Teacher Podcast #7 - Special Ed Off Site Deep Dive Day

Jamie, welcome back to episode 7.

Yes. Super excited about this one.

I am too. So this was when I really went off the reservation. I was like, I have no idea how we'll scale this, but we will just individually do work boxes with people. And, and ultimately, that is why Organize 365 has a certification program. We already have, you know, a handful of Former teachers certified in the Teacher Workbox and more coming that can work one-on-one with people and setting up their workboxes. But again, for this pilot, I wanted to do anything and everything I could, and I wanted to really take advantage of the opportunity that you were giving me. And since we already had determined that the special education department needed a checklist, which you went ahead and made the checklist with them, I thought when you guys came over for the paper organizing retreat, We were going to make the checklist, but you had already checked that off your list. And I was like, okay, great. What else do you guys want to talk about? Where are you still struggling? And so we were able to really deep dive into their work boxes and how to really customize them for each of their unique special education situations.

Yes. So we have, we have a wide range, and I'll just be honest, we've talked about this. We talk broad a lot just because we don't want somebody to be able to come to the school and be like, oh, you're who she's talking about, or that type of thing. So just so you know, we— and we also talk broad because every building, every situation is a little bit different. So just so you know, that's why we don't get into specifics. Kind of like that's why Lisa doesn't give you a plan by plan, because everybody's house is a little bit different. So just so you know, that's kind of why we stick to the broad. covering of it. But we do have, we have inclusion teachers, we have self-contained teachers, we have ones that are, they have self-contained classes as well as going out. So again, kind of like I alluded to in the last one, they all have a little bit different need based on the students that they're servicing, as well as, so they may service students in the classroom that they're not the teacher of record for. So it did get a little A little creative. Again, I cannot thank them enough for their openness, especially being— keeping in mind these are brand new to me teachers, as well as brand new to special ed. So they're admitting to me like, hey, I don't know what I'm doing in this.

Yeah.

Or so I really appreciated their honesty and their openness with what they were struggling with, because I think that that's a hard thing to do just as humans. to admit, hey, I'm struggling with this topic. And they were, they were a great team in the idea that they each talked about it and they each did it a little different.

Yes.

You know, the self-contained kind of did it Monday through Friday. And the, the one, she traveled almost the whole day, so she used her portable basket. So they all kind of did it a little different. And it was, It was nice to see that, and they each got to talk about it and bring up things that they would have done.

Well, and I think it speaks a lot to you as well that they would open up. I mean, just because you're mandated to do something doesn't mean you have to talk. Yes. And so they did still talk. And also, you know, just in hindsight, looking back at it and thinking back to my teaching experience, to be able to sit with a principal and a professional organizer to get yourself organized, like, You just get over yourself because you're like, okay, I have this unique opportunity. I'm just gonna take it. Yeah, we did learn a lot. We learned a lot. And I was able to just kind of sit there and do what I would have done as a professional organizer, which is, here's the, here's the issue. You're teaching these students in this environment. Here's your supplies. You have this teacher work box. Okay, now how do we modify it for you the way you learn, the way you work, the level of teaching knowledge that you have. We had some seasoned teachers, and we had some brand new teachers in that room. And so some needed more of the teacher workbox structure for the job of teaching and for special education, whereas others only really needed the teacher workbox to organize the complexity of special education. They already had other systems in place for organizing their teaching.

Yes, very much so. And I think the 2, the 2 aha moments for me through this process, as I had alluded in the, in the last one, I had, I had bought a lot of red slash pockets, because in my mind I told them, I was like, I want you to be successful. And yes, this is gonna be a large sum of money that I'm willing to put towards this, because I want every student to have a slash pocket. We had Been using file folders, but it just— it's just different. Slash pockets are just different. And so I had bought all these red slash pockets, and they had labeled them all, or whatever, however they wanted to do it. Well, the one teacher, first thing she said was, I just— I'm touching them too much. I'm touching them like I'm touching them constantly. And then the other one said, It's too much red. I can't take this much red. I look at that box and it just overwhelms me just looking at that box. And I was like, okay, these are 2 very simple things that we can address, one of which you like miraculously— I just sat there in awe like, like that just makes so much sense with— We, we label— we leveled them with frequency of intervention and communication. And then the other one that I did was I said, don't sort them alphabetical because that's how they had sorted them. I said, sort them by date. So all of your ones that are due now are in the front and so forth. So when they did that and sorted them by month, that you could literally see the, the stress levels just leave.

