SSP136: Journeying into the Cosmic Mind: A Conversation with Michael 'Mojo' O'Brien

Hey, guys, what's going on? Jordan Kanlis here. Welcome back to the podcast. At the time of this recording, I'm in Denver, Colorado on a little whirlwind adventure as we lead into the back end of 2023. Just come from experiencing Burning man for the first time. Back in September, we spent two to three months in Austin. It's been quite the journey and we've arrived here in Denver because I felt the pull. I was called to come out here to catch up with a mentor of mine, Chris Bale, who I've been spending some time with and alongside mentorship that I've had from master energy workers coaches. Recently, I've invested in business coaching. I've hired a business coach to really help me go to the next because I realized there were some things in how I was showing up in my business that were holding me back. And I crossed paths with a gentleman named Michael Mojo, who is based in Australia, and he's the guest of today's podcast and listened to a few of his podcasts and really felt that he was cutting through a lot of the bullshit that I was hearing in the coaching space. And Mojo has achieved a significant amount of success in his coaching business and I wanted to bring him onto the podcast. I've been working with him for the last three, four months now and really felt a lot of things shift in my life in terms of how I've been showing up, and I've been really looking forward to sharing his wisdom with you because this man is a deep thinker. He has explored lots of different domains, lots of different areas in philosophy, psychology, nlp, quantum physics, chemistry, so many areas. And he's distilled and refined his thought process and methodology into something that's truly quite profound. It's quite unique. And this podcast, I would say, is more of a masterclass. So all I'm going to suggest is strap yourself in. I don't do a whole lot of talking in this one, but make sure you've got your lion's mane. Make sure you're ready to absorb the information that's about to come at you because it kind of broke my mind a little bit, to be honest, and it got me reflecting on a lot of interesting things about life, values, purpose, meaning, you name it. So I can't wait for you to enjoy this. Make sure you subscribe if you haven't already, because I got lots of dope conversations like this to come. But for now, enjoy this conversation with Michael Mojo. The man, the myth, the legend. What's going on Brother, thanks for being here with me.

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Yeah. It's an honor. You're just kicking off your day as I'm kind of wrapping up mine. You're out in Adelaide, Australia. Really looking forward to this conversation with you, man, because it's been a really spectacular journey over the last three to five months since we started working together, and you've really helped me level up a lot of things in my business and both on, you know, individually. For myself and Amanda, it's been a really impactful journey working with you, and I'm just looking forward to sharing some of your wisdom with my community and hopefully unlock some insights along the way. But, yeah, tell us what. What are you up to these days? What's your. What's your. What's your focus? What's. What's the purpose right now?

Well, there's a lot of questions there. Which one do you want me to unpack first? The purpose. What I'm up to.

Focus. Focus and purpose.

Awesome. Look, I just help people perform better. That's what I do. That's what I'm born to do. I love helping people push their own limits. You know, there's a quote that I remember years ago, and that is, you know, you only. You only find your boundary when you cross it, or you only find someone's boundary when you cross it. And I think those boundaries can keep being moved if you keep pressing them. And so I like pressing my own boundaries and figuring it out. You know, when I was a young kid, I was put into special classes, told that I wouldn't get anywhere in life. You know, the word add, dyslexia, all that shit got thrown around. Like I said, I was in special classes, expelled from school when I was 15. You know, just in a bad headspace. And, you know, now I think I've got a lifestyle that most people would find pretty. Pretty awesome.

So, yeah, yeah, big time, man. Like, you're driving a McLaren, you're running a million plus coaching business, and I crossed paths with you probably like, almost a year ago now. I was listening to your podcast, and there was something about your directness and your approach to business that cut through a lot of bullshit. And I want to cover that today because a lot of coaches don't make the success that you've been able to achieve in your business. So I'd love to start off by learning a little bit more about what do you do differently in your business that's allowed you to get to this level of success that you have, because from the outside looking in, people see the car, they see your lifestyle, speaking on stages, sold out events, they go, hell, like what's he tapping into that, that I've not been able to. Yeah, I'd love to hear, hear your thoughts on that.

Yeah, I don't, I didn't even really think about the idea of success. Like, I don't know, I used to get caught in a trap of, a trap of wanting to be successful. And I guess the more successful in society terms that I became, the more, I don't know, the more I would take my foot off of the gas and start to self destruct. And so I knew that there was a link there between this idea of achieving things and you know, getting pulled off of your path. And I think that too many people, you know, like if I, if I ever look at the standard, the standard person worker, whatever, right, they work really hard to get ahead financially and then they get their paycheck and they go woohoo. It's time to celebrate a little bit. And then the next second here they are, they're, they're spending all their cash. You know, you look at most people, they go to the gym, they exercise, they have a really good week of training and then they go and binge eat. So it's almost like there's this counterbalancer. Like I believe in the old Yin Yang philosophy. So you know, I, from, from a lot of studies and research that I've done, it seems that everything in the universe is trying to go to its most stable form. And we could call that balance. And the ancient Chinese philosophy sort of, you know, highlighted that. And now, you know, we have physics and you know, you've got electromagnetism and stuff like that. Different fields of science where, you know, they've come up with the same, I guess the same principles. Even in mathematics the word equal means to balance. So you know, what I realized was that this idea of success was actually the thing that kept me unsuccessful in a way because I would self destruct and self sabotage. So I don't even think about that anymore. I just wake up and I do what I love and I do the same shit pretty much every day, seven days a week. Because I find every time I go outside of that, I start either doing something stupid, I self destruct, I, I do something dumb or, I don't know, I just get off my path. So I just wanted to highlight that first because there'll be a lot of people here that, you know, they see the McLaren or, you know, they, they See the lifestyle that I live or whatever and they go, wow, that's, this dude's super successful. But I don't, I don't really even know what success is. And I don't know how to define it. You know, I guess in a way I'm more driven to just see what I'm capable of more than I am, achieve some form of success. And I think the greatest people on the planet, like I was just, we're just talking that I was listening to Elon Musk and Joe Rogan. If you look at it both, both of those two parties, they're not even their, their method of, I guess measurement in life to figure, to figure out life isn't based on this idea of success or happiness, which that's where I think most people go wrong. They're just driven to do what they're here to do and that's what keeps them driven, that's what keeps them on their path versus, you know, I work really, really hard so that I don't have to work hard, which is counterintuitive. And so that's that dualism playing itself out. And I think that's where people get caught. Yeah, they just get caught out. But yeah, in response to the, the, the question about how I do things different. Look, I started at the same place as most coaches or, you know, most people, right. Like I was a diesel mechanic by trade working on large mining equipment for Caterpillar here in South Australia, which is in Australia right down the bottom. And I just knew that it wasn't the thing that I wanted to do. I didn't enjoy it. I saw people making a lot of money and they were unhappy and I thought, you know, I'm going to go do what I actually love to do back then, which was 20 years ago now. And I became a personal trainer. And back then it was 18 months. You had to do 18 months of after hours study. So I'd work all day, I'd do 10 hours and then I would go and do night study. And for the kid that was put into special classes, going back and studying was really confronting because I was a dumb kid. And so it scared the living out of me. Like I was so afraid. What I know is that decisions are things that change people's lives. It's not the thing, it's the decision. And people normally put off the decision making process which is why they don't sort of move in the direction that they want to move in. And so what I've learned is that decisions are my friends And I'm better off making the wrong decision and learning from it so that then I can make a better decision in the future than stalling a decision which then means that I don't get anywhere in life. So you know, I, I remember signing up or going to sign up to become a PT and I was just, I was so scared, but I ended up doing it. And then when I did something that I really loved, the gym was the only place that ever made me feel happy because I was a fat, chubby, overweight kid. You know, in grade five, I was the only, I was the only kid who wore a T shirt at the swimming carnival because I just didn't like my body. And so I started training, you know, from 13 years of age. I started lifting weights and I would go for runs and stuff like that and I just found this love for exercise and movement and so once I, once I started studying personal training, I was like, this is my place, this is my vibe, these are my people, so love doing that. The day I got signed off my apprenticeship or my, my training, my qualifier, the day I got my qualification to be a full diesel mechanical diesel fitter, I quit. I put my toolbox in the car, drove to mum, dad's house, Mum burst into tears. You know, what are you going to do with your life? You know, if you just stick out the mining industry for 10 years, you know, you'll be set, you have the white picket fence, the family, you'll be married, all that sort of stuff. And I said to her, you know, in 10 years I'll be dead. You know, I'd already tried to end my life when I was 15, when I got expelled from school. So you know, that, that wasn't the place for me. But yeah, personal training was a place where I found my spot. And then I just kept working, I just kept studying, learning, growing and I just found this love for learning. And then one day the boss said to me, look, you know a lot of what you're doing, why don't you get up and teach? And there was a hundred people in the room for this, you know, a 10 week challenge or a 12 week challenge. And you know, like I said, this was 20 years ago. So those things weren't normal to run like a 10 week or a 12 week challenge. So I got up and I started teaching and even though I was like shit scared and that's normally, that's normally my sign, I'm about to make a change in path is the scared. And I was scared to do, to get up on that stage and do something different. Did it anyway. After I did it a couple of times, I'm like, this is wild. I get to impact people, share, share a message now I get to help more people. And yeah, so I did that and just kept learning and learning and learning. Ended up going, studying with. Through the Czech Institute or Paul Check. He's got a great little book called how to Eat, Move and be Healthy. You know, I don't necessarily subscribe to all of his philosophies and I don't really care whether I agree with everybody. I just like learning how different people think. I care more about what people think than. Sorry, how people think than what people think. And I tell my team all the time, I don't give a. About what, you know, what you think. I care about how you think through it. So. And you know this from working through me as well. Like I, I pick apart how people think and then sort of try to construct it so I can figure out what's going on and how I can use different levers to move people around. So, yeah, studied that. And then I was like, cool. It's awesome to have more studies in nutrition, more studies in human movement, studied strength conditioning. And then I was working in a medical center for about three years doing physical rehab in my own business and did quite well financially in there. You know, I think last year I made, I think 265 or 365,000 Australian in the last year I worked as a personal trainer. And back then it was like unheard of. You know, we didn't have social media cranking where people were earning like a million plus a year as a, as a PT or as a, you know, a coach. That. That was unheard of. So, you know, I, while I was there in the medical center, there was a psychologist and I was asking questions like, why is it that people are depressed? And she would say, well, you know, it's a chemical imbalance. But because of my background as a mechanic, that's not an answer. Because when a large piece of mining equipment would break down, right, and say the engine blows apart or the engine breaks, what we would do is we would grab that engine, we would put it into a big. Almost like a medical bay. It was almost like it was so clean. And we would take all these oil samples and we would test all the oil to find out how much metal filings and everything was in the like, fine particles or if there was water in or any contaminants in the oil. And so it would all get all the oils would get tested. Then we would start pulling down the engine. And then let's say there's a broken component, like a gear. We would grab that gear, and then what we would do is we would look at it and we would go, right, why did the gear break? And then we would go, okay, well, there could be like a bunch of different possibilities, but we would look at the metal. You know, was it a problem, A fault with the metal under manufacturing? You know, was. Was there a fault there that made the component weak? Was it the hardening on the surface? So we would test all the hardening and we would keep looking until we found the absolute, to the best of our ability, the absolute reason why the thing broke. And then the companies like Caterpillar, which are, you know, one of the largest manufacturers on the planet in regards to mining equipment or machinery, they would then go and improve their systems, their processes and their infrastructure. So when I would get an answer like, well, it's just a chemical imbalance, my first question was, why? Why. Why does someone have a chemical imbalance? Why does someone have a chemical imbalance at 35? But why didn't they have it at 20? What changed? There had to be a catalyst. There had to be something that changed. Something shifted. So I would ask all these inquisitive questions because I'm inquisitive, but I'm also a pain in the ass because I want to find shit out. Hence the library in my office here because, like, I just. I love finding shit out. And, you know, I. I wasn't happy with that. So I started studying. I went, I went and studied. I did a mastery program in nlp. Then I thought, you know, there's still a lot of things that are un. Unchecked here. I need to go study again. So I did three mastery programs in nlp. And then what I realized is they almost all copy each other. They just put different names on there and say we're the best and the latest. And I was like, hell, you're almost teaching me word for word. And they're three different institutions that are saying they're all the best, but it's just, they've gone from like Michael's NLP to John's NLP to, you know, motivation nlp. And. And so I was sort of disappointed with that. And I thought, I want to dive deeper into this. So I started going and looking at all the research on the principles that they were teaching, and I realized that about 30% of it is phenomenal, right? The. The language. Language Patterns, question asking, chunking, all of those things. The stuff in linguistics was really, really good. The tools and methodologies, though, were pretty trash. And it was because when I dove deep, there was. There was other. Other explanations for why change was happening. And also there was a lot of confirmation bias. There was a lot of, you know, like, it's a placebo effect, right? But over a long period of time, I saw this in my own clients, and I saw this in other people who were using these techniques that over a period of time, there wasn't a lot of change happening. There was an excitement and elation that came with, you know, doing an event or something like that, but over a long period of time, that wasn't there. And, you know, everyone, I think everyone who's probably listening to this has gone and done a motivation event or gone and done something. And afterwards you're like, yeah, that was fucking amazing. And you feel different. But that could come down to the fact that you've had, you know, four or five days away from your environment. You've met a bunch of. A bunch of new people, you've learned some new information, which is exciting. There's hope. So that it could come down to a whole bunch of different things, right? So what I did then was I looked into these principles, and I was like, okay, let's. Let's study psychology. And so I started studying a lot of psychology, just reading a lot of textbooks and, you know, listening, watching a lot of, you know, different therapists and things like that. And there was just so many gaps. I was like, all right, cool. In order to understand psychology, I need to understand how the brain works. So then I started dipping into neuroscience. And by the way, I'm not a psychologist. There are. There is probably, you know, some amazing psychologists out there. And there. There are, right. But, like, every industry, 10 are at the top, and they're crushing it. 90 are there because it's a job, and they have no idea what they really want to do in life. And that's unfortunate, especially when you're working with people. You know, I see this in the coaching industry. People come to me and they're like, I'd love to be a coach. And I'm like, don't do it. I try to. I try to tell them not to. People say, I want to start a business, and I'm like, don't do it. And I explained to them all the reasons why starting a business is the worst thing that you ever do. Super hard, it's super competitive. Your competitors want to take your Customers, you're going to have to work your ass off. You're going to have to learn, you've got to be super adaptable. You're going to go many years, we don't make any money while you figure out if you do make money, it's going to be easy. You're going to get excited about things, think that things is going to be easier than what it is, and then you're going to make stupid decisions and you're going to learn the hard way. Like running a business sucks. Being a coach sucks. Now for the people who really want to do it, they listen to that and they're like, fuck you, I'm going to do it anyway. Because that's what they really want to do. The people who come in and they're like, oh, I'd love to be a coach. You know, my coach charges $80 a one hour session. I could leave my job working for $30 an hour and go earn $80 an hour. But what they don't realize is now they've got to do taxation, they've got to do accounting. You know, I was reading, I was reading a thing the other day, sorry to go off track and I think I've just taken over your podcast. That's all right, I'll come back and I'll stitch all this together. But I was reading this article, right, and there's this girl on Tick Tock and she's complaining because she got a, I think it was like $120,000 tax bill or something like that and she's complaining and you know, she does only fans and you know, so she's classified as a sex worker and blah blah, blah. And she's going, you know, it's that, you know, I've been hit with this hundred and twenty thousand dollar tax bill. So this accountant gets on there, who's a Tick Tock accountant and he gets on, he's like, well, you know, you really, you needed to be earning about $400,000 this year if you're paying that amount of tax or around about that, right? So I mean, look, some asshole is going to figure these numbers out and then send me a message and go, that's not correct. Shut the fuck up. Go, go, go talk to a wall or something. Like, don't talk to me about that, right? But you get the point. And, and the thing is, is like from the outside everything looks sexy from the, from the top, right? So people say my supercar and they go, wow, this guy must be crushing it. I'd love to be a coach. Like I'd love to make a million bucks a year, but I don't make a million dollars a year. I pay, you know, let's say I pay a tax rate of 30. So 300 grand goes to the government every year. You know how hard it is, right, to, to transfer $300,000 to, to, to a government that pays for shit that I don't give a whether it pays for or not. Like that's.

