30 Aug 2026 · 26 min
In this solo podcast episode, Kirsten Roldan expands on her earlier "Finish Your Funnel" training by tracing the evolution of sales funnel strategy—from the classic top‑to‑bottom funnel, through HubSpot’s flywheel model, to her own Thought Leadership Funnel. She argues that most entrepreneurs over‑emphasize tangibles (copy, design, tech) and neglect the intangible core that anchors a funnel: the founder’s unique thought leadership. Using a Venn‑diagram metaphor, she shows how the balance of tangibles, intangibles, and thought leadership determines funnel health. Roldan introduces the low‑lift, high‑return Thought Leadership Funnel approach, which relies on inexpensive channels like email, texting, and podcasting, and she illustrates it with a case study of a client who leveraged a waitlist‑presale strategy to generate a five‑figure evergreen launch. The episode then outlines her proprietary Funnel Flow Success Map, a five‑step, automated launch‑to‑evergreen system (low‑lift marketing, waitlist presale, launch deliverables, flip to automation, optimization) that underpins her "Finesse Your Funnel" program. Throughout, she emphasizes simplicity, the power of unique ideas, and the need for entrepreneurs to define and consistently share their thought leadership to drive sustainable, burnout‑free growth.
Welcome to the Business Without Burnout podcast. I'm Kirsten Roldan, and I help entrepreneurs make a lot of money peacefully. I'm a New Yorican who went from working in healthcare while cleaning houses and braiding hair on the side to building a business that's generated over $4 million and counting. But there was a time I almost shut my business down because I had a lot of money but no peace. I managed to turn it around, and that's why every week I share the 4 strategies that help you grow without burnout: email marketing, team systems, and mindset. So let's dive in.
Welcome back to the podcast. We're doing it again, baby. Last episode, I gave you a full training on Finish Your Funnel, my archived sales funnel program, where we covered what a sales funnel actually is, the 3 styles of funnels, and the myths that have people building things that don't work or that they don't even finish. If you haven't heard that one, go back and listen first. This episode builds directly on it. The same rules apply today. Finish Your Funnel is not open. You cannot buy it. There's no waitlist. All right, so don't ask. This is the second training I'm handing you for free, so enjoy it. And I'll be honest, this one is one of my favorites because the last episode was about mechanics, but this one is the thing underneath the mechanics that actually decides whether your funnel works. And it's what I implemented with my top agency clients. So here's what you're getting. We're going to start with the evolution of funnel strategy because you can't understand where we are without understanding what came before. We'll go through the original funnel model, the one everybody still pictures and sees, and I'm going to show you the flaws in it. But then I add my own layer to it. I'll walk you through a Venn diagram of the tangibles and the intangibles of a funnel and the thing that sits in the center of both and anchors the entire thing, which is— I'm just going to tell you now— your thought leadership. I'll show you what happens when that shrinks, which it does for almost everybody because copy and design and tech feels more important to people for some reason than the actual ideas that they have. When that is what sells in your funnel, that is what converts a client. Then I break down the thought leadership funnel approach itself and the lowest cost, highest return way to build it along with case studies. And 2 quick notes before we start. First, this was originally a video training with visuals on the screen. I do describe them all out loud, so listening is fine. Second, you're going to hear me reference the year 2021 because that's when I recorded this. I could have cut that. I didn't because I want you to hear how much more true it's all gotten. I talk in this training about being inundated with the same content, the same offers, the same price points, and how hard it is to tell anybody apart. That was before AI could generate 1,000 identical launch emails in an afternoon. The problem I'm describing here did not age. In fact, it got worse. And the solution I give you is the same solution But it's worth even more now. One last thing: this training is a direct ancestor, if you will, of everything I teach today. Million Dollar Email, all of it came out of what you're about to hear. So this is a little bit of an origin story too. All right, let's get into it. Enjoy.
