SSP 108: Ryan Tyrrell: A Pro Athletes Journey from Addiction to Healing

Hello, beautiful soul. Welcome back to the State Shifters Podcast. Jordan Kamlish here, Pumped to dive into another conversation with you. This one is a special guest who is a former client of mine, and it's the first client that I've brought onto the podcast as a guest, which is really special. And as you're about to find out, that the gentleman that I've brought on here is a. He's a really unique and special person to me. And the reason why this podcast is gonna be so impactful today is because we dive into some topics that are not often spoken about as men, and in particular, men's mental health. Because my guest and client in this episode, his name is Ryan Tyrrell. And Ryan has been through quite a journey in his life, and he's gone through some radical highs and some really dark, deep lows that I wanted to share his story because I know there's lots of other people, especially men.

Some.

Of the mental health difficulties that Ryan has spoken about, that it is sometimes very lonely when we get to these places. So this story that Ryan's going to share will allow you to see what can happen when you hit a level of success in your life, a level of achievement, without really acknowledging what's happening underneath. And this is so common for high achievers. Right. We have this immense drive to get things done, but we often overlook some of the emotional signs or the. The emotional indicators that's asking for our attention. So Ryan's a performer, professional rugby player. He is the master at achieving, but now I've helped him, turn him. Turn him into a master of feeling as well. So super pumped for this one, guys. Enjoy this conversation with Mr. Ryan Tyrell.

Welcome to the State Shifters Podcast, a show dedicated to helping you discover your.

True potential through connecting the mind, body and soul. Mr. Ryan Tyrrell. Welcome to the State Shifters podcast, brother. We made it. How are you, mate?

I'm good. I'm good. Good. Good trip up from Rockingham.

Yes, as always.

I'm always excited to see you, man.

I. I think you are my first client who I've had on the podcast.

Yeah, nice. Yeah, we called this early, I think. I think you called it early.

Yes, I did. I did.

And I held it to you ever since.

Yeah, this seed got planted probably six months ago when yeah first started working together. And I knew straight away, through working with you and through understanding and learning more about you, that you have a tremendous gift and a talent. And your story is so powerful that I wanted to have you on here at some stage when the time was Right. To share that and to share about this. This beautiful journey that you've been on, that I've been honored to be a part of. But, bro, why don't you tell people listening or watching, you know, what's got you to this point where we're sitting here having this conversation and tell people a little bit about your background and some of the epic things you've done in your life so far.

Yeah, thanks for that and I really appreciate it. And still getting used to receiving such amazing compliments, I think, you know that. But, man, we're getting there. And a lot of it's thanks to you and a lot of good men I've had in my life. So we'll start with the first question, I guess. So what's got me here today? In a lot of ways, it was just having enough of or reaching a moment in my life where I was just sick and tired of the way I was living. And, yeah, like, I'd had a lot. I've achieved a lot of things in my life. You know, I realize that now, but up until this probably six months ago, I was heavily spinning my wheels, I believe, like, in not all areas of my life. Like, I was still relatively happy. I had a secure job, like, my family's pretty solid. I was living with my brother, having a great time, getting after it. But there was just something lacking. And I was definitely, definitely reaching out for things almost to numb myself or just. Just to get through life. I was a. You know, I was a copper, you know that. And I guess I was struggling with my identity in that job. Like, I was struggling a little bit with that. I was probably three or four years in, I just started questioning as the. Is this in my alignment? Is this job for me? So while that was going on, I guess I was drinking a lot.

Yeah.

And just numbing myself, really. I was existing. I wasn't living. And to come to our fruition where we met each other, you know, I was in Darwin and we met a mutual friend and my brother who's been super helpful in everything that I've done. My rugby, and it's given me the confidence to. Or be here today. He just said, go to Darwin and whatever comes your way, just say yes to it. And because I was living a very comfortable existence, was very happy, staying home on the weekends, watching a lot of rugby, drinking a lot of beer with my brother, you know, and that was, you know, I look back at that. Still kind of fun in a way, but it's no way to live, right? And Our paths crossed through a mutual friend. And I know we were down south together for a bit, and I told you this story a few times. I just like the cut of your rug, bro. Like, I just like the way you handled yourself and the way you live. And I, you know, we didn't know each other, did we? And you took me out with Amanda, your partner, and we had a amazing day and we watched some rugby together. But, yeah, it wasn't really used to being around people who are really. I don't say getting after life, but maybe just had some high standards. Well, I hadn't been around that for a long time. I forgot myself a bit after my professional rugby. And, yeah, after that weekend away, I reached out to our friend and we got. I didn't know you were life coach. You know, I didn't really know what life coaching was to a degree, but for me, I was like, whatever he's doing, you being that, being you, I need to do it. Well, we'll start doing it and the rest is history, I guess. And then we dropped in pretty quickly, didn't we?

Yeah. And then I realized something very quickly about you that made you unique. And I've worked with hundreds of people at this stage, and there was something about you that really stood out straight away, and it was your level of commitment. And I learned very quickly where that commitment came from. And I resonated so much with, like, your upbringing and your values and the way you live your life. And learning about the fact that you're former professional rugby player really, you know, made me realize where that commitment was coming from. Because to reach professional at any level requires dedication, discipline, commitment to a certain level that the majority will never get to. And you then channeled all of this commitment and discipline into working on yourself through investing in yourself with me. And then the way you showed up throughout the six months that we got to work together was like, wow, this is. This is a man who's. Who's committed. So tell me a little bit about where you learned to embody those attributes, to hold those character traits that allowed you to achieve such a level of success in your sporting career, but now that you've transferred it across into the way you're choosing to live your life. So where did that all come from? And tell me a little about your journey through rugby.

I think, well, I definitely notice a lot. I haven't been sure of a lot of things in life, but I know from an early age, from 15, 16, I was like, I'm going to be a professional Rugby player. And I had that intention unbeknownst to myself at that time. And we used to get a lot of magazines that sent from the uk because my folks are originally from the uk, I just get rugby magazines sent over all the time. And my. My thing would, I guess, my story or whatever I wanted to do at that time, what I was telling myself was I'll play super rugby and I'll play internationally as well on Heineken Kap or I wanted to play overseas. And at the time Perth didn't have a super rugby program. So we're sort of the poorer cousins when it came to rugby a bit. How I really. How I dropped in, I guess, or really dedicated myself at that age, in a way is from my dad. And we can talk about that at length. But I don't agree with the way he went about things all the time and especially the way he treated me around rugby. His standards were much higher than mine and I see that in myself now. So in a way, he created the man I am today and he definitely created the rugby player. My brother and I talk about this. We. I don't think I would have been. We definitely not had the aggression and maybe the mindset or the internal fortitude just to turn up, you know, and that's what I've learned about myself as a professional. Even though I lost my way. And I like to talk on that as well. Like, I just knew I could turn up and like when the tough get going, you know, I could just be there and it didn't really matter in the score because I think this is my. Some of my brothers the other day and you know, it's the first time I've spoken to my brothers about my rugby as well, because as we'll get to like, you know, disappeared from the scene in a way. And I've been part of a lot of losing teams and for me, I think that just built more resilience because I've stood behind the goalpost a lot of times and with other guys and I could see the guys were willing to go back out there and sack up or whatever you want to call it or just, you know, really like turn it back on and no matter what the score is. And I think that's a good analogy for life really because we, you know, we have some wins, man. And even after six months of all this internal work I'm doing and, you know, I'm cracked wide open now, like, I believe truly, truly, I'm living from love for the first time in my life. And that's been a huge, huge change for me. And. But I still have days. I still have days, but they're just days now or they're just. They're just moments in time. They don't end up being weeks or years, which I've had trouble with mental health in the past. And that's. So that's the big difference. And I think you and I spoke about. No matter all the work I did, the real gift for me was me being able to get out of my own way and just being reattached to my family and being open. And that was just the. Yeah, so you helped me with that. And I'm digressing from my rugby chat a bit here.

