Growing Profitable Personal Brands with AJ Vaden

Today on the podcast, we are joined by AJ Vaden, the CEO of Brand Builders Group and New York Times bestselling author of Wealthy and Well Known. AJ, welcome to the Organized 365 podcast.

Thank you. And it's so funny being introduced that way. That's still very fresh and very exciting. So I'm happy to be here. It's going to be great.

That's why I did it. It's a big deal to be a bestseller and especially a New York Times bestseller. I know that's a goal that you've had and worked really hard towards achieving. So Congratulations!

Thank you. Thank you so much. We're so proud of the book, and regardless if it hit the list or not, we're just so very proud of the work. And I'm super glad that it did because I think that's going to help the message spread. But, uh, it's been a wild, a wild ride. For anyone who has published a book, uh, knows what that's like. But we're on the other side, so we're so excited about it.

Yes, so awesome. And And we've had a pretty long relationship. So I wanna give a little bit of a background. Your husband Rory wrote the book, the bestselling book, Take the Stairs, and he really shopped that around the direct selling market when I was in Creative Memories. So I heard of the book and I was in book clubs about the book. And then later when I started Organize 365, I actually worked with the previous company that you were associated with. And then when did you actually start Brand Builders Group?

Technically, it was June of 2018, so we just celebrated 7 years.

Okay, so it was December of 2018 then that I joined as a Brand Builders client. You know, I'm a weird entrepreneur, so I signed up in December and Kristen is an awesome coach. So she was like, I'll work on January 1st. So January 1st of 2020, I did stage 1 in 1 day. And then that week I had another 1 or 2 day intensive and we did stage 2. Like by January 10th, I think I was through almost through stage 3, and I'll talk about that in a minute. Rory was like, you are the fastest person to get through any of these stages. And truth be told, you guys were still building some of those stages at the time. So I was moving a little bit too fast for you guys. You're like, could you slow down? I was like, no, I have to get this done.

We're building as we go here.

Yes. Right. So, and then you've got someone like me who's like, just, I've been in your ecosphere for so long and already partaking of your stuff and, like, knew Rory's reputation. reputation and experience so many things, I knew I wanted to be in on the, the introductory of all that as well. Can you share a little bit about that 2018, 2019, 2020, like the starting of a company? You both have been successful in other things and you started this brand new thing, the early days of starting Brand Builders and what you were trying to accomplish in this new thing.

Yes. That's such a loaded question. I'm gonna have to like watch myself on the clock here. Um, but as you mentioned, you know, Rory and I, uh, are business partners. We were business partners before we fell in love and got married. And our current company, Brand Builders Group, is our second venture together. And when we first met, we met in 2006 as when we were starting our first company with 2 other business partners. We had investors and that was in the sales training, the sales coaching space. And we actually started, a lot of people don't know that we actually started with seminars. Putting on big motivational sales training seminars. This was back in the day where, you know, Tom Hopkins was still doing it, Brian Tracy, Tony Robbins' team was still going office to office selling tickets to his conferences before he was the Tony Robbins of today. And we did that, uh, for almost 5 full years before we migrated that business into a sales coaching, then consulting business. Then we started a speakers bureau. And, uh, long story short, as lots of people do, as lots of companies do, over the course of that 13-year professional span, things changed. Desires changed. Alignment changed. And I found myself in a place where, man, I had made work my idol. I had really lost myself in the effort of starting these companies and revenue and profit and title and ambition and ego and all the things that it took me a lot of years to admit to myself and then publicly. But over that 13 years, I really got lost in my work and all my worth was in it. All my identity was in it, and I was in a pretty unhealthy space. I knew that this wasn't a good place for me to be anymore because of my own issues of putting everything else second to work. God, family, friends, like all in the name of profitability. And, uh, so there had been some conversations amongst, you know, the leaders of our prior company where I finally just, you know, thought I really need to share some thoughts I had. And, uh, if you don't know me very well, you wouldn't know this, but I, uh, I typically, um, I'm rather opinionated and I don't really hold back and I Didn't do so here either. And I found myself 2 weeks after very, very fired. And so, uh, it was a very—

From a company that you own.

Yeah.

Okay. Just, just to be clear.

Founding member of. Um, yes. Found myself with no notice, uh, being told my services are no longer needed here. Today is your last day. And as I exited the building, the contacts in my phone were erased. My key card no longer worked. My team was being called simultaneously, and it was very humbling and it was very necessary. And what I didn't realize in all of this is, you know, there's sometimes the necessary ending that has to happen, but if we don't make it proactively, then eventually it will happen for us or to us.

Mm-hmm.

And I think those are 2 very distinct things, some for us, some to us. This was definitely for me. I didn't have the courage to do what I know I needed to do, which was leave. It wasn't the right place for me anymore. So it happened for me. And in the middle of this chaos, in the middle of my whole world literally kind of falling apart, crumbling down to the ground, there was this moment of terror and also this moment of overwhelming peace.

Yeah.

and gratitude of, I felt like this 800-pound gorilla was finally off my back. And at the same time of like, oh no, what happens now? And so I just want to like give a little preface. It was 13 years of my life, not just my professional life.

This was my life.

Just gone.

Poof. Yeah.

