is that you need. You know that your inner child needs attention and love. But if you don't know how to set those boundaries up and you don't have poor communication, it can come across the wrong way. Or you're not just able to really nourish yourself because you don't have any space in your life. So I'm actually realizing how important boundaries are just because I notice a lot of people struggle with that. A lot of people struggle with communicating that.

I think that the biggest thing that I just wanted to share about that is a lot of our. Not just in a relationship, but especially as a lot of we have so many conversations around when it comes to sex. What are our yeses, what are our nos? What is it that we lac. What is it that we dislike? And just being able to put that all in table. So we're not guessing, you know, we know what. I know what it is that Kelly lacks, and I know what's a no for her. And that can't happen until we look at the relationship with ourselves and ask ourselves, like, what do I like? What do I dislike? What am I yes to? What am I? Maybe to exploring and what am I a hell fuck no to? Like, this is just off the table. And then being able to communicate that. And that can also happen in relationships. You know, like, knowing how it is that you desire to be treated is really, really important because if we don't know that, then it's very hard for us to express our boundaries because the Boundaries do stem from understanding ourselves, you know.

Yeah. And I almost feel like that's a. That's a whole nother rabbit hole we go down around communication and the sexual embodiment stuff that. I know you guys because your partner does.

She.

She's a coach as well. Around.

Yeah.

Intimacy.

More so with. Yeah. More so with women, though, not more so like it's with women. She doesn't work with men. Right.

Yes. And. And you're right. There is. There is that another layer to that in the. You know, from a sexual standpoint, because that's a really big area of trauma for people, and it's also a really big area for growth when it comes to spiritual connection, nurturing, and your connection with your partner. And, yeah, that's. That's a whole nother topic of another conversation. But I've definitely noticed in myself some of the sexual shame that I had and how it was blocking me from connecting with my partner and also myself. So there was. There's so much work that we do in those areas that sometimes we don't look at initially.

Absolutely, man.

Huge one, man. I'm very grateful for your time here today, Matt, and it's been a really enjoyable conversation. Something that I feel like, you know, I could keep going for hours with you. I very much resonate with the way that you work, the language that you speak. And yeah, it's a shame that you're. You're in Bali and we can't catch up in person, but I know one day, you never know, stars might align. Yeah. But, man, tell me, where can people connect you online? Where can people learn more about what you're up to?

Yeah, you can go to matt karma.com C A M A is my last name. Or you can go to. Just type in Matt Karma and every single platform and you'll find me on there. So, yeah, every single TikTok king right.

Here pumping out some of the best steps in personal development. Yes.

Thank you, bro. I appreciate that.

Hey, man. Of course, brother. Thank you again for coming on here. This is fun. And this won't be the last time we have one of these conversations.

I can. For sure. Thanks, brother.

Thanks, bro. Hey, there we have it, guys. Thanks so much for listening to this episode. And yeah, look, if you made it this far, cool. Here's my voice again in your ear. And I'm going to make one more request for you is go ahead and subscribe and leave a comment on the podcast page because I'm really putting a lot of focus and attention on getting this podcast out to more people because I know, I know what I'm putting in here can serve and bring value to people. And it would mean a lot if you got value from this to leave some feedback and subscribe. So you stay up to date with what's coming up and as always, follow me on Instagram and love hearing from you.

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State Shifters until the next episode. Guys, thank you so much and I appreciate you.