Ep. 111 How To Stop Seeing Achievement As Validation With Equinox’s Lavinia Errico

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Lavinia Erico is the original Queen of wellness. Back in the 90s, she founded Equinox alongside her brothers. They were the pioneers of gyms that were built for young city dwellers at a time where working out after work was really safe for bodybuilders and athletes. Their business was integral to the rise of the wellness industry and their early clients included Madonna and Michael Douglas. Lavinia's story is absolutely incredible, but what I really didn't expect is how honest she was about reinventing herself and her belief system after exiting the business. I cannot thank her enough for sharing what she's learned, especially what I found so incredibly helpful, which was this concept that breakdown leads to breakthrough. We discussed this a lot in this episode and I feel like it's a really valuable one Whether you are going through something as big as a business exit or any other stage in your life where you're faced with something that you didn't quite expect and being able to use that as a point where you see opportunity, you rather than obstacle. Before we get into the podcast, if you could just go and rate this on whichever podcast app you are listening to this on, it makes a huge difference to the podcast and the types of incredible conversations we're able to have, the types of guests we're able to get on. So no, it's probably something you don't think about, but if you could just go rate it now or follow it, it makes a huge difference. Thank you so. Much. Thank you so much for joining me.

Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here.

I'm very excited for this conversation. I ask every guest right at the beginning of the episode whether you feel like at the moment you are more working hard or hardly working.

Right now I'm working hard.

And is that your only setting?

No. No. You know, we can, for me, we can live in the duality. We can live in that duality of working hard and hardly working. You know, so I, I go back and forth, you know, it's. And because I love what I'm doing so much and it fills my heart and it's meaningful, I don't feel like I'm working. But on the other hand, I'm about being conscious and realizing like that I'm working hard. So I want to make sure, because I know that, that my self care is always in check. Because sometimes I find as women, when we feel like I'm hardly working, but before you know it, you're not sleeping enough and you're nourishing enough of your food and you're not meditating enough because you, you get so into it that you're not always seeing the reality.

No, I couldn't agree more. And I'm a big believer in the fact that rest and productivity are two sides of the same coin. Yeah. And you cannot have one without the other. It's not just that you like, want to have some rest after some productivity. You cannot be productive without good rest. And you also cannot have good rest without being productive.

Exactly.

And I think that when we start, you know, I love your concept of living in the duality and accepting that duality and thriving in that duality. Rather than kind of yo yoing and feeling like you're always too much of one or too much of the other,

making it as if one is good and one is bad. Like, it is. It's just when you just celebrate the flow of both of it, I mean, then you're so free and liberated. And that's. For me, that's like, where I want to be.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And it's a great. A great goal to have. I'd like to start really getting a bit of background on you as a person in terms of what you. Before you even became an entrepreneur. Who. Who were you up to that point? What were key parts of your early life that were kind of formative experiences for who you are now? I'd love to hear a little bit about who you've been from the very beginning.

I. Well, first of all, I come from a big Italian family, and I'm a twin. So I came into the world with, you know, another human. So. And then my mom went on to have another five kids. I mean, my mom had five kids in two and a half years.

Wow.

Yes.

That's very. That's two set winning.

I know. Two sets of twins. So it was twins, single, twins, single, one year after another. It was a lot. Our house was constantly just. It was uberly chaotic and yet filled with love and joy and happiness and chaos and craziness and disorder. It was like all of it. And I feel like being able to survive in that kind of craziness ended up being like a superpower for me. Um, so. But my medicine was always movement, you know, from a time I was a little kid, my mom used to joke and say all of her kids came out of the womb with sneakers on because they just never, never stopped moving. Like, that's just who we were. Then I started dance at about 5 years old. And that, I mean, I would say dancing has probably been one of the most significant parts of my childhood, for sure. I loved to dance. I loved to. I loved the camaraderie. Like, I was in this group at about 12. It was called the Professional Group. We would perform and we would go down to the Atlantic City for the summer and. Or a couple weeks in the summer, and it was just staying up all night, talking all night with the girls. And I just love that. That kind of connection, that deep connection that you would get. So I would say, like, that's when I feel when things started forming, like, who am I? Like, I. Okay, I'm a person that needs movement and music and dance and other girls and connection. And I really started to see, like, a pattern started to form. And then, you know, I remember my mom taking me to one of my first exercise classes. She belonged to an all women's gym. And I remember going downstairs and it was a huge room and I loved it. I mean, I can't explain it, but like other, my other girlfriends or even my cousin used to go with her mother and she didn't like it. She's like, I can't believe they're taking us here. And I would have butterflies in my stomach, so excited to go. And I just loved doing the movements that they were doing and the exercising. And I remember seeing that teacher and I was like, I want to do that. And then I would go home and of course I had three younger sisters, so I would put them in the room and say, I'm going to teach this exercise class.

