Karamo sits down with 13-year-old Heaven, who claims she's grown and has been in over 15 fights, and her mother Latrice. Heaven started acting out around age 11 after being bullied and called racial slurs at school, which led her to contemplate suicide. Karamo connects her aggression to the trauma she's experienced and proposes counseling and quality time to rebuild their relationship.
Chapters
I can act how I wanna act.
She's not grown. I need you to stop saying that.
I'm grown.
You not grown, you 16.
I done been over 15 fights, street and school. I get down with whoever, whenever, what time, it don't matter. I got a reputation and know what's up. I smoke, drink, fight. You wanna start shit, you gonna get hit. I just feel like I'm a fucking adult. My mom, she got the audacity to start talking. She need to mind her business and sit down, for real. She thinks she can run my life and be in my business and tell me what to do and try to stop me from talking to who I wanna talk to, try to stop me from drinking and smoking. She's wrong. Everybody pissing me off. Everybody just need to back up. Even your cameraman pissing me off, Karamo.
Everyone, let's meet Heaven's mother, Latrice. Latrice, welcome to the show. That's, I hadn't seen that before. Is this how Heaven is always acting?
Yes.
Constantly?
That's how she behaves, yes. She does the most. If it's not her way, she's going off, wanting to fight, smoking, drinking, attitude, just doing just too much.
So when did Heaven start acting like this?
About 11 or 12.
And how do you find out about these fights?
Well, the kids around the neighborhood, between them and my son, they come showing me videos of her fighting, you know, You sent my producers a video that you had of her fighting in the school.
Can we show that right now?
Oh!
I can only imagine what you feel like as her mother seeing that. Are you scared for your daughter's safety?
I am.
Yeah.
Like, you know, like I'm questioning my parenting. Like, I can't keep going back and forth with you because of your attitude. It's like either you gonna listen and you gonna do right or they got a place for you.
Yeah.
Juvenile.
Yeah. Was she kicked outta school?
Yes, she was.
Why do you think she acts out like this? Attention.
Attention. Attention from her friends.
I think it's time that we meet Heaven and get her point of view on all of this. So everyone, please welcome Heaven to the show.
Hey.
Hi, Heaven. How are you doing?
Nice to meet you.
Let me give you a hug. Nice to meet you. Take a seat for me. You look very nice.
Thank you.
How old are you?
I'm 13.
13 years old.
Okay.
So I gotta ask you point blank, why you fighting?
'Cause niggas wanna talk shit. You know, they wanna talk shit about me and they wanna talk about my friends or they wanna talk about my family and that's very offensive and I feel some type of way and I'm gonna say something or I'm gonna do something.
Mm-hmm.
How many fights have you been in?
Over 15.
Over 15? Why you smiling with that?
I feel like I'm grown. Like I get, I can act how I wanna act.
You not grown. Yes, I am. I need you to stop saying that.
I'm grown.
You not grown. You not grown. I am grown.
I am grown. I just know. What are you talking about?
I wanna know from you, how does it feel that knowing that when you fight, you're hurting someone?
I don't care. So what?
Have you ever thought about maybe if you got into a fight with the wrong person, they could have a weapon and end your life?
No. When I did care, nobody wanted to care. So therefore now I don't care.
Got it. Why do you think no one cared when you cared?
Because I just feel like I was very vulnerable. So it was easy to like step over me or, you know, You know, walk all over me, you know?
But I can understand the friends outside.
Right.
If you feel that's your— if that's what you think is like, okay, y'all treating me bad, but your mother and your family is here for you. They love you. So why are you disrespectful at home?
'Cause I just feel like I can take it out on anybody.
No, you can't. That's not okay. And you know that. That's not how I raised you. You know right from wrong. You a kid at the end of the day. That's what it is. That's what everybody's sitting there looking at. They trying to figure out what is you doing being 13 years old wanting to do what you wanna do when you cannot do that? I told you. I tell you time and time again, do I not? Why do you wanna put yourself in that situation when you already know what it is? Because I told you what I've been through when I was your age.
I'm really trying to understand what has been going on in your life. Because it sounds like you were not fighting and not doing stuff and then all of a sudden things switched.
So there is actually something.
Okay.
I get like looks from other races and stuff.
Okay.
Like differently.
Like what do you mean?
And girls like will make fun of me and stuff and they will call me the N-word and say like I looked ugly and like, and I did not feel comfortable in my own skin.
So you were getting called the N-word and being told you were ugly?
Right.
Prior to that, in 3rd grade, I got bullied my whole school year and them girls was telling me to die. They was telling me to kill myself and I ain't even know stuff about that yet. I'm looking up online how to kill myself 'cause I'm ready to go.
Mom, what do you wanna say about all this?
I didn't know that you was going through this, and that's the reason why it caused you to start acting out. I'm sorry that you had to experience that, Mama. And I know why you didn't tell me, but I wish that you would've, 'cause you should never have to experience nothing like that.
I know.
and like that. But now that I know, I got you.
My God, it's hard. It is so hard waking up in the morning, looking in the mirror and being disappointed. I feel like I just don't meet up to certain people's expectations and I wish, I really wish I could. I just refuse to be looked at as different anymore because people say different is good. I don't think different is good.
And I was just— I promise you right now, you can ask everybody that's sitting here looking at you, I promise you they will tell you you are beautiful. They not clapping 'cause you ugly.
That's hard. That is hard. That is hard.
That is hard.
That's hard.
When I look at you and I saw this, I knew that you weren't fighting for just fighting sakes. You're fighting to protect yourself. Now you're telling me that at some point people were telling you that you were ugly, calling you a derogatory racial term, telling you that you're not enough. All of that starts to come together and then all of a sudden you hit 13, puberty hits and you upset. And you wanna protect yourself and be grown because you feel like grown people know how to protect themselves. Grown people can do what they want. Grown people don't have to deal with this.
And they can do it on their own. I feel like, like I'm very like stubborn. Like I could do it on my own.
Yeah.
And like if anybody gets in my way, it is a problem.
Yeah. This is more right now than you're gonna be able to handle on your own.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna give you therapy. Would you be willing to go? With your mom? Okay. I'm gonna give you that because I think this is, Having this and having someone be able to talk to y'all and give y'all the tools to say, all right, now that we know this, this is what we do, is gonna be the first step. It's time to take those bricks down one by one and remove that wall and remind yourself as a 13-year-old woman, you have somebody here who's gonna model for you the strength, the beauty. You said you don't connect with your mom anymore, and I hear you. I understand what it's like to be young. I understand what it's like to be in school, wanna look good, wanna look fresh. I had kids myself. You know, I like to look good. So I'm gonna also send y'all on a little mother-daughter shopping date on me. So we can go shopping. You wanna go shopping?
Sweet.
You wanna go shopping?
Yeah.
I know it's not gonna fix the problem and that's not what we're trying to do there, but it's nice to have something that you can feel good as you're doing that.
Give me a hug, girl.
Yeah.
I love it.
I really do love you both.
Come here.
Give me some love.
Thank you, love. Thank you, sweetie.
Come here, you sweet baby. Y'all gonna be all right. Y'all gonna be all right.