That's right. I want to. I want to share with people as well why. Why we had such a connection. And. And I really do believe that there is, like, a soul connection that. Soul brothers that I felt with you. I've been so grateful for the fact that, like, a client has turned into one of my best friends, but thank you. I grew up wanting to be a professional soccer player. Like, committed, like, certain. In my mind. Yeah. That's what I'm gonna be. And I trained every day with that plan. And I soon realized that how much sacrifice is required, how much mindset. How much of a certain mindset is required to make it professional? And I made it semi professional, which I'm still proud of, that achievement.

Yeah. As you should.

But whenever I meet someone who makes it professional in a sport, I know how much commitment is required to achieve that. So I want people to realize that, you know, that there is something you've achieved in your life that most people dream of. I dreamed of and could never achieve it. So when I got to. Yeah. Learn about your story, it was interesting because I made a connection or a parallel between the way my dad raised me and the way your dad raised you.

Yeah.

And there's almost this, like, this extra level of intensity that your dad brought to how he fathered you.

He did that.

Maybe got you to that.

That was the German for sure. But, you know, I love my dad deep. And, you know, I quick digress on the story, but we went to Rottnest together tomorrow and, man, we had a massive argument yesterday. Right? Yesterday. Sorry, yeah. Tomorrow we had a massive argument in the car. We didn't got out of Rockingham yet, and my poor mum and other brother were in the back. So I guess that shows. Like, we've come so far and our relationship is mending and repairing, but we still have our days. We still have our days. And you know, with all my work I've done and the hardest thing was coming back, moving back from Perth, back to Rockingham to be closer with my family because there was a lot of escapism through my rugby as well, you know, I moved interstate. I just turned 18 and had to apply my trade over there in Queensland for a while, which is great, you know and, and then when the Western force started up I, I didn't even know I was in the academy actually. I just came, I came home like I was homesick dude, you know, I was still a bit of a softie at heart and I miss my family. I love my family dearly. So when I came back, it's funny you bring that up because we drove past Alcoa on the way back from Rottnest and Alcoa for anyone doesn't know is like aluminium.

Yeah, aluminum. Aluminum. And Rottnest is an island off Western Australia for those who are not from around here.

Yeah, apologies for. I'm talking like everyone knows Perth, it's a huge refinery and we're driving past and has a certain smell, you know as well. So that's just like nostalgic in the worst ways for me. And my dad's worked there and my brother's worked there as well and I was just like, you know, I take my hat off for people working there but that's what doing. So I was starting scaffolding at 7 in the morning till 3:34 and then I'd drive up to Perry Lakes which is about a 45 minute drive with some other lads from Rockingham. There's a few of us in the academy at the time. And then we trained from like 4:30 to about 8:30 or something and then we'd all jump back in the car, boot it back to Rockingham, sleep and then repeat. And that was like six days a week. And now I just, that baffles me. But at the time there was no question and that's an interesting mindset to have. Like I don't know if it was overly healthy but it got me where I wanted to go. And maybe I had a higher reason for playing rugby because I love rugby dearly and I've come back to it and really embraced it now. But I was never, it was never, I knew it was never who I was deep down, you know, people associated me with rugby and it's opened so many doors and the friends I've made is just, I'm so grateful, so grateful. For my career and my opportunity. I never made a lot of money, but the friendships and the travel was just second to none. And that's just kept me going. That's kept me going.

I want to get to the point in your rugby journey where everything shifted and everything changed in your life, because there was a very specific time when that happened. Before we. Before we go there. I'm curious to get your perspective on this, because now, because we related so much to our upbringing and the way our dads raised us, there was a very. I saw similar father wounds in you that I experienced from my d. Through some of the. The trauma around Shang. Around. Not when we didn't perform. There was a level of perfectionism. Yeah. And we were. We received love conditionally based on how we performed.

Yes. Yeah.

And this is a common thing for a lot of people who had strict, strict fathers, fathers who raised them with a. With a high level of discipline. It creates this person or this man or woman who is often disconnected from their emotions, which allows for a certain level of achievement. We're driven to achieve because we have a program, a programming in our subconscious that says we must achieve to receive love.

Yes. Yes. And when you achieve that, like, it's almost. Sometimes it can be empty. You know what I mean? And my brother was thrown by that completely when I told him and shared my time, especially at the force, you know, like, I guess, in a lot of ways. And that's funny you bring that up. So my dad's perspective on me, I guess, and my rugby shifted when I became a professional athlete. He was my number one supporter. And that's to say he didn't support me when I was growing up because he was always there and dropping me off. And, you know, he's a great father, but I believe he lived vicariously through me. And now I know because, you know, I'm critical of myself. And if I'm hard on anyone else, I'm doubly hard on myself. And in my way, I saw that through my dad. And, like. And he was a good rugby player, you know, and he's a young. I was still probably part of the era. I know there's some young professionals out there, but, like, at 16, 17, I was playing, you know, against adults, and there's fucking something to be said about that. You know what I mean? And would I have my son doing that? Probably not.

Yeah. Like, not just playing, like, running into adults and tackling them. Different from the football round ball, soccer game.

Yeah. And I see. I see lads. I love watching Rugby now. And I just look at some of these boys on there and I'm just like, I'll pass on that one, thank you. I've been a human battering ram for a long time and yeah, there's a certain mindset that you need to be able to be solid in yourself to not let anyone sort of come through. And my biggest thing when I was playing, when I was an athlete and especially when I was on TV or something, I'd be horrified if I made a mistake. Like one mistake in a game for me could dismantle a whole potentially a good game. I could be played well for 90 and I could have compliments after that. And I think that was the reason why I never used to watch footage of my game or anything like that. Now I understand that deeply. You know, there was. I was playing small and I was playing small in a big environment. I was playing small in the place in my dream job as well, which. Yeah. And I don't want to paint it as all doom and gloom because I really came alive after my forced career and I went to Cardiff, like that was. That was big for me. But I won't get too far ahead. I guess if I want you, I can talk in my force career.

Yeah, well. Well, it's almost like my short force career. Yeah. But there's. There's almost this point right in the higher achiever, the man who has father wounds, who suppresses his emotions and uses achievement to cope. There comes a point where, and I'm curious to hear, how do you arrive at this point in your journey where you can achieve your chief professional rugby? You achieved all of these things, but it still wasn't fulfilling you emotionally. There was still wounding down there that was like bubbling to the surface. And, and we see this, or I saw this in my life through constant self judgment and self criticism.

Yeah.

And bringing myself down and never feeling like I was doing enough, always feeling guilty for, you know, how I was performing, not achieving for you, it hit a point where you achieved an amazing accomplishment, getting to play in Cardiff and then having an opportunity to come back and play again in Australia and. Yeah, dude, walk us through what transpired after you hit this point where you're seemingly at the peak of your career and then all of a sudden your emotions started to rise to the surface.

