Joy Brown and Alexandra discuss becoming a "walking tower moment"—someone whose authenticity and self-love inspires transformation in others. They explore the cost of visibility, how to build boundaries like bricks and mortar, and why loving yourself through mess and failure matters more than appearing perfect.
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Alessandra and I were talking before we went live about what we will talk about, and I had a cool thought and I was like, I'm gonna wait to say this on the live. And then it left.
Walking Tower moment.
Walking Tower moment. Yeah. Beat. Ah, well, I don't know if this was the thought, but it's a new thought. Or maybe the old one. Who knows? Who cares? I didn't, I think I became a walking tower moment before I ever realized that's what I was. Is that how it was for you?
Yes. I didn't, I didn't understand it until after. I'm like, oh, it makes so much more sense, right?
Like, this is why people respond to me in this way.
Yeah.
Well, how would you, how would you, how would you define it? Just so we're like laying the groundwork here, taking it to the ground level.
Uh, um, it's being a catalyst in somebody's life, right? Coming in and it truly almost feel like our energies in our light, does it on a much deeper level. And then obviously it's like whatever our own experiences were, whatever we have been through, it's like when we meet that person that hasn't gone through that and then is touched by the light, it's like they retreat, they retreat, and then they have to like go through their freaking dark night of the soul or some metamorphosis, right? It's being that catalyst, right? Like, I don't know, that's That's the best way that I can kind of define it, right? How about you?
Well, I got a song in my head now.
Oh, yeah?
Do I know it? I don't know. It's, it's blinded by the light. It's an old song. Yes.
Yes.
I don't know who sings it.
I don't know. I don't know either. But just that line resonates so much. It's, it's, it's, you know, it's interesting cause I, I've made, that's what's been coming through me, like a lot of that and also a lot of love messages, which I guess, you know what, it's really all tied. Cause I tend to find, and I wonder if it's the same for you, Joy, I tend to find that like I end up being a catalyst slash tower moment. For a lot of men actually in my life. Like perhaps, yes, there were some friendships, but then they could, like, they completely dissolved out of my life. Right. So I, I'm not really—
it's men or women?
I mean, both. Both.
Yeah.
Both. But I tend to find that I can see it more In men.
Yeah, I, I agree with that. Yeah. Um, well, this year, I mean, I, I've written about this and everything. Like I was told back in like February, like you're gonna have a bunch of men like find you, right? Mm-hmm. And I was just like, why? Like, I don't want them. Like, well, I was married at the time and I was just like, it was men. Why do I, I don't really need to talk to men. Like, why do I care about them? Um, and so I had to do some work on that, right? And, um, and I did. And there they were. They started showing up. And I mainly find them or they find me on Substack, right? Which we're already on, or LinkedIn. And occasionally like TikTok. Um, but then like I would meet one man and then he would introduce me to other men. It wasn't even like, and, but it wasn't all like, yeah, yeah. It wasn't romantic.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right. Uh, now newly separated Joy kind of went there a little bit. Right. But, um, no, I think it was more. One, because I was the tower moment catalyst and energetically they needed to touch my frequency and have that, right?
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, there was also a lot of, um, soul recognition and like, are we, you know, I had, they seemed like this is a, I'm glossing over, not every dude was like this, but it was like they all had some idea. That, or some, yeah, some idea, some project that could use help or support. And it was like, they, I didn't even ask and they're just telling me about it. Right. And I'm like, who am I? I was a stay-at-home mom. Why are you telling me your cool ass, you know, technology, whatever? I don't even know. Um, but I mean, I would listen, right? And I eventually started meeting so many different guys from all these different things and I was like, oh, well they need to talk to that guy. Like, and I started becoming the networker and I do the same thing. It's so in—
so sorry, I just have to say, I'm like, oh my God, I do the same thing.
No, I think we have the same function basically.
Yes, I think so.
Um, and eventually like in the height of the summer, I was, there was just so many, so like too many coming. I eventually just made a Discord, which is now like dead, but at the time I was like, just put 'em all in there and let you meet each other. Because like, I can't, this is too many people to be connecting and I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to be doing. I just, I'll be like, hmm, this guy feels energetically like this guy and their ideas, If they were to talk and really like hash it out and brainstorm, oh my God, they would make this beautiful creation and they both know how, what they're talking about. But you know what? It didn't always work out. They actually never, they usually did not get along the way I thought, you know, they could.
Right.
And that's been another thing, like I've noticed. Or I've had other friends even mention to me, like, you can be friends with a lot of different people and like, like they understand you. Like I had, uh, I had Mark Davey on my podcast, right? The other day. And I had somebody be like, I can't, um, I'm not into the glyphs. I don't understand him and like what he's doing. And I'm, and I'm like, you know, I'm not necessarily a glyph person, but I get Mark. I don't know why I get Mark. I understand it. Uh, it's beautiful ass shit to me. Right. Um, but I'm like, wow, I guess if they went to talk to Mark, it might not be the same, you know, and I get that because we're all different. Right. But I don't know. I'm rambling on. What are you? No, no.
Uh, I mean, I, I, I totally understand what you're saying because it's funny. Like I said, I, I resonate with that. I do the same thing. I, like, I'm able to, yeah, also just like, so it's so interesting. Yeah.
Like, you just see it, right? Yeah.
Right.
Um, yeah, keep going.
Sorry. Um, yeah, no, I was just gonna say like, you know, it'll come from anybody though. Like even like, uh, one of my female friends or a lady that I know will say like, hey, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I need to connect you with love, you know, whoever. And like, to be honest, like I get very disconnected. If it works out, it works out. If it doesn't, whatever. My thing was maybe to just, you know, tell like whatever, right? But, um, I guess kind of maybe we should just go back to like the catalyst thing, right? Because to tell you the truth, Joy, like I'm just at a point to the point where I've literally said this out loud. I'm like, is there an unsubscribe button? Like, can I unsubscribe from being a catalyst and a walking fucking tower moment for, especially for men? Like, I unsubscribe. I don't, I don't want it anymore. Like, I, I, I'm so, I'm just like, why? You know, why, why do you have to be so magnetized to our light, to our magnitude? And like, these are, I get that these are men that oftentimes they, they haven't done the work, right? They have shadows. There's clearly something in us that, you know, they have to come in and be like, whoa, okay. I see my shit and I have to like walk away and deal with it now and heal. Right.
And I'm just like, I think, do you think it's a phase? I don't know. I don't feel like, um, I don't know. For me, it's slowed down. And, um, that, that was certainly how it felt during the summer and Oh, the past 6 months. Just, yeah, it was, and it would happen really fast. I mean, like within like a few days of talking, I said something that, right? I was fiery in some way and like, you know, they'd have to go off and handle it.
