SSP139: From Burning Man to Austin: A deep dive with Sam Gibbs Morris

Hey, what's going on, guys? It's Jordan Kanlis here, speaker, coach and founder of State Shifters. And you're listening to the State Shifters podcast, a show designed to help conscious achievers master their internal state and break free from the limiting patterns that are keeping them stuck. So you can live a life of passion, purpose and freedom. And on this podcast, you're going to receive everything you need to evolve physically, emotionally, spiritually. And you're going to be getting the tools, the strategies, the live coaching interviews, all, all from conscious creators who are also living their purpose and leaving their mark on the world. And really, it's my belief that we're all capable of greatness. And once we have the courage to own our pain and learn the lessons from our past, we can create a future built around our purpose. And my intention with this show is to really give you the resources you need to help to tap into your unique soul mission and really live life from a beautiful state of being.

So with that being said, if you.

Want more tools, resources or guidance in your journey, head on over to stateshifters.com if you want to join my free Facebook community, you can click the link in the show description. And if you're interested in getting help from me or some mentoring, if you want to accelerate your evolution and move beyond these limiting patterns that are holding you back, feel free to drop me an email jordanstateshifters.com or you can head on over to the website state shifters.com work with me and we can tear up a call. So without further ado, guys, enjoy today's episode. I'd love for you to just kind of introduce yourself to my community or whoever's listening and tell us, tell us a bit more about what you do in the world, bro, because it's fucking interesting.

Yeah, thanks, man. I do a few. I do. It's funny that when I tell people what I do, that, my God, you do so much. And for me, it's like, it's one thing, I help men, I help men become better men show up for their women. This is using breathwork, using psychedelics, doing private retreats, doing full on five day men's retreats, like group work. It really is about cultivating that sacred masculine energy, that presence inside of us that when we, that we can show up unwaveringly for the women in our lives, for the feminine, which is essentially the feminine, is the life force of the planet. So if you're, if you can't show up for the woman in front of you, you're not actually showing up for the entirety of life. And so when you can get right. Have right relationship with all the things in your life, you have extra bandwidth, you have extra presence, you have extra connection, you can get deeper into intimacy. The sex is better. Like, literally the way you penetrate the world is with that sacred masculine essence and energy which is safe, which is conscious, which is aware.

Yes, sir.

Yes, let's go.

Well, that's why we vibed. I feel we're kind of in a similar domain in terms of the impact that we're trying to have on the world. And then people who are obviously listening to this podcast and people have been following me, like, know that, you know, men's work, intimacy, relationships have been a big pillar of the things that I share because it's. It's so a lot of guys struggle. Like, a lot of guys struggle. I actually get a lot of women that hit me up saying, hey, I sent my. My boyfriend or my husband your way, and stuff like that. So we're going to have some fun today in the convo.

Yeah, I think it's funny to, like, the evolution of it. I think. I mean, landing where we've landed. Like, I've been through so many iterations of, like, what I do and who I help. It's like, it's finally like landing six or seven years later after more like 10 years, starting with personal training and ending here is like, to see the evolution of it, of, like, filtering through what. What hits, what doesn't, what helps, what doesn't is so powerful to be like, nah, this is it. And this. This is like, this is where. This is the lane I belong in, and I was always meant to be in.

I feel that, too. Yeah, I went through a similar process, you know, with. With. I think it's just clarifying yourself, and more you. More you start to clarify yourself, the more you realize what it is that's trying to be expressed through you. And I'd love to know a little bit more about that evolution for you personally, man, because there's a lot of pain and suffering that usually goes down on these journeys. And, yeah, I'd love to hear more about the lessons that have come out of that.

Yeah, I love that you said pain, because just recently, I've recognized that the biggest block for men is their relationship to the pain. Like, we as men carry a different pain than women do. Women, there's no question that they have been oppressed and suppressed by the masculine and patriarchy and all this stuff. Like, it's been a rough Go. But men carry a different kind of pain. Like a real deep level of rejection is a big one for men. I think that men carry a lot more rejection pain than women do. And not to say they don't, but men, you know, in society, in culture, men have been the ones to go out and get, go out and get food or go out and ask the woman to the dance. Like, you know, I mean, there's actually a sock hop is a dance where the woman actually asks the man and, or the. And so it's, it's a different switching it up because normally it's the men going to ask, making the first move. So we have a lot more space for rejection than women do. And I think a lot of men, whether they admit it or not, they have a deep fucking fear of rejection. I'm not good enough. Oh, that woman that I put my eye on didn't like me and rejected me. I'm a piece of shit. I'm a loser. And it's this deep rooted fear of like feeling that pain that we carry around as men. And so in my. And I know this because I've experienced it growing up there was. I was very different than my peers in the sense that physically severe asthma, severe food allergies. I had this tendency to choke on my food a lot. So I have. I experienced esophageal spasms. So normally the esophagus would massage the food down into your belly. For me, it kind of people can't see, but the esophagus doesn't work in coherence, so it's contracting, not massaging. And so literally pieces of rice would get stuck in my throat and I would be choking. I'd have to have thyme done. And so this created this massive dissonance between me and my peers. And it created a lot of shyness in me. A lot of shyness to the point of withdrawing, of isolation where I would pretend I was sick so I wouldn't have to go to birthday parties. Avoiding all these social interactions where I felt either threatened or different. And just like the spotlight was on me, all of this. Basically I felt rejected by the world. I learned that I couldn't trust my body and I couldn't trust the people around me. And my parents, there was no abuse, physical, sexual, verbal, anything. They did the best they could. But like the experience I was having, I mean, there's really no human way to make that, to pacify that. When you think like, oh, is this next breath gonna be my last one? When you're Having an asthma attack or if you eat a peanut and you're like, oh, my God, my throat's closing up, like, I'm gonna die right now. There's no way that a mom or dad can be like, I love you. It's gonna be okay in that body. It is not gonna be okay. And so having those experiences growing up created a lot of fight or flight in me, a lot of survival mode, you know, especially, essentially, I spent the first 15 years of my life in survival mode, just always thinking about, wondering where the threats are coming from. And so the way that I found this out was after 15 years of pretty. Pretty deep addiction. I was, you know, from ages. I would say from age 20, 22, 23 till age 38, I was pretty much in the throes of severe alcohol addiction, cocaine addiction, you know, people. What was your favorite drug? Whatever you got, you know, and so that. That looked like a failed marriage or not failed marriage. It looked like a divorce. The marriage didn't work out. It looked like a lot of careers, a lot of jobs that didn't work out. It looked like going to jail. 20. I think it's like 20, 23 or 24 times.

