Freedom Money Ep3

Welcome to Freedom Money, where we explore Bitcoin, financial freedom, and building in the Bitcoin space. Before we get started, this podcast is for educational and information purposes only. Nothing discussed here constitutes financial advice or any professional advice. Inaki, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to me to be here.

It's a real pleasure. I know we connected earlier this week and, uh, You have a very innovative product, so I'm really excited to talk about it. But before we get into that, can you give me a bit of your background that leads you here?

I was a CMO, CMO in different companies. So in 2017, I tried to investigate about blockchain. So it was very impressive sector for me. So I started to get deeper in this sector. And then I started to creating a, a YouTube channel where I help people to understand this world. So since that moment, I, I started to create all of the, the things that I have, like Yoseyomo, Inheritance, etc.

When was that that you started down that road?

In 2017.

Got it. So you've been, you've been around the space for some time. And so now I just want to get into YosiYomo and your company's mission.

Now, YosiYomo is, is just a piece of metal that helps people to, to preserve the seed phrases and make it indestructible. For example, people usually use this kind of support papers or, or maybe in digital supporting, and it's very dangerous because you can get fired, it can get fired, it can be broke, lost, etc. So for that reason we created this product, because in my YouTube channel every week people ask me, Iñaki, how can I recover my, my wallet because I lost my seed phrase? And my only question is, or answer was, you have to find that seed phrase. For that reason it's very important to have a good custody of your, of your digital assets. So for that reason, we create this tool for give to the people, uh, a very helpful instrument in order to make autocustody and these kind of things.

So not that I have any Bitcoin, but if I did, wouldn't it just be in my sock drawer written on a piece of paper like everybody else? I see the risks. There were the California wildfires, and that kind of became a top of mind, I live on the ocean and I could buy a barbecue and it would rust out in about a year. And so I'm curious of the technology and how this device is indestructible and how it's better.

It's very simple because in our opinion, the material is very important because for example, this Yoseyomo, Yoseyomo means your seed, your money. It's like a kind of, uh, remember Satoshi Nakamoto? It's a very Japanese style, yo se yo mo, no? If you think about that thing. So our material is titanium 5 grade, is the maximum grade that you have, is the same titanium that the airplanes have. So the vast majority of the products like this, they use a very cheap titanium or very cheap inox.— and the problem of that is it get melt. For example, there are a cyberpunk, is called Jason Loop, who's from— during 5 years he was trying to put and testing this kind of things with fire, with acid, with water, automatic press, hydraulic press, and a lot of our other products get very lost and damaged. For that actions on the, on the product. For that reason, we created a product with very, very high quality material because it's very important to have that kind of material in case of a fire in, in your home. For example, one fire in your home is around 600 and 1,000 degrees, and Yoseyomo titanium one supports around 1,700 degrees. So it's indestructible for that reason, and also it's very small, and it's very interesting for hide it, hide the piece of metal wherever you want. And also it doesn't— is detected in the airports. So you get a sovereign tool, very important for your autocustody.

You would have to run it through the metal, you'd have to take it out of your pockets, no, to go and Exactly.

If you want to see the, the, the size, if you have a credit card, it's like this, and like this.

It's in your wallet. How, how— and I'm sorry I'm so basic on all, all this stuff— but how do you actually put the words onto the device and do it in such a way— what, do I have to go into the forest and make sure nobody sees me doing this?

Can I share the screen for making it easier? Yeah, it's easier if I, I I make it like this, and then you have to put it there. Exactly.

Yes, look at that.

This is the, the step that you have to do. For example, I'm going to make it, make it a little bigger. The coin has 24 lines of points, and each line represents one word in the BIP-39 list. Every wallet in the market, every wallet in the world is created with that, with those 2048 words. For example, all of this, as you can see.

I love this. This is good for anybody. This is so important for Bitcoiners to understand. These 12 words are your password, they're your everything, right?