Why do you think I'm traveling the world, mate? Why do you think I'm floating around right now?

And you know, I've got staffing costs. So the amount of staff that I've hired that have been non productive. I've wasted millions of dollars on staff just to learn how to hire people effectively. I've spent millions of dollars on marketing. That has been absolute dog shit that I've just lost, right? And, and that's tough, you know, when Covid hit, sitting here in my office just going, man, the whole company's gone. Like we're essentially gone. And then, you know, having to have that reflection of maybe everything that I've worked hard for. You know, I had 16 staff at the start of COVID you know that I'm going to have to pretty much fire them all. And we didn't. I kept them all for a year and then I ended up getting rid of them just because they were unproductive and non effective. And Covid really brought that out. But my point is like whatever you do in life is super hard if you want to be good at it. And I think that any field, whether it's psychology or not, has that same principle, medicine. You know, we have amazing medical doctors who come to my events, but they're the ones who are the 10%. The other 90% are just doing the same thing, just trying to put their kids through school. They want to have the Mercedes in the BMW so it looks like they're successful. You know, they spend all their money on holidays and shit trying to buy back some of their happiness. And then outside of that they're essentially lost trying to figure it out and hoping for retirement, which is wasting a life. So coming back to it, psychologist, trying to learn from, did the NLP stuff. And then I started diving into psychology, started diving into more of, you know, neuroscience, looking deeper and deeper. And I went, in order to understand neuroscience, I need to understand chemistry. So I studied chemistry. Then I was like, chemistry is really a branch of philosophy, sorry, of physics. So I started studying physics and, and all the, over the last 15 years, I've studied philosophy in depth. You know, whether it be New Age spirituality or the great thinkers. I think, you know, if you want to be a great thinker, you've got to study other great thinkers. So I've studied like Schopenhauer, you know, I've gone back and looked at Aristotle and Plato, and I've only just actually started reading. Actually, I've studied nature as well. There's just. There's heaps of them that I've gone back and studied. I've just started reading Sigmund Freud's Interpretation of Dreams. So I. I kept studying and I was like, there's all these gaps. Then around about eight years ago, I came across Dr. John Demartini. I was speaking in Mexico. I was doing a speaking gig over there, like a leadership summit. And I was talking to him and I was saying, look, I've got all these gaps and blah, blah. And he said, you got to come and do some of my stuff. So I jumped in and started learning from him. And I was like, man, he's just put together so many of the missing links, which was really, really cool. And now he's become a good friend. Like, his daughter is a. Is a close friend of mine. She's only recently got married. I think, you know, next year I think she's having a second wedding in Greece or something like that. And she invited me and my wife to come along. So, you know, I started learning from them and I thought, you know, this is phenomenal, but I don't want to be somebody else. I want to be myself. And so I'm a bit more of a gritty, no bullshit coach. You know, I like to tell people how it is. I like to. I like to confront people because I think if you confront. If you confront them in a empowering way and you can say things in a way where people sit there and they go, shit, there's something to that. And they think about it. That's where change happens. Like, it's. It's that thought process and then the decision. That's where everything changes. You know, the guy last week, he rang me up and I haven't heard from him in a year. I was doing. I'd spoken to him multiple times and he wanted to work with me, but he sort of me around a little bit. It was one of those sales that, you know, yeah, I'm keen, I'm keen. And then you try to chase them up and then they don't answer their phone. And then a couple of weeks later, so. Oh, man, sorry, I'm busy. You know, let's chat next week and then doesn't rock up. So anyway, I got on the phone to him and I just, I. We went through the whole sales process. I knew he needed my help and at the end he just went, you know, yeah, leave it with me. I'll think about it. And nothing happened. And I got pissed. So the next time I spoke to him, I just said, look, dude, I can tell that you're one of those people that has to hit rock bottom before something changes because you're afraid of making decisions when things are okay. And that's really the difference between high achievers and those who aren't, right? You're going to make the decision. It's just. Does the decision have to happen at rock bottom when you lose everything? How much do you have to lose? Or do you make the decision today and then you don't have to lose everything? Either way, you're going to be scared when you make that decision. It's going to be tough when you make it, but you're going to make it. Now, some people avoid making it for their whole entire lives, but they drug addicts, they're alcoholics, you know, they're the people who really suffer throughout their own lives. You know, pain, Pain. Pain is inevitable. Suffering is a choice. And people suffer because they just don't make the decision that they need to make. They keep putting it off. And pain is there to motivate them to make that, that choice, that change. So anyway, sorry about hijacking podcast. I've got about 15 stories going all at the same time that are sort of interlinking into each other. But anyway, I sort of then started questioning myself about how do I want to present this information and so on. But yeah, any. Anyway, coming back to the story with the guy, I. I sort of, I thought, you know what, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. He. He's gonna make a decision. He's gonna make a change either way. It just depends on how I handle this. So I essentially took a inside of his brain where, you know, I pushed him hard enough and I asked him questions enough because I said to him, like, what is it gonna take for you to make the decision to change? Because you're, you're avoiding it. And what I said is that, you know, you're, you're going to be, you're going to struggle no matter what you do if you don't make better decisions. Now, he rang me up last week and he said, you know, I know it's been a year, but that question that you asked me and pushing me fucked with my head for the last year. And he said, I'm ready. I went, okay, cool. It just took him, you know, a year. But anyway, I just realized that I had to walk my own path and be my own person. And then I guess that's where, you know, I am now. Like, I'm just. I'm just doing my own thing. I enjoy doing what I do. I think I've got my own way of doing things. Like, I hate. Some people come to me and they're like, you're like Tony Robbins. And I'm like, off. Tony Robbins is like me. You know, you're like Dr. John Demartini, and I'm like, Dr. John Demartini's like me. I. I joke because both of those two people have had influences on my life as they have, you know, a lot of people out there, but I'm not them. I've learned parts from them, and I've put together my own systems, my methodologies, my own way of coaching and my own personality on it. And I think that's what everybody should do in their own life, like, find your lane. Stay in your lane and run it as hard as you can, man.