All right, I wanted to make sure I included the evolution of sales funnel strategy inside this program because it's so important to. Understand the different approaches that have been used, what has worked, what doesn't, and where we are going now as an industry of entrepreneurs. So with that, the evolution of funnel strategy. So originally sales funnel, right, was defined as a funnel, okay, like a funnel that you put your oil in and, you know, it pours out into a bowl, right? And the way it was described was that the funnel was leading people from capture to conversion, from awareness to action, from top to bottom. And that was the idea, right? And so classic marketing, you know, strategy was all about that— the sales funnel, the process of capturing conversion from awareness, interest, desire to action. The problem with this strategy was the idea that When you're thinking of a sales funnel, you think of getting the leads and then converting the leads, right? And the nurturing that happens in between. But the problem with this approach and looking at a funnel this way, there's a few things. For one thing, it implies that you get leads right at the top of your funnel, and then once they convert, that energy is lost. The leads die. They're done. Because you can't pour water or oil or whatever from a bowl back into the funnel. You would have to physically add that liquid into the funnel. So it implies that essentially you have to constantly fill the top of the funnel in order to keep your business running. How exhausting is that? Right? But also, it leaves really little room for the customer experience and the customer enjoyment. General, and making sure that instead of like new leads that then just convert, right? Instead of that energy driving the funnel, we wanna make sure the customer is. So with that being said, then HubSpot came on the scene and was like the flywheel approach, right? They were like, you have to look at your sales funnel as a flywheel. Right, so like think of the Wheel of Fortune wheel that you pull, you add force to it, and it keeps going, and the little friction points on the wheel are like the little stoppers, right? And so HubSpot was like, you have the flywheel, right, and the customer is at the center of the flywheel, and the entire approach is about attraction and delight. Basically what they're saying is that a flywheel is driven by force and friction can essentially stop or slow down the wheel. And there are different friction points that can be had inside your funnel that are stopping or slowing the wheel. But their methodology is around attraction and delight. And they basically say, and it's so true, right, when you think about it, that the customer drives the funnel. And if you can continue to attract the right customers and delight those customers, you can keep your funnel going without having to fill the top of it with new leads. So true, right? And that's where you get into like customer retention and loyalty and lifetime value and all of those things. And when I learned of that approach, I was so excited because this right here just shows that you don't need a big email list, a big audience, or anything like that to have a thriving really successful business and make a lot of money. While these approaches are super beneficial and make sense in their own ways, I wanted to add to that approach, right? I wanted to add to the flywheel and say that there are— so if you're listening to this and not looking at it, I have a Venn diagram. There is the tangible side, the intangible side, and then at the middle of the 2 circles meets, right? This, this area. And it's the thought leadership. And I'm going to talk about that. I believe a funnel is driven by the tangibles, right? The intangibles. But it is centered, anchored, and balanced by thought leadership. Oh, it's about to get Thick, I'm so excited. Okay, let me explain. So the truth about funnels is we have a goal and then we have a reality. So the goal is to have a balanced strategy for a manageable and consistent pipeline of leads and sales, right? We want the Venn diagram to be balanced, but the reality is we often get misplaced in our focus, and that misplaced focus results in launch and funnel confusion. So if you're picturing these 2 circles and they're originally even and balanced, picture focusing too much on the sales copy and the design and the tech and less on the, the messaging, right? The marketing and the thought leadership. It is pulling away, right? It's pulling away. So the tangible circle is getting bigger. The intangible is getting smaller. But even worse than that, the thought leadership is getting smaller, and that is supposed to anchor and balance your funnel and truly be the center of it. And so when that portion of the Venn diagram is super small, you are compromising quality leads and sales. Okay, so here's what I mean. All right, there are a lot of unique challenges of funnels in the current industry. So for example, like, we are inundated. We are absolutely inundated with, you know, you know, all the same content, all the same, uh, offers, the same price points, everything. It's really hard to figure out what makes someone different, which is why a lot of times people will end up currently buying based on connection, so the know and like, and less about the trust, or they'll put such a heavy focus on the trust that whether they know or like you or not, they are focusing on like building massive trust in you because they've been burned before, right? And what I find is that people get so caught up in the tangibles of the funnel, the copy, the design, the tech, oh, how do I convert them from the sales page, right? Instead of also focusing on the intangibles, like your messaging, your clients' biases, their goals, et cetera, and the thing is, the buyer is sophisticated, more sophisticated than ever, especially in the coaching industry, the service-based industry, 100% more sophisticated than ever before, so with that being said, I have worked on so many styles of funnels over so many offers in so many niches and so many price points, and the highest converting funnels were the ones that allowed the founder to share share their unique thought leadership freely, casually, and consistently. And the best funnels were actually using the lowest cost, highest return marketing tools. This is based