Beyond Butterflies | When Fear Presents in a Relationship

It's just been magic, like literally how my life has been the last 2 years. I wanna say it's, oh, so many signs and synchronicities. And I guess you would say the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

They're everywhere. No, it's, I view that as like your personal tarot in a way. You know what I mean?

Like the signs and synchronicity. Yeah.

As like something to read and like, yeah. Uh, interpret.

Well, that's also just how you become like your own oracle, right?

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Right? It's, it's just, yeah. When, when we, when you pay attention and you see you see, I like to call it breadcrumbs because they are, right? It's like we don't, we don't know sometimes what they mean. And then like, we don't know where it's leading to. And then obviously looking back, we're like, oh, I see all the, the, the breadcrumbs, the dots going. Yeah.

Well, they're like little portals.

Yeah.

Because you don't know where they're going to take you. Right. You're just like, Ooh, I'm supposed to pay attention to you. Okay.

Right?

Ugh.

And that is walking the path of the unknown. Because walking the path of the unknown, it's— oh my God. I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's a constant test. It really is. Constant test of faith, constant test of surrender, constant taste of test of like Moving, moving forward without having the roadmap, just being like, I guess I'm doing this. I'm getting like, it's a different way of living. That's for sure.

It definitely is a different way of living. Yeah. No, I agree. But I mean, you can change the perspective to where it's magical, right? It's unfolding. It's like reading a book and you don't get to, you don't know what's happening next, but you're like, I wanna know kind of thing.

And you're like, how am I gonna be surprised this time?

Like what blessing is gonna find me now? And then that just, you're like, okay, okay. Like let's flow with this. Like, oh, you're gonna send me this. Okay. I don't know. You know what I mean?

Are you gonna— I love it and I love it, but it's also like, it's—

well, it pushes on that need to control and the anxiety and like, you know, like I would really rather just, you know, maybe slow it down, maybe just give me some more hints.

Right. Right. Let me know I'm gonna be okay. For the next 2 or 3 months.

But we already know we are. We are.

I know, but it, it, it, it's that, it's that constant dance, right? Of like your ego and your soul and like the known and the unknown. And it's, it, I do feel like, and I know this wasn't our original topic, but I feel like we're gonna get there. Um, I do feel like It's like us living this way, we are being initiated into living this way. Cause I do think that this is almost like the, I guess you could say the original way of how we're supposed to live, of not knowing, of not how, cause you know, we're, we're born to this society and They give us a freaking map of like, go to school, graduate, pick a career, do this, and then once you reach 30, you need to get married, right? And a lot of us do adopt that, and then we find ourselves not happy in it, right? And I mean, that's, that's where I got to. I'm like, you know what? Screw this map. I'm letting it go. I don't like it. I'm not following it. And that's when We are kind of left of like, okay, well now we need to like follow our own map or follow our own internal guidance system of like, yeah. And it is like this unknown but yet known, right? And I, I love that book analogy cuz you're right. It's like you're reading the book, you're reading it page by page, you're being present with it and it's like you do wanna know what happens, but you don't wanna like ruin it and skip to like page 300 and find you're like, no, no, let me enjoy the story. I mean, like, go, you know, go through it and then find out what happens once I finally get to page 300 and you're like, wow, that was so cool. Right. But it's hard. It's different when it's like us going through it. We're like, we wanna know, but we don't wanna know. It's, it's, it's that dance, right?

Yeah, it's definitely a dance. I think I'm in a place where I'm Most of the days I'm in trust and like surrender, but then I'll get flareups.

But absolutely.

When the fear or doubt or whatever is flaring, um, I just stay with it, right? And I'm like, okay, what? Oh, I'm, I'm insecure about this right now. Yeah. Well, what do I actually know? Like, I'll You know, I'm gonna be logical a little bit and like, oh, okay, I can actually take steps to solve this, like the job or stuff, right? Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, just like, yeah, let's do a group collab. Let's just get creative here. Let's combine our brains, see what's going on.

Right.

You were like, okay, I can do that idea. I can get, I can do this. And then it move you. That's that inner alchemy of transmitting that. That fear and doubt and like that kind of tension. Yeah. Get back into that ease and like softness of that surrender. And then, then it all just feels like caressing and just like, oh, oh, okay.

Yes. Yummy. Right? Um, yeah, it, I don't know. It's a con— it's, it's a constant dance, right? Cuz I, I get to those places too. Um, and what's interesting, I think, um, so I know I was telling before we went on live and by the way, I'm sorry, I have to like, I'm wearing like a boot for this leg and I have to take this off. So I'm sorry, I should have done that before, but you're okay. Um, so yeah, before we went live, I was telling Joy how like I did something to my leg and I do think there's, there were two meanings. So I, I kind of did see myself getting into the mode of like, oh my God, I need to like figure things out. Like that fire in me started to get activated and when it gets activated, like I'm, I'm very like, not maybe forceful, but like very like, I just, it's like an arrow, right? And I'm like. You know, and I just like, I'm like, okay, I need to just get it done. Like, I need to fit. Like, it's a very, I guess you could say it's a very masculine, forceful kind of energy. And I did start tapping into that a week ago, and then I slipped. So I think there's two meanings to that, right? That first meaning of like the divine being like, No, this is the old way. What are you doing? What are you doing? Don't be so forceful. Like, trust, trust. It's been like a huge lesson in trust, faith, and surrender. It's like, yes, take aligned action, but don't be forceful.

Yeah. You wanna know where the core of the reason you're doing the action is coming from.

Yeah. Right?

Yeah. If you're applying for a job or something because it excites you, because you're lit up. Because it's giving you ideas, fuck yes, that's a yes. If you're like, fuck, I need money, and then that's a no. And I'm panicking.

And I'm panicking. And I also need, like, to change the situation and blah, blah, blah, right? Yeah, definitely. I know it came definitely from that place of, like, anxiety, which I think, like I said, it was a double meaning, that first meaning of, like, Relax, like for me, truly, I am a more active person. I have a lot of that energy, that fiery energy. I, I like, for me, I need to move my body. I have to, it's, it's, if I don't like release this fire, like I'm not a person I can just sit the whole day and just peace and be zen. Like I, I need. To move my body. I've always been that way, even since I was young. Like, my mom signed me up for ballet. I was a horse rider, you know, like, I'm just like, always, right? And, um, so even like, because my leg is swollen, I can't move around. It's so— I'm just like—

You gotta channel it another way.

Right? I know, I know. But, um, it, it really is like the divine is like, just sit with it, sit with it, sit with it. I'm just like, why does this have to be my lesson? This is where I struggle the most, you know? And, um, I will share, cuz again, I, I was telling Joy before we went live about the other reason why this happened, um, was, um, So this happened on my left side, right? Left side of, um, my body. And intuitively, the first thing that came up was like, oh my gosh, my feminine feels unsupported. Because I, like, we can all agree that women, like, yes, yes, we can do it all, all on our own. We can, you know, be prideful of like, yes, we got this, we're doing it. Even like women who are like top CEOs or whatever, you know, like obviously, right? Like women can. But when you go back into the root of it, do they really want to? And almost every woman will be like, I'm tired of carrying it on my own. I'm tired of like not having that physical masculine container of, of, of taking that weight right off. And I, I knew that that was the That's what was happening in my body physically, of like, oh great, so my feminine does— because I have been, I have been feeling like, you know, it'd be nice to have like that support, you know, energetic support, whatever, right, of the masculine container, because I'm just tired of trying to figure it out, blah blah blah blah, right? And, um, and I, and Joy and I were talking how like I had a friend that this exact thing happened a month ago to her leg on the left side. And then I shared with her about like if she also was feeling that way. She's like, yeah, yeah. And then she knew 5 other women also within the same month that this happened to. And I was just like, this is cra— and she basically told me that, yeah, these women are also just doing it on their own. They're try— they're just like. They're treading, they're figuring it out. Yeah. They, they, you know, they're living life and sure they're enjoying it, but at the base of it, it's like, no, we're kind of like, we're just tired. Right.