Feel that. Oh, so many directions I can go here, but I guess I'll just share what. What I took from our time together. There's many things I've taken, but one of the main things, what you just alluded to was when you're having a conversation with someone, especially a sales conversation, it's a lot of it is around helping someone make a decision. And I've. Thanks to you, my whole perspective on sales is completely transformed. And I now see a sales is like a transformational call because of what can happen when you help someone see the power of making a big decision and, like, breaking beliefs on sales calls. And I feel like you're a real master at that, at really challenging someone and doing it from a place of, like, this person needs to make this decision, and the challenge or opportunity is, can you help them see that and allow them to come to that answer? And so many coaches, me included, you know, we're just not direct enough, we're not ballsy enough, we're not confident enough on these calls to actually help someone get to a decision that's gonna change their life. And I feel that's one of the things that shifts. You didn't directly answer this, but in your answer, this is what I hear is like, this is the difference between a coach who makes over a million dollars in a business and a one that doesn't is he's willing to sit in that discomfort and allow someone to sit in that discomfort. And it may take them a year, but the transformation was created in those, those powerful questions that you ask. So yeah, I know the people listening receive that, but I just wanted to reiterate what I heard in a lot of the things you just shared there. One thing I love about you, bro, is the wealth of knowledge you've accumulated and then you're bringing it into your own system, your own framework, your own methodology. And I told you that I was going to a Joe Dispenser event, I'm actually going next week. And you were like, you need to come to one of my events. It's like, it's a, it's a whole nother thing. And I'm like so curious and inquisitive now to like, what, what the hell goes down at these events? Can you give us a bit of insight? It's like how do you run these events and what do you help people crack, Crack into or tap into?

Look, I think there's, there's two reasons why and I think this is, you know, I've worked with you recently on building your own frameworks and stuff like that so you can walk your own path. So what I realized this was probably about seven or eight years ago. I wasn't getting traction in my own life. I would work really, really hard and then on self sabotage or I would just get burnt out and I would, you know, try to avoid dealing with problems and shit like that. Whether, whether I wanted to admit it back then, I probably didn't know it. Now looking back, I can see, I can see that's what I was doing. But I just remember this one day I went to, you know, a big motivation event and you know, one of, one of my original mentors was, was one of Tony Robbins top head trainers in Australia. And so I used to go to all these, these events and shit and I would jump up and down, I'd high five people and I'd feel awesome. And I was like, man, everybody has to do this, this is amazing. But what I didn't realize was I kept getting elated and excited. Now what goes up has to come back down. Like our, our, our, our emotions. If we look at what emotions are and, and I've, I scientists and so on, normally what happens. Part of the challenge that we've got at the moment is that in scientific fields they Have a depth of knowledge and it's normally really long, but really narrow. Now the reason why I believe that holistic therapists or holistic practitioners need to work with specialists is because specialists know a lot about a very little, whereas a holistic person knows a little about a lot. And so they need to work together. I used to see this when I used to work in the physical rehab. And what would happen would be someone would walk into the doctor. Now you gotta understand that a doctor is a doctor of medicine. They study medicine. So they walk into a doctor who's supposed to be a health professional. Which, you know, it's debatable whether they are or not. Some are, but a lot of them are, have studied medicine. And so everything has, almost everything has some sort of an influence, but is influenced by medicine. And so then, and this isn't taking credibility away because I think the medical industry do amazing things, especially like motor accident injuries, disease, things like that. But they're taking people that are below the average line and moving them back up to average. So you take someone in a car accident, your, your goal isn't as, as a, as a medical doctor or in most cases a specialist. Your goal isn't to take them from being average and making them awesome. Your job is to take them from being absolutely obliterated in a car accident and putting them back together so that then they can have some sort of normality in life. So when I look at a lot of those industries, even the mental health industry, it's about taking someone from a place of being not in a good place and then moving them back up to average. On the opposite, I take people from average and make them awesome. That's, that's the, that's where I like to play. So, you know, I don't work with people who, who are, you know, have hit rock bottom and stuff. I, I get them coming to my events, but that's not, that's not, that's not who I advertise to. So where was I going with that? Your question was about my events. So I'd gone to these, these personal development events, jumping up and down, high fiving people and I'd eventually I, I'd essentially got myself where I became addicted to the high of the jump up and down and the, you know, over exaggeration of my skill sets and the, you know, the visions of what I could achieve in the future. And I'd get home and I'd be like, yeah, right, I'm going to crush it. I'm going to make like 20 million bucks next year when I hadn't even made 80k. And then, you know, all I ended up doing was I'd, I'd go hard for about two weeks and then I would just melt down. And when I'd have a meltdown, I'd have all these self defeating thoughts. I'd beat the out of myself mentally and emotionally. I feel lazy. And so, you know, when, when we look at our emotional states, our emotional states are essentially. You've got a perception, the perception in your mind from your senses go through your brain and they change the neurochemistry, that neurochemistry changes our physical chemistry. Chemistry through hormones. So when we get excited and we have these thoughts that are elated, thoughts where we think that we're better than what we are, when we perceive that everything's positive all the time, you know, when we get overexcited or overstimulated, that has to crash. And so what most people don't realize in those types of events is that the low is directly proportional to the high. So your ruts essentially come from your elated thoughts. So that's why these days people come up to me and they're like, man, so cool to meet someone who's like super positive and happy. And I'm like, I'm not. And they're like, but you're not negative. And I'm like, I know. I try to be pretty, pretty balanced. Like I'm, I have enthusiasm, I'm enthusiastic and I'm, I'm an energetic person, right? And I have an intensity that I operate because I love what I do. But that doesn't mean that I'm positive. I don't see my, I don't even think about positivity. I think that it's just such a shitty metric. Most people live in shitty metrics. I just want to be happy. Happiness comes and goes. It's like I've been happy 10 times this morning. And I've been unhappy 10 times this morning, right? I went to go to the bathroom and there's no toilet paper in there. And I'm like, oh man. But I didn't get depressed, right? I'm just like, oh, now I need to go get toilet paper. Then they'd like, you know, this morning I was walking and. And when I go for a walk in the morning, my goal is to make every person smile that I walk past. So I walk past my good morning, good morning. And I'm like, cool. There's moments of happiness there. But I don't base my Life on it because it's, it comes and it goes. So it's just a shitty metric. It's just, it's not a good idea, right? It's like basing. To me, it's like basing your life on oxygen. Now if I'm like, I breathed in cool, I got some oxygen. Oh, now it's carbon dioxide. And I'm depressed. Oh, now I'm happy again. Oh, now I'm depressed. Like, it's just such a shitty metric. But that's how most people live. It's like, I want to avoid negativity and I want to be positive all the time. Why you're gonna, your whole day, your whole week, your whole month is just gonna be a yo yo. I don't want that. I want to wake up today and just be juiced to get shit done. And I am. And I'm like, that's what excites me is like the progression. Progression excites me. Okay? But progress isn't always obvious. Progress. And I'll get back to my event. Progress. You know, progress sometimes isn't obvious because sometimes when you're progressing in, like when you progress in business, and I'll, you know, I have a lot of business owners who go through this. A lot of business owners look at the financial statement and so they go, wow, we're progressing, we're making all this money. I'm doing a good job. And I'm like, ah, don't be, don't be ignorant. Because when you're making money, the business starts to churn more money. And there are other things that start to go wrong. Like you might start. You get to a place where you become complacent and you're watching the, the cash flow, but you're not watching staff inefficiencies and ineffectiveness. You're not watching how customers are operating. So you might be going forward in your finances, but actually going backwards with staff efficiency and effectiveness, that's eventually going to come back and bite you in the ass. So then you start working on staff productivity and effectiveness and putting systems in your business and maybe sales drop. So cash flow dries up. Most business owners get all depressed and like, man, we got to make more money. But what they're not realizing is that if you always focus on making money, you're going to be. You're going to spend sometimes depressed and sometimes happy. What I do is when I'm not making money, I'm like, right, where, where else are we growing? Okay, cool. We're growing in systems. We're growing in process, so we're moving forward in that area. I don't go backwards. I only go forwards. And even when I go backwards, I'm going forwards because I'm getting my ass whooped in a way where I got to learn something, and that's helping me to progress. That's. That's the fucking genius of life that most people don't comprehend. You cannot have a loss without a gain. And most people only see the loss or they see the gain. The smart person sees the gain in the loss and the loss in the game. And that's. That's sort of what I do. But anyway, coming back to my events, I would. I was having these peaks and troughs, and I was, you know, I was the coach who was always the positive guy. I'd studied a heap of spirituality, you know, back when Joe Dispenza wasn't even running large events, like when he used to just speak on Louise O hay stages and stuff like that. Like, we're talking 15 years ago, whatever it was. You know, I used to go to those events and seminars and, you know, I'd watch a lot of people who'd float in, you know, on a cloud that they, you know, that obviously not been to Earth for a long, long time. You know, those spiritual people, they just float in and float back out again. And I was like, man, there's. There's a lot of people here who are all juiced by learning, but they're not doing anything and they're not getting anywhere, and. And there's a trap. So after having this meltdown one day, I went and I sort of tried to figure out what tools I had to help me. And what I did was I came up with a map for my own life, which is now called the Mojo Success Map or Map for Success. And I just realized that I was running into everyone else's lanes. I didn't know who I was. I didn't really know what I wanted to achieve. Even though I'd convinced myself that I thought I knew who I was, I actually didn't really know, because unless you run your own lane, you're going to compare yourself to everybody else, right? And sometimes that creeps in my mind as well. But I got to remind myself, like, you know, just be mojo. Just. Just do my thing. And when you do your thing, you have a lot of courage. Because I know that no one else can do it better than me. Like, I don't compete with anyone. That's the reason why, you know, we work together. I'm not competing with you. My goal is to get you out there and to do. To do the best that you can so that I have another warrior out there who's out there helping people just in a different way. I know that, like, I'm pretty gritty and blunt, and, you know, to be honest, I tell people, like, I'm the asshole that you need, right? Because some people are too. They're too nice to everybody else. And I'm like, I'm the asshole that you need. You're not. You're not that same person, right? You help people in a different way in a different Persona, in. In a different. In a different way that you do that, and the world needs that as well. You know, not. Not everyone can eat like. Like, I love eating bread, but, you know, not everyone can eat white bread every day. No, it gets boring after a while. So, you know, you know, we need. We need different. Different styles, different methodologies, different toppings and all that. And so that's. That's why I do what I do. But, yeah, I just realized I needed this real clarity on my map. And so I say that there's three key pillars. Number one, you've got to figure out what fulfills you, and that comes through clearly. And when I say clearly, I mean so fucking clearly that you don't question it. Your values and your values aren't things like kindness, happiness, honor. They're all. They're social idealisms. Everyone wants people to be kind to them, but at the same time, that's also the thing that stops them from progressing. Because that's. It's a. It's a bullshit terminology, like, what is kindness? Kindness. To me, if you ask a hundred different people what kindness is, they. They'll also. They'll say something different depending on what their real values are. So, you know, like a parent will say, well, kindness is making sure that you prioritize your kids. A business owner will say, kindness is giving people jobs and, you know, supporting economic growth. If you go to someone else who has a high value on creativity, they might say, you know, it's releasing art or creative expression to the world. And they're all right, right? They're all correct. But you have to identify the thing that makes you different than everybody else, and that is your core values. So these are physical, tangible things that you're actually trying to achieve within your own life. So that's, number one from. When you get clear on your values, then you can clearly identify a life purpose. And it takes me probably about two to Three minutes to get someone super clear, crystal clear on their life purpose. And takes me probably about five minutes to do their values. So you've got values, purpose, and then from there, that's where you understand your lifestyle balance. You know, I hear every week people talking about lifestyle balance, but how do you define that? I work 80 hours a week. That's me being balanced. I work less than, you know, 60 to 80 hours a week. And I feel imbalanced. Like, if I go on a holiday and I sit around for half a day, I can recover. I'll have a day of probably sleep and rest. The next day I get up and I'm all grumpy and frustrated because I just want to work. And some people say, oh, but that's because you've got, like, high adrenaline and nuts. Because that's what I love to do. That's my gift to the world. Everywhere I go, Jess will say, can you go get milk? I go to the shop, I come home like two hours later, and she goes, where have you been? I was getting milk, and I said hi to this guy. How you doing? He was like, oh, man. You know, I've had a rough week. And I'm like, next second I'm having a half an hour dnm, you know, deep and meaningful with this guy. And then the next second we're having coffee, and she's like, hell, you're unbelievable. I like, everywhere I go, I talk to people because I like, I want to know how people are. Like, I want to. I want to know legitimately how people think and whether they're getting the results that they want. So, you know, they're. They're my values, but that's my lifestyle balance. Like, I can't. I don't like holidays. I just don't like them. I love traveling, but I love traveling because learning, teaching and coaching is my highest value. So I want to go somewhere where I can learn. So, you know, like, if, for instance, if I. If I go to Bali, I'll work. I go to Bali quite a bit. Or I used to. I sort of haven't since covered. I've gone once, but I would go over there. I would go and hang out with locals and go and learn stuff about their culture. You know, we'd go for. For walks in all different areas to just see locals and stuff like that. I'd go to temples and to. To learn about their culture. Like, I love that stuff. To me, that's my type of travel. Whereas Jess, on the other hand, has a high value of experiences. So she wants to go bungee jumping and all that sort of where that doesn't really get, it doesn't really excite me. I've done it, but it doesn't, I'm not, I'm not really that interested in it. I'll do it more for her. So, yeah, your lifestyle balance is unique to you. And everyone's talking about this like work life balance. And I don't even know what the that is. I don't think anyone can define it. Like you take someone who loves working and you tell them to work 50, 50 of their life and 50 at home, they might have a low value on family. And so because of that they, they just switch off, they become preoccupied, their mind becomes, you know, clouded and all that. Like your brain is giving you feedback. If your mind is all cloudy and there's shit going on everywhere, it's telling you that there's something going on and you're not living your values or, or you're unclear on something. So anyway, pillar one is fulfillment. You get those three things right, Your values, your purpose and your lifestyle balance. And you, you have a fulfilling life. That's why I love what I do. I don't want to work less. I, I do what I do. I love training. So I exercise anywhere between 1, 1 to 3 hours a day or move. That's just how I operate. I've heard people say you over train. I'm like, dude, you look like a fucking pencil. Shut up. Right? Whereas I'm like, you know, a fairly solid dude for someone who doesn't take gear. Like I'm 40, I'm 40 and I'm still, you know, pretty big for a 40 year old that's never taken gear. So that's just my lifestyle balance. But my mum's the complete opposite. She's got a high value on family and social connections. So she's always out hanging out with people and doing stuff that to me isn't, I like hanging out with people, but people that I can learn from or people that I can coach, you know, I don't like just having shitty general conversations. So that's pillar one. Pillar number two is direction. You've got to have clarity on where you're heading in life, which comes down to your visions, your mission and your goals. Now most people have bullshit visions and missions that are based on fantasies and delusions, not their values. And I used to do it all the time. You know, I'd want to buy a super yacht and I'd want to have, you know, houses all around the world. And now I'm like, I couldn't be fucked having houses around the world. Like, I've got one house, and it's a pain. It's a pain in the ass. I would. I would have property that I can rent out and make money from, but I need someone else to manage it because I don't want to take away from my number one priority, which is this. That's why I invest quite heavily in the share market. And when I say invest, I invest long term. I haven't sold a share for probably 12 years because I invest and I leave it there because I don't want it to affect my primary source of income, which is this and the thing that I love. So I put all my effort. I put 95% of my effort energy into this and 5% into the. The market because it just. It's a distraction. So you've got to bust those fantasies and delusions which most people have, which then they think becomes a mission. Like, I spoke to a guy yesterday. He's like, dude, I want financial freedom. Like, man, shut the fuck up. I'm like, you're trapped financially, aren't you? I didn't say that to him, but, like, that's what goes on in my head. I'm like, man, what you're talking about is financial freedom is financial delusion. I'm like, who do you know who's financially free? And he's like, oh, well, you know, I. I know. I know this guy who's made a lot of money and, you know, now he's retired. And I'm like, cool. What's his mental health like? Oh, he's all right. I'm like, how much does he drink? Oh, yeah, he drinks a beer. And I'm like, okay, cool. What's his health like? Oh, I guess he's a bit overweight. I'm like, cool. So the dude retired. Now what you're saying is that he's fat, he's a alcoholic, and what else? Oh, he travels a bit. Excellent. Does he enjoy it? Or does. Does he not enjoy travel because now he's fat and overweight? What's his intimate relationship like? Everything in nature grows or dies. If you are not growing your finances, you're killing your finances. Right. If your intimate relationship isn't growing, you're killing your intimate relationship. If your health is not getting better, you are killing your health. Right? So it's either growing or dying. That's a law of nature. Now, how do things grow in nature? Through stress. And there's something called eustress. It's spelled EU stress. Now, eustress comes from living our values. When we leave our values, we enjoy the stress, we enjoy the pressure. Now, in the universe, this is a universal thing. Everything in the universe either expands or contracts. Nothing stays the same. So again, you're either growing and expanding or you're contracting and dying. Stress creates growth and pressure creates expansion. Now, I try and teach this all the time to people because they're like, oh, man, you know, I just want to retire. And I'm like, what, so you can get away from pressure and stress? Think about it. Stop being a moron. Like, let's not be. Let's not be fucking silly here. What you're saying is you're doing shit that is outside of your values, that is unfulfilling. And so because of that, it is creating too much stress and pressure that you don't want it. And so you're trying to find an escape. That's really what happens with humans, which 100 tells me that I have their success map clear. When you wake up in the morning and you put on, you know, a gridiron or an NFL helmet, you're like, yeah. And you run head first on into your problems in the day and you're tackling. That's when you're crushing it in life. Like, I love having a day where I have heaps of challenges. And at the end of the day, I'm like, nailed it. They're the days. Not the days that I'm sitting around like, oh, man, I don't have any problems. Oh, life's good. I sit there for like two minutes. That's. That's a fantasy happening in my head. I sit there for like two minutes and my brain goes, you lazy piece of shit. And then I'm like, man, I need to go get this done. Come on, I need to do that now. And maybe what I need is I need some food. And then I start ordering food, and then I'm binge eating and, you know, I'm doing destructive shit. People are destructive when they don't have problems to solve, when they don't have challenges to, you know. And then I meet all these people. They're like, oh, man, I'm so stressed out because, you know, I'm overeating and I'm binge eating. My health's turned to shit and know money's gone bad. I'm like, take on challenge, then get up and. And own the challenge of the day. Now you're in control. You Avoid that now you're out of control. And when you're out of control, you want to avoid everything because you're out of control. Does that make sense?