Overnight. Just gone. And then 2 weeks later, Rory resigned. But I think this is a very important thing to note, that it was in the middle of that that we started Brand Builders Group. And that's important because we did not have a plan to start Brand Builders Group. This was not something we were out to do. This is— this wasn't a dream. It wasn't even a dream. This wasn't even a goal. Like, I don't even think we could have dreamed this up if we wanted to. at that particular season in our life. And I just very much believe in divine orchestration and divine power. You know, I'm not shy about my faith. I very much believe in God, and I believe that he is ruler over my life and that he works for the good of those who love him. And in the middle of all this chaos, this very unusual call happened from Lewis Howes. And we had met Lewis a decade earlier when Rory launched Take the Stairs on a PR cold outreach pitch when Lewis's podcast was not as big as it is today. And Rory and Lewis became casual friends, not good friends, definitely not intimate friends. And when he called us in May of 2018, we had not actually talked to Lewis in almost 2 years. So the fact that he called 2 days after I was fired and with the call that he had, it just It was so obvious to us there was something bigger at play here. And the long story short is, you know, Lewis reached out and said, hey, I'm kind of stagnant in my business. I know I'm diluted. I know I'm being pulled in all these different directions. I'm saying yes to a lot of stuff. We're growing, the business is growing, but at the same time, I'm doing a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't feel aligned and right. And for some reason, I just kept getting this nudge for the last few months I'm supposed to reach out to you guys. And Rory and I are sitting there looking at each other like, why? Like, why? And he was like, I don't know, I just, I feel like you guys would be really able to help me with what you guys do in your business. And, and we said, oh, that business.

Yeah.

Well, you know, we told him about what happened. He goes, well, sounds like you have some time on your hands. And we said, we do. So he flew out to Nashville, spent 2 days with us in our business, very similar to like the 2 days that you experienced not too long after that.

Mm-hmm.

And I think this is also really important for everyone who's on an entrepreneurial journey, aspiring to be, has been. This is really important. And at the end of those 2 days, someone else looked us in the eye and said, this is what you're meant to do. Whatever happened happened for this reason. What you just did for me in these 2 days is why this happened. This is the calling. This is what you have to do. Let me help you. And it would've been really easy for us to go, this is not it. I just got fired. Rory hadn't even resigned yet. Like, no thank you. We appreciate it, but no thanks. It would've been so easy to justify a hard no in this crazy season of like, well, we'll think about it. And Lewis said, no, I got a mastermind in 2 weeks. I think y'all should come and pitch your new business. We did not have a new business. What business are we pitching here? He goes, the one that you just did for me. And sometimes it's necessary to let other people speak life into you and to allow other people to see the gifts that you have, that you're just, you know, too close to the forest to see the trees. And sometimes you have to just be brave enough to say yes. And in that season, We had just enough faith, uh, to say yes. And that is how Brand Builders Group started. So when people ask us why'd we start it, how do we start it, I genuinely, with full authenticity, say we didn't. God did. And he used Lewis, and he used, you know, a whole bunch of random things put together that were not coincidental to allow us to start a path to what it is today.

Can I ask how old you were when you started Brand Builders, you and Rory?

Yeah. So that would have been— I just turned 42 last week. And so we started our first business together when I was 22. So Rory and I have now officially been in business together for 20 years. And so we had just had our first baby. So I was almost 36, but 35.

And is Rory the same age as you?

He's 1 year older.

Okay. I just asked because often the thing that is your uniqueness, what you're uniquely gifted and created to do, doesn't really manifest until closer to 40 because you have to have some adult lived experience in order to figure out what your uniqueness is. And in my observation, I was 40 when I started Organize 365. I knew you were younger, but yeah, you need to have some of that experience. And to me, it's like from the outside, having watched Rory since forever, it's a no-brainer. And I was drawn into all of your businesses because of the consistency of Rory over the years, and now as I've gotten to know you, when you put in the effort day in, day out, year over year, and you continue to uplevel yourself and refine your own gifts, your uniqueness continues to evolve. So to me, it's like, yeah, it was like just obvious watching it. Whereas you on the inside are like, no, I think I've achieved what I'm supposed to. Like, no, we're always growing and achieving. So why I bought into Brand Builders, I think is interesting. So I already was a million-dollar business. when I chose to opt into Brand Builders, I had become a million-dollar business in the summer of 2019. And I was looking for a couple of things. One, I knew Rory was very good at business, period. Great at sales, great at business. You guys had started multiple businesses over the years. You had people that voluntarily followed you to new businesses, which is admirable and, and just speaks to your integrity and your character. And I am a consumer of all things business. I've created my, you know, I don't have a business degree. I have an elementary teaching degree. So I have learned business through observation and through personal and professional development. And so I, I have, every time I find a hole, I fill it. And what I was looking for in Brand Builders was I knew that you guys knew business. I knew I had created a good business, but in order to grow it beyond $1 million, I needed my team to know what I had done.

Mm-hmm.

And I needed to see if there were any holes in order to scale the business. So I was going through Brand Builders so quickly because I was already, I had already done those stages personally. I was looking to see if I had any holes that needed to be refined, and we did find some and refine them. But also, I put my sister through the program with me because she was my second in command at the time, and she does have a business marketing degree, but not in online business. And so it filled in a lot of the holes that she didn't understand about online business marketing, building a personal brand, all of that. And I do that over and over again. When I enroll in something, I enroll my key leadership in it. Because I know how to grow this part of the business, but I am bottlenecked if my leadership doesn't know how to build it. So back in the day, you could do it in 2-day in-persons and there were like 4 stages, or you could do those online, uh, one-on-one, more expensive when you do it online one-on-one. So I did 2 of them online one-on-one. I did the 3rd in-person 2-day. It was the last one you had before everything shut down. I remember we all had gloves on.

Yeah.

Because we knew things were going on with COVID but we don't know what— we didn't know what it was. Like, it's hilarious that we all sat at the same tables but used gloves when we were eating. Do you remember that? The black— no, black— the black gloves. I was like, okay, we put the black gloves on now. Uh, but we all didn't know. There was like end of February, maybe early March when I came for that one. So that was my stage 3. Um, what is it like now? Like, if people are coming to Brain Builders now to go through that, what does it look like now?

Yeah, I would say some things are the same and some things have clearly naturally evolved.

Right. That's why I'm telling— asking.

Yes. I think one of the things that has stayed true and probably what is the through line for our business and what we try to help other people create as the through line for their businesses is creating true thought leadership. And I think this is specifically important for solopreneurs and entrepreneurs where a lot of the business is built around the individual because at some point you don't want to be the center of the business, right? You don't wanna be the bottleneck. And what we have found is that the best way to do that is to make any business not about a personality, but to make it about the process, make it about the methodology, right? Make it about the content. Now that doesn't mean that the personal brand isn't still the face of the business. That's where the trust is. But like even with Rory and I, it's like we've always just been the lead generators for the process, for the methodology. You don't need us.