You know what? That's the thing. Like I'm also noticing is like, Both men and women. I'll say for both men and women, a healed woman is a very confronting thing for both the unhealed men and, and women. And especially that feminine fire and that feminine rage. I, like, I made a video recently because I was, I was really fired up about something, uh, and it was male coaches, um, talking about like giving women advice on how to be women. And I'm sorry, but that, that's not an area they should be.
Like, what?
Who gave you the authority? Like, are you in a woman's body? And it did fire me, as it should, as it should. What? Why? Like, who gave you the authority? You haven't lived in a woman's body. You haven't been conditioned in the way that we have been conditioned. You guys have your own separate conditioning, you know, and it really fired me up. So I made a video about it because I'm just like, because I see there's some unhealed women that listen to it, and I'm like, are you really trying to get advice on how to be a healed woman from a man? Like, what logic is that? What common sense is that? You know, it's the same thing if I were to teach men how to be men. I can't.
I don't know.
Can I tap into that consciousness? Sure. But will I ever get the full spectrum?
No.
Right. I've, I grew up in a female body in female conditioning and what we were programmed to be and do and behave, you know? And so anyway, I made a video and there were some people who were triggered and I'm like, I didn't even say anything bad. I was just like, my fire was turned on, right?
Mm-hmm.
And, and I'm just like, wow, there are people still out there that, cuz see, both men and women are conditioned to think that women are just meant to be nice and, and smile and pretty. And sit quietly and bring peace to the table. Don't disrupt the peace. You see injustice, be quiet. No, that's not the feminine. The feminine is a fucking spectrum, you know? Like, yeah, like, like, yes, she can be nice, she can be, you know, soft and nurturing and, and, and, um, sensual. Absolutely. But there's another side to her, and we see it in mother nature.
Oh, I'm so glad you said that because the visual I was getting while you were talking is like that, like a volcano and like that primordial creation, right? Yes. That's the energy we're talking about when we talk about the feminine rage and fire. It is that, at least to me, it is that, you know, like it comes from a deep place. And I know you know. Yeah, it comes from a deep place and it is— it just comes right out, right? And I guess you could say—
I had a different visual what you did that—
we're talking volcanoes, we're talking volcanoes, just volcanoes. Oh, but Well, and it's this, I don't know, it's, I'm hearing the word righteousness. It's, you know, like it's, it's like a no bullshit.
Oh yes.
I'm not, I'm just not gonna put up with the bullshit. And if you're spitting bullshit at me, I'm gonna call it.
Call it the fuck out. That's the bullshit. And see, unhealed, unhealed men and women will be like, She's in her masculine. No, actually she's in her full fucking rage of the feminine. You know, it's, it's like the goddess, and I don't know too, too much about her, but it always comes up to me as the goddess Kali.
Oh, right. Yeah.
The tongue. Right.
And, and wildness and, uh, she's kind of destructive.
She's very interested. And her, her partner Shiva. Like there's a picture that's depicted where she's like standing on him and she's like, you know, in her full rage and Shiva's looking at her with full love, full, like a total acceptance of her being.
Well, I think what creates these tower moments for others is, well, this is so basic, right? But I mean, It's either the fire, which is love, right? It's a higher love cuz you're like, I'm not gonna let you get away with this anymore.
Boundary.
To yourself, right? And me and whatever else, but mainly to yourself. You are lying to yourself and I'm calling you out on it. Yeah.
Yeah.
And we could do this with ourselves, right? But, um, obviously we're relational species and beings and we're all here together. So there's a reason it's relational. Um, and you know what was beautiful? I, it wasn't a tower moment, but they would mirror, I'm talking about these men I would meet over the summer. They would mirror things to me. That showed where I wasn't having a boundary or where I needed to have more fire. And it was like, ah, okay, I will accept this. And it didn't turn into a tower because I was open and receptive to it. Right?
Well, it didn't turn into a tower for you, right?
Right. Exactly. For me, I just took that and integrated it. I was open to it.
Beautiful.
It becomes a tower when we're in resistance or denial or, you know, pretending. I know for me, the big life changes are always when I'm like, oh fuck, I've been lying to myself. I have been lying to myself and I can't do it anymore. And that means I have to change everything, right?
Yeah.
There, this whole reality is just gonna go because it's a big lie. Yeah. And I fucking made it and I can't. I can't live it anymore, right?
Yeah. But I mean, I know for myself, and I usually tend to say that women, I feel like, tend to accept that raw truth. Yes, I know there— because I, I'll get men saying, no, but my ex— like, okay, yes, obviously there's some women that they're still operating from like that wounded feminine side, obviously. But I don't know, I feel like, for example, like you and I, like, we'll meet the men who are unintegrated and unconscious to shake them up.
Yeah.
To have them wake up to their own bullshit.
Right.
And like, that's kind of what I mean. I'm like, I'm kind of just, I'm tired of I'm tired of that. Like, I don't wanna be doing that. You know, I never, when the hell did I subscribe to do that and be that? You know, like, no more. I don't want that because like, I, I do see what you're saying that like the, some of these past people, they were just kind of showing you where you still need to place boundaries.
Well, that was still a tower moment for them, right?
Yeah.
But I was able to take Oh, like what I learned from that encounter and apply it to myself. Um, and not all of them. So it's very interesting. There was clients that meet you and run away and you never see them again. Right? And you're like, okay. And then others do that and then they come back after a few weeks. And then, oh, they might be able to stay for a few months and then you pissed them off again and they're gone. And then there's others who have become my friends who just stay. They don't, they can handle the fire. They want it, you know, and it kind of becomes this beautiful friendship.
Um, but Joy, do, would you, do you think that behind the scenes they kind of maybe are potentially romantically interested?
Or no, no, not the two I'm thinking of.
No, no.
Um, I don't know. Not at least the two I'm thinking of.
Um, I also, if they are, they need to tell me. They have to feel it. Cause I, I, cause like, oh, can I feel it?
That's why I'm like, not with them because I don't feel it.
Oh, okay.
Um, And, and it's, I don't know if they're gonna hate me for saying this, but I can't help it. They're not gay, but it's like having a gay friend.
But, but what? Sorry.
They're not gay, but it's like having a gay friend. Oh, I have, I have male, you know, male friends who are gay, But even the, the, um, non-gay ones, we still, um, talk about like other people we're interested in, like, like you would with a girlfriend or like a gay friend.
Yeah, I, I get what you mean.
I mean that in the best way, everybody.
I mean it. I know, I know what you mean. I, it's like just basically saying zero interest, zero, like Not, they were like brother-sister energy. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I like that.