Yes.

Because now you no longer— now you may have to go grab Lisa's folder, you know, If, if all of a sudden there's a meeting, but for the most part, you're, you're doing them in the order that they're due. So that was, that was my implementation, but then yours was like a lot, a whole big moment that—

It's all collaboration, Jamie. It's all collaboration.

But it was so good. So good.

When I explained in the beginning the invisible work of a teacher, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, Purple, pink, so many colors. I said red was the color of IEP because as a classroom teacher, you are going to have students who qualify for IEPs, and you should have a slash pocket for each of those students so that you're always collecting what you need. Mostly because I know that when you as a classroom teacher show up in an IEP meeting, you will have all of the information you need to support the diagnosis. And the interventions and all of that. Why I want you to have a slash pocket for each student is so that you can catch them being good, so that you can catch good where that they have caught on to something or exceeded. Because once your child is identified and in the IEP system, you get a lot more meetings than typical parents do of their students. But every single one of those meetings Is addressing problems and concerns and delays, etc., etc. And if you can be the teacher in that IEP meeting that says, yes, we've addressed all these things, and I wanted to let you know, the first time that we saw Susie write a full sentence was blah, blah, blah, and I wanted to show that to you. I mean, you have just added— that parent probably doesn't hear very many positive things about their child because we're so busy trying to chip away at all the things that we've identified that need our support. And we are being evaluated on chipping away at those things that need our support. But also, this is a human child, and this is a human family, and they want to hear the good things. So I want the classroom teachers to have a place, a visible place where they're like, oh yeah, I did see, you know, Joey doing this great thing. So I'm gonna write that on an index card. So when next time I see his parents, or next time I'm in a meeting, I could say, oh, he went over and he comforted a child. Who was upset about something. And like, we can add these catching kids being good. So that's why we have it in the traditional classroom box. Now, all of the other things that are in the traditional classroom box are also in the special education teacher's box. They pretty much need 2 boxes. They need the regular teacher work box, which is going to identify the computer and the out-of-office and the meetings that they have and the money they need to be reimbursed for. They're going to need that box. But then they're going to need a completely different box for their purple. Purple is the pupil color because every single one of their students have a minimum of like 4 meetings per year. Like, there's just so much data that they need in addition to teaching because special educators also teach. They also do report cards. They also do all of the things that teachers do. So because of that, whereas if you're in a typical classroom and let's say you have 5 kids in your classroom that are on IEPs, you have 5 red slash pockets in your box. These teachers, let's say they have a caseload of 30 students, would have 30 red slash pockets. That is too much red, like you're seeing red and you're— it's too much. So, Jamie, you were right in getting each student their own slash pocket, because you do need to be able to capture what you're teaching, where you are, and then catch them doing good. However, having it all at once was overwhelming, and I saw that immediately when I was looking physically at the boxes. However, the solution was different for the different teachers. First of all, you— I loved how you said to order them in the order of their IEP. So when you have your very first education evaluation meeting, like let's say it's in February, every year in February, that's when you're going to redo your IEP meeting and redo your educational evaluation meeting every 3 years. Like that clock is set based on when you are identified. It's not like all All IEPs are due September 1st. Thank goodness. They're due at all random times throughout the year. Some kids are even identified in the summer. Like, it's due at all these different random times. So ordering the students by the date of their next IEP meeting really brings attention to whichever students are in the front of the box. Those you need to make sure you're really checking the things off your checklist. Are there any more tests you need to do? Any more catching them being good that you need? Any more observations that you need in order to really be ready for that next meeting? And it keeps your, um, your attention on the next student. And then the second thing I did was, um, I couldn't figure out initially how to not have all of the students be red because they're all special education students, and that's my color for special education students. So I thought, what would be the way to, to, um, separate out this student population for productivity while still maintaining the high level of expertise that this— that the special educators had. So I started asking specific questions, because if you have 30 students in your box, and that's just the number I'm throwing out there, if you had 30 students in your box, I don't even know how you'd get out of bed in the morning. I mean, I was just like, how do you maintain 30 students at that level of intervention for the entire week? And so that's a question I asked. I said, do all of these students require the same amount of intervention? Are you seeing them all day long, every day? How often? And then it became very apparent that some of these students were seen a couple of times a week. A lot of them were seen once a week. Some were only seen less frequently than that. Like, maybe they— I don't know. I don't know the rules, but that's how it was. And I said, okay. Well, then we can create different colors for the students based on the quantity of intervention that they need. So if they are seen, you know, every week multiple times, they're going to remain red. And then we developed other colors. So they picked a couple of extra colors. So if they were seen every other week or once a month, they became different colors. Now all of a sudden you have 30 kids in your box, but you have 3 different colors. And they're organized in order of when their next IEP meeting or intervention meeting is. Is that right, Jamie? Is that what we did?