And I was 10 years old, you

know, and I did it all the time. And even when I didn't have them in the audience, I would pretend. I would pretend I was teaching a class. And I was 10 and 11 and 12 and I just loved it. It was just, I, it was in my bones to just love it. Then I went to college, and when I was at usc, a girlfriend of mine took me to Jane Fonda Studio in on Roberson, and she gave me a few sessions there for my birthday. And because I was a dancer, I could memorize the class. You know, I was great with choreography. And I basically took that Jane Fonda's class and, and I started teaching it at usc. I, I literally, there was a, an empty, it wasn't even a room. It was kind of like a, between two buildings with a roof, you know, an atrium. And I remember grabbing the, the maintenance man or the janitor, I think they called it in that time. And I said to him, hey, could I do a class here? And he goes, well, what kind of class? I said, oh, it's an exercise class. And he's like. I said, I have a boom box. And he goes, yeah, I don't see why not. And I was like, great. So I made flyers and I gave them out at all the sororities. And I said, exercise class at the atrium. I told them where it was and I said, donation only. And I went out and I bought these little mats and, and I had my little boombox and started teaching. And people started coming. And then the next week more people came and then, then they opened another little gym. And I think he went and told that I was teaching, because the next thing I know, he's like, they come and they tell me, you're not going to be able to teach here. You don't have insurance. Somebody gets Hurt. But then he was right there going, but you could teach for me. And it was really funny because at that time I didn't realize because I was so naive. I was like, oh, he's so nice. He letting me teach for him. And then years later, I was like, I think he's the one that went and snitched on me.

Right.

Anyway, so that. So I guess you would say, like, I had a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit. You know, like, I had that spirit that was within me. And I do believe. I always feel like I have to honor my parents because my dad owned like these delicatessens all over New York City. And we used to go to work with him and I learned about the transaction of money and. And being in front of customers and helping customers. And, you know, it's like I grew up in my dad's store on when I wasn't, you know, when we weren't in school or certain things. And I really feel like that got me comfortable on some level. And then my mom was a career woman, even though in, you know, in the 50s, that was unheard of for a woman in the 50s to be a queer woman. So she really instilled in me as a woman that it was boundless. I could do whatever. And that wasn't a generation of that, you know. You know, it was more like you go. Go to college, get married and have children.

Yeah. I mean, first of all, what an incredible story. I think. I mean, you said as part of that, like, I think I had a bit of entrepreneurial spirit. And I'm like, I think you had more than a little bit of entrepreneurial spirit. I'd love to know at this stage for you, in your mind, what did success look like for you? Was it owning your own business? Was it seeing everyone else going into certain types of jobs?

I didn't have a burning desire to own my own business. I do remember when I was coming. Cause I was out here for usc. And then when I went back to New York, New York, I couldn't believe that the workout fitness world at the time LA was like here and New York was here. It was so antiquated back there. And I kept thinking, oh, somebody needs to open a gym. Like, somebody needs it. And at the time when I first got back there, I wanted to open up a workout studio. And actually we were negotiating. My brother was negotiating for me right over the bridge. And it was interesting because the landlords did not want exercise in their beautiful buildings. To them, that was not a prestigious tenant, you know, so it was just like when we went in and we did a beautiful board on what it was going to be. I actually literally just copied Jane Fonda's concept. It was like, I'm just going to be the Jane Fonda of, like, New Jersey. And. And they were like. They couldn't grasp it. Like, exercise was like, you know, why would you do that? Why would you sweat? Why, you know, go for a walk or.

How unladylike.

Yeah, exactly. Why would a women want to sweat? Like it was in public. Yeah, yeah. With other people.

Yeah.

So not so that he did not. And he was kind of like, we were negotiating. He was like, okay, okay. In the meantime, he just kept going out, trying to find other tenants. And then finally he had a restaurant that wanted it. And he was just like, sorry, I have a restaurant. So. And that was really the beginning of. Even with Equinox, which was quite a few years later after that, that vision, landlords didn't want us like they wanted. They would take a billiards over an Equinox, like over a gym. Like, that was just so not a prestigious. And you know, everybody in New York, they're. When they. They own buildings, it's like, I own real estate. Like, they're own real estate. So they want to make sure that their real estate has really good stuff in it. So they could say, hey, my building has. You know. So then I got involved in cosmetics. I went into kind of the executive sort of program. Lancome, who owns it, was owned by Cosmere. And I did their program in a lot of different ways for quite a few years. Then from there, I went into the fragrance industry. And you learn, I mean, I have to say, corporate America in at least then, I don't know now. But then the training you got was impeccable. They worked you hard and you got. You got great training. It was really great with how to sell and customer service and just really how to show up the best version of yourself every day, you know, they pushed you. And we worked hard. You know, it was. It's. It's a hard industry. And I kept. We kept complaining. The gyms here are awful. I just kept complaining, ugh. You know, at one gym, we worked out in a bodybuilding gym. It was down in the basement. You walked in there and you're just praying you weren't going to get some kind of skin disease. I mean, it was like, I. I know I'm walking out of here with like, strap or empetago or something, because this place is filthy.

Yeah.