I remember you telling me that. Holy shit. Damn.

I mean, it wasn't like I was, you know, years at a time. It was three nights, two nights, one night, eight nights, one time. I mean, but still, it was repetitively, like, just getting in trouble with the law for drunk in public, disorderly conduct, dui, whatever. It was six trips to rehab. And so eventually, when it came time to. When I decided, like, this is it. I have to go. I've got to change my behavior. After these 15 years. I was 38 years old, living in North Carolina. It was 4 in the morning. November 21st was the day. And I just sitting there, and I just was like, this has got to change. Like, I. Like, it was all that pain that I had experienced for the past 15 years. And like a literal movie strip of the wreckage of relationships, of jobs, of the family, of my mom's face, my dad's face, my sister crying to me, please stop. Like, all this stuff was, like, right in front of me. And I had been up for four days partying. And so at that moment, I said, this has got to change. And when I went with that commitment, I went in and I. So I'd been in and out of AA and rehabs and, like, seeing these people around me that had these awful childhoods, you know, awful childhoods of a lot of abuse, a lot of Alcoholic homes. A lot of anger in the homes, like, a lot of just abandonment and rejection, which I had, but it was different. And so I'm sitting there thinking, like, what got me here? I'm here in the same place with these people that have experienced this terrible alcoholic childhood. Physical abuse, verbal abuse, sexual abuse. And. And I had a childhood where in my home, like, for up until this point. If you had asked me, I would have said my childhood was great. I played tennis and golf every summer. I go skiing every winter. Didn't really want for much. We went on trips. There's love in the house. A lot of parties, birthday parties were great. There wasn't a lot of things I could point to that would say, you're going to be an alcoholic because of emotional damage. And so I was like, well, what is actually going on? So that's when I realized I looked a layer deep into my childhood and realized, like, okay, that external experience was happening. Maybe my sister was getting that experience, but I was having the experience of constantly being under threat, constantly bullying people, making fun of me for the way I breathe. So shame has been a big part of my story. And shame. What I've learned is that shame starts when we are trying to get a basic need met, or a basic need is trying to get met, and we feel rejection or embarrassment around it, humiliation around it. So for me, that was breathing. Like, I would be having an asthma attack in school, and the kids would look at me and start pretending they were having asthma attacks to, like, ha, ha ha, you're having an asthma attack. And, like, make these breathing noises. And so I'm trying to breathe basic human need, and I'm getting humiliated for it. And so understanding that that level of shame was carried with me through all through, and that's what fueled my addiction, you know, feeling that shame of like, oh, God, if I have an asthma attack or if I stand out, I'm gonna. I'm gonna be made fun of again, and I'm gonna feel rejected and I'm gonna feel humiliated, and that's really painful. And so drinking, you know, I shifted into life of the party up in the bar, dancing, talking to women, telling jokes, like, all the things. And it got really out of control because it was such a. Such a massive relief for me to feel that way that then I wanted to feel that way all the time. And so once I got sober, it was looking at, like, you know, first things like depression. I was. That was a big one for me. Social anxiety. So feeling so different from all my peers. Made me in social situations feel very, very uncomfortable. And so I handled those two things at first. And then once those big ones came, they kind of dissipated and handled those. Then it was the shame and this deep level of pain that I felt. And then looking at it like I came into the world with asthma and food allergies and these esophageal spasms. And so is that really mine? Going deep into psychedelics and saying, asking where it came from, Because I came in with that. It was just in my body from past lives, from epigenetics, from whatever it was. And so, yeah, it was a lot of deep looking past, like this surface level stuff like this, seeing what was actually there and what was actually happening to understand myself and why I was showing up the way I was.

Damn, bro. That's a deep journey.

I forgot there's two suicide attempts in there.

Oh, shit.

So one suicide attempt, and these are subconscious suicide attempts? 1. When I was like 8 or 9 years old, I was playing little league baseball and I had the worst asthma attack I've ever had in my life. Where I basically, I died. It was a near death experience. I decided at that moment, this is through plant medicine. I've learned this. But I decided, my body and my soul decided in that moment. We were done feeling so different, so picked on, so bullied, so shameful that, like, we're out, this is too much. And I mean, I woke up in a tent the next day in the hospital, had no idea how I got there, and my lungs basically stopped working. And then in 2009, after a full day of drinking and at a football game, I jumped off the second story of a balcony at a bar, 35ft, and landed on the pavement down below. That was my second suicide attempt. Again, same thing. Like, feeling this. It was like, you know, I was 10 years into this addiction at this point, or 12 years in, and it was like, I'm just so. I don't see a way out of this. I don't see a way out of this shame, this hurt that I've caused everybody else. This is it. I'm gone. And I never. And I never knew what happened that night until a deep, deep ayahuasca trip.

Man. I know, I know a lot of. A lot of people may feel stuck in some sort of addiction or have been stuck in some sort of addiction. And even just you sharing your story, you know, it gives permission for a lot of people to feel seen, to know that, like, hey, you can get out of this. And Eckhart Tolle Says any addiction is an unconscious refusal to. To be with your own pain. Right. And it's. It's so true. But what determined the readiness for you to want to go into the pain? Just that, like, you were done with the suffering and.

Yeah.