Yeah.

You need the methodology. And so the 4 stages that you talked about, right? So phase 1 is branding, phase 2 is marketing, phase 3 is selling, Phase 4 is scaling. And each one of those stages has 3 different curriculum. And so there's 12 curriculum in all to go from what we say 0 to 8 figures. And they go in order. And I think a lot of people don't like to go in order. They wanna expedite the process. But they go in order on purpose because what we believe is that any successful business or personal brand has to start with a deep, strong foundation.

Mm-hmm.

And if that is shaky, if it's weak, and i.e., the strategy part, it's the unsexy part. It's the part nobody sees. It's the part that you don't get the immediate gratification of seeing visuals or fonts or typography or colors of our website. Uh, but it's the work that's necessary that allows everything else to be built upon it. And so we still start there and it doesn't matter to us if you are, you know, you've been a stay-at-home mom for the last 20 years and you're back in the workforce and this is the first thing you're doing, or you're an Ed Mylett or Lewis Howes Or someone who is a household name, it does not matter. Everyone starts there because it's the work that most often people have skipped, they did not complete, or they have not revisited it in a very long time. And as you mentioned earlier, over the course of years or decades, you have changed, your audience has changed, your products has changed, your, your own personal beliefs and values have grown as you have grown, and that requires a constant revisiting and a repositioning. To allow your business and your brand to grow with you as you grow as a person. And so we all kind of start there. But to work with us, it's, I'd say, still kind of similar. We've evolved into— there's 2 main ways that you can work with us. Our flagship program is our membership, and we call it a membership because it's an all-access pass to every single thing we do. You get all of our, you know, on-demand course content. You get access to every single live event that we offer. We have more than 36 live events every single year. We do 16 in person. The rest are virtual and online. So you kind of get a good mix of what's your learning preference. We have more than 10 live group coaching calls every single month. We have member meetups, we have networking sessions, content calls.

Wow.

Q&A calls. We have a fi— a private, a very vibrant private Facebook group. We have a mobile app for on-demand learning and everything that you would need. And on top of all of that, you get a one-on-one strategist that you work with every single month as your guide, as the person to keep you in between the guardrails, ask questions, get feedback, but most importantly, allow you to know where to go next. And I think that's what a lot of people, they wanna go out of order and they wanna skip the steps. And this person is going, let's pull you back in, back onto this path that we agreed on. And so that's our flagship program. And our own community has given us this tagline of, We came for the content.

Mm-hmm.

But we stay for the community.

Yeah.

And if you were to ask me what I'm most proud of today about Brand Builders Group, it's our community. It's our team. And it's the community we call our, our, you know, people that we work with, mission-driven messengers. Yeah. And, uh, these are the people who are going, I wanna make money, I wanna grow revenues, I wanna make more income, but I wanna do it as a byproduct of doing something that really matters. to me, something that I feel uniquely called to do that helps the world be a better place. And because of that, then I will make more money. And so that's— it's a unique profile of person. We're not for everyone. Not everyone is for us, but we feel so proud of this awesome group of people who I just really believe are making ripple effects of good all across the world. So that's kind of our signature program because it's the all-access pass to every single thing we do. And then there's another category of person who's going, but I need to do it faster. I want to do it faster.

See, I wonder which category I'm in.

And for those people, right, who are trying to hit, you know, the gas pedal, hit the accelerator on yes. And I'd say there's a lot of people like that because they have an impending deadline or they're coming up against a launch. It could be a book launch, it could be a business launch. They're bringing on new team members, they're trying to get people up to speed. There's a variety of factors that go, hey, there's a pending deadline here. Or it's somebody who just knows those, I don't do well in a group environment. I, I, I need one-on-one special attention. Um, and so for those, we do these 2-day intensives and we take 2 of our team members and 1 client. And what would take you maybe 3 months in the membership, we do it in 2 days.

Yeah, baby, let's go. Hi, come here, Rory. So, um, it was interesting. In one of those 2-day intensives, Rory stepped into mine. I think it was for a level 3. I can't remember what it was, but he stepped in and we were looking at like everything I offer. And, you know, you see Organize 365 as an organization company. And he was the first one to say all the way back in 2020, you're a planning company. He said, the thing that you do that is repeatable, that people will continue to grow and learn from, is planning. And every time we internally strategize about what we're doing, there are a couple of key members that go, planning day. It's all planning day. But you can't really get the value out of planning day until you have the organizational Just like you said, in order, you need to have the Sunday Basket, then you need to have the Productive Home Solution, and then you really reap the benefits of Planning Day. Can you do Planning Day first?

Yeah.

I mean, planning is always going to give you benefits, but if you're planning and putting out fires, it's not as strategic as if you have everything set and then you plan and you really run on that train track that we have for you. So, yeah, but he was the one that, that said, this is your, your planning company. You're a planning house.

Well, I love that. And, you know, one of the things that I would say too is As I reflect on like even how, you know, having an outsider have some of the perspective of, okay, you see it this way, but really it's that, right? There's a power in just having somebody come in with fresh eyes who's unbiased to look at that. And one of the things that I think has helped us grow as fast as we have at Brand Builders Group is we, as we have been so dependent on our community and our clients to give us the feedback we have, everything that we have added, deleted, Changed. Everything has been from customer feedback. It's been relentless about what did you like? What didn't you like? What are you asking? What, what are you asking for that we can give? And there's lots of things that our clients ask for that we're like, that's just not us. That's not what we feel called to do. But as we have grown and evolved, it's not because it was our idea.

It's right.