Well, I think it's, um, you can be that internal structure, like, like that masculine for yourself. Right. You don't need to outsource that, but I think the hiccup there that a lot of women fall into is We were taught and shown how to do it the way a man does it. Mm-hmm. Even though we have an inner masculine, it doesn't fit society's, you know, structured way that because it doesn't follow our flow. Yeah. So that's where we're feeling that, um, kind of tension there. So that's why, like, for me, I like being my own boss, right? Like I told you, I'm like, mm, I'm a freelancer.

I like that. Yeah.

Because I can be in my flow. I don't mind doing tasks for money. I honestly don't. But, um, if, but I wanna work for somebody I light up about.

Yeah.

So that tends to be other spiritual workers or doctors.

Mm-hmm. Um, people, people on a mission. Yeah.

People who have, they're, they're helping other people. I wanna help them.

Right.

Yeah. So it's like, yeah, I can get behind this mission. I have no scruples making content for you or, you know, doing whatever. Right. But I want to do it in my flow. You know, I got all of these things going on. I'm a, I'm a writer, I'm a mom, I'm a content creator, right? Like, I want to explore all these things.

Yep.

But also provide for myself. So it's, yeah, it's relearning, or not relearning, but like forging your own way to create that. And that is masculine energy.

Yes.

Within ourselves. So it's like Um, I don't know, what do you, what do you think about that?

I mean, I agree with what you're saying because I, I, I'm, I'm the same way. I'm like, I, I need my own rhythm. And I feel like that is kind of what women are tapping into, right? Of like, we don't fit in that masculine structure, we need our own structure, right? Of, of honoring our own flow as well and our own cycles. But I have heard, Joy, and I do agree with this, of course we can tap into both polarities. Both polarities in both genders are like available in us, right? Obviously we can— we, we tap into it every single day, right? But I have heard, um, other people who talk about the same thing them say that, like, for, for example, for a woman to fully, um, experience and be in her feminine, she actually does need that masculine container, right? Again, it doesn't have to be a man, like, you know, if someone is into the same— we all carry that polarity, right? Um, one person is obviously going to be tapped into the feminine, one person is going to be tapped into the mask, like That's just how— that's that yin and yang balance, right? But, um, yeah, they were saying how, like, you know, for example, for a woman who's more feminine, like, she can truly tap into her feminine if she has that masculine, that physical masculine container that allows her to kind of, in a way, I guess, maybe subconsciously, because again, I can't speak since I'm not in that, but to, to fully drop into that. And then vice versa as well, right? Because when we hold those polarities, it's like, oh, well, we can let go of that part of ourselves, right? Because this other individual got it. And I, I do think there is like a, just a craving that we have. And I think that's a natural thing for us to crave that, to want that, you know, to not want to hold it all together, right? Especially like, especially women. Like, I And I can't speak for men cuz I don't know what they truly feel, but I know, like, I just, I've spoken to so many women and it's like, yeah, like of course we're doing it, we're making it work, you know, we're getting up and whatever. Right. Like they're holding.

I think a lot of that is, it's hard to, let me try to, I got a lot of thoughts.

Hold on. They're very good at bro.

Um, well now they're all fading, but we'll see what comes back. Okay. But, um, we don't wanna base it on, to me it's like all my previous relationships are blueprints for what obviously did not work.

Yes.

Right. Um, and I, when I reflect, which I've been doing, this is like a whole year of reflecting basically. It's like, ah, I can see where I moved into the masculine and took over. And then I felt like I was holding everything, right? The emotions, the logistics, and, you know, the household stuff and, you know, trying to do everything else. He's making the money. I'm doing everything else. And that's heavy. Yeah. Obviously that's a bad blueprint, right? That's not how we want. That's not what we're craving. That's not what you're talking about.

Yeah. Yeah. So, um, it's all, it's energetic.

It is energetic. Yeah, it is.

Yeah.

And when you are in that zone, it's not that you lose your masculine, because I have experienced it, and it's, you just lead with your feminine, and it's natural because it just, it's like it's getting pulled out of you in a way. Um, you don't even, you don't have to like think about like, oh, I need to be feminine about this. No, it's just, oh, I just wanna say this thing, or I just wanna express it like this. Or it's, you just naturally, if you're a, yeah, that's just how it's, you just wanna be and it feels good. And you're right, you have that structure and it's almost like you can just play in it. You can swim around in it. Mm-hmm. Um, you can express in it and you feel safe expressing, and I think that's something in probably our old, you know, trauma bonding, whatever freaking relationships we were in, right?

Where we're projecting it, you know, it's all just, it's just all coming up a lot.

And we've all been in them, so no judgment, right? But, um, we know that's not what we want. We don't ever wanna go back to that, right? We know we deserve more. And the men are figuring that out too, right? They're getting divorced. They're figuring it out. That wasn't fun for them either, right?

No, but, but, but you know what, Joy? I do feel like they're a lot slower.

I think it, to us, maybe it appears that way, but I don't think they really are.

I don't know. Cause I, I feel like a lot of us who are on this path, right? Again, I'm not speaking to every single. Woman, you know, but a, a lot of women who are on this path, I just feel like, I think it's natural for us to be alchemists.

Yeah.

Like, you know, think about, you know, like even when we start, you know, getting our periods and dealing with period cramps, my Lord, like, uh, we're We're alchemizing that, you know, and then there's different obviously things that come up in us and blah, blah, blah. But I think, I don't know, I think it's just, I, I, I've always believed that women are leading the way in this, leading the way to like seeing the changes and blah, blah, blah, blah. Not saying that men don't do a part, but I don't know. I just feel like men drag their feet.

I think it's, well, I've, like I said, I've been reflecting a lot. Some definitely drag their feet. And if it, to me, it's not, if you're confused, if it, if you're unsure, don't even continue. Don't even continue that. There's, because that's got distortion in it. Wait, what is the—

just clarity. What do you mean? Like if the woman is confused or the man is confused? Yeah.

Well, as a woman, um, if you're experiencing confusion around a relationship, I'm like, well, I don't understand. Like he did this, but then he did this, right? And they don't match. So what it— I want it to be that, but then he did this. So do I just disregard, you know, like, didn't you get in that Fuck that. Just fuck it. Um, I would recommend rewatching or reading that old— it's old 'cause I'm old, I suppose— He's Just Not That Into You. Uh, do you remember that movie? Because like, if there's confusion, yeah, that's what that— then, then he's not coming at you at the way you want or deserve. Right?

Yeah. Even if you like him.

Yeah. No.

