In this candid, diarized conversation, Joy Brown and Alexandra explore why many women now feel a heightened fear around men, tracing it to personal and collective trauma, grief, and disappointment stemming from centuries of male violence and neglect. Alexandra shares a fresh, visceral fear that surfaces around any man, while Joy recounts PTSD triggers linked to an abusive ex‑husband and a workplace incident that underscored everyday violations. They discuss how safe, attentive male presence can act as a healing catalyst, yet most men retreat when faced with deep intimacy because their hearts are blocked. The dialogue moves into the importance of clear boundaries, the concept of a "sacred container" or "sacred union," and the role of inner masculine protectors (the "king" or "dragon‑slayer") in both genders. They examine modern dating dynamics, emphasizing authenticity, mutual initiation, and the need for both partners to bring a filled cup of self‑love rather than seeking validation externally. The conversation also touches on cultural shifts: women’s increasing education and economic independence, the "loneliness epidemic" among men, and the risk of women adopting overly masculine roles that suppress their divine feminine. They highlight the necessity of a healthy embodied masculine for women to fully embody their femininity, and argue that women’s rising standards can compel men to awaken and engage in healthier relational patterns. References to the "Magdalene Manuscript" introduce a spiritual blueprint for sacred union, and the speakers stress the universal soul desire for deep connection, urging listeners to honor their own healing, set firm boundaries, and seek partners who are willing to co‑create rather than merely consume. Throughout, they weave metaphors of heart‑flowers, DNA‑like weaving, and mythic stories to illustrate the process of integrating feminine and masculine energies, ultimately urging a broader discourse on these topics.
Chapters
So our title was Why Men Fear the Feeling Woman, but we're gonna just kind of explore all over.
Yeah.
Um, what we actually mean by that feminine, masculine communion, relationships, the whole beautiful mix of it all, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I don't even, I feel like there's so many places we can go just based on our conversation prior.
Yeah.
I guess, you know what, we'll start with like, I, I'll start with what's been heavy on my heart the last, um, and it, it's, it's still fresh. It's still fresh where if I tap into it, like I actually get emotional and I can already feel it. I'm not trying to cry. I have tissues, but of course you're gonna get I don't have any here, but I'm gonna try my best to contain. But it, it is a fresh wound. Um, I have found the last couple of days, weeks, days and weeks, like, there is a fear that comes up when I'm around men now.
A fear for you, in you, or in them?
Fear of my safety.
Oh, in inside of you.
And it's, it's been like, it was, it's been weird. And I actually wanted to ask you, um, if, if you've been feeling the same sort of thing, because I have come to a conclusion of what this is. I, I introspect, I always dive deep. Um, but it's definitely a very new feeling. Um, and it, like, it almost comes up with like every man that I almost interact with. And it's, oh my God, it's, it's not a good feeling because I'm always like, oh my God, do I need to keep myself safe? You know, like be mindful about my surroundings and my safety. Right. And I've been like. Really looking into that and being like, okay, why is this coming up? This has never been this heightened, right? Because if I'm honest, if I look back, like, we're always— like, women are always so hyper-aware of their surroundings. We just have to be, right? But it was more, I would say, like, subconscious. Um, it's like, I, I was living downtown Toronto and I had no issues walking around at like 2 in the morning as an 18-year-old, you know, like I had no issues. I was like, I'm safe. Right. But there was like a subconscious thing, right? Like if I did see something, I'd be like, I, I was smart about it, you know, like I'd cross the street or whatever. I, and like, I would feel a little bit of that fear, but ultimately I was like, I feel like I was just very much in my, like, masculine, where I didn't really allow myself to feel that fear. And now that I'm diving deep, deep, deep in my feminine, this fear has been coming up. And so, and it's, it's, it's very sensitive and like, it's, it's scary. Like I've never felt this much fear in my life of being around men. and then I was like, what the heck? Like, what's going on? And so what intuitively was coming to me is because, like, I know I'm sensitive, I'm reclaiming that sensitivity, right? Women are sensitive, right? Um, and I, I've been kind of, you know, pondering like what, what's been happening. And I think. And what's been coming to me intuitively is like, there is actually a lot of, um, grief, a lot of, um, sadness, disappointment, and rage and anger towards men who have not protected us, who have mistreated us, who have abused us. And I was feeling— I'm like, oh, like, this is not just mine. Like, it's literally— it's almost like I— oh my gosh, I'm just realizing it's like kind of like, you know, the dark night of the soul, and it's like all your wounding comes up. This is like, I guess, just another wound that's now coming up within me that I never allowed myself to really— yes, to really feel before. Because guess what? I had to mask it up and go. I had to go forward. I had to keep going forward, and I never allowed myself to process what I— whatever I went through in the past, right? And, um, but like, I was feeling that it's not just mine. I was actually feeling like that's the feminine consciousness.
Yeah.
And I was feeling like basically like the ancestral line and just like the— for all the women that have been done wrong, I'm like, oh my God, that's actually there. Like that energy, that wounding is there. And I was like feeling my stuff, but also there's like other women, right? I just, it was, it was like such a huge wave and like literally I'm still processing it. I'm just like, oh my gosh, there's so much hurt. And it's funny because I have seen. Things online of like the right men being called into safe spaces where they hold that space for a woman who has really been abused. And she, you could see she like breaks down in his arms cuz he's just like holding that safe space for her of like, I'm not like, yeah, you've been wronged, you've been hurt by other men, but I'm gonna hold you here. And it like re— completely rewires her system. Right.
Yeah. Um, but yeah, I'm curious if, if, I don't know if Joy, you've been feeling like, well, yeah, when you were speaking, I was like, ah, she's speaking of the collective.
Uh-huh.
I knew exactly what you were talking about. I mean, yes, it's, it's more our own, our own mixed in. For me, it's like a current. Yeah. And I can't, when I knew I was meant to start being in more relation with men. This is back in the spring. I got that intuitive understanding that like men are going to start coming to you. And I think we talked about that on our last live and I was just like, what? But I realized I was in that stream that you were talking about and it was like you, in order to see them, You have to move out of this synergy. Um, it's so interesting. Um, over the weekend I did, I spent 7 hours straight just speaking aloud my own life story and like really just sitting with every trauma, good or bad. And a lot of them had to do with masculine and because I've had abusive exes and stuff and childhood stuff and right. Um, some of them even weren't that big, but they, you know, it was still like a rejection or something.
And you can even feel it energetically, right?
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, just processing and crying. And then I think it was like the next day. I had this like echo. It felt like an echo of that just pure unsafe feeling. And I was in, in my room like I am now, alone. So obviously I knew I was safe, but it was, it was like a PTSD echo, which I, I have been diagnosed with, but I haven't had those in a long time. And I was just like, whoa, like I know I'm safe technically. Right. But right now my energy body is freaking out.
Yeah.
And I had to sit with it and it was like, ah, this is a memory of when my ex-husband would beat me and how unsafe I would felt. And so I just sat with that version of me. Right. And I processed it and it, and my, like my nervous system was reacting. So I just put my hands on my heart and just did some deep, and I was like, I am in my sacral. And I was like, I am safe. I am safe. And it. It literally did calm me down, but like, um, yeah, that's a thing, right? That's totally a thing. Especially if it's like, that is such a visceral, like, obviously unsafe environment, right? Um, also while you were talking, I had this memory pop up, so I guess I'll share it. I used to work at a cafe in a bookstore. And, um, it was pretty popular because it was right next to the movie theater, so people would come afterwards. And it was a busy night, like a Friday or Saturday night, and I was working in the cafe, so I was just constantly doing, you know, taking money and making drinks. And this one man came up to buy a drink, and he's like, I'm an off-duty police officer, but I need you to know that there's a man sitting over there who has been staring at you for hours. And like, I just need you to make sure that you don't walk, you know, when you go to your car, when you leave, have somebody walk you. Oh, like I was so busy working. I'm not thinking about who's looking at me or, you know what I mean?