Exactly. Community's idea that we were just eager enough to get the feedback and humble enough to take the feedback and use it. And I think that for most businesses, it's like, and I know, I know this because of all the clients we work with, they sit in these rooms and they're trying to fix all these problems by themselves. And as often as I ask, what have your clients said? What do your customers have to say about that? They go, I don't know. I'm like, have you asked them? And it's so often the answer is, No, why would I ask them? And I think it's kind of back to they will have the answers. They know what works, they know what they want. And that doesn't mean you do all of it, but it certainly gives you their perspective to help you shift and grow in a way that feels in alignment to you, but also serves them in the deepest way.

Well, and when you do that, when you ask their opinion, I mean, you could say no. I mean, sometimes like, I'm not doing anything digital in my company. They want me to. I'm like, oh no, we're not. And like, I'll refer them out. Just like you will. But I think it is, it is harder to grow a company that has a strong community like that because you do need to have a customer service. You need to be responsive. You need to give responses to all that feedback that you get. However, in my observation, companies that are still growing and thriving in the last 18 months have a vibrant community. And if you don't, those companies are going out of business because it's no, we're no longer in an age where you need information.

Yeah.

We are in an age where you need to have focus. Like, you're giving focus, I'm giving focus on how they actually achieve the goal. If it was just information, everybody would be organized, everyone would have a multimillion-dollar business. But it's not information. It is the right information at the right time with the motivation and the encouragement to actually take the next step in fear so that you can continue to grow and evolve as a person professionally and personally. And that it, it all comes back to Not only the leader of the company, but all the other people that are achieving that same transformation at the same time as the economy is changing and the world is changing and everything is changing. Like, it's real-time changing all the time. And so once you're in one of those safe— and you're saying a, a strong, positive Facebook community— to have a positive community is like a Herculean effort. We also have one. And once you've built one, it takes a long time. It costs a lot of money. It's not an immediate return on investment, but once you have a positive community, they are unstoppable and they inspire you every day to be better in your uniqueness because they're watching you. They're waiting for you to help them with their transformation. I mean, it is so awesome, but it's really hard to do.

It is. And it's interesting, like, one of the signature topics that we talk about in our new book, Wealthy and Well Known, is that people don't pay for information. They pay for organization and application of that information. And that's true with us. It's like you could go learn about personal branding, right? Go to ChatGPT, go to the internet, go to podcasts, go to blogs, go to social, go to TikTok, go wherever you want, go to YouTube. You can learn a lot, but it's not organized.

Right.

And it doesn't teach you necessarily how to apply it. So one of our philosophies is we give away the what for free. But we charge for the how.

Yes. Okay. So I was— I'm holding up your book, Wealthy and Well Known, and I said, let's talk about the book. And I want you to tell me, I mean, I got it in the mail, the pre-release copy, and I was like, okay, I, I know I'm gonna promote this, but how am I gonna promote it? I sat down and I read it in 2 nights and I was like, oh my gosh, literally everything I learned in 2020 for 5 figures, I paid 5 figures, is in this book. I'm like, all the content, like, There, there's no secrets that I learned in 2020 that you didn't put. You put it all in the book, AJ. It's all in the book. First of all, if you don't have the book, you should go get it because it's all in the book if you want to know all the information. But why did you do that? What most people say, oh my gosh, you can't put everything in the book.

Yeah, a lot of people do say that.

And yeah, they do.

And I do believe those books don't last.

I agree.

So I think there's, uh, there's 2 different types of books in the world.

Mm-hmm.

And I believe that there are some books that are, I'll just say, lead magnets in a, I'm gonna give you just enough, just enough for you to come get more. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm no judgment, no shade. But there are those types of books where it's, it's the beginning of a conversation. It's sometimes even a hypothesis versus a conclusion, but it's the beginning. A lot of books could have been a blog article, truly.

Oh my gosh, I get to the end and I'm like, but where's the actual plan?

And again, got lots of different types of books, lots of different types of purposes. But then there's another type of book where— and I just— our philosophy is that a book should always be a conclusion, not a hypothesis. And conclusions means that they are time-tested, they are tried, they are proven. There is a methodology, there's a process, there's a blueprint, there is an action plan. Because here's what we know. is that, and I just, I deeply believe this, is that the best books in the world, if you read them, if you apply them, for $25, it can change your life.

Yeah.

For $25. Now, this particular book has been 7 years in the making. We spent 6 figures on a research study. This was, you know, in some regard, this has been a lifetime in the making between all the life experience and stories and discoveries that tactically speaking, 7 years, it took us 7 years to go, what do we really have to say about this? What's the most consolidated fashion? What's backed with data? Where are the right case studies? What did we learn? What was right? And even in writing this book, we updated a lot of our frameworks because even redoing it again for ourselves, we're like, we can do it tighter now. We can do it more, I would say, expedited and how you can get there faster.

Yeah.

And the reason that we give it away all for free is because we deeply care more about this helping the reader than we do about anything else. We did not write this book for it to be a great moneymaker. I hope that it continues to sell and I hope that we make a lot of money from it, but that's not why we did it. We did it because we were like, we are writing this for our avatar, who is who we used to be. We're writing it for the person who's like, I feel this call on my life. And I don't know what to do about it. I feel stuck. I feel unseen. I feel underutilized, undervalued. I am a real expert and these non-experts are doing more, getting more attention. They're louder, they're richer.

Yeah. And yep.

Why? What am I not? And what I, we have found is that truly the best experts that we've ever encountered have been so busy honing their craft Doing the thing that they're actually good at, but they haven't spent near enough time marketing it.

Yeah.

Telling people about them, and they look up and they're confused one day, and it's like, well, there has to be a mix of both. There has to be a mix of what, what are you doing to be the expert, and then what are you doing to make sure people know about you? Because we believe that it's a disservice to be the world's best kept secret. Like, if you know you can help someone, if you know how to help and you're not telling people about it, that's a disservice. And so this was really a, you know, I think it's $26.99, so call it $27 guide of if you read this, then hopefully one of two things happens. It does actually change your life and you tell people about it. And that's, that is a whole Malcolm Gladwell philosophy. We wanna cross the tipping point, so let's give it all away for free. You don't have to pay for any of it. And then hope number 2 is if you're reading all of this and you're going, yes, and I want to do it with you.

