The Authentically Wild Woman

So glad to have you here today, uh, to talk about being a wild woman and authentic. Yes, being an authentic wild woman, right?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Oh yeah. No, I'm excited. This is very exciting. Um, just, I remember our initial interactions and they were very like very energetic and positive and just happy, right? And that's just ooey-gooey beautifulness, right?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I can't remember what we chatted exactly, but I remember that like the— we felt the pulse between both of us and yeah, like, yeah, we need to do, we need to do something. And finally we're doing it with a couple of reschedules from my end, but that's okay. We're embracing the chaos.

Well, that's Part of the journey, right, into authenticity. We were just saying, yeah, like it, for me, it started as, I, I don't even know if I would label it as like, oh, I wanna be more authentic. It was just like this desire within to just literally be authentic without like I didn't even feel the name right away. It was just like, I want to lead without the mask and see what happens. The thing, right? Is that how it manifested in you, or was it a little different?

Um, I would say, like, again, I can't really pinpoint one time where it's like, oh, you know, I woke up one day and, oh yeah, I want to be authentic. I think it was a journey, and as we just talked with the reporting, authenticity is the journey. But for me, it coincided with having like a life shakeup moment and like, like spiritual awakening kind of moment where you kind of like, I got my whole like value system shaken up. And to me, being authentic also has a lot to do with values. And I started questioning, so, okay, which values I'm standing up for and which ones I'm not. And am I leading from the authentic heart or not? So I feel like that was my first interaction with authenticity and what it is and how to go about it.

Oh yeah. I love that, leading with the heart. Because that's essentially the core of it, right? That's what you're doing.

Yeah, it coincides with me. Like, I'm a Leo according to astrology, so I feel like Leos are very much like the sun. And it really, I feel like for me, it's just like lead from the heart, from the sun, from within. And like, this is how you lead the authentic life. It comes from there. That's, that's my take on it. And that's my, um, yeah, that's my take on it.

Well, manifest is like a desire to just be seen that way. And I, when I think back, yeah, it's been a long journey, and there was times where I was, like before my spiritual awakening, just leaving organized religion was a way for me to show authenticity, right?

Yeah, you being you.

Yeah, I was an atheist at the time, but I was still being me, like that doesn't change that part. But there were other things I was still withholding and, you know, and it's just like Ooh, like an onion, like Shrek, like you're just peeling the layers. And now, I don't know, I had my spiritual awakening like 2018. So goodness, that's what, 7 years now? So like, yeah, since then it's, yeah, just been even more of this onion unfolding. I don't. Yeah, I told, like, we talked about off camera, like this year was like one thing, right? Like masterclass, you know, crash course type of thing. Like, let's get you up to speed, Joy. We're gonna like throw you in the blender and just, that's kind of what it felt like.

I know, this is how I feel now. It's like, or like the way I feel like in that, in the rollercoaster ride where it's like you're going up and down, you don't even know what's around the corner.

Oh yeah. No, exactly. Well, and that creates surrender to the unknown.

Yes.

Right? Because you just, you don't know what's coming around the corner. And, and that in authenticity, well, to be authentic in that is just naming it, owning it, and then like embracing that. Right? And just like, I don't know what's going on, guys. We're gonna, we're gonna see.

Yeah. The way I would say it is to like, being authentic means that you are stripping away, as you said really beautifully, the, the layer, the onion layers of your conditioning and trying to understand. So like, for example, if you always been a perfectionist, right? And then there comes a day where you ask. Am I actually a perfectionist or have I been conditioned to be a perfectionist because this is the only way I got recognition and love? And then so your path to authenticity comes then from, okay, so, you know, if I'm living my life authentically, am I a perfectionist? Is this something that I'm proud of, I value, or it's a mask and I need to strip it off? That's my take on it.

Do you think the wild woman aspect just comes about, um, as your onion is kind of removing layers? Like you finally get to the wild woman layer, or do you think it's like within all of it?

So, hmm, I feel like, I definitely feel like there's a wild woman in every single one. Oh, I just saw that someone messaged something.

Yeah, and seated too.

Yeah, from the heart. Yeah, thank you for that. So going back to your question, I believe that every woman inside— I'm just speaking purely from the woman perspective because I coach women, so that's where all of my expertise is coming from. I think that every one of us has the wild woman within. I think that, but for every single one of us, it will be a different kind of wild. So for one, because again, authenticity. So like, for example, for someone being wild means that, I don't know, you are living off the grid, you are like having like a nomad style lifestyle and everything, right? For someone, it could be living like, you know, white picket fence, family, being like a homemaker, but they feel so content. They feel like the wild mama bear, like, you know, protecting the den and, you know, the cubs and your loved ones. So again, leading back to authenticity, like for somebody, like finding your wild and finding who authentically, who you are authentically, sorry, this is going to be that. So just finding what attracts you and what your wild is, because for someone, maybe like, for example, maybe your, the best holiday that you could ever have is going hiking and this is finding your wild, right? And like, you love hiking, you love everything to do with nature. But then for someone it could be going to like a 5-star resort hotel, laying on the beach, reading a, a book and do nothing. And that's your wild, like you're being a lizard and that's, yeah.

That's so beautiful. I love that you said we have our— the wild is different. I mean, because I feel like especially when you're on beginning that journey, you feel, you might feel pressured in your own way to mimic other women who you aspire to be, right? Or like, oh, I wish I was expressing myself the way she does, or like You know, so cool how bold she can say that. I wish I, you know, I wanna be like that.

Yeah.