Which I think, I think maybe is easier as women to get in that vibe. I don't know. We're not men. We don't know. Right. But no, there's other men I am attracted to and I, um, I put that out there. Right. But, um, so far I haven't turned into a total woman for them.
Maybe in a very subtle way. Do you know what I mean? I think with— because whenever there's like this huge surge of attraction in terms of like romantically, obviously, like, I don't think people realize that relationships are your greatest mirror and the greatest work that you're ever going to do, right? Because it's like that level of intimacy that needs to be explored and, um, all the masks that you need to drop. Like, that, that, that's why relationships tend to be a very confronting, challenging thing. And, you know, like, it's interesting because I've, I've been hearing some men online who are smart. They have a partner though, a woman that's, you know, probably putting them in their place, but Um, and, and they, they've said like, listen, um, they used to think that, you know, relationships should be easy and that, you know, just have a woman that brings peace. But they're like, no. They're like, the greatest initiation is to like have a relationship that's challenging because a lot of the time you have to be looking at your shit and be integrating it and be learning from it because like that is our greatest work, right? Which that's why I tend to find whenever someone is romantically interested, it's like, yeah, it becomes a greater catalyst versus to the, the friendships. It's like a slower integration, I think, right? It's a slower thing that they move through that you might mirror to them, right? The, the, the pro— like both of you are probably still receiving whatever lessons and stuff, but it's slower, right? Because it's not as charged. That, that energy's not as charged, right? Does that make sense?
Feeling that friendships are slower because they're not as charged? Is that what you're saying?
Yeah. Right? So it's like the, the friends that you have, they probably, there probably are shifts and things that they're working on and that you might mirror to them. But like I said, it's just maybe slower because again, it's a friendship relationship and with friendship relationships, it's like, it's not, it's not as charged.
I think it started off very catalytic with both of them. And then, um, the beauty is they didn't run away. They didn't do that running away. They stayed. And, um, oh, it might have been like, What are we at first? Right. And then it was like, well, this is where I'm at. This is where you're at. And you know, we settled on friendship. Right. But, um, I'm not sure where I'm going with that now, but, but, um, no, that's how it happened. But I'm not having as many new people come where it's immediately catalytic. I feel like maybe it's a shift in my own energy, um, because now they're more peaceful and, um, they've done the work, the men I'm meeting now. Mm-hmm.
Oh, really?
Yes. I was like fucking graduating.
I love that.
I had one relationship and the Energetically felt catalytic, but you know, like the words actually spoken were, were nice and, you know, civil, you could say. But behind the scenes, it was very, you know, intense and everything. And oh yeah, I had to cry and like really release all of that. But once I did that, the ones showing up, not, they've They are doing the work. It's not past tense, right? It is, they are on that journey. They are doing it. And it's like, oh wow. Yeah, it does feel like graduating a little bit. And, but I'm also like, am I gonna become the Tower moment? And we're just postponing this, you know, big explosion? Or is it, um, I don't know. I've seen a lot of co-creative energy moving and it's just Um, what else? I've seen like, I'm just enjoying it. Just enjoying each other. It's very beautiful so far. Very different than just a few months ago. It was like chaos. It felt chaotic.
Really? Okay.
Well, there was just so many of them. There's just so many.
I guess I, I don't like, and, and this is like, obviously we, we, we've, we, I know you and I are similar, but obviously there's like differences in our journeys and stuff like that. And I don't know, I guess I've always placed firmer boundaries. Like what I get, especially with the, like the friend thing, I get scared of like trying to, not trying to, I get scared of like them thinking that I'm leading them on. So I, I, I'm very like clear cut. With like how much interaction I have with my male friends, right? Um, just because I've had, I've had so many experiences, Joy, where it's like I thought it was the friendship and then they like would be like, I'm in love with you. And I'm just like, of course. Well, that wasn't my thought, but I would be like, are you like Come on. Come on.
You know, you know, now that I'm thinking about it, outside of college, I really, or no, I once had a coworker who was like my work husband, completely platonic. We both had other, you know, real romantic partners. It was completely platonic. We just got along so well and we just chose to hang out. To me, it didn't even matter that he was a dude. Right? It was just like, hey, we both are enjoying this. Let's do our work together.
Right?
But, um, that might just be a difference between you and I. I had a brother and mostly all male cousins, and just the way I grew up was around a lot of boys. Um, you know, there weren't men back then as children, but, um, so I, I definitely can become one of the guys, right? I have that energy just looking at you, and I'm in a freaking t-shirt that's silly, and you're in a freaking hot sweater. So I'm just saying, like, I already have the more she's one of the guys kind of vibe, right? Um, not that I don't get dressed up and all girly I can't. It's just, um, I'm also a t-shirt girly, right? Why not?
Um, you can honor that, right?
Yeah. But, um, no, it's just, I, I know I give off that vibe. Um, and I'm okay with that. I, um, oh, I've, I don't know if I wanna tell this story on live though.
Oh, okay. Okay.
I totally had one where I guess I will tell this. Oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm telling this. So I had, this is in the summer and I had a friend tell me to, you know, like, hey, you should talk to this person. And it was another man, right? So I messaged that man and I was like, hey, my friend so-and-so told me I should, you know, meet with you and maybe we would have something in common. I don't know. And I don't know, I don't know why, right? So I start texting with this guy and I thought we were talking about energy. And I was like, wow, I can sense your energy. And it's real. I don't know. I guess I didn't use the word energy. I've set myself up for this and I'm like, wow, you're like I've really, you're really big, but I'm talking about energy. You know where this is going. I know everybody knows where this is going. Poor little Joy.
Yeah.
Wait, what am I now? I, I was 40 at the time and I was still just, I was legit seeing things, you know, like I was in that space. We were having two vastly different conversations, me and this man. And I did not realize it until he sent a certain type of picture, and then I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, I don't think we're talking about the same thing. So yes, it does happen to me, Alexandra. Just, I, I walked right into it and I just, it was just completely wishful Thankfully, that was the only time that happened.
You're like, maybe I should be clearer on, on my, the words that I say.
Well, it just, it happened so fast. Like, you know, within like a few hours of texting.
Oh, Jesus Christ.
You know, like it's not like days later. No, no. This is the initial conversation and it was just like, oh my God. Oh, whoa. That's not, I'm not going there with you, dude.
Like, I'm not going there. Oh, good Lord. Um, yeah. Did that— I'm assuming that ended.
Now that we didn't talk much about it.
Yeah.
Because I was like, well, I mean, can we put this beside— like, he just kept coming back to that and I'm like, okay, I'm done. That's not the route I wanna go with you. And if, and if we can't even hold a conversation without you keep going back to this.
Oh geez.
They're not, you know, boundaries. Sorry. Yeah.