How bad does it need to get for someone to be like, okay, it's. This is it. Like, I'm ready to go in there. Because for a lot of people, they just.

They just.

The suffering is not bad enough yet. You know what I mean? Like, it's who and who decides that?

These are great questions. I think I'll speak from the man's perspective. Men in particular. I think humans really. Pain is the greatest catalyst that we have. It's the greatest motivator for change that we have. And I think with men, I think that's a little bit more. Because we have the stuff you're feeling hide your pain. Women are more, over time, have been more readily accessible. Like, it's okay for them to talk about their feelings and share their pain. And they have. Women have been getting together in circles for way long, way, long time in talking about these things, whereas men, it's. We don't have that. So I think it takes a little bit more pain for us to do stuff. And I tell everybody, like, it doesn't have to get to the point where you're trying to commit suicide or even going to rehab or going to jail. I mean, these things are like physical illness, cancer, whatever it is. Like, it doesn't have to get to that point. The decision gets. But that. That's the problem is that it's so tough to recognize, oh, is this really that bad? Because we can justify or smooth over so much. And with that comes the it's okay, but it's not great, but it's okay. It's not great, but it's. I'm not suffering enough. And then I always say, I feel good enough. Like, feeling good enough or being good enough is not enough if you're like. And this specifically speaks to, like, if you're feeling okay, I'm good, like, making it through. But I'm, you know, lethargic and maybe a little out of shape, and I can't find motivation. Like, it's not killing you. It's not wrecking your marriage. And it's not. You still have a job. And, like, all the things that we say, like, make it okay. It takes a real glance in a real. Not even glance, a real, like, looking in to say, is this how I want to finish this job? Is this how I want to finish this thing. Is this how I want to see this thing all the way through, really? Because it's you. You get in a bad job or a bad marriage or just in a bad way with yourself, like, you blink your eyes, five years later, you're still there for sure. You know, like, how many times have I. I've taken jobs in my life, been like, oh, it's a good. Good for now, and then two years later, like, paycheck's decent, allows me to go out and do my things. But it's also like. It's like office space. I'm sitting there under fluorescent lights, clicking a screen. Like, it's just not how I've choose to be. And so we get to understand that if we're feeling just good enough. That's the point when you get to look like, this is good. Like, how you doing? I'm good. Are you, like, what? Are you okay with that? And that's the point. That's the tipping point where. Because if that good will be good for it could be forever, and it could be like this nice little happy existence, that good could turn bad real quick.

Okay, yeah, I agree. I fucking agree. And it's a waste of potential. It's a waste of light that's trying to come through. And I remember I felt that at my corporate job. I was like, this is a good life, but it's not the best. And it got me angry. I was like, there's no way I could settle for this for the rest of my life. And I. I hear or what I want to. I'm curious to know what you think the path is. If you know that a man is listening to this, even a woman is listening to this, going, yeah, like, I'm good, but I know there's so much more in me that's trying to come out. Where does one start? Like, where do you think one starts if they want to go from good to exceptional or, like, next level?

Like, yeah. I mean, I think for one, it's like, I think looking at or looking back at all those times you sold yourself out a case, like, said no when you wanted to say yes. Like, this job is like, it's good, right? But, like, I had this. I had an opportunity to go to Bali or go skydiving, and I said no. Where are you saying no to things in your life that are actually things you want to do because you think you don't deserve them, or that's, oh, that's great for them, but it's not, you know, not for me, like, living abroad or, like, going nomadic or whatever these, like, callings of your soul are. Look at all the ways you're not listening to that. You know, like, you have a vision. You have a vision board. How many of those things you checked off? None. Great time to start. You know, like, it's. It's really looking at where you've betrayed yourself in the past. Because time is. It moves fucking fast. I mean, ridiculously fast. And we know this, but we never think about it. We know how fast time moves. Like, every year, you're like, oh, my God, it's already October. And you're like, yeah, that happens every year. Like, how many times are you gonna get through a year and be like, it's already October, and I didn't do shit I was gonna say I was gonna do in January. You know? How many? Like, now look at your Life. You're already 35, right? How many. How many. How much shit did you say you were gonna do at 30 that you haven't done yet? Look at these things. So this good life. Is this good life really providing the space for you to be that. To be that person, to be that man, to be that woman, to live that life? Or is it just a nice, happy existence?

Yeah. Or the comfort blanket so you don't have to confront the stuff that would come up if you go in pursuit of the life that is exceptional.

Because now you get into, like, this ego thing. The ego loves that good little corporate life. That ego's like, this is good. Safe. We're good. We don't retract. And we drive to home and to work every day. We have kids. Like, that's good. But then there's, like, that higher calling.

That's it. And. And that back to the journey of, like, unlocking more of what it means to be a fully expressed man or just individual. It's. It's that it's going in pursuit of the things that are calling to you. And in the journey, you just start to discover and unlock and let go of all the stuff that's not you. And you just start to emerge as a more full expression.

Yeah.

And then the journey continues, you know?

Yeah. Because none of the things that you want to do are about the things you want to do.

Yes.

They're about who you have to become, to do, to be, to vibr up to those things. So there's a great question I was asked, actually, not this year, but the year before at Burning Man. John Weiland. We were in a group, and John asked This question, he said, this is how I phrase it now. He's phrased it a little differently, but this is what I ask all my clients. Who do you get to be and what do you get to do from this moment forward so that when you die, you die complete? Because if you exist on that, saying no to yourself and say no to your dreams and your soul's callings, you're not gonna die complete. You're not gonna. Then, like, it's like, who do I get to be that I see this thing all the way fucking through? Finish the job.

Fuck, man. Yeah, this is. These are important conversations.

Totally.

Because if you. If you don't zoom out far enough and go, if you were to die tomorrow, would you feel complete? You know, would you be okay with that?

Yeah.

And if you can't confidently answer, yep, you know, if it's my times tomorrow, I'm totally okay with that. Then something needs to shift, and I think that's up to the individual to get really, like, clear on, like, hey, so I needed. I need to shift something.