But it's really self-discovery. Um, and being, that's where the authentic part comes in. Like, well, what's actually true for me? Maybe it's not being on a live. Yeah. You know, with half wet hair and too much stuff, right? Yeah. Well, that's, to me, it also points to self-love because as you discover it, I mean, you love and cherish that about yourself and you're like, oh, I wanna honor this. This is my kind of wild. Like, I'm a sci-fi geek. That's part of my wildness. I love weird, complicated stories. I love things that, you know, out in the mystical, dimensions, dabble in the science stuff and the mystic, you know, I'm like all over the fucking place with that. That's, that's part of my wild, right? I don't know shit about herbs. I'm not really into herbs, right? That's not—

That's not your wild. Yeah, but your wild is being, yeah, loving your thing and being unapologetically happy about it and owning it. And that's your authentic wild.

Yeah, no, totally. Game on. And well, it brings joy, no pun intended, but like you just have joy within when you discover it and you're like, oh, I want to like express this more. And you feel that energy and that sacral creative energy starts building and you just want to express and create from that place, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. This is why I feel like it coincides with, again, peeling the layers of the conditioning. Um, I mean, I talk a lot about it on my Instagram and my Substack. Um, well, before I took a little bit of a break because of life. Um, because again, when you, when you take all of the layers off, then you start feeling liberated. You start feeling more alive, more full of excitement, and then you can find your authenticity from there. And as long as you're not trying to prove anything to anyone, as long as you're doing for the good intentions and for pure intentions, again, that's finding your authenticity, finding your why.

Well, I think the, yeah, the next part is you discover that within, but then like having to share it, right? Or it, it kind of brings up. Fears and doubts and, and just how you deal with those of being seen, of, you know, I don't give a fuck anymore what people think and pull it in that kind of energy. Um, bit by bit, right? It's, to me, it wasn't like a light switch or anything.

Yeah.

The, the desire was there, but so was the fears and it was just kind of like this gradual I don't know if battle is the right word, but like almost like tug of war in a way of like just letting those fears go one by one as I keep doing it. I'm like, no, I can say this and I actually feel okay in my body and it feels good to, you know, talk this way now or show up in this way or, oh, I went outta my comfort zone and I took that risk, but even though it failed, you know, we still learned it. Cuz that's ha— that's gonna happen, right? It doesn't mean just cuz you're going in and you're doing all this doesn't mean everything you produce from it is gonna blossom into some multi, you know, big-ass thing. But that's the ex— exploration and giving yourself the freedom to make mistakes with it and be messy is a word I use a lot. Like, you're allowed to be messy as you're uncovering this. It's that inner work that, that it's wild, right? And it's, and it's tapping into parts of yourself that you may have never let yourself even view whole in a whole way, right? Yeah.

I love everything you said. Exactly. It's, I feel like Again, we've been conditioned that we can't be messy. Or at least what I've seen on social media, and I've heard other people talk about it, that even this whole spiritual awakening, finding your purpose, essence, authenticity, has to be pretty and it has to be very satisfying. And it's not. Finding your authenticity can be nerve-wracking. It can be hard. It can be crying a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah, I can pick myself up that because like, oh, you know, you wanted to like stand up for yourself in a meeting or something, but you couldn't because, you know, you were so like in a shell, you know? So it's, you know, we need to embrace the messiness and like what I teach about being the wild woman, right? The wild woman is, she's not perfect. She doesn't wake up one day and think, okay, right, I'm a wild woman. I'm perfect. I'm wild. And that's it. Like, no. One day you're very messy and, you know, you're crying, you're figuring it out, you're trying to understand the life lessons, life meanings. And then the next day you're like, oh, okay, well, I, you know, I let myself feel, I let myself grieve. And then we also need to talk about the grief of authenticity as well. Um, you know, the next day you're like a bit more compassionate towards yourself and you're thinking, okay, like actually I can do this and I can go take this on. So I feel like, as we talked about, it's a journey. Everything comes back, comes back to the same thing, that being authentic and living your life authentically is a journey. It's not like a to-do list task.

Right? Oh, I love that. Yeah, it's not a to-do list. It might feel like that in a few moments if you're, you know, pushing a boundary or something for yourself.

Yeah.

Not a boundary, but like a threshold is a better word.

Yes, I love that word.

Yeah, more than boundary for yourself in that regard. Hmm, let's go to the grief thing. Expand more into that. That sounds juicy. I want to go dig in that.

So, I mean, I'm like, what I wanted to say is that I don't think, or at least I haven't seen talked a lot about when you are peeling those layers of the onion and you are finding your authenticity, you're finding your authentic self. We need to grieve the old identity. We need to give ourselves time to grieve that this, our previous version of ourselves got us this far, right? We survived because we had the previous identity. And now we're coming into something different and beautiful. And I feel like it's not talked a lot. So I really wanted to bring it up.

Yes, I'm so glad because that's totally a real thing. I've totally experienced it. Especially like when I know I'm getting ready to like do a ritual, I can feel it coming, right?

Yeah.

This, this, I call it a phoenix moment, this death and rebirth. And I will literally like spend half a day, sometimes a whole day before I go into that space, like crying and lamenting and like, I'm gonna die. This part, this me right here. I'm not gonna be the same woman at the other side. And just crying it out and like, because you, when you love yourself, even though you, you love yourself enough to do the Phoenix moment, right?

Yeah.

But that doesn't mean you don't wanna honor, just like you said, the one who got you to that point, right? Mm-hmm. The one who's actually gonna take the step to cross that threshold. I mean, goddamn, so fucking brave, right? To do that. And that's you in that moment. And, and to just honor that and like, it's— no, I'll spend hours just like crying and like processing. And it's like you said, it's messy and there's, there's snot. There's like, you know, it's, it's not really beautiful aesthetically, but then it's also one of the most beautiful things, right? Even though it's this Grieving. Yeah.