Yeah. Um, like my mind keeps wanting to go to, but like, I'm gonna just speak about boundaries for a second. But yeah, for me, my boundaries are so, like, so more so than like obviously when I was growing up, um, they're very clear-cut now. They're very— and I'm, I'm open about it. Like I, I will state my boundaries and if you can't meet them, then adios, you know, like goodbye. Um, because I feel like the amount of work And I don't know if you'll— I'm sure you'll resonate with this, Joy. The amount of work when you do on yourself, like, it's like, sorry, but we're not playing the same game anymore, you know? Um, when you've tapped into your own worth and you know, you see your own value, and yes, we carry such a magnetic light that touches people in such a way where they get blasted into space and they have to do their own work. But like, yeah, I'm just so, I'm so like just protective over this.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Version of myself now.
Well, that's, I think for me I call it like This past summer was like a masterclass because I didn't really have those boundaries. And each guy, well, I might have been a tower for him and he was a mirror for me on where I needed a boundary.
Yeah.
And so it was literally brick by brick kind of in a way, building these boundaries for literally the first time in my life, which is sad in a way, but it's like, glad it's fucking happening. So, right? We're not gonna judge that. And now I've noticed when a man sets a boundary, and I'm using that word very loosely, it doesn't have to be like just him saying no to something or his opinion even. I'm counting all of that in there. When he does that, instant respect, right? And I also honor it instantly. I don't even ask him why, right? I don't need to know why. If that's where he's at and that's what he's saying, fuck, beautiful. I can go with that. Um, and one is hot as hell when they do that. Um, I don't— I guess if you're a man, you can answer for us if that is hot as hell when a woman does that, or if you just find it annoying. I think that is That's very telling. You should probably look at that, right? Um, but no, I, and I'm like, it dawned on me the other day when I had a, a man do that and I was like, oh, this is exactly what I want. Because, um, I, I don't want, I've been with passive men where I just kind of steamroll, right? Hmm.
Because they're— can you ask what the bound— like, I'm just curious, what was the boundary that this person placed?
Oh, I was like, hey, do we wanna chat on another, like WhatsApp or something? And they're like, no, let's just stay here. I was like, okay.
Oh, okay.
So it's just that like, yeah, just, it's not, to me it doesn't have to be this, I will never blah, blah, blah. Right. It doesn't have to be this like voice of God deep. Boundary, like that's why I said I'm using it loosely, but to me it's almost like, it's just like decisive.
It's just like, yes, like there you go. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I, I see what you're saying. Cause I almost, yeah, I almost feel like, oh, sorry. So, so we literally at the same time. Um, go, go for it, Joy. I, I, I'll wait.
Well, to me it's, it one shows, ah, they, I feel safe. Mm-hmm. Right? Because I know that he can speak up for himself and I don't have to guess. That's what happened with my ex-husband. He would not give me those opinions or, you know, just say something simple like that. Right.
Wishy-washy energy.
And so it was like, it put the burden on me to figure out what that line was for him so I wouldn't, you know, overstep or understep, right? And that's exhausting. That's emotional labor, right?
I, for me, what I'm receiving, and I, I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but from what I'm receiving, what you're saying is it's not even boundary, it's more just like decisiveness.
No, like, yeah, it's knowing where the hell you're fucking going, right?
Because I agree, my ex was the same thing. He was just like, I dealt with a lot of wishy-washy men where it's like, well, and it's like, I'm your backbone, dude.
Yeah. It's like, I can make a decision, then no problem. That's easy as fuck. But if I'm in a relationship, right, I want to make a decision that we are both in agreement of. And if for years it's always, I don't care, whatever. You're like, oh my God, just have a goddamn motherfucking opinion.
State that. Please.
I don't give a fuck if it offends me. I just want you to say something. But he only would when he was angry, which I, and then I was like, well, at least you're, at least I'm finally hearing it. Uh, but maybe constructive ways.
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, factually.
But I think I've also experienced the other end where, uh, that they control, it becomes more controlling and manipulative and, and gaslighting and on the other end of the spectrum.
Yeah, that's not, that's toxic.
And then you're like, ooh, I feel like I'm boxed in. I don't, it, it's confusing to me, everything, right? So yeah, this decisiveness to me, that is a boundary in a way. Um, because it's in like, I don't know, see, uh, cause in a, in a rough way, I agree.
What I'm, what I think, Joy, is I think women need more boundaries. Cuz women, like, you know, from the wounded feminine, the wounded feminine is the one who goes into this pick-me energy, into that competition, into that like, let me use, um, that lust energy to try and reel you in. And it comes from a place of lack, obviously. It comes from a place of not being worthy, uh, not feeling good enough. Again, wanting to be chosen, which I do believe women should be chosen, but it can't come from a place of lack, right? It can't come from a place of this And that tends to, like, when a woman operates from that wounded place, she has zero boundaries. She goes, okay, you want me, have me, do anything you want, you know? And that's when they tend to attract men who are like, perfect, let me reel her in and let me— do you know what I mean?
Oh, right.
And that's what I mean is I think women just need to have more boundaries of like, listen, I have, like, I know for myself, it's like I have come from not great relationships. I've, I've, I've experienced also betrayals in friendships and stuff like, so like now, like at my core, I love, I truly love. And if you're in my circle now, like if you get into my circle, I protect you. I love you. I'm there for you, you know? But now getting into my circle is just a little— it's trickier now, you know? Um, I, I mean, I even have boundaries in a way with like, uh, friendships. Like if I don't feel like it's reciprocated, oh, dang, Bean.
Yeah.
Goodbye. I, I'm not, you know, Yeah, I'm not, I'm not dealing with that. I'm not overgiving myself. Right. So I used to be, for example, in friendships, like I used to be the one that would always be reaching out, would always be planning, would always be, yeah.
Joy, this past year, it ended, right?
Like this, like, fuck you energy. And, and it not like in a bad way, but like, if, if you wanna be in my life. Show me.
Yeah.
Show me. I get that we're all busy. I get that we're all dealing with stuff. I get that this world can be heavy, but the thing is, if I was able to like have a job, like especially when I was like working, uh, in the office and stuff like that and, um, have many things going on in my life and still be able to reach out, like, for example, to my friends and try and plan something. And they're like, oh no, sorry, I'm busy. I can only do this or whatever. And I would always be the one, like, texting them again and being like, hey, do you want to meet? Blah, blah, blah. I'm, I'm so done.
I'm so done. Oh, I had that same, same moment. And it, it was in the summer too. And I was like, I just woke up one day and I was like, I just wanna see who texts me right today because I'm like, I got a whole list of people I'm so like sending messages to daily. And I, I couldn't even, I don't know how many I was doing, but only the 3 people at, on that day messaged me and I was, or maybe 4. And I was like, okay, these are my core people. Yeah. Because you know, they're.