on client research and data. As an example, email marketing, texting, and podcasting is what I mean by lowest cost, highest return marketing tools. But it was so important that thought leadership was there. And we're going to dive deeper into this. The thought leadership funnel approach is a low-lift, high-return strategy for those that want to share their signature offer and generate sales off social media so they can grow their audience, programs, and income with less work. Basically, the goal is to cut out countless hours and expenses involved in building and executing super intense launches and funnels when really your concepts, your unique thought leadership is where the money is. And our key methodology, the Thought Leadership Funnel approach, is simple and underrated, to be honest. Your ideas are what anchor and balance and drive your funnel forward. If you picture your funnel as a flywheel, your ideas are the gas that add the force to your wheel. You need to be able to share your ideas freely, casually, and consistently. And this is where it's so important Your funnel can't outwork client experience and results. That's why when we pull your unique thought leadership out in the next section, it's going to be based on what concept you have in your wheelhouse that delivers the best client results, right? So just as an example, I think of a specific client who launched a launch program. And the launch program was focused on waitlist-style launches only. And at that time when she launched that program, nobody was really implementing a waitlist the way that she was, but also nobody was teaching waitlists as a primary launch strategy that can be the most profitable and least exhaustive. So her entire angle, her thought leadership was, You don't need a free challenge. You need a waitlist and a profitable pitch after the waitlist, basically after the opt-in, and that's it. And it blew people's minds, and it got incredible results, incredible results. And as a result, now her funnel is evergreen. Within 2 days of launching her evergreen sales funnel, meaning we want her to actually make sales on autopilot, not just generate leads. Within 2 days of launching, she made a mid-ticket sale because her funnel stood out very easily, right? Because it's such a specific thing, and it's not just about having a niche offer, it's about having a unique concept and the results to back it up, okay? That is what drives your funnel forward right now, especially in 2021 with our sophisticated buyers, that is what drives your funnel forward is innovation, client experience, and results. The thought leadership funnel is literally designed to help you stop doing the most and let your thought leadership do the work for you. Basically, we want you to be able to convey your offer's value so simply and so easily that you don't need a super intense anything, your thought leadership will sell the program or offer. And just like anything, this approach is layered in tangibles and intangibles. All right. So the thought— there's the thought leadership side of things, right? Pulling your thought leadership, your unique concept, your lifetime launch angle, pulling the intangibles, which is designing your launch strategy, developing your email marketing strategy. That's like the strategic side of things. And the messaging, etc. And then there's the tangibles— building your welcome funnel, building your launch, building the evergreen funnel. And this is the approach that this entire program centers around. We want you to build a list of quality leads that are generated on autopilot and sold to consistently, to build a strategic launch event that has the opportunity to produce a 6 to 12 month pipeline and to automate the entire thing. All of this is designed around and anchored by your thought leadership. This is really key. This is our thought leadership in action, and I'm going to give examples of our own program so that you can really understand this concept and what I mean. But This isn't just like build a funnel program, like grow your email list and learn how to write emails and learn how to set up an automation. This entire program is going to help you develop your lifetime launch angle, the angle that you will always take to hit your market bullseye, right? This is what this program is designed around. Our thought leadership is the thought leadership funnel approach, right? And so we believe that if you want to be able to build a really profitable funnel, all it takes is building a list of quality leads, building a strategic launch event, and then flipping it. We believe in the power of simplicity, and that's what sets us apart, and we'll talk more about that later. Let's dive into it. Let's see the thought leadership funnel in action. So Finesse Your Funnel, right, as a program, there's the structure. So it's a self-paced program with a Q&A community and feedback support. So there is a live component to it. The concept is an automated 5-figure launch that flips into a funnel. An automated 5-figure launch, meaning primarily using email marketing as the sales strategy, not posting a bunch of Instagram stories, not posting a million feed posts, heavy lift forward-facing marketing, automated selling via email, 5-figure launch is our goal, and then flip it into a funnel. Don't just build a funnel, then flip it into a funnel. So our positioning is that this entire program was created by an expert funnel builder, that's me, and it's all about small list success, right? Like small audiences are fine, come as you are, Simple and implementable. Okay, the gaps that we're filling in the market, right, is that we are structuring for the clients to implement and see results. We are structuring this program not just for you to learn funnel strategy, not just for you to implement it, but to do both— to learn it, implement it, and make money from it. And the bridges that we're creating for our clients are helping our clients strategize and implement through live coaching support. So with that, our thought leadership is the Funnel Flow Success Map. That is Finesse Your Funnels thought leadership approach. Okay? You're going to have your own thought leadership approach, but Finesse Your Funnels is the Funnel Flow Success Map, that 5-step map that we've already introduced to you about how we help people to design a 5-figure automated launch