Yeah, you need to let go of everything. And I love the fact that you are embracing that and, and you're doing it because I struggle with it personally. I do, like, even though I am talking about these things, right? And teaching other women. I, I always say that, you know, I'm not perfect. If I'm teaching, that doesn't mean that I am on a pedestal. But like, I still really struggle because I really struggle with letting go. And letting go of that identity, right? Where you, you know, for many years when you thought, okay, oh, I'm this person or, or I'm this person and my values are these. When you start to let go of them or when you come to the moment when you think, actually, I really need to let this go. It's difficult. Like I, yeah, for me what helps is I do a lot of burning rituals. I do like to play with fire a lot. Like I do love physical fire and I do a lot of rituals with fire. So. That helps me, and I'm hoping that it will help the listeners as well. Just, you know, if you want to let things go, if you want to understand kind of who you are behind all the layers, doing like just writing things on a piece of paper, what you want to let go, odd values, identities, anything that you want to let go, and then just burn that paper. Obviously do it safely and preferably outside in a bowl. But it should really help you like feel that relief of like, okay, like I let it go. And then you can rebuild then, as you said, like from the, from the ashes, like the phoenix, you can rebuild your own flower, your own wild woman.

Oh yeah. Well, I'm all about the fucking fire, man. Like that's everywhere on my shit because it's just, Oh, it's such a rich symbol, right? Oh my God. I could just sink my teeth into it.

It's so fucking rich.

So, oh, I've totally done those fire rituals. And do you have to do it? No, but it's giving you an outward way to show that inner alchemy, right? Um, that's what all, to me, that's what rituals are. They're not necessarily, they're not a necessity, but they are a tool, right? A modality you can use to vis— like literally make it 3D in a way, you know? You're writing it down, you're watching it burn, not just visualizing, you smell, you know, the smoke, you see it, you feel the heat, you're having this visceral moment with it, and you know what you wrote down, right? And you see it and then you feel, oh my Yeah, there's a reason us women typically do all this shit, and I'm sure maybe to other people that don't, haven't learned, it might look silly, but once again, we don't give a fuck because we know what we're doing and, and it's just so helpful. So then it becomes, it's a, it literally becomes a ceremony, right?

Yeah. It's your initiation ceremony then to find your authentic yourself, to find your authentic wild. And, and like, you don't have to work with fire because some people are more drawn to water. So like, I've done like release rituals like into water. So, but you can like, the simplest thing you can do is you can take a leaf, any kind of leaf from a plant or from a tree, and write it down on the leaf of what you want to release and then drop it in the river or the ocean, whatever you have near you. And like, that's working with with water elements. So whatever you, you know, whatever you feel drawn to. For some people it could be water, for some people it could be fire. And then, you know, this is how you again strip all the layers as we've talked about many times today. And then you find your authenticness and then—

Well, that, yeah, that's part of it. Which element speaks to you more, right? I didn't discover fire this until this year. I mean, obviously I knew about fire. But, um, just embracing it at the level I have came this year. Like I said, I've been on this journey like 7 years or so, right? So that was just a layer on top. Oh, I fucking love fire. Okay. Like, let's just roll with it. I, in the past, I don't think I ever would've said I'm a fire person and this, you know, that wasn't your thing. Um, I just hadn't uncovered that about myself yet. And now it's like, no, that's totally me. I know I'm nice and sweet, but no, there's fucking fire in here, everybody. Right? Like, yeah.

Yeah, it's like, yo, I mean, again, like all of us have that wild side to us that we can be sweet and loving one minute and then like feral the next. And that's the beauty of the wild woman, like being authentic wild woman, meaning that you are owning the emotions that you have right now. And if you want to like burn the whole thing down, that's fine.

Like, well, I've totally done that. I've totally done that. I'm not a crypto, not literally, but well, as in my reality, but not like physically burning.

That's not what I'm thinking. Yeah, we're not doing, no, no, we're not doing that. We're metaphorically burning everything down.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No arson, no nothing in here.

Right. I'm not encouraging that. No. And then it then becomes the process then of rebuilding yourself. So, you know, you kind of released your identity, you, um, you grieved about it, which you can give yourself enough time to, to grieve, to just be, to be with whatever kind of emotions you're going through. And then it becomes another journey of, okay, well, I released my old self. Now it's time to rebuild a new authenticity. Now it's time to rebuild a new me. And then you become, I feel like you just literally step into like a temple almost. But like, okay, so like, who am I? Like, I can be whoever I want to be and I can, you know, love or hate whatever I want to. Like, I'm just being me. Like, I'm being that sovereign queen, like, you know, sovereign wild woman. And she's, you know, who's a wild woman. She's choosing herself and she's taking care of herself. And it just becomes a whole, whole another journey. I feel like, you know, till the day we die, I don't think that we ever stop.

No, it doesn't stop. No one believes it stops.

Yeah.

I'd be very surprised if there was a point to this. I don't think there is.

It wouldn't ever. And then like you will have like life events happen, right? You know, because a lot of people go through different stages, you know, when we get our first period, when. We get married when, you know, we give birth to children if we want to. And it's like, it's going to be like a whole different, like, I would say, I wanted to say a chapter of a book, but it could be a whole different book.

Yeah. Oh yeah. I know I've lived lifetimes within my life, right? Where everything just reorients and changes. Everything is different. The only thing I'm still on Earth, that's Let's see how I think that stays the same. And I'm still in the story, right? But I'm, as we're talking, I'm thinking about, we're, we're using this term wild woman a lot and I'm like, what's the opposite? A tame woman? Or like, cause I'm thinking of like animals, right? Wild, you know, a wild horse versus a one in a— domesticated. There you go. Oh, that's the word I was looking for. Domesticated. Yeah. So I think a lot of us grew up domesticated, right? Like we were conditioned, we were from society, from our mothers, from, you know, all, all of it. And it's this deconditioning of it all, which I think men and women both go through. But yeah, to uncover that wild woman, I mean, you gotta really It's, she's in there. She's in there. Oh, really? Yeah.