Yeah.

Then it becomes a natural qualifier. It's a natural filter for people who are right for our company. Not everyone is. Some people are just going to read the book and go, that's what I needed. That's amazing. And for $27,000— for $27, you got hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars of work, research, years For less than thirty bucks, that's a good deal. But for the people who want to go, and I need more help, and I want to do it with you, leads to come into our system.

Okay, so I bought 150 copies of the book. That is not normal, and we're so grateful.

We're so grateful.

So when I launched the paper solution, I had like you know you could do book buys, and mine was like. 5 books. And a lot of people buy 5 books. I was like, give one to the library, give one to your sister. And like, I told them exactly what to do with 5 books. I was like, what the heck am I going to do with 150 books? So, um, and I thought about it. I did, I did it for a number of reasons. Number one, I wanted to support what you guys were doing. That was the primary reason. But number 2, the book is really good. Hey, gee, the book is really good. And I was like, okay, so if I was gonna give this to, who would I give it to? So I was like, okay, I'm gonna give it to my team. Because I've been through this process. Most of my team members now weren't with me in 2020, so they weren't with me at that time. So I am giving it to my team. Second, I had just done a mastermind in March. I'm doing another one in September. By the time this airs, the mastermind will be going on. I'm giving it to all those business members who are investing in themselves. And then I'm giving it to anyone in the last 10 years that I've had like a business relationship with. Like, I have purposely tried to cultivate female business owners and anyone that was a female business owner, like I sent them the book. They're all getting them this week. So these messages, because we're limited on the characters you could put in the thing. So it just says Lisa and they're like, are you the Lisa that just sent me a book? I'm like, I am. Why'd you send me a book? Because you couldn't put very much in there. So that has rekindled a lot of those relationships. But the first group that I was buying this for is the Organize 365 Certified Organizers. And here's why. So the Organize 365 Certified Organizers are all professional organizers, or they have some kind of an organization adjacent type company, and they help people do the Sunday basket and do the paper solution in a more one-on-one setting. Because I don't have all the consultants like you do in your company. I designed my company a little bit differently. But one of the things that I learned in this was Sheehan's Wall, which is Chapter 2 and Chapter 4, is what we're gonna go through for the Certified Organizers. Chapter 2 is why do most brands fail? And chapter 4 is identifying your who. And what I find is when you're all in the same industry, so all certified organizers, you want to be everything to everyone, or you want to be a version of Lisa, which you're not. Like, you're all your own uniqueness. And I believe we all have our own uniqueness. And I don't think there is competition in business. I'm weird like that. And so I'm getting all the certified organizers together and we're going to figure out what is their uniqueness, their one thing that they want to be known for, not professional organizing. And you could do paper and you could do home and you could do decluttering, all those things. No. What is your one uniqueness? And then inside of our certification, everyone become known for their uniqueness so we can refer to each other, but also then break through Sheehan's wall in their unique city for their uniqueness. Of course, they can all organize houses, they can all do paper, etc., etc. However, what is their one uniqueness? And I'm super, super excited to really give them this resource where most of them will stay, you know, solopreneur businesses. And, and, you know, you could be a solopreneur business and make, you know, $50,000, $60,000 a year and be very, very happy and healthy and never need brand builders services. But some of them will break through Sheehan's wall, and they will need to grow bigger, and they will want those kind of resources. So I'm actually using it as a blueprint for how I grew, and then continuing to feed and support my certified organizers and how they can, in partnership with Organize 365, Also be unique in the same industry. I'm so excited about it. So I wanted to let you know how it is, like, how your work is being filtered through the world, and all kinds of people are reading the book and, and learning about you that may never meet you in person but are through me. And I'm excited about that. But I also want to know— That's so cool. Yeah, yeah, thank you. For future authors— I'm writing another book, by the way— why did you do a bulk bulk book buying. I know Rory always did that cuz he was a traveling speaker and all that back of the room sales. I know I never got that part of my business off the ground. Why did you do it and what does that do for authors?

Yeah, so there are so many sides of that. Um, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna start with the end user's benefit, which would be you. So hold up the book for those of you who are watching the video and, oh, you've got the galley. Let me grab one of these.

Uh, this, because I have the other one too somewhere. I've got, I've got lots of copies, AJ.

So yes, you have 150 copies.

You have a lot.

But if you open up the book, one of the things that we did is you have these QR codes. And for all of our bulk book buyers like you, these are custom QR codes that link to you. So you become the lead source, the referrer for anyone who goes to these. And if you, and if they ever do become a Brand Builders Group client, And we pay you 10% lifetime referral fees on any of those clients. So a part of this is our philosophy that if you do it right, you can turn your customer force into your sales force.

Mm-hmm.

And we actually talk about that in the book. And so we could spend all of our marketing money on ads. We could do it on all these other digital things. And it's not that we don't, we spend it in a variety of places, But most of our marketing funds, they're actually paying our customers to spread the word for us. And that's because—

Oh my gosh. Now I have to go get one of my team members' books so I could see these QR codes. I mean, I've been a referrer for a long time and I, I mean, I just refer you. I don't do it for the referral commission. Oh, really? Now I see why it took so long for those to get sent out. I'm like, why did it take you so long for these books to get sent out?

It's because we had custom— we got custom QR codes for all of our bulk purchases because we want them to have the incentive of what's the ROI. ROI for me in this. Uh, wow. We knew that people were doing it just to help us, but we also wanted to go, what are the ways that we can keep this going way after the book launch? And that's a way to do it. And so, uh, technically anyone can, can become a referral partner of the book. Um, and I'll give you the link. You can share it with everybody.

Yeah.