You know, then you go to another place to do another type of gym, and before you know it, it's like a pickup club. You can't even get through it because every guy's hitting on you. It's just like, really, there just wasn' that one place that you could go to and just have, like, free and have fun and work out and sweat. And there were a couple studios. Like, we had a couple of great studios, actually, but not a whole full gem. So we kind of complained about that for a while. And my brothers at the time were in construction. They were doing construction. And one of the guys that owned a tile company had a building, and he said, you know, I have this building, and it was a women's gym, but it went out of business. But everything's there. It has the pool, it's got a great layout. Aren't you guys gym guys? Because my brothers were kind of big, like, athletic looking. Aren't you gym guys? You should open a gym. And the next thing I know, we opened that gym. It wasn't even called Equinox yet. It was Westchester Health and Fitness. We kind of say it was our proof of concept. So we did that. And then, you know, probably a, I don't know, year and a half later, we opened up the first Equinox. And that was in the city. And yeah, it was. Was all of it. You know, it was.

And what was the difference between the Westchester Health and Fitness that you'd started up prior to, to this Equinox? What was the concept that brought it from being, you know, something that you'd started up as a gym that you've taken over? And this is this, I would say,

in that gym initially, first of all, we had an impeccable group fitness program, the best in Westchester. And the truth is, we built, like, this unbelievable studio. I mean, we built the kind of studio we really wanted to build, to be in, you know, because the studio is only great if the lighting is great and the floor is great. And so we built a club that was hot. Like, it was hot.

What do you. What do you feel like at the very beginning, started to turn that tide in terms of people actually decide because you're reinventing a culture. Like in. When it comes to people, we weren't reinventing.

We were inventing. There was no culture.

Right. So the gym culture isn't. Isn't an exciting thing at all. And creating that from the ground up. In those early days, how were you even getting the customers to believe in this concept? Because it kind of needed to be.

And I think right from the beginning it was like, it was a cool name, it was a cool look. And because of the location that we were in, we were in the Upper west side. All of the soap operas were filmed up there. So automatically we had all the soap opera stars come in. Then we had ABC or one of the big networks was up there, all of they were in there. And literally like, I don't think we were opened six months and it was like they were, you know, we had Madonna, we had, you know, Michael Douglas. We just had all these big stars coming in there to work out. And of course Page Six would get it and all these places. So I think in the beginning it was all of that. It was just like, the celebrities are in there, it's hot, it's sexy, there's great looking people, you know, we had all the models coming in, you know, so it was just like it was hot in the beginning. It was just all about the hotness. However, because we're passionate about the fitness end, we created the programming and then once the programming was so dynamic and fun, you know, we wanted every class to feel like you were at a party. We wanted you to feel like that you're at a party, you're coming in and you're partying in this class and you were sweating and you were, but you were alive, you felt so good. And you know, people would want to take two classes and it was like, I'm taking back to back classes and you know, and then other people would be like, well, I came in at 6 o' clock in the morning and I took Peter Nelson's class at 6 o' clock in the morning. And then I came back at 6:30 at night. It was just, I mean, to watch that transformation of people getting so excited and turned on by getting fit and healthy. I mean for us that was just magical, you know.

And what do you think was the most effective, I guess, piece of marketing at that stage in the journey?

Hands down, the best marketing was referrals. Your customers were by far your best, you know.

Yeah.

And now I'm even, you know, I talk about that all the time. You know, that is your best, that is by far your best marketing is having people would go out to dinner. I mean, New York's very social, so they would literally go from the gym and then they go out with their group of people and when they're like, I love my gym, oh my God, I take the best classes. And especially when it was a person who really hated working out and now they're saying it like their friends were running in. Yeah, if she likes it. And that girl barely likes to walk a block, you must be doing something in here because this girl is not a mover. Well, it's not like she was a cheerleader in high school and liked to move. Like, this girl is like, not. And we, I really saw so many people that we really brought from that, from non movers to left feet. Not enjoy working out the thought of sweating. No, thank you. Into like obsessed. Yeah, for sure.

And I always talk about the value of product itself as marketing and the fact that, you know, you have every single digital marketing expert you can.

Yeah.

You know, you can be the best in the game. And if people get their hands on the product once or they try the product once.

Right.

And it's, you know, you've just spent that much on acquiring that customer. And are they, first of all, are they going to come back? Probably not. Second of all, are they going to tell their friends? Definitely not.

Yes, for sure. And then I think the other thing is to keep them long term, you have to evolve. You have to constantly have your program evolving and evolving and evolving. And that's where I would say we. That was also a big superpower for us. You know, we were constantly, we weren't just growing and we were opening a new club every year. And then we opened the wellness center and we had a wellness center. And people were like, what is this? And, you know, we were doing acupuncture and chiropractic and homeopathy and meditation. I mean, we're doing this in 1997. You know, hypnotherapy, like stuff. It's hard to find places like that now with everything, you know, iridology and we had detox programs and, you know, we were way ahead of our time on that. Way ahead of our time.