Yeah, A caveat to that. I'll start with the force as well, because I talk about my neck injury, which is probably maybe a catalyst for that as well. But yeah, even, you know, put a lot of credence On. On rugby, you know, I guess that's all I had in a lot of ways. You know, my relationships were there, but not so much. Not so much with women. But yeah, we can talk about that as well. But yes, I hurt my neck in my fourth game for the Force, but I'd had a bad neck going into that game as well. And I was playing against the Waratahs here in Perth and showing my vintage was like 2010, maybe 11 or 2010. And yeah, maybe you can talk on this as the high achievers that I did, it's probably because I had one channel. There was so much emphasis. And by failing or not getting a lineup straight or dropping a pass, like, my world could crumble. And an example is my first game against the Queensland Reds. And so for no rugby people out there, I mean, throwing line outs is like an acquired skill. You know, it's similar to maybe goal kicking as well, but there's more elements. There's human behavior, there can be wind. And I wasn't used to playing the position I'd signed in, so I grew up playing flanker and that was where my heart was at, really. But the carrot was dangled. And to play hooker and make a transition into the front row and any front rowers out there, man, like, I get that, like, that's a heavy job. And I used to sit on the side of the scrum and, you know, have my good time and. But if you get up in like the wheelhouse or the engine room, that's a different kettle of fish as well. And I really enjoyed that after a while. But I had a bad head knock, I think, in South Africa, and I carried that through to a game against the Waratahs and I was having to take tramadol before the games just to play, so. And at the same time, my mental health was probably declining at this stage. Well, I guess maybe I'd finally got. I'd reached my pinnacle of what I thought was going to be my everything. And once I was in it, maybe the pressure, the pain in my neck, you know, it just became a little bit too much. But on my last game when I was against the Waratahs and trying to play like, man, I hit every liner and things were going well, but I. I got a bad head knock in the first five minutes, I think, and I just completely lost feeling in my left arm and I was like, man. And most rugby players go, it's a stinger. And I thought, to be fair, I thought it was that as well. So I kept playing. I Kept playing. And the Waratahs, they're a solid team. There's also a boy playing for that team who I'll give a shout out, man. His name's Pallotto now and he played for the Wallabies. And I used to look up to this man and he is like a human wrecking ball. And I had to keep scrummaging against this guy with my neck and it was just getting worse and worse and I was like, but I can't come off. And I mean, I guess there's self love in that. Well, when I look back on that, there was no way I was coming off that field until they pulled me off or I got knocked out or something. But they finally pulled me off. Thank. And afterwards, like my dad was, I mean, I just remember, I'll never forget this. As you know, I came off and we didn't win like with a force. We were battling a bit. But yeah, I felt good, I felt really good. My dad was there and man, my dad was crying and I gave him a hug and I was just like, I felt like I'd made it and I'd played well enough in my own right to secure my position for the next week. But after that I was just like, I was in a lot of pain and I tried to go to the pub with the boys and for me to leave the pub I must have been in pain. So I just went home and I remember laying there for like a night and I was just like, this is. Something's not right. I just couldn't move. The more I tried, I just couldn't move. I had to lay on the floor for a couple of days and long story short, I got a went to see a radiographer, a surgeon and one dude cleared me to play against the Bulls the next week, which is South African team. And I was like, dude, I've got to be pretty fucking switched on to like come up with these boys. And I'll play through most things, most rugby guys will or most professional athletes will they, you know, I love mma, I love watching fighters and I think most guys talk about they don't get through a training camp without some sort of niggle. So you just get on with it. But I finally saw a good surgeon and we did some imaging and turned out my disc was this like bolt, like pressing right up against my spinal cord. And he was sort of thrown that he asked me when this happened and I was just like, oh, you know, like five minutes in I got a knock to the top of my head. And he was like, man, you're like a bees dick away from being in a wheelchair. So for me that was like. It sounds heavy telling the story as well, but I think, and this is a testament to my mindset or detriment, whatever you want to look at it. Because I was like, okay, cool, so when. What's happened? When can I play? Like, that's all I thought. And my mum found out about it, my parents, and they were just like, just pull the pin. And I was like, no, I've just got a taste. Yeah, I've just had a taste. And I realized I can compete at that level. And so I had neck surgery. I was out for like a year. But my career never really recovered at the force as businesses do, they have to move on and I understand that. So I had a year off, man. And then I. I just went back to Bricky's laboring and stuff like, I guess that that's also. It shows where I was mentally as well because now I would use that platform, which I'm using it now, and come back around full circle, you know, and I would use that platform there to I believe deeply. Because I didn't love myself. I wasn't. I wasn't able to live from a place of love and be of service to others through the rugby community. So I pulled myself back and I went to Rockingham and I was a Bricky's labour again. And my mental health is probably skyrocketing there because I was. Could you imagine how hard I was on myself then when I was back and just fucking treading water a little bit and dealing with this neck and unsure whether I would even come back? And I think I came back and did another preseason with the Force and things are just pushing through, man. I was trying to surf and my neck was bad. And so I took another year off and went back to sc. I went to Scaffolding then. So it was just another. There's like a. I guess there's a pattern in my life where I. And I'm not. I want to make it clear that I'm not on any of these jobs because I had a great time scaffolding as well, like. But I found myself calling back to my friends and I could go back and play small in certain areas and I wasn't willing. It's almost like I've given it my best shot now. Just now it just exists. And that wasn't good. That wasn't even then. It probably wasn't good enough for me. So I had a good friend at that time who was playing at Harlequins in London and he just kept, he just. I think I was only 27, 28, so it wasn't really in my prime. And he was instrumental in getting me over to. Getting me over to London. And I had a partner at the time and, you know, we're close now, she's a good chick, but she was, you know, it was just hard. Two young people and he's 28, still young, you know, and I was just, I was probably hard work to live with as well because I had, you know, I just felt like my career was just taken from, from under me. And yeah, I was very attached to low self worth and no self love. And so I just packed my bags, left this relationship and got on.

So your friend invited you over to London saying, hey, I've got an opportunity out here.

Well, he was just like, he believed in me enough to go, come here and we'll sort something out. And you know, I like that about me, that I had a crack, you know, there was nothing in, there was nothing in concrete. But as I was. It's like a week out from leaving to meeting my mate in Heathrow. I had a call from my old manager and hadn't heard from him for a while and he's like, tiz, what are you up to? And I'm like, oh, mate, scaffolding at the moment. He's like, oh, like Cardiff Blues. And they're, they're a phenomenal club, you know. And even I knew as soon as it's a Cardiff Buddhist, I mean, I know who they are. And he's like, they're looking for a hooker. They're desperate for a hooker. Is there any chance you can get to Heathrow next week? And I'm like, well, dude, I'll be there on Thursday. So this is how, I guess, unbeknownst to myself, where I really probably started trusting in the universe a bit more then, because this, it just fell into my lap in a way. And I got to Heathrow, saw my mate for a bit, met another manager and we shot down to Wales and a good friend of mine had put some like a rugby clip together for me, like, bless him, and he did a good job at that time and I just showed him this clip. There wasn't a lot of footage because they'd only played four or five super rugby games with Perth and I, I gave them this footage and they're like, yep, next thing I know is playing in Italy and they're like, we'll Sign you for a year. And that's how that happened. Happened very fast. I didn't have time to think about it. And for me, Cardiff is weird. It's Cardiff, for me, was coming home. I felt more at home with Cardiff. And I don't know if it was the culture, maybe the culture of the force at that time was different. Yeah, I don't know the Welsh, there was a few Kiwis, there's a few Australians. It was a family. I've never been shown love like that outside of my family and friends. And, yeah, I'm still in touch with these lads as well. And I got deep, deep gratitude for that. And that kicked off that season then. And, yeah, it was cold, blistering cold. I really fell into becoming a front rower and I enjoyed that. Like, I got big, I got fat. Like, I was eating, I was just like. And I always say, like, you know, I'm prone to barrel, right? So I'm always like, I've got to watch what I eat for the most part. And over there, it was almost like a free range because the rugby is different here. It's a faster, quicker game.

Yeah.

Weather over there, I like to keep rugby tight and they like when you're big. And then I enjoyed that because I could drink beers with the boys all the time. There was not a lot of skin folds happening. And I told the story to my mum yesterday, actually. I was just like. I actually accidentally played myself into the team because I still didn't. I was happy enough sitting on the bench there or being part of the wider squad and kind of cruising. And. Yeah, I used to walk up sometimes and look at the team list and if I wasn't on it, I was happy with that. And now I know what that means. But at the time, yeah, I guess, like, my mental health was slipping and when I started slipping and I was. I ended up being diagnosed with ocd. And I know that started from an early age probably, obviously a bit to do with dad, like. But I know Dad's been through his stuff with his farm, his father. I know there's a history of mental health and the health in the family now. I think my father's uncle took his own life. It's not talked about, it's not spoken about much, but I like hearing that now from Mum. And so I can understand myself better and understand my father, because I essentially, my dad and I are the same person a lot of the time. And, yeah, so we back to. Yeah, so I was just getting after it in Cardiff, started making the bench every week and then just started. There were some injuries there, but I mean, I don't want to take anything away of the fact that I was enjoying my rugby and I was playing well and I finally sort of stepped into myself. Then I'm like, I can do this. I can make go of this, you know, and people were giving me compliments and I still wasn't receiving them, but, you know, there's a bit of internal fortitude there.