And you can give away the audiobook for free. And then if somebody takes your referral link, even if you gave away the audiobook for free, You didn't even buy it. You're just sending it out. If they then request a call with our team and become a client, we'll pay you.

So, okay, that's great. That's a whole nother podcast.

Yeah, we're paying you to give away the audiobook for free. And I think, again, all of that comes back to one, it's an abundance mentality, just like what you said. Like, you're taking this and you're helping other— it's an— we don't need to have competitors. We can help each other because we all have different avatars. We're not all made to fit perfectly for everybody else. And we refer business all the time where I'm like, I love what you're doing. I don't think we can help. That's not what we do, but I know someone who can. Um, and we have people doing that for us. And so it's very much looking at, we don't have competitors. Uh, we have industry friends and it's an abundance mentality of going, I can rather pay this to big companies. I can fill the banking accounts of Meta or fill the banking accounts. of our customers. And we chose the latter because we know that to build a strong community, it requires like-minded individuals in the memberships, in the communities that I have seen that have not made it, that have not survived the test of time, is because at some point along the way, the community was no longer being filtered for how it started. And they, they And I say this lovingly, but the managers, the owners of these communities, the leaders of them chose growth, right, over the vanity.

Yeah.

And it— that takes a lot of work. And we know that when our members are the ones referring, they're already going, would you be a good fit for this community?

Yeah.

That's how our community has stayed intact is because it hasn't been built with a hard outbound sales process. It hasn't been built with hard paid ads. It's been built by our community. And so this was our way to incentivize. Yes, but also reward everyone who's willing to share the book for us today, tomorrow, next month, next year, and 10 years from now, because we're paying you to do it.

So cool. Okay, I'm going to take a little bit of a turn. This is going to be different, and I'm going to combine these 2 because we're getting close on time. Another reason why I did the book buy Maybe the main reason why I did the book buy. Well, number one, I wanted to come to your mastermind, which I'll be at in September. And if when you're listening to this, there may still be a book buy that you could do to come to the mastermind. But the reason why I wanted to come to the mastermind, because I've been to your masterminds before, like, I know you do all these events. I don't come to all of them. Why did I want to come to this one? The reason I wanted to do this one is because you and Rory are partners and you promoted this book as partners. And in your mastermind, the network that you have created are coming together as partners, and there is equal male and female representation. AJ, you never see this. You never see this. So I paid for myself and 2 of my key leadership to go a week-long conference last year. A week-long conference. I mean, 8 AM to 5 PM. Lots of people on stage speaking. Not a single female was speaking. Not a single. Maybe on a panel. They had 2 panels that had one female on each of the panels, so they each answered one question. I'm— my blood is boiling right now. There was more than 50% females in the audience. There are more than 50% females that work at this company. And yet on stage, it was a bro fest. And it— I mean, the, the jokes were for the men, the advice were for the men. I am like, my Blood is boiling right now. Women own 35% of all businesses. But here's the point that I want to make, and, and you helped me with my first research company. I've done research with the research company you did in 2021. I have since gone on to get my PhD. I'll have my PhD by the end of the year because I am going to do my own research. Congratulations.

Thank you.

I'm gonna do my own research. You guys are continuing to do research. And here's what I just Intuitively know and observationally know. Women who are female business owners run 2 businesses, period, full stop. Because every single female household manager runs a business, not only a business, the business, the business that makes the world go round.

That's right.

68% of GDP, gross domestic product, in sales in the United States is female, is household spending, mostly done by the female, as we know. The other part of GDP, government, which is also your money. Basically, women spend all the money in the world. We run the largest small business in the world, number one. And then we start businesses. It's a second business because we are running the household businesses. And when we go to start our own businesses, our secondary business, there are very few females to learn from.

Hmm.

And females need to learn differently. So at this big week-long conference, when a female was standing up asking the male, when do you hire your administrative assistant? I'm going, first, first it's housekeeper, then administrative assistant. And the speaker said, that's your 6th hire. They're like, first you hire sales, then you hire this, then you hire this, and then you hire this. And then because my wife, because my wife, because my wife. as my wife. And I'm like, I am the freaking wife.

Interesting.

And I looked and I walked out. I walked out. I almost couldn't go back in. Really great business advice. It's a great business conference. It's great business advice, but it is wrong for female business owners. Uh, ignoring the fact that females run a business and are adding a business is such a miss. And a female that does not hire household help and administrative help will If you as a female business owner hire a salesperson first, you're out of business within a month. First of all, you have to pay them. Second of all, you do not have the systems behind it to sell whatever the heck that is.

I was gonna say, you don't even know what you're selling yet. We advocate at Brain Builders, the sales is the last thing a founder outsources every single time. It is the last thing you ever outsource because you are the entire business until you—

Exactly.

Yeah, correct.

And I'm sitting here going, the solid business advice is great, but the order in which you hire, especially for a woman, is, is completely backwards. And so what I, I say to you is I'm so excited for the fact that you and Rory are true partners and that you are bringing forth other female business owners who have networks. And that is something that is so hard for me to find.

Mm-hmm.

Like if you do like Women's Presidents Organization or whatever, like it's all women. All of it isn't necessarily good. It's not. They're not. Yeah. It's so, uh, diverse kinds of businesses.

It's intentional about it. Yeah.

It's really, really hard to find. So what excites you about profitable female business owners and working with female business owners?

Yeah. Well, I mean, here's the thing that I would say, and I think there's, I think there's two, two things that are two directions I would take this in is One, one of the best groups that I've ever been a part of is my EO forum group. And I'm a part of EO, EO Nashville specifically.

Yeah.

The Entrepreneurs Organization is the second largest in the world, only behind Tokyo. So we have a different chapter than a lot of cities because we have a lot of resources. But in my forum, uh, there's— there, it was always a standard that even the men were like, we want this to be as close to 50/50. It's usually like 60/40. Male to female. But even in our chapter, we have the largest women percentage in our chapter, and it's like 30%. And so here's what I have found is that women are just less likely to invest in things like that until they have maybe a stronger connection into it. And so what I have found is that for my friends, it's like they'd rather they don't know about it because they're so busy, right? Or they're not—

They're running 2 businesses, AJ. They're running 2 businesses.