They, they actually care.
They didn't have to even say anything, right? Yeah. They actually care. Um, and it's kind of a hard pill to swallow a little bit because when you are the initiator in that, um, it's to me and probably you, it's easy.
Yeah.
Yeah. It doesn't take much to text somebody, hey, what's up? What you doing?
How's life?
You know?
Um, oh, let me look at my calendar.
Okay.
I'm free. Like, like, let's not kid ourselves.
Yeah.
There throughout the week there's free time. Like, let's, let's stop shitting ourselves. Let's stop lying. Oh, I'm busy. No, you just don't want to be real. Just say you don't want to. Right.
Well, I have more respect if they're just like, no, I don't, or I can't.
Right. Or no, I don't like you. Like, yeah.
Then like, oh, well then let's just then have a good life.
Right.
Like, yeah. I'm much rather gonna respect somebody who's like, mm, I can't do that. Or I don't have, you know, at this point in time, that's not something I can handle.
Handle it, right?
That doesn't hurt my feelings at all, right? It's just like, oh my gosh, I like you so much more now because I'm like, you like told me straight to my face the truth and I don't have to guess, or you know, like whatever.
Like even just saying like, sorry, I'm going through a really rough time right now and I really just, I don't have the capacity. That's fine if you don't have the capacity to, to, you know, be present with me, hang out with me, see me, talk to me, fine. Tell me. Sometimes I don't have the capacity.
Yeah. Too.
Um, but you know what's interesting, Joy, since I started to do that, it's interesting because there's this, especially with this one friend that I consider, she's my sister, right? And I really do try and like, she, she gets more busy and blah, blah, blah. But even with her, it's always been like me. You know, and I stopped and it took a couple months, but she's the one like, hey, hey, she's, she's initiating. And I'm like, oh really? Oh really? How the tables turned. Interesting. You know? Um, and it's just, yeah.
I think it also goes in conversation though. Um, cuz you and I are having a beautiful back and forth. Right? I've had conversations where I'm doing all the listening and when I do get a turn to talk, it somehow gets turned back onto that other person. Right? And it's like, I didn't get to finish my story, but okay. Um, and for a while I, I viewed that as love, as me holding space. But then I'm like, oh, that's love to them. That's not love to me. Mm-hmm. Right? From me or them. Mm-hmm. Right? I'm not honoring my time and space.
Yeah.
Right? I feel drained after listening to somebody talk for 45 minutes and I don't, like, you've talked about this a million times before. Like, I guess you need to vent it out and I get that, but like, I don't have anything new to add.
Right? Mm-hmm.
Um, and it's like, I had to re— take a step back from that, those relationships too, because I'm like, I need to figure out what's the most loving thing I can do for myself and them because, and that might be not engaging that behavior that much.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because I also have, um, a friend like that, which I've kind of moved away from. And the funny thing is I tend to be the one where I hold space too. Like I'm, I tend to be the one and, and a lot of people will tell me, oh, you're so mysterious, right? And it's like, well, you haven't asked that many questions. And, and at the same time, I'm also gauging how much I can share based on their capacity to receive. I've only had, like, it's very rare for me to meet somebody where I'm like, expressive, right? But, um, I've, I've, I've had, I had a friend where even if it was just coming from me and then I was just waiting for her to like engage back and I'm like, what the hell? Like, yes, it's great that she can hold space for me, but then I would be like, I need your, like, Say something. Yeah. Like she, she, like, I would tell her about something. I would, you know, express something, maybe something I was going through, and then she'd be like, okay.
Yeah, that doesn't work either. No.
Um, I'm like, it's, and I would say like, okay. She'd be like, yeah, yeah, that's hard.
I'm like, it's the content of my heart and soul. What do you think? Okay.
Um, do you have, like, I'm like, I was actually shocked. I'm like, maybe she just doesn't have the emotional intelligence.
Yeah.
I don't, I don't know that, but that's weird. And I, I had to distance myself cuz I'm like, why? Like, okay, that's great. I can pour myself into this container of like expressing myself, but then she didn't have the capacity to receive and that doesn't work as well.
No, no, it's, oh, it's a, it's a reciprocity, reciprocity process.
Like, oh, I'll just add this cuz that's kind of what I wanted to say is I do think, and then like just going back to dating, it's like women, I do think need to have more boundaries. Because like, hell, we've gotten used, we've gotten abused, we've gotten— yeah, we, we, we, um, we're getting breadcrumbs from men and we were pedestalizing that. We were like, oh, he, he, he texted me after, uh, a whole week. Oh my God. Like, nah, what?
What?
Like, Fuck that. Thank you.
No.
Right. And that's what I mean is I think women do need to have firmer boundaries of like, you want me, show me, show me. But I'm not like, there are certain things you have to meet in order to gain my trust. So, cuz boundaries, you can always move them and you, you do tend to move them, right? Cuz for example, I'll tell you this. Joy, because I know, um, sex is sacred. Sex is so sacred. No one's touching this temple unless they've earned, earned my trust and they fully have committed to me. No one's, no one's, no one's touching this. Are you crazy? Like, what? Women, their womb space is so powerful. So powerful. We, and like, I didn't know this until like I really started to dive into that feminine consciousness and power. Like our womb space will actually take on their trauma and transmute it on their behalf.
Oh yeah, totally.
Are you— I'm sorry, but you— no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
That's why you want to— why would I say not just boundaries, but just standards.
Right. Well, yeah, same.
I do. I realized my whole, I called it my compass as far as like my men picker thing. I was like, this is some old ass technology. I gotta toss that one and get a whole new one because I don't want to even be attracted to the type of men I was before. Right.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm not, but, um, Yeah, I was like, let's— I had to reevaluate a lot, um, and that is a lot of inner work. Like, why am I attracted to men who control, right, or are extremely passive? Why do I go to these extremes? Why do the men who actually have their shit together not— you know, I'm going to these extremes for a reason and not, not men who can actually meet me, right? So I had to really look and I had to go deep for that. And, um, I won't get into it all, but it, I disassembled it basically and was like, ah, okay, this is my why. And I can understand that now, but I also can release it, you know? And, um, honor, you know, the me that had to go through it all. But, and then, I don't know, now it's different. So it, it is layered. The boundaries, yeah, like you said, to me, they're different than the standards.
Really? I find, I don't know if it's the same.
Well, but I, I've been playing with it cuz earlier I was like, I was gonna ask you like, do you think standards and boundaries are the same? But maybe there's the nuance that they could be a little different. I don't know. We wanna do that live. Figure it out.
Um, I don't know.