Yeah, I would say that like, you know, like wild and like caged woman or like objectified one. And I mean, it's funny because I, I actually released, um, a journaling book called Untamed because that I just wanted like women to go through the journaling prompts and feel that like liberation and like Being open almost. So I like, I love the word untamed. Everything like tamed and untamed. It's like, yeah.

Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't know about you. I can remember when I was tame.

I, yeah, I do.

I can still remember those days and it, I felt very small and I'm I'm almost 6 feet tall. Like I'm, I'm not a small person, but it, I'm not talking about physically, right? I'm talking about emotionally small. Yeah.

Spiritually small. Yeah. Yeah.

Just, um, capped or, you know, like caged. That's the word.

Capped. Yeah.

Caged. And not even realizing why. It was like it was built before I even could understand why it was needed. Right? Because, I mean, I have a 2-year-old daughter. She's fucking wild. Right? She's 2. She don't give a shit about nothing. She does what she wants. You know? It is gorgeous to watch. Also a little scary sometimes. But, um, I'm just like, you go, girl. Like, I don't want to squash that in her. Right? Obviously there are, well, you need to be safe about this. Like, no, we're really not going to touch that. Right? But, um, I don't know, it just makes me reflect on myself. Like at some point you don't even— the cage is being built, right? And our childhood is essentially— and we don't even know that it's happening, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, one point I wanted to make is that I don't know if you heard or the reader listeners, um, read a book called Untamed by Glennon Doyle. It's an amazing book who wants to read another woman's story of liberation. And literally one of the first, I think it was the first chapter or like the introduction chapter, she's talking about this animal, which I can't remember now, was it a cheetah or, or some, something like from the big cat family and it was trapped in a cage or in it, like in a enclosure. And like, you know, the woman was saying like how we feel caged with the conditioning that we're supposed, you know, you're supposed to be in a 9 to 5, you're supposed to be married, you're supposed to have kids, you're supposed to do this. And we just feel like we've been put in a cage and like this whole wild woman movement, it's like, no, we want to be liberated. And we want to smash those cages. We want to feel alive doing this. And I feel like, you know, it's a bit of a healthy, healthy rebellion against the systems.

Oh, a zillion percent. I guess I view the feminine energy kind of like the wind. Like, it's— it doesn't quite have a shape to me the way the masculine does. Um, but it does. I don't know if that makes sense. Like, it's—

yeah, it's— I feel like it's ever-changing and it's like ever morphing into something.

Yeah. Well, and you can just Flow with it and you go, like, one, because of our cycles and our hormones, right? Like, we're a different person every week in a way with what's moving through our body and just our intuition, right? Like, mm, I'm gonna listen to my body today. I'm gonna rest, right? Even though I have these things to do, I'm gonna make this choice to honor my body and myself. Um, and not be guilty about it. Not, you know, like, that's maybe not that, like, no. I'm in fucking pain. I'm gonna acknowledge that and we're gonna get the heating pad and we're gonna get some chocolate and we're gonna put on a movie. Like, that's being authentic. Yeah. But also, and then in the other phase, you wanna get everything done, right? You wanna create, you wanna beautify things, and it's just flowing with that. I guess that's where the wind comes in, where it's just like you just move with it. So when we're saying cage, especially if They're a man listening, trying to understand women. It's like if we can't, if we don't feel like we can do that flow and be authentic in that flow, like, oh, I can't call in sick because I work this job and my boss is a man and he doesn't understand that, you know, I'm in pain that he probably can't even handle. Right. Um, that, that's where we're talking about, or for me. That's just one little example, but, um, of this societal cage that you try to— eventually you're just like, fuck it. I don't— this isn't fun. It's not fun. I'm not having fun with life and there has to be more because this cage fucking sucks.

I agree because I also feel like, um, there comes a point in your life where you realize that the new authenticity is knocking at your door. And it's up to you whether you're answering or not. And from my experience, it was whispering to me, but I was ignoring it. And then it was screaming at me and I still chose to ignore it. And then it was like full on, like red sirens saying that you're not living authentically, like you're living someone else's life, not yours. And then it made me like, cry on the floor like so many times till I actually answered the authenticity call. And I really hope that people listening, they can get the whispers earlier than I did. And another thing as well, like I'm just, I'm reading this book, a friend recommended it to me. It's called Dancing the Dream. And it's about the 7 sacred paths of human transformation. And it's talking about like I'm just, I just finished the first initiation and it's talking about like how you need to accept the fact that you will go through, like when you accept, I'm just trying to make sense how to say it. We will, there will come a time and point in your life where you will realize that the new version of you is either screaming at you that you need to listen to me and act differently, or you like, you know, either you're going to answer or you're not going to answer. Makes sense. Sorry, I feel like I lost my train of thought, what I was going to say originally.

No, I'm following you. I'm following you. No, I thought that's why I said I've changed, had many lives because I'll have those moments.

Yes.

And it's just like, um, this is not, this is probably his dream life, not mine. Right. And I'm just kind of hitched onto that and, um, and And then, yeah, I've ignored it more in my, my, my younger years. I would ignore it just like you said, and it just keeps knocking louder and louder until you're like, fuck, I, I have to do something. I have, you know, I'm, I'm too miserable or, you know, I'm too, I, I just don't wanna live this way anymore. To me, that the fire got that spark in you, right? That's where it's coming out, where it's like, hey. Pay attention over here, right?

