SSP146: Redefining Masculinity: A conversation with Dr. Ryan Gleeson

Hey, guys, what's going on? Welcome back to the podcast. Looking forward to sharing today's interview with you. This is actually an interview that I was invited onto with a good friend of mine, Ryan Gleason. When I was back in Perth, we dove into a lot of the things around healthy masculinity and how men can show up more powerfully in relationships. And I was just sharing some of the recent insights and clarity that I was gathering in my own journey, my own relationship. And at the time, I was spending about two to three months away from Amanda, my partner. And it was during that time that I got so much understanding and realizations around how I could be showing up better. And it was just fresh for me to share some of this with you guys. I wanted to just preface this by saying I'm by no means an expert in the things that I'm talking about, but these are fresh insights and lessons on how to be a better man, how to lead with more conviction, more assertiveness in your relationship as a man. If you're a woman watching this too, then there's going to be some good value for here as well, because this is what you get to declare, is where you get to open yourself to receiving and almost demand a high standard in the men that you're attracting. So I'm looking forward to looking forward for you, watching this and listening to this interview today. And if you get some value from it, make sure you check out Ryan Gleason's podcast. He's a legend. Make sure you subscribe to the State Shifters podcast and this channel, if you haven't already. Enjoy the conversation, provide financially, satisfy your woman in the bedroom, have your life in order. And some of that is healthy masculinity, but without the it doesn't mean shit.

Jordan Candlish is a performance coach and creator, helping high performers think less and.

Feel feel more so they can connect deeper in relationships.

Why do you think men are struggling?

No clear guidance, no role models, no honest reflections.

Do you find a lot of men go for someone like their mum?

Well, unconsciously we do.

Why do you think that is? Because what's the most important question a man needs to ask himself?

Who am I? That's a question we ask ourselves or a man should be asking himself throughout his entire life.

What do you think the ultimate therapy is for men?

Oh.

Jordan, welcome.

Good to be here, brother.

You've worked with a lot of men over the years, so why do you think men are struggling?

No clear guidance, no role models, and no honest reflections in their Life. I can expand on that if you want, but.

Yeah, expand on that.

Yeah. Well, I don't know about you, but I didn't get any really clear guidance around what does it mean to be a man who's in his healthy masculine energy? That was never explained to me. I've only just recently tried to figure that out for myself. And I'm still figuring it out. And when, you know, what I've realized is it's not until you know, what unhealthy masculinity looks like is when you start to open up to, how do I live more in my authentic masculinity? So that's one thing. Having clear guidance as to. And role models to know. Okay, that's what it means to be a fucking real man, a real leader. Not just a leader who provides financially, but a leader who provides emotionally can hold a safe space for the women in his life. And as someone you can depend upon a man of, like, integrity of stature, you know, so. And then the honest reflections part is like, we now so many men, me included, when you leave like a sporting environment, say, I played a lot of sport growing up, your coach is giving you an honest reflection of how you're performing in life. But when you leave a sporting environment where you've got someone there giving you coaching and guidance to be like, yeah, you could do that better, or you're a bit out of integrity here, or you made a mistake there, men just kind of like winging it at home with their families. They, like, pour all their energy into their business or their work, and they come home, there's nothing left to give for their wife. And their wife is. Or partner is subtly giving them reflections, but shows up in ways that they don't like it, so they shut down and withdraw and pull away.

You know, how did you. Before you started taking the journey of understanding what healthy masculinity looked like, how did you think a man was supposed to be.

Provide financially? Yeah, get a good job. Get a good job. You know, make good money, satisfy your woman in the bedroom and just have, like, have your life in order. Have your life in order. And some of that, to an extent, is healthy masculinity like that, that needs to be a part of it. But without the emotional safety piece, it doesn't mean shit. Like, if you can't be stable in yourself emotionally, it doesn't matter how much fucking money you make. Like, your women, your friends, your family, they can't depend on you because you'll capitulate when things get overwhelming or Intense because you have no capacity left. And ultimately presence is the best currency out there. You know, we all know that. It's just, it's hard to, it's hard to stay in that state, you know.

Of course, especially if you're, you're a high achiever and you're, and you're used to like working hard, the hustle. You're intelligent, you're, and you, A lot of your self worth is wrapped up in, you know, could be in being a protector provider and just really developing yourself. But as you said, the. How would, how would most guys understand that what emotional safety is? Because for a lot of guys that would just sound like a ridiculous term to them.

For sure. For sure. Can you listen to your partner or someone you care about have a really emotional conversation without shutting down or without feeling attacked? Or can you listen to yourself when you're feeling anxious, angry, overwhelmed, sad, and not judge it and be with it without having a drink or without fucking burying yourself in work, or without pulling out the phone and flicking through social media? Can you be with it and be like, this is okay, I can be with this. Easier said than done, you know, but until we're able to provide that for ourselves, we're not gonna be able to provide it for someone else. And more specifically, a lot of the men that I speak to, relationships get to the point where they, they're about to fall apart because they can't hold that space with their partner. And then their partner is not able to provide for them in a way in which they need. So the relationship becomes a lot of work and it becomes very draining and then the spark or polarity starts to dissolve and then you're just coexisting with someone who picks on you and they treat you like your mum. And then you start either withdrawing or.

Attacking and it's, it's often not until it hits that diabolical state. But everything just either financially, relationally, probably most of the time both goes to hell in a handbasket. That guys go. And then they become open.

Yeah. And. But they're thinking the whole time like, what the hell am I doing wrong? Like I'm, I'm, I'm working hard. Can't you see all this hard work that I'm doing and I'm buying you nice things or whatever it might be. But if that deeper emotional support system is not there, especially for the feminine, there's going to be a void that they'll seek to fill somewhere else. Same with us if we don't, if we're not filling that emotional void that's there. We'll unconsciously seek to fill it in some other way. And usually it's unhealthy.

And how would a guy emotionally support a woman in the best way? Assuming he's busy, relatively successful, got a lot of stress, trying to juggle, health, fitness, business, how. How would he best support his partner?

Yeah, that's a good question. Man, I, and I have not figured this out, so I want to free face that I'm a work in progress. But as I'm figuring it out, I'm like more inclined to want to share what I'm learning, you know. But one thing that I realized, this is for the nice guys out there. There's a lot of guys that, you know, I work with, and me included, who have gone through that, like the nice guy tendencies, pleasing, want to do everything right, not setting strong boundaries and then almost getting passive with decision making. And this is what I've realized is a big thing that a lot of men can do to support their woman is provide some order or structure around the house in terms of, help alleviate some of the decision making pressure that your partner has to make. Planning dates, helping her around the house around, like just taking care of things so she's not coming home flustered or overwhelmed. Start to get in the habit of creating that structure around like, hey sweetheart, like we're going on a holiday. I've narrowed down a few options for hotels. Which one do you want? And that simple bit of structure like, or like, hey, here are the options that I've mapped out for dinner tonight. Which one calls to you most? Most men are just like, I don't know what I want or like, yeah, you can pick it. Or I'm easy, I'm good. Like, I don't mind, like that, that is not clear direction that can provide your woman with something to be like, oh, okay, he knows what he wants. He's given me some structure, something I can follow. So that's a big thing. Just being more decisive, direct and fucking clear on what it is that you want as a man. And like for some men that can, they can be all good with their, in their business like that and then come home and go passive because they're so burnt out and they're just like full. They drop straight into their feminine. And the wife's the one making all the decisions and leading the house.