Dude, this is absolute fire. So.

Oh, sorry.

Yeah.

Okay.

Finish, finish, finish it. Yeah.

Is performance psychology. You've got to know how to tap into this stuff. Like, a lot of the stuff that I teach is mental and emotional balancing tools. So I've got a tool that I created called the process potential. It is based on physics principle, because I believe that physics influences the brain. And so what we want to do is we want to create in. We want to create balanced perceptions, because once you change the perception, you actually change the way that your neurons fire within your brain. When you change that, which you can do pretty quickly if you do that well enough, and you get an aha moment. That aha moment is what the mystics called enlightenment, because when a positive and negative charge collapse on themselves, in physics, it's called. It's essentially a positron electron. When they collapse inside of themselves, they admit a photon. That photon is light. So I believe that when you're collapsing perceptions inside your brain, you actually have moments of enlightenment. Those moments of enlightenment are the things that create change. Now, I don't believe that humans are enlightened. I think that's a myth that mystics create in order to create followers. And. And I don't like followers. I don't. I don't have followers. I don't. I don't create followers. I create leaders because I don't want people to follow me. If people follow me, they're walking in my shadows, and they're trying to be like me. And I don't. That's not what I'm here to do. I'm here to create them to walk their own path. So what I want to do is change the perception. They get that aha moment. Now, from there, when the brain fires that new perception, it has to create a new understanding. That new understanding is something called Heb's law. And Hebb's law states that circuits in the brain that fire together. Why together? So now we're starting to create new habits. When those circuits fire, you have a change in neurochemistry. And that change in neurochemistry changes hormones. The change in neurochemistry and the change in hormones now change the way we feel. And because of the change in how we feel, we now change the way we behave. And when we behave a certain way, it reinforces the thought processes that we have. So we have feedback Loops. This is my belief of my research, and I've had medical doctors come and say, this is fucking genius. But I believe that if we. We have consistent feedback loops from our thoughts to our emotions to our feelings that reinforce who we believe we are. Now, if I can change the perception that you have about yourself and about the world around you, you automatically change the belief. You change the neurochemistry, you change the behavior. So you're in a consistent state of progression or flux versus being in a consistent state of certainty, which is what most people crave. But that's the thing that keeps them stuck.

So are you helping them focus on a specific change or like a specific ideal of who they're trying to become or just shifting perceptions that eventually creates the change?