Yeah. Where you leak in energy.

Yeah.

We're wasting time.

Exactly. And you work on. On many layers, bro, which is so amazing. Like, you. It's how you work with people is so, so special. You know, you do the men's work, you work on the coaching level again. And this is why having a coach is so valuable.

Right.

If you. If you don't know where to start, you don't know how to now get the accountability to go in pursuit of that life is. That's what coaches are for. Is like having to kick up your ass to be like, let's go, man. It's time. But you also work on the deeper, energetic layers. You know, the past lives, the. The stuff that sometimes you can only get to through, say, plant medicine work or deep breath work.

Yeah.

And you work with bufo, which is the. You know, the toad medicine, which, for me, it's had a big impact on my life for the last three, four years.

Yeah, it will.

Yeah. Tell me how. Why. Why bufo? Why did that choose you? And then how do you now incorporate that into your work?

So it shows me, in end of 2020, I smoked it for the first time, and it was a small, meditative dose. And then I did the full, full blast off dose maybe like two months later. Two months later. And it was in that moment of smoking it and having that experience, the first thing I remember coming out of it was that is the healing that I've needed every day since the day I was born. So what that means is that I tapped into the past lives and I healed the 50, the seven generations back. Seven. Seven generations of me. Seven generations of my soul were healed going back and because it literally lifted all of the fight inside of me. And I wasn't. I've never been a belligerent person. Never like been into fight fights or like, no, not me. I wasn't fighting anything, but I was fighting life inside. I was fighting my experience of it and just thinking, always being broken, always being fixed, always needed to be fixed, always needed to heal all these things. In that moment when I realized, holy shit, I feel this level of freedom that I've never felt immediately was like, okay, so every man that I meet, I now get to bring this to. It was kind of like the medicine. I shook hands like, yeah, this is your medicine. And so I smoked it quite a bit for the first, like six months. I found myself in places where bufo was and bufo found me. And so it was this like six months of initiation into serving, and I ended up moving to Mexico. That was in December. And then in January, I moved to Mexico. And it turns out that the shaman that trained my mentors actually lived like 20 minutes from where I was in Mexico. So I started working under him when I was living in Mexico. So, like, these like, everything kind of aligned and I just. It was one of those things I knew right away that bufo was like, this is my medicine to carry and bring to the first of all, bring to the, like the guys I work with. But it's turned into bringing to couples, to groups, to women. Like, it just like, I feel like every human really gets to smoke bufo because it will change. It will shift the collective consciousness of everybody.

I agree. I agree. I've done it a few times and it is. There is nothing else like it in terms of what it can do to just obliterating any of that fear or fight energy that is stored not just in the nervous system or the fascia, but on some sort of spiritual soul layer, which I don't know much other medicine that can do that.

I think that what it does is mimics a near death experience. So you talk, you've like, they've done science research on people who've had near death experiences. And they. They approach life in a very different way. Like an actual. Like, I'm about to die. And I had many of those growing up. And so bufo, what it does is so when you know you're about to die, like right before you pass Your body floods with dmt. And so you get that. You get the experience of oneness, of source, of God. It's where you return, is where our souls return to. It's our souls returning home. And so when you smoke bufo, you have that experience without actually dying, and you come back to life and it can't be the same. That was another. When I spoke that meditative dose in Sedona, the first thing I thought was, okay, so life will never be the same. It was. And I've done other plant medicines, like, a lot. And that was the one that got me to the point where, okay, so life will never be the same. Like, the things I just experienced and saw and felt have forever changed me.

And then how do you. Because you do integration work, plant medicine integration work. How do you then support someone and integrating those kinds of experiences?

Yeah, so the way I do it is I work with the person leading up to the ceremony. So the pre and the post ceremony are. I don't say. One is there's three parts to a ceremony. There's the pre, once you commit, there's the ceremony itself, and then there's the post. All of them, all three deserve equal 100% attention while you're in that period. So I worked with people for two or three weeks leading up to the ceremonies because it will bring up shit. This medicine starts working on you before it starts working on you. And so I work with people leading up, going through intention setting, going through, like, letting them be witness to the things that are going on with them without trying to, oh, my God, I gotta change it. Because the medicine will just say, like, remember that we're bringing that to ceremony. So I work with them for two or three weeks leading up the ceremony day itself. And I do either buffo or mushrooms, depends, or there's. I'll get in that in a second. It's either. Or whatever they're feeling called to. I'll hold space for them that day and then for six weeks afterwards, at least hold them in the integration process. Because the first six weeks, it can get out of hand. You know, there can be like this massive. Like, I need to change everything, slow down. Or like, I have no idea what's going on. I don't know what to do. Okay, great. Tell me what. Tell me how you, like, say it out loud. Like, let's get it clear and then coach them through that. Because I've talked to people that have gone and smoked bufo or even sat with mushrooms or ayahuasca and come back and be like, I had two years of hell because I had no. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what I was processing. I didn't know what I was feeling. You know, everything felt different and I didn't know what to do with it. And I'm like, well, that's why I hold you for at least six weeks.

Yeah. I highly recommend if someone is going to go on their first time experience, even if they feel inspired by this conversation, then do it properly.

Yeah. First. I mean, I think every time, like.

Yeah.

Because like you just can't. Like the humans wants to. We want to do it alone. And it's. To have, just to have someone there you can talk to that was there in the experience with you is. It's. There's no. It's like priceless.

Yeah. I remember the first time that I went to do mine. I was with a mutual friend. Alex.

Yeah.

In 2020. I had, we had picked the date and we had a good few months to, to lead up to. And obviously your first time, you're pretty nervous. I was quite nervous. Unsure what to expect. But all I knew was I had this document that the shaman had passed on to like how to prepare. Right. Like caffeine, you know, limit ejaculation, like do breath work, do hot yoga. So I had this full on protocol, man. And knowing me, I just, I like to be really OCD about how I'm prepping myself for any sort of big event. So I was treating this like the biggest event of my life. I went in there going, this is going to be the most life changing thing I've ever experienced. So I'm going to prep my body for that.