Yeah, and women don't want to. I mean we all have the masculine feminine tendency, but you don't want to have your, have your partner particularly Masculine man have to drop into her masculine at home because often they'll have to. A lot of women have to drop into their masculine at work.

Yes.

In order. Especially if they're in sales or management or leadership or they're entrepreneurial themselves. And I find, I really feel for a lot of women who have that, you know, those roles that are, they're, they're, they're tougher, they're real masculine roles where they have to be very clear, direct and eat a lot of and be very resilient. And you think that's amazing. But then drop into the family life or drop into even just being a partner and then for them to get out of their masculine state. How would you advise a guy to support a partner who has a very masculine role but to help her get back in a feminine.

Yeah, man, it's hard. That's a hard one. Yeah, for sure. Because like, that's where you've got even more responsibility to be. Like when, when it's okay for her to be in a masculine and be in the mind and doing, doing the role, whatever it might be. But when she comes home, like, you do not want your woman staying in that role because it's like you don't want to be fucking bossed around. Like, yeah, that's not attractive. It's not attractive. So then it's like, okay, what do I need to give myself so that I can provide that element of safety or grounding? I feel like that's, that's the one thing. Like, be that grounding rod for her to be like, hey, come back to your body. Like, what are you feeling? Hey, just relax. You got the night off. Come relax. I've prepped dinner. Everything's prepped, organized. You come home, you can chill, gonna have a bath, breathe. And I'm here. I got it. Like that level of self accountability or that level of control, self control can really, like from a nervous system perspective start to rub off on the person you're around. And they can just exhale and be like, oh, okay, had a long day, but I'm good. Rather than coming home and still thinking that they have to take care of everything.

Yeah. I think a lot of that's because the guys are a bit wishy washy and they're, they're inconsistent and they become slightly more passive.

Yeah.

And then the more passive they become, the more masculine she'll become. And I've got like, there's some guys I know. One of my mates does like, does very well. Like, he makes, he makes, he Makes quite a fair bit of money and he makes it not working long hours. He probably does 30, not even 35 hours a week. Does very well, does very well and is actually very good at in terms of helping with the kids. He's very available as a partner for a guy who earns as much money as he has. But as his partner is also, you know, wanting to get back into her business. Wouldn't earn anywhere near, you know what he would. But because I've seen his, his nature, he's just become more and more passive and just not owning his masculine not. But also he's like someone that's been very inconsistent as well and bit wishy washy and as opposed to being very grounded with his career, what he wants to do, still support his partner, which he does. But then just seeing this like start the, his career slightly have to erode and, and get put on the back burner when it's totally unnecessary for sure. And then that just builds resentment totally on both ends.

Exactly.

Because no woman, even if she's in business and she does very well, she's intelligent, she wants to have that career and go for it, that's great. But if the guy's got, he's going career and he, they've got a family, yeah, he'll want to support. But there's ways of, if you both one successful and the other one's fairly successful, you can, you can make it work. You can. And if you've got that, the beauty is you have financial resources, you know, and you can pay people to do a lot of, a lot of stuff that you don't need to do that like another couple might not have the.

Resources to free up bandwidth and most importantly have like check ins with each other to make sure that you're on track and communicate.

Man, Man, I'm so, I've just turned 40, right. So. And a lot of my mates are all similar age. Like most of them I'm not married but like most of my mates, married kids, intelligent guys, so intelligent with their career, money, emotionally not intelligent but like they, but they're those guys and you see now that you really start to see things a bit more and you understand that space and you. Traditionally I would have, I would have been fully on their side and just said man, you just, you earn, you do so well, you do everything for your partner. Like she can just give you a bit of slack back. She, when you start to understand it a bit more, you're like, man, it's actually not that hard. You just have to do X, Y, Z. And just like, you know, dial this back and appreciate them a bit here and. And like, your life would be a lot easier, but it's like, you're stuck in this, like, high logic, highly stressed out. I do X, Y, Z. Why can't you do this, this, this? But it's like, man, you just need to, like, understand their perspective. They're not blokes, like, which is the amazing thing. You don't want to be with a bloke.

Yeah.

If you're a bloke, you're that way. Like, you're attracted. You're attracted to the family. Don't. You don't want to say. But you need to. I think learning. And a lot of guys, no one taught us that. No. And then. And a lot of guys, because they are intelligent. And the thing is, they have that ego. I understand people. I'm socially smart. Xyz. And they don't fucking listen. Even not. They're definitely not gonna listen to their partner, but they don't even listen to blokes. And when do they listen? When it all goes to hell in a handbasket. And I almost sometimes need that.

Yeah, definitely, definitely. And it doesn't have to be like that, which is why the more you listen to yourself, the easier everything else gets.

Definitely.

Yeah.

Where. How did. How do guys become people pleasers?

Well, the generation of my generation and probably your generation as well, where, like, our fathers had to sacrifice a lot to provide for our families. And there was. Our fathers pretty much had to disassociate from any sort of emotional experience because there was just no safety for that back then. And what that turns into is a father who is not present or is not emotionally available for his. His son. And then the son has to be. The son gets conditional love from that dad based on performance or achievement. And what often happens is, like, for the people pleasers or the nice guys, there is this fear of upsetting the father, the fear of not winning the father's love. Because I don't know about you, but growing up, if I didn't behave, I got fucking. You know, my dad got angry at me. And that anger created this, like, fear in my nervous system of letting people down. It was a fear of, like, confrontation. And that fear of confrontation creates an unhealthy relationship with anger and anger. A man must have a healthy relationship with anger because anger is a primal response to someone crossing your boundaries. And what happens is, with these nice guys or people. Please. Is they're not good at setting boundaries. Because they're afraid of confrontation. And what ends up happening is people start crossing their boundaries and. And then they get angry, but because they don't know how to express their anger, it stays in their body and then starts leaking out as, like, passive aggressiveness, irritation, or, like, impatience or just. They start, you know, shutting down or isolating from people. All signs of suppressed anger. So anger is usually the first place that I go when I'm working with a man. What's his relationship like with anger? Because then that will reveal where a lot of these buried emotions are stemming from, you know?

Definitely. A lot of. A lot of people think people pleasers are nice guys. It's like, man, they're like some of the most pissed off.

Manipulative.

Manipulative, resentful. You know, I've always. Have you heard of, like, a white knight?

I. I think so. Maybe.

Why not? Why not? Why not? Those guys that they, like, just try and hang around and be, like, nice to girls, and they. They just did this waiting there in the wings just for weak moments so they can get in as opposed to just actually, like, having a crack and throwing it out there and, you know.

Yeah, I'm sure we all know a few of them. Yeah.

You either. You either have a crack, you win, or you lose, and you walk on and you go on your merry way. Like, they're. It's like a form of people pleaser. They, like, try. It's very manipulative. You try and go under the radar. It's just like. It's very. It's very deceptive as well. And they're like. They're just such. I couldn't imagine for how bad it'd be for a woman to be with a people pleaser. And that's a scale. And everyone's got some degree of people pleasing, but like a full people pleaser because they just totally dishonor themselves. And they're so fucking pissed off because, like, everyone. No one respects them. Everyone walks all over him.