Yeah. But you know what? This is— I'm, I'm, I'm now seeing the thread how we're gonna get, get to this topic. But, um, which I love. I love, cuz it's like we don't plan for it. It just naturally happens. Um, it— I've, I've also been actually reflecting Joy, on this past year and the masculines that I have come into contact with. And I have to say, the ones that are walking the path, that they're, they're healing or healed or what— and again, I get this journey is like we're all on different points of this, like, healing journey, right? Some people are just starting, some people are a little bit further ahead, some people are even— for, like, it really depends. And I've met quite a few that are, like, on different points of this journey, but I have to say that they're quite disembodied.

A lot, a lot. Yeah. A lot of them are.

But, but it's been like the ones that are on this journey, cuz I've also met ones that aren't like, just, just because like, for example, I volunteered at an event or whatever and like, you know, I could, I could, you know, you can tell who's kind of on this journey, who's kind of like, maybe they know of it, but they're just like, what? And I'm like, how are you more embodied? You're more embodied. And you're more like, I don't know, like emotionally available, emotionally transparent than these ones that are on the healing journey, you know? And maybe that's why they're on the healing journey to heal that, right? And, and they just haven't been initiated deep because that's why I think these, those men meet the like healed conscious women because what I've noticed and we've talked about this before, Joy, is we end up being a tower moment for them. And we're like, what?

How?

Like, I thought you're healing. I thought you're doing the work. And this is where I think what I mean, men are dragging their feet because, again, not all of them, but they'll meet a conscious woman, they'll meet a conscious healed woman, and they'll be like, whoa, I thought I dealt with this fear. I thought I dealt with this wound and blah, blah, blah. And because women are mirrors. And I mean, all of us are mirrors, but like, especially a healed woman, like, they'll be like, whoa, wait a minute, am I actually ready for this? Am I actually da da da da da? And then like, you know, they retreat, they back off, and blah blah blah blah, right? And I'm just like, wow, like, it's, it's interesting to me how like these men that are healing on the spiritual journey, da da da da da, They, they have like quite a lot of work still. And I don't know, maybe you did found different, but that's just what I've been finding when I've reflected this past year. I'm like, all of you healed spiritual men that I have met, they've, it, it's a lot more work that they still need.

One thing I've noticed, um, over the men I've met over the past year is, um, if they are disembodied, they have the knowledge, but it's moving it into their body.

The body. Exactly.

And they either write that off, right? Like, I don't even fucking do that. Or like they think they have, but then their actions and stuff are not showing it. Right?

Yes.

And you're like, um, something's off here. I'm confused.

Right?

I'm confused. Your words are saying this, but your actions are saying this.

It's, yeah, it's like they should be aligned, right? Yeah.

But then when you meet one who is aligned, you're like, oh snap.

But that's what I get it.

He's got it. He moved out all that. Beautiful fucking knowledge, all the books he's read, it's in, he's living it. It's embodied. I can see it. The actions are matching the words. The energy is matching. I am not confused. I can ask for clarity and not be scared of the response.

Right.

Oh, I can settle into this. I can be more feminine now. I can express myself. And it doesn't even need to, I'm not even talking to, it doesn't even have to be romantic. This could be just friends.

Yeah.

Right. Um, but it's that polarity that we're speaking of. And like, when you, like I said, I've experienced both the confusion and the non, and it's like, oh, fuck, let's just pause and like, like imprint this. I don't fall, you know, I don't fall for that confusion again. And you know, it's so beautiful. At least. For me, Alexandra, is I'll stop, like, they, this sounds really bad. No, but like the new ones I, I meet are better. Not, that's not better. That's not, I don't mean that. I just mean they are embodied or, you know, like I'm not seeing the same mirror over and over is what I'm trying to get at in a very horrible way, but I'm getting there.

But can I, can I ask you though, are the ones that you're meeting that are embodied, are they under the umbrella of spirituality and healing and, you know, all that?

Yeah, most of them.

They are. Really? Interesting. But, okay, well, I guess there's different levels of entering that space.

Some of them haven't been in it very long and then others have been in it, you know, on the journey for, As long as me, if not longer.

So, hmm. Interesting. Interesting.

And then some of them that are unembodied have been on it for like 20 fucking years. Right?

Yeah. It, it, again, it is interesting that you say that cuz in a way, yeah, in a way our, I mean, again, who knows? For me, like what experiences will come in, but I've just noticed my own, what I've been witnessing and meeting is like, whoa, all these, like, again, men that do call themselves spiritual are on this journey and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, they, they talk the talk, but to walk the walk, oh, that's so different. And, and like they'll sometimes pretend that they're walking the walk, but again, like once they're met with a healed, conscious woman that starts reflecting or, you You know, they start seeing their own stuff. They're like, hold on. And then they kind of retreat before you get to see what they're still trying to hide and not wanting to look at. And then I've met, like I said, I've met men that I don't, I don't think they would actually put themselves in that category. Maybe they're open to looking at their stuff and I don't know, healing and whatever, but like, they're, I don't think they would proclaim themselves to be spiritual or whatever. They're just like, yeah, okay. And so much more embodied, so much more clear, so much more like, like I said, just, I guess, emotionally transparent, like clear, just clear. You're not confused with them. And like you said, it doesn't have to be romantic. It could also be platonic. Cause I've experienced this with, with a friend of mine and I was like, I feel safer with you than some of these other men that I've met that are spiritual.

Well, I think of that as more maybe psychological, right? Or maybe they've done therapy or whatever, right? Like I was an atheist when I went in and did therapy and I was working on myself doing all the inner work stuff as a freaking atheist, right? Like it doesn't, yeah, yeah. There's no prerequisite. You have to be spiritual, right?

Yeah.

Um, Cause I've, yeah, I've met ones who, you know, were not as woo-woo as me.

Yeah.

But, um, yeah, they don't know what I mean when I say chakras or, you know, like they're like, whatever, right?

Whatever floats your boat.

But, um, but I can tell, yeah, they've done the work. They have emotional intelligence. Right. Um, they at least have that they're embodied and to us as women, it feels safer and everything.

Yes. Yeah. Like I can tell you for me, I'm really happy I got to experience that difference because I felt it in my body.

I really— Oh, definitely. You feel it. Like for us, it's visceral. It's all of it.

Yeah. Yeah. And when I was with this friend, I'm like, Whoa, my body feels like it can really, like, it was actually a very strange thing for me. And I guess it was kind of mirroring to me how much I, I guess, yes.

Hold your nervous system.

Yeah. And how, and again, how women have been programmed to behave, how, um, we constantly have to look out for ourselves and blah, blah, blah. Right. And it's, it was really, it, cuz I have to tell you, like, he's much younger than me and I, I was like, you know, still in that frame. But I, I guess it was, it started to be a subconscious thing. He started doing things where I was like, wait, I can relax.

Mm.

Oh, what? And I, I actually caught myself, my nervous system kind of being like, yeah, you can feel the shift, right? Yes. It would relax.

And you know what? They can too.

Oh, like they're nervous? Yes.

Yeah.

For, oh, for sure. 'Cause I noticed whenever I got tense, it's like he, and maybe this is subconscious 'cause I feel like this is just who this person is. He would shift more into like, don't worry, I got you type of thing. And then I would like relax again. But then because I'm not really used to that, I would kind of go back into like trying to hold. And then he, it was really freaking in. I've never experienced that. And like I said, with these other men, it would kind of be like I didn't really have the space or my nervous system just was telling me that like, no, we can't do this, right? We can't fully relax. And like, I never got a chance to just open and just breathe, right? Um, I, it's, I don't know, it's been really freaking interesting. First, I, I gotta say, like walking this journey and like coming back into your feminine. Because again, I know we've talked about it, it's like we do become so magnetic where it's like we attract everything to ourselves, everything. Like the, I guess you could say, the disembodied men and the embodied men. And now it's just really interesting to feel within your body, just, again, you, you can map it. Yeah, right?