I kind, I kind of, well, I kind of like boundaries are more, I don't know. Let's just say boundaries are more personal and standards are for others, right? For like what you're looking for.
I don't know. I don't, I mean, you're gonna, I don't know. I feel like, yeah, that's something I have to Yes, it would, but I don't know.
Kind of a, I don't know, maybe they're intertwined. I think they are because once, I think they rise together. When you build those boundaries, you're already, you're simultaneously creating a new standard and it's getting smaller and smaller as who's in that pool.
Yeah.
That meets those standards and you are fucking okay with that. Oh yeah. At least I am. I don't care that there's only 4 men in this pool. It makes it a little easier.
Honestly, it's better that way because then it's like, you know, like personally, I like for all the women out there, when you do have such high standards or boundaries, whatever, the right man will meet them.
Mm-hmm.
He will. Only little boys run away and they're like, oh, let me find an easy woman. Okay, go find one. You're not anyway. This is like, you're gonna be running from easy woman to easy woman, which this is why I feel like wounded females really need to also wake up and not allow these men to use them.
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Well, you can feel it. You can feel it when they're using you.
You can feel it when you're embodied.
Okay. Yeah, you're right.
If you're operating from a wounded feminine space, they take it as validation. They take it as, oh, he loves me. That's what I mean. They take the breadcrumbs for that validation of like, oh, my God, he did this. So that means this. No, honey. No, honey. No, no, no, no, no, no, baby girl. No, no. A man that really loves you and cherishes you and values you, he will rise to your stand— and he will actually think of your standards and your boundaries as like, wow, that's a woman. That's a woman that I have to rise to. Oh my gosh, she doesn't allow just any man access to her. That's sexy.
You know? Yeah.
That, that, that's how a man actually thinks is like, wow. Okay. Like the, with this woman, I can't play any games, you know? Like she's gonna make me rise to like the highest version of myself. There's, there's no games. And that, that is like queen energy, you know?
Oh yeah.
And that, that's That's who like women deserve to have. Boys, sorry, no, not allowed. Go do your boyish things somewhere else, you know?
Yeah.
Like go learn, go heal, go heal your, your, your bullshit with it.
Well, that's who we are tower moments for is the boys.
Yeah. No, if they can, which they, they can sometimes do a good job masquerading as I'm healed. Okay. Sure. Sure. Come, come meet me. Come meet a healed woman. We'll see how healed you are.
Or they gaslight you. Yeah. I don't know. Hey. Yeah. I'm over that.
Oh yeah. I, You know what? My sword of discernment is sharp. It's sharper.
Well, that's what it does, right? I've realized that myself. Like, hmm, okay, if I am confused and I ask for clarity and it doesn't get rid of the confusion, right? Or adds to my confusion when it's supposed to be doing the opposite, or he's withholding information for whatever fucking reason. Right. I'm not gonna back away.
Sniff that shit. Yeah.
It took me a bit to be like, um, I don't, it's hard cuz I loved him, but it was like, I can't, I can't accept that.
That's boundary, right? Yeah.
But see, that's standard that's not being met.
Right, exactly. But, but see, that's what I mean, Joy, is like, I feel like women do have to have those very high boundaries and standards Because like I said, the right man, he'll rise to meet them. He'll rise to meet them because he, like, men who are healed, they know that like a lot, like almost every single woman on this planet has been mistreated, abused, been in a toxic relationship. And yes, sorry, healed men, you're gonna have to do the extra. Work. You're going to have to.
That care and compassion and love, right? Exactly. To know that those, the version of us that lived through that is still in here, right? And even though we're on this healing journey, there might be aspects of that older version of us that come out every now and then, just like them, just like them, right? And their little boys and their little younger men self that went through toxic stuff. Absolutely. In an aligned, you know, high vibe relationship, both are going to be aware and considerate of that.
Exactly, exactly. And that's why, like, I do want to make it clear, both for men and women, it's like don't think that when you do attract this like healed person that it's going to be a perfect beautiful relationship in the beginning. It like, there's gonna be things that are gonna be coming up in both of you that you guys are gonna have to be like mature enough to hold space for, to understand, and, and to, and to heal. Because I heard a saying, um, and it's from, I don't know if you know these people and follow them. Um, yeah, it was from Preston Smiles and his wife, Alexi Panos. They're, they're, they're great. They're, they're honestly like, um, they, they talk about relationship dynamic and I love their talk about that. Um, I, I don't, I'm not sure if it came from Preston or Alexi or both, but basically it's like. We come through into this world through partnership, right? Through, like, obviously both our mom and dad, like, we came through in, in union, right? And yes, we have been traumatized, betrayed, whatever. We have this trauma and pain. And like, yes, there's a certain amount of work that you need to heal on your own to just, just be aware of like your shadows and stuff like that, but True healing comes back into union.
Mm. Yeah.
We came from union. We have to come back into union to actually truly deeply heal. It's, it's not like I'm healed and then another per healed person comes and oh my God, there's nothing that comes up. What?
Well, to me it would be. Not leaving and both staying in that fire, leaning in and being like, okay, let's explore this. Right. And it would be a discussion. Um, and I know, you know, a lot of men when they get upset, they need to take time away. I'm okay with that, but it's like, but when we come back, I need to be, I have to discuss it.
Okay.
There is no shoving it under the rug anymore. That's a boundary, right? I've lived that. That doesn't do shit.
Nope. Nope.
Doesn't help either one of us. I need to talk about it and we absolutely— container we do it in. If you need, obviously we wanna be in a calm, you know, mood. I, I can get calm pretty quick, but sometimes other people take longer. I'm okay with this, you know, and just really learning that and figuring that out. Oh, I actually can't wait. You know what I mean? Like, I can't wait to experience moving through a conflict in a, you know, in a healthy way inside a romantic relationship container.
Someone who leans in and doesn't run away or disconnect, right? Because some— I've, I've had the experience with my ex where his body was there, but he was— I was just like, I'm talking to the wall. And then, and then like Joy, it was the most frustrating thing ever because I would be expressing myself, expressing maybe an issue that we were having. And then he, like, after I, I think I talked and I said, I expressed myself for like 20 minutes or 10 or whatever, and he would just be blank and I'd be like, um, The, did you hear anything I said? And he's like, what?
Oh.
And I was like, oh my fucking God. Did I just express, like, what?
Well, that just, it's like a knife in the heart.
Yeah. That's not holding safe space at all. That's, and that's, that actually creates mistrust.
Yeah, it's within us. It makes you not wanna do that again because you, you're fearful of, I'm probably gonna get stabbed in the heart again and pour my heart out to have him go, what?
Right. Yeah.
And like, it's like, do I even wanna mess with that? Is it easier to just shut up and deal with it?
Right.