Yeah.

They can't communicate what they want. And you can imagine how, like, pissed they'd be.

Yeah. And it's just. I have compassion for them because I know I had to go through. And it's. And I went through all of those tendencies, the nice guy tendencies, people pleasing, not being able to express myself. But the way out is you have to stop being a coward, essentially. And it doesn't matter how much hard shit you do on an external level, whether it's in a business or go to the fucking SAS retreats, whatever it is. If you're not willing to confront the shame that back there, your deepest, darkest secrets, you've been account. And that cowardness will show up is behavior that is inauthentic, and that's what people pick up. And that's why those nice guys and people pleasers aren't able to hold, like, real depth in their relationship or they don't garner the respect that they really want is because they're hiding. And I, like, I have compassion for her, but at the same time, it's like, it's time to stop hiding, like, come out. Like, let's just look at it. What are you afraid to look at?

You know, just feel like there's a lot of abandonment intertwined with it.

So much. Yeah, so much. And I, you know, my father's generation, you know, the baby boom generation, like, they sacrifice so much for us, but at the same time, most of them won't go looking at the shame that's back there. And I get it. Scary.

But I find that generation, they're not as big people pleasers.

No, no.

Like, our generation is so much worse. Every.

Yeah.

Every subsequent generation is. It's interesting. Like, it's do. What role do you think the mother plays?

Well, the mother is.

Spoke about the father.

Yeah. The mother is, is. Is. Your own relationship with your emotional experience is defined by your relationship to your mother.

Yeah.

So if your mother wasn't there for you emotionally, like, she wasn't in touch with her emotion, so she couldn't provide you that well, the feminine support, which is when you think of the word feminine, at least for me, I think nurturance, tenderness, gentleness, compassion, empathy, all of these qualities, you don't have access to them because your mom wasn't able to provide them for you because that's where you're learning it from. So if you don't have a disconnected relationship with your mother, you have a disconnected relationship with your own emotions, you don't know how to feel. Right. And then that then turns into, you know, a man who's not really sensitive in a healthy way, like, in terms of. He's not going to be able to feel what other people are feeling because he's disconnected from his own emotions or he can't express what he's feeling because he just. He's just in his head. He doesn't know. You ask him, what are you feeling, man? Like, I don't know. I'm all right. I'm good.

Like.

Like, what's going on in your body? Like, that to me is like a Disconnected relationship with the. With the mother, if that makes sense.

Definitely. It's a very interesting exercise is. Is for anyone just to do nothing and see what comes out.

It's. It's probably the most productive and valuable exercise for most people.

Surprisingly uncomfortable as well.

Yeah.

And always anyone I find who I've ever spoken, myself included, for a while ago, who would sort of go, oh, look, man, the worst thing ever is just like, keeping still, not. Not doing anything. I can't. I can't. Like, anyone's. Like, I just lose my mind when. When I'm not doing something.

Yeah.

Like, it's almost just like before I used to be like. Because I'm always such a adhd, like always doing personality. But I mean, that's. That's part of. It's my wiring. But part of it is a lot of these things that, you know, you are. You are running from. And there's. There's elements of both. There's elements of wiring, there's elements of ambition, there's elements of. You're like, you're, you know, you're masking shit.

Well, there is. There is a wiring. Have you ever read the book Driven by.

Yes.

Doug Brackman a while ago? Yes. There is a legit DNA wiring. There's a gene mutation called the DRD2 gene that most really high performers will have, which is a gene that affects your. The dopamine pathways, which means a lot harder for. I would suspect you have it. Like, have you done your DNA analysis, anything like that? Well, if you have that gene, like, there's a strong tendency you're going fall into addictive behaviors because you're chasing the dopamine. And I've got that too. So I'm like, fully aware of it shows up in the DNA, and I just now know to offset that, I gotta have time where I'm actively focusing on being in the present moment. And what's helpful is meditation helps, but have an actual setup where. That's why I love drinking tea. I do tea ceremonies now because the whole act of pouring the tea, setting up the tea, it's not. I'm not closing my eyes to meditate, but the movement and the experience of prepping it and drinking it and observing my environment brings me into the. Into the present. So, like martial arts, jiu jitsu, all these things are perfect for these types of driven individuals because it's just like something to ground us back into our bodies, back into now, you know, and.

Even things that are, like, beyond martial arts and fitness, they're great but things that, like, where you have to be a lot more still.

Yeah, yeah.

Because a lot of, like, driven people, like, I love training hard, working hard. Everything's just like, sympathetic nervous system. You know what I mean? Errors, like, for a lot of people that, like doing stuff where you just. You're sitting or you're in nature or you're sitting in a sauna and not on your phone. I find for me, man, I'm very much like that. I'm highly dopaminergic. Seeking as well. And even still, like, I. I know my wiring as well. And like. And I'm. And I have been very prone to addictive tendencies, whether it's, you know, from sex, from work, from, like, you know, phone being on the phone. So everything is just dopamine, dopaminergic. So that's where, like, someone like me, it's. I need to create boundaries on myself. So I have to do things where, like, if they do a sauna and you can't look at your phone or like, oh, no. Even though often I'll watch a podcast while I'm doing a sauna and. But that's still, like, I'm still stimulating.

Yeah.

And it's great. I still get value from it because I'm like, oh, I don't get that time to sit there and watch it, which. Which is good. But you need that time where. And I find one practice I do. I try and do it once a week is I'll go for like an hour and a half walk and try and not look at my phone or not like, anything. And it's amazing from doing that, I get so much more value. And when I go through periods of a few months or I don't do that, I'm like. And then you do it again. You go, what the. Did I stop doing that? The. The insight I get when I do that. And it's never in the first half an hour. It's always about 60 minutes, 70 minutes. And then I get, like, clarity over something, and I'm like, holy, man. That's actually worth so much more than, you know, going to the gym and smashing another workout. Which I wouldn't. You know, I just wouldn't get that clarity because for me, it's not. Oh, I just need to train harder and more. Some people, that's what they need to do. Me, I'm the other way. I'm like, I need to slow down and, like, get my nervous system and just start to downregulate it.

Yeah. What I've. What I'VE learned is there is a. The nervous system is like a bank account and the bank account is always needs to be balanced. Like the, the balance sheet, it needs to be balanced all the time. So if there, if you're making sympathetic deposits, meaning you're stimulate using stimulated activities such as working out, ice baths, coffee breath work, all of these things that are activating the sympathetic nervous system. You're depositing energy from the nervous system that check balance needs to be balanced out with parasympathetic based activity. So if you're doing two hours of intensity, there needs to be two hours of rest and relaxation. Otherwise you're slowly, you know, you're slowly going to be at a deficit which then turns into slight depletion. And without realizing you're operating from 70%, 60% most of the time thinking that you're, you're on but you're not, you're actually at 60%. So that's what I found is like having two rest days in the week where I'm off and it's like 80 parasympathetic Yin I'm chilling the out allows me to then show up like Whoa, I'm 100 today. Like I'm fully charged and I can both like give it everything. And it's just planning the week around that game day, rest day, buffer day. Yeah, yeah.