Yes.

I remember I didn't ejaculate for like two months. I was hot yoga a few times a week, breath work every day, like no sugar. And like fully dialed it in.

Yeah.

So that when I had the experience, like my body could. Had there was vitality for the medicine to work with.

Yeah.

And then I remember I went back a. A few months later, not at the same place, very. A lot lower energy, like lower vitality. And there was a completely different experience.

Yeah.

And it wiped me out. I was like super tired afterwards and just wasn't. Yeah. It wasn't the same.

It's all. Yeah. And you know, part of that dieta we just talked about is that like the, like prepare, like get ready for this. It's also a nod to the medicine saying, I respect you, I have reverence for what you're about. To offer. And so, like, people that, like, you see people go to, like, ayahuasca retreats, and they haven't. They've been eating meat and they've been eating sugar, and they drink coffee or smoke a cigarette the day before, and they go in like, oh, man, I had the worst ayahuasca trip ever. Like, you think I know why, Oscar? Ayahuasca is like, you don't respect me. I'm going to beat you down a little bit.

Yeah.

And then not only that, but, like, that resistance to actually honoring you, honoring your vessel in yourself. Ayahuasca, showing you, like, you do that a lot in your life. It's not just about, like, having caffeine the day before ayahuasca. It's like, where else in your life are you not having reverence for your vessel, for the existence, for this opportunity to be here? I mean, you look at Ancestry, it's 400 million to one shot that we're. That you and I are walking this planet, much less sitting here talking to each other. Have some fucking reverence for that, big time.

What do you think are signs of someone who maybe needs to go and smoke some bufo? Because not everyone needs to. We're not advocating, like, hey, you need to go experience this. But based on your past, it seemed like that was the medicine that you needed. Given the severity of the pain, the depth of that pain.

I mean, I would push back a little bit. Like, I think everybody needs to, no matter what. Cool.

Okay.

Just because it's such a. It's just such a conscious experience when.

Done properly, you know?

Yeah. I feel like. I feel like every human on earth, no matter where you are in life, if you're like the happiest, best you've ever been, it's going to offer you something. If you need to be brought up from a dark hole, it will offer you that as well. People that need it are the ones. I think that. So I'm big. So psychedelics is my work. And I. I'm deep in that world. I also preach and preach, but strongly talk about. We get to do a lot of work as a human being before psychedelics. We have to earn the right to be. To sit with psychedelics. So if I. If someone comes to me and I've been doing this work for three years, I've been working through these things, whether that's addiction, depression, anxiety, heartbreak, whatever it is. I've been doing this work as a human being, looking at all the things I know about, but I'm still there. I'm still struggling to sleep. I'm still struggling to be happy. I'm still, like, resisting and hitting the glass ceiling. And, like, repeating patterns are happening. That's when it's time to introduce bufo or ayahuasca or mushrooms, whatever it is. Because there's something like, if you're in a repeating pattern of three, five, six years, there's something that you don't know about that's going on. And it's subconscious. It's somatic. It's. BUFO is the. The ultimate somatic therapy. Like, it is the most physical. Like, you can do breath work and shake around and go to ayahuasca and throw up, but BUFO will literally take your body and just shake you. All the energies that no longer belong will leave. So that's the things that we don't know. Because as a human, the mind and the body actually have a massive disconnection when it comes to trauma and stored energies. Because the mind is like, it easily forgets. The body doesn't forget anything. And so when you recognize that, like, for me, it was like every three years, I would end up in, like, this depressive state. And so I'm like, I've been sober for six years, and it's been. I was. I was depressed. When I got sober, I was depressed again. About three years later. Three years later, I'm feeling depressed again. I knew in that moment I decided that I'm going to drop the sobriety conversation, I'm going to drop the Alcoholics Anonymous conversation, and I'm going to go searching for what I don't know about myself. And the best way to do that after six, after 15. Oh, fucking. Almost 18 years of work at a human level was psychedelics. Wow.

Damn, bro. Yeah, it lives on in the fascia. Like the tissue. Yes. You know, and the tissue, the fascia is like the energetic library of the past.

I love that.

Yeah. And what I've noticed is the body starts to contort. Like, the body will physically show where this energy is being held. And I would get massages all the time and, like, would have these specific areas where, like, I'm always sore here. I hold energy and emotion in this area, and then all of a sudden, the body's compensating. Maybe your posture is a bit. You sit a certain way, and then again, over a period of weeks and months, the energy starts to accumulate again. And all of a sudden you're holding. Right. And everything's being affected. And I started to become more aware of this recently around Posture and body alignment and how, you know, you can actually see what trauma someone's gone through based on how they stand, how they walk, how they sit. Yes, and I think that's a good point. Like, a good point to mention, which, you know, when you have the bufo experience or you have a big breath work experience, you're clearing these layers, or you'd go on a deep body work session or whatever, it's. Can you have that awareness to notice when these holding patterns are coming back? Maybe you don't express something or that you hold something in and it's the posture. It's like just relaxing the shoulders a bit, relax the jaw, breathe a little bit deeper, say what you need to say, and then it reduces the accumulation of that emotion.

100.

Do you agree with that?