That is, that is exactly right. And again, the stress level immediately left. And then what they did then did was they— we did end up— they have a separate box. They have a box for their IEP papers, and then they have their regular box. So when You're like, we're, we're getting close. Like you said, we're filming this in February, so they're finishing up their February IEPs. They're gonna go and put those in their IEP box, and they're going to get out the March ones, and they bring those into their regular work box. So, um, it's, it's, it ended up working very well for them.

Yeah. And as we're talking about this, like, I'm putting myself in the shoes of a superintendent or a principal who's listening to this, and they're like, oh great, now I gotta buy another box. Now I gotta buy more slash pockets, and I'm you know I'm hearing ding ding ding. You know dollar signs dollar signs dollar signs. What I would say to address that right away is the complexity of the work is not going to go away if you don't buy a second box. It's just going to get even harder. So just because you need two boxes to do a special education job and more slash pockets. I would say a special education teacher probably costs twice as much as a traditional teacher in the amount of supplies they need from Organized 365. Spending that extra money or not spending that extra money does not reduce the cognitive overload, overwhelm that those teachers have in order to implement this higher level of service that they give to the students. Like, if you're gonna go back to what is the best need of the students, these students have been identified as needing more support. They need even this extra teacher, and this extra teacher needs even more support in order to meet their individualized needs because they're all individual. Goes back to when I was teaching Montessori, teaching 18 different, um, I could— 18 different algebra lessons because I wanted to teach it at the individualized level. That's why I understand how these special education teachers are functioning, Because they're not— even if they're teaching the same lesson, they're teaching it individually, and they're being held accountable to the transformation or the assimilation of the knowledge of each student individually. Until that student acquires the knowledge, the special educator has— and is not done teaching.

Right.

And that is going to take a lot more of that special educator.

So I also, I loved the idea, and I don't think we touched on this previously with the index cards. That's also a way that the gen ed teachers can be keeping track, like you mentioned earlier. And so then they came in and their, the meetings have been more positive.

Right.

Caveat, of course, this is 2023 when we're saying this, so costs and all that, I'm not going to get into it. But keeping in mind principals and superintendents, The initial purchase is one cost. You can get these separate add-ons and they're a lot cheaper. So it's not that you have to go buy the initial purchase to get them a second box. The second box, they're standalone boxes and they even get to choose their color and they're standalone, which, believe it or not, I mean, I do have a lot of women that I work with and their colors matter to them. So like, it was a matter of Like, I took pictures of all the different portable Sunday baskets, and I'm like, which one do you want? And so they got to pick their Sunday basket. So, um, just keeping that in mind that there is a cost, but when you're buying in bulk or you're buying those types of one-offs, the, the cost is not as substantial as the initial one, because the initial one, you're getting the training and you're getting the, um, the the teacher camp in the summer, and there's just that initial reimbursement of those types of skills that they're going to get. The other one's just the cost of the, the physical product.

Yeah. And it's a sewn box. I mean, it's, it's not gonna last forever, but it's gonna last a long time.

Like, oh yeah, it's gonna—

you're not going to need to replace— I don't want— we don't have a lifetime guarantee on it, but I haven't broken any yet. I mean, it's a sewn box. It's gonna last.

Yeah.

Decades. It's gonna last a long time.