And it's saying that for people who work hard and they're. It's like when I used to hear that and even now it's the thing I struggle with. Putting boundaries on or not working, not training, not doing these things. But when you do do it like man, the quality work is so much better and quality like so much. You are so much more connected with people. You don't need to go to things like oh, get that coffee because I need a coffee because I'm pushing for 10 hours in the day.

Correct.

And then you're just not present with people and then that's going to affect your sleep and then your sleep's not going to be good. Then you, it's that cycle and you do I really one of my coaches always said you got to slow down the speed up 100. And in business as well, like sometimes you just, you can't just go bang, bang, bang, bang. I think you're going to have this growth and things like you got sometimes you got to go up and this plateau allow things to stabilize, get used to it before you, before you boom. Or before you reset again. Exactly, yeah. And that's something that's like for people who are less like, nah, that's. You just, you just hustle and you just grind and it's like, I get that. But then there's, there's, there's a massive, there's a massive cost for that.

Well, just. Yeah. If you just look at how an elite athlete operates, are they grinding all the time? Like, we see them perform on gala. If you look at a basketball player right there, the intense schedule. But when they're not playing or training, they're just resting. I've hung out. I got a friend who was a professional football player and I hung out with him when I was in Portugal and he's just training, playing or literally chilling out playing FIFA. And he's like encouraged to do that, like rest. So they're just doing three things. Practicing game day and then just rest and recovery. But we don't do that in our business. We're trying to be on all the time. So it's like treat it like a prefet. You're a professional athlete. Rest day is just as important, if not more important than your game day. It's like just need to schedule it.

You know, and even things obviously I know that stuff that you post as well, which I don't do enough of. Like, it's like scheduling fun and play. Because sometimes you can just be, and I find this myself, you can just be so hyper focused and just go work organized, structured. Boom, boom, boom, train this, that, okay, I might catch up with a mate, catch up with mate for, for dinner and then this. Then it's like rinse and repeat and yeah, go to bed at the same time, get up at the same time. It's just like this, this structured, structured life with not a huge amount of wiggle room, which I think for me that sort of works, but it's. I need to actually create more, more play and more fun. Whereas other people, they're the opposite. They gotta start doing some fucking work. They're fucking around.

Yeah, they're probably not listening to this podcast.

No, no, no. So, yeah, that's one thing you got to have. You got to have time for yourself, time for your development, time for your business, time for your mates, if you're a partner, time for them. And like, you got to be very. You do. Like, the more, the more you're doing, you can do it, but you just, you got to really run your shit very well and have very good self awareness so that you don't get pulled in different directions. And. Yeah, and I think that's something that, that people pleases I mean I'm, I'm more comfortable being a villain. So like I can sort of like you know, if I had to go to like yeah, partner's two year old's cousin's birthday on a Sunday, I'd just say it's not happening and I wouldn't be and I'd come across like, probably like to the family, ah, he's a selfish, he's this. But in the end I'm like man, if that, if that's my time to like recuperate or spend time with partner or like you know, take my dog, take him for a walk or do different things that allow me to actually fulfill what I need to do because I know like what I'm doing is tough and, and I'm now developing more and more empathy that. Pete, no one knows what the you do. They all think, oh I understand. No one understands what anyone else is going through. So you just got to be comfortable with like you know, knowing yourself, knowing you're doing the right thing for yourself. You don't have to be selfish but like you definitely don't just sacrifice yourself. Like I mean I'm not going to.

Two year old cousins people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know and just I think part of that as well is just being able to also communicate that probably not hide like a coward and go well like you know, it's not that I don't want to be there, it's just that it's, I've got very little time and I need to do X, Y and Z otherwise I'm not going to be good. And if someone's not happy that's like oh well that's something.

Yeah, that's where the communication piece is, is key.

That's on there.

A lot of guys don't know how to communicate it in a way where it's been understood.

Yeah. Because a lot of people just want to be liked and we do, we all want to be liked but in the end it's I think you gotta be. You can't control other people and having.

The courage to be disliked is a big one for the people pleasing nice guys.

Speaking of which, how one thing I've found is interesting recently when people, people project a lot of their shit onto you. So for example like someone like yourself, you're now you've built successful coaching business. You've and I know you'd work a lot harder than what it seemed like. You'd work behind the scenes, just image.

Drinking, te chilling.

Just, just doing retreats with the boys and Just chilling and just, just watching all the cash coming through, doing nothing. Yeah. So I understand like how much work behind the scenes is involved, but also you get to live a life that's on your terms which, and you get to do things that, in a way that you've got a lot of probably freedom in terms of how you're going to do things. Even though you'd work very hard and still trying to figure it out. How, how have you found cause you get to live a life like that. Have you found other people have treated you who, let's just say they haven't had the courage to probably have a crack.

I feel like anyone who hasn't accepted like who I am and how I'm showing up in the world have kind of just drifted out of my life. To be honest. I, I only surround myself now with people who are full supporting of me and what I'm doing, so. But initially it's it. There was people who I almost felt like would look down on it a bit and be like, you the fuck do you think you are, bro? And I know, I know that was, that was the case. Like, dude, I was 25, making like content about how to live authentic, fulfilling life. What the fuck does a 25 year old know? But I was doing it.

Were people saying that to you or is it something you felt without them saying to you?

I think it was something I felt for sure. No one actually said it to me. Yeah, I've had the same and you know, go on to videos online, you'll see people like projecting their shit on YouTube. But I don't take anything anyone says online. If someone doesn't know me, like I don't take anything they say to heart at all. If I do, there's something there for me to look at. It's always my mom and dad or someone close to me who will trigger me the most. But I know what I'm working on in my life right now. You know, I'm trying to be a little bit more organized and like just plan things ahead, especially with all the traveling and shit. Like one comment that my mum or dad would make be like you, you'd be more organized like. And I'm like, okay, yeah, that's there as well. Clearly there's something there for me where I'm like, I know that's an area of weakness for me.

That's the final frontiers getting over those two. Once you get over mum and dad maybe trick you, that's when you get fully healed. Yeah, I found that as well. Just put. Probably being more so since I've done content and more traveling more and. And doing different things, you can feel. Yeah. Like probably the same thing, like that whole. And I found it's very interesting that I didn't really see a lot of it before, but then now that. Yeah, you're doing a lot more traveling, you know. You know, when we travel, we work like me and Bernie. We, you know, love doing. It costs a shitload of money and I'm missing out on the opportunity cost of income back. Back in. Me working with Clint is enormous. And that's stuff that people don't. And I'm. I'm not getting. I'm not getting paid for that content or anything. I mean, I've got my primary business. But people. It's funny how. And that's why I've just learned, like, the more I've been doing it the last couple years, I've just gone. It gives a. What people think. You know what I mean? Because it's like they're gonna like, just see one element and go, oh. Because they're just projecting their. Oh, will you get to travel? It's like, yes, you can also travel.

That's right.

And if you can't, you know, that's. It's on. Or more importantly, why. Why would someone doing something bother you that has nothing to do with you. I can't get my head around that. Why would if, say, for example, someone bought a. A nice car and then that bothered you, or someone went on a. Went traveled somewhere or they did something or they did their wedding somewhere and that bothered that, like, that upset you. You always got to think it's got nothing to do with you. If something's upsetting you that has nothing to do with you, it's like, go do some work on yourself.