But it's a gross feeling.
It is.
Right.
Um, and then I don't know if in general men realize that that is what women deal with on the daily. Oh my God. I mean, even at Now I'm thinking about that job. It might have been that same lurker guy. Just handing him his change back, the way he would touch my hand and stuff. And it was just, just small things like that where you're like, that's a violation. Uh-huh.
Right?
I am handing you your change. This is— there's nothing else going on.
The hell are you thinking?
Like, this is not— I'm not trying to hold your hand. I am trying to give you some change. But, um, yeah, that's our reality. That's our lived reality. That's why we are so in tune. It helps when we are so in tune with our bodies, because that is how we know if we're safe or not. And like I said in the beginning, I have had these men come and some come and go. Some were very catalytic, some, and some stayed. And I cannot even tell you how freaking healing that was. Oh, really? To just be in their energy and be like, oh, oh, oh, this does that, this— oh, okay, well, this is gorgeous. It's just gorgeous. I just want to take a—
thank God for those men. Like, how—
but it I mean, I would cry. I mean, it was like, oh, this is what I should have been looking for all along. I just didn't even know it existed, right? Because I was molested as a very young child. So it was like attention, male attention, especially to me as a child, that's not safe, right? That's what that taught me. And I was like 5 years old. So then it was like, I'm going to stay small. I'm going to stay quiet. Quiet, um, you know, I'm going to use this to create safety for myself. You can't. I mean, that was—
you know what, Joy, just because like you, you brought up something really good. Yes, that teaches us not safety, but guess what pop culture teaches us? To accept those kind of things.
Yeah.
It's in music videos. It's in songs. It's like, it's like allow yourself to be treated like this by a man. And then so a young girl grows up, at first she doesn't have a good experience and a good example at home, so she looks on into the like outside world. She looks at celebrities, she looks at, you know, what they're doing. What they're doing is not how women should be treated, but yet it like, that's what they're trying to program young girls to be degraded and that it's normal.
That's how it creates that discord inside of you. Right. Cause it doesn't feel good. And, but yet you're told this is what you should want. And so it's like, but I don't want it. I mean, I do, but not like that, but all I'm experiencing is that. So where I guess I'm wrong. That's where you go with it. Or maybe not everybody, but I guess for a lot of us, right? And then you have to slowly rewire and relearn that. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and realize like, wait a minute. No, no, no, no. Like there are boundaries and, you know, a type of like respect that is needed towards us to make us feel safe. Right. And, um, I know that that's like, I, it's crazy how this is literally what the world is currently going through. Like it's everywhere. There's so many people talking about the dynamic and like how to help women feel safe and all. Like it's crazy. Like this is literally what we're going through at this time. Like I'm sure you're also seeing it, right? I mean, we're both living.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm in a place now where over the past, over this past year, just, it was like a masterclass in learning boundaries and respecting my own energy and what I offer. And, uh, cause I became very magnetic and they just showed up. Right. And I mean, it was cool, but it was also intimidating. And it was like, I'm, what is going on? But, um, it's, it was what I needed to kind of have those experiences to help me like, ah, I'm, I'm giving this away too much. I need to step back and recenter. And it's, it's after last Sunday's life review thing, it really feels like it came into a sense of completion inside of me. Like solidified a little more. Sounds really cool. But, um, today it was brought up, um, I'm kind of switching gears here, more about communion. Like when you find man, masculine I should say, a more masculine leaning energy, right? Um, I, I was, I've been diving into I'm a huge sci-fi nerd. There's like space all in my heart right there. But like, I've been diving into just random physics that I love to explore, but I just can't seem to fully grasp it. It's like I can't pull it into my body where I know things 100%. It's like, we're living in the 60, 70%, and I know these concepts are fun and cool, but I just can't. Seem to figure out how to pull 'em into me. And it reminded me of science class growing up because that's how that class felt for me. Or learning a foreign language where you're like, kind of get it, but it doesn't fully land. Mm-hmm. And I just started crying cuz I was like, man, that's how it feels talking to men a lot. They are telling me all these cool things and I'm like, wow, that's really cool. I can't seem to let it. Land fully. And it was, I was kind of like you're saying with your friend, I was like tapping into that ache of it. Like, ah, just, I wish I'm willing to do whatever is needed to help this land. But I have, like I told you, I have these beautiful male friendships now where they stay. And I was talking to one of them and he's like, Yeah, I'm not like, we will stay and build this bridge because you're teaching me how to feel it in my body and I'm teaching you how to have it conceptually. And we're not actually missing each other. We're, we're just building it together, right?
Bridging it.
Bridging it. Yeah. And it's like, oh, I, I know. But I think that before I even had those friendships, there was such that ache to, to do that with somebody even, right?
Like, uh, just so I, I wanna make sure I understand, um, basically you actually feeling safe in, yeah, this and, and the, in return he understands like how to do that. Is that what you're talking about?
Well, I'm not saying both of us understand each other perfectly.
Right.
But there's not any, well, not, you know how I hope you haven't experienced it, but odds are you have where there's dismissal of what you're seeing.
Yeah.
Right. Um, from either party, right. Where it's like, I don't understand. So just fuck off basically. Right. Yeah. Oh yeah.
Or it's like. Or my thing is like, I would say like, it's like I'm talking to the wall.
Yeah. Or they're just blank. It's just blank. And you're like, are, are you listening?
Are like, are you there?
Do you have thoughts? Are you alive? Like, can you express something? Do you need more time? Like, can I at least know this? Right. And it is just like, yeah. Yeah. You just get a yeah or a uh-huh, and you're like, I don't know what that means. I don't know. I don't unders— like, why can't we discuss this? And I, I've told— I've been going down— I revisit this a lot. Alison Armstrong, she does a beautiful job helping me and other people learn the masculine mind and the feminine mind. Um, so then, I mean, I understand now, like, maybe they need more time, but they never actually did come back to me and have that discussion. It was like an avoidance of that, right? Especially if it was conflict involved.
Um, hey, sorry, Joy. It's just, this is, this, I, I know this was our original topic and now you've just opened.
We've gotten there.
We've gotten there. Um, This is what I'm talking about. This is what I'm freaking talking about. Um, so I'll start by saying like, obviously right now I'm dealing with the fear, the, the, my fear, the collective fear, the disappointment. Honestly, it's also just disappointment and sadness, right? That's what I'm going through right now. It's heavy. It's heavy. So let me just say like for all you men watching, like I really want you to know offering your woman safety, presence, and protection, like, you'll, you'll have her open up, you know. Um, and then you're just, you're doing an honor truly. Yeah, truly, to her and the collective, the, the feminine collective, right? But, um, so Few months, actually it's almost a year ago. I kind of like, you know, I, I went out on a few dates and I kind of did that more for me to see like who I was as a person, right? Like what do I still tolerate and what I don't. And I surprised myself. I'm like, damn, good job, good job, good job. You don't, you don't fall for this anymore. Good job. Um, And like a lot of them were just like one, one, one, one date.
One date.