They're not carrying them around with them like that. Yes, the portable Sunday baskets that they carry around with them, but they're high quality as well. So they're not carrying them around. And for those of you that aren't familiar with the box itself, there's a big section and a smaller section. And so as things get more like— they might have started off in the small section and then they moved to the big section for this. particular box for their other box, same thing. Like, they have flexibility within that. So just keep that in mind too, that, that those things are possible. And then again, the other big thing that I'm not sure how it works in every state, but in Indiana we're able to give our professional growth points. So PGP, which is how teachers renew licenses in the state of Indiana. The school can issue those. So I was able— yes, I didn't necessarily— like, we have a reduced rate that you get paid for PD. So even when they came to this meeting on Saturday, it was not their daily rate, but there is like an hourly rate if we're going to PD outside of the day. So they got paid that. I think it was like $100. It's not, but it wasn't nothing, right? And then But then I'm able to give them PGP. So anytime they're, you know, all of my teachers, when they're logging, anytime they listen to a podcast, um, or like podcasts for home and/or school, because again, I think we've shown that throughout this entire podcast series, they go hand in hand.

Yeah.

So just because you learn something for the home doesn't mean that that can't be used at school. I think we learned that through the pandemic that home offices and school offices have a lot in common. And especially like the things that they're learning with kids, the things that I have learned through the kids program, I have then gone in and had little mini lessons with students and been like, listen, you got to do these things or you're going to be a disaster, you know? And, and I laughed with, with different things because I got the launch program like Pierce was like 2 months from going to college when I got the Launch program. So I'm pretty sure I drove him insane, like, okay, we got to go through this. Where Kennedy, I've had time to like break it down. But then those were things that I learned from dealing with my kids, and I was able to take it in and do things there. So anything that they're doing, no matter where they're learning it from, it's still PGP, and they're still able to embrace it and change things at the school level.

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I know in Ohio same thing is happening. They call them CEUs. The district is able to issue those. So yeah, this, this definitely would qualify. And if you think about like, so bringing it back to the classroom, if you think about a 4th grade teacher, 3rd grade teacher that's gonna teach long division, the first year you teach long division, you teach it one way. The second year you have a few more tools in your tool chest. The third year you go through it, you're, you're pretty adept at teaching long division, and you're like, You immediately in, in lesson 1 notice who's struggling and is going to need different interventions as you go along. The same thing happens with the teacher work box. Like everyone in education somewhere along the lines figures out how to organize all the things that are not lesson plans and grading in order to get their job done to some extent, some better than others. This is just the easy button. And once you have this, you have it, and you use it throughout your entire teaching career. So I do know another question that was brought up when we were talking about implementing this at a state level was, and I don't really have an answer for this, but maybe Jamie, you want to weigh in. And the question was, or the thought was, well, if this is a professional development thing and the teacher is going to get a physical product, this box, that has a cost associated with it, and it's going to be paid for by this specific building. And then let's say later that next year, this teacher moves to a different building or a different district. They have then taken this product that was purchased by one district or one building to another district. And I was like, I mean, my brain was like, wow, I don't even think that way. Like, I had to like think about how they were even processing this. But if you are a school board or if you're a superintendent, you probably are thinking that way. Like, if we're going to make this investment in our teacher, then do they have to pay us back for the box? Uh, does that box stay in the building when the teacher leaves? And so I just would like to address this now. This is an investment in the person, not in a physical product. So when the— everything in Organize 365 is attached to a person, it would be like saying, well, if the child attends 3rd grade in our building, they can't take the long division that they've learned here into 4th grade in a different district if their parents move or something. Like, like, it's teaching. Like, your, your teachers are going to learn something, and there's a physical product that goes with that learning and an ongoing, you know, lifelong community related to that that does not have an additional fee that goes with it. So it's not a building box. It's It's an investment in the person, which goes right along with this. They've earned professional development credits for being in this because it's part of their personal professional development, and they will take that knowledge with them. But I'm, I'm one of those people that believes like what goes around comes around and like do unto others as you'd have done unto you. Like invest in your people and you will have better people. Like you don't have to worry about if you're going to get the money for that box back. If Their life circumstance means that they are not in this building next year.