So at what point did you realize that your mental health was getting quite bad and it was becoming a problem that you couldn't ignore anymore through. Through your, you know, performing and achieving and training? And for those who don't know what OCD is, like, you know what. When did this get to the point of like, debilitating?

Yeah, it's a good question, man. So I guess OCD for me, how it presented itself was with intrusive thoughts. And I think people call this pure ocd. You know, you can fact check that if you want. But so for me it was. That was from an early age, like 19, 20 or 21. Like I would just have intrusive thoughts that I couldn't shake, you know, and some, a lot of them, most of them were just around. Some were about sexual performance, others were around just losing a partner. Yeah, it was all sort of based. There was like two or three of them and it was just. Is repetitive and I didn't understand.

Couldn't. Couldn't get them out of your head, certainly.

So once they, yeah, for me, and I explained this to my brother, I said like, once they dropped in, it was very hard for me to shift that. And it would be like, I'm going to meet a new partner. I'd start thinking about my sexual inadequacies before I'd even. Like, we didn't even. Hadn't even got there yet. Now I understand where that comes from is this. You know, I was seeking love and I didn't think I was worthy of love. And there was some trauma growing up. And so my. That's how my mind just started working. And even when I was sort of getting ready for a game, I could attach myself to like calls and then just start. Like something would drop in and you don't know a call. And I'm like, no, I don't know that call, do I? And then like, no, no, you've got.

It calls it like a line out.

Call or like a game call. You know what I mean? Because this is a funny story. I never forget, like I was sitting In a team meeting once and fucking daydreaming, bro. Which is, like, terrible. And I guess sometimes if I was daydreaming, that might be, like, a piece. There might be peace in my mind. And, like, the coach at the time, John Mitchell, who's like, he's a solid coach. Coach, like, tis, what's this play? And I just started talking, like, just started rattling off, and the boys were, like, looking at me, and I'm like, holy. I've just had a moment here in front of, like, the whole team. But, you know, now I look back at that, and that's hilarious to me. But at the time, it wasn't. Man, like, it was. It was heavy, and I'd be trying to train and I'd. That was the other one. I always. So it was always related to sex. Like, sex or my relationships with women and essentially women not wanting me. The other thing is, I used to. I convinced myself I catch something all the time, like a sexually transmitted disease. And I've seen my. My. My own doctor since I was, like, 19, 20. And that man fucking saved my life. You know what I mean? And we're very close now, and he's seen my dick far too many times. Like, he should never. Like, I should never put any man through that. But like I said, that's how deep I was in it. And so I'd have sessions at the Force and even down to Rockingham Rugby Club, and I drove home from there the other day and I said, I used to feel so, like, empty. Like, I'd be okay around the boys to a degree, but then I'd leave and I'd be almost scared to go home, scared to be by myself. And I do believe this is why I'm, like, 38 and I've never really lived by myself. Like, I've always had a partner or. Yeah, I've always had, like, a safety net there. And I was. I was feeling like that of the Force. Maybe it wasn't apparent. Like, I was able to. I was really able to internalize things. So I was embarrassed for the most part. I didn't. I didn't understand OCD like I do now. And I'll happily talk on this. To see someone struggling on life, they need to talk to me, Dude, I'm. The floodgates are open now because I've come out the other end of it. But in that time, it was, yeah, just constant, constant preoccupation with shit, really, that I didn't need to. When I really needed to be lasered.

In to the game, the mind just taking control, essentially. Absolutely not being able to.

I couldn't have a moment's peace. I guess that's the best way of putting it. And how I found my peace was, I guess in the games there'd be moments of flow state as well. And. Or if there was, I was in a relationship and certain things were going okay, then a few of those fears or those intrusive thoughts would. Because I would solve that problem, if that made sense. So by having regular sex with my partner, I knew that I didn't have a STD or anything. I couldn't pass that on to anyone. And then sometimes. But a lot of it was reassurance, like seeing doctors and then getting STD tests or just googling that and like wondering why my symptoms are, why I'm feeling this way.

And so this just escalated and escalated as things progressed.

Yeah, like, it was always there, I guess, but it came in ebbs and flows. So when I hurt my neck, I guess it, you know, then it's like, I guess mental health in a way can spike, right? And then, you know, you can. You can drop down and I just have moments of relatively what I considered a normal existence, but it still wasn't a proper existence. And I always had that at Cardiff, but I was burying it with being very busy, like playing a lot of rugby, training all the time, and then drinking a lot of alcohol on Saturday night. So it was coming to a crux. So I guess from 19 to like 28. And I'd seen a few different psychs and I'm like, this is why it's always. It's my advice is always to anyone, like, if you've seen a psych, like, just because you see the first one doesn't always mean that's a fit, you know, and just keep pursuing, keep pursuing until you find someone you have a fit with and you can. Maybe they really understand you. Because I went through a few. I went through a three phases and it's not a blame game, but people just like, not understanding what I was trying to articulate, I guess. And then I got bored of that or I felt like I was being a burden. So I just pulled back completely and I wouldn't share any more. But I was just a bit like, oh, this is how I'm gonna fucking survive and this is how I'll get through it.

Yeah, talk to me about that, that rock bottom moment, man. There was a moment when this. Yeah, got it. Got to the point. Yeah, it did.

Yeah. Well, that was a Straw that broke the camel's back for me. And so it was 2013, 14, so I'd had a good season at Cardiff. They'd offered me a two year deal, which I was excited about, but my manager had also managed to like broker a deal with the Melbourne Rebels here. And so the thought for me coming home was like doubly excited to maybe throw my hat in the ring to play for the Wallabies. You know, who knows if you're playing at that level, everyone's got a shot, right? And so leading into those sort of the end of the season, I guess there was a lot of pressure on contracts and all this sort of bits and pieces and yeah, my. All through my time at Cardiff, I was heavily reliant on my brother, my poor brother. Like, I'd ring and just have. I. I remember, I remember this now. I'd just be like, especially after drinking, I'd be calling him and you know, he was just trying to get through his own own life, but he could sort of, I guess he deeply understood where I was, even more so than I was. So he was coming to a crux. Man, I was just getting worse and worse and worse and I should have been, I should have been super excited about coming home, but I wasn't. I just became ill, like really ill, I guess it's the best way of putting it. And had all these pressures on and what should have been the best moment in my life, coming home and celebrating my family before I went on to Melbourne and then getting my parents to be able to come see me play Super Rugby, ended up just being like, I guess without being overly dramatic, it's sort of a fight for life really for me. And I came home and I couldn't explain, like, and that was for me, that was the most devastating thing for me. Everyone was so happy to see me, including my dad. My dad was super proud of me. He used to ring me all the time with Skype all the time. And me just being empty inside and just. I had no lust for life, let alone trying to put on a facade that, man, I'd come home and had a good time in Cardiff and bought load of kit back for everyone and wanted to share that, but at the same time I was fucking dead inside. And then I had to get ready to go to Melbourne and I'd signed this two year deal and there was media obligations and everything, so people knew what I was up to to a degree and man, I was just treading water. And closer, closer it came to Melbourne, the worse I get, like, I just wasn't able to get out of bed. And what was really. What was really my intrusive thought that was really fucking with me then was that I'd caught something and I wasn't even. That was the crazy thing about intrusive thoughts. There's no. For me, there was no real factual evidence. There wasn't. Because I'd see doctors and get all the tests, and I'd see my doctor at the medical center in Rockingham, like, bless him. And he would just look at me, bro. He's just like, how are you trying to defeat science? How are you trying to argue with science? And I'm like, I just can't explain it. And we got to a stage where a couple of days before flying out to Melbourne, my parents had taken me to hospital. And I always. The shame I feel, not so much now, like, but what I put them through. And I think any parent could relate. I guess they see their son being away and they come back and they just didn't know what to do. And I saw a GP after that, and I'm like, I don't know. I need something. I need meds or something. He's like, he led me. Not led me astray, but he was almost like, well, you won't be able to take meds and play professional rugby. And, I mean, that's a fallacy for me now because medication ended up saving my life. But I went to Melbourne, bro. Like, my parents dropped me off, and I'll never forget this. I was in the back of the car and just. And I think a psychologist asked me not long ago. He's like, did you ever have a plan? Which is like, I guess if people are ready. And I learned this through policing, if they've got a plan, man, they're pretty serious. It's. It's go time for them.