'Cause I was just like, no, I don't, I don't accept this. I have standards now, which if the rarest breed of man can, you know, touch, great. I'm happy. That's what I'm calling in. I'm not, you know, like I'm also, I consider myself a rare woman, you know, like, but. There, I mentioned in the last one that we did, I kind of did, um, meet somebody a few months ago, which I was like, I thought like he was more aligned to me. Like truly there were so many things I was like, but my intuition was like, no, no, no, he, he, he can't meet you at your depth. And I was like, intuition, don't screw this up for me.
Your girl wants a kiss.
I was just like, don't screw this up for me. Like, don't, don't do this. But of course my intuition, like, it knows obviously. But my point is like, I've, I've kind of touched on all these different men who are in different, like, um, points of their healing journey, right? Some are completely unaware still, some are kind of just starting. And the one that I was talking about, he was kind of like— I would say he was more aware, but he still wasn't there. And so I was like kind of reflecting on all of that, I guess, 2 or 3 weeks ago, and I was like, oh my God, it literally doesn't matter where a man is in his healing journey, they're all petrified of real intimacy, real love, every single one of them. And that's because they're blocked in the heart. Because when it came down to it, like, I mean, I, I felt those first couple guys that they were blocked in the heart. The guy that I was kind of like hoping I was like, is he, is he like, yes, he was. He absolutely was. Right. And I was like, oh my gosh. So this is actually what makes men avoid it is because they see a magnetic woman, a woman who is conscious. She's like, you know, you know, Joy, like when you're tapping into your feminine, like we talk about it, it's, it's, it's a magnetism, right? And everybody wants your attention. Everybody. And it's not just men. Women are also like, oh, like, you know.
Oh yeah. You can sense it in other women.
Yeah.
It's not just, uh, yeah, I get you.
Yeah. Um, and so men are drawn to that. They're like, what does this woman have? Like what? There's something about her and it's because she's mirroring This is just like what I came to, like my own conclusions, is like it's because she's mirroring the, all the things that he desires of tapping into deeply, tapping into his heart and like that intimacy and just surrendering really to that. Yeah, to that experience. Like there is, because again, I get a lot of men are more like controlling, like, you know, they're focused, they gotta do this, this. It's very, you know, structured, right? Which I said, that's a beautiful thing, honestly, to a feminine woman. That, that is an awesome thing to come and just balance our flow out. But obviously on the opposite side of that, they crave that, that mystery, that flow, that intimacy, right? That deep, profound, like actual, actually deep, profound love. But as— and what I was finding is as soon as they get a little taste of it, so they'll see like this woman, right? She's in her feminine, she's magnetic, she's glowing, whatever. They want to approach her to like— it's gonna sound dirty, but it's not meant to be dirty— like to drink from her well, basically, right? Like they want a taste of it, right? And a lot of them are in this space of like, they want to take but don't, don't give, right? So they'll come in, they'll taste a little bit of, you know, her, her energy, her well, her waters. And then as soon— because what a conscious feminine woman will do, she will invite them into deeper layers of themselves, which is, for them, it's petrifying. It's scary, especially to a man who has not dealt with his own shadow work, who has not confronted the stuff that is sitting in his heart that blocks him from feeling that love, feeling that intimacy, and surrendering, right? It's petrifying to him. So a lot of men will like, they'll take a taste and then they're like, no, no, no, no, this is too much.
They take a step back.
They run away, right? They avoid. And then, and then obviously like they can keep doing that, but then ultimately if they're not ready, they'll just find an easy woman, right? A woman who also doesn't, like, she's blocked in the heart. She doesn't wanna dive deep. And it's then it's like, it's like that typical mundane relationship when, until one of those people eventually are like, what are we doing? This isn't it. Yeah. Right? Um, so that, that's what I've been finding is that like men, truly a lot of men, no matter where they are in their journey, they're scared of that deep intimacy and love because they're scared of what it will reveal inside of them. But the thing is, a true initiated man, like, cuz I get that no matter where they are in their journey, they're gonna feel that fear. But a true initiated man will fear, feel the fear and dive into it.
Yeah.
He'll be like, okay, this is just an invitation for me to move into this, dive deeper, confront my stuff.
Lean in. Right.
Lean in, lean in. Don't back away. Lean in, especially cuz you guys crave it, but then you wanna run the other, like you're screwing yourselves over, you know?
Well, I'm realizing I've came to that same conclusion and now literally today. So this is so timely. I'm, I'm seeing how it evolves. And I think for us to identify more feminine, um, leading, you know, expressing anyway, um, it really asks for patience. So much patience because we swim in that love, right? Yeah, definitely. It's not scary to us. It's not scary to us at all. So it's more like, why are you so freaking scared? Um, but I understand they're gonna reveal things that will, you know, bring out things in the same in me, right? Yeah, like they might be like, well, why aren't you so— you don't seem so structured. Why don't you name things and structure yourself? And it's like, oh, okay, that's rubbing me, but I'll sit with it, right? Because I'm like, one, I'm an integrated woman, so that's what I do, right? I'm not going to run away, but, um, I guess I see it more as like, you can do a spiral or like a DNA weaving and it's just like, let's give each other time, like I said, to build these bridges because I might just want to go full-on Superman, right? Like rip it open, be like, here you go, look at all this love, just beam it at you, man. That literally knocks them over. It just knocks them over. I've totally done that. I've totally done that. I'm very messy about it all because that's how I learned. But, oh, now I'm like, oh, okay. I probably shouldn't just superman them, you know? But, um, I just be in it, right? And then, like, the ones, to me, the ones who stay, that's how I word it. That's what it looks like to me. So many will come and like you said, they'll get a taste. And then they'll back away and then maybe weeks later they're coming back. And, um, yeah, it's just, um, it's, but now I'm like seeing if the ones who stay, they're the leaning in, right? And I think this is for me, this is where community is going, it's redefining relationships to me. Like, I, when I enter a romantic container again, I don't wanna close off these friendships with these guys, right? Like I might have in the past. To me, that's not servicing anybody. It's, uh, you need to honor, and I, whoever that future partner is, I'm gonna honor connections too, right? Because we need this and community. This is, to me, this is where it's slowly, it feels new, but I'm sensing it's very ancient way of working with each other.
I think, like, I get, I hear what you're saying, Joy, but I think it's important to work with, like, boundaries. Do you know what I mean? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I know, like, I know for me, I, I, I can tell when someone, like a male friend, is kind of like, maybe one day, you know, type of thing. Maybe one day. And I'm just like, no, no, no. You know, I, like, I, I think there, there needs to be boundaries and kind of like, I, I Did, do we ever kind of lightly touch on like Mary Magdalene and, and stuff like that?
I don't think so.
Did you ever get into that?
No.
I, I highly recommend because, um, I, I'm, I am starting to believe in a sacred container.
Sacred. Oh, totally, totally.
Sacred. Like, I, the, the, like, I highly recommend for anybody to, to start getting into, even men, even men, um, like Mary Magdalene. There's a few books that, like, they're, they're, they're my Bible, you know. They're— I was like, what? Like, when they describe— because I know Mary Magdalene in the church has been painted as a prostitute, which That's, that's not it. That's not it. They were scared of her power, right? She was actually, and by the way, I'm not religious. I like completely like disregarded all that, but I, it actually started to come to me. Mm-hmm. Like these books started to come to me and I wasn't even asking for them, but they started to come to me and I was like, ooh, I like this. I really like, like, this was like the feminine power that was like, That's what I'm looking for. That's what— and sacred partnership where I was like, yeah, this exists. That's what I, you know, that's what I think.