What I believe is that you are who you are and your values and your purpose drive that. Now, I don't know that we're born. I'm not sure. Right, because philosophy, Philosophy and science have to work together. So if you go to quantum physics, you've got quantum theory and then you've got quantum mechanics. Theory is the philosophy of the quantum state. I mean, I'm gonna get killed by someone if they, if they study this stuff. But you get my point, right? Like, you've got essentially a philosophy of ideas. These are ideas, people who are thinking different ideas and they're questioning everything and they're going to, okay, well, we perceive that this could be happening. And then the quantum mechanics people are the hard scientific people that come together and they're like, right, let's test it and let's see if it, if it's accurate or not. They both work together. And this is the problem with modern medicine. Modern medicine has a lot of people who have. Are in rote learning. And so they learn something, they repeat it. And Covid was a prime example of this. The majority of the industry couldn't think outside the square because they got told something. They went, well, it has to be correct because we were told it and, you know, we subordinate or we, we follow in the shadows of, of the experts. So therefore they have to be right. Whereas the smart ones who questioned it, who were more philosophical and looked outside the box, they got crucified. But in order for things to progress, in order for science to progress, you need philosophy and you need science working together. Because the philosophical people go, well, we perceive that this is how things could work. And they think in highly intelligent, highly intellectual ways. Now, I'm not talking about. There's always extremes to everything. So there's like the Extreme dumb fuck philosopher who just perceives like something and because they perceive it, it's got to be true. Then you've got the hardcore scientists and the hardcore mechanics people that are like the crazy engineers that are just like, it has to be done this way because that's the way that it is. Both of those two people are at extremes. They're, they're both unintelligent. Right in the center point is intelligence. When you look at the greatest thinkers on the planet throughout history, they've normally, they normally are either philosophers who, who have a strong scientific mind, or they're scientists who have a strong philosophical mind. And that's what makes him a great thinker. So what I perceive is that there's something with innate in us that is potentially epigenetic. Like if you have a look, when the sperm hits the egg, you essentially have a father figure or, or a male that is essentially giving you information. So the sperm contains information from the father. You've got the mother figure who has an egg, who, who that also has information from the mother. And we call that genetics. Genetic is essentially the transfer of information. Now if you have a look, the only thing that evolves that I've been able to, that I've been able to find, and I could be wrong with this, but the only thing that I've found that evolves in nature is information and in the universe. So genetics isn't, is only the transfer of information from a mother figure and a father figure. So our values maybe in our mission might be influenced by mother and father figure. Okay? And then there's this combination. When the sperm hits the egg, then you've got your. When a child's in utero, it essentially is being bathed in the chemical component from the mother that is, is teaching the fetus or the, the child when it's born about the external environment. So if the mother's always stressed, the mum's saying there's a stressful environment. Externally you need to get ready to run or be more in the flight fight and freeze response. So now in the flight fight and freeze response, the child has parts of the brain that are more developed than child who doesn't have that same stress response from the mother. Now, neither's good or bad, but what you'll find is that some children are born and they're more, they have better reflexes, they learn how to walk earlier and like that because the parts of the brain that are involved in, in motor actions are more developed because they're getting ready to run and fight and Attack and do from a younger age, because they're being bathed in stress chemicals a bit more now. Then you've got other children that aren't born into that. And they might be really uncoordinated, but really highly intelligent, and they might be able to think more. They've got more of the prefrontal cortex that's developed and so on. So is there an influence in utero that influences our path? Potentially, then you have influences from a young age of environment, and then maybe that influences. So there's different fields of science have different theories about where this drive that we have comes from. I'm not 100% sure. I think all of them have an influence. But then what happens, I believe, is that we have an inner knowing around who we are. That inner knowing, I believe, is our. Our values, our purpose, our mission. And if we get clear on those things and we're giving. We're getting given signs all the time about them. Like, I noticed I used to watch movies. It was actually demartini who put me onto this. He said, have you ever watched a movie or have you ever listened to music and you start to tear up because you're inspired by it? That's. That's a sign of your path. If you document them and you keep track of them, you get more clarity around what you're here to do. I love watching people. So I was watching actually Chad Smith, the drummer from Red Hot Chili Peppers. Jess came out, she knows I love music. And she said, check this out. And it's Chad Smith, the drummer from the Chili Peppers. He. He's on this, this TV, this series on YouTube where they play music that he hasn't heard. And he gets one listen to it without the drums, and then he has to try to figure out how to play the drums. And he just fucking unleashed. And watching that, I started welling up because I witnessed someone expressing their greatness. And that's what I love to do, is I love helping people to get that clear on themselves. And from a young age, when I was 10 years of age or 11 years of age, around about that 10, 11, maybe 12, Ed and Senna died, the Formula One racer. And I remember walking out into the lounge room. Now, I was never a fan of Ed and Center, I am now, but I heard Mariah Carey song Hero, and for some reason I just started crying and I couldn't figure out why. I thought it was because I was sad because of the passing of Eden Senna. It wasn't until probably about six, seven years ago I heard that song again. I started welling up and I thought, this isn't sadness, this is something else. And so I went and had a look at the. The words of hero. When a hero comes along with the strength to carry on you pass your fears aside and you know you can survive. When you feel like hope is gone look inside you and be strong you'll finally see the truth that the hero lies in you.

I'm goosebumping hard man.

Me too. Almost makes me well up just saying it. So maybe from 10 years of age I was getting an insight into why I'm here. Maybe we're just not. Maybe we're not that aware. So anyway, I went back, started documenting all those songs, started documenting everything. And I'm like, my whole thing that I love to do is to help people thrive and to be the best that they're. They're born to be and to realize that they have greatness inside of them. My job is to help them express it. So that's essentially what thrive time is. It's getting that map clear, giving you the tools so that you can go and do that. I don't really give a about people that are depressed. As in, like, I don't. It's not that I don't give a about them, I just don't give a about depression. I don't give a about anxiety. People come in with all these labels, you know, and. And I believe that labels are there to understand. They're not there to define. But people use labels to define themselves, right? I got told that I had ADD and dyslexia, and when I was younger, I chose whether to believe that or not. Now, yeah, I probably do. Right. I'm. I'm highly energetic and I'm intense person. Does that mean I have adhd? I don't know. I've never been diagnosed with it. And I. I don't give a whether I am or not. I've had friends who are. And people have come to thrive time who say, you know, you probably have ADHD should go get checked. And I'm like, why, What. What benefit does it give me? I. I've got to have that label for some benefit for me. So I think people go to get. Go to get defined by that label because they're trying to fit into society. Like, if you're working a job and you're highly energetic and highly intense and you can't sit still, and then why the are you working a job that forces you to do that? Go find something else where you can be Energetic. Do you know, I had one of my mentors just helped sell a company for $1.1 billion, and he's the C. The COO, the chief operating officer. So the, the person down from the CEO, the owner of the company. And he's here and we're doing whiteboard sessions and I get up and I go make a coffee. I come back, I sit down for like 10 minutes, I. I crank out some ideas with him, and then I start doing squats on the spot. And he's like, what are you doing? And I was like, man, I gotta move. Like, I'm not, I'm not apologetic for having that energy. That's just the energy that I operate at. Why the. Do I have to dim that in order to try to fit into a whole bunch of average who have shitty energy in our society? Or I can go get myself labeled and get put on, you know, Ritalin and all that sort of shit. Because I have, you know, I operate at a high intensity. I know that people with ADHD can focus very strongly on things that are important to them. That's a gift. Why would you try and get them to average themselves out? And that's society. Society tries to take the top and squeeze them down and try to take the bottom and lifts them up and. Because if you have a look at what averages, if you have a look at what society. Average is the sum total of everything from the absolute peak to the absolute bottom, and it's all compressed together and it's called average. Like, why do I. If I'm at the top, why do I want to be compressed down to the middle? Fuck that part of my French. I hope I'm. Let us swear on this podcast, of course.

Yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, so all these people go and get these labels and it's like, I hear people, they come into my events and they're like, well, you know, I've bipolar and I've got this and I've got adhd and, you know, I've been told that I have chronic fatigue and blah, blah. And I'm like, listen, shut up, I don't care. None of this is your greatness, right? The only reason why you're telling me is because you perceive that you get benefit from having those labels. Now, do you want to be great or do you want to be average? And you want to have labels and you want to fit in. If you want to fit in, go and tell everyone why. Why your life is. Go and tell everyone why you've got all these Things when, why you can't achieve and all that because it's a excuse. Or you can figure out how to understand how you operate as a person from those labels. And then you can use it as a superpower. I use my energy as a superpower. I don't use it as a weakness. Right? When I go through times where I feel down and I feel depressed and I use it as a superpower because I'm like, right, there's a learning here. There are lessons here. Let's go figure this out so I can, I can learn more about myself and so that I can grow and achieve and self actualize. Right? Maslow's hierarchy, self actualizations at the top. So let's get, let's get to work and let's do some personal growth and personal development to figure this out. Because the only reason why I'm feeling down is because it's teaching me something. It's just a kick in the ass to wake up. So let's go and figure it out. Anyway, I hope that's.

That was a master class. I was. You helped me realize that one of my values, primary values, is to learn probably I think similar to you. And even just hearing you speak, I was having those enlightening moments in my mind and I noticed the fulfillment in my body start to come up just in this moment right now listening to you speak. And it was just like live feedback on exactly what you were sharing. And holy shit, man.

Just.

That was. You can tell you've refined your thought processes so well. I just want to acknowledge you. That was really, really special to hear that because I got to make a lot of distinctions just now. One of the key themes that I'm hearing from this, that is something I've just been pondering in my own life, which is why this conversation is very synchronistic, which is like finding your lane and looking at how we're all kind of built differently. And it's so easy to compare your lane to someone else's, especially right now on social media. And what like all these people, like, just to give example Homozy, right? He has a very unique lane. And I compared you often him and I. I've been learning from him and, and you a lot recently. And I've combined the names I call Homojo. I accidentally just started saying it because I was like, I don't know who told me it. Was it Mojo or Homozy? I don't know, it's probably both. But you guys, like operate at a certain, like, frequency that you can't try to emulate that unless you're built that way because you genuinely just love operating at this level of energy. And I think that's the biggest invitation for, for myself and people listening who are maybe a little bit earlier in their journey is like, what, what is that lane? What is that thing that you are built here to do? And don't like judge it, don't judge it as like bad or wrong because you love to just move all the time, you have a lot of energy. And other. Everyone else is saying you need to meditate more. I think that's something that I've been trying to really find my individuality in that path when it comes to business and especially with the things that I talk about, which is like meditation, grounding, grounding your energy and all of this. Do you think there is an element of just time in the game, meaning time alive on earth before you start to get to this level of clarity that you're at? Or is it something that you feel like a 20 year old, like someone in their early 20s can start to really dial it in and remove all the distractions, just go full force in their path?