Well, that's what I'm not saying. We're not saying that's healthy. We're just saying that's what it feels like.
Well, you know what, when, when you are dealing with a person like that, this is, this is the pattern of most women is we eventually be like, well, he's not receiving me. He's not receiving what I'm saying. So what's, what's, what's the point of me expressing at all? And that's when we start to shut down. We start to emotionally distance and detach from the relationship. And, and the man will go, oh, this is great. She's not expressing herself. Actually, that's a, that's your warning sign.
Red flag. Yes. Not a red flag as in a bad thing, but like a, Yeah, warning signs, probably.
Well, like the, the, uh, sirens going off. Sirens going off of like, bro, she's about to leave your ass. She's planning. She's planning now. Like if your woman is not, if like, that's the thing is like men need to learn that they need to be the container to hold her waters. And if they don't, haven't developed that container, Or if they're scared of that, like you're ne— you're never gonna have a healthy relationship. Sorry.
Well, she's gonna figure it out more than likely before he does. Right.
What about, um, him not—
that he can't hold it?
Hold her back? Well, if she's healed, if she's healed, like, you know, well, even unhealed, you've, I mean, we, I got divorced before I, you know, figured this shit out.
Like eventually you just reach, you reach your limit.
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
And then you're like, well, you learn from it. That's a whole other thing. Right. Um, but even unhealed women eventually are just like, I, this isn't, oh yeah.
But it does, it does take a bit.
It does take her a bit to, yeah. She give and give and give and then to just be hit with walls and then you're like, fuck it. This is too painful and I don't wanna live. In such pain anymore.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
And for us, it's, it's emotional, but it's, it's in our bodies.
Yeah.
Right? We literally, it's, so it's emotional pain, but physical pain even to hear that what totally feels like you feel it and you're like, oh, you literally just stabbed me and I gotta go cry. And then you're probably gonna make fun of me or, you know, I'll be like, why are you so upset? And then you're like, just off.
Just like, leave. Goodbye. Goodbye.
I can't handle this anymore. Yeah.
Yeah, it's.
But I know for, like, you and I, there's no way in hell we're gonna mess this anymore.
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's.
So we have learned. We have learned. And that, to wind us all the way back to the beginning, is what makes us the Tower moments, right? Like we said earlier, we're calling out the BS, right? We ask for clarity when we need it. We're blunt. We're bold. We're gonna— that's what I— I just love exploring my wild, bold, you know, whimsical side of myself. And I'm like, I don't give a fuck if you cannot, if you don't even like think this is the most beautiful thing, go away.
Right.
Go away.
Right.
I don't need you. You know, I want a man who's, who he doesn't need to join in, but he needs to admire it about me.
Oh, absolutely. But that is what's sexy is if a man can like look at your wildness and be like, Wow, that woman is a force of nature. And you know what? Okay, actually, this is, this is excellent because this is what I wanted to bring back in, uh, kind of when we were talking about, um, you know, that feminine rage. And like, to be honest, and I will say this, even with me healing and me getting comfortable with my own fire and that intensity of my fire. Sometimes I'll even see it in other women who are also healing and reclaiming that. And it's interesting because there's, there's a girl I followed and she was tapping into her feminine rage. And I will say, even as a woman who's on this journey of healing that, reclaiming that, it was also triggering me, but I was conscious of it. I was like, oh, there is that programmed part of me that's like, wanted to be. Tell her like, simmer down, you know, and, But I recognize it.
I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Why, why? Like, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is beautiful. She saw injustice and she spoke from her fire. This is what we want, right? But it's like, it's even in women where we're like, no, no, no, like who are you to, you know, be doing that and blah, blah, blah, right? And, um, so yeah, that, that's even still like, I still have to recognize that and be like, program part of me, shut the fuck up. You know, like this is—
I think, I think that's what sets somebody apart is, is you think before you, you catch it before you lash out. Yeah. See?
Oh yeah. No, I don't—
I'm not saying you would've lashed out, but you know what I mean? Like in that example. An unhealed person wouldn't have questioned it. They would have left a comment, or if even if they didn't do that, just in their own self judge, judge her, right?
Oh yeah.
But she's still energetically the same thing really. But when that happens now, that whole catching yourself and reflecting it back doesn't even matter what she's talking about, right? What she's doing.
Yeah.
The fact that you caught it and was like, ah, I have this urge to tell her to, to loan it, right? And it's like, oh, but that, that's the mirror. And then, oh, it's so gorgeous.
It is.
So, and, but you, I can't even talk, but it's like, I want that, you know? And I, I, I want, I just, you know, want my universe to show that to me because it's like, I wanna know. That's one of the clearest ways for me to see where those are, my blind spots.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I know it's a journey. I know I, I know those exist in me and I haven't mastered how to look them at myself and everything. And if you have, beautiful. But for me, one of the easiest ways to do it is to just be out there. Listening to others, seeing how they respond to me, right?
Yeah, absolutely. And then catching it when it comes up in you, right? But, um, kind of like, yeah, just continuing talking about that feminine rage or that feminine fire and intensity of like how often people will perceive it as too much or, um, Or she's, she's in her masculine or whatever. I, I, I wanted to say that's the eros that first women deeply crave within them. And that honestly is really sexy when a man can like accept her in her full in her fullness, in her intensity, because that's the eros, by the way, guys, that you also want. That's a woman that's literally making love to life.
Like, hello, man, she's gonna make love to you. That's what she's making love to, right?
That's literally what it is. That's what it is, right? And yeah, it's, it's beautiful From the women's side, it's like if a man can hold that and not be burned by it, instead gets transformed by it, right? And he's just, it's a, it goes back to that image of Kali on, you know, her foot on top of Shiva and Shiva's just like in love with her intensity and her wildness. It's like. That, and you know, it's interesting. I talked to a lady yesterday, she actually booked a heart mapping session with me and, and that's what she was missing. I saw her beautiful sensuality. Oh my God. It was so there. But I'm like, I can tell you're missing the wildness. I can tell you're missing the fire. And she's like, yeah. I'm like, you have to go into the woods and fucking scream. And she's like, I think I have to do that. But I know in the beginning it's scary. It's scary to, yeah, I get it. Express yourself, especially, especially if you've been told by your family and everyone else to shush, be quiet, be nice, right? No, let, let that like lioness out, you know?
I like to view it as like an exploration and, um, adventure in a way for myself. Like, I don't know. It's the whole living authentically that, oh, it's just so beautiful and to embrace. And I can still catch myself where I'm like, mm, am I being too much? And then I'm like, time out. I am being myself and this is me and this is, this is how I actually wanna act. This is no mask, right? And I'm like, that's what I actually want. I don't. This is my pre-programmed, right? You know, we're old programming. It's making me question, ooh, Joy, you're reaching, you know, people. This is the limit most people can hold. Yeah. And then I'm like, oh, fuck you. No, we're trying something new now. We're gonna just be weird and we're gonna do our weird thing and we're gonna be silly. We're gonna be sexy, whatever I'm fucking feeling in that moment. Right.