To me, it was like mixture of fire, like that's like something in me, and also the howling, like the howling of the wolf. But I imagine like when I was going through my darkest time last year, I was like, I was feeling that I just want to like howl and scream from pain of like, I'm not living authentically, I'm not living, not living from my heart, I'm not living from from what I want from life or from, you know, from everything. And for those of you who are watching and watching the replay and everything, so like I've got these questions from other people before. So if it's so, so difficult and if it's so, if it's like, if this new version of you is screaming at you, why are you not acting on it right away? Well, it's not that easy. Sometimes you're stuck in situations where you can't escape or where you can't, where you need to have like a plan of action, how you're gonna leave. And it's like, you know, if you, especially if you have like people depending on you or pets that depending on you or like, or family depending on you and you like want to change their life completely, you can't just blink and say, oh, I'm just going, you know, not everyone is privileged and like this much to, to be like, right, okay, I'm leaving. So it's like finding that gratitude towards yourself of like, okay, I'm trying to answer this call of authenticity or like the knock of authenticity. But I'm also like trying to be, you know, like thoughtful and logical about how to, how to go that authentic way, how to find that authenticity.

Well, for me, in the, like my first and second marriage, it was, um, about safety. I had gotten myself in unsafe situations and I did need a plan to live, right? Um, I didn't have any kids. But I mean, it was like he would beat me up over let me leave type of thing, right? Like it was that scary, right? So it was, I mean, people go through such a shit, right? And yeah, you, you can get help, obviously you get as much help as you can. Um, that was something I was struggling with a lot myself is Oh, there's just a lot going on with that. But anyway, yeah, I mean, it can have a variety of shapes on when it's calling to you, right? Like that for me in those, those younger years, like in my 20s, in those relationships, it was like, I don't wanna be treated this way. This is not how I need to be treated. And even if I, you know, I don't, I need to get out of this situation even though I He has all the money, or, you know, like there's different scary— they're, they're scary, but you know, to me it's an act of love. It's like, do I love myself enough to try to at least try to make a plan to try to form a way to escape and, uh, get to safety and, or, um, to live authentically, right? I mean, I'm not I'm trying to reflect, go back to like maybe not so dramatic times where I, you know, it doesn't have that dramatic, but you're still, it is, it does take courage. Like Monica just said, uh, it's bravery, right? Because you're still scared, but you have that enough self-love, which to me fire also represents love and like to just do it anyway. Like, you know what, I love myself enough to not stay in this situation and I'm, I'm gonna take some type of action towards changing this.

Yeah, it's, I mean, I agree with everything you were saying and, um, I wrote, I think I, yeah, I wrote an article on Substack a while back about the dormant wild woman and like active wild woman and what I was saying in there that the dormant wild woman kind of, she wants to change, right? She wants to find her wild. She wants to live wildly. But she's not taking that action. She's scared, right? And she's like, oh, well, what if? And all those questions, right? So she's like, she has that fire, that spark, but she's not acting on it. But the wild woman, right? We can be scared, right? We are scared, right? The fact that you're wild doesn't mean that you are fearless. Um, so yeah, but the wild woman, right? She is scared, but she's channeling that scaredness. She's alchemizing that scared feeling into owning it.

Yes. I love that. That was gorgeous. That was fucking gorgeous. That was amazing. Oh yeah. That alchemizing it. Yeah. You're not scared of your own fear, right? Once you've done it a few times, in that aspect, it gets easier. You still feel it the same intensity, but you know, at that point, what's on the other side. Is gonna be better. So even though you're feeling that fear or the doubt or whatever's trying to pass, you know, memories, whatever's being brought up from this change into a more authentic wild self, it, you know, it's worth it. The mystery, you might not know exactly what it's gonna look like, but you know, you can, you You can start to feel it energetically, right? And you can—

Oh, I feel like that what you're like, what's coming through me now is that you just have that inner knowing. Because when you take the leaps and when you do something that you're scared of, right? Finding like being authentic or like speaking up, right? Speaking for your values, for what you stand for. It's scary, but you know inside that you have to do it. It's like that inner knowing from the heart, from the soul that this is the way. This is the way forward and this is the wild woman's way. Like you just need to stand up for what, for what you are, for who you are, for, for your values, for everything.

Oh yeah. Yeah. How do you feel now? I mean, I know we said it's always a journey, but like, obviously right now we're at the furthest we've been in our journeys, right? At least I'm assuming. I know for me. How does it feel now to be at this level or, you know, at this Not at the beginning, right?

But, um, that's a really good question. So I feel proud of myself where, how far I've come, but I also feel like I can't believe how many scary things I've done to get this far because I don't understand how I had so much courage to do those things. Yeah, why? Like, parts of me are very like, whoa, I've done so many hard decisions, right? But then like, another part of my initiation right now, which I've been going through, is asking like, oh, I've done a lot of rituals and, um, I believe in like spirit guides talking to me, right? So like whoever's listening, and if you're not into it, just, you know, bear with me. Um, and they've been telling me that my next kind of step forwards and initiation is softness, right? Softness and like being wild, but still being soft. And I feel like even though what I just said to you, that I've gone through so much and I'm proud of it, the next step for me is to soften. And the life has been throwing me every possible lesson, curveball, rollercoaster ride, confetti flavored things. Oh, you said you felt that you need to be soft. Let's try test it out. So that's saying, I feel like finding, like, I don't know, my answer is long-winded, but I'm proud, but at the same time, I'm still going through really the gist and the depths of it, and it's really hard. So that's kind of, I would say that, like, as we talked about, it's a journey. So Um, almost like when you're climbing like a mountain or a hill, right? So like you will go through some, like, you know how you're climbing a mountain, you will have some like nice scenic views like along the way, but you're not at the top yet kind of thing. So that's been kind of my, my answer to you. And what about you? Because I really, I'm really curious.

Oh, well, hmm. The softening. Yeah, I'm feeling that too. Um, I gotta— let me think for a second because this is—

but you kept going ups and downs.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, it's totally like that.

Now it's been like down and down and down and down, and I'm like, ah, like, we're done now, right? But we're going through it. We're going through it.

Yeah, we are going through it. No, I'm, I'm in what I call like a tower moment myself, or a rock bottom, you could say.

Yeah.