You'll remember what it feels like and then You're like, oh, oh, that's the confusion, right? Right. Or, oh, this is— oh, this is good, right? Oh, okay, green flags. Let's, let's, you know, proceed in this way. But yeah, and it's—

and I have to say, it's not a look thing at all. No, like, it's not our physical body at all. It's a nervous, like, it's crazy. It's a nervous system thing. It really is.

Oh, the way we soften and everything. Yeah. Um, are you just feeling like attraction?

Well, attra— yeah, I guess attract, like, cuz for example, I guess you could see, I guess by society standards of what is deemed to be a masculine man. Right? Maybe works out at the gym, looks whatever, right? But then it's like you, when you're with him, you can actually feel your nervous system not relaxing, even though he might look the part of a masculine man that should have it. And it's like, but your, your body knows versus someone who maybe is not that like conventional, but if they got it. Again, your nervous system knows, and that's what I mean to say. It's, it's not a look thing, right? And I'm mentioning that because I have— there's certain creators and I guess coaches on the online space, and there's this one guy that I, I was following because at first he, he was saying certain things. I'm like, okay, yes. But then he started saying other things about like looks and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, dude, no, you don't get it. It's not a look thing and it's not you having a six-figure income and like, right, cool. All those things are the extra, right? Those, all those things. Sure. On top of all that. Sure.

Cool.

Whatever. But to actually hold a healthy relationship and to maintain a healthy relationship, it has nothing to do with how you look like and all the external things about you. Like even if You know, you having a six-figure job or not, you know, like obviously I'm not saying be a completely lazy per— like, cuz that's not attractive in terms of like men who, for example, are not working at all. Right. And they're just sitting on the couch and just the, the, you know what I mean? There's a certain, it's like you gotta be living life and do, but do you know what I mean?

I.

You know what I mean, Joy, right? I could—

I get what you're saying. Um, well, he needs to have a purpose.

Yes. A direction. Yeah. Right. Because that, that is—

it doesn't really matter how it manifests. Yeah. Um, is he— is, is he secure in himself? Right. Is he secure in his reality?

Yes.

Am I?

Yeah. Right.

Um, is he gonna try to pull me in to fill in holes for him. If I, you know, I finally fucking learned all the lessons. I ain't doing that shit no more myself. So I don't wanna, um, I don't wanna like get in that again. So you'd feel into all that and then feel like, no, he's not. It's not, maybe he's doing something unconventional, but yeah, that's his purpose.

Okay.

Okay.

But you know what? You can roll with that. You can tell.

It's—

oh, see, this is another thing I have been exposed to as well, is— oh, that's interesting. It's coming to me now because I'm like, oh, that is. So I've met men also, and again, they were kind of like on that spiritual journey, healing journey, yada yada. And a lot of them actually did have, you could say, like successful careers, whether they work for themselves or they work for someone else. Like, you could say that, like, they're earning well. Um, and I always felt, again, it was a feeling thing. I could actually feel that they weren't happy in what they were doing, even if they told me, yeah, yeah. But I could feel the dis— again, oh yeah, you can feel it.

Yeah.

And, and you could even tell by their own light of like how much they're shining or they're not. And yeah, I remember one was actually honest. He's like, yeah, I don't know. This is like ending for me, but I don't know what to do next. Another one was like, no, I really like what I— but I could feel, I could just feel like there wasn't this like click, you know? Um, versus, like I said, like the friend that, that I have, and he's doing something completely unconventional, maybe for some people that would think like, but he loves, and you can tell, like you can, he like lights up completely when he's doing it. And I'm like, man, that's attractive. Actually, that is what's attractive because you can tell he absolutely believes in what he's doing. He loves what he's doing. He's excited about it. He's, he's like, on a mission, right? And it doesn't matter if maybe, again, I don't know if maybe he's not earning as much as like these other men who maybe were a CEO or whatever, right? But he, something in him wakes up when in him, when he's like doing that thing, you know? And so we, we can tell, we can tell if someone's lit up by what they're doing or if someone's embodied or disembodied, like it's, it's It's so interesting, especially when we ourselves become embodied, right?

Oh yeah. And I think I, I'll be honest, I think I thought I was embodied more than I was for quite a while, at least several months there. Um, it wasn't that I wasn't, but I'm at a deeper depth of it now.

Yeah. Yeah.

So it wasn't like I was lying. But when I reflect back at the growth, I'm like, oh, should I have been saying that? Let it slide. Like, I wasn't wrong, but, um, I still was plugging some holes there and still learning these lessons and integrating it all, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But again, that's the journey, right? That's even for myself. Like, I, I know I've definitely become more embodied, there's probably more layers. There's more like, definitely there's more to discover with that. And I think that also comes when you do enter that conscious and healthy relationship, you know, you then you discover even more layers of that and like, oh yeah, you have more doors to explore. Exactly. Exactly. And. And again, our, our original topic that, you know, wanted to dive into is coming into that relationship. And again, I'm, I'm just finding, and I guess this goes more for like the men who are not fully embodied, maybe, maybe they're, maybe they're partially embodied, right? Either not, maybe they're partially, you know, they're on the healing journey. I feel like, and I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, maybe they don't think this, but it almost feels like they might think or believe that when they come in contact with like a conscious woman and potentially, you know, have a relationship that it should feel like fairy dust and rainbows and butterflies and like that there's never going to be anything that comes up. Up, you know. And I think I've mentioned this before, and I don't remember where, probably on my YouTube, where I was like, I don't really understand who came up with that. I understand having a calm nervous system, but I think it's wrong to think that when you enter a dynamic with another person that wounds aren't gonna come up. Like, entering the relationship is just another initiation to deeper layers of yourself, both within the woman and the man. And that literally means healing in partnership, meaning unlayering whatever's coming up in you, right? Like the, the, it's, you know how like some people say, oh, you gotta heal before you enter a relationship. There, there's— it's like a yes and no type of thing. Like, yes, you should be doing work on yourself if you have deep wounds, of course, but it doesn't stop there, right? It continues in relation, it continues in partnership, right? I, I forgot what I watched the other day, but it was There was like a reel or something that was saying how our nervous systems are actually wired to heal in partnership.

Oh yeah. I completely agree with that.