Well, and I think too, it is the training. And I understand because I had that same scenario brought up to me. And okay, so you can look at that 2 ways. You can look at it the way Lisa just said. You can also look at— like you said, Lisa, they can't suck the information back out. They could possibly keep the box. Worst case scenario, the teacher goes and buys an individual box, but they still have the training resources because it's already in their head and they already have access to it. So if you— but I mean, the thing is, is if you don't then get the next teacher the training, keeping the box isn't going to do— giving them a box without the training and the support, that's not what it's about. But there are times, you know, like when teachers leave, they Leave the stuff that the school purchased for them, you know, even pens and that kind of stuff. So I could see it going either way. But again, you're not getting back the training that they had. When I send my teachers to a training every year for whatever content they're in, if they leave, I don't go, okay, you didn't get that training. So, but if I, you know, the products that you bought or that kind of thing, especially, you know, if they've got slash pockets and that kind of thing. They— that I could see schools having them leave those behind just because they are costly. But again, thing too, if you're doing it within a district, like for us, we're in southeastern Indiana, we share teachers amongst them. So if the 3— if you get them in with If a lot of people are not moving per se to take new jobs, they're going to take a job that they are willing to drive to from where they currently live. Especially like maybe when they first start out, they're willing to move, but once they get settled or they have kids, something else is usually the cause of it.

Right.

And so if you get with the other districts or corporations near you, then yes. And again, the cost to replace the box is minimal.

Yeah, so the— as far as the purchase from Organize 365, the purchase is attached to the person's email. And at the— at our company level, we're not going to change that training to somebody else because it's already been given to that person. So that person has already received that training. So you can't reallocate training that's already been taught. See what I'm saying?

Like, Because then that's not— yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

So you're gonna be out the training either way, which the training comes with the box. So the box is part of the training.

And I understand, like, there's these things called budgets, and I also understand that for whatever reason teachers aren't part of that budget. It's all pupil-based. I understand those are constraints that somehow We need to change. But this is an investment in teachers, and I think that really, you know, if you were to do this at a building level, at a district level, at a state level, it is an investment in the transformation of the community of that district or that corporation. It is so much more than the box. Teachers are buying these boxes on their own. There's probably a teacher in your district that already has one of these. And so it's not that teachers are not already paying for this transformation for themselves. The difference is the teacher cannot make difference in building organization beyond their own personal self, or maybe their grade level, if they can get buy-in from their colleagues. Only the principal can make difference at the building level, and the superintendent at the district level, and the head of education at the state level. And once these higher level in the totem pole of people make these decisions, the communication broadens. So what I mean is there are lots of teachers that have teacher work boxes, and they are personally getting organized, and they are personally experiencing more time and better wellness. But it is not making a marked improvement on the overall amount of teachers that are not leaving the teaching industry. Jamie has been able to get all of her teachers the training that go along with this work box, and as a result, the special education department is communicating better. The special education and the traditional teachers are communicating better at a building level. They're communicating better, and this building and the superintendent are communicating better because there's so much more transparency. The work is being made visible. People are dividing and conquering the work. And no one feels like they're in isolation doing it anymore. So that is the difference when you do it as a whole group of people versus one-on-one. The one-on-one will continue to happen. It's more of an investment in, does— is this building or this district or this state vulnerable enough to be open enough to talk about the things that maybe we should change and provide support for the teachers that are, that are holding up that system at the bottom.

Well, and I think it, it even helps us, like, the parents also see that we're on the same page. Because like I said, it's, it's come in and teachers have been able to come in and they're able to communicate about their, the students that are in their rooms for IEP meetings or even just a normal parent-teacher conference. Um, they're coming together, they're all talking the same talk, they're Parents are getting the same statements across the board. So there's consistency with that. And like I said, they're, they're offering up advice that they've learned about index cards or, you know, whatever for, for the students. So the students are ultimately learning these skills as well. Maybe not to the same level that the adults are, but they're seeing it everywhere. They're, they're gonna see it more and more. As, as we keep going down this, because it's not like, yes, the pilot's done, but we're still learning things and we're still like, people have— I've, I've since second semester, which is after the true pilot was done, people have been coming up and they'll ask me questions and it lets me know that they are— they're still watching Lisa's podcasts or they're still doing these things. Because the conversations got started.

Yeah. So this all came from meeting number 1. So in the next podcast, we're going to talk about the second time I came out to the school.

Yes.