And that, that becomes a really big prohibitor of like, where am I learning from other women? Where am I learning from other men that see me in my light? Right. But it's like, because we're too busy. I made that excuse for myself. I'm like, I don't have time to see friends. I don't have like— I have kids, I have a husband, I have a business. It's like I don't have time. And that's, that's also our own limiting belief. Right. And I think that's just one thing that I just feel so fortunate in with my husband and my business partner is he's the first one to go, we're going to invest in health first. And it's like, if we, if we take less vacations, if, you know, we do less spending on, you know, ancillary things— like, even when I got fired and he resigned and our income went from a whole bunch to zero, we literally said the last thing that we will let go of is our nanny. If we have to sell our cars, which we did, uh, we had to sell our car to make payroll. Like, when I say it got serious, it got serious. It was like, she's the last, she's the last staff member to go because if she goes, I'm out.

You're gone. Yeah, I'm gone.

Yeah. So I think a lot of it is going, yeah, we will spend less here, less here, less here so that I can have a personal assistant, an EA, and a nanny. And some, some of my friends are like, you need all 3. I'm like, you dang skinny, I need all 3. I'm looking at a nanny for my grandchildren, AJ, because I mean, yes, I need all 3 and sometimes I still think I need more help. And so I think, I think there is a natural disposition with a lot of women business owners to go, I don't need help.

Yeah.

And then we suffer and we are the reason for our suffering. And so this is just an invitation and encouragement to go, we all need help. Like everybody needs help. Women, moms, wives, business owners, we need help. We're not supposed to do this life alone. We're not supposed to raise our children alone. We're not supposed to take care of our house alone. I have a wonderful husband who helps, but we don't have family nearby, right? In all other times in history when they said it takes a village, it's because it took a village and it still takes a village today. And if you don't have family nearby, sometimes that village is, is hired and that's okay. And I just, I've come to the point of like, I'm not supposed to do it alone. All right. I need help and we have an amazing support team. So I think that's just one thing that I love about profitable women business owners is going, Listen, you didn't get here by yourself. Let's be clear. It didn't happen all by yourself. So let's first acknowledge that there was help. And now let's acknowledge if you want to get to where you're going to be, you're going to need more help. It can't be all you. You can't do it all. You weren't meant to do it all. It's not going to happen. You have to get help. And I agree with you. It's like we tell people all the time, the very first— we say the very first thing you hire is you hire a housekeeper because you got to get all that stuff off and get all the mundane routine things like getting your oil checked, your tires, your dry cleaning, your laundry, the— like all of that stuff, get that off your plate so that when you're actually done working, you're not just going to your second job because that's what happens.

Then it's like you have to acknowledge the first job to get to the second job.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Otherwise you just work 24/7. I saw— where did I see this? Not too long ago. Maybe it was in a conversation with Dan Martell, but I just like, I've shared this so many times since this conversation is that the number one reason, or not the one reason, the number one threat to small businesses is that the founder just wakes up one day and they just don't wanna do it anymore. They're tired, they're burned out. And that has to be an acknowledgement from the founder of like, where, where am I rubbing up against burnout? Because then your entire team is at risk, your clients are at risk. And it's like, if you went on this venture because you had a dream and a passion, it shouldn't be dwindled out because now all you're doing is administrative tasks that you weren't supposed to be doing anyways.

Right.

That's where we have to step up and take responsibility. And I love working with women because I think a lot of us just try to do too much on our own. Yeah. And it's a permission of going, hey, if you have those excess funds, even if they're small, how do you reinvest those to buy your time back, to buy your freedom back, and to actually have a job that brings you life, not steals life from you?

Yes. And I think also I want to say, because I did not start on a professional track. I was a stay-at-home mom and slowly grew my uniqueness over time, slowly started adding help. And it took me longer. Took me longer. But, yes, I am, I am. You will get to the point if you continue to press into your uniqueness that what you are called and created to do, you will not be able to not do.

Mhmm.

And in order to fully do it, you will have, you will naturally draw to yourself people who want to do it with you. And your call— their calling is part of making your calling a bigger reality.

Mhmm.

And it, it happens more organically. So, like, you went from working to working to working, and you had all this staff. And, and I don't even have all that staff yet. And I, you know, I'm— we're about to have the second grandbaby who lives with us, and we also pay for daycare. But I'm also like, and I think we also need a nanny because I'm gonna have to pick them up from daycare at 12:30, and I, I need to work longer. So, Some of that happens organically, and you'll have seasons where you have a housekeeper and then you don't have a housekeeper. So you don't have to hire help. Yeah. Sometimes you think like, oh, I guess I can't have my uniqueness if I have to hire help. And my husband is extremely supportive. Whatever I wanna do, he says yes. But then he also goes, why are you, why are you gone tonight? I'm like, because I'm in this thing. Oh, how often is that? Like, he says yes, but then he doesn't want me to leave. So not all husbands really want you to be gone outta the house. You know, you have a unique husband, AJ. A lot of females Even if their husband is verbally supportive, when it comes to actually leaving the house and spending the money, they're like, oh, you need to spend more money? Oh, you need to leave the house again? And so I think there, there is that, you know, you wanna stay married. And a lot of women, as they achieve success, end up divorced. And so it, it is a balancing act when you're not both in the business or both aligned to, yeah, you know, walk all of those things.

Here's, I would give you 2 things on that, especially cuz we didn't start that way. Like, When I first started, uh, and Rory, when we first started investing into help, the only thing we could afford was maybe a house cleaning once a month. And my first assistant was only 10 hours a week.

Yeah, right.

And it's like, but here's what I would also say is what I hear from so many people. And I would just say this, like, forget whatever I heard from other people. How many times people have offered to help me that I said, I got it.