Like, of course you can do part of that on your own and unpack. So like, I feel like the healing journey, when you do it on your own, it's almost to become comfortable with Feeling the uncomfort, feeling the wounds coming out, feeling like being okay with staying with yourself as you're unpacking stuff. Because when, if you can do it with yourself, that's when you can do it in partnership. But if you can't do it with yourself, you can never do it in partnership because you've never held the space within yourself to look at your wounds, to look at the darkness, to look at the shadows, right? But Once you become familiar with that, with yourself, it becomes easier to do it with another per— is it gonna, like, again, easier, not meaning that it's gonna feel like butterflies and rainbows. No, meaning like you're, it's, you're gonna feel the discomfort, but you're gonna have to just be with it, knowing that you're not gonna get burned by it. It's an invitation for deeper layers of yourself. And this is why I think like women are just more brave to be with that, to enter that, to look at that. And men tend to be like, wait, I felt like I did all this work on myself and that I should be healed and I shouldn't be feeling wounds coming up in me, right? And, and And I think they just have the wrong idea of what that means. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, I'm, I'm hearing what you're saying. I'm thinking, I think I told you in our chat that I'm meeting people now who reflect the healing, right? We're reflecting each other's healing. But to me, that would be the exact kind of person I would want to do the deeper healing with. Right? If we're reflecting our growth at each other as well. Um, and I think part of maybe what that you need to heal first type of mentality is it got twisted, but we, we know that. But maybe what the heart of it is just what you were saying, get used to clockwork, you know, really looking at yourself. I love that term, clockwork orange eyes, if you've ever seen that. Movie poster, um, because then when you are in partnership, um, or in community even, right? Like in a group, we want to even expand it further. Um, you're not gonna freak out, right? When they show you their rawness or when you express your own, right? You're just gonna have that container of safety where it You know, you're probably going to get emotional. It's going to look just like it does in person, like with yourself, but it'll be full of love, full of compassion, and you just move through that together, right?

Yes.

Humans are relational, right? We can go into hermit mode, but we're not meant to be hermits forever. And I'm a Sagittarius, so I mean, not my sun sign, but—

Are Sagittarius meant to be more hermit or I don't know?

Well, they're very independent.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

So that's like Aquarius as well. Yeah.

Well, there's, yeah, there's a lot of independence out there, but, um, and like adventurous and like, I just want the truth. That's Sagittarius.

Yeah.

Yeah. But, um, where am I going with this? But, hmm.

Yeah.

I think the whole butterflies and stuff, that to me is nervous system. Things, right?

Um, I meant like, I meant like, um, I feel like some people think that when you enter, like, let's say you've done, you've, you've been doing the work on yourself, right? And then you meet somebody who's also been doing the work on yourself, on themselves. I think there's a misconception of like, oh, it's going to be like Buttery smooth, like you enter this thing and it's just gonna like fit like, mm, perfect.

Here's what I'm learning. Depends on the speed. If, if either side is rushing, that's gonna cause friction, right? Because why are you rushing? There is absolutely no need to rush.

Yeah.

They're not going anywhere, right?

Yeah.

This is a slow burn. This is to be enjoyed. This is to be savored. This is like a very long foreplay, right? Um, it's not even, I don't even mean that erotically, right? I'm just saying like, this is getting to know each other. This is, if you maintain the pace in that form. To me, it may not be butterflies and rainbows, but it's gonna have that calmness and that softness, and you're just gonna, but that requires both people to go at that pace and to be in tune and to follow the cues. And I know for myself with that fucking Sagittarius energy in the first house with all these other fucking planets in there, right? It's just one way to put it, right? But I know for myself, that fire, I, I get excited, right? Like, oh my word, look what I found.

Look at this.

Look at this.

I want this. I want this.

And then it's, there's nothing wrong with that, per se.

I mean, I, I resonate with that completely.

But it's also like, calm down, girlfriend. Like, like, why are we rushing? 'Cause we're excited. Okay, well that's cute and adorable, but what, what do you actually want? You wanna be saver. Like, I can't seem to say that word, but you wanna be—

No, no, I, I know. I know what you mean.

You know, like you wanna feel it. You wanna like get in to be sensual, right? Like let's, let's do the, in this way. And then you're like, oh, oh. And then that pulls out that, for me, the feminine. And it's not that the fire's taken aback.

See. It's actually rolled out.

Yeah, it's like kind of like making string, you know, like you're taking that cotton and you're just, or the wool, and you're just fine-tuning it. You're making it silk. I don't know. That's probably the best way to do it. Like we're taking this, whatever silk is before it's silk, this caterpillar stuff and we're like turning it into silk.

No, I—

This analogy's going sideways, but—

I mean, I get what you're painting. I totally get what you're painting. Um, I, you know what, I do agree with you. Absolutely. Right. But there's also a level of like communication that needs to come with that because again, I'm, what I, what I mean is like I feel like some people think when you come together, even if you're doing it slowly, right, you're savoring the process, it's like they think no wounds should be coming up. Like there should be nothing that comes up in terms of like, yeah, when you, when, when you're in that dynamic, that maybe for women, your abandonment wounds won't come up, or for men, I don't know, some avoidance stuff won't come up. Like, no, those things will come up. Like, let's not kid ourselves. Yes, you've done a lot of work, but it's like, it's, it's, I almost like to think about it this way, Joy. Us doing the work on ourselves, it's like the training grounds.

Yeah.

Right? It's like you're preparing yourself. I don't know, even like before battle, it's like you're, you're preparing your body, your mind, your everything before you enter the actual thing, right? And again, this could go for anything, but we all know that before you do the actual thing, those things are gonna come right up. And that's when it's like, have you actually done the work? To be okay with those things coming up while you're doing it, right? And another analogy that's coming up to me is like, maybe you've never done public speaking and you, someone is like, can you present this? And let's say you do want to, right? Maybe you, you do wanna be on stage and it's like you go through that prep work of, you know, I don't know, preparing your presentation, rehearsing lines. Embodying that moment when you get on stage in front of like, I don't know, 20,000 people or whatever, but we all know the moment that actually comes to fruition where you're right, you're about to enter the stage. This is the real deal. We all know all that shit comes up. We all, like, let's not kid ourselves, it all will always come up because it's like your first time actually doing it. And it's like, okay, can I breathe through this? Can I remember the times I've practiced? And it's like you have to be in that discomfort, you know? It's anything new that we're entering, right? Cuz this kind of relationship is gonna be new. It's always gonna be an expansion of yourself, and that expansion is uncomfortable. Always.

It's making me think of swimming, but as in a sport. Well, I was a swimmer. Or like track because you practice, right? Like any type of sport, but I'm mainly thinking of like individual sports because that's the context we're talking in. And then yeah, come race day, day, are you going to do that flip turn right? Are you going to hand that baton right in the race, right? Like, are you going to jump over that hurdle without falling on your ass, right? Like, you got it in practice, right? You've, you've done the motions, your body has the, the movement. Then you get the anxiety and the pressure. Everybody's there, parents are in those stands type of thing, right? And it can get overwhelming, and that's when you throw it out. It's not that you can bring it back, right? And I, I think that's when, to keep with the sports analogy, you do multiple races, right? You do multiple meets in track.

Yeah.

Right? You, you go to different places, you chall— you know, you challenge other teams, right? And then it becomes more embodied. You don't throw it out at the first time when that gun is shot, right? Yeah. And you're like, no, I know how to do this. I know how to do that flip turn. I can do this, right? And then, yeah, you kind of build that. It's still individual, but you're practicing on another level.

Yes. Yes. Right. Yeah.

So that's why I'm like, make the friends, like make the connections. And if it goes bad, it goes bad. But you're, it's like going to the meet. You're like, I wanna like, like, I'm gonna try this and we're gonna see. And I think I learned this. I think it always is gonna start a, a little wobbly because Yeah. You're, you got two nervous systems and two energies and you kind of have to feel it out. Right.

Even you and I, even you and I, um, everybody we connect with.

Um, yeah. And even, even people we already know, cuz we're growing at such a rate.