And so how did you keep evolving? I can imagine that it was probably pretty easy to rest on your laurels at that point in comparison to saying, okay, what's next? What's next? What's next?

You know, first of all, in the weirdest way, I feel like a lot of the stuff that we were creating content was around my personal life. Like I literally jumped out of bed one day. I think we were about two years in and I fell flat on my face and end up in the hospital. Broke my jaw here, broke my chin. Like, I was definitely not good. And I was in. What was. I was saying, like I was beyond fitness, you know, had a resting heart rate of. I don't know, like 57, 58. I had combined cholesterol of 140 with my HDL. Really good. I had, you know, my body fat was 16, 17%. Like, I was just, I walked in a room, people like, wow, she's fit. And in those days, we thought if you were fit, you were healthy, right? Like, you're fit, you're healthy. And then you realize, woohoo, that's not health when you're falling flat on your face. And that was the exploration of realizing over the next two years, wow, you can be really fit and really unhealthy. So what does it take to be healthy? And then we started, I realized that you have to be spiritually healthy, mentally healthy, emotionally healthy, and physically healthy. And today I would add financially healthy and sexually healthy. And that's where health lives, you know. So yeah, and then what we did, we started creating program around that. So, you know, through that breakdown, and I always say every breakdown creates a breakthrough if you're conscious and you're awake and you're aware and you're doing some work. Then I literally had this crazy thing happen where I was at the beach. Always wear sunscreen. I come off the beach and I have these brown spots all over my face.

Face.

I was like, what? I mean, at first my mom looked at me, she goes, what? We have freckles? Well, they didn't go away. It looked like somebody put brown paint on me, went like that on my face. I was. Oh my God, I was beside myself. Went to a couple different dermatologists, and then one doctor recommended a program and it was like, wow, this is amazing. But it was a combination of food. So I started seeing Oz Garcia, who's still amazing. I started seeing him, he started changing, you know, got me off wheat, got me off dairy, you know, which was unheard of in, you know, 1998. Nobody was talking about being off of weed and all that stuff. So between that and the dermatologist, and then I realized, okay, we have to open a Medispa. So then we opened up the Equinox Medispa. So, you know, so much of that came from when you do have a breakdown, which this was a breakdown, you start learning all the different things, then that's an opportunity. Well, if I'm going through this, other people are going through this too. So then we created the Medispa. We brought in Oz Garcia for the nutrition program. We created all of the supplementation through that. And then even with that, people thought we were crazy. You know, in, you know, 1998 supplements like that, you know, people in those days, hey, just take a multivitamin. You're good. You know, like, that was it, you know, and that is so not it. Right.

And how did you. You've obviously created this greatness in. I mean, at the beginning, in one location. And you've built this brand and you've built this. You know, as you say, you're going out and you're literally finding the people who should be.

Yeah.

How did you. Obviously, you start to expand and you start to open up different locations. You said you were opening up a new location every year. How did you replicate that greatness? Understanding that you can't, obviously.

I mean, first of all, we had a great team. I mean, by that time, like the people that were working with us, and most of them were, we promoted from within very few times. Maybe in sales, we would bring somebody from the outside, but in fitness, it was all homegrown. You know, your people, you would see who stepped up to the plate, who could make great things happen in one club. And then it was like, oh, we're bringing them in. It's like. It was all I could say, it was a lab. Like Equinox was this lab for just creating, creating. I mean, today I think we would have had the Equinox lab. That would have been just the place where people could create, but that was happening in everywhere. Like, every club, one of the managers would say, hey, I'll pilot. I like that idea. Let me pilot it. So they would pilot it for 90 days, see how it goes. And then once it's going, they would be the ones that would create the protocols for how we're going to roll it out. So it was very methodical, you know. It really was.

Yeah, it sounds like you really built that kind of reinvention and evolution into the process itself. You know, you're. You're coming out with these things over and over again. And it that, especially when you're looking at a subscription business model, which essentially is someone, you know, a gym membership is this need for constant reinvention to keep people from churning and to keep people at this rate.

It's reinvention, but it's also consistency. You know, that's the part where you have to keep the consistency of the operations. I mean, the operations, I would say in is challenging. You know, that's a part that is definitely was challenging, and yet I think we executed that really well. You know, when people come in and they want to take a shower, they don't want to walk in a shower and have hair in that shower.

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game, shifting a little money here, a little there, and hoping it all works out well? With the Name your price tool from Progressive, you can be a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill too. You tell Progressive what you want to pay for car insurance and they'll help you find options within your budget. Try it today@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law not available in all

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history shows women keep showing up for everyone every day. But who's showing up for you? Grow Therapy helps you put your mental health first with therapy that's covered by insurance and built to support you whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th. Grow makes it easier to find a therapist who fits you, not the other way around. You can search by what matters like insurance, specialty, identity or availability, and get started in as little as two days. There are no subscriptions, no long term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states. Sessions average about $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit growththerapy.com acast to get started. That's growthherapy.com acast growtherapy.com acasta availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

And where did you get this kind of appetite for greatness? Like you could have started this and it could have and it was a hit, and you enjoy that being a hit. Maybe you open another location, but this consistency and reinvention isn't necessarily built into it. You don't, you know, you're fine with having something on it for three weeks. People aren't going to quit their memberships, whatever it might be. Where did this come from this kind of obsession with detail and ensuring that the product and the service that you were providing was not just their money's worth, but literally the best it could possibly be.