100 agree. Like, I. I literally like walking around Austin or walking on the trail. Like, I'll see people that are walking, you know, like, all tensed or with like a up gate. You know, I'm like, you got some shit to release. Like, your body, you're so tensed up and like shoulders up or like, you know, just like, you talk about, like, you see posture, you see all people sit, walk, talk. Like, there's such directional. Like, for me, I see these somatic cues. And this is what I mean, it's what being trauma informed is. It's noticing how people's bodies are actually carrying what they're going through or what they have gone through. And so you talk about somatic release. I mean, it's everything. Go get a massage, go do bufo, go do breath work, bodywork, graston, whatever it is, gua sha, like, go get that stuff released and see what happens in your body. I mean, I've had people come to me that. So I do that 15 minutes of meditation and breath work before the bufo, and usually before any ceremony, but usually I have people sit, you know, Indian style, hands on these. Some people come there and they're like falling over. They can't sit there. Like, their hips are so tight and locked up, they just. They have to actually lay down. And then after the bufo, we're eating fruit, talking about what's going on, and they're sitting there Indian style with no problem just because their body released so much. I had a guy a couple weeks ago, it was this couple that I was serving. He had this, like, scar and, like, knot on his right leg. And he was sitting there processing and talking about it. And I asked him, I was like, what's up with that scar on Your leg? He's like, I always have this pain in my right knee. I'm like, what's up? That scar on your leg? And he's like. He just started crying. He's like. That was when my stepfather, who he hated, had terrible relationship with, abusive, all the things. He made me build a fence so that I couldn't run away. So he was 9 years old, and he made him carry these big barbed wire barrels around and build his own jail, basically. And he cut himself on the barbed wire. And he said. I've talked to him since. I've worked with him since. He said, the pain in my leg is completely gone. Like, there's no longer a twitch. There's no longer tightness there because he act. Because he. A safe place to tell that story. And the bufo completely released it.

Yeah, yeah. And the shame from an energetic energy center perspective is. Is the solar plexus where. Where that wound is. But it can also show up in your. Let your knee or your leg. Wherever you've got a weak area in your body, that's when you start to compensate and energy accumulates there. And what I find with these, like, energy blockages and holding patterns or just stagnation, expression gets limited. You know, this is a lot of the guys that come to me, you know, they want to. A lot of musicians recently, actually, I've been finding a lot of people, like, I mean, I'm a musician or I'm, like, producing music, or I'm trying to step more into my art. And straight away it's like, okay, cool. Like, what do we need to move through so that you can just be a clearer channel for whatever's trying to come through. And I think that's the biggest benefit or byproduct of confronting this, doing this work, facing the fear, letting the shit go is the gift. On the other side is like, you become a clearer conduit for. For God, for. For life to express through you, and then the world benefits from that, you.

Know, I mean, look. Look at Preston. Preston smiles like good buddy of ours. He. He is a fully expressed man because he's done the work to clear the body. And through all the practices, the somatic practices, the allowing practice, like, whatever it is. Like, you see people that are fully expressed like that, and it's attractive.

Yes, I want that magnetizing.

Yeah, I want to be that. I want to feel expressed like that. So that is a real. It can be a real driver because that is what freedom is. That allows you to be free in love, that allows you to be free in intimacy. That expression allows you to be free in everything that you do.

Dude, amazing. Mindful of time here, but this is juicy, bro. We need another hour for this. But tell me more about, like, the relationship realm, because you've. You've. You've learned a lot of lessons in the. In a relationship space and men. Heartbreak is a big teacher for men. It was my first teacher. There's no doubt about that. Yeah, you've had to go through a few heartbreaks. I know one recently that's, like, fresh.

Yeah, that's what's happening right now.

How do you. Like, how do you help a man? Like, what's your suggestion on, like, if a man's going through that and they're like, they're struggling right now, like, just broke up with someone or, like, the relationship's kind of struggling, what's the medicine for that?

Wow, that's a good question. Because the medicine is not where you start, that's for sure. The medicine when you start is allow it. Feel it for a good minute, like, uncomfortable amount of time, weeks, maybe a month. Really allow yourself to be in that sorrow, that grief, that sadness. Because if you don't start grieving, feeling sad and grieving and go hop, like, what's the best way to get over somebody? Is to get under somebody else that's not gonna come. Yeah, I've tried that. It feels awful.

Yeah.

And, you know, this is the first heartbreak that I've walked through as a fully awake, conscious man. And I was telling somebody yesterday, it is the most painful and also the easiest that that's ever. That I've ever experienced. It's that experience simultaneously, because it's easiest, because I know. I know that this is, for me. I know that this is moving me in the direction of everything that I desire to be as a man. Painful. Because, fuck, I feel it. I feel the loss, I feel the grief. I feel the sadness. I feel the questions. I feel the What. The. The. All the wounds, the shame, the. The. The ways I wasn't showing up. Like, they are all so fucking present and easy. Because thank you. Thank you for showing me everything that I needed to know. Because this is me answering that question of what do I get to do to die complete. This is a. This is an answer. This is one of the answers along the way to that question. Because now I am so fucking clear about how I get to show up about where I wasn't showing up about, like, putting things I know and I teach other men that I wasn't doing in A practice getting ruthy fucking honest with myself about how I wasn't like, okay, I'm a sacred. I'm sacred masculine. I am like, I've cultivated that in my body. I have that energy, and it didn't work, at least not in that iteration. So I get to look at where do I get to refine or where do I get to cultivate new levels of that drop in deeper to it. Really? Really. Because one of the things that comes up for me and that I've noticed recently, and these are things that I've worked on in the past a lot. I've worked on most things in the past. There's very few things that I can be presented with that are new to me. It doesn't mean I'm graduated from them. It means that, okay, it's being presented. It means that there's still something there for me. So the two that are coming up now are attachment style and codependency. Like, looking at how those two things can get in my way when it comes to love, intimacy, sacred union. And so there's. Now take those down another level. There's shame there. There's insignificance there. There's insecurity there. There's rejection, fear of rejection there. So avoidant attachment is the attachment style that I. That is my default. And again, I've worked on it, and it's a pattern that I've seen in relationships since I got divorced in 2004. So 20 years, I've had four significant relationships. I'm recognizing now that all four have basically gone the same way. And it ended up with the girl. In the end, the girl broke up with me, and it hurts. And so here I am again. What do I not know? Show me what I don't know. So that this pattern for me and for the future, the woman of my future, like, so that we can both be in this and finish it and see it through and be in love and be happy and be teammates and all the things that are beautiful about that. So the medicine is one. Allow it, really feel it. Allow it to be what it is. Don't try and sleep it away. Don't try and do, like, make it go away. Like, allow the body to process it through, scream a lot, do breath, work a lot. You know, work out a lot. Like, move the energies through your body. And then the next medicine is, if it broke your heart, but it opened your eyes, take that win. Because that's. And that's where I got pretty quickly with this breakup is like, pretty much Immediately it was like, okay, where have I been looking away? What have I not been seeing? Because this breakup is here to open my eyes to a greater experience of this life.