I, I love that. And I love that you, you mentioned that because Joy, it's interesting that that wound still also comes up in me as well. Oh, it's like, oh, like, am I too much? And then like, I, I do catch myself. I'm like, honestly, do you really give a fuck? Like, yeah, you're expressing yourself. If someone can't take the heat. Goodbye. Leave. Like, you're not meant for me. That's fine. Right. But yeah, that, that wound, like, it's interesting. It's like, even, you know, when you're healing, you're doing the work, you've done a lot of work, you've done, you know, dark night of the soul. Like, there's still these tender parts of us that still come up.
Yeah. I think I think eventually they might not, but you gotta, the whole catching it and not conforming like you used to. Mm-hmm. In the past it would've been like, oh shit, I better shut up. You know, I am making myself too big. Yeah.
Right.
I am not an easy pill to swallow. I should, you know, I should somehow make myself smaller. I'm, I'm almost 6 feet tall. There's no way to make myself smaller. Smaller, but, um, no, or, or quiet, right? Yeah. Um, and no, getting rid of those and, or being able, you're, yeah, like you said, you'll still hear them, but then you just tell 'em to fuck off. And you know what, I, I don't know, we're not men, but I would hope they do the same in their own way. Right?
For their own healing, you mean? Yeah.
But I think for women, obviously we can speak to that, um, we are very much conditioned to tone it the fuck down. Yep. We are all level 100, and we are told to keep it no more than 25.
Right?
Yeah. And for society's sake.
Mm-hmm.
And when you, if you actually study women's history, you can see, you know, when she used to get the vapors and, you know, all these things and the anxiety, it's because, because we have to deny who we are to maintain this social status quo. And I know men have their own version of that.
Yeah, of course.
We're not saying they don't, but we're not men. We haven't lived it. This is what we've lived. So you're talking about it.
Yeah. Um, and that's when we diminish our own life force, our own light. And you can, you can tell, you can tell when a woman isn't shining as brightly. You can see it. It's like written all over her face.
Well, I think that's where we're tower moments for those women too, because they see us doing it. I don't know about you, but I'll have other women be like, Joy, you're so inspiring. Or, I saw you live through this and just the way you went at it, you know, and you took action so quickly or whatever. And it's like, I don't, are you, you know, you just go on the internet and you talk about shit, right? You put your face out there and you're not even wearing makeup, right? And like, oh my gosh, I could never do that. And it's like, you could. You, it's in you to do whatever that looks like for you, right? Um, but I mean, I'm glad you're admiring it about me, but be it— use me as a fucking mirror or a tower and change for yourself, because it's really all self-love. Yeah, that's what it all is.
Yeah.
Um, that's to me what it all boils down to, right, is when you're at this level, you have a very high self- love.
Yes. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
That's how it projects outward is like, I just fucking love myself so much. I don't give a rat's ass that I don't have makeup on and I'm wearing a fucking t-shirt, right? This is me having fun. This is me doing me. And, um, I fuck the conformities, right? No, this is raw. This is real. This is me.
Yeah, and it's beautiful. It's so beautiful, right? It's loving yourself through the journey. So through your own beauty, through your happiness, through the mess, through the anger, through the mistakes, through the fuck-ups. It's loving yourself fully and authentically through that, because absolutely throughout this journey, we're going to make mistakes. Absolutely. There's going to be fuck-ups. But can you love yourself through it? Can you pick yourself up and be like, you know what, I fucked up here, right? That's the humility that is also needed on this journey. But it is really interesting that you said like that you get women that are inspired by that because I get both ends of the spectrum. I get women who are inspired and women who are triggered.
Well, those are your tower moment women. Those are your tower moment women.
If they accept it, right? Because they'll, they'll end up attacking me, right? Um, I got it. I feel like I went through an initiation phase. I don't know if I'll still— if there's going to be more, but I literally, like, when I started to put myself more out there and be really raw, authentic, and real, and really started to give zero fucks about what anybody else thought or like how they perceived me, because I, I just understand how your perception of me is just Yeah. Your own shit. That, that, that, that's what it is. Right. Um, but yeah, when I started to put myself out there, I actually, I had a lot more attacks, both from men and women of like, men were kind of more on the predatory side. Some, sometimes they were very like, not nice at all. Uh, and I also had women of being like, oh, it's because You're pretty, or this or that. And I, like, I learned not to respond to those things. I, I, and I didn't even allow it to touch me. I was like, I know where this is coming from. I know this is coming from a wounded place. And it's really interesting, Joy, cuz I'm seeing less of it now. So I wonder if it's because I went through that initiatory stage.
Like they settled. I think it are, is phases, like how I am with the men, right? And then I'm not getting Tower moment, men as much, not good. You know, when you unsubscribe from— unsubscribe. Somehow I figured it out. I read the fine print.
I have to find my— I don't know. I have to find mine. I think the unsubscribe button, cause I feel like it happened recently, but I was like, can I unsubscribe? Yeah.
Oh, well, use them as mirrors. If you can, I mean, refining.
Yeah.
Refining that, those bricks of boundaries, right?
Yeah.
Put some more. What do you, what is this stuff in between bricks?
Oh, caulk.
I don't know.
I don't think that, no. Isn't it concrete? Isn't it concrete?
Or, well, yeah. I don't know if they have, I need to watch Home Improvement.
I know.
Yeah.
That stuff between bricks. That stuff that makes it stick.
The refinement. We can call it the concrete between the bricks, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
I think caulk is what you put between tiles. Don't know how I know that. Could be completely wrong too. But don't know. Well, I have a service where I help people through these tower moments because, oh man, kind of reversing it a little bit now, but like, I've lived them and I'm sure you have too, and they are not easy when either, if it's triggered by someone else, doesn't even matter how it gets triggered, right? Um, walking through a tower moment, um, scary. It can be very scary. Yeah.
Okay. I don't know if Joy has frozen just for me.
Can you not hear me? Because I'm not frozen for me.
I don't know. Might have lost Joy. No, I'm right here.
Can you hear me? I don't know if you're not frozen for me, but apparently I'm frozen for you.
Alrighty. Well, I don't know. Again, I don't know if I'm the one that's frozen or if she's frozen. I have no idea. Um, Alexandra, you're not. I guess I'm gonna take this as a sign that this is, this is done. Like I said, I don't know if it's from my side or her side, but I'm gonna have to close this.
Bye everybody.