The operations wasn't like, our strong suit in the beginning, but you have to very quickly make it your strong suit. But it became our culture. Like, our culture was really about. Like, we would tell our staff, we would. Like, we would have staff meetings all the time, bringing everybody in and making sure they understood the culture. And that's what I think gets missed a lot in today. Like, somebody gets hired, and it's like they go train. They get trained in, like, two minutes, and they're out there to go and run something. And then how often do you ask somebody something and they're like, I don't really can't answer that. I've only been here three weeks, and I'm thinking, three weeks, like, that's not so short. And you don't know that. You know, like, they don't. Today brands don't spend enough time training their people. And I understand why, because it's expensive. It's expensive to train. And we did train. Like, we were obsessed with making sure people understood what our culture was. And our culture was literally, like, when you walk in, we would tell everybody when you walk in the restroom into the locker room to use it. If there's a towel on the floor, you don't walk past that towel. You pick that towel up and you put that in the towel bin. And we don't want to hear, but that's not my job description. No, no, no, no. At Equinox, we do everything. It's like, that was our culture if we're gonna do this. And we did it as owners as well. So we didn't just walk around and say, maintenance, come pick up the towels. Like, we got. If I walked in and I saw five towels, I picked those towels up. If I saw hair in the sink, I grabbed it and cleaned out the hair in the sink. I didn't run and get the maintenance person. You know, like, when your staff sees you doing it, they go, this is how we show up here, right? This is the culture here, right? And you have to train that and you have to embody it. It's like it's a total embodiment. You can't just stand in front of your people and give them dialogue. They have to, like, you have to be in it with them. Especially those first five years when you're building a culture that's really, really strong. You have to Maybe even your first 10 years. I mean, that's why I think we were. I was exhausted. Because those first 10 years, you're building culture. You're building like you're building something from nothing. You don't always say, like, the first 50 million is the hardest. After that, it's not that. It's not. It's easy, but, you know, it's like, because you're creating something from nothing, you know, when there's so many layers to it. And I do believe a big part of it, for me at least, was that. And because of it, I never invest. Ever. When there's one founder, really never. No. 2. My preferences is 3, because I really understand that the scope of what it takes. So when you, you know, to really trailblaze something from the ground. From the ground, like it takes. It took the three of us, you know, to. To the energy of together, where you're alone, what you think is, you know, what my one Vito, my one brother Vito thought was so important? I'd be like.

Like, come on.

But he thought it, and he was right. And then when my other brother thought this was so important, I'd be like, okay. And he was right. I wouldn't have thought that. And I'm sure there are times I came up with stuff and they're like, there goes Lavinia being Lavinia, you know. But it was all of that together, you know, that marinated and made that stew so delicious and amazing, you know.

So I want to come on to talk about exit. And obviously you had a hugely successful exit, and people often within entrepreneurship especially think of that as the end goal, the be all and end all and the sign of success. Yeah, I'd love to hear from you what it kind of felt like to start being faced with this thing that was exit, how that started to come up, how that realized itself, and kind of what you started thinking when this became an option.