What you're saying about boundaries. Yeah, you have to set them if you're going to be friends or to me, friends is a very surface word for it. I would call it more soul geometry, but, um, or it's union. That's not. Romantic. It's still intimate, right? It's very intimate, actually. It's vulnerability. It's, it's, you're doing all the things, you're just not romantic, uh, you know, with it. For me, it's the sacred stuff would be the romantic one where you, it goes even deeper. You're in there in person, obviously you're having sex, you're, you're doing all the things, right? And it's. It's extremely sacred. And my whole messy self working with meeting these guys, and each one was teaching me a boundary that I needed to slowly realize, ah, I really desire this sacred union. That's what my soul wants. Not that I'm not— I'm also here for communion and community, right? Um, but until this container is, you know, met, which is completely the right word, um, fused, I'm still in the playground of learning by, by doing this. And, and so as I was, would learn, oh, I need to have this boundary within myself or with them, I would name it, right? Yeah. And be like, this is, I, you know, we tapped into this energy, but For me, that's sacred union thing. So I'm not going to engage in that anymore. I'm learning that's where I want to experience that, not in this. Okay, now, oh, you're showing me this. Okay, well, let's, let's, what do we want this to be between us? Right? This is how I'm feeling. I'm feeling platonic. You feel platonic? Okay, good. We're on the same page. Right? Because it's, it can get confusing. You can feel all the potential. Your oracle self can see the potential. And then I've gotten in trouble with that and clinging to that. We kind of talked about that, but, um, it's to me, let yourself be messy, man or woman. And it's, it's learning. That's how you learn. Yeah. You can probably read books on all this, but the embodiment of it is, is doing it and setting it. And I know for me it was major lessons in boundaries. Because I did not have very many, and I need— we learned. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Now I'm thinking back to that male heart and needing that love, because that's what you see with your oracle self. At least for me, I can see what that love will do to them before the transformation. It will occur, and it's like, oh, I just want to Superman you and give it You know, right? Like, of course, why not? I am love. Take it.
Of course.
Like, it's just not what it's learning to, to, to, you know what I, but I need to honor my, I need to, that was what the boundary was. I was like, ah, that needs to be honored. This is sacred. This is not for everybody.
This is a portal.
Yes.
This is a, but like, it's funny cuz I absolutely resonate with you. Joy. Like I, I, I remember doing that in the past being like, I'm just gonna blast you with love. Now I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Like you gonna see Clark Kent for now.
Like, I, I have, I have worked so hard to bring myself back into here because granted, through all my experiences that I've been through, I would say I'm a very, like, empathetic, compassionate, loving person naturally. I still had blockages around my heart because of all the things that I went through in the past.
Yeah.
And I have really, like, I have reclaimed that. I— this is the most precious thing to me. This, this reconnected my heart, reconnected me to me and, um, into the divine. Like, I literally, I, like, I've become so more sensitive and more intuitive. And even now when I do see a man's potential, I'm like, haha, that's an old me that would fall for it. I'm not falling for it anymore. Are you gonna show up? Are you gonna rise up? Are you going to be there? And, and, and, and, you know, like, yes, I can see your potential. Yes, I can love on you, but oh, this This is a little bit more like, I don't know if maybe guarded, but not in a bad way. More like, are you willing to rise up?
Are you honoring it?
Yes. Like, can you honor this? Because if you can, then I'll invite you deeper into—
well, you won't be Superman, but slowly, slowly.
It's more like, you know what I'd like to strip tease.
You know what I like as analogy? As analogy?
Yes, yes, yes. Um, you know what I like to think about the heart as? Like, obviously throughout our experiences through different things, I feel like for a lot of us, we're walking around with like this little closed bud. Right? But the heart in actuality is this the most beautiful multi-layered petalled flower that you slowly open one.
Yeah.
And then you open a— and it's like, it's very slow, but it's beautiful. And it's like, you think you get to the end, like you think that there's an end. Oh, there's no end.
There's that, like, because that's multidimensional.
Yes. Because I've experienced this with myself. I'm like, every time I was hit with love with myself, I was like, okay, that's the deepest level. And then the divine's like, haha, we'll show you the next level. Right? And I, and it got to the point where I was like, oh my God, I don't think I can take any more of this love. Like, it's beautiful, but it's like, there's only so much our physical bodies can, can take. And so I've realized it's like, there's all these deep, beautiful levels. Um, and yeah, women are, I would say, braver to dive into it because to dive, to dive into your heart is to go through the darkness, is to go through the shadows, is through to go through the pain. You have to, you have to, right? And I feel like just women are braver to do that. And for men, it like terrifies them, you know?
Well, I think they— I feel like they do it quietly. Like the ones that I've known who've done it, it's not— it's a very internal process. Not that it isn't for us as well. We're just more verbal about it. And, um, and it creates the magnetism. Um, so it has this external flavor to it. Um, I could be wrong cuz obviously I'm not a man, but I, from what I've seen, it's like, no, they, the ones who are doing the ones that really are on that path, or they are, I mean, the way they go about it is intense. I mean, cuz they, you know, I mean, it's so focused and it's like laser eyes on it. Why am I on so on a Superman today? What? But it's so gorgeous too when you realize like, oh, he's really— he really looked at that. Holy shit. Okay, really?
I guess I have to meet somebody like that because most of the guys I've seen or been around have been like, let me Let me taste, let me, let me get a taste of this and then run the other way.
And I'm like, no, most do that. That's, I would say the common response, but, um, I don't know fully what I freaking went through this summer, but it started off like that. And then, then the ones that were doing the work started showing up. I mean, it was quite a progression. Um, And I've also used it as a mirror of like my own progression, right? Like, oh, there's these types of men are showing up now. Oh, okay. Um, who are doing this kind of stuff. This is being internal work.
Yes. Yeah, exactly.
Um, and no, they have such depth. They have such depth. Um, but the problem is kind of go back to what I was talking about earlier is it's not always translatable to me, um, because they have their own language for it, their own structure, and it doesn't quite match what I— for me, I'm— it's obviously intuitive, it's very somatic, and it's very energetic. Those are like— mix those and that's my language, right? And also symbology. I have a lot of third eye visions and symbology. Um, and they're coming at it with different language. So I can, I can feel I'm using all my stuff. I can sense that depth. And, but when they explain it, it doesn't always land. And that's why I'm like, ah, that's why I need you to stay around in the fire with me. Let's rub each other. Right. I'm not afraid of friction. I'm really not. I'm leaning in, man. Can you lean into the friction? Like, as we, as we do these petals and blue and ones that are like, yeah, I want to do that. Like, I will lean into the friction and it gets messy, right? But, but, but we're both staying at it. Even if we wobble, we're staying and we're weaving at it. To me, that's just Beautiful.
That is beautiful because, yeah, like, see, I guess some people think, oh, it has to be a certain way, it has to look perfect, and it has to feel perfect. And it's like, actually, we're all figuring this out and it's going to be messy. And, but it's like, can you stay when it gets messy?
Yeah.
Are you willing to lean in? Right? And again, like, And not bypass, right? And this is, this is kind of like what it reminds me of, like when we were talking a little bit in the beginning, um, even with my friend, what she's going through now. Most women can lean in. We want to, like, we actually want to lean in into the mess and try and figure it out. But then there's the men who are like, Like they're not fricking there. They're, they're, they're, there's these walls. They're like, no, they can't be invited in deeper. And then women eventually get you, get to the point of like, okay, well you're not willing to dance this dance with me, figure this out and go deeper and blah, blah, blah. So peace, I'm leaving. It's not worth, you know, dealing like a lifetime with trying to talk to someone who just doesn't get it. Who just doesn't lean in, who doesn't initiate themselves into this, you know? Like, I, it's crazy how many women are getting to this point. Like the friend that I was talking about, she's not even like really into this type of work. A little bit, but not, not really. Not really. Right. Which is fine. Like her and I connect on so many different things. Um, but it's funny cuz she's, she's like, I'm tired. Yeah. I'm tired. And so, so many women are tired.