Totally. Yeah. And that's why, again, like, you just wouldn't. Don't surround yourself with people who project that onto you.

Yes.

Yeah. Energetic pollution. Really?

Absolutely. Yeah. How did you. How do you sort of coach your guys to find better circles when they hit that point of. They're like, look, that. That group of guys I was around or that those people aren't sort of serving me anymore and they're going to that next step and they're sort of. They're not at that level to be with that next group of people, but they're not with their previous group.

What I found is it's really great to be around a group of guys or a mentor or a coach who is only like two or three steps ahead of you. And then it's great to be around someone who's like 10 steps ahead of you. And sometimes the guy who's two or three steps ahead of you is the one that will open you up to the circle that you need to be in. So rather than thinking like, oh, like I need to, I need to work with Aubrey Marcus, I need to be like in his circle. Oh no, maybe you can find someone locally is two or three steps ahead of you and open you up to a whole community in your local area which like then expands your network and your ability to find men who are on your wavelength. You know, that's what I found. I feel with a lot of guys that come to my retreats is like, I'm only like two or three steps ahead of them. These guys are pretty dialed in, you know, switched on. But what when they come to an event, it's like, boom, there's your tribe, here's your soul family, it's here. And then like that stays with them. Or they join a men's group and they find a soul family and that connection and brotherhood opens something in them. So whether it's in person or online, I would say just like you don't have to look as far as you think.

I agree. I think it's good advice. Yeah. I think often people, they'll look for the guru as opposed to like, you know, literally a couple steps, which I think's a pretty. And that goes with anything with business or anything like that as well. Like you don't need to have some guys that made a 10 figure exit or, you know, I, I need him to teach me business. Like if you're just starting business, you just need someone who's in the. Gotta go. Yeah.

And the advice would be more relevant.

Yeah, exactly.

Right. Yeah. The guru has probably forgotten about the stage you're at and absolutely to give you like advice that's applicable to that phase in the journey. And I'm sure you've related with that in business. Like there's so many chapters and phases in it. If you're comparing your face to someone else's, you need to work up to that point, you know. So I found that particularly relevant.

No, definitely, definitely. I think it's good. And in terms of like high achievers because I know that's a group that you like, you like to work with the relationships. Do you find a lot of high achieving men, their pool of market for dating women, they get left with emotionally unavailable women who are more interested in financial intimacy due to Their lack of available time that they have.

Well, probably, yeah, the, the woman that you attract is a reflection of like where you're at in your journey, you know, so if you're emotionally unavailable for yourself, then yeah, you're gonna attract a woman who's emotionally unavailable for you.

If you're emotionally available but you're just very time poised, you know what I mean? Like say you're, you're, you're literally, you've done work on yourself, but, but you're doing 70 hour weeks, maybe 80 hours because you, you, you're, you know, you're that dude. Because I mean some people, they're wired for it. And not that everyone's, everyone's wired for that, but I mean, there are some people that they're, you know, it might be a phase of their life where they have to really put in excessive amount of hours. But yeah, what would your advice? Because I find if a lot of people who are in that category that they, they're not going to probably attract women that crave emotional intimacy. They'll forego that for one and think, oh, you can provide financial connection or intimacy.

It depends what the individual wants. If like a higher achieving man who's working lots of hours wants a woman to be there for him in that emotional way and support him in a specific way, he needs to get really clear on like what that is because she can only take him to that depth if he's able to support her and opening to that depth within herself. And then same thing with the woman. If the woman wants to find a man who can really like lead her and like hold her to all of these like new standards of intimacy, she has to examine all the ways in which she's denying that for herself. And relationships are the clearest reflection. Manners, they're so beautiful. But it depends on like, maybe there is a period in your life where you want to cry, you want to do 70 hour, 70 hours a week or whatever and be consciously out of balance because you know that that's, that's just what, what do you want to do right now?

It's a phase.

Yeah, it's a phase. But ultimately you can't be out of balance for too long.

Okay.

Yeah.

With. Do you feel most high achievers have low self?

I mean, it depends as their initial driver. Yeah, yeah, yeah. High achievers that are driven to achieve a certain level of success, it usually comes from some belief of not enoughness, which is something that I've examined. I'm examining it every single day. Like, where is this belief driving my behaviors, driving my thoughts and my emotions and my behaviors. Because the minute you can see it and it literally drives everything, then you can interrupt it and be like what if I am enough in this moment? What if I have everything that I need? What if I am taken care of? What if I am safe? What would that feel like? How would I operate if I came from that place that changes everything and then you get to play with like the frequency of enough. And then you can still be driven and a savage in business. But the energy, the place that it's coming from is like I'm good. Like I don't need anything from you because I'm good or I don't need this project to provide any specific outcome. It'll be nice, but I don't need it. And that like detached energy is what we all feel. And then when someone's coming from that place it we. They attract things effortlessly and we crush in our business when we come from that place, when we don't give a about like winning the client or we don't give a about how well the post does. It's just coming from our authentic expression. That's the stuff that crushes.

I find it's quite tricky. I totally agree the to delineate between sometimes ambition and whether it's coming from a place of me feeling like I need to. I need to be doing something as from a position of low self worth because often I, I find like I'm. I'm genuinely excited about stuff I don't feel like. But there is a time where I, I can definitely find myself if I don't regulate my nervous system or hit that tipping point of it goes from excitement, excitement, excitement, excitement to like then, then it becomes all right, it becomes the joy and the excitement goes from it. Yeah, I feel like that's definitely. And normally when that happens is when different boundaries have been crossed as well. Like between it might be like okay, I don't. Haven't seen. I don't catch up with the mates or don't do this or don't do a couple and they slowly happen over like a couple months. But I still. One thing I sort of still struggle with because I know my couple, my valleys are, you know, variety, growth, freedom. And I was saying earlier, like my difficulty is I can't just do one thing. You know what I mean? And I do like I have, I'm starting to realize more. I've got to still make that main thing my main thing.

Yeah, yeah.

And anything else has got to Be on the side even if it's exciting, you know, and it's like. And I see an opportunity and it's. I'm passionate about it. Where, but where I can get myself into trouble is that, that and I don't know sometimes whether it comes from a place of. I still think it is still a place somewhat of lower self worth or needing to, needing to achieve as to why I need to do more. Yeah but it comes to you. But it comes from a place of when I'm doing it often like it feels like it's ambitious and positive and passion.

That's a good distinction. What does excitement feel like in your body?

Excitement activates like creativity. It feels effortless. The hours go quick. When it's, it's light, it's flowy, it's not heavy. When I start feeling like things get heavier and I'm pushing, that's when I start going oh if I'm not, if I'm more self aware these days. But there are times I'll go if I start subconsciously throwing more onto my plate and it feels heavy. It's like ah, yeah, catch yourself. Yeah because I do. I still to the day I still do that. But I can catch myself quicker. But when things feel exciting it is like it just flows, it's creative. I get excited about the pit boys. Sometimes the, the focus can go away from. Yeah, your main thing.

