Do You Have A Million Strategies But Not More Sales? Listen To This

Welcome to the Business Without Burnout podcast. I'm Kirsten Roldan and I help entrepreneurs make a lot of money peacefully. I'm an Eurekan who went from working in healthcare while cleaning houses and braiding hair on the side to building a business that's generated over $4 million and counting. But there was a time I almost shut my business down because I had a lot of money but no peace. I managed to turn it around and that's why every week I share the 4 strategies that help you grow without burnout: email marketing, team systems, and mindset. So let's dive in. Hello everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. Today I have my dear client Debbie on, and I am so excited for you all to hear her experience inside my scaling program because we are opening for the last time ever. And Debbie is someone that joined the program and has hit her best year in business, and she still has time left to go. So we still have work to do, but I want you all to hear where she was. I think It will be very relatable for you. So without further ado, Debbie, please introduce yourself to those who don't know you.

Oh, hi, everybody. I'm Debbie Edwards. I am from the UK, and I'm a growth mindset coach. I work with the very unusual modalities of neuroscience and deep self-love, and I work with CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs who really want to scale their businesses, but not from self-sacrifice and from finding a way that really lights them up. So it's been a bit of a journey to get to being able to say that quite succinctly. But yeah, I'm having a great time in Kirsten's group program. And as she said, there's still a lot of time left. That's how I feel about it, actually.

I was going to say, the way you just said that so clearly and so— it sounds so good. I love how you said deep self-love. I'm like, oh, you've— I'm already like, If only y'all knew, she's come a long way. So tell us, where were you when you started the programme in your business?

I definitely had a couple of years of doing the figuring it out bit, you know, trying a lot, feeling like it was still a little bit in the middle, you know, the messy middle for me. And I was looking for— I think I was looking for structure. I am a bit of a structure girl. I like a few boundaries around me to give something form and shape. And I felt as though what I was doing was that very typical thing when you come into the coaching space and it's extremely noisy, even more noisy than ever right now. And you can kid yourself that by signing up for so many different fragmented things that somehow, because you're busy doing that, that you must be making progress, or at some point it will all pay off. And it didn't ever feel like it did. It felt like I'd reached a point where I was sort of halfway full with my one-on-one practice. And that felt nice. I had— I've always had gorgeous clients. I've always been really lucky that I've attracted really gorgeous dream clients. And they'd been with me for, you know, for about 2 years. Some of them have been with me for 3 years by that point. But I was ready to expand. But I was getting confused about where do I expand first? I was thinking it was group. Could it be membership? Did I need low ticket. I've got my own personal protocol and everyone was saying, well, why don't you just scale that? And I think it was just, it felt like a big mess, to be really honest. And my focus and my attention just didn't feel like it was right there. And as a girl who likes a little bit of structure, but also I like to be quite precise with my work, you know, I don't mind a bit of mess, but I'm not a kind of, I'm not really a big advocate for throwing spaghetti throwing spaghetti at the wall for years and just seeing what sticks. It's like, I'm a growth strategist, you know, I've got 30 years of experience. I don't need to do that. And so if I don't need to do that, I was looking around and thinking, where do I go to find the kind of structure that I want, you know? And then I found you.

Yeah. And what do you feel like was the hardest part during that time? Like, yes, things felt like a mess, but did it feel like your backend was a mess or was it The marketing felt all over the place. Like, what exactly was the big problem?

I think it was, it was a bit of focus and quite a lot of just not trusting myself enough to just stop and stand still and look at what was available to me and look at the options that I had and just go, no, go for that, go hard and just work on, you know, the second part for me was I still kept telling myself, if I get more one-on-one clients, I'm gonna burn out because that was a really old story because I'll be working harder, I'll have a full calendar, it will just be a bit of, you know, just won't be enjoyable. And so for me, it was firstly about that focus, you know, really just going, well, what if you take the bit that's working and just double that and see where that takes you? You know, it was like, oh, hallelujah, so simple. All right, well, and then everything, once everything else fell away and I wasn't distracted distracted by 10 different things. I could then just go, oh, all right then, what does a full practice actually look like? And now I don't have a fragmented attention, actually building more capacity feels available to me. And because I am just speaking to one person at a time, all of a sudden, you know, I think I just went for it. And more than that, I just decided, right, that's it for me for 12 months. That's it. And that started to impact my clients in a big way because I was just simply present for them. I was like, guys, I'm all in for 12 months with you. That is it. There's no distractions. There's no nothing. I'm just all in because I want to be in my mastery with you guys. And that was the thing that completely changed everything because all of a sudden, my clients were talking about me in rooms that I wasn't in, and I doubled my my practice, like, within 2 months.