We're tired. Like, well, I think from my own experience, I've reached that with several romantic relationships in the past at where I get tired, especially my last one. And. You're doomed to repeat in another flavor, maybe, right? But, um, if you don't, yeah, in another meat suit, if you don't, um, set those boundaries, right? Or do as, do that inner work. And same for the men. I mean, if, if she's burnt out, there's a reason, right? And it's not just all him. It's obvious. It's. It's when things end like that, it's never one way. We all know that, right? And it's all layered. There's not like this one reason that they did and it's this one simple thing and that's it. No, that's never, that's never the reason.
Yeah.
It's, you know, small things just piled up typically. Um, yeah. Or at least for women, that's how it, it's a slow, like, oh no, you're right. That's by a thousand cuts kind of a thing.
Absolutely.
Yeah, because we will just take it. We, because we love so deep and so real. And that's another, this whole thing for me was reframing and relensing how I even view love because I, I grew up in the church. I, I write about this. I don't think it's published yet. I haven't scheduled them. Who knows when, but like I was taught Jesus, others, yourself, right? So, and that was what was mirrored to me in my, my reality growing up was, uh, you show love by just giving and you just give and you give and you give and you just take it. You take the pain because that is love, right? And then it's like, mm, this don't feel very loving. No, I'm not getting anything back. Or the one I feel like I'm getting breadcrumbs when I'm making this whole fucking Thanksgiving dinner. Right. Um, so I was like, let's, let's throw that lens away. That's not love. Now I gotta figure out what it is and, and feel into it. And it has a completely different energy. Right. It's obviously more beautiful and it's, it's less self-sacrificing very much because it's honoring itself. You know?
Oh, absolutely. But see, that's what's taught that you're being selfish. No, you're not. You're, you need to pour your own cup first in order to then be able to fill everyone else's cup and which women usually do. Women are usually the ones that are always pouring into everybody else other than themselves. And then they get burnt out.
They.
you know, start not looking great, right? Because it's like their life force energy is literally, literally being depleted from them when ultimately they actually should be prioritizing themselves, loving themselves, pouring their own cup. Because from there, oh, that's, that's where that abundance is of like where they could like pour into here and there because they replenish themselves first, right? But again, society taught us that, oh, that's selfish, you're self-centered. Nope. No. Yeah, you gotta love yourself first. Like, I, I actually believe that, like, you need to love yourself first in order to know what the hell love is.
Um, preaching.
And what, and what you deserve, you know?
Yeah.
Then you know how you like to be loved, you know, instead of constantly waiting for somebody else to love you. And then you're like, wait a minute, I don't know if this feels right, or this, this is, you know. And then that obviously is the mess of this journey, but it does get to a point where it's like, you know what, I've been loving all these other people, taking care of all these other people, right, as, as women, right? It's time for me. And I do feel like a lot of women do get to that point. Oh yes, women, right?
I think we are. I think we are.
Yeah.
And, but, um, it's deeper than just self-care and like putting on a face mask and shit like that, right?
It's part of, part of that, but yeah, it's deeper. Deeper.
It's, yeah. Yeah. It's, that might be an outward expression, but the inner work is realizing your capacity and honoring it and setting that, the framework or the boundaries around it, right?
Yeah.
It's okay to actually, you're the one safeguarding that, that portal, that well, right? And until you find the container for it, who's receptive and willing to pour back. Oh, do you just keep keeping it to yourself? Like, it just— yeah, I'm dumping it on my own head. I'm just stopping.
Absolutely. But you know what I like to call that, Joy, is like your own inner masculine, your own inner— yeah, protector, your own inner, um, king in a way, right? Um, and that's actually— it's, it's interesting because that's what when I was tapping into that fear of like, you know, the feminine consciousness, disappointment, sadness, fear around men and what they've done to us, I also realized, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is like where we develop our own inner protector, um, our own inner masculine that comes out and he, he, he has that sword. Right inside of us. Like, but, but that translates into boundaries, into like, I will not contort and bend myself in order to please you because I don't freaking know you. And you need to show me that you're gonna show up. Like, you need to prove to me that you can replace my inner masculine for me to completely, as you like to say, like, super right. Like, That's, that's when that containment comes in, because it's like my inner freaking king, emperor, master, whatever you want to call it, it doesn't really matter, right? That masculine side of you is standing by your side with a sword of like, I will not give, give, give, give, give, give to prove myself to you. No, no, no, no, that's the other way around. Men, that's the other way around. It, that's just the way it is. Like, it needs to be that way because of all the things that women have been through, you know? Um, and when I was talking like about this, it's interesting because this analogy came to me. Um, and I, I feel like I need to say it for whatever reason, but I, I think it was like a week ago, this analogy came in. I was like, oh my gosh, I think this is what it means. Do you know, like, I'm sure you know the typical like, uh, Disney fairy tale of like, you know how like the princess is stuck in a castle and there's that, uh, dragon, right? And the prince comes and saves her, right? And like, you know, as little girls, like that, that's literally what we are programmed also to be like, oh, like Prince Charming, come and get us type of thing. I've realized that's actually an analogy for our own inner masculine.
Isn't that beautiful?
That we keep our feminine trapped, and a lot of us have kept our feminine trapped. And the dragon represents like the shadow, the shadow work, right? In order to, for that like masculine part of us to slay the dragon in a way, right? And then release the, the, the, that inner goddess in us, right? That, that like, it's actually us saving ourselves. It's us protecting ourselves. It's us, not anyone else. Like women, like do not allow a man to, a man to do this unless you see through consistent action that he's there.
But he stays. Yeah.
Yes. Then you can release that sword. Yes. And then you can release that sword to him. But that happens only through devotion. Right.
This is, I, um, I had a similar story come to me. I haven't written it down yet, but I'll share it. And at first I was picturing it as myself as like this fairy and one of my masculine friends as the dragon. But then as I was playing with the story in my mind, it was like going down this labyrinth, and, um, I realized, ah, I'm the dragon. Um, because I— the little fairy character who would be me is like seeing the bones that this dragon ate, you know, and like the carcasses And then it was like, that's kind of gross. But, um, then it was like, oh, that's me doing my inner work. That's the dragon. Like, and I'm seeing it. I'm putting light on it. Right. I'm looking at it now. And yeah, when she gets down to the dragon, um, they're not scared of each other. Right. Because you've done that. You've walked the labyrinth, you've seen the skeletons, you've seen the pain, you've touched it with love, right? Yeah.
Yeah.
You, then you get to the dragon and you're like, oh my gosh, you're so beautiful.
I love you. Yeah. Right.
And then you can fly off, but it's, it's to me, that's a mythical way of explaining that union within yourself.
Yeah. Right.
Dark and light, masculine, feminine, however you want to, left, right. Whatever, right?
Yeah.