event that then flips into a power funnel. Okay, that is our thought leadership. And what's important to note is that I'm a product of my product, and you should be too, right? So as an example, low lift, high return marketing, not like the gurus, right? So my launch strategy, step 1, is low lift, high return marketing, not like the gurus. My step 2, which is where I start building and nurturing the email list in preparation for my live event, is my signature waitlist presale strategy, which is a very simple automation, okay, and content strategy. My step 3, which is decide and build the launch deliverables, is that while I'm preselling and making money, I'm preparing my live event funnel, My step 4, which is where I launch and flip my funnel, is where I will flip my live event into an automation where I sell it for replay. And then my step 5, where I finesse my funnel and optimize it, is where I will optimize it, run ads to it, and start scaling it, right? I am a product of my product, see? And you will be as well. You are going to be able to pull out your unique concept in the upcoming modules before you do anything else, because this will help you for literally the rest of your career when it comes to launching your career as an entrepreneur. This is what you need first. And once you have this, oh, then you'll fly through the tangibles and the, you know, and all of that stuff in the launching. But if you have this, this will help you tremendously. And with that being said, as I'm recording this, I'm actually on step 2 right now of a current launch of Finesse Your Funnel. I'm on step 2, where I'm on the waitlist presale strategy, I have not even done a live event and I'm at a 5-figure launch, product of my product, right? But here's the thing, I've barely done anything in terms of actual launching. It's my thought leadership, it's my approach and my concepts and my innovative ideas around building sales funnels and strategizing sales funnels that is selling this program for me. Okay, so with that, it's time for you to start step 1 of the Funnel Flow Success Map, defining your thought leadership approach and designing your best launch strategy yet. As always, we go through a lot in these sections, so before you move ahead, go to the community, ask any questions about this section, and if you learned something you loved, tag me on Instagram @kirstenroldan.
Welcome back. What did you think? Did you love it? Oh, I love that training. So last episode I told you to build a rabbit hole. This episode is what makes anybody want to even go down it. You can build the exact funnel I gave you last week, the one opt-in, one upsell, a delivery email with a surprise inside, an email sequence that pitches your offer, and it can technically be flawless and convert nothing. Same structure, same tools, same tech, wildly different results. And the variable is not the funnel, it's itself. It's whether there's an actual unique angle inside of it. Your funnel cannot outwork your unique thought leadership. It also can't outwork your client results. So here are your takeaways. One, notice which model you're running. If your business only works when you're constantly pouring new leads into the top, you didn't just build a funnel, you built a treadmill, my friend. And the fix isn't more lead generation, it's putting the customer at the center. So that the people already in your world help you keep things moving. Retention, lifetime value, referrals, right? This is how you can build a converting funnel even if you don't have a giant audience, which is so important because I feel like so much of funnel strategy is built around needing a large audience in order to actually make money. I still don't have a big audience and I've been able to make a lot of money with my funnels. 2, the tangibles will always feel more important than your thought leadership. That— don't do that, right? Rewriting a sales page, fixing your tech, all of it feels like progress, okay? But you need to sit with what you actually believe about your industry, okay? And what is different about you, what is unique about you, how you uniquely help your clients. That is more important. The tech is the easy part. Okay, the build is the easy part. So important. 3, a niche offer is not a unique concept. My waitlist client that I talked about didn't, didn't make the sales that she did because she taught launching. She won because she said you don't need a free challenge, you need a waitlist and a profitable pitch. That's an angle, and it's an angle that someone could disagree with, but that's what makes it sell. 4, innovation, client experience, and results are what drive a funnel now, not the funnel itself. Buyers are more sophisticated than they've ever been, and they can feel the difference, okay, between, you know, someone that is just selling, like repackaging, selling the same old thing. You need to be unique, but you also need to back up what you say. All right, very, very important. Be a product of your product. You saw in the training, I ran my own 5-step map on my own program while teaching it, and I was at a 5-figure launch before I'd even done the live event. Okay, you need to show case studies, be a product of your product, all the things, okay. And make sure you're using the lowest cost, highest return tools. Okay? Stop going for what's trendy. Go for what has worked for so many people for years. Now here's your homework. Finish this sentence. You don't need blank. You need blank. That's it. That's your thought leadership in its first draft. All right? What does everybody in your industry insist people need that you know they don't? And what do they actually need instead? Write it, sit with it, say it out loud, right? If it doesn't make you a little nervous, it's probably not a unique angle yet, all right? It's just a description or like just a basic sentence. Go at it again and think to yourself, if someone were to find me, would they be excited that they found me? Would they be intrigued that they found me? Would they want to go down this rabbit hole? Am I showing up like a thought leader? That's what makes people go through a funnel and buy right away. If you like this podcast episode, make sure you join my email list on my show notes so you don't miss what's coming next because it's going to be really good. All right, I'll see you all soon.