Incredible. Incredible. And I want to hear, how do you think the program helped you with that? Like, how did it help you come to that decision? How did it give you the structure you were looking for?

I think that the, the biggest thing that happens when you come into your program that I don't think I've felt before is the emphasis on being disciplined. You know, it's like, it's not— we're not, we're not telling you, you have to do it this way. But what we're saying is, in our breadth of experience as a coaching team, we see that when you do this and you do it right, and then you build and you build, everything else builds around it, rather than, yeah, come in, try that, try this, do this, maybe that, and, and actually ending up with a very piecemeal progress rather than, no, come in and focus, be disciplined and see that as a strategy rather than, oh, it's the boring option. You know, it's because it's just, it's just not. But there's a lot of your work that resonates with my work, which is, guys, we just have to sometimes decide that it's the unsexy parts that move us the furthest, fastest.

I am laughing as you're talking because I love how you said like, yeah, that's the boring answer, right? Because everybody wants to, you know, I always say everybody wants it except they don't actually want it because like you said, you get piecemeal. Everybody wants the cheerleader. Everybody wants the person that's like, yeah, run with your ideas. Amazing. But you are, you also don't want that because then like you said, you end up with a piecemeal results, piecemeal progress. And you— the way you described it is perfect. It is true that we're like, listen, business is business, and business is simple. If you do these things, businesses grow. That's just how it works, right? And I think that we do come— and my teaching style is very much centered around building strong business knowledge. Like, this is just how business works, and business is very simple. If you do this, then businesses grow, right? And kind of simplifying it for you all. And you can do this. This is how any other business grows. Why wouldn't it work for you, right? And so I love that you said that— discipline. And like, yeah, taking the boring, quote unquote, the boring route, the unsexy route. How has taking the boring route actually been the best decision for you?

I think it probably surprised me and made me laugh because I've been a, you know, I'm 56. So I've been in growth strategy for like 30-odd years now. And I always took my clients through the unsexy bits. I always had to fight for them to go, stop, stop distracting yourselves, take the 20 projects off the table, stop telling your team to do this and this and bring your focus back to what is actually going to move the needle. And yet, there I was as my own, you know, I was a bit of a builder's house. It was like I never really got to the foundations. I never really thought, well, what did you used to teach others to do that saw great progress for them that you're missing in your own business? And it was the foundational piece. It really was. It was like, what does good foundations look like for you, Deb? Because that, I find that sexy. That's the bit that I do find. I find structure sexy. I find boundaries. I find discipline sexy because because actually over 30 years I've seen people make millions from that approach. And yes, there's always going to be different trends, different ways we can slice things. But when you get to the stage of 56 and you've been across numerous industries, you realize there is no, nothing new under the sun. There is nothing new. Business is really simple. And if you come at it with a simple mindset and don't overthink it and don't overcomplicate it and allow it to be easy, than it actually can.

I love that you said that because I've asked myself this question before about my programs. Like, you know, people will come in and they'll be like, oh my gosh, mind-blowing. This has changed my life. Like they say all these wonderful, beautiful things. And I think to myself, I mean, I just told you to send more emails or I just told you maybe focus on one-on-one coaching for a little while, put the, put the group down or whatever it is, something simple. But to your point, I think that as entrepreneurs we get so sidetracked and so distracted by, like, the fancy fun, the funnels, the this, the that. And honestly, I tell people all the time, I'm like, I'm not teaching anything extraordinary. I'm literally just simplifying what business is. Like, that's all I'm doing, right?