True.

It wasn't even paid. Right. I've had friends say, hey, I know this is a crazy business and you're in a book launch. Can I bring you guys dinner? No, it's fine. I can just do Uber Eats. We deny help that is free and available all day long. And so I would just encourage for all of us too to go, where am I denying help? Because I think I got it, or I just don't wanna ask for help or receive the help. And I just have to gut check myself all the time. And I just, and I just, I just say yes. No matter what it is, I just go, yes, I would love that. Because what I'm doing is one—

Yes, we can start saying yes, you guys. Yes first, no later.

Yeah. And it's like, here's what it is. What I have found is somebody told me the other day, they're like, when you say yes, you're allowing us to love you.

Oh.

And when you say no, I feel like I can't even help.

And it means— That's great. And I also think it's generational.

Every time from now on, I'm saying yes.

Yeah.

But then the other thing about the husband thing, here's what I would say. Rory and I started in business and we're unique in that. Not, that's not as common. We were business partners first, but we have so many friends who were spouses, then became business partners. I come from a long line of married couples. My grandparents started a business together. My mom and dad were in business together. So I kind of grew up in this. So I've seen it work. I've seen the good parts. I've seen the ugly parts. I've seen all the parts. starts. However, one of the things that I have seen that I just think, and this is a specific conversation to wives and women, is that if we don't help explain the full vision, the passion, the calling, the need, the desire, then it's hard for them to come along for the ride. And we have to stop and take the time to bring them with us. And it goes both ways. But this— I'm a woman, I'm a wife, and it's like when I say I want to do something without the, the depth of the meaning behind it, I can't expect my husband to just get it. He doesn't. He doesn't read my mind. He's not in my thoughts. And we have to go on a walk. That's our, that's our habit. And I'm like, I really need you to know the meaning behind this. And every single time I do— and this is just for my husband, don't expect this from all husbands— he's like, what can I do? And I'm like, I need you to Allow me to have this weekend, or I need to have these early mornings. And that's a partnership, but he's not gonna do it without the context and the understanding, and sometimes even the very detailed checklist of what I need in order for this thing to become a reality. And I can do that, but that's just having good, healthy, open communication. Now, don't expect every husband to be that way. Don't expect that. I'm not saying that. This has been a process for us over the last, you know, 18 years as well. And every single time that I do, and he understands I have a partner, but when I don't, there's always conflict. And so I think it's also us helping— I would say come along with us.

If you start to explain and on sentence 2 your husband says, yeah, yeah, yeah, fine, what do you need?

I'm like, back up. Let's back up and talk about that. Um, that thing, I think a lot of it is, you know, it's, it's going, no, I need you to understand what this is and why it's so important and what that's going to look like.

And there are generational differences. So a Gen X marriage is different than a millennial marriage, is different than a baby boomer marriage, is different than an alpha whatever we're in now. And so these conversations that you're having in your millennial marriage are very different than, than women are having in their Gen X 100%. Or the baby boomer marriages. And let me just tell you, they don't actually go that way, AJ. So, so I'm just saying that because, uh, and I see that a lot in organizing too. Like, how we look at our stuff is different depending on our generation, depending on how hard it was to get the stuff. It's easy for millennials to sell things and do experiences. It's much harder for baby boomers who worked so long for material possessions. Um, and so I, I'm just saying these caveats because I am a Gen X woman. And I have watched many couples like you and Rory and been like, oh, I would love to have that. That is not what I'm going to— I don't care how many conversations I have. That is not the marriage I'm going to have. But I am going to continue to push forward in my uniqueness, and I am going to pull back on the pace of my business for the health of my marriage. And I have done that. And I think that is okay too. And I think as women, we have the opportunity to do that. And so just kind of normalizing all these different ways that women do grow their businesses. along with their families. I say you have 2 businesses running your household. And if you have a business, if you are in active parenting years, that is a 3rd whole business, you guys.

Mm-hmm.

That's a 3rd whole thing. And so just, I just want to end this by acknowledging that we all are uniquely gifted and created to do something. And the more that you press into your uniqueness, it will continue to grow and to flourish and to acknowledge you're running at least 2, maybe 3 businesses. So there's a reason why you're exhausted. And when you have the time and the resources and the organization to hire help, I encourage you to Do that and start to look for other female business owners who are just a few steps ahead of you to model, because female business owners do have different needs. AJ, is there anything else you wanna add or tell us where we can get the book?

Yeah, I would just say one thing I would just say that I think is so important that you said, uh, to make sure that all the listeners, you know, heard that. It's like, it's okay to decide I'm gonna slow the growth of my business to preserve my marriage and my family. And sometimes I think we get caught up in the growth and the speed and the acceleration of things that, again, that's what I suffered from. Don't let your work become your idol, right? Yeah, it's family before work, not work before family. And so just making sure that like people are hearing that, it's like, yeah, when it comes to choosing, make the right choice.

Agree.

I think that's just really worth re-commenting on. It's like, don't, don't let it be the thing that destroys the great parts of your life and a marriage and your kids and your family and your health, uh, it's not worth it. I, I love this quote that a healthy man has 100 goals, but an unhealthy man has one, which is health, right?

Mm-hmm.

And it's like, at the end of the day, that's the priority. And it's like, I see a lot of us men and women risking our health for the business or our families or our spouses and That's just, I think that was a really poignant point of like, when it comes push to shove, make sure you make the right choice for you. All right. For you. Uh, in terms of where to get the book, you can go to the book website, wealthyandwellknown.com. Uh, you can order the book. You can also get the free audiobook. Uh, you can learn all about Brand Builders Group, but you can do all of that at our book website, which is wealthyandwellknown.com.

Great. And we'll have those links in the show notes. AJ, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm looking forward to seeing you at the mastermind in September.

Yay. Thank you so much. This is a great conversation, and I'll make sure that, Lisa, you have the very specific free audiobook link that you can share with your audience.

Great. Thank you so much.