I plan to take your own life.

You take their own life? Yeah. So I don't think I ever got to that. But I just had such a sense of, like, hopelessness that. Yeah. And then I was scared, man. And I. I remember getting on, my parents crying at the airport, and I just sat on this plane just going, what am I gonna do? Like, I know I'm, like, cooked. Like, I know I'm sort of. But I had this. I had this internal thing where I was still, like. I guess if I was pushed into a corner, I could still sort of turn up. And this is a funny story. I never forget this. It was like, a young girl on the plane, too. And we started gas bagging and we really hit it off. And I asked, we got a number. And I was just. Internally I was like, you can't even sort. You are so such rock bottom, but yet you're still trying to get a fucking phone number. Maybe that's the whole problem. But, you know, that's, that's not what it was. But that's always just funny for me to think, like, even though I was in it all the time, and I won't say from my 19 to my 20s, it was always that, but it was always knocking on the door. It was always. It wasn't far behind. And a thought could ruin my day, man. Or my few days.

Yeah. So you wait you. Were you on the plane arrived in Melbourne ready to start this new career.

Ready to start training on. So I think I got this Sunday and I had to be there Monday morning. But also leading up to this, like, they must have known something was off, I guess because I just didn't have the enthusiasm, like for me. And the whole pinnacle of this was, you know, my dreams were being realized again. Like, I'd had this at the force, but my neck, I had my neck injury and then I got back and I played overseas and coming back was huge for me. So it was lit. And that's why I find it funny now. It's. I had my mental health break or I had my breakdown at the height of what I've always dreamed to do in a way. Well, I thought I always dreamed to do. And yeah, I got off the plane, dude. And I know we've spoken about this before. I went, I checked into a hotel and there's a few other boys in the hotel, but they weren't. I mean, I just kept to myself because I was battling. I just sat there and I was just like, dude, I can't get, I can't get through this. And I, I think I went and got some kfc. So how I was still worrying about eating at that stage, I guess, you know, I'll never starve to death, but. And I just was crying, like eating kfc, dude. And then I had this long shower and the next morning and I was just like, dude, I'm out. So she's turned my phone off. Not the most mature decision. But like I said, anyone in the grips of that, I take my hat off too. They're putting one foot in the front of the other. Got in this cab and cab. He was super chirpy. I'll just never vividly remember this. And I was trying to Have a conversation. I was like, even through all my shit. And I think a lot of people do this in mental health. They still feel like they're a burden or they're still trying to appease others or help others. And I think there's some real strength in that. If anyone's going through some heavy shit and they still. Still turn up for others, you know what I mean? Or they'll still be there because mental health's a selfish endeavor because just it's survival. So then I got to the airport, got on a plane home, phone off, just told my parents, they picked me up, and, dude, I just went underground for like three or four days and my phone was fucking blowing up. And it wasn't the most mature decision, but I just didn't know how to handle it. I didn't know what's happening. I don't think they took me back to hospital. I don't think we went that far. But I was. Just. Stayed at my parents for a couple of days until my dad, bless him, he was a bit like, you know, when you're moving out? And then I spoke to the coach eventually and I just said, listen, I'm going to be a detriment to the team. I want nothing more to be there. But. And I, you know, they'd already signed people, so it's just a clusterfuck, dude. But I look back now and it was the change in my life I needed. Because I think Eckhart talks about this just breaking, like my mind broke because I'd been dealing with that on and off for 10 years without any sort of. Maybe even any light at the end of the tunnel. I would just said, that was. That was me. So when I wasn't doing. When I wasn't having a big mental episode, like, that was the biggest one I've had. But previous to that, it would just be like, even if I was out and about, like, pretending I was having fun, like, deep down, I was never at peace. So through our work, without going off topic, me finding this inner peace is more valuable to me than anything. That's why I know my life will always be good now. Like, and I'll never. I'll never drop back into where I was. And it's nice to get to people to understand that, but they don't understand it straight away. My parents will still worry from time to time, but I have to have conversations with them and just, Just be like, that's. That was an old me, you know, and just, you know, I've got reverence or not reverence is a bit too much. But a lot of respect for mental health and my mental health in particular, and I don't let it sway, like. And I think you can attest to this. I guess I. Man, I keep my mental health tight, you know, and I never did that. So after the back end of my rugby, there was just an outcry, really. My manager's like, this is unprecedented in Australian rugby. No one's ever done this before. And I was like, well. And I get it, man. They wouldn't have understood completely what I was going through.

No, like, well, back then, nobody this. Nobody spoke about this.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I'm sure you weren't the only one going through it, right?

No, for sure, for sure. I know there's guys that have. Of guys I've played with have taken their own lives and stuff, you know, and that's. That's why I know my purpose is clear now.

Yeah. Bro. Thank you for. For sharing that. It's not easy to talk about some of the darkness that we've been through. And just through you sharing that, I know a lot of people feel really seen right now who are listening to this have been through similar things, so thank you.

No, you're welcome.

And you nailed something there around the. Once you realize that your inner peace is the only thing that matters, it then becomes the number one priority in your life because you can achieve any. You achieved your dreams and realize with that inner peace, it's no good.

Yeah. At the height of what I deem my dream job, so the lowest ebb of my life internally, and that's really hard for people to wrap their heads around. So my brothers, when I had the conversation, I'm so glad I did, like, 10 years too late, but it's all good. And now they understand. And I recently moved in my brother, last three months, and he can understand how my mind works even now. But now it's like, you know, I don't know if I'm quoting Kanye wrong, but he just says, you know, your mental health or your OCD can be your superpower, and it really can. Like. And I know I have a busy mind, but I also know I need to take breaks and I need to drop into meditation or just be with myself. And you've helped me with that. You know, like, a mantra of mine is like, I don't have to be anywhere. I don't have to do anything. And, you know, I want to do things, and I can be super busy, but I got to, you know, it can Be a razor's edge sometimes for sure of being too busy or trying to appease people and people please and just do too much and spread yourself thin. And that's, that's not fun either, bro.

There's so many people listening, nodding right now, watching, nodding away.

And I think I said this when I came up here, like, you know, there were some nerves around this podcast and talking to you and especially with anyone with intrusive thoughts. Intrusive thoughts like attack what you hold dearest to yourself and they can be nasty motherfuckers, you know, sometimes. And that was the biggest fear for me, telling my friends this is how I was feeling. And some fucking beautiful men I've told and they're just like absorbed that shit and been all good and like my brothers and even my dad and my mum, like I'm pretty open to a fault sometimes. My poor mum has just heard everything that's come out of my mouth. But yeah, it's just, it's just super important to let that drop for anyone dealing with mental health. And we can talk on this till the cows come home, can't we? But you know, you're not your thoughts, but when you're deeply, deeply in that, even as a normal. I was about to say normal human. But that's outrageous. But even in your day to day life, if things are ticking along well, you know, we're, we're clustered with internal thoughts, like they're just, it's a minefield sometimes. Yeah, but they can be, I think, I think with, with people that don't have mental health especially they don't have ocd, the thoughts are probably ranging far and wide. That's not to say they're always good. But when it's intrusive, it's like attacks you, hit you right in your feels. You know what I mean? And you, it's hard for you to break through the other end and it's hard for you to understand that. So I just have like mental to ping pong myself all day. And that's exhausting in itself.

Yeah. I can't remember the quote, how exactly goes. But it's something like, you know, the root of all suffering is an untrained mind. And yes, you know, through this work you've now realized, you know, once your mind's under control, once you've learned to tame that, that wild beast.

Yeah.

You know, you can then it then becomes your, your tool and your servant rather than it controlling you like you're.

The captain of your ship.

Yeah, yeah. Which for people you know, initially who are in these spirals, sometimes medication is the first thing that gives them a sense of like, okay, finally my mind is not like overwhelming. Like, can you tell me a little bit about breaking some of the addictions that you relied upon?