I think it depends. There's something that Vanaski, the philosopher, he called the newosphere. It's spelled, I think N E N O O S P H E R E Neurosphere. I think I spelled that right. But anyway, so what he, what he stated was that we have, there's a geosphere which is a rock sphere. Then you've got the, you've got the biosphere and that's the living organisms on the planet. The living organisms essentially are a level of intelligence above rock. And so therefore the level above heavily influences the level below. So you essentially then have the, the living organisms shaping the geosphere or the rock sphere. The sphere of rock. Right. And so micro, you know, microorganisms are breaking down rock and taking those minerals and feeding back up into plants and plants holding the soil together and so on. So you've got that influence. Then from there he postulated that the next level of existence was something called a neurosphere, and that is the level of intelligence, or it's called the mind sphere. So what he stated was that humans now have this intelligence where we govern the biosphere. So we essentially can breed animals, we can control the bacteria, all of that sort of stuff. Essentially like our level of intelligence is above that of that below. So now we can shape the way that animals operate, hence farming and all that. But what he said is that we go through these Levels of these levels of spheres of intelligence. Now if you look at it, I really believe that life is great. So every, if you go back to school, you're in grade one. In grade one, you learn a whole bunch of shit, get a whole bunch of lessons, and then the teacher comes along and says, right guys, we've got an exam. And you're like, oh, crap. So you start getting stressed, you start getting frustrated, you start getting worried and you're like, man, am I going to fail this? Am I not going to fail this? And so all your worries and fears come up to the surface. You work through those, you put in the effort and the energy and you pass the test. Now the cool thing is you go to the next grade. When you go to the next grade, everything seems easy again for a little while. So you're like, oh, cool, I'm in grade two now and everything's cool. And then the teacher starts teaching some stuff and you're like, man, this is a bit more challenging, but you're learning, you're growing. And then the teacher comes along and says, right, it's testing. And then you shoot yourself again. So every level, it's the same predictable flow that is at every, at every grade. Now if you're in grade, let's say 10 at school and you go back to grade five, the exam's easy, right? Like, you just go, cool, right? So if we go back to grade two or Middlewing addition, you're like, yeah, cool, I got that. Piece of cake. But the. But at grade, let's say you're in grade 10. Grade 10. Learnings and lessons and tests are hard, but they're not hard. For someone who's at level 15 or grade 15, life is much the same. And that's why you need mentors. Because my mentor comes in who, you know, has built multiple multi billion dollar companies or been the operation person from multi billion dollar companies and he looks at things and he just sees things different. He's like, oh yeah, that's easy. We just move that. And I'm like, fuck it. How did you come up with that? And he's like, oh, it's because of this. And I'm like, I never saw it like that. So he's teaching me in fast tracking, which is why, you know, I believe that people need, the world needs people like us because we're essentially seeing things that other people aren't seeing. Now I've got a good expertise, human behavior, I think I'm definitely highly, highly skilled at and highly competent at, but there are other areas where I'm just absolute like dumb as dog, like computers and stuff like that. Jess, Jess says it all the time. She's like, I'll just message, I'll message her because she's got an office. Just, you know, we, we work from home. I'll message her. And I'm like, I need tech support. And so she comes in, she's like, ah, fuck, you clicked here and you did this. And I'm like, yeah. So it's not my skill set. And I think the faster that people realize that you're shit at 99% of things, once you're okay with that, you actually get onto the 1% of things that you're good at. The problem is that people try to be good at everything when they don't actually don't know what they're good at. And because of that, they ruins their self worth. Like someone comes along, they go, oh, you're, you're shit with computers. And I'm like, yeah, cool, bro, thanks. Thanks for the feedback. I know I'm shit. I don't care. That's, it's not my expertise. So that sort of helps a lot. Now, coming back to the newer spheres, every time you go through a I, this is my, this is my learnings. I have never read this anywhere and I've never heard of it from anybody else, but I believe that every time you go through the test and you come out the other side, you have a identity crisis where you question everything and no one's ever spoken about it, but I've seen it happen hundreds of times at my events where someone gets these learnings and they've got growth and they're going long and then the next second they get rattled and they're going through these challenges, whether it's in business or their relationship or whatever. And then there's all this chaos, all this chaos. And then all of a sudden it goes quiet for a little bit and then they're like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. I don't know where I'm supposed to be. I don't know, is this what I'm supposed. Like, am I supposed to be coaching? Am I supposed to be running a business? What's even the purpose of making money? I don't even know what like. And it's like they just feel lost. I went through this about two and a half years ago when it first clicked and I was watching SAS who Dares Wins? With a guy called Ant Middleton here in, here in Australia. And it was actually the UK version of who does sas, who has wins. And he said when he got out of the special forces in the military, when he came out, he said, I got lost, I took drugs, you know, I got in a lot of trouble and all that stuff. And he said, really what it came down to was I just didn't know. I was completely lost in myself. And so I use self destruction as a way of trying to figure it out. But he said, I was just going through an identity crisis. And I remember for the whole week prior to that, to that comment, I woke up in the morning and we just had, we'd had a bunch of back to back events. Like I was running five day events, seven day events, and I'm speaking for like 50 to 70 hours in a week. And I, I just, I didn't, I. I woke up one day and I was just like, I feel numb. And Jess, my wife, said to me, she's like, what's wrong? And I was like, I don't know. She's like, are you sad? I don't know. You happy? I don't know. She's like, do you feel lost? And I was like, I don't know. I was like, literally numb. I had no emotion. And so she's like, maybe you just need a rest, maybe just burnt out. And I was like, yeah, maybe I am. So I sat on the couch and I downloaded series one of Geordie Shore and I just started watching it and I'm like, I went back to old Sabotage patterns where I just like, I was like, oh, it, I'm gonna order two pizzas. So I just ordered two pizzas and sat on the couch and just binge ate them. And so I'm binge watching TV and I was like, I had no emotions still. I was like, I couldn't give a. I don't care anymore. Whereas normally that would be something where I'm like, you fat, lazy piece of, go exercise. And so it throws me back into my values. But I was lost. I was like, I had nothing again. And I was like, oh man, this is bad. What's going on? Then that night, I ordered Chinese food and over eight again. I was like, man, I still don't even feel like going to the gym and exercising now. That strategy always works for me, ever since I was a young kid. The funny thing is, most humans don't know this. There is no such thing as self sabotage. It is a strategy to help you to realign with your values. So when I would overeat, I Would self criticize and I would look in the mirror and I'm like, you fat? Get. Go work out. And I would hate myself so much. I'd walk in the gym and the next second I'm doing an hour and a half pump session in the gym and I walk out of there, I'm like, yeah, bro, I still got it. Like, so it would, it would switch me back into my values, right? So I tried that. Didn't work. Then I was like, I knew I had to get some sales and I was just like, I don't care. I don't even care about money anymore. About a couple of days in, and I was starting to panic. I was like, man, what's going on? Like, is there something wrong with me? Like, do I have something wrong mentally? Like, am I depressed? I don't even know. And I was just, it was all in my head. I was like caught up and all fucking going crazy. And so I was trying to figure it out. And then when I heard Anne Middleton say he, he, he was having this identity crisis where he didn't know what he was anymore, I was like, that's what it is then. Since then, I've watched people go through my events where these, these aren't people who just come to one event. These are people that have been in the community for a while and they're breaking through and they're doing the work and the tools that I teach, they needed. Like good tools should be used forever. They shouldn't be used once. Right. Because it just. That surgery. Right. I know that if I move every day and I'm consistent with movement, my health is probably going to be improved than someone who doesn't do that. So I move every day. If I drink enough water every day, that's a good habit. I want to do a little bit of mindset work every day because it's a good habit to have versus just doing it when I'm all up. That's like going to the gym when you're fat and overweight and feel gross about yourself, that's cool. But you can lose all that weight and then you're just going to end up up and fat again. And, and then like, it's just going to create these crazy vicious cycles. So yeah, I just, I, I, like, I couldn't, I couldn't figure it out. But once I, once I clicked, I was like, I'm having an identity crisis. I just need to realign myself again with my values. And, and I gave myself. I was just like, you know what? When it clicks back in, we'll click back in. And one morning I woke up and I was like, right, game on, let's go. It was back and it wasn't, sorry, I just probably blew most people's eardrums out with that clap. But my point is that it just clicks. And I was like, shit, this is cool. And I didn't even try to make it click. It was like, it just clicked. It was like it took a week for my brain to integrate my new identity or my new character, my new character traits after the big tests that I'd had. So then I went through this period of time, it was about six months. I'm cruising along and then woke up one morning I was just like, I don't even know who I am, don't care anymore. Like, I just, I don't even fucking know. And I was like, ah, it's that identity crisis again. So I thought, you know what, I'm just going to chill out, not put too much pressure on myself. And I just chilled for a week. The next second it just clicked back in. One morning I woke up, let's go again. And then I started seeing people in the community do it. And what I said to them is, when you go through it, don't make any rational decisions, Just chill out. It could be a week, it could be two weeks, and it could be a month. The longest identity crisis I've had has been about six weeks, right? And I just did the bare minimum for six weeks. So I might work for three hours a day. And then I just chill on the couch and watch tv, go for a walk, not really do too much, don't make any major decisions, don't change strategy in life, anything like that, because you will fuck it up. You'll make a really irrational decision. And yeah, since then it's been like, I know when they're coming. So that's breaking through that new osphere. So coming back to your, your question, because I answered it the same as I've answered every other question in a crazy roundabout way, I think that there is part of an intrinsic desire to want to live up to our own unique level. Also, if you do something interesting, if you go to Google and you type in net charge of the universe, it comes back to zero, which means that there are no positive charges and are no negative charges that aren't balanced. So what I also believe, and I spoke to demartini about this and he believes the same thing as well, that for every value set on the planet, there is a counterbalancing value set. So I have a high value on teaching, learning, coaching. There are people out there who I get every day on Facebook or something like that that are like, I don't know why anyone would need a coach. You're a fucking scam artist. Like, all you're doing is ripping people off. There's someone who has zero value on a coach, zero value on learning, zero value on personal growth. Potentially zero value on account of self accountability. Right, cool. They're my counterbalancer. My second highest value is social connection. There are people out there who have zero value and connection zero. They can isolate themselves, sit in a room by themselves, and they're quite happy and content. That doesn't mean that they're introverted. It means that their value structure isn't that of socializing and social connection. That's fine. People who are social, though, go, oh, man, there's something wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just they're being themselves. That's their lane. And unfortunately, society project values onto other people, which then creates confusion. And then I've got another high value of business and wealth creation. I have people all the time who comes to me and they're like, man, if you cared about people, you wouldn't charge them money. And I'm like, do you work? And they go, yeah, of course I work. I gotta pay the bills. And I'm like, then shut the fuck up, because this is my work. The difference is I love what I do. And you go to a job because you don't know what you want to do. Leave me alone. Right? And I make. I make millions of dollars that then goes back into taxation, employment, study, learning, and also living a cool lifestyle. Who the fuck wants to learn off of a coach who's like a bum that can't even afford to wash their own underwear? Like, that's. If you, if you have a coach like that you like, you probably want to reevaluate your life a little bit. Like, you know, like, your life is cool. You. You travel a lot, you've got a lot of freedom and stuff in what you do. In saying that, there's also a trap there as well. But you're living a lifestyle that is aspirational, which other people want to learn from. I don't like. I didn't buy a supercar to impress others. I bought it because I grew up loving cars. My dad builds custom cars for a hobby. And it's like the ultimate thing for me. When I was a kid, I said, I'm going to have a Ferrari one day. And everyone said don't be unrealistic, don't be sorry. That's unrealistic, Michael. Okay? Got to be more realistic. Every time I see that car in my garage, it reminds me to keep thinking big and backing myself. That car is not for anybody else. That car is for me. It's a reminder of my own inner greatness and self belief so I can give a fuck what people think. I drive around and people call me a dickhead, asshole. I get told that I have a small penis. Like I don't know what that has to do with the car and I don't know what that has to do. But you know, and I don't know why they, they need to even worry about my penis size unless they're going to like, I mean, look, if I.

Triggering people just by having a good car, that's, that's what, you know, you're doing something right.

But that's. You're going to trigger people if you're, if you're living outside of the average in the norm. Yeah, but it's because they're in society. There is a counterbalancing of values. So people with a high value on wealth get criticized by those with a low value on wealth. You have a high value on travel and experiences and stuff like that. I can tell based on your lifestyle. Now there are people out there who will probably say, you know, you need to ground yourself. You probably need to like settle down or ever heard that before?

That's exactly what someone commented in one of my posts before. They're like, I think you're avoiding just grounding and being in one place. You should look into that. I was like, I kind of just, I just value travel and explore. Exploration.

It's like, yeah, they're just the counterbalancer. Right?

Right.