Exactly. This is the most important thing because if you lost your wallet and you have several wallets in the market. We are a complement, we are the substitute of the paper. But if you have cold wallets like this, or MetaMask is a hot wallet, etc., all of these wallets grab the seed phrases from this list and give you the exactly seed phrase in order to, to access to your, your, your funds. So for example, each word is in that list. But if you order alphabetically, alphabetically, you have a number. A number is a position in that list. For example, again, is the number 38. So in the coin you have 12 holes that you need to mark with this punch. This punch, you don't need a hammer, you can do it like this. Sorry, or like this, and you make that holes in the, in the coin. So for example, if your first word is— again, is the number 38, but here from 32 pass to the 64, it's not the that number. But if you sum the numbers among them, you can create any word, any word of that list. For example, Again, is 32 plus 4 plus 2 is the 38. If you sum these points, the sum of those values are 38. So the unique thing that you have to do is with the punch, punch in the 32 number, in the 4, and in the 2. And when you sum everything, you know that the first word in your seed phrase is a game, and you have to continue with all the other numbers. You can use a 12 seed phrase or a 15 or 18 or 24. And after that, you only have to do is put a tampering system like this, and you put the, the, the, the, the sticker on the, uh, Yoshiyomo And that way you can hide the, the, the marks that you did in the, in the, in the, in the coin. So in that way, it's very interesting for hide for people who can see your, your seed phrase. But also you have to protect with the passphrase. It's the second level or the second step that you can add extra layer of security physically.

Where do I put it? What's your recommendation? In my garden? My dog house?

My recommendation is hide wherever you are sure that anybody can find it. For example, you can put in the middle of the, of the wardrobe, or maybe in the air conditioner. You can put insert of the, of that point, or maybe inside of a book, or maybe in a safe box. Or maybe below of the house dock, for example, in your garden. You can save it wherever you want because, for example, you can keep it safe in your swimming pool because it resists the water as well. So you can put it wherever you want, but it has to be very, very high, very well height. So this is my recommendation, and also add The extra layer is passphrase, is the 25 words that you can insert a passphrase. And in that way, you can have here, uh, empty wallet, and with the passphrase, you open a second wallet with all your funds inside of that. So if somebody hide or find this, this coin, nothing happens because they put the seed phrase in a MetaMask, for example,, and the balance will be zero because all your funds is keep safe in another secret wallet created with the passphrase, the 24 words of the seed phrase plus the passphrase. It's something very interesting that nobody, or a lot of— not a lot of people knows about the— that resource from the blockchain and cryptography.

It's great that we do this podcast. For Cadena Bitcoin, our users, it's straight 12-word seed phrase. And you can't stress it enough, right? It's horrifying to think that somebody could possibly lose their 12-word seed phrase using our service, but that is the responsibility that you need to take on if you're going to be transacting in Bitcoin. And so it, uh, it's a bit different than the old world. And you can maybe see why some people have these traditional relationships with banks where they're outsourcing their sovereignty and custody of any assets they own. So it's really interesting. And it's, I guess, the people who are using your product, they're really self-selecting themselves as people who have interest in security.

Because usually people, when going to the crypto, they use an exchange like a first step. So all the money that you have in an exchange is not your money. You only have permission to use it. That is not your own. You only have a accountability point. It's a— Iñaki has one Bitcoin here, but it's not yours because the seed phrase is key for the exchange. For that reason, when people go into the exchange and start to understand what is blockchain and Bitcoin, they need to go to autocustody, and they usually start with MetaMask or another kind of wallet that supports Bitcoin. And also the seed phrase in a piece of paper. For example, a customer of mine lost €44 million, precisely for lost the seed phrase with the wallet in the same box, and that box was lost. And he only have the, the, the, the application of Ledger with the €44 million that he can do anything with that because he doesn't have the seed phrase or the wallet in order to sign the transactions. So imagine that situation is super critical.

I'm sorry to laugh. I'm not imagining that. Like, we spoke about this yesterday and this is just horrifying, right? This is a problem that needs to be solved in Bitcoin, in my opinion. It's absolutely like my parents who are 80 years old, they're not going to be adopting to a technology where there's some possibility that if they forget their 24 words or lose it, especially as you get later in life, people have dementia, old things, husband's watching the money and dies. There's a few challenges from a usability perspective that I think Bitcoin needs to address still.

Do you remember the Spider-Man movie?

Which movie?

Spider-Man.

Yeah, yeah, I watched a bunch.

A big power has a big responsibility. This is approximately the same. You have a big power, is the sovereignty in your hands, but it means you have a big responsibility. The bank is not behind of you supporting, oh, Iñaki, you lost money, no problem, we can get this, the insurance, and you recover that money. No, in the Web3 world, you are alone and you have to be very adult in that aspect.