Yeah but that makes it. That's the thing because that's where the, the, the attachment. Because this is in me as well and like I'm seeing it in you as well which is like the attachment to always being in flow and creativity and like that's when I'm growing. That's what, that's what I need to be in. Like I want to be in flow and creativity and that's, that's what excitement is. But what I found is when I'm. What would happen when I'm not in that place, I would start judging myself and thinking that like I'm on the wrong path or I'm doing something wrong, like I'm going backwards. And that's when the, the, the judgment of myself would, would create this downward spiral of internal frustration thinking that I wasn't worthy. And it was actually in the times when the excitement or the flow or the creativity wasn't there was my opportunity to practice being worthy because I'm just as worthy in those times. And that was the practice for most high achievers is having grace, having compassion and having acceptance. And that happens when you're struggling it happens when things aren't flowing. It happens when like whatever you're doing is not working. Okay, cool. Can you have grace and accept that it's not working and allow this emotional energy to process? Because this is, this. It needs to. You need to go through darkness to have the breakthrough. You know, the breakdown is required for the breakthrough. And it's in the, the winter, which is like the internal season of winter where you're contracting. We have to go through it. If you. I observe my years, like there's periods in my year where I go through a winter. And now I know, okay, it's gonna happen where there's a period where all the opportunities that I pursued, pursued during summer and all the new shiny things and the excitement in the flow, it's gonna come to an end and I'm gonna be left going like, oh, like, what's going on? Like, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm losing myself or whatever. That's the winter. And then you just be graceful, okay? Just slow everything down and let's wait for the clarity to come back. That, that's the thing, bro. If high achievers can master that, then it becomes. The transitions become smoother and less rocky and we can, we don't have to stay in the winter for as long as, you know, as long as sometimes you need to.

Yeah, no, definitely. And I think some, as you said, it's more about the high achievers. Generally. We have very, the highest critics on themselves and they'll have very low self compassion like me. I've never had even still, like, that's one thing I'm working on is being a bit more grateful for things and self compassion. I have more. I was shocking before. Like, I was. And that's like, that's like dad's, that's your father's voice and like your internal critic. And the thing is, you put that on other people as well. So like, I think it is, it's having self compassion, as you said, when things aren't good and accepting that winter. Winter doesn't mean, all right, put your hard hat on and just go and just make it work. I mean, there's elements, some things you have to. But there's other times you go, all right, what the fuck's happening here? Yeah, and just go, all right, yeah. And because a lot of what happens isn't actually got nothing. You've done nothing wrong. It's just circumstance. And a lot of times when things are good, you've done actually nothing right. You've got lucky And I think be able to accept, you know, a lot of good and a lot of bad has got nothing to do what you're doing and you just have to plug away and it's your journey. And. Yeah. And as I said, not get it.

Which is.

Which is which feds those seasons and not get attached to when things are good. It's like if someone's investing and then going investments doing this, I think, oh, that's baseline becomes this.

Yeah.

It's like that's not going to happen.

For every positive, there's also a negative. For every negative, there's also a positive. So it's like when things are going well, remember there, there are. There is a negative concealed in that. With all the extra income in a business, there's all the extra responsibilities of having to fulfill on the clients. You know, so it's. It's this. If you can come at it from a neutral perspective, I think it makes everything a lot easier to just go, okay, let's just enjoy this while it's here. And then when it's not there, cool. It's not here anymore. So, yeah, that's just a mistake that I made a lot when I started my business.

Yeah, definitely. And I'm like, I think as you go to the next iteration and things get bigger, bigger doesn't always mean better as well. Like a lot of people. And sometimes you go to that next iteration and it sounds exciting, exciting. And you got more staff and like, there's going to be a lot of pain in trying to figure that phase out because what got you there is not going to get you there. 100 and the person you are there is not going to get you there.

Yeah.

And even I'm at the moment like I'm hiring more staff and like always, like, be careful what you wish for. And I had like my quality goals. I want to do X, Y, Z, bang. Nailed them in the first.

Yeah.

And then I'm like, oh, okay. And then now it's like, it's real. You got X amount more new stuff. This is what you wanted.

Yeah.

And then now you've got to build the systems and your overheads are like dramatically more. You have. You've pulled back your hours so you can create time to spend more time on the business. So you're paying way higher overhead. You're bringing way less revenue in. And then you start looking at things going. You're going, do I want this? It's like. But that's part of like, for me, I was going through a bit of A not winter, but, like, sort of like going through that myself of like in the last sort of month going. Or do I just want to go back to doing what I was doing before? It was like, it was all right. It was a bit more measured, like. And they will. And that. That may have been right, what I was doing before, but you don't know until you go to that next iteration and you have that patience. And as you said, be compassionate. And I knew when I was doing what I was going to. Exactly. Everything is happening sort of how I. With a few unforeseen things. And it's just like, you just have to become that next iteration, a better version and just slow down and you're not going to go bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Like, you might go backwards for three months, four months, and then start to pick up. But, like, once you get the right pieces in the systems and more importantly, better up here will start to start to click.

Yeah. And ultimately everything is just a circle. Everything's bringing you back to where you started.

Yeah.

The external changes, but the internal is just one big circle. I've noticed that more. I grow and travel and expand and grow. It's like I'm just relearning the same lessons.

Yep.

Disguise differently.

Yeah.

You know, so it's. It's a sobering thought. I think it's refreshing. It's reassuring that it's already been figured out.

No, definitely.

And that's. The game of life is like, go off and then get lost again and then come back to like, oh, okay, none of it matters.

Exactly. You might, 20 years later go, yeah. Oh, shit. Actually, when I was in that phase 17 years ago, that was the purple patch. But you don't know until you do it. And that's the beauty of it. You have a crack and you see where you go in terms of. I find something I've only looked at recently is attachment speed styles. So I was reading a bit about, like, anxious and avoidant attachment style, and I very much feel like avoidant attachment style was. Was my. My cornerstone and would still be to a degree, my. My cornerstone of how I operate. Can you talk about the two differences?

Yeah. Avoidant would be the withdrawing, the pulling away when you're feeling like there's a disconnect in the relationship. Instead of reaching out, you just naturally pull away and want to avoid the conversation. Or avoid. Yeah, avoid the difficult. The difficult conversation. I'm like that as well. My girlfriend's like that too. So we know when we're going through a difficult Time in our relationship, we have a tendency to avoid having that difficult conversation. And then we just kind of like carry on with things, do our own thing. And then all of a sudden, six months goes by. We're like, hey, there's a bit of a. Something's missing here. What's going on? And as soon as we have the conversation, boom. Like, the intimacy and spark returns. The anxious person would be the one that's like latching on, going, like, what's wrong? Like, are you okay? Like, the one that's always clinging to, like, open up, let's talk to. Talk to me. Like, the one that won't kind of will feel uncomfortable or insecure by lack of attention or lack of intimacy. So a lot of that just comes back to how we initially related with our parents. You know, what kind of love we received from our parents and how they taught us. Our initial. Our first relationship is with our mom and dad. So we learn a lot about relating from that and the attachments that develop from that. As long as you're aware of it, you know, as soon as you see it, that's the mechanism, then you just know, okay, cool. Immediately have an uncomfortable conversation. If there's something that is getting in the way, or if I even goes with friendships as well. If there's someone, if I'm noticing there's a block between me and someone else, instead of avoiding just having a convo, have the combo because it will just immediately restore the connection. Essentially.