Yeah.

When we reconnect like with family members and stuff, you can use that. Like, how am I reacting when my uncle says that thing that always just gets me, right? Am I gonna snap at him like I did last year at Christmas, or is this year I'm gonna take a different route? Like, you can use those as mirrors for growth too, right? Um, the world is your oyster.

Yes, yes, absolutely. But you know, again, that takes a very conscious, a very conscious and self-aware person, because it, it is funny as you're mentioning all these sports things, like, again, for me, like, as a rider, even, even for me, it's like, before you enter the ring for the show, like, obviously you practice all the time, right? With your coach and lessons. And it's like, funny thing is those nerves don't go away when you actually enter the ring and you're like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. I'm like, I'm like, can I do this? Can I do this? And, and that's, and that's kind of what I'm What I'm saying is like, I think there are certain people who think, oh, if I've healed enough, well then this should just be buttery smooth. And it's like, no, no. And it doesn't mean like your nervous system is gonna be like, can't— no, like your nervous system can be calm, but it's still like wounds are still gonna come up. There's, they're still gonna. Want to, because again, I, it's a different thing, I think, to heal in partnership, you know?

I think it's what you're healing in partnership is relational wounds.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. So that could be around intimacy. It could be around vulnerability, which are very similar, right?

Yeah.

It could be, um, I'll catch myself. I won't ever say anything to the person, but I will catch it in myself first and be like, hmm, that hit me a certain way in my body. Is— did that man mean it that way? Or is this a past, you know, or am I reacting out of a past, you know, thing I've lived? And so I will sit with it before I ever say anything to him. And I will decide, oh, no. He said that in a way that made me think of this, but the energy feels different.

Yeah.

Right. And I know this person and they've never meant it in that way it was meant in the past. So this is a me thing, but I still might wanna say this, right? Like, hey, you said that thing and that's, you know, that triggered me in a way, but I'm dealing with it. You know, you can, you can communicate that or you can just. Deal with it yourself and move on, right? But, um, there's other relational things probably around sex, prob— you know, like very lot of it, we could have a lot of issues around that and like being seen and being, you know, feeling desired, all of these things. And a lot of it's just expressing. And I think when you go slow, you can express those slowly. You're not bombarding each other with like, well, this is what I'm working on. What are you working on? Let's just pile it in this big dump and just look at it.

Yeah. Obviously, obviously it's, it's a, the unlayering process is supposed to be like slow and meticulous and just, absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, there's a lot actually in a relation that you gotta unpack, right? And. Again, I just, it feels like for men, it's like they're just more scared of that than women are.

I think they're more reserved. They need to feel safe enough to open up.

Yeah.

And if they don't, they're not gonna do it. But I mean, like, we might do it anyway cuz we tend to have more people pleasing tendencies, I think. Um, just culturally, but, um, no, I feel like they, they're better at nuancing that than females. I'll give them that. They know, they can read the energy. They know what, if she's safe enough to open up to, but even if she is, if they have a fear around that or a wound even about sharing, right? Even if they know she's safe, they, that's something they might have to do on their own actually. Or, you know, or they need to fucking tell you and you can help them and, and help heal it relationally. But if they don't fucking tell you, then it's on them, right? And you can't do it for them. We never can do that for people.

No, no, no. Absolutely.

We're not saying that, right? but you only know what they say, right? You might can feel it energetically, like there's something he's not saying.

Right, but we feel it. Yeah, immediately.

Yeah, you can feel it, but you won't know what it is. Maybe you just know there's something behind the curtain.

Yeah, but that. But you know what's interesting, Joy is like we'll name it and some of them won't admit it. They'll be like. Because they too feel too seeing.

Well, that's when we become the terrible Yes, right, exactly.

Um, because the funny thing is, I'll tell you this, like, men have told me, like, oh, like, you know, like, I feel seen, or I'm— that I can feel vulnerable with you, because I do offer that space. I, I do that with everybody. Like, well, that's what I mean. I just feel like women are better at that because we, we practice also that with other women, right? We're better at, like, you know, our best friend calls us, they're like, sobbing on the ground and we're like, what's wrong? You know, like, what's up? You know, like, tell me, right? We're used to being very like nurturing, right? Or even our child, like, you know, if you have a child, like, it's so, it's easier for us to be like, okay, baby, tell me what's wrong. You know, like, men don't have that as much, right? I'm not saying that all of them are cold, but it's harder for them, especially how they were raised and how they were brought up. And probably on top of that, even like mother wounds and all this, like it's, it's harder for them. So it's like, even if they feel safe, there's a certain love, like there, there's some of them where it's like, okay, wait, I don't know what this means if I feel safe. And they probably go back to past wounds.

Are you saying they don't know how to respond to you and your emotions?

Um, know how to be totally open, like, uh, in their vulnerability.

To me, I'm, I'm at a place now where like, I let them, just like we like to use ourselves as, as a flower, like I let them bloom on their own with that. You tell me when you're ready to tell me. And I think that gives them like, okay, she's not pressuring me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, and I'm like, I ain't gonna go nowhere. You tell me when you wanna tell me. And if you don't ever wanna tell me, you don't need to tell me. Like, that's what I'm here for. Like, whatever you feel comfortable with. And if I feel like I wanna tell you something, I'll tell you. If not, I'm not gonna tell you shit. Right?

Like, well, yeah, that's when we become like mirrors, right? Like that, that's kind of what I mean is like women do. Mirror?

Well, I think women to women, when like you and I, or, you know, any female to female relationship and friend, like friendship, we go there very fast, right? We go there pretty fucking fast and it builds rapport and we build that trust bond pretty fucking quickly and then we just keep it going. So for us it's like, well, of course we're just gonna jump in, right? Like that's natural. To just be like, remember the Superman? Like, here I am, sister. And she's like, fuck yeah, me too.

Right?

Like, oh, we could do that and we don't freak each other out. Right? Um, but they be, they do it on their own.

Oh, I know.

But I think with emotional intelligence, I'm thinking now of my, my ex-husband. And I felt like I waited around for like 3 years, right? And then I'm like, okay, where's the fucking blue man? I'm getting tired of waiting. Like, I don't know how to be any more safe. I don't know how to like do, you know, granted I was, you know, a different person than I am now, but even then I was doing everything I could think of, right? To, to help him. And it was finally, it was like, I can't. This is the same thing, right?

It's not a, it's not a you thing, Joy. That, but that's what I, that's what I mean. Because like, again, I have also experienced that and I, I also don't like pressuring people as well. Like I, to me, I'm like, I don't find that attractive. I don't like pulling things out of people. They don't, I'm also like you where I'm like, if you don't wanna tell me, don't, it's okay. Don't tell me. Like. We don't, we don't even have to talk.

Fine.

Like I, I have other people that, you know, cause for me, I'm like so focused on reciprocity now. And that's with everything, with platonic, with family, with relate. Like I'm, I'm so like, this needs to be reciprocal because if it's not, fuck off. And I say that with love, but like, I just don't have the time anymore to—

Well, that leaks your energy.