Yeah, to calm your mind for sure. I jump in quickly before, like a thing I love from Eckhart is like one of his phrases is just the human condition is lost in thought. And I was just like, dude, that's so, so apparent. But yeah, so it wasn't all, it wasn't all smooth sailing, but I, I kind of worked my way through it. After Cardiff, I did disappear, man. Well, when I say disappeared, like, I was still doing my thing in Rockingham and cruising and getting back into work. And that was a testament to the people around me. And I, I slowly, slowly got up there, got back. But dude, I wasn't living still, like, I was still stuck. I still hadn't been diagnosed with anything at this stage. So I was I doing then, I needed, I was reaching again, I was chasing. And that's a condition of that as well. Right. So I was pulling like women into my life because I couldn't be by myself now. I started a policing career which at this stage, I think my mental health had been diagnosed. Sorry, it had been diagnosed. So I went to see a amazing doctor at the Murray center, which is in Wembley. And at this stage I'd spoke to so many psychs, when I say so many, man, like four or five over the years, but that was just tedious every time I had to go there and try and explain myself and articulate myself and it's like the ramblings of a madman, like, because that's what was happening in my head. And so I just kept, I kept keeping a diary and anytime I like, whatever I was feeling, I just started jotting it down. And I went to see this gentleman and it wasn't my initial doctor and it turned up being someone else and I was at my wits end, dude. I was like, I don't know if this doesn't work, I don't know what I'm going to do. And I just handed him my diary and it was full and he read like half a chapter. And I was like, are you right, mate? You better read that whole thing. But I guess every page would have been the same. So he has the same thoughts going through, but he just read and goes, oh, yes, sweet. You've got what we call a pure ocd. We can, we'll fix that. And for me that was the game changer. I was just like. It's just like the weight of my world fell off my shoulders, you know, I think I cried in that office, you know, I mean, I love a cry now, but that was when I used to cry back then. That was like, pain. And he's just like, all we got to do is, we'll get you on some medication. I was against that for the longest time, and I think that's why I didn't go really pursue my mental health. I just spun my wheels. And if men have concerns about taking medication, man, that saved my life. It saved my life, and nothing mattered to that. And we got on a low dose of Flomoxamine, I believe. And, man, that was the first time I'd had some clarity in my life for a long time. You know, I was with a beautiful girl at the time. She really helped me through that. But I had about six, seven, six to eight weeks off. No drinking, eating clean. I think I was juicing back then. And just on my tablets, and I was just like, holy fuck. So that was a level of clarity that I was. I'd never been used to having before. And then all of a sudden, I was doing some caring at the time with the Autism association, trying to become a police officer. And that was just like, the best job I've ever had. I fucking love that job. Like, it's so much fun. And with the clarity of my mind, I was able to really turn up and see people instead of, like the mist that I had in front of my eyes, you know, and. But it was all smooth sailing. It's funny, you know, we can keep talking about that too. Like, I had a year, but I. After that, six to eight weeks, and people are, you know, I guess people can feel like this. I start feeling really good. And then I was still caught in the thing, the ideal or ideology that I had to drink. And, you know, drinking was a huge part of my life. I hadn't broken that from rugby. And I went back into that, started drinking. I don't say drinking, man. Like, I always. I'm flippant with my drinking, but if I was really serious about. I was drinking a lot, like, you know, those rugby boys can drink a lot of piss. And that's like just the worst, man. That's just poison, you know? And I ended up getting into the police, and all through the policing and policing academy this time, I realized what I was doing. So I gave my mental health a good six to eight weeks, which sounds crazy. It sounds crazy. From what I've gone through. And to have that moment, to have that moment of more clarity and just feeling myself, that I allowed bad habits to still drag me back. But you have to understand, like, I was like, not getting out of bed and stuff. And now I was like, well, I've got a new lease on life. I want to get back in the world. I want to do things with friends and stuff. But then it became a slippery slope and I had a. Like, fucking. I love painkillers, man. Well, I didn't love them, but they. I did love them. Yeah. Because I got introduced them. Sorry, introduced to Tramadol after my neck operation. And I probably. You could probably imagine, with intrusive thoughts or any sort of mental health, like, if you're on opiates, dude, that kind of like sails you along the river.

Yeah. Numbs things up.

Yeah, it does. And it was feeling good. So even through my policing, started my policing career and stuff like, I guess Tramadol. And also I had this other nerve. Pain Lyrical was taking that as well. And so, you know, it's not that I wasn't turning up for work, because I was. And it wasn't. I wasn't taking all the time, but I had a habit. Like, I was having them on the weekends and if I was feeling a bit off, I'd be like, oh, some tramid. I'll be fine. And I knew how to obtain them and I was fucking living on them, bro, and drinking. And I got to a stage and then I wasn't sleeping, I guess, with the police as much as I needed to. I always just say things wouldn't bother me, you know, we're attending suicides, domestic violence is rife. You're doing a lot of that. And I got to a stage where probably three or four years in again. And if I'm jumping too far ahead, man, just. Just reign me in. Where even though I thought I was fucking solid, man, my mental health was slipping again. Which is funny, you know, I hadn't gone full circle, and I think that's it. The fact that you can sort of come out of your darkest days and then. But you don't quite go back there. So you're kind of like, well, look how bad I was a few years ago, but I'm doing good now. I'm doing good now. And I was just numbing myself constantly, constantly. Until, man, I had a panic attack like last year, probably just before we started working with each other. And now I know that it's just the combination of not enough Sleep. But dude, I just wasn't sleeping. You know, I do a, a night shift sometimes can be 10 hours. A normal night shifts could be 12. I come back, have two or three hours, boom, try and train. Because we've always got to train. Right. If I wasn't training, I wasn't like winning at life. And then I go back to work again and yeah, I was just surviving through drinking a lot, unhealthy drinking. And I could be, I can be an obnoxious dude on when I drink. Like I've never, I don't like people might disagree with this but I don't think I've ever tried incite fights. I'm always pretty loving and stuff dude. But I could be loud and like I was never listening, you know. And I see that my dad a bit with the listening thing because if you're busy in your mind, it's fucking hard to listen.

Yeah. Well, I remember when we met you were still taking medication.

Yes.

You were still on antidepressants as well at the time. And tramadol.

And drinking a lot.

And drinking a lot. And this is a big thing that I've become aware of with men and women, but more so men because we don't tend to open up and talk about what we're dealing with, what we're struggling with. We will just numb the pain, just avoid and numb. And we all have our addictions and vices. Some addictions are more harder to break or more intense than others. Examples of other addictions, caffeine, going to the gym, watching porn, social media, the need to always be busy. Yeah, harder, more intense addictions. You know, we say high level coping and maladaptive and adaptive coping strategies are different, varying degrees of like how we cope with our suppressed emotions. On the more intense scale we've got prescription drugs, having sex frequently using things such as cannabis, alcohol and other illicit drugs. You were taking prescription medication as and as a way to cope, which is one of the hardest ways to. Hardest addictions to break. Yeah, I speak to a lot of people who still unsure how to break that addiction, man. Especially prescription drugs because there is that attachment to this. This saved your life in a way. Some of these.

Yeah. And I think they're provided by doctors as well, you know. And this is not slight any doctors at all because then they're needed as well. They need a high painkillers. But man, it's a slippery slope with that and I know there's plenty. I know there are definitely guys out there. As soon as I mentioned tramadol like, it'll pick their interests. Like, they'll know what that. That is.

Right.

Especially sports people. Sure.

So at what point? I guess what I'm getting at is what point did you know you were ready to break, Kick it all in? Yeah. To not require these external substances to.