Where there's just, everything's having to be rebuilt, right? So it's having, right now it's like having a lot of compassion for myself. Um, staying open to all avenues of opportunity and not, you know, but also being like, Like, I know I want a job and it's like, but I also, I don't want that, you know, like what do I actually want? I want freedom of my time. I want, you know, I wanna work. If I work for somebody else, I want the business to maybe be a nonprofit or somebody who's doing other, you know, so I, I'm focusing on that, but mainly I'm daily meeting myself with just compassion because it's like Um, I'm 41 and it's like, oh man, I can judge myself, right? Like, oh my God, do I still not have my shit figured out? Like, come on, Joy, goddamn. I'm like, no, no, we're not gonna talk to ourselves that way. That's not very nice. We've been through some fucking shit. Let's just like, you know, and like, Hugging yourself. This is okay. It's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Giving the hugs and stuff, right? It's like, oh yeah, Monica's right. We are totally our own worst critics. Um, then releasing the shame or maybe around, cuz it's like, did I fail? And it's like, mm, let's reframe that. You know, this wasn't, I failed at something. It's, I expanded beyond. Right. And, um, now I have this blank slate. Ooh, what do I want to do with this blank slate? Right. That's one thing I love about rock bottoms or tower moments is they're that blank slate and you can really, you can go.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like the, the, the calm day or the calm night after the big storm. It's like, oh, okay. Okay. Like what, what else we can learn from that? Or like, okay. Like it's okay.

Yeah. Like if the storm destroyed your farm or your house or whatever, like, do you wanna rebuild it the same way it was? Do you want it to look different? Were you wanting to expand anyway? And now this is just a bigger opportunity to do it, right? Like it's re— it's, you can reframe it. Mm-hmm. That's another thing I'm learning to do. It's just Oh, going through old lenses or ways of like viewing things or beliefs and realizing that they're cloudy and they're full of like false beliefs. And it's like, oh fuck, like romance. And it was like, I think I need to like chuck that. Like just make a new one because I think I had a lot of shit wrong on a lot of levels and I'd rather just start from scratch in this new space and start learning from this perspective, right? I don't know if that makes sense, but—

Exactly, exactly. I feel like it's the same with masks. Like, hmm, we're told— again, it's coming back. Everything comes back to the authenticity. It's like, you know, you've been told that you're this, this, or the other when you're growing up, right? So you had the masks and you were living with those masks. And then there comes a point where you like rip them off like a Band-Aid. And you're trying to figure out who you are. And it's the same with the lenses. Like, yeah, like for me, I said, like, I had to reevaluate what was, what the word success meant for me. Because I was always fed this, this paradigm, or I don't know what's the word I'm looking for, that success is, you know, earning six figures, being the boss, boss baby, boss babe, and, you know, having the white picket fence and this and the other. And. I realized that none of those things are success for me. Success for me is you're just living authentically. You're living like a true wild woman, right? Leading from the heart. You have close circle of friends. You have, you know, things that you care about and love for, and it's not materialistic. And to me, that was like a whole wake-up call of like, oh, like success, for example, can mean, again, many different things. And it's like, If you live, if you're choosing to live authentically, so are you going to start chasing the dream of becoming a CEO of the company? But if in reality, if you just want to be, have like, I don't know, a bookshop or like a flower shop and you, you know, you just want to do that, right? Like just follow what you want. That's living authentically.

Well, and then, yeah, it's giving your own definition to it.

Yeah.

Like personalizing it for you. And then, you know, then doing your evaluation, you're like, oh no, I'm fucking successful. Like I already am successful because I meet my own definition. Right. And then you, to me, you can feel when you're, when you slip outta that, if you do, right, you can, and then adjust, right? That's part of it.

Yes.

Yes. Because that to me, that's moving into more embodiment. With all the things you're learning, right? You can feel where you're shifting and you're like, oh, I'm not doing that no more. Just take it back. And then once you notice it, to me, that's ingraining it in you and you don't fall for it like you did before. You know what I mean?

Yes. Yeah. And I also, when you were talking, I just remembered another thing that I want to point out as well. When we're talking about authenticity, right? We're talking about like, it's a journey and obviously you will change friends and your like group friends and like circle of friends, right? So when you will start stepping into your authentic self, your authentic version of yourself, don't, I mean, I want to say don't feel scared, but be okay with the fact that your friends will change or your friends and family will start questioning you and they will start asking for that fake, I would say fake authentic you, right? That they knew all the time. So just embrace the fact that it can be lonely sometimes, or that you need to make an executive decision to start looking for different environments for that new authentic self to open up. So like joining women's circles, or, you know, going to like yoga studios, or, you know, like whatever, like, you know, or finding like, or going to a book club, or whatever, whatever you like, so that your new authentic self can actually start like flourishing.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Monica made a good point. Have boundaries too. Yeah. I learned that. That was a crash course lesson this year for me on all the areas I did not have boundaries. And it was like mirror after mirror, lesson after lesson. I'm like, oh no, I need a fucking boundary there.

Okay.

And then I'd be like, okay, we got that boundary. And then another person would come into my life and be like, oh no, I, Oh, I need a boundary over here too. I didn't realize I needed all these boundaries, but it felt like brick by brick.

Yeah.

Cause there was a lot. I didn't really have many boundaries. Um, that, mm, I don't know where I'm going with this, but we'll see. That's like creating your own container for your, maybe that's your masculine creating that.

Yeah. Yeah.

The frame. Container for your, your fucking women, beautiful feminine flow energy. Right.

Yeah, the, the, the stuff that you're saying about the masculine energy, I agree because the, the, I've heard people say this many times is that when you're playing with masculine and feminine energies, let's imagine that the masculine energy is the riverbanks and the feminine energy is water that flows through. So like we do need those boundaries, right? Structure boundary, like boundaries to people, to situations. And then the feminine is like ever flowing. So like, you know, if you're in your luthial phase, You're not gonna want to go to a party. So have the boundary saying, no, actually I'm choosing to stay in with popcorn and hot water bottle. And that's your boundary.