Yeah.

And that is a common sentiment that, that clients will tell us is like, honestly, I just went back to the foundations and the foundations are what work. Right. And so I love that you said that. I love that. And especially as a growth strategist, you of all people know that like anytime we're doing something complicated, our results are going to be complicated. It's always simple. Simple is always the way.

Yeah.

What was the biggest breakthrough for you in the program? Like maybe a strategy breakthrough or a mindset breakthrough. What was your biggest aha moment?

I think it was, it was probably the bits that we've just talked about, which was, oh, Deb, just go back to letting it be simple. You know, take your hands off the wheel a little bit, loosen your grip a bit, stop looking at all of the really hyped functions that people say you have to bolt on in your business, the funnels, the 20 steps, the upsell, downsell, round the cell. You know, it was like I was do-si-doing through every single different trend. And I was like, I, it just got more and more. It was like, it was like the early days of WordPress was like, there were so many bolt-ons in the end that nothing looked pretty, nothing felt good. And I think that was the bit for me. It was like, come in and retrain yourself in the discipline of just let it be a simple business. And that was a really big deal for me. And I think people really underestimate that because there's actually— The foundational piece in that though is that when you allow yourself to commit to being more disciplined in the way that you support yourself and the way you simplify your business, you start to see that your confidence grows because the noise quietens down. You start to trust yourself and your instinct again because you can actually bloody hear it for the first time. You know, you start to see that A plus B plus C equals D, rather than let's bring the whole shebang in and see which one sticks. And I think that I was just looking for something that just felt grown up, you know. I remember you said that.

You were like, I want to be in a mature room. Can you tell me more about that, actually? Like, you know, I remember you saying something along the lines of like, I want to be in a room where we're really thinking at a high level.

Yeah. I think when you're a growth strategist, it's difficult, isn't it? Because you've operated your brain at a certain level. But the truth is, then you come into a whole new arena, like being a coach, and you can tell yourself that you're starting all over again. And I was at a point when I was seeking you out that I knew that I'd grown out of that bit. That was like my, you know, sticky teenage years where I never believed in myself and I thought I was starting all over again. And then I thought, hold on, Deb, you're just not, you know, you're not there. So stop telling yourself and stop being, you know, stop being your worst enemy and find a room where you can just come in and be a grown-ass woman. That's all I wanted to do was just get on with it, not mess about. Yeah, I'm still gonna have my challenges, you know, I've still, life has been lifing for me this year. But I, I also just wanted to be in a room where people were just getting stuff done, and that was it. It was like, let's, let's support each other. Let's keep the momentum. Let's have some fun, but let's still make it happen, you know, on a weekly basis. And, and I, I needed that because I do feel like there's, there's still a lot of rooms out there that, that haven't reached that level of maturity. And I think it probably is that I wanted the discipline and the real, the rooted foundations, like something a bit more grounded, you know?

Yeah.

And that's what I've found.

I love that. Something that you said that I thought was really interesting was how you were at a place at that point where you felt like you weren't trusting yourself like you used to. And usually when people are in that place, they don't invest in a new program. Usually they're like, oh, I just need to listen to myself. I need to kind of like, you know, they tend to isolate a little bit. Like, I kind of just need to like be alone and have like, listen to my own thoughts. Why did you invest in a program when you were in that space?

I think it just felt like time. I was on the hunt. I was like, I'm doing this, so I need to find that person. And that's it. And when I do, we're locking in, we're going in, and that's— we're done, you know? So I think there's definitely, isn't there, an element of of being ready. I see that with my own clients, and I think that when somebody comes in and they have a state of readiness and a state of willingness, you can do anything with them. You know, it's like the sky's the limit. Come in with openness and willingness, we're good, we're good to go. And, and that's where I was at. I was like, I'm not— I've, I'd felt for about 6 months, so I was like, I'm not messing about. I don't, I'm not messing about. It's like, this is gonna happen. I don't really care about a timeline for this. But I do know that I want to be in a container where I feel as though somebody was rooting for my business as much as I am. I remember saying that to you. I was like, I just want someone that's all in, you know, I want someone with putting that sort of, you know, I described it with one of my VIP clients, like, you know, a few weeks ago, I said, there are only two types of marketing, I think, and there's either hand on hand where you're saying to someone, it's gonna be all right, or there's hand on back where you say, come on, I've got you. And I needed the hand on back part.