Oh, man. Yes to that. Yes to that. Relationships are the fucking clearest mirror, man.

They are the most powerful ceremony we ever get to be in.

Yeah.

No questions asked.

Yeah. I'm so grateful for my relationship, bro.

You guys are fucking amazing.

Thank you.

Just like witnessing you up the burning man and now here in Austin, like, the way you two interact and get along and just hold each other is really, really beautiful.

Thanks, bro. Yeah, I appreciate that. And I keep learning every single day that I will get the clearest reflection of my level of presence by how she's. How she is. Dude.

The women that, like, as we get conscious, conscious men, the level of women that we attract will not settle for bullshit.

They'll make your life a living hell.

If you they will make your life.

A living hell if you fall asleep at the wheel, you know?

Totally. And like, that's. I think a lot of men get turned off by that. And that's why I work with these men, is to create the body that can. Because you know what? The men we. Every man wants that. Not every man can hold that right now. And that's where these women are. Like, there's women out there that are like, men. Get in the fucking arena. Do the work. Like, come hold me. I want you to hold me. But get yourself to a point where you actually can.

Yeah. That's why some of the most viral videos that I put out are the videos of, say, a high achieving man who's had a long day and he goes to hang out with his missus and he just can't be present around her. He's in it. He's in her hair. He's in his head. Just like, can't be there. The amount of comments, bro, I've got, like, yep, this is me. This is my life. Like, relate. I'm like, fuck. Like, imagine how many women are out there just not feeling seen or connected or any level of intimacy from their man.

Because rejected, essentially.

And then the relationship turns into this coexisting experience.

Yeah. Of misery.

And I'm like, that's not it, man.

Like, it's. It's the. It's the matt. It's the core masculine wound and the core feminine wound in a relationship. So the core feminine wound, I am too much. Core masculine wound, I am not enough. So in that dynamic we were talking about, where the man's disconnected and out the Woman's feeling, she's too much because she wants sex, because she wants emotion. The man's feeling is not enough because he can't. He sees it, and he can't give that to her. So then these two wounds you're in a relationship with, these two wounds that are just constantly cycling through.

Yeah, you've explained this really well, bro. I really like the level of. You can feel the level of clarity that you've got in being able to articulate this. And I really hope everyone listening has got something of value from this today. Do you plan on having kids? Do you have kids right now?

I don't have kids. I definitely want to have kids. For a long time, I didn't. In the past, I didn't because I had this story about. With all that stuff I've experienced, from the severe childhood asthma to the severe food allergies to 15 years of addiction to a lot of my life feeling like an inability to be a man in this world. So basically feeling like a failure as a man. So I was. I had a long time. I had this story of. I don't. I'm not healed enough or I'm not good enough to bring another. To pass this. This experience on to another man or another boy or a girl, a daughter or son. And I've gotten to the point in the past couple years where, like, actually, I need to pass this on. Like, there. There needs to be a second, another step to this lineage of either a daughter or son that gets to be a representation of me, because I've done the work to get myself to the point where I can actually raise an amazing little human being.

I was thinking that, man, that's why I asked. I was like, you. You'd be a fucking great dad.

Thank you.

And I would love for my kids to be hanging out with your kids. So let's make sure that happens before we. Before I let you go and we wrap it here, there was something that I read on your Instagram feed before we came here around the levels of intimacy that I really resonated with. I make a lot of content on intimacy and polarity and things like that. And as a post you made about the seven types of intimacy in a conscious relationship.

Yes.

Do you mind just speaking to that quickly? Because I thought it was really insightful.

Yeah. You know, we. This old story of intimacy in the. It's the bedroom. It's like, how. How. How do we interact physically? And intimacy is so. Intimacy is so much deeper than that. Like, we're being intimate right now, you know, there's so many levels of intimacy that it's like, you know, there's. That's why I put that on that post. I had the wheel of intimacy because my hope was that people would, like, screenshot that and be like, oh, I'm a two here, I'm a seven in the bedroom, but experientially I'm a one, or like. Or emotionally I'm a three. Like, where do you get to balance out your levels of intimacy here so that that wheel moves smooth? Because intimacy is the basis. It is the basis for the relationship. And anywhere that that's being compromised, it's going to bleed into other areas of relationship. So if you're not able to be intimate with your woman driving to get groceries, there's going to be a level of disconnect in the bedroom that that's going to bleed into and vice versa. If you're disconnected in the bedroom, she's not going to want to even talk to you. Really. She will, because you live in the same house. But she's really going to be in the back of her head. Like the physical touch, which is so important for women and men too, but it's going to be gone because she doesn't trust you to touch her. And if you, if there's any intimacy that gets sacrificed in that wheel of seven, all the other ones are going to suffer. Like, there's no way that you can have one without the other.

Yeah, yeah, big time. And then you mentioned one about the spiritual intimacy.

Spiritual intimacy? Yeah. Spiritual intimacy is where do you meet each other in the astrals? Where do you meet each other in meditation, journaling? Do you do plant medicine together? Do you actually talk about what your connection to spirit is like? How do you feel connected to Source? Do you say, are you able to call each other out? Struggle oftentimes is simply disconnection from Source. If you're struggling, if you're out of acceptance, if you're having a less than ideal experience in your life, it's because you're not connected to Source. So in a relationship, like, how intimately can that woman bring you back into connection with Source? Because she is fucking Source. She is the feminine is God. No questions about it. They are portals. It is it. So how. How well do you allow her to bring. Bring you. See you in that disconnection and bring you back into connection with Source and vice versa? Like, how well can you guys meet in the spiritual, meet in that realm that is not of the human and see each other there and Co regulate there in that space with each other.