Well, the point for me, again, was when I'd been out with a mate at a wine tour and I just got completely inebriated. And I just have to, like, put emphasis on how much of a grog monster I actually was. I drank a lot of piss. And the next day I'd come home and my brother was. I was living with my brother Dean at the time and his partner, and, man, I'm like a bear when I come home and I'm full of pisses, like, through the pantries. And he's like, checked in on me. And I woke up the next morning and I was just, like, in a state of severe anxiety, something I hadn't experienced for a long time. And Dean was like, come in. He's like, you know, you're shouting at the neighbors last night on the balcony. I was like, jesus Christ, am I right? And I just sat there and I was like, this. I'm done with this. But it was scary because I had a real bad panic attack and my brother gave me, like, four Valium, and I wasn't coming out the other end of it, so I was just like. I don't think I needed him to take me to hospital, but there was a question mark around that. I was like, dude, I'm battling. And he sat with me and I didn't even bother. Mental health. I'd never had a bad panic attack before, and I just did a life audit internally. I was just like, what? Like, what are you doing with yourself? Like, how disrespectful to all your family, your friends. Everyone has turned up for you. Five, six years ago when you're really your partner. At the time, like, everyone came into bat for you. I say valid. Seeking validation was my fucking thing, you know, especially for my inner circle, you know? And, yeah, I just said, I'm done, like. But I said, I'm done with painkillers, I think, at that stage. And I think it was like a. Maybe a month later when we met. So I was, I don't know, like, waddling through life a little bit and sort of getting rid of maybe bits and pieces. I might have said, no more tramadol, you know, but I'd said that before in the past. And so I think the tramadol was the first to drop for me because I had a lot of attention to alcohol as well, I guess, unbeknownst. And now I very rarely drink. Like, I have a few beers, but.

Yeah. And also the realization that underneath these addictions or dependencies is that dark, scary part of ourselves that we're afraid to face.

Yeah.

There comes a point in the journey where you gather enough courage and enough tools in your, you know, your emotional toolkit to go back. I'm ready to face.

Yeah.

Some of these suppressed parts of myself.

And I think sometimes you need. Especially as men, you need. You need other men to sort of call you on that. And I got that from that weekend we spent together. Not just Jordan and I, there was, like, other people there, but, man, there's some powerful dudes there. All that I call my friend and girls. And I always share the story of my family. I went down and, man, I wasn't fit then either. It's like, I think I've been drinking all night. I turned up and I just. My. I had paradigm shift. I was like, how are these people living this way? Or look how free and happy they seem. They're grinding and they're just getting after it. And that shifted me. Enough more to go, right. Something has to give here or I need help. Let's be honest. I just said, I need help. And I reached out to our mutual friend Alex, and I didn't know life coaches. You know, I didn't realize you guys had been coached before and that was your job, per se. And we'd spent the whole weekend together. Maybe that says something about me not really asking you questions, but, man, we watched that rugby game together. Like, France played Australia, it was last year, and they won with 14 men. And I think that bonded me with you. I'm like. Because I was, you know, I didn't want to put that game on. I felt like I wasn't allowed to put it on. Yeah.

And we realized that pattern early on in the piece as well.

I was saying sorry a lot more.

Yeah. Same Saying sorry.

Apologizing just for being.

Yep. Just afraid of taking up space.

Yeah.

People. People pleasing. It's a common one, man. It's the same as a pattern that I've noticed in myself.

Yes.

Yeah. It's. I've watched you evolve and transition and move through a lot of intense emotions, through a lot of courage. So tell me, like, if anyone's listening to this and they're maybe still taking prescription medication, maybe they're relying on meds to keep their mental Health at a certain level, where does someone begin to say, okay, I'm ready to lose, to let go of this dependency or addiction. I'm ready to meet and let go of this heaviness that's down there. What advice do you have for someone given the fact that you've now been through it? You're still on this journey, but you're certainly at a point now where you can speak confidently on. On what it takes.

I guess that any entry level for that is maybe, maybe considering how you make other people feel. So for me, I'd come down to my family after a week of policing sometimes, and I almost had a fight with my brother one Christmas. And my realization deeply for me was like, I'm treating criminals and like, people who are breaking law per se. And I treat everyone how I expect to be treated. But I was treating them better than I was treating my own family, my loved ones. So I needed that stark realization. And then the panic attack. So there's a few things for me that I was just like, dude, if I continue this path, I'm crazier than I thought. And, yeah, just getting help, I think. Or just really understanding maybe what addiction is. And because I also told myself that I'll just take Tramadol on Sundays or I take them when I'm hungover. Or I could tell myself, even though I was in pain with my hands and my neck, it was a bit of a fallacy, dude. Like, I didn't have an open communication with my body. I wasn't doing all the right things. So I was just. It was an excuse. Or I told myself I needed these things just to get through, like, anything. To take Tramadol before I went and saw my dad, that was a big one for me. Take Tramadol before I went to see my family. So I was chill or flat around them so I wouldn't get triggered because I hadn't really deeply faced anything that I really needed to. Or I didn't let it come up. So don't know if that answers your question.

It does in a way, because it is back to healing those inner child wounds which are triggered the most around our family.

Yeah.

So when someone is ready to do that deep inner work, it almost is like you have to kind of go back into what happened around your. Your dad and your family. Yeah.

And I think some of you guys started talking about numbness. And I hadn't heard the term inner child. That's crazy, right? I hadn't heard any of that. I'd understood trauma on A policing level. And, you know, I used to see kids who wish to hurt my heart, like, just battling. And now I deeply understand that. That's probably why I struggle to be a police officer now. But, yeah, just understanding, hearing. Hearing you're numbing yourself or learning about the nervous system. Yeah, that falls in with my ssirs as well, my antidepressant medication. But for me, it wasn't a hard shift, man. With Tramadol. I don't know why. Like, maybe because I had so much other shit going on as well. So I was like, well, I need to get rid of that. And I knew I'd seen. I'd seen people go down a path with Tramadol, and then I'd seen in policing that prescription drugs were not far, you know, kind of often used with methamphetamine sometimes as well. And, like, I was like. I knew I wouldn't get there because I had resilience, but I didn't like the man I was, man. I was just a fucking numb dude. And when I met guys like yourself, like, I could talk the talk, but I wasn't walking the walk, though, because I did a lot of reading and I used to do meditation, some breath work, but I was really, like, living a lie. I was lying to myself. And that's when I just. I'd had that moment where I was like, this is enough. Like, I'm not gonna lie to myself. I gotta love. Like, I've gotta learn to love myself. Well, I were only here for a minute, and up until 37, I'd had glimpse of like. Like my childhood wasn't all bad. Like, it was good, man, and I loved that. And now since I've moved back to Rockingham, I'm living straight away from my young and I'm finding the inner child in me. It's crazy. Like, I do simple things that make me super happy, you know, like my painting and stuff like that. It's just what I would. I was drawing a lot as a child, where I was do a lot of that in school.

Yeah, I've got one of your paintings hanging just over there behind us. Beautiful gift. That's exactly the point, bro. Your journey has now taken you back to establishing a relationship with yourself, with your inner child, and knowing how to meet your own needs. Give your inner child that. That freedom, that. That reassurance, that love. To know that everything's okay.

Yeah, dude. Yeah. And that's massive. That's huge for me. And just being gentle with myself in the process. Yeah, I've never Been, I've never done that before. And like I said, it's not. Hasn't been smooth sailing. I moved in with my brother and I spent a lot of time away from my family, but they were always, we're always very close, but it's like once a fortnight to see my folks or something. And moving back with my brother was, you know, there's some blow ups, dude, some heavy blow ups. And most of them were probably my fault in a way, but. And two older brothers shouldn't live to. Two brothers in their 30s should live together anyway. I always use the stepbrothers and analogy. It wasn't far off that.

I'm not even kidding.

But yeah, so I had some blobs, man. I punched a cabinet during one argument, man. I headbutted a wall. And this is only, this is only two months ago as well. So that's important to share that and just to know that like, you can keep pushing through, but there's going to be things that come up. And I was deeply embarrassed how I behaved, you know, but on the other side of that and I had to really question, I had to ask why I was willing to hurt myself. So that was a question I asked myself and that sort of ran deep when I say, why am I willing to hurt myself? That encompassed excessive drinking, excessive painkiller use, all the other bits and pieces I was food even, dude. I had to really reassess. And yeah, I think, and I deeply believe in the universe has a high purpose for me, or maybe it does, but it was nudging me in the right direction. It was nudging me, nudging me, nudging me. And then I met you, then you opened the door for me. And that's what we need as men, we need that. Like if you've got, if you've got a feeling, just really go with it and then reach out to someone that can fucking back you with that because there's heaps of dudes or women that are willing to do that who just love that space. And now I understand because I love that space too.