So I don't even give a about that because all they're doing is they're just telling me that they're my counterbalancer. But I, I can react however I want to react. I don't care. The only times I'll ever react to that is when it allows the thread to go on in social media because allows me to get more views. So if you see me reacting to comments that are, that are just wankers.

It'S only stoking the flame. Just stoking it.

Yeah, 100%. But I don't give a shit what people do. I only care. I only really care about bettering myself. But if bettering by bettering myself. I know that I can help other people, then I'm going to do that because it's part of the mission and the purpose that I have. But I don't use other people as a way to try and, you know, create. Not create value, but try to validate my own situation, which I think a lot of people do. You know, there's a lot of coaches in the industry who are like, I'm a nice person. And I say to them, okay, really? Because now, now every lister knows that I just. I. With people. I'm like, really? Does that include yourself? And then I watch and they're like, because being a kind person to everybody else normally means that you're a. To yourself. Right there. There's things called boundaries. If you set boundaries, you are going to piss people off because people want you to fit into their boundaries. People off all the time. They're like, you should do this. And I'm like, you should just leave me alone. And then they're like, you know, if you cared about people, you do this. And I'm like, look, you're not going to manipulate me. You're trying to use guilt and to get me to live in your values. And I'm. I don't feel guilty about what you're saying. I don't. I don't care. Let me do me. You do. You. You're commenting on my. Leave me alone. So, like, I. I wrote this a while ago, and this happened during COVID And it's that if you want to know how to manipulate people, you manipulate them through guilt. Because guilt is the easiest way to manipulate people to get them to live in your values. So when someone comes along, they're like, you should have a family. I'm like, why? Why do you care whether I have a family? Why do you care that if I have kids, does it make your life better? Because I have kids. But. But that's what they're trying to do, is they're saying you should have it, and if you don't, then you're going to feel a certain way. And I have people say that. They're like, you'll regret it in the future. And I'm like, maybe. Maybe you regret not doing the job that you love. Maybe you regret not having a business. I don't know. But it's because I understand human behavior at such a level. I also know that anything that is externalized or exaggerated externally is also a compensation for what's going internally. If people talk to me, I normally know what's going on in their head. And I have people all the time say to me, you don't know me. And I'm like, I probably know you better than you because you're convincing yourself of that's not true. And when someone says to me, I'm a nice person, I'm like, no, you're easily manipulated. And you like other people to think that you're a nice person because they can manipulate you. When you stand up against that, then you're not going to be a nice person to them, but you're going to be a good person to yourself. Now, that doesn't mean if you're emotionally volatile, that's different, right? Because if you're emotionally volatile or you've got psychopathy or something like that, and you've got some sort of a real proper mental issue, that's different. And I always get some dickhead in my comments. It's like, oh, but what about this? There's always exceptions to the rules. Yes, I know, but I'm talking like 95% of the world, if they understand certain things, they will live a better life. And one of those is that, like, you think of the dude that's overconfident. The guy that's overconfident on the outside is exaggerating his confidence for a reason. And you've got to ask why. Now, that is because he's hiding his lack of confidence internally. So I already know that when I meet that dude, he has a lack of confidence. But most people, like, man, that guy's really confident. I'm like, no, he's not. I also know that our values create our insecurities. So I'm insecure around not knowing enough. That's what forces me to learn. Why would I learn if I don't feel insecure around that I don't have enough knowledge. Why would I sit there and read a book for four days or five days when I don't have an insecurity that I'm not smart enough or I don't know enough, Right? I'm dedicating that time for a reason. Because I'm trying to compensate. So our values create compensations. Me going and training in the gym. Why? Because I'm insecure about my look. I'm insecure about how I feel about myself. But if I bring that back into balance, I go, cool. I go to the gym because I love training, I love exercising, and it makes me to feel better about myself because I don't want that insecurity to start to become too far out of balance. But by exercising it brings it back in balance. And so every day I'm just keeping it back in balance. So by learning a little bit every day, by coaching, teaching, I bring, I bring it back into balance by exercising, I bring it back into balance by connecting, communicating. As a kid, I used to really worry about what people think. Now I still do, but I do it through connecting with people like this. So if I connect with people, I feel like I'm more part of something, which is an insecurity that I have. So I love connecting with people. I also love making money and building a business because it's an insecurity. I grew up, my mum had me when she was 17 years of age. I played basketball in the most cheapest shoes that my mum could buy from Kmart. I got my first job when I was 13. So that. And the first thing that I bought was basketball shoes because I used to get picked on for being the poor kid. I used to get called POV for poverty. Right now that's why I have a value on wealth creation now, right. And, and financial abundance and stuff like that. Because I don't, I don't want to feel trapped. But if, if I live my values, each day it keeps me in balance. If I don't live my values, it pulls us as humans out of balance and then we try to overcompensate with things. Does that make sense?

Yeah, the values are like the decision making blueprint, essentially.

I don't know if I've answered any questions today effectively, but I've essentially given people a lot to think about. I think.

Yeah, just a complete masterclass is like take you fucking weeks to integrate all this. You've broken some identities on this podcast, mate. How are you for time? I know you're gonna jump off in a second. How are you? How are we for time?

Yeah, actually I'm still good. I've got another. Got another 15 minutes. Cool.

I want to ask you a question around because identity is clearly something that is the core of all of this. Having a vision or a goal or direction, something that's pulling you forward and then the day to day decision making that's shaping you into being that person that can receive or align with this future vision. And I wonder because I think about this a lot as well or I ponder or try to embody this, which is like, who do I need to become? What type of identity do I need to step into that aligns with this future vision? And I wonder, if you do this, do you consciously program in a new identity that lines with a future version of yourself? Or are you just making the right decisions moment to moment, and trying to neutralize the positive and negative with the surrendered trust that you're evolving into exactly who you need to be and you don't need to control that? Does that make sense?

Yeah, that's a wicked question. I've never been asked that on a podcast. Look, I don't have an answer right. I think every human being on the planet is trying to figure it out. Now, based on studies in cosmology, there's a theory, and it's a theory, and it's called the Big Bang theory. And that theory is, is that there was just this zero point or this point where everything became so compressed and dense that. Well, actually, I'm probably even misinterpreting it again. I'm going to get a cosmologist that's going to reach out to me or an astrophysicist and they're going to like, try and spank me for this. But essentially the Big Bang theory, I think, is an incomplete theory. And the reason why is because there's a law of thermodynamics that says that energy can't be lost or destroyed, it can only change form. I personally, and I think even Hawking, before he passed away, started believing this. And, and there's been a lot of great thinkers and philosophers who believe this. I believe the universe is infinite, and I believe that it is. There's an infinite amount of time and there's an infinite amount of space. It's just that as humans, we have perceptions, and those perceptions, in order to understand, like what hot is, you have to understand cold. So I can't label something as hot unless I have a scale in my brain that has hot, ultimate hot, and ultimate cold. And then somewhere I'm labeling it. So all of our labels are essentially a definition for a scale. So if someone says, you know, that person's good looking or how good looking, today was a shitty day. Well, how shit was it compared to what? So humans have to have these comparatives and we've got to have absolutes in order to create a scale. When people talk about an infinite, an infinity or an infinite, just think about an infinite space that has no time. It goes on forever with no end and no start. The human brain boggles. And there were two famous scientists, two famous mathematicians who tried to figure out what infinity was. And what they did was they actually figured it out. And then that what they realized was that their equation was part of a scale, and that scale had the Next level, infinity. So then they wanted to figure out the scale and how many infinities there were within infinity. One committed suicide and the other one ended up in a mental institution because the human brain can't comprehend it because our senses have to have absolutes. So it's actually our senses that fuck us up. Now coming back to your question about that, I personally believe that humans are just on a journey to figure out, right? And information is the only thing that, that I believe evolves. So our job as humans is essentially to evolve by finding truths in the mistruths. Now in order to do that, if you look at the word love, the love is a balance point in symmetry. Like the Greeks had a. If you read Greek philosophy, they say that everything, everything in nature has beauty, symmetry and proportion. And that's what they labeled as beauty. Now when you look at symmetry, it's balance. Everything in nature has to be balanced. Symmetry is balance and proportion is balance. So when we look at the word love and inspiration and gratitude and presence, which are words that often get thrown around the times that we have, those things are normally in enlightened moments, you, I don't have, I'm not inspired. Like when someone says, oh, you seem like you're inspired. I'm not inspired. I have moments of inspiration. I have moments of gratitude. I am not grateful. I have moments of gratitude. I have moments of peace inside my own mind. I don't have a peaceful mind. And I just want to break a delusion that some people have. I worked with a guy years ago, I was doing a speaking gig and he's a spiritual guru supposedly, which a lot of those I find very see through after, you know, what I know about human behavior is up on stage and he's talking really slow about being, you know, having peace and love and harmony and everyone getting along and living in non judgment. Humans cannot not judge if you have mental capacity because judgment essentially is a separation. I can't tell the difference between you and Amanda if I don't judge you both. So I have to judge. What most people try to avoid are critical judgment because it creates pain for them. But the reason why it creates pain is because they're at extremes. So if I say you're a bad person, that's an extreme point of view. If I say, hey, you have things that you do that I would probably not agree with, which I would label as bad, and you have things that you do which are probably good things which I would label as being good. Tell me if I'm inaccurate. If that's true, right? So there's a truth in there. Just like if someone comes to me and says, you know, I don't want to start a business, I get that it's going to be hard. There are times where it's going to be a struggle, but there are other times as well where it's really rewarding. You go, okay, cool. There's probably some truth in that. Whereas when someone comes along, they go, I'm going to start a business so I can do what I want, when I want, how I want. I can have absolute freedom, and I can make all this money. I'm like, man, you're on crack, right? Because you're at extremes. That's. You're going to learn a lesson the hard way because that pendulum is going to swing back the other way, and you're going to get absolutely punished for those thoughts. So adding at. At extremes. Humans like extremes because it allows us to define things through our senses. But true intelligence and wisdom comes from knowing that both are there. Okay? So, you know, I know that everything in life has some sort of balance and symmetry. Now, an enlightened moment is those points in time where you have a realization where you realize that the thing that you thought was bad is just as good as it is bad. And they are both. That's a center point to a scale. And in that moment, you get wisdom, you get enlightenment, you get love, and you get gratitude, because it's saying, here's a piece of the jigsaw puzzle in life. Thank you for figuring this out. And so you have a point of enlightenment. It goes into the super consciousness, so it sticks in there forever. It's. It's in there now. And now you've got wisdom as a human, and it allows the brain to calm down, and you live in less extremes. So people who are wise tend to be less extreme. I was listening to Elon Musk's conversation with Joe Rogan, and I pick up things like, you know, he said part of the reason why he bought Twitter is because it was run by extreme lefts. And he said, look, there are people who are left. There are people who are right. But that doesn't mean that you're extreme. People get labeled as extreme once you move to a certain position or have a certain viewpoint, someone with an extreme. And he said, I had to buy Twitter for the sake of humanity, because I wanted people to express their views, and people should be able to express their views on both left and right. You know, what's both right and wrong? Because as humanity we need to have a difference in ideas and who, who says what's right and wrong. Now he gets criticized a lot for having views like that because people go, no, well, that's wrong. You should not be allowed to advocate these things. But what he's saying is that society needs them. Do you know, sorry, I've been going way off track, but I just, I was watching something on Netflix. There's the, there's a documentary about. And I can't remember the name of the hip hop group. It's. I, I know it, but it's off the top of my head. But they're an Australian hip hop group that essentially came from the western suburbs of Sydney and which is quite rough or can be quite rough around the area. But these kids were pretty, you know, off the rails and they got themselves together and started creating music. Now, because of them talking about the violence in the area and the violence that they grew up with and, and the gang affiliation and stuff like that, the police essentially came in and said, you cannot play music. But that was actually the thing that made them, made the hood come together, right? So it created this unity. It actually made kids in the street say, we can have a better future than crime. They saw that you can go from crime to now traveling the world and touring. And then the police came in and the police essentially extorted them and said, if you play your music, we will shut everything down. And they stopped them from touring, they stopped them from traveling. They would threaten them. There were times where the police would come in at a live event and just say, if you play today, we'll arrest you. And they'd go, fuck you, we're going to play. And then they just arrest them. When you have a look at that, they're essentially using bullying, manipulation, extortion, all of those things. Now, my best mate that I grew up with got involved in illegal activity and he said to me, there are two types of criminals in the world. There's the criminals and the police. And he said, the police do just as much legal as what criminals do. Now it's interesting that the police can use criminal, like extortion methods, manipulation tactics, bribery and all that sort of stuff to get someone to do what they want in, you know, the sake of doing the right thing. But they're essentially two sides of the same polarity. Right now there are some cops out there would say, yeah, but that's different because blah, blah. Now there are police who are more balanced, but there's also extremes of police, just like there is extremes of crime. You know, like if someone. If someone added an extra Coca Cola on my bill at a restaurant and I forgot to pay for it, you know, it's not a major crime, right? But there's probably shit that we've all done that's probably a little bit illegal. You know, sometimes I give a little bit of a squirt on the accelerator in the car, and now I've just done something illegal. Is it a crime? Should I go to jail for. Probably not. It's the intention behind it. But that's like the police who are doing the right thing and, you know, push a little bit, just. But there's also extremes. So my answer to your question coming back to it was like, I believe that everything in the universe is seen through our eyes and through our experiences in different scales of extremes. You know, you'll see good, you'll see bad, you'll see right, you'll see wrong, but all of it is guiding you to figure it out. And then if you look at Vanaski, where he spoke about the newosphere and that there are these levels of the newer spheres, I think that when you figure it out, you just get more shit to figure out. So if you have a look at Elon Musk, he's still trying to figure it out, but he's figuring it out a level that most people may never get to in a lifetime, okay? Because he's a genius. But that's also extremely frustrating, okay? I get frustrated sometimes because the things that I see in the world that I'm trying to help, I can't always help. And there are a lot of people out there who go, oh, you're thinking, shit, Mojo, you don't understand, blah, blah, blah. But you don't understand my situation. I see straight through through that because that person might be at grade three and maybe I'm at grade 15. I can see through it. They can't see through it. So they think that I'm the idiot that's challenging, right? I try to do the right thing, and I get attacked on social media. You know, I've had people that I've helped before that are suicidal and the methods that I use to help them stop them from killing themselves. But when I talk about them, sometimes people like, well, that's irresponsible. That's what I'm like, hang on, the motherfucker's alive. Yeah, but that's the wrong thing. And I'm like, right, so the system that you use kills more people. But because it's common and it's acceptable. That's the right thing. Are you stupid? Right. That same thing happens in the medical industry, right? Where people go, yeah, but medicine's the right thing and the doctors are the smart ones. Maybe, but there is a lot of people who die from stuff like opioids and all those types of things. You know, the pandemic. Have a look at what happened there. Like, it was just an absolute cluster of stupidity on both sides. Okay? So coming back to answer your question, I. I don't know that anyone has an answer. I don't know. What I do know is that if. The more what. What I'm 100% sure about is the more you work on yourself and the more that you learn, the more you discover. So the more you learn, the more you discover, the more you work on yourself, the more you find truth, which then means the wiser you become. The wiser you become, the less volatile and erratic you become. But you see the world as being more erratic and volatile because you're more balanced. So everything is a dichotomy. It has both good and bads. Like, I see the way that I live as being an awesome way that I live, but other people see it as being just like, why. Why would you not go out and party all the time? You know, you've got all this money. Why would you not. Why would you not go and just have this crazy lifestyle? Well, because it's not the lifestyle that I actually enjoy anymore. I used to. I used to think that. I used to think that when I made my first million, I'd be, like, partying and running a mark and, you know, there'd be hot chicks and boats and all that sort of stuff. And now I look at all that stuff and I can't even be drinking anymore. Like, I just don't. I don't enjoy it. I feel I lack confidence when I drink. I'm more confident when I don't drink, right? And then I don't enjoy being around people who drink too much because I. You sit there and you look at them and you're like, dude, you're a mess. The shit that is coming out of your mouth is just gibberish. Like, I'm wasting time here. So I would rather not do that. I'd rather go out to lunch with some friends. I would rather have intelligent conversations like this. I would rather be helping people. I'd rather be doing cool and staying on my path. But that wasn't what I thought it would be when. When I got here. Now that I'm Here it's completely different. That's because I'm a completely different person in different levels. So, you know, I don't. I don't have an answer to your question. What I do know is that every day you're getting little gifts that are sprinkled in front of you through both pain and through both wisdom and also pleasure. I think pleasure gets sprinkled in front of us as a distraction. You ever seen the Matrix?