I love that. Yeah, it doesn't have to be this big overt, right? It literally can be that small. Like, no, I'm not going out this weekend. This is a comfy stay at home cozy weekend, right? And I'm honoring that about myself and that those, even those small little things, um, like I'm, I'm trying to get back to a point you made where the people in our lives might not align with that, right? Like, no, we always go out every weekend. Like, what are you talking about? You're just staying in now, right? Like, just power through it. You know, I'll give you a Midol or whatever. And you're like, no, I don't want to do that this time. I'm trying something new. I'm going to do this. You can either come sit with me and we'll watch this movie, or you can, you can go out without, right? And like you said, yeah, being, it's, and grieving it if they do end up leaving, right? Because they're used to the you that didn't have that boundary, right?

Exactly.

And the authen— as you become more authentic and you set it, if they can't get from you what they were trying to get, and that's where they're at at that time, then it's, you gotta let it go and everything. Ooh, Monica's coming in here with the flame.

Yeah, I'm learning to say no without an explanation. It's not easy. Yes, I feel you.

Oh yeah, that's a hard one. But damn, does it feel good when you do it? Can we just acknowledge that?

I would say it feels really awkward and funny. I'm embracing the messy middle.

Well, I'm embracing the fucking fire of it because I'll be like, oh, I fucking nailed it. I fucking nailed it. And I will still have that feeling in me of like, I should just make it softer. Like, I just need to like— and I'm like, no, you're not adding anything. We have told them what we needed to say. We are done. We are deleting this. We are, you know, like, and then I'm like, uh, feels strange.

Yes. It's like, for me, it feels strange. Like one of the, the, like the boundaries and the, the, the lesson I'm going through now, one of them is like honoring my health and honoring my like feelings. And I had to cancel a couple of meetings because just life, it was just like super stressful. Right. I like. I couldn't, if I would have gone to those meetings, I couldn't have been my 100% self and I had to be. So I had to send the messages saying, look, I'm so sorry. I have to cancel a meeting. Like I, I, I can't do it. Right. And oh my God, I felt so awkward. So weird. So funny. And I was like, I had a, I had a pep talk to myself. I was like, you're a wild woman. Just come on, woman. Just like, it's fine. And then, and then I was like, okay, like, it's fine. Like, it's fine. So I literally wrote like, it was like, I'm saying as well, don't make the message fluffy or anything. Don't act, don't overexplain yourself. But I mean, be a nice human being. Like, don't say, oh, oh, fuck off. You know, I don't want to deal with you or anything. No, no, no. It's like, hi, sorry, I have to schedule the meeting. This and this happened. And 99% of the time, people will understand you. And they will get it because they will want the same feedback back. If something goes wrong in their lives and they will have to cancel on you, they will be like, oh, that's fine. Like, I was supportive to her, she's gonna now be supportive to me. But the point of the story is like, I'm struggling with what Monica was saying as well. It's like, I have this conditioning of like, you always have to be available, you always have to provide and always be and push and push. And I'm trying to honor the softness that like, my life is falling apart currently. I, I, I physically cannot be in the meeting and concentrate and, you know, make important decisions in my business when I'm like full emotional. So I have to embrace that. So I'm with you, Monica.

Well, it's presence with yourself, with your craft, right? That's what I've been writing about a lot, that self-love and presence and just honoring that, taking its slower.

Yes.

Right. Um, oh, I just had a question. I don't know if I remember it, but I'm gonna try to dig it outta my brain. Um, it was on something you said. Oh, do you think as women, obviously we're women, we're talking about women and shit. Um, there's this kind of wide cultural thing of us Not having to be extra nice, exclamation points on our, our texts and stuff. Right. And just like extra cheery and like the fake smile and just that whole facade. Um, where like Monica was saying, where we just, you want to soften it, right? Even if you're already being civil and nice, there's this need to like just really make sure nobody ever could ever, ever, ever be offended by any remote minute thing you ever said, ever.

I, I like, it's the good girl conditioning. It's the good girl conditioning. It's the, we've been conditioned that we have to be certain things that again, it's like your fake authentic, fake authentic self, right? It's the view being fake. You're not like, you were told to be nice, smiley, and taking care of everyone and you then, when you grow up, you learn, you're learning and you're understanding that actually that's not really me. Like, I don't really want to do a bake sale every Friday and feed every, like, no. So it's again, like, I, yeah. And like, again, being the wild woman, if we're talking from the wild woman's perspective, just follow your gut, follow your instinct. Of what is authentic to you. And yes, you know, you could have had like 10, 20, 30 years of conditioning of doing the bake sale, even though you hate cooking. But maybe this year is the time to embrace the wild woman who actually would rather go out to the park and nature and be in nature rather than spend 5 hours in the, in the, in the kitchen doing the bake sale if she doesn't want to do it. Like, you know, the simplest example is like, how can you honor that new version of yourself?

Well, yeah. And then when you do do it, it just feels, you feel the love and you're like, why was I withholding this?

Yeah.

For that?

Like, why?

Like, really? I don't have to bake. I can be the woman that brings the drinks, right? Like, or, you know, yeah, I can buy some freaking soda pops and bring it to the school function. Like, I don't. Yeah. If I'm not into spending all the time baking and it was, it's typically pretty easy. It re— like to just be like, actually this year I wanna bring the drinks.

Yeah.

How many do we need? And then they're like, oh, okay, well we need blah, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, that was it. That was it. I changed my whole fucking life in this, this one little conversation. And you're just like, oh, okay. Uh, Yeah, right. It's, it blows your mind, but it also expands your heart for your, for love for yourself. And then it kind of gets addicting in a good way. I mean this in a good way, right? Where you're like, oh no, I don't, I don't wanna act like that again. I don't remember how that, like, I want that dopamine hit that I gave myself from, from being authentic like that.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You're like, you're feeling liberated and happy.