In this world, I don't know, I feel it where I am physically in terms of being in Costa Rica along a deserted beach. At a certain point in your life, you to realize that nobody's coming to save you. You're on your own. You need to take responsibility for certain things. I wanted to get into what you're building now and why, and really excited for you to kind of demonstrate the next step of this. 'Cause obviously now we've talked about the physical security, backing up. We've talked about seed phrases in, as additional security. One thing I've always thought about and worried about as a single father who's looking to give my, all my assets to my kids. When I moved to Costa Rica, I was using Duolingo every day and I thought, well, geez, if I drowned surfing, it'd be nice if I didn't play Duolingo for 3 months that they, my Bitcoin be distributed. And so I'm interested to see the next level, next iteration and what you're working on.

That's very important questions because when you have your assets in your, in your hand and you have the sovereignty over them, over them, the next question that you have to do is what's happened with my crypto if I die? It's a reality because nothing happens until it happens.

So I'll say this, I got to give you the story. There was a guy who lived on the same beach as me in 2022 and he was OG, and he died, died drowned. He drowned. And the coins— well, I'll send you the story after, you'll enjoy it.

Well, so in that case, for example, no, you are going to make surf and suddenly something happens that morning. You don't know anything about that, that, uh, the situation, but that situation will, will go to— will get—

sorry.

And, and for that reason, we created inheritance. And inheritance is the next level of your, of your autocastery, is what's happened with your next generations, what's happened with, with all of that wealth, or, or what that I have that I build during my life. And if I die, sometimes people don't know about where is your crypto because you have a lot of things, a lot of wallet, a lot of protocols, a lot of stake in things or whatever. You have a lot of things. So for that reason, we created— let me show you again the, my screen because it's easier to, to see everything. There you go, it's already shared.

Do I have to add?

Is that if, if one day you are gone, will your family know what to do? That's the key questions that everybody have to think about that.

No chance my family knows what to do.

Exactly. In, in the Bitcoin world, you have some tools like Nunchuk, like Casa, Liana. You have several tools about inheritance, but the problem of that platforms is first very technical, maybe for you not, but for your family yes. And also It's like Bitcoin from the wallet A, if I die, go to the, to the wallet B, and that's it. You don't have a help in order to recover it. You don't have any kind of message like emotional one or other digital assets or patrimonial assets. You don't have anything else than crypto from A to B. That's it. It's a good solution. Yes, could be. I like Casa, for example, but this for me, for me, complete. For that reason, we created inheritance. Inheritance is a very powerful, uh, because it's a software as a service, is in on the cloud, and can create everything with finance, with pets, your family, your startups, your investment goal. Wherever you want. So it's very complete because you can create a message, for example, message to my brother Javier, and you can send a message to your whole family in general with a message with some attachment even. But you also can create a specific message to your brother Javier, for example, saying a concrete thing with information that you want that Javier has and nobody has. So for that reason, you can create that message. Javi, I need to send you a more personal message that you and I both know that many times you can— whatever you want to say. And after that, you can put, uh, brother here, your email and your contact, and you can create assets, for example, like finance, access to the devices legal, emotion, knowledge about your projects, about your startup, about your— wherever you want. For example, finance. You can create cryptocurrencies and you can have a very, um, form where you put, for example, okay, means you don't have to put here your seed phrase. You have to put here where is your Yoseyomo without say the address. You only have to say, okay, Yosoyomo is behind of the book that you and me know, for example, or in my uncle's home, in the wardrobe, in the bathroom, whatever, I don't know, uh, that information you're here and yourself know where is this. And also you can say, okay, the passphrase is this one, in order that put the 24 words in the Yosoyomo and the passphrase in inheritance. So we created a sovereign system, very important for the next generations. And also you can put here the address, you can put here even a PDF, video, or whatever you want. So this is the next step that you need to do because we will help your heirs to find the seed phrase. Okay, they receive a course that they can use Yoshiyomo and how they can pass from crypto to, to dollar or whatever they—

Going the wrong way.

Exactly. Or those kind of things. So maybe you can say, okay, gold bar is inside of this place. You can do it and nobody knows that information except you and the hearer that you want. And the hearer can be one friend, one girlfriend, one in your family or whatever.

Just a couple questions about this. Is a monthly service fee, I'm assuming?

It's an annual.

And then I guess like, anyway, I'm thinking about my own situation and you're like, oh, but, uh, I don't know if we wanna make this personal, but I have a will. I probably did 15 years ago, right? On a piece of paper hidden in a suitcase in the room over there. And it would change. Maybe it would be updated. I'm not living in the country. I'm not sure the laws apply anymore. My assets are much different than they were then. Seems like this is kind of better tool because it can be real time and I don't have to pay a lawyer every time I update this.