Logic and sensing. It doesn't, you can relabel it however you need, but that's, I'll write it down eventually. It lives in my brain, so it'll get on words at some point. But, um, to me, when it comes to sacred union, both people, regardless of their sex, have to be in that state, right? They have to come into union with their light and dark. And it won't work. It just won't work. You're going to fall into some one of these traps. And you know that now. And it's a little— it's beautiful, but it's also humbling because you're like, oh, the dating pool just really shrunk on who I believe to even go into this kind of container again. But I'm so secure in what's myself now, I'm okay no matter how long it takes. That was where I got to. I'm like, I don't have to be trying to reach for it or projecting. Like, no, I'm good. I'm good. It'll, we talked about divine timing, right? When it's time, it'll happen. And I'm not, you know, reaching or searching or anything. It's, I'm just ready. And when they're ready, it'll, it'll happen.
That, that's, that's, that's a beautiful word because I, I totally agree with you, Joy, and I'm there too, where it's like, I'm good. I've, I have gone through too much. I've done too much work on myself. I have come into inner union. I've, I've tapped into the deepest wells of myself and my love. By myself that I know I can access that, but like, do I desire somebody to come in and like where I can pass my sword to him? Absolutely. I desire that. And just like you, I'm like, I know I'm ready, but I also know that that's going to find me and I don't have to desperately search for it. I don't have, like, I, I just gotta stay. In my own, um, container and like my own boundaries, right? Of like, this is where I'm at. You like it, great. You don't, there's the door. And whereas before I, I would have like— that was more like in, in your shadow, uh, feminine. When— because I, I've understood now what the distorted feminine looks like, and the distorted feminine is the one that desires attention, who does anything, anything for a man. Doesn't matter. And he doesn't, he doesn't even have to do anything. She, she'll just freaking do it, right? She'll give, give, give, give, give, give of herself without him. And it's like trying to convince him to choose her. That's actually the distorted and wounded feminine, right? Where she hasn't come into inner union. She hasn't felt her own love. She hasn't felt her own worth, so she's trying to get it from the outside, but that will always leave her more wrecked and abused at the end because you're like, please prove my worth to me.
Oh yeah, that's what it is.
Yeah.
And, um, versus saying, I know my worth, right? I am it, right? That's cool. That's very different than like, please reflect it back so I can see it.
Yeah.
That's to me, that's, and it's so tender even in that distortion.
Absolutely. Yeah.
But, um, well, if he knows what he's doing, he'll be like, mm, you need to, you need to look at yourself. But if he doesn't, he might try to fill that and then it hurts both people.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Because he's not going to reflect it.
No. No.
And, and she's not going to feel it. And then they're both gonna be like, all pain, no gain.
Yeah.
It's not funny, but which, which, which honestly that, that is most relationships, right?
Always trying to like get from one another, you know, like prove to me that I'm worthy, prove to me that I'm loved and, and like never first fricking looking within and realizing like the things that they are desiring, it first exists within, right? And again, but again, that is that, like, when you both come from, like, filled cups. Oh, and like, not like I have experienced it, but I can tap into that, and I'm just like, whoa, that's a next level thing. That's a next level type of relationship when both people have, like, these beautiful filled cups of— and I'm not talking about anything external, by the way. If anyone's like, oh, what does that mean, like fulfilling a career blah, blah, blah, blah. No, you can be working on those things. You don't need to have everything perfect on the outside, but are you perfect and whole in the inside? Because when you are, it doesn't really matter what the hell is going on on the outside.
No, that's so true. It doesn't, you don't have to be in any certain state. It's all about the internal state.
Yeah.
And, um, that's true for pretty much anything. It has to start there. Yeah, no, I haven't experienced it romantically, but the parts I have tasted, man, they're amazing. And no, and it is reciprocated. And it's just love. It's very loving. And Yeah, like the holding space and just being cared for like that and getting to do it. I think for me, of course, I want to be transformed by someone else's love, right? And I want them to want to be and, you know, lean into being transformed by mine. And for me, the desire to give is so much stronger than to receive, but I've looked at my own self in multiple lenses and I'm like, ah, that's just how I'm wired in a way. But, um, other people might have a different orientation to that. But, um, but it's also learning that about yourself. I'm also leaning in. I have a very strike first kind of energy, like initiatory energy and spark. And it's. Not necessarily masculine, but it's not necessarily overtly feminine type, like, too.
But like, what do you mean? Like, uh, give an example.
Because, um, when, when something lights me up, um, like I see— well, it's all in relation, so let me try to put words to all this. So, okay, it'll get messy, but we're good.
That's okay, that's okay. We're here for the mess.
Um, One, it— if I, like, today I got an intuitive hit to ask one of my male friends, like, hey, when you talk about this, is it like this movie scene? It was Interstellar. Um, and, um, I was like, should I say that? Or, you know, is that me talking too much? And it was like, do I Just fucking do it. Yeah. And I did. And he had a beautiful moment and he felt seen and it was gorgeous. Right. Um, because I took that initiatory step, even though I was like, eh, maybe he's, he's might be busy. And I'm like, no, just do it. Um, even with people I, who I knew on Substack, like I think I reached out to you like, hey, I wanna do a podcast with you. Right. Um, doing that initiatory thing, and then now with other females, it might not come across as masculine or whatever, but to a man, I, it might be like, why, like, why is she in my DMs trying to talk to me? And then I get in myself like, oh, am I supposed to be all a little misreceptive and like, you know, just hold back? And that, and it's a restraint of my own energy and it's like, Well, there's a way to go about it. Right. And that would be the invitation. It's all in how I interact with my own, like use it instead of just being like, hey, I got an intuitive hit. You and I, we're connected. Let's get this ball rolling, Superman. Just pause. Let's not, not, not. That's totally my energy. And I, for me, that is. Perfectly normal and fine. And if somebody did that to me, I'd be like, hell yeah, right? But that's me. So it's like, oh, let's wear this in a way that's an invitation. That's not supermanning them, right? That's just like, oh, I see something's here. Do we want to explore this? Um, yes or no type of thing.
Yeah.
Do you— you resonating with this? 'cause I'm feeling it. And oh, that was a big messy way to learn how to embrace that about myself versus like, well, they have to come to me. And it's kind of detangling that old, for me, that's a very feminine way. Like we are the receptors and we receive and, which we do totally. Yeah. And everybody's a step both, right? I don't know. Can you make sense of any of that?