Yeah. I'm reading Monica's comment right now.

Thank you for commenting, Monica. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Yes. Thank you. Let's see. She said, one thing is manners and courtesy. Another is it is not our responsibility to make people think of us as agreeable. Ooh, that's some spicy deliciousness. Not sure if I'm expressing this correctly, but yeah, we get it. We get it. I get it.

Isn't it? It's like, this is why I'm saying, like, if you can't, like, again, if you're playing with the boundaries of canceling the meetings when you're not well, like, no one is telling you that you need to tell, like, send a very nasty message. No, just explain what it is, 2 sentences. Like, no one is, we're not encouraging being aggressive or rude or unkind. Like, that, that's not the wild woman's way. We need to honor ourselves first and then serve others.

I think it's also giving yourself permission to, to take up space.

Yes. That's a big one. That's a good one.

I mean, for yourself, right? Um, as in like not going to the meeting or whatever, right? Like, uh, just creating that container for yourself to have that space to do whatever it is. You need to do. It, it can be, sometimes it's just within myself. I'll wake up and be like, I wanna do this, this, and this today. And then something will hit me and I'll be crying and I'll be like, oh no, I need to process this emotion and this. I don't think I'm gonna get to this, this, and this today. I'm canceling those plans on myself. And it's all within me, right? Like it doesn't even have to do with other people. It's just like, no, I'm, I'm switching gears. I'm not. There's no reason I have to follow my first plan, right? I'm, that's the flow part, right? And give, almost giving yourself permission at first to do that because it does feel weird because we're conditioned to like, no, I gotta produce, I gotta get, well, I'm a Virgo, so maybe that's just me, but it's like, no, I gotta get this shit done. Like, I wanna check it off. But, um, That's, that's being in the authentic flow, as I would say, and just being in honoring. Oh, it's, it all is connected in such beautiful, delicious ways.

Yeah. It's like, I love that. Yeah. It's just that flow, the flow of it. And like, um, again, I'm going to bring it to the wild because, um, my brand, right? The Wild Medeina. Medeina is a Lithuanian goddess of the forest. And in many different literatures, like some literature is saying that she, like the goddess is just, you know, a woman and roaming with different wild animals. Some literature is saying that she is shaping from morphing from one animal to another. So like one night she could be a wolf, the next she could be a rabbit, the next she can be a deer. And what it's saying that then she has all the wisdom because she's morphing, ever flowing, ever changing, collecting different wisdom and just going with the flow. So it's like maybe we can, you know, embody, embody and honor that wildness in us that one day we can be like, a very nurturing, soft mama bear, and we can be like cozy, very, you know, nurturing, loving, you know, having like a movie night with your kid and like baking cookies. But the next day we can wake up and be like full on feral wolf, like really angry wolf. And we're like, no, we're gonna hit boundaries. We're gonna hit the to-do list. We're gonna claim the space. We're gonna just like show off who is crossing the boundary, right, of the tribe. And then the next evening you can be like, I don't know, like a really soft and, um, seductive, like a fox, you know, like full of intuition and like that sass and that like inner wisdom. And again, that's like your authenticity. Like you don't have to be just one animal, just one era of you.

Well, I think as women we feel our emotions in our body. Right? We're very somatic beings. And so just when we are in that flow, like, oh, I love that she changed into different animals. Like, oh, it's like tingly good, right? Because that's, that's just how it is, man. We're not even ADHD or something, right? It's just, um, well, some of us might be. I'm not, but I'm just saying like, That's just how women are in our auth— in when we're in that wild woman authentic thing, we, we really can change on a dime. To people who basically men who don't have that, you know, tapped in emotions, it can certainly look like, or women who aren't at that depth yet, right? Or haven't uncovered that part of their onion yet. It can look chaotic, but it's not. Chaotic as in like confusion, right? Um, it could be chaotic. I don't know where I'm going with this now, but like, I get it.

I get it.

As in like, um, rebirth and stuff like that, like that kind of alchemy chaotic, right?

Yeah. We love the chaos as we talked in the beginning of the, of the live, which I mean, oh my God, we've been talking for an hour. Yeah.

Yeah. We've done a good job.

Yeah, it's like, as we were talking, it's the messy, it's the messiness of becoming the authentic self. And the point of the story is that we need to embrace that.

Yeah. Well, is there anything we want to add or anything before we wind it down?

I would just say everyone who's listening, just give yourself some grace. Beautiful. Love and just literally hug yourself while listening or watching this because you are going through a lot, whatever you're going through. And looking back, like when I talk with many women that, you know, I coach and I do workshops and everything, when you ask them like, what, what was the thing that you wanted to hear when you were going through any hard time? Not, not everyone. Sorry. Everyone would say that they wish they were more gentle with themselves. Not one of them said, oh, you know, oh, I wished I, I wish I pushed harder or blah, blah, blah. No, all of them were asking for the grace. Oh, I wish I was softer to myself. Oh, I wish I had more grace. So my, my summary, I think, is on the journey to being authentic, just be gentle with yourself. That's all you can do.

I love it. I love it because no, it's so true, right? So true. We've talked about that. Being our own worst critic and just, we're not lazy. That's not the problem. Um, because it, we're just not linear. That's, we're just not linear.

We're like this and we love that.

No, and it's, uh, it's so delicious to have it and to live that way, even when Life is, you know, messy. It's pretty much always probably going to be messy to some degree.

Yeah.

Oh, this was beautiful. It's so much fun. Thank you so much. This was lovely.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for everyone who's listening live and to everyone who's listening as a replay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you, Joy, for having me.

No problem.