Yeah, I don't have time anymore to just hold space for people who have one foot in and one foot out. And again, that goes both for like girlfriends, you know, or, or, you know, someone who might, might be more romantically. And I just don't have time for that anymore. I've done that way too much. And like, I, I remember there was a guy I was seeing and again, he was under that spiritual umbrella and I was also like, okay, it feels like He's one of those like slow blooms and I was giving him all the space and all this. And he told me like, wow, there's certain things you've said that like, I never thought people saw and blah, blah, blah. Right. And he still, he couldn't lean in and I'm like, okay. Like I respected that. I was like, fine, do your thing. Don't include me in that then. 'Cause I'm not gonna be waiting around holding space for you while you make up your mind whether you're ready to fucking open up.

Well, I think that's leaning in. You, that's the res— I can't say that word as well as you, reciprocity.

Reciprocity.

Yeah. Like if you can energetically, you'll feel it and you'll hear it, right? Yeah. And you'll feel like, ah, okay, he's, he's leaning in or he's bringing this to my attention and I'm gonna match it. Yeah. Right? And there's just this, you keep matching and you're building the structure of the relationship.

Yeah.

By doing that, that's deepening, it's bonding, it's just beautiful. Right? And I think that's one reason to go slow because, um, then you're building it. But yeah, at some point somebody's gonna give something and then it's like, oh yeah. Oh, this is, uh, like, ooh, am I ready to go there? But I guess what I'm learning now is like, I name stuff when I, I can sense both of us feel it, but it hasn't been said yet. And then I feel safe enough to, to name it and like add my tile and just kind of build that way. It's I'm still learning it, so I can't speak to it very well, but, um, it feels, it feels, um, it doesn't feel rushed, but it also doesn't feel slow. So that's pretty cool.

Well, you, I guess it's like the pace that, yeah, you're, you're comfortable going at, right?

That just comes back to sovereignty, like your pace. What's right for you, right? And you want them to stay in that lane and neither one bending to try to make the other one like them more, or, you know what I mean? Um, that, that's old Joy stuff as well.

No, I, I, yeah, there's, I mean, I know there's a lot of layers to this. Um, But I don't know what I keep finding, Joy. It's like, and by the way, I've also heard this from other like male content creators who are in this. They do say, and especially the ones in partnership, they're like, listen, I thought I was healed. I met my wife and then, haha, no, I wasn't. But they said like, you know, instead of running away, they leaned in. They leaned in, they, they were like, oh, okay, well this isn't, you know, just because they've done whatever work that they have done doesn't mean that when they enter something, it's just gonna be completely buttery smooth. You know, they're like, no, I got initiated into the fire even more when I met my wife, which was then girlfriend, right? And they were doing the dance, they're like, She shined all the light on all the corners that I still wasn't being fully embodied or healed or whatever. And they're like, it was actually a very triggering thing for them. It was actually like, they're like, but they, they, they chose to stay. They chose to lean in. They chose to be initiated. And result, cuz they're like, their woman was only shining light on the things that they were not, again, being truthful and embodied in. And it was a shocker to them cuz they're like, I thought I was, but then I met my woman and I learned that I wasn't. And yeah, there's, there's like a few of them that I follow and they've all, they've all said the same thing cuz they're in partnership now. And they talk about the masculine-feminine dynamic. And there was one, he was like, I'm surprised she didn't leave me.

Aw. Yeah.

He's like, there, he's like reflecting back on how sometimes he would react. And he was like, I was on the healing path. He was on the healing path and he's like, yeah, there's times where I'm like, wow, I would've smacked myself of like how he reacted to her when she was shining a mirror and a light of all the places he was still not operating in full integrity.

Um, that's beautiful, right? Beautiful, right?

Yeah.

Did they reflect that to her or was it just her doing that, you think?

Um, they said it was just her because this is what I mean is women do tend, like We're way more intuitive. We're way like, and this is a known thing. Again, it doesn't mean that men aren't, but like we are more tuned into that, right? And I do believe just women, we tend to, again, I know some people will be like, not every woman, I know most women, the ones that are healed and on this path and blah, blah, blah. We're so tuned into truth and fairness and, you know, just like holding integrity also for ourselves. And if you do that for a while, you're always going to do that. I'm sure there's probably, and I mean, I don't know, they haven't really mentioned, but I'm sure there's probably things that, you know, she got initiated in as well. Maybe, I don't know, but they were just saying like, no, my woman was the greatest initiation to the next level of myself and my healing. Yeah, there's at least like 3 different ones that I really do respect, actually 4, that are all in partnership and have said, no, my woman has been the greatest initiation. And it wasn't easy in the beginning. It was like, to them it was fucking triggering to their ego and their pride because I'm sure you know, and I mean, I know I developed one years ago and I'm more humble. I have a lot more humility. We do tend to develop like a spiritual ego of like, I am healed. I am love. I am light. I, you know, I meditate. I do this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, ha ha ha. If you're not embodied, like you're no, you know. Um, and I, I, because men do tend to operate a bit more from that ego and pride, I think they get slapped on the face. No, metaphorically, when they meet a woman who, you know, is so embodied and they're like, you're still operating from your ego and pride. And they're like, what? Right? They, they got, they get. They get brought down back to earth, back to reality of like, oh, okay, nevermind. There's still wounds here and blah, blah, blah.

When they can handle the fire, when we challenge them like that.

Right, right. And not run, but be initiated by it. Right.

And humbled.

Yeah.

Because you're not do— like, odds are she's being her.

Yeah.

And she's just calling him out on his shit. Right.

Yeah.

And probably, hopefully doing it in a loving way, but it's gonna have some fire to it. Right.

It has. You know what? It has.

You can't puppy dog that. You can't puppy dog that.

You can't. You can't though, because the fire is what transmutes it. I mean, hell, when we go through our dark nights of the soul, that's not You know, like you said, puppy doggy, like it's not, it's not sunshine and rainbows. If it was, everyone would be doing it, right? The fire, there's a reason why there's that fire, that pain, that darkness to it. It is to transmute it, to transform it, to look at it like, you know, when you really think about it, there is no growth without discomfort. Ooh.

Yeah, no, 100%.

Like all growth is discomfort. There's zero fucking expansion without discomfort. And apply that to anything. Apply it, you know, to going out to the gym. Let's say you're a bodybuilder. Obviously there's pain and discomfort with that, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, birth though, I've been hearing lately that it can be the opposite, which I do agree.

What? Birth?

Apparently women are supposed to have like pleasurable births.

Not me.

Like that? No. Well, that was, did, did you do it in the hospital?

Yeah.

Like that's what, so apparent, I, I'll send you some stuff, but, uh, apparently it's like that.

Well, I ain't have no more babies like that. Well, no, that was one and done.

But other women are saying that apparently like If we're just left to our own, like, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll send it to you again. Like, I can't speak fully to it, but I've been hearing the opposite.

I've heard that before, but there's so much shit talk. We, that's a whole other podcast.

Oh, oh yeah.

Cause there's a lot of lies out there. Women don't tell you very much about the whole pregnancy and birth shit, and it is Yes. I think I'd rather go through birth than fucking being pregnant again. Like that's horrible. Oh man.

So see, maybe that, like growing that baby is discomfort, right?

It's fuck.

Yeah. It's, yeah. Are you fucking kidding me? So, but, but again, that's, that's the initiation. That's the expansion, right? And again, that's discomfort, right? Even doing anything like This literally applies to anything and everything. Doing something completely brand new, starting a new career, it's never gonna be like, oh, sunshine and rainbows. It's going to be discomfort because it's a, it's an expansion of a version of yourself that you've never been. You've never been. Even when we're kids and we're growing up, I remember, because I'm tall and I don't know if it's Mine.