Yeah, for sure. Because like you said, you had all the pieces and it literally was just, okay, here's how we pull it together. And then you're able to run off to the races from there. Yeah, I love it. Amazing. I ask everybody this on the podcast recently. I've been asking, uh, whenever I do an interview, What was your big objection to joining? Like, what was your reason why you were like, I might not join because of this? And how would you overcome that now for somebody else?

Yeah, there's, I think everybody, if I'm really honest, everyone should have a pause. I really believe that. I think everybody should have a pause where you are so discerning with yourself that you actually face your own objections before you get in the room with the coach. Because actually, they are going to come up time and time again. If you come into that room with the coach, and you expect them to make your objections feel better, then actually, you're going to come in and have a harder time. And I wanted to face my own objections so that there was no objections when I got in the room. And I didn't want to come in and go, hey, can you just convince me a little bit more because I'm still feeling— I wanted to be, if I'm I'm in, I'm all in, I'm committed today. And the minute— I think I am a bit like that. If I say yes, that's it, you know, I'm in. And I'm not someone who comes into every coaching call. I'm not someone who has, you know, watched every video. I knew what my plan was before I even came in, and I knew that I had a certain amount of time, a certain amount of energy, and a certain amount of focus, and that's where I was going to be headed. And I already knew that the minute I felt that discipline surrounding me and I just focused on my one-on-one, I thought that's the, you know, my investment has been covered right there.

I, I love, I love that you said that because I'm very similar where I'm someone where I'm really big on as much as possible selling myself on what I'm gonna do, why I'm doing it, why it's gonna help me, all the things. And then if I have, you know, a question, of course I'll ask it, but rarely by that time I'm usually already sold. I just have a quick question. And I think you're right. And as you were talking, it made me think about how, you know, the whole point of this program is to show up like a CEO, not just a founder, but like a CEO, like you said, to show up like a mature business owner and to be around other mature business owners. And I do think there is something to be said about when you are considering a program like this, how can I consider this like a CEO? Like you said, right? Like, you know, okay, this is what I'm worried about, but here's what I'm coming into it for. Here's why I'm doing it. Here's why it's going to be helpful. Being very new, like you said, taking a pause and evaluating, being evaluative. I don't even know if that's a word, but being— Being a, like, being an evaluator, a neutral evaluator instead of like, oh no, I'm scared, or what if this, or what if that. Put your CEO hat on. Is this a good investment for your company? Why? Right? What are you gonna do with this? I think that is so, such a strong way to go into any program really, but especially this program where, like you said, we're gonna treat you like a CEO and we're gonna expect you to operate like a CEO and help you do that. Of course, everyone needs to learn and grow into it. But I think that you're right. The first step to really showing up like a CEO is going to be all in how you consider this as your next investment. So I love that.

Yeah. I just think that at some point every coach has to face this where they're investing maybe more than they want to, more than they're comfortable with. We've all been there. But you know what? That is the tipping point. And that's when you learn self-trust. You learn how to speak to yourself in those moments of doubt because you're going to have many more. You know, you don't come into the program and they go away. You have a few more at 3 months in, you have another, another lot of 6 months in, and then 7 months, you know, everything goes to pot. And it's just, you have to learn that skill. But also, in all honesty, I knew that. What was also available to me was a very honest, direct conversation with you guys that if I ever came in and said, I'm just not feeling something, or I don't know where I'm at, or where do I start again? You guys are very, very good at putting your CEO hats on and going, all right, let's have a conversation about it. It's no big deal, Deb, just come in, bring it. You're more of a bring it kind of person. And that is also what I like about the program. There's— there is nothing off the table.