Yeah. If you got a mate, I've got a few mates. I think straight away, they'll always message you, always send things. And if there's something they're avoiding, don't just go quiet. And then it's hilarious. Like men. Because men, I find that definitely probably do have the tendency to be more avoiding to say. Would females tend to be more anxious?

I mean, yes or no? Statistically, yeah, probably. I think you could say that. I mean, men more just avoiding of their emotions in general. You definitely say that. Yeah.

Why do you think the anxious and the avoidant tend to marry up?

Well, if the man's avoidant, which, let's say if we're going off the statistics, then the woman is more likely to have emotional conversations because just by nature, the woman is more in touch with her emotions. So she's going to want to have emotional conversations to get the man to open up. But if he's not, you know, ready to do that, then it's actually going to do the opposite. The more you like, come on, man, open up, tell me what do you feel like? Talk to me. Like, the more you're pushing someone to open up, the less likely they are to open up. How you get someone to open up is detach from needing them to open up and just be the space to be like, you know, hey, like, I noticed this, or, hey, I'm here. Whenever you want to chat, I'm here. Or like, hey, I noticed you're just feeling a bit off these days. Whenever you want to have a conversation, like, you know where to find me. Like, just knowing that you're there as a space and when they're ready, they can, is the best way to approach it. But most women try to, like, force.

Their man to, like, they give them ultimatums.

Yeah.

As opposed to. And I know because when I. When I was writing into this and I was sort of talking about that as well, how, like, how to deal with an avoidant man is you, obviously, you give him support, but give him options. Like, exactly what you said there. As opposed to, you need to do this or we need to go to therapy, or it's like ultimatums, avoiding guys. We go, fuck it, I'm out, mate.

If I got forced to go to therapy, I would neck myself. That's just like, of course a man's gonna hate that. Why? Why would you want to be forced to do anything? Especially talk about. Oh, I've heard, like, bad stories of guys who've come to coaching and said that, like, sat in a therapy, couples therapy, and the therapist just, like, took the women's side the whole time and, you know, berated them for blah, blah, blah, and it's like, that's not it. That's not it. You know, it has to be consensual for both.

What do you think the ultimate therapy is for men?

Oh, I mean, I watched it. One of my favorite reels that came up, like, a couple of months ago was like, these two guys kicking a football on a wet, wet day and the soccer ball just like, they're just pinging past it to each other and skimming off the surface. And it's like the best form of therapy. I was like, honestly, for me, that's. That. That is a form of therapy. Kicking a ball with your best mate at the park and no music, just nature Therapy is, you know, for men. Have been in an environment where you can hang out in nature with your best mates, not need to drink beers and just have a laugh and chat and talk about what's actually going on, Talk about your relationship and get counsel from other men who are Older than you, men who are younger than you. That's. That's it, man. When I'm at the retreats, it's like, it's so evident, like, the amount of value you get from hanging out with men from Australia and Europe and America and different ages, some that have kids and some don't, that those conversations hold so much because you're like, oh, shit, okay. Yeah, noted. Like, we on the last retreat absorbed probably like years worth of wisdom in like a few nights just by being in around a fire and chatting, you know. So I'm a big advocate for that. Like men's circles and men's groups.

Definitely. Definitely the biggest shifts I've found personally and that I've seen are in retreats or circles or that sort of thing where you can either there's. There's a lot of depth that guys can access their own pain or someone else's pain or terminally they can just access. Play. Yeah, just be stupid. Play and just have fun. Like, I mean, that's probably something, you know, I said a few times. I play and having fun is something I haven't done as much of. Cause like, I've just very. Been very structured. But like, when we went to. When we went to Thailand with a few mates who went just on the. On the jet skis in the islands and we were just being on the jet skis and it was like, we're just kids again. It was like me and a couple mates and yeah, in particular, me and one of the other boys is also three kids. Highly stressful life. Like he lives in. Lives in London and. Yeah, same thing. Just to see us like both just get to be like kids in the islands, to go behind islands on the jet skis, it's just like, it was such a cool experience that, like, that you wouldn't like, you know, but you need to schedule that in.

You gotta prioritize it.

Yeah, you've got to prioritize. Rather than just typical bloke 100 conversations. Whether it's something real depth or just saying just fun or whatever it is, it's just that we're. We're craving it all and different people craving different things.

100.

In terms of. Do you find a lot of men go for someone like their mum?

Well, unconsciously we do, yeah.

Why do you think that is?

Because we're unconsciously seeking what's familiar. And then on a like, subconscious, spiritual level, we're trying to seek someone who can resolve those wounds, those. Those imprints that our mother left in us. So we attract someone who's like our mum to heal our mother wounds. And then the women attract someone like their father so they can heal their father wounds.

Can that be a good thing or a bad thing?

It's definitely a good thing.

Yeah, it's good.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Like, because it's what creates the match, you know, it's what creates the. Like, it creates the polarity because there's the part of you that's like, you've not owned and not looked at. And then they get to come and like, fill that void. But if you're needing them to fill the void, that's when it becomes codependent and attachment styles and blah, blah, blah, blah. So it becomes a good thing when you're able to notice the void, fill it in yourself. And then this person comes along and is like, just the perfect match for what you crave and what you need. Because it's like, it's that motherly love or it's that fatherly love, like, whether a woman will admit it or not. But, like, daddy energy is what she's craving. She wants someone to treat her like. Like, can take care of her like her dad did. If she had a good father. That is.

You know, I was gonna say, do you think you can be in a relationship with a woman who had a shocking relationship with her father?

Yeah, you can. But the ones that are gonna give you a lot of fucking chaos. Yeah, they're the ones. I have, like, friends who I'm like, man, did you check to see what our relationship like was a dad before you go deeper? Ones that don't end well.

So what are the things? Okay, what are probably the initial things you should be really looking for? Like, whatever. Like the top five things when you first meet for a guy, when your first mates. First mates a woman.

Yeah. The relationship with her father is huge. You learn so much just by that alone. And if she's got a good relationship with her father, then cool, you found a. Found a strong woman because she's gonna know her boundaries. She's not gonna put up with shit. She knows herself. She knows what's important to her. Like all that. If a woman doesn't have that, then you're gonna have to support her in developing that safety within her body. Like, she's not going to feel safe in her expression. She's going to, like, be really needing that safety from the masculine. So your responsibility as a man, then it goes up a ton. So I'd be asking that. I'd be looking at that. I'd be really just tuning into, like, how much, how well does this woman know herself? Does she know her needs? Does she know her desires? Is she in touch with like, pleasure in her life?

How would you question that?

I would observe. Just, you know, you could even notice like, how she eats food. Like, if she's like making sounds and she's really in touch with her body and she's feeling pleasure, you're like, cool. She's, she's feeling like she's a deep feeler. Awesome. Or how she dances. A woman that, like, it's got rhythm and can dance, you know, she's in touch with her feminine essence when she's like that, right? A woman who's a creator, like a creativity, like her creative expression is coming through in a healthy, fluid, effortless way. A woman who shut down her creative expression is usually someone who's disconnected from her emotions, disconnected from her, her essence. And we as men are craving that radiance. Man. The radiance is so attractive when a woman embodies that beauty, doesn't matter how old she is, that there is a radiant expression. It's so recharging for us just to be in, in around it, you know, it's like, oh, like a woman who embodies her beauty is what we should be striving for as men to create or unlock in our woman. It's like, how do we unlock all of her radiance? Because that just reverberates back onto us and vice versa.