Exactly.

Do you have people outside of crypto who have interest in this? And like, I see this as having all kinds of other applications.

Yeah, sure. Because we are living in the 21st century, so the wills are created for the past when you have only a car, maybe you have a house or maybe another house in your country file. But right now we have a lot of assets. You have a bank account, uh, in your country, bank account outside. You have gold, you have a Rolex collection, you have crypto, you have a lot of assets, social networks, Amazon subscription to Netflix, to your HBO or whatever. So you have a lot of information, a lot of assets because digital life is like that. So the will is, is, is not a good tool for that because you have to update it every time. And also you can say exactly that you want to say. For example, okay, going is in this point because everything is public. When, for example, in Spain, when you open the will, all your heirs can see everything that you put in that document. In this way, you can attach this list of things that you have to the will and elevate to the government, and you make it 10% legal. And also, if you are a nomad and you are traveling or living in different points of the world, you can send a message to everybody, and doesn't matter where they are or you are. So because they can go to that place that you say and get the information or get the object or get whatever you need. Um, I think it's very important nowadays for that reason because will is all past and this is like a, a layer that you can put on top of that without any legal contract or something like that. It's very freedom, it's sovereignty. You can decide, okay, I need to put it in my will, or you can decide do anything about that. We created this thing, is unique in the market. You can activate the capsule only with this titanium capsule, scanning a QR code. This is a prototype, uh, a QR code that it allows to activate the capsule because we ask you for your identification card and also the function letter document that say, okay, this guy has passed it. I am— for that reason, this is very interesting thing because you don't depend of the Wills or the email, the live verification by email that we have. Also, you have a third way to activate the capsule. So I think it's— imagine when you go to the city and say, okay, how you order a taxi, a cab? I don't know, doing this. Why? Because always you do like that way. Okay, put a digital layer with the app and make the sector totally different. We want to do the same with the will and the notary and this kind of old-fashioned style of keeping information, uh, generations. So this is our vision and our thesis. About this.

That's amazing. And I want you to do that and support any way that we can. Do you, um, do you have any advice? I built an incredible amount of stuff here in the space in a pretty short period of time, and it's really incredible. Do you have any advice for builders who want to follow in your footsteps and build things in the Bitcoin space?

Yeah. My first advice is action, because sometimes we have a lot of good ideas, but the problem is, okay, need to think about that, I need to be sure, I need to prepare everything, but the time flies. So you need to take action. For example, of this company was created through Discord. Current partner was living kilometers away from me. Um, didn't know, or didn't know before we started this project. So in a 2-minute conversation, very Silicon Valley history, we started to create this company. And in only 8 months, working only in Discord, not video calls or something like that, we created a product like Lean Startup method. We created a waitlist. We won 100, uh, 1,100 people waiting for what I think we in the past. In that moment, we start working. So if you have idea, you have to make it reality. This is the first advice that I have to— and also communicate, communicate, because people need to know that what are you doing right now.

I think that's extremely good advice. Um, all right, I'm gonna wrap it up here, but do you want to— like, what can I send people?

Yomo, it means your seed, your money. If you don't have your keys, you don't have your money. It's like a— I don't know in English— it's like a blink of your eye when you say that kind of phrase of Andrea Antonopoulos that say if you don't have your keys, you don't have your money. Here is your seed, your money. Your language is like acronym, is your seed Okay, keep your money.

Oh, it took me a while. Oh my goodness, I'm not a language— I'm more of a numbers guy. Forgive me.

And also we said, let me show— I— okay, Essence made in Spain. It means the Japanese style of making the things very good, very everything with that kind of method. With a country very innovate creative and this kind of thing. So we wanted to melt those, uh, in a whole concept. And for that reason we say 'Yosei Yomo,' no? It's like Satoshi Nakamoto, like this word, Japanese word that protect the samurai that have the sword. Is this the same? This coin protect to the holder, the crypto. For this is marketing thing that I really like it.

I thought this through. I've thought through the product, you've thought through the inheritance. Like, off to you for building this. This is really important. It's security. And if you can honestly save one guy from losing €44 million, again, you know, well worth it. So I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you to share your story and product. It's really incredible.

Thank you very much.

We will reconnect very soon.

Yeah, for sure. Whenever you want, I will be available for you and your audience.

Thank you.