No, no, I, I, I do. Because the funny thing is I'm actually very similar, Joy, like very, um, well, you and I, yes. I mean, you can tell. Um, I, yeah, I've, I've, I've always been a very like initiating, like I'm, I just, I freaking know and I go. I, I don't, I don't ask questions. I ask questions later. And to be honest, I had to learn. Um, throughout like my young life to kind of sometimes hold back, cuz sometimes I would make very impulsive decisions where I'm like, mm-hmm, Alexandra, you should have thought about this a little bit, you know, like just hold your horses. I know you wanna like go and like, you know, but hold your horses. And, but I think what you're describing is, is fine. Like I think that's, that's, that's a beautiful thing. That's just part of your nature. That's the same with me, but I will tell you, Joy, for me, I don't do that to in dating anymore cuz I actually used to do that in dating as well. I was very like, okay, like bam, bam, like this, like, but I, I just, I don't do that in dating anymore because what I want is a masculine man and I know a masculine man will do that with me. And also that's what I'm trying to see, like the consistency. Consistency of like, is he good in initiating stuff? Is he good? Like, that's kind of my test. It doesn't mean I won't ever do that. I probably will because again, it is my, like, a little bit more in my nature. But that I will, I feel like I can only start to tap into that once I've really established like a container with somebody, right? Until then, no, no, no. Like, I'm gonna be in like what I like, I like to call it like I'm in my goddess energy. Like, yes, I want to receive. I deserve to receive. I've been overgiving for, for a long period of time, and I just don't want to overgive anymore to the wrong person. And so, like, it's funny, I told my friend Joy, uh, one of my friends who she's like into all of this stuff, and she's, she's like, you know, one of like that soul family type of people. And I told her, I'm like, listen. The guy I end up with, good luck to him because he's, he's gonna go through it. Like, I'm not making this easy. I am not making this easy at all. I don't care. I've been, I've, I've been easy before. Now, no, no, no. And, but I'm like, but that's how I will know that that's my man. That's how I will know. And I feel like all women actually should do this. Because it, in all honesty, in all, in all honesty, um, if a man knows that you're it, he will go through the trenches. He will go through the fires. He will prove himself to be consistent in showing up for you. And if he's not, then I'm telling you ladies, he is not it. You're contorting yourself. You are just trying in a way to have him like choose you, you know, like doing things so that he can choose. Why, why, why? When there are men out there who literally will, you will know, you'll freaking know. It's like anything other than that is just not worth it. Right. And so I, I, I know for me, I'm like, mm. No, I, I'd rather put my, like, initiation, like, you know, those kind of moves into, like, collaborations or stuff like that. Or even if, like, I'm talking to a friend that's, you know, the opposite sex or like, you know what, like that kind of thing where I'm like, I know this energy isn't serious, but when it becomes serious and then— see, she's only being receptive. That's it.
I'm still playing with it. I don't know. To me, dating is, it looks so different now. Um, it's like, I, I don't even know. I'm like still trying to figure it out. I don't even know if I will date, you know? Um, I feel like it'll come from, blossom out of a friendship or something. Not friendship, you know, a soul connection. Yeah. Um, because I, yeah, I'm like, I just, I just said I don't want to waste my time. Yeah.
Not worth it.
I don't like, I just, um, I wanna see, you know, if they can do that dance, that soul. I know it has to be a soul connection. Person.
Absolutely.
If they— if I'm not feeling that, I'm like, you can be as cool as fuck, but like, that's just not gonna happen, right?
Like, no, we—
that's a minimum baseline. We need that level depth.
Yeah, right.
Um, and we could play with it how we want, but that's— you don't make that cut, I'm not your person, and I know it, and I'll straight up tell you to your face.
Yeah, yeah.
But, um, no, I'm still exploring the whole dating thing and I was so messy about it with, in this past year, just cuz I, for myself, it was all about learning to become centered or sovereign, however you wanna put it. Right. Yeah. And it was this kind of initiation into that. And I saw how I was just projecting romance because I wanted that.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, because I know I'm built for it. I know when I get it right, it's gonna be so fucking good.
Right.
But, um, oh, I mean, I needed to experience all that. So, but even that wasn't dating. Right. So I'm, I don't know. I don't, to me it's all like a blank canvas. I'm not even sure what to write on because I'm like, that's okay. Yeah. I'm like, I'm not— I don't want to talk to 20 guys online. That's how it is when you do online dating, right? If you're a female, you just get flooded with messages, and, um, usually most of them are assholes that want your body or something, right? I was like, I don't want to dip into that anymore. So I don't know. Um, that's okay. I'm still exploring it. And right now I'm just so— now that I'm like at this centered point and I'm so like really diving into astronaut of life and just exploring things and learning to speak and all, I'm—
Good for you.
For me right now, even though I almost in a way crave that sacred union, it's still kind of off to the side. It's not the focus anymore. I'm the focus for myself. This right now is there. And I think I'm not in it yet, but I'm, I'm thinking even when I'm in it, it's gonna stay like that. Or maybe it'll be like this. I don't know. But I'm still figuring it all out.
That's okay. And, and, and you're allowed to, and you can, right? Like, same thing when, when I went on those couple of dates, which was mostly like last year. And I kind of did a, actually not many, cause I, I'm very like, I'm also a very, um, because I'm so sensitive, I just, I can't entertain anything. That's just not, I, I just, I can't, I can't, I, I can't, I know myself. Right. Uh, but I, I did like a little bit recently, but not like crazy. And it's funny cause I, I. Did my last date and I was like, I'm done. I'm done. Like I actually, I, before I went on that date, I was like, yeah, this is gonna be my last one in terms of like the online thing. Cause I'm just like, I know myself. I can't, like, I, I can't, like if it's not—
it doesn't resonate anymore to do it that way.
No.
Right.
And, and like, and I know my energy, my work, my healing. Has become way too precious and I'm just like, it's not worth it. And that's why, like, that's why for me, Joy, like I have come to the, a place where I'm like, I am not gonna initiate stuff. Like I, I just, I can't, I'm not gonna do that. Used to be what I used to do and not anymore. Like I just like, I can't unless that container is like, it's fused, it's there, it's solid, then, then of course, like, both individuals can dance in that and figure their own thing out, right? Obviously that's gonna be like, I, I don't know, like, that's gonna be whatever that's gonna be and I'm gonna figure that out. But yeah, now I'm very like, you come in correct or you leave. Like, that's my, and, and it, I know that can sound and be So like maybe off-putting, but to me it's not, cuz I'm just like, I've been, I've been through it where it's like, I know me, I know who I am, I know what I want, I know my boundaries. I, I, I just know and I'm not willing to bend anymore. Not willing to bend. And the, the right person will get that.
You know, I think they will. I, well, what I'm learning with these soul connections is especially a new one, it has potential to take whatever shape it wants, whether it's romantic or, or not. Right. And so I'm still fine maybe initiating that cuz I'm like, mm, I feel like Uh, at least for now, this is where I'm playing, right?
That's fine.
But, um, when it comes to romance, I think I'm more in line with you. I might be like, hey, I'm open to whatever. That's me. That includes the romance, right? If that's where it leads. But to me, he'll need to name it. That's, um, and if he names it, then I can kind of be like, oh yeah, I'm feeling this too. Or like, mm. No, that's not how I'm, I'm doing it this way.
Right.
Um, and to me, when you're in those connections, you're not just talking, there's energy you're communicating with too. And if, especially if both people know how to read energy, you can, um, it's like you're having two different kinds of conversations. Um, so you're like, hmm, where does this energy between us? Want to move? What shape? Are we here to work together, to co-create? Are we— and to support each other? Or are we here to walk our lives together and really like deep dive into the romance, into that sacred union? Like, where's this? Where's this shape taking? And, and for me, it's like, can I back off enough to let it form without trying to cling to it? Force it in a direction because that's where I want it to go. And it's like, oh, I've totally done that. And it blew up. And ironically, they still stuck around, right? So I was like, that's pretty cool.
But, um, well, that's a good test. That's like, that's like a good, like, you know, like, oh, you're here.
Cool.
Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, that's That's how, I don't know. That's where I'm at in it all. And it's, oh, I'm very excited for sacred union stuff. Oh man. I, I feel like I'm ready to go, but obviously I don't know what I don't know either. And I know I'm, it's, oh, I'm hearing right around the corner. I'll take that.
I mean, hell, it can be. You know what, Joy, like I really do feel like 2025 has been a year of destruction, right? Oh yes. Yeah, for a lot of us. And, um, I feel like moving into 2026, there's these like seedlings that are going to be sprouting and, and that includes everything, love, job, career, everything, right? That like they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, and I feel like they're starting. Now, to be honest, right? I don't— because like, I feel like the energy starts way before the physical, right? That's just always how it is, right? The, the potential of that energy is always there, and then it kind of manifests in the physical. Um, but yeah, I mean, definitely could be around the corner.