I remember even years before that, we weren't even open that long. Somebody had a conversation with my brother about buying us or melding with us or something. And at that point we were just like, no, like. But I think the time came when there was. I'm not even sure if we ignited the interest first or if people started talking, you know, and that would have been more in my brother's year, because that was really his domain, you know, the finance part of it and that. And then all of a sudden that started, you know, being a thread. Maybe we're going to sell or do we sell? And I mean, I have to admit at that point, I was ready on some level because I was a mom, had a little kid. I was torn. I definitely had to. I mean, I literally had my son on a Monday, and the following Monday, I had a marketing meeting in my apartment, and I had a C section. Wow. Yeah. Like, there was no way around it. So. And that's kind of how it was until, you know, I had him in 1994. We sold right at the end of 2000, almost in 2001. So, I mean, I. Those six years were, you know, I basically had to. Yeah, it was. It was hard. And that's why I always tell people, entrepreneurship isn't for everyone. You know, it's tough. It's tough. But I knew, like, when I would try to, like, sneak away, to not sneak away, but, like, go to, like, something at my son's preschool, it was like the whole time I was there, I wasn't even there. You know, I was like, my mind was somewhere else, thinking about, like, all the stuff that I have to get done for a meeting or for something or the mail piece that's going out at the end of the week. And, you know, it's just like, I was never present, you know? And then I was at work doing what I had to do, feeling guilty that I'm not going to see my son today because I have a meeting. I was trying to get home for an hour, but I couldn't get home for an hour and have a dinner that night. So it's just like, you know, you're. You're back and forth. You know, you're just like, you're here, but you're. And then you're there. So I was like. I was tired of that for sure. Like, it was a lot, you know, and yet I knew we were doing something that was so special. So I didn't want to ever give that up. Like, it wasn't like I ever thought about, you know, like, oh, even when it was time, like, we had directors of marketing and PR and things like that. But I never missed a meeting. Like, I just. I don't know if I was a control freak, but I didn't want to ever miss those meetings. I needed to be in those meetings. I needed to be in the fitness meetings. I needed to be in the marketing meetings, needed to be in the PR me. I needed to be in the spa meetings. I needed to be in the group. Like, I needed to be in those meetings. And then, of course, you go to those meetings, and now you're walking out of there. With 10 things that we came up with that have to get executed in those meetings. So yeah, so it was just. And the whole year that we went through the entire exercise of, you know, hiring the investment bankers that were doing the whole selling. And of course, you know, it's a, it's a very detailed, you know, with the forensic accountants and then, and when we were being bought the first time, there were two different companies. So they had their forensic accountants and they had their forensic. And there was negotiation after negotiation. It was just a lot, you know. And we were also aware that if this deal didn't happen, we weren't going anywhere. So, you know, it was, it was a, it was an interesting year. It was like we were committed to sell, but it might not sell and it might not sell. Like we didn't want to stay on. Like we wanted to walk away. We didn't want to now work for somebody else. So, you know, that, you know, sometimes they want to keep you for a couple years or they want to buy out, you know, the way we wanted to frame that was very, very specific. So yeah. And then when it happened, honestly, like I really thought we went out and we celebrated that night. You know, the day like the funds get wired in.

You're like, of course.

It's like, wow. And I just remember everybody, we had a huge table at a Cipriani in downtown and we had this big, huge table and I just, everybody was walking up to me and like, can you believe it? Can you believe it? And I just was like, I don't think it's hit me yet. Like it just like, I mean, first of all, like, it funded at 5 and this was 7. I'm like, I don't think it hit me yet. It hasn't hit me yet. And then, you know, next few days we go into saying our goodbyes to everybody. And you know, a lot of people didn't know, many people didn't know we were selling. They thought we were just wasting money. So now we had to have these very hard conversations with everybody that were leaving and said our goodbyes and cleaning out our office. And thankfully it was like right before Christmas holiday, you know, literally like right before. And then we had a Christmas, you know, Eve dinner and went on our vacations. And when I came back, like January 3rd and the next day we go to. I haven't taken my son to drop off. Now I'm a drop off mom. What a new concept. Anyway, I take him and his dad went to, you know, went to work and I take him To. And as I'm walking off the playground, it was literally. And I was with the other moms for a little bit, and they went in and, yeah, my son was in second grade. And I go to say goodbye to them, and I turn around and it was. If the entire playground went like this, like, closed in. And my. It was like my ears got muffled and I couldn't really hear. And the whole thing came in and I was like. And I'm standing there for a second thinking, am I having a stroke? Am I having a heart attack? Like, I didn't know what was happening. And I'm standing there and a couple of the girls like, are you alike? Oh, yeah. I'm like, good. I'm just thinking of something, something I, you know, queen of. Queen of health here. Right? So I can't. Can't reveal that. I don't know what happened. I don't. I was going to faint. And first of all, once you sell. You never think of that moment. You never think of the moment of, like, where am I going? Like, where am I going? It's the first time in my life that I had absolutely nowhere to go. Like, I never had that. You know, you wake up, you're a student, you're going, you're going to work, you're going here, you're going there. You got, you just got a to do list. You got hundred things you got to do every day. I was walking out, I'm just like. And I'm waiting, and then I go home. I remember calling my mom. I'm like, I don't know, mom, what happened? I. I don't. I. I don't know if I'm having a stroke. She's like, you're having a stroke. Go to sleep. I think you're tired. I probably stayed like that a couple months.

Wow.

And then finally. And I couldn't tell anybody because how do you tell people that you're in this funk? And they're like, oh, just go shopping.

Yeah, look at your bank account.

Like, just go and have some shop therapy. You'll be fine. So I couldn't have. Other than my mom. I really had no one to share that I was literally paralyzed. So I started therapy and I learned that I was in a identity paralysis. And it wasn't just from equinox, it was from my whole life that everything on the outside that I do is how I've always gotten my identity, you know, so starting as a student, being a great student, you know, winning the first. Probably the worst thing that probably could have happened is winning like a spelling bee in. In first grade, learning that when, oh, this feels so good. I feel so loved. And then I had to always win. Be the best, be the best, be the best. And that became my whole identity. The best daughter, the best sister, the whatever, the. The fastest runner. Like, I just, you know. But through the therapy, I learned that it was my deep insecurity that made me so competitive. You know, it wasn't really, you know, we have our nurture and we have our nature. My nature wasn't to be quite that competitive. Like my mom said, oh, she's so competitive. I was. My shadow was my insecurity. My competitiveness was the opposite side of. Of that. Right? So I had to learn how to learn how to redo, how to learn to build myself. I had to connect with self, love myself, my true, you know, self. So I had to do that, that deep work. And it was the best gift I ever got. I mean, the bet one of, yeah, for sure. So that's why today I talk to a lot of young people and I say, look, look, when you're building your wealth, at the same time, build yourself, do the inner work, do it, build your wealth the same way you invest. You invest in everything to have monetization and your brand, invest in yourself. It's really important because when you get to the top and it's like if you're void and you get paralyzed, you know? And it was interesting because my two brothers, well, one brother went on to do stuff in a hotel, and I had already started therapy, and they were like, come, do the spa with us. Do this with us. You know, do this part. Do you with us in the hotel. And I was ready to jump right back in because I didn't want to feel. And then the therapist was like, why? You need to feel this? You need to grow from this. So, yeah.