It's interesting. It's. On a human level, the term you complete me is untrue. But on a spiritual level, it is true.

Yeah. Oh, that's so good.

I just realized that it's like you need a woman to complete you as a man on a spiritual level. And a woman needs a man totally, 100%. And then when we do this work and we find the wholeness within ourselves, and then you bring the wholeness of a beautiful feminine woman into the play, all of a sudden, as a man, you access a whole new level of divinity.

It's 100% true. Yeah.

Yeah, man. I hope that anyone's listening to this, got inspired by our conversation and feels compelled to want to go out there and do whatever work they need to do on themselves so that they can raise the standard of the quality of intimacy and love in their life. Because everyone. Everyone fucking deserves it, man.

Everyone deserves it, and it will. It's whether we want to say we don't need it, we don't want it. We all. It all. It gets to be part of this human experience. And so that's the thing, man. By dishonoring that connection of intimacy, of love, of relationship, you're dishonoring the human experience. And that's. I mean, we can talk all about spirituality and all the things that are not of this world, of the very human physical existence. Yes. Throat chakra. Yes. Go there, be there, do the work there, and come back and have a good time as a human. You know, like, enjoy the passing of time. I said I read something last night. The key to happiness is to learn to enjoy the passing of time.

Oh, that's great.

Simple and great.

I like that.

Yeah.

I like that a lot.

Yeah.

I hate the statement, I'm just. Just killing time right now.

Yeah.

When would you ever want to say that?

Never.

I just need to kill some time.

Yeah.

No, enjoy the passing of time. What do I need to give myself right now to enjoy this passing of time? Are you waiting for a fucking bus.

Maybe, or, you know, laying on the couch watching Netflix or spending four hours meditating. Like, it gets to be all of it. That's the thing is, like, this life gets to be all of it. You know, you don't have to leave things out. People think, oh, I can't do that because I have to do this. Is that really true? Yeah, maybe in this moment. But take a bigger picture. Like, you get to do both.

Yeah. I think about that when I have to do things in My business. And I'm like, oh, I gotta do, look at my accounting. I gotta do my accounting stuff. And how can I enjoy this Passing with time. I put on some good music. Maybe it's, you know, like blood, a candle or something and just.

Yeah.

Be present. Yeah.

And that's, that's the thing like we. Relationships, like. Okay, relationships are man, woman. Right. How, how well do you relate to the entirety of your life? Money, yourself, working out, food, tv, your woman, like it's get in right relation with all of your life. That's how you enjoy the passing of time.

Yeah, big time. So true. Dude, this has been such an amazing conversation.

Yeah, thank you so much.

Yeah, thank you.

It's been so great to have you here in Austin.

Yeah.

I really hope that you get, you make it back here or that we. I'm sure we'll cross paths again.

100%. Yeah. I'm really, really grateful. We got to connect and like, now I get to say that you're one of my best friends.

Yeah, brother.

We're going to do many, many more things together. Yeah, I'd love to do a retreat together, actually.

Yeah, you beat me to it. I was just about to say that we should definitely do like a relationship retreat.

Definitely, Definitely. Yeah, we'll get the toad medicine in there as well.

We'll bring it all in. That's what I do in my private retreats is I do a day of breathwork to start a day of toad, a day of mushrooms, and then a full day of integration.

Okay, well if you're listening to this and you're like, yep, sign me up for that shit, send me a dm or send Sam a DM to say, hey, heard the podcast, like put my name down for the retreat when it happens, because we will make it happen. There's no yeah, bro. Where can people connect with you, learn more about what you're up to?

Yeah. Best place is Sam Gibbs Morris on instagram. So at SamGibbs Morris. That's Gibbs. Then the website is SamGibbsMorris.com dope.

Love you, bro.

Love you too, man. Thank you so much.

Thank you. There we have it, my friend.

Thank you so much for tuning in to today's episode. One last thing before you take off.

I want to tell you a little.

Bit about the path, which is a four month men's program that I facilitate. Enrollments are currently open and if you're a man listening to this or you know, a man that may feel the call to step into a men's program and men's group, then this is the opportunity for him. And if you're tuning into my content, if you're here, you're listening to this, there's some sort of resonance through what I'm putting out. There's something that's calling you to step into this work. And I have decided that I wanted to, you know, create opportunities for men to come together to attract the right kinds of men who are willing to support each other in this journey and what the path is. It's a four month men's program where we go into each of the domains, all of the domains of a man's life, his relationships, his finances, his spirituality, his health, his fitness, all the areas to help him achieve full potency. And we do this through a very specific, measurable, tracked program where we have structure and we have accountability and we have guidance. And essentially we meet every week, we come together, we measurably track progress in each of these areas and we have safe spaces where we can open up around other men to release the things we've been holding on to, to release the blockages that holding us back from being true, authentic, grounded warriors in this earth. And if you're here, you know the urgency, you know the need for this kind of work, especially for us men to step into this new level of leadership. So I just wanted to let you know that we're now taking enrollments for the next round. It's something that, you know, I really feel that this is my heart and soul's calling to bring this work to fellow men, to fellow brothers like yourself. So if you head over to thepathbrotherhood.com you'll be able to learn more information about the path, what it's about and how to apply. And if there's something in your soul that's resonating with what I'm sharing, then please follow that, follow that calling. Because on the other side of it is a whole new realm of possibility, power and confidence that will just start to emit from you. It will emanate out of you. You deserve it, my friend. You fucking deserve it. Thank you for being here. I appreciate you. And hopefully we'll see you on the inside. Take care.