We'll take it. We'll take it, right?
It's like, I'm ready to lay down my sword? No worries, I could pass that off. I've been carrying it for way too long, type of thing, right? I, I, I get that. Truly, truly. But I don't know, like, I've kept wanting to, to mention, um, and like, again, I don't— I know you said you didn't really dive into like the whole Mary Magdalene thing, but there's one book that I feel like at least for me, I know some other women as well, 'cause I, this is kind of how I started hearing about this book, describes like the most beautiful sacred union. Um, it's called the Magdalene Manuscript.
Oh, I have heard of that.
Oh, okay. I thought you said you read it. I was like, oh my God. I I, I, oh my God, that book. I was, it's like, I'm like, this is a holy scripture or something. I was like, if this exists, that's what I want type of thing.
Uh, yeah. Well, I wrote it down, so I will go investigate, but thank you.
It made me cry a few times cuz I was like, no, like I just, I, well, I just, let me ask you this, Alexandra.
Do you, I feel like whether male or female, just being in a soul, right? Just as a soul, all of us, we know that exists on a deep level and we want it. We all crave it on that deep level. And we go through life and we learn all the wrong things and then we deconstruct it all to even feel that. Right. Yeah. I, to me, I, I can't imagine anybody not having that desire at some, at that. It's a very deep one, like a very deep soul desire. That's what it, that's what it feels like to me.
Yeah.
And it's more how, what level of honesty are you on, on, on like, if you want that or not, right? And as a female, one, we're programmed to, in a way, almost to point ourselves towards romance and love in life, right? Or at least probably the way you and I grew up. Maybe that's shifting now a little bit, but, um, so maybe we tap into that sooner, but I, to me, no, it's everybody. Everybody, because you are fully seen. Mm-hmm.
Right?
You were fully met. Mm-hmm. Um, with consistency and love, right? At the, uh, deep level. So yeah, I think, I know, like, yeah, that's where I'm pointing towards, right?
Um, so no, so I was going to say, did you have a question about like Do you think that everybody wants it or?
I don't really know what I was saying.
If I was asking a question, that's fine. But I, I guess that's what I was kind of receiving from that is, um, yeah, I, I think we all want it and I think we want it because to be honest. A lot of us have not had a healthy example of it. And I do think that that's been done for a reason. I think, um, to destroy, like, the family unit was done for a reason because then you're easy to control, you're easy to manipulate, you're easy to sell to, right? So now it's literally like what I feel is like a lot of people are like these lost souls trying to understand, like, what it is that they're looking for and what they need. And, and they're not realizing that first it exists within. And then there— they do crave that, like, yeah, like you said, it's like to be fully seen and accepted by somebody else, right? Like, you have to do that within yourself first. Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. You have to do that because if you can't accept yourself, how can you expect another person to, right? Um, but it's like once you get there, cause like I have, I have definitely got there.
Yeah.
And like then to be witnessed by another person, even in all your mess and everything, and then they're still like, they like, yes, absolutely. We, we, I feel like we all crave that, which is why, again, like kind of bringing this back around, it's like there are so many women who are just leaving mundane, destructive, toxic relationships. And even the women who aren't fully like on this healing journey, like I said, I have some friends who like a little bit but not fully, right? Maybe they will eventually get more into it, I don't know, uh, but they're even starting to be like, what is this? What, like, what, like, what am I doing in this container if you're not willing to show up? And so it's like, men, men, you guys listening, like, if you're in a container with someone, if you're in a relationship with someone and you're not You're not doing the work. I really feel like women are, we're leaving. It's like, it's, it's, I was shocked to see how many relationships are just, they're, they're dissolving because they're just not willing to do the same damn dance anymore. Right?
No, totally. No. And it. Yeah. I'm like, well, we already touched on that because if you don't look at it within yourself, you're going to repeat it again.
Yeah.
Yeah. With that new flavor, but we already talked about that. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's, well, they say there's like that loneliness epidemic with men because, right? Um, we, there's also culturally women. Don't need men for security or, or, you know, like monetary stuff, right? We can, we're actually going to college more. We have, there's more females with degrees now than men or something. I'm horrible with statistics. I can't give you, but I think that's something. Um, so it's like, yeah, it's. We're building that for ourselves, but it's also, in a way, it's a little skewed because if you, as a female, if you go too far into that, you're not in your real divine feminine, right? You're being more masculine. And it's good to make these accomplishments and stuff, but it— sorry, I'm seeing this comment.
Yeah, I know.
That's not what we're saying.
That's not what we're saying. We want you to rise up and stand up. That's what we're saying. Heal. Wake up.
That's what we're saying. Yeah. Well, it's— right now, it's— right now, we're talking about more surface level, very cultural, right?
That comment that just came in, that is true. I actually wanted to say that. I do believe that. Your feminine can fully, fully come online, like completely, with, with a healthy masculine. Let's make that very clear— a healthy embodied masculine. Absolutely, you know, absolutely. Because before that comes in, we do have to play into both polarities and energies. If you're not there for us, then we have to develop that, right? So absolutely. And I'm like, literally, women want nothing more but to lay down their, their sword, right? That, that masculine container. But that can only happen with— absolutely, absolutely. It, it takes a healthy embodied feminine as well, but A lot of women are waking up to that. We are.
Yeah. Yeah, we are. And it, um, and the men are too, but like I said, it's not as loud, I don't think, for some reason.
It's, it's honestly, women are like, I've said this before, women are leading the way to this because If enough women hold their standards and don't bend, don't contort, don't like get desperate just in order to have somebody, if we all freaking hold those standards up high, obviously men are gonna have to wake up. Like, obviously, you know, it's either like you rise up or we will do this thing without you. And yes, actually, our choice then would be like, yeah, we don't want to breed with you. And then what? It all stops.
Yeah. Oh, this is such a fun topic, but it's real. It's It's real and I don't know, to me it's not overly talked about a lot, you know? Um, it's just, we're all playing with it. We're all doing it in one way or another, but, um, we're not fully having a discourse about it. So that's why I'm really glad we did today. Yeah.
I don't know if my— is my dog coming through?
Yeah, but that's okay. I can hear him in the background. It's okay, JD. I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, you're telling her what? That's okay. I'm reading the comments.
I know, I know. That's why I was replying to some of them, because No.
Yeah. No. Well, man or women, you need to know how to recognize if they are in that state or not. Right? Yeah. If you, if you're a man and you're in your embodied state, you're gonna recognize, well, you actually can recognize even if you're not, cuz when it'll be, have that magnetism, right? Yeah. And that mystery, that allure. Energetically.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. You're talking about my pointy crystal, Jade. I don't know what that has to do with what we're talking about though, right now with this, except, yeah. Okay. Oh, we're gonna leave that be. Is there anything else we wanna touch on about all of this, Alexandra?
I feel like, feel like it's complete. I, I know we touched on so many things and I'm sure, I'm sure like on the journey of this, it's like we can, there's probably gonna be more, which, well, at some point we're both gonna be in that container and we can talk about that. And like, I'll just say like, I know in that container, like when I finally come to it, I know it's gonna have its own challenges. I know that.
Oh yeah.
I know it's not gonna be smooth, but it's like that person also has to step up and rise up to the, to the plate and, you know, face those challenges. Right.
So, yeah. No. Yeah, exactly. Cuz that's what it contains.
Well, um, yeah, I feel like we should end cuz I actually have some Okay, well, this was lovely.
Thank you so much, and we'll do it again soon.
Bye-bye.