And even though your exit was that hard, if you were to go back again to this point, would you have done anything differently around this time of exit? Either prior to signing those papers and getting those funds or just afterwards?

I do think that sometimes life, you don't ask. I could have done it different. I should have done it different. You just have to just, like, let it land that this is my journey. You know, we do have to be open to some ebb and flow, you know, to allow that, the space for that. We're all going to have our lessons, by the way. Like, we're going to get our lessons. Some people are really lucky they can get their lesson. It's like just a little knock on the door. Other people need to be hit by a Mack truck. I was a little bit the Mack truck girl. And that's why today I mentor and I speak, because I want to try to plant a seed for other young women to be able to get it at the knock on the door and not in the Mack truck, because I understand the suffering and the pain that you have to go through on the Mack truck.

And so how did you unlearn this tie between your identity and achievement and validation?

We all have these patterns, right? So once you start being able to identify the pattern of what is your pattern, then you're able to release that. You know, you're able to release some of those patterns. So for me, years ago, it was therapy, more therapy, and then I. And then spiritual, you know, chanting, meditation. I had a. I had a spiritual teacher that I worked with. I went to India with him and did some pilgrimages and things like that. So I did that. I mean, today there's a woman by the name of Brandy Gilmore who I think is amazing. She has a new book out, and she's phenomenal with helping people break those patterns. Yeah, I think there's so many different ways. You know, there's different personal transformation programs that are really great. You know, we're so lucky today. Like, this area for personal transformation is so rich. It's so rich. And the thing is, some of it you need to have a lot of money for, but there's other stuff that's so affordable for people to be able to do. The other thing I learned the last time around was journaling. Journaling really helped me. And I would ask questions what really makes me happy, but not things like not around other people or not around my son. It had to be what makes me happy, you know? And the more I got in touch, with me, it was like, I love nature. You know, I love being in nature. I love, you know, I love contributing. Like, when you start really understanding who you are to, like, explore. Explore a lot of different things that make you happy, you know?

And so speaking way back before, I guess a lot of people are even thinking about Exit, or their version of Exit, whatever that might be, that thing that they're chasing kind of as this North Star, that's maybe not necessarily the right thing to chase. What would you say to someone who is kind of constantly chasing this success, not necessarily for the value of the journey, but more to kind of just keep getting those achievements, keep getting that validation, keep reaching an end goal?

You want to know who's driving that, you want to know what's. Is it fear driving that? Is it shame driving that? Is it not being enough driving that is not feeling worthy driving that. Like, that's why you want to do the work. You want to do the deep inside work. For sure.

I'd have to really think to work out that that was what was leading that for me.

And you know what? When you know that's part of it, right? That's part of. Lets out a little bit of steam energetically when you're like, hey. Cause I know even now. All right, hey. I know I'm doing this out of guilt right now. I don't really feel like doing this, but I'm doing it out of guilt. You own it. You own the power. But when you don't own the actual real feeling of why you're doing it, that's where the incongruency is. So, yes, it's okay. Saying, oh my God, I'm having an insecure moment right now. That is transformation. Most people don't know that.

That.

So when they're having an in, when they're having that insecure moment, they walk in and they're like, just got on Gucci shoes. Like, they start. There's another thing that goes on.

Yeah, right.

I shouldn't have worn my Adidas. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, it's an insecure.

Yeah.

But if I walk in and I find myself doing that and say, okay, girl, you're having an insecure moment now. Just love yourself, Just be you. You're good. Like, we all have it. We're human. We're all going to have human experiences every day. And sometimes they're messy, and sometimes they're gossipy, and sometimes they're insecure. But when we know it and we can identify it, then you can have fun with it. I could even, you know, like, you have it.

Yeah. And I think that's. I think that's really powerful. And I also think that one of the things that for myself has allowed myself to. To kind of encourage self awareness at every point of, you know, no matter how hard I'm finding things or no matter how busy I feel or whatever it might be, actually saying that out loud has been really powerful for me in terms of being able to not just take the power away of it, like for myself, but also for someone else to really not project whatever that might be. Cause I do think you can allow it to snowball.

Yeah, for sure. And I do think that you're aware of it and you call it, you call it out, you call it out on yourself. That's part of doing the work. That is definitely a strategy.