What should a woman look for in a guy?

Oh, this is, this is, this is how. This could be a two hour podcast in and of itself. A man that has good friends around him. A man that's free of like, toxic vices. If you have a man's drinking or smoking a lot or, you know, using any sort of drugs on a regular basis, like, big red flag would avoid that. A man. I wouldn't say it's a red flag, but I would say, you know, you'd want to be careful, like, because his relationship with sexuality is probably very, you know, distorted, you know, so. And like, I don't know if there are questions that a woman's gonna ask you on the first day, like, do you watch porn? Like, and if, if not, like, okay, like he's good or he's solid because there's other factors. But a man that's able to communicate clearly, you know, is a big one. Like, if you, if we're just like looking at green flags here, man, that like, you know, who's, who's on the path can communicate his emotions clearly would be a big one. Just the words that he used when you ask him how his day was, how he's feeling, or, you know, you're trying to probe him, to open up. Can he clearly articulate himself? Because you can tell a man's level of clarity by the way he communicates. You know, if he's doesn't know how to express himself, then there's some big walls and guards back there that you're gonna have to help him work through. So none of that is right or wrong. None of that's good or bad. It's just, you know, you're ultimately. Yeah, you're ultimately gonna attract the, the match to the level you're at. So if you're judging them, you're also just judging yourself.

Definitely. And I think for me something's always understanding someone's values. I'll ask someone, what are your values? Yeah, and also what are your values and what, what do you want? What are you wanting in? Like what do you want your future to look like?

Yes.

If someone can't communicate that, male or female, I think it's really bad if a guy can't communicate that what he wants. But like for. That's gonna put the walls up with most women. But like for me, like I need to know like what someone's values are. And if I ask someone, oh, what are your values? And they. If, if they. Oh, I don't, I don't know. Like, I think that for me that's probably like, oh, well that's probably someone hasn't done not this right or wrong, but like for me, someone who hasn't done that at least started a self exploration.

But it's a good point because at the age we're at, or I'm at is like, I want to have kids in a few years time. If I'm dating someone and they don't value family and kids, well, that's. You're not the one for me, you know, so that's a really important factor, bro. When.

Oh, definitely. And if you're like, oh, well, you want to have a family in. Yeah, three to five, three to six years. And then you're meeting someone, she's like, oh, well, you know, I just want to build my career. Don't really want it. And if they get the answer, I don't want kids. I mean, if you want kids and you want. It's like you're you, you're choosing not to listen because you're looking at everything else and you're getting mesmerized by the rest of it. And then five, six years down the. Down the track, then you start getting pissed off. It's like you've got yourself to blame.

So true.

But.

Or someone like, you want to travel, but she wants to live in Perth, and you're like, yeah, oh, that's probably not gonna work.

No, that's. Yeah, it's a hard one, but I mean. And there's no right or wrong with values. I think it's just understanding what yours are. And.

Yeah.

In it, like, for me, if I meet someone. Yeah. If I meet guys or girls, like, all women understand their values. It's always like, oh, this person's. This person's got a little bit. A little bit of depth to them.

Yeah. They know themselves or they know aspects of themselves, which is key.

What's the most important question a man needs to ask himself?

Yeah, just that. Who am I? Like, who am I? Deeply, you know, and. And that's a question we ask ourselves or a man should be asking himself throughout his entire life. Who am I? Because until you're able to ask that question, you're not really clear on what you stand for. You're not really clear on what's true. You know, a relationship, in my opinion, with something greater than who you think you are is really the key to maintaining a life of substance and depth. And having a North Star or something that can bring you home no matter where you are, what stage of life you're in, if you know you have a relationship to something beyond what you think, then you can come home. Because I can wake up anywhere in the world and empty my mind and connect with an intelligence that's far greater than me, that's operating, growing the trees. It's like working through the Earth. It's like moving the planets and the suns. If I can connect with that intelligence and just invite that intelligence in and say, show me the way. Lead me, like, where am I to go? Then it takes all the pressure off. I can just surrender and be like, okay, cool. I trust. I trust. I don't need to trust anyone else. If I can trust that, then I'm good, I'm clear, you know, So I feel that's a. And who am I? Is the question that will bring you there, in my opinion.

No, I agree, I agree. And it's just a whole lot of processes and people helping you in experiences and redefining and.

Yeah, yeah.

It's not something people are going to get to very quickly.

Not at all.

But if they're committed to it. You'll get closer and closer.

Exactly, exactly. And that does change 100. Yeah. And you keep bringing the exact people and circumstances. You need to know that more clearly.

What do you. What's probably your most low hanging fruit recommendation for someone in terms of, for guys gaining deeper connection to themselves?

Just remove all the things that are disconnecting them from themselves. Start with the habits, because the habits are revealing the belief and then the belief is revealing the emotion. So if there's. This is a habit of reaching for something, say for the high achiever who's always reaching for stimulation and dopamine, say in the form of coffee or social media checking. Cool. What is the, what is the story or the belief that I'm telling myself that's causing me to do that? I'm bored. I'm not enough. I need to get more done. Like, you know, things are happening quick enough, I'm not progressing or I need to check to see if people like me like all of these. There's, there's something in the background that's causing that decision to be made. And if you just remove the habit and abstain and commit to abstinence, guess what's going to happen? You have to confront all of the emotions that you've been avoiding or running from. And I suggest like, do it. Do. I did a three day water fast in Tulum. I moved to Tulum for a month and just said, you know, I'm going to really confront all these aspects of myself because I feel like I'm losing myself a little bit in all these habits. Three day water fast, got an Airbnb, was on my own and I got to just like be with all of it. And on the other side of it was just like all this clarity, man, all this lightness and freedom that immediately gave me the answers that I needed for my business.

And the next direction sort of came up over the course of the three days.

Just like needing to fill the space or needing to like dull the edge a little bit or needing for that hit of stimulation or something in the form of food as well. Because that's like food was a big one for me. So whenever I fast I get so much clarity. So what comes up is just any sort of anything, any old avoidance mechanism is now gone. So it's oh, like I'm bored or like, oh, like I feel anxious or like, oh, I'm just, I'm just tension in my body. There's tension here. Can I just be with that? You know, without picking up my phone or something. You know, it's so simple, but it's like that. You get more from that than an ayahuasca journey.

Yeah.

It's amazing the things, in my opinion. Yeah.

So, brother, thank you for your time. That's been awesome. I know there's so many other areas we can go into and do multiple different podcasts, but where can people find you?

Well, thanks for having me on, man. And thanks to Bernie for, like, helping facilitate this as well. This is really special what you're doing out here, bro, and I'm really honored that I got to come on. And I've seen this come to life for the last two years since I've been working away, and you're doing wonderful things out here, so I appreciate it, man.

We'll have to come connect again when we're over in the States.

Without a doubt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take it quiet. Jordan Kanlish01 on Instagram would be the main platform.

Awesome.

Thanks, bro.

Our brother. Take care.

Peace.