No. Yeah, we're, we are really big on holistic business and life coaching. You know, we know that life affects business. We know that business affects life. And so we always say, yeah, whatever you need, you come in. What you need as a CEO is what you need as a CEO. So you said that life has been lifing, and it's really important to me that my clients are able to run their business even though life is lifing. How do you feel like we've helped you do that in the program?

I, I definitely made a promise to myself before I came in and probably before I chose to work with you guys that this was going to be the group where I would show up no matter what. And And especially if there were messy parts of me showing up. And that was a really hard choice for me, but I felt like it was a bit of a watershed, a sort of catalyst moment for me to decide if I'm going to come into group, which can sometimes feel sticky for me as an introvert. I've been in groups before where I've shown up and I've talked about the business bits and then I get what I need and then I go away. And then I've been left feeling like, yeah, but I didn't talk to you about this that's been going on, and that's been going on. And I remember doing it once in a coaching group, and I did show what was truly going on. And I remember somebody saying, oh, this isn't like you. Where's positive Debbie gone? And I was like, oh, okay, so that's not welcome here, right? I'll retract that. And, and I just feel that that just is not how entrepreneurship works. It just isn't. It's the whole thing. And to be able to come in and know that there would be no shocked face from you if I turned up and told you, like I did, about my psychedelic retreat and, and what came up for me. And, and then I think I cried, you cried a bit, somebody else cried. And it was like, do you know what, the those bits are also forging me. It isn't just about business for me. It's about all the other choices I'm making that make this a very fulfilling process for me. And so, I made a decision that I had to this time bring the whole of me into the group. And I feel like that's what I've done. And it's been so uncomfortable at times because there was a period of like in March this year where one thing happened after another. And I felt like I came in every week crying. And you just were like, okay, it's all good. Nothing's wrong here. You know, there's nothing to fix here. Just, just settle in, let yourself be with whatever you need to bring and however you need to feel. And so that's, that's been a very big step for me to do in a group because previously I've chosen one-on-one so that I have access to that, but it's more private. And I have no idea why, but I felt like this time I had to bring everything. And you guys just, just hold it, whether it's in group or whether it's in the one-on-one, you know, you just go, yeah, of course, of course you're upset. Of course this is happening. Of course you feel like this. Have a good cry. And it's just, it's just very freeing, you know. And it's allowed me to, I think, leave some big stuff behind around you can't show up. When you're messy.

You need to. Like, that's when you need to the most. Yeah. Oh, I'm so glad to hear that because we do so much work to try to make it a safe space for that reason. And yeah, it's— we, we always joke, we're like, don't be surprised if you start talking about, you know, standard operating procedures and then you start crying. Like, that's just— sometimes that happens and it's okay. And yeah, having a community that can hold space for that and not judge you for it and also at the same time empower you through it. Like, it's going to be okay. We can keep it going, right? And I'm so glad that you've experienced that. So amazing. Thank you so much for sharing this. Is there any last things you would want to share with someone considering the program?

I just— what I really want to say is just come in ready and, and do your homework. You know, come in with your CEO hat on, thinking, this is a, this is a serious move for me. You know, don't underestimate it. Come into this space thinking, I'm going to get exactly what I need in here, and I'm going to devote myself to it for the 12 months. And I think that if you do that, you'll get exactly what you need from it. You know, don't come in with the expectation that, You know, it's not about you taking responsibility that you're going to be held by everything that's within the group. I think you get so much more out of it the minute you decide that you back yourself first and then you come in and get what you need from you.

Exactly. And like you said, we give you the structure and the simple action items to make the most of it if you're ready, right? If you're ready, the actions will be simple. It's just a matter of being ready to receive, like, okay, I'm ready for things to be simple, I'm ready to lock in, you're in the perfect place. So I'm so glad you joined when you did, Debbie, and I'm so happy for your results. Please tell people where they can find you.

You can find me on Instagram at Debbie Edwards Coach.

Amazing. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on.

Oh, thank you so much. It's been great.