I want to know the overall lessons, I guess that you feel that you've really learned from this reinvention. And I'd love to hear what you feel are the main lessons that you learned throughout that whole process.

Number one, I got trust my feeling, trust my intuition on things like it really, I got that. Like, I remember standing outside of Equinox before we opened, maybe like four days before, five days before we opened, and my one brother said to me, do you think we're going to be successful here? And I just remember looking at it and thinking, yeah, this didn't really turn, you know, you like have a vision, right? But, but you're like the vision, the execution of your vision wasn't really quite so good, you know, it wasn't so good. But he looks at me and he goes, do you think we're going to be successful? And I got this pang in my stomach and I said, beyond. And he's like, why do you say that? And I said, I don't know, I just know. And he's like, I just know. I said, I know we're going to be so successful. And I, I make sure I remember that day a lot because my intuitiveness is so on point at times, not with everything, but at times like when I get that I have to trust that. So that was one thing it really got me, was to trust my intuitiveness. So yeah, I would say to really. And be will. I learned to be a risk taker, you know.

Yeah, no, I think that, I think it shows, and I think it shows from the success overall kind of, of, I mean, the entire thing.

I mean, I wasn't always comfortable talking. I mean, it took me a while just to get comfortable with what it, what, what was happening. And once I saw and then I moved on from it and you know, you know how that is. You have time to go back and say, you know, and then also you get to a point, you get to an age where you're realizing, you know, we have to give back to the next generation, like, we have to help. And so how can I contribute? How can my story, like, look, I don't even love talking about the Equinox story so much, to be honest, because except when it's going to help people get to the next place and realize that things are messy. And I don't, I'm, for whatever reason, I don't Mind showing that side of myself, I don't mind. Like, today I did a. Had a great talk, and this guy came up to me and he goes, wow, that was so courageous of you to be so vulnerable. And for a second, I thought, what did I talk about that was so vulnerable? Because for me, I'm. I kind of live at that place. I've gotten very used to. If it's appropriate, I don't go around, but if it's appropriate to be able to share something that didn't work out in my favor, you know, to share a breakdown that eventually brought me to a breakthrough. Like, I enjoy those kind of conversations. Like, I'm a person that can't sit around in shallow water too long just talking about lipstick and eyeliner. I can have that conversation, too, once in a while, but I can't stay there.

Yeah.

Like, I like a deeper talk.

Right?

Yeah. And vulnerability absolutely builds connection and breaks down barriers. And, you know, I like, that's exactly what we try and do with this podcast as well. Even in the way that, you know, we can all sit there and talk about the best parts of our lives

or we realized where we were being, you know, human, you know, where we were being catty or unkind because. Because everybody will go through it. You know, it's just. And it's how you clean it up, how you get in communication to clean it up, how you. The choices you make, you know, from that catching yourself. Ooh, I was being. Coming, you know, judging Judy. I don't want to judge, you know, and, like, you catch yourself. Like, I have my least. I have these little funny little vignettes when, you know, I'm gonna judge or criticize or something. I want to self correct. You know, self correction is part of becoming a better version of yourself.

Right?

No, absolutely. And since that exit and since that kind of initiation of this transformation, what have you been most proud of?

So I think for me, it's. I am. I'm definitely proud of the young people that I've worked with, that I've mentored, the brands, and just how I've grown. You know, I went from a motivational speaker to a transformational speaker. And that doesn't sound like a lot, but it took a lot of work to go from one to the other.

It's a huge thing to celebrate and a huge thing for us all to foster within ourselves, because it's a muscle that needs to be trained and exercised and sometimes isn't the most comfortable. But when you let it out, it's important Just before we end, I'd love to know what the best piece of advice you've ever been given is.

You know, I know it's not going to be like, whoa, and so empowering, but it's my best piece of advice is, Lavinia, just be you. Just be you. And by the way, I use that a lot. Like, even today I was doing this, I present in front of women. Like women in my lane. I get called into women's organizations to speak women's wellness, women's entrepreneurship. So today I went to speak at a finance with all men, majority men. I mean, they had a few women, but small amount of women in the room. And I started writing my talk for it and I was like, because I'm like, I'm going to be the financial men, going to be the financial man. And I've got to incorporate a language that they understand. And I just kept hearing that, Lavinia, just be you. If you're just you just go in with your heart. Just go in with your heart. And I did. And it was amazing that because sometimes we, we don't always let that land. It's like, well, what do they want? No, you go in and be you. Now you have to know your audience. You have to know your eyeballs, right? You have to know what's going to inspire them inside of always being you. So for me it's like, just be you. Trust that you is what that. And I would say for me, because I was somebody that had a lot of fear and so the be for me was shifting from fear to faith. Just have faith. Have faith. Have faith.

Well, I think that's a perfect place to end. Thank you so much.

Yes, it's wonderful.

You've been incredible and I think think people can learn a huge, huge amount from your story. So thank you so much for sharing.

Thank you.

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