I'm tall too.

Yeah, I'm, I'm 5'9".

I'm 5'10".

Okay. A lot of similarities, Joy. So I don't know if you, you remember, but I remember when I was growing up, my legs at night were hurting so much.

Yes. Yes.

I couldn't sleep.

Yeah, no, they were bad.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's discomfort because As this little body, we're growing up and we're, we're, we're changing. We're— this is what I mean. This is what I mean. And like, that's what I'm trying to say also in relationship, especially in healthy relationship. People need to understand it's not gonna be fucking buttery smooth. It's a relationship you've never done in your life, for example, a healthy one. What makes you think that it's gonna be all bliss in the beginning? It'll be bliss, but after the initiation of going through that, of, you know, coming into that union, coming into that container with the other person, it's going to be an initiation cuz it's an another expansion of yourself. Right afterwards when you've done the dance, it's like, okay, you get to, you know, you want, you, you guys understand each other and blah, whatever. Right. But then also for that couple, let's just say they've never had a child. When they bring a child into the world, that's also another freaking initiation.

Oh yes. Yeah.

Right. It's, it's never just like buttery smooth. And that's what makes us into the greatest version of ourselves. Really?

No, I agree. Like there's, I don't have anything really to add to that. Um, to me it's when I'm not in those moments, it's very easy for me to romanticize and say that that healing, that discomfort is beautiful, blissful, right? Because I'm not in it in that moment. But when, you know, reflectively, it still is beautiful because there is growth, right? So in that sense, the relationship will stay beautiful and blissful, but You're gonna, you gotta expect a little wobble. We're all humans. We're all bringing some baggage, right? And even if we're, even if you're like both in your twenties, right? Freaking 19-year-olds, you still have your childhood baggage, right? You might not have discovered it yet. I'm not saying, I know most people watching us are not that age. I'm just saying like, probably not.

It's not a discussion.

I'm just saying like, even at that level. Your brain and shit, right? There is no real clean slate in a way. Um, because we're all our programs and the things we are running and, uh, until you really fine-tune that, right? And even then it's, it's going, it doesn't end. I'm sure even when you're freaking 80 years old, there's still stuff, right? That's probably gonna come up or something. I don't know. We're not 80.

Oh, absolutely. Like, uh, Have you read, um, and I don't know if I asked you this before, Women Who Run with the Wolves?

No, but I've been seeing that book pop up a lot.

Okay. Read that because there's a very interesting part. And actually this is under the category of like union. So the, how, how the book works is like they have like these mythical stories and then she dissects them and she tells you, she unlayers them. It's, it's really cool. And one of them is about union and it's really interesting because she does mention this part of like, she calls it life slash death slash life, which is just death and rebirth within the, the cycle of relationship and how like You have to be initiated by it. Like, you know, you meet a person and sure, it might be like, if that's that life part of it being exciting, but the thing is you go more and more into it. You go through a death portal of perhaps the life that you were living, maybe, um, like changing certain things. Cause obviously now you have to like build and, and that there's this constant death and rebirth cycle within a relationship, and that she said that like some people get scared of that and then they run the other way. And she's like, what they don't understand is like they'll never get past that part. They'll just find another person and here comes the same freaking cycle, this death and rebirth cycle. And it's like, okay, you can run away again, but you're, you're never going, like you can't. Just skip over it. You're gonna have to at some point lean into the fire and go through that death portal. And then again, you get rebirthed and then there's another, like, well, I guess I view that sacred union as transformative. That's, yeah, that you're going into it because you want that death, that rebirth, like you want to be remade through You know, that takes a healed, conscious woman. That's what I was gonna say. That, that you could tell you're a healed, conscious woman for you to say that. But I don't find a lot of men say that and admit that.

Well, I'll wait around for them then because I'm not settling for anything less. Oh, oh, oh, I know you aren't either, right?

Yeah. As you should. Right, right. And what I was like, that's what I mean. I just feel like.

Well, to me, I don't— I get how that can come across as scary, but to me I'm like, no, I like, I like really want that. Like, no, please give it to me. Please. I want to be transformed. I want to turn into mascara running down my face. Like, let's just do this.

But it's because, Joy, you've probably done a lot of death and rebirth on your own, right?

Girl, a fucking phoenix on my wrist.

There you go. I have a butterfly on my wrist, which is another Like metamorphosis, right? That's hilarious how it's on your wrist too. Another symbol.

I've kind of lost count.

Right? I don't know. Oh, but yeah, it, I don't know. I, I think it is natural for women to do this like death and rebirth cycle. For men, not so much.

Well, think of our menstrual cycle. It's fucking built in.

Yeah.

We're a different person each week, essentially, because of our bodies. Right. I know when I am in a hormonal shift, I can feel it. Mm-hmm. Right. I'm like, mm, this ain't normal me.

Yeah.

Or that me from last week. Nope. This is bitchy Joy. That's what's going on, right? Or no, I'm moody, Joy, now.

Mm.

You know, I'm gonna cry about everything. And then you just roll with it cuz we don't really have a fucking choice. We just have to roll with it.

You don't have a choice. Yeah. You just have to, you have to accept it.

But like we become accustomed to it because that's, we literally don't have choice, right?

Yeah.

Um, yeah. No. And we get good at masking it and hiding it because of culturally and we gotta keep doing work or school or something, right?

Oh, I don't mask it.

Well, I mean, in the past, right? Yeah. Now, now I agree. This is what's going on.

Yeah. So, you know, but yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm way more authentic with it now and just like, I don't care.

I don't give a fuck now if it, uh, makes people uncomfortable to talk about that. Yeah. Cause I'm like, you know what? It's fucking natural. Just get over yourselves.

Yeah.

If you can't, like, if you don't have a You don't menstruate. Good for you.

Right.

You must be a man or, you know, you had it removed. Like, yeah, but this is what my life, you know, I have had to deal with this since 12 years old.

So we're like, yeah, it's funny. I've also gotten to the point where I'll even tell men straight up. Yeah. I'm like, I'm on my moon cycle or I'm like, I'm really, and I just don't, but you know what's funny. Again, like it hasn't been in a very like romantic sense. It's been more of a platonic sense. They're like, oh cool. Okay.

But like, yeah. Yeah.

They're just like, okay, cool.

Thanks.

I'm like, okay, good. You know, but, um, oh my gosh. Anyway.

Is that the note we wanna end on?

I don't know. I guess so. I guess so.

Oh, that's funny.

I love how we just go with the flow completely, Joy. We just have a conversation. That's it.

Well, we tied it all in. It all got there.

Yeah, yeah. But still, yeah, I love it. I love it. You made your way. It's authentic.

Very much. Very much. No, I have no notes.

Like, we— Yeah, no, I know.

We vaguely remembered our topic and we still hit it, right?

Oh, I knew we would. I knew we would. I'm like, Somehow we'll get there. We'll get there. Yeah.

Well, thank you, Alexandra. This is amazing as always, right? Obviously we always have a blast.

I hope you guys watching enjoy it too. Like, laugh.

We had 15 people show up. That's amazing and beautiful. Thank you, everybody.

And I mean, even afterwards, I hope you guys had a laugh as well. Took something out of this. Alrighty, well, thank you for having me, Joy.

Yay!

Bye. Bye.