Yeah, yeah. And we're walking this path together now. And bro, you know, as we start to wrap this up, you know, tell, tell me a little bit now about what you see your purpose being. Given your mental health challenges, what you've been through, where is your soul and life calling you to next?

So for me, this is important as well. My primary purpose is always my inner work.

Great answer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I knew you'd like that. So yeah, and it's not always easy. I try and put myself on the top of my priority list and I'm doing exactly what I want to do. But that doesn't, that doesn't mean that I don't have like zoom calls. And you know, because I'm off work with. After three surgeries, you know, like two hand surgeries, I've got some numbness in my right hand. I struggle with that sometimes, but that's been a silver lining for me. It's allowed me to slow down and I don't know, to be fair, maybe if I didn't have these surgeries, I don't know how, if I would have slowed down because I'm super busy as well and you know this. But yeah, where I see myself is just in this space. Like I did, I helped facilitate with a good friend of mine a men's circle on Sunday. And I had, you know, I still have self doubt, dude. I had self doubt driving up here going. But I know what that is now. This is my ego trying to make me play small again. And we just, you know, we love.

That, but we tell them to fuck off. I love you. Yeah.

Yeah. And so things like that have just been powerful. And then having men around like yourself and Alex and just guys that I can see just really living their potential and not conforming. So how I see myself is just being in this space and providing. I love to mentor. Like, I love being a carer. For me, that was working with young lads with autism and going community development. I mean that's a, that's a job, you know, Like, I love that. So, yeah, I reckon. Well, I know. No, I don't reckon. I deeply know that my path is, is very clear. Even though there's some obstacles to jump through, I would just want to provide space and speak to guys or girls or anyone that has had or has been through or in what I went through, you know, because you have to deeply understand that it's just, it is a moment, it's a moment in time. Even though, like with me it was years, you know, it's cliche but you know, this, this too will. This too shall pass. But just get, get help is the biggest thing. And like you said, I've got help from many sources in the past and they haven't always aligned. But eventually it will. If you don't, if you don't. If you just keep putting one foot in front of the other and believing in yourself, dude, it'll drop in eventually and it'll hit when you Least expect it. Like, I didn't realize I wasn't gonna go on that weekend away. And I often think about that, and my brother encouraged me to go on that. He's like, what are you gonna do? Drink beers and watch rugby all weekend? And I was like, yeah, I am gonna do that. Like, that's what I was doing. And I went away and look how, like, my life has just changed. And it's. It's scary sometimes because I've always done the nine to five. I've always sort of fallen back into menial jobs that I thought I was lucky to have or I didn't think I could do anything else. So for me now, it's like I. I said to my mom yesterday, I was like, I got a new zest. I got a new lease on life. And I want everyone to know that they can. They will have. They will have that, but don't do anything drastic in the meantime.

Yeah, bro. I just want to acknowledge you, man. It's been seven months since I met you. You know, for us to just. Let's just. Listening to you talk right now and hearing the level of clarity in your communication is something that. I always gauge a man's growth through the level of clarity in his communication. And you can feel it in you, where you've come and how you speak now. It's. It's a lot more potent. And thank you, bro. That's a testament to the commitment, man, that you've displayed throughout all of this and. And really encourage or invite people listening to connect with you, because you are on this journey now where you are of service, you are here to support other people. And where can people connect with you online?

For me, it's probably Instagram's the best at the moment. And I think my handle's like Tisza, too. Yeah, we've been dropping. I've been dropping in on TikTok as well, but I can't even tell you my. My handle on that. And that was Jordan. He threw me under the bus there. But, like, another thing on the other side is fears on the other side of fears, everything you ever wanted. And, man, I've been fearful a lot and more so recently, like, the more open you become, I think sometimes it's like that fear can creep back in, especially if you're not used to. If you're used to, I don't want to say playing small, but just used to just doing life and not. You might have dreams and goals, but you're like, I just can't quite. Can't quite get it. And one thing I'll just leave with and you know, and I really appreciate you for just letting me see myself again. And I'll share this with my brother sometimes and people, because even though I'm off work now and maybe it can I catch myself and I go, dude, you can. You've only done this work because you. Because you've got time. And that's that perfectionism just dropping back in. But I guess for me, and it's important to know anyone there is time. And so I was getting up at like 4:30 in the morning when we first started working together, right. And you said just journal for seven days. And that was hard. And I fit it in my day, I was sitting outside the Jujitsu gym journaling, but I just got it done. And that was power in that. And I was like, if I can do this, I just found myself again. So I was up at 4:30 and I'd meditate, I'd do my qigong and then I'd journal and then I'd go to work. And even though I didn't really want to be at work or my heart was somewhere else, I would just turn up and provide energy for people who are there. And then I would train in the evenings and I just become a professional, whatever you want to call it, I become professional at living again.

Well, it's what Eckhart speaks about where you don't need to change what you do, you just need to change how you do it. Bringing that level of presence and space and clarity into, you know, because you can make a cup of tea and be completely unconscious in your head or you can be powerfully present and, you know, be there with every little movement and the quality of the energy that you bring into that, that action is completely transformative. So yes, it's sort of what you did, bro. You didn't change.

No, I didn't change anything. I chipped, I trimmed the fat.

Yeah.

And then through yourself, it's this. And everyone's intelligent as well. I just want to let that drop. Innately intelligent.

Oh yeah.

When we're quiet. And that was. I just told myself I was a stupid dude for a long time or I wasn't getting things, couldn't pick up plays. But there's a reason for that. So when we start chipping away at things and sort of trimming the fat or however you want to say it from porn to like your phone. I still have moments on my phone, dude, from drinking from just the shit. Like, then you can realize Then it's up to you how clear you want to get. Because the clearer you get, the more life becomes beautiful. But you know, you don't always want to live like a monk. I know, I understand that.

Still gotta have fun.

You've gotta have fun because life's play, right?

Yeah. And that's what I really love about you, bro. The fun element has never been lost.

Yeah, I'm glad, man. I said to my brother as well, it's like, dude, you could lose yourself once. We did a two week cleanse not long ago, you know, and I was just like, fuck, I'm getting pretty serious towards the end of this. Like everything, I just quit everything. And I love the fact that I can do that. But at the same time, man, I don't want to live like that. But it's nice. It's nice to know you can get that level of clarity when you want. And I think that's important for people to know. And so for me, if I've got to turn up for something like today, I won't say I was in bed early or anything, but man, I turn up because I know you've turned up. And this is important to me and it's important to you. So you don't have to turn up all the time, but when you do, just fucking turn up.

Yes. Well, bro, we're about to head off to your first bikram yoga class. I'm taking you back to where my journey began, which was the hot yoga room. So I'm super pumped about that. And we're gonna have to wrap this up.

Can you do that in jean shorts?

We're about to find out. Dude, thank you for coming on. This has just been, this is a dream come true for both of us.

It has been. Yeah, yeah, I was, yeah, there's a lot of trepidation. I was nervous too. But like, like anyone, you make people feel at home. And yeah, I don't want to plug you or anything, go blow smoke up your ass, but if anyone is stuck and they've tried a few different things, man, if you haven't tried getting coached and just assumed in the mantle of a white belt and you're just gonna learn so much. And you know, Jordan, dude, you're a fucking amazing human being. Brian, I've always looked up to you regardless of the age. And you know, I saw you, saw myself in you. And I think, yeah, I'm forever, forever grateful. And I told you, like, it doesn't matter what I do in this lifetime now. The fact that you've brought me closer to my family is, like, something I can never repay. So, yeah.

Wow, man. Thank you. Wow, that means so much. And. Yeah, let's do a round two again.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, this is just the tip.

Of the iceberg, so beginning.

I don't want to freak people out.

Well, thank you, bro. Thank you, guys for listening. And, yeah, bye for now.