Yeah, yeah, of course.

The woman in the red dress, right? So the more you achieve, the hotter the woman in the red dress becomes. And so the more money you make, the more options there are to just get out of control in life and to do stupid shit and all that stuff. But that's the woman in the red dress. That's. It's trying to pull you off your path. On the other hand, you've got the negativity and all that stuff, and that's trying to pull you off your path. The only thing that's really there is your inner certainty and inner knowing, and that sort of comes from you just sort of figuring it out as you go along. So. Yeah, man.

Wow. Yeah. What I took from that is. And we're going to wrap this up in a sec, but this has just been a, like, super enlightening conversation. Like, damn, brother. The duality of life is really what creates this constant mental battle. And if you're trying to figure it out, you'll always be disappointed because it can't be figured it out on this mental plane. There is. There is. And what I understand from you and the people who are able to navigate this, like, this chaos that we're in is the understanding that none of it matters and all of it matters. Like, you've connected with the part of you that's non dual, the oneness, the neutrality of the universe. And I think until an individual studies and ponders and reflects on that, on the two eyes or the two selves, the capital S self and the small S self. And when you learn to dance between the two, I think that's when you start to find a bit more joy and fun. And you helped me really realize that when things are going bad, are they really. Maybe it's actually going good and you just got the wrong glasses on. So, bro, I just want to thank you again for everything that you've passed on to me and passed on to everyone listening to this podcast. I wanted to share something that you mentioned at the start where you don't know what success means. And the other day I read a Quote by, I think it was Einstein or Newton in a co working space. I walked past it and said, don't strive to become a man of success, strive to become a man of value.

Love it.

And I feel that's exactly what you are doing. You don't need to define the success. You're just being of value to the world. And thank you.

My pleasure.

Appreciate you.

Look, I don't, I don't even know that I'm of value to the world. I just know that I'm of value in someone's world and that's the thing that matters to me. Right. Like, you know, I, I assume that you're, you're the people who are listening to this and the people who on here are people who probably want to learn and grow and they have inquisitive minds and, you know, they're searching for answers, as am I, Right. Like, I used to think that I would get there, but I think again, that's a woman in the red dress. There is no getting there. So what I do is I wake up every day and I'm like, right, if I can clarify the actions that I need to take today that are just helping me to move forward, I'm more focused on the forward progression than I am to there because I don't think that there's a there. And I think the fun, like if you think about a road trip with your mates, all the fun happens on the road trip, right? It doesn't happen when you get to the destination. Like, you might get there and you're like, yay, this is awesome. But the that you're going to talk about is the drive. That's where all the crazy happens, right? That's where the stories happen. So my life is just the drive. I just want to keep it as the drive because that's where all the fun happens. Okay? And I think too many people attach themselves to a goal. Like when I get there, how many times in all honesty have you gotten, gotten it or achieved a goal? And it's never as good as what you thought it was, right? It's good for a day, but then you're like, right, what's next? And if you look at dopamine, you know, dopamine used to be called the pleasure hormone. Now what they realize is, is it's the pursuit hormone. So actually feel better in pursuit of things than we do, actually the achievement of things. So I just keep myself in the pursuit. Like I'm just chasing it. I'm going after it every day. That's that's where the fun is.

Love the chase, love the pursuit. Yeah, man, that's so awesome. Michael, where can people learn more about what you're up to if they got some insight from today? Where can they continue this conversation or connect with you?

Yeah, so if you just saw, if you go to Google, type in Michael Mojo or any of the, you know, any, any search platform, you'll find me. It'll pop up with all my stuff. Probably pop up with some bad stuff as well on there. But you look, you'll find Michael Mojo if you just search on, on, on any of the, any of the social media platforms, you'll find me. I think all of my platforms apart from Facebook still being an. And won't, won't, won't let me get a blue tick on my, on my business profile on there. But everything else will have blue ticks. Our website is the mojomaster.com. but that's about to change because we're just about to launch a new hub and a new like weekly subscription product where, you know, I dropped content and stuff in there every week for people to consistently grow. I've also got a podcast as well called the Underestimated Entrepreneur. So I normally drop an episode most days of the week, if not five days a week. And it's just a little spruce up every morning that people can listen to to get their together and go hard today. So. Yeah, but you know, also people can reach out as well. Like if anyone's got any questions or anyone has any feedback or even if people just want to tell me to go myself, just you can shoot me a message on, on any of the social media platforms.

Phenomenal, man. And you should have a book out at some point, I swear. Like, when's the books happening?

I've actually, funny enough, I get asked this regularly. I've written about five and they're about 90 done. And I don't know if it's just that I, I keep distracting myself and, and making myself do other so that I don't have to release a book so I don't have to deal with the judgment of it or I don't know if it's one of those things like a musician where you know that it can always be better so you just keep working on it and never gets there. I'm not 100% sure, but yeah, I think I, I'm, I'm pretty sure we'll have one in the next 12 months.

Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, I can't wait, bro. And yeah, thanks again for coming on and Yeah. I highly encourage everyone to check out the podcast and all the other stuff that you're releasing to the world because it's. It's exceptional. Thanks again. And until next time, we'll have to do a round two in person, I think.

Oh, I would love a round two. That'd be awesome. Yeah. Thanks, mate. Appreciate it.

Thanks, brother. Ciao. Proper. Mind blowing, right? I hope you enjoyed the conversation today with Mojo, absolute legend and absolute channel. And if you got some value from the conversation today, please share this with someone. I'm sure there's someone that you know that would get a ton of value of hearing this, this dialogue, this master class, and subscribe again. If you haven't yet, please subscribe. I really want to make sure that you're updated when I keep sharing more of this, these kinds of conversations, and I would love to connect with you. So if you want to reach out and continue the conversation, DM me on Instagram jordancan. Other than that, have a great day or evening, wherever you are. I appreciate you so much. Peace and love and we'll talk soon. Ciao.