120: AGE PROOF Your MONEY and HEALTH with Jean Chatzky

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Welcome to the Earn your happy Podcast.

I'm Lori Harder, founder of The Bliss.

Project, 3 Time Fitness World champion, fitness expert and cover model, turned self love junkie, lifestyle entrepreneur and author.

Each week I'll bring you a guest.

Or a thought that will help you bust through your fears, connect to your soul and get focused and clear. Clear so you can elevate your life, business and relationships. We don't wait until we're ready for someone to tell us we're good enough. We take what we want and we anoint ourselves. Get ready to earn, own and unapologetically rock your happiness every single day. Are you with me? Here we go. Welcome back to the earn your happy podcast and I am so excited about today's guest because I have been watching her for so many years on the Today show. So I'm excited for you guys to meet Jean Chotchky. I'm sure the name is ringing a bell for many of you. She is an award winning financial journalist, she's an author, a motivational speaker, and she is the Today show financial expert. She has appeared on the View Live, Morning Joe, the Talk, and Oprah, among others. Her most recent book, age living longer without running out of money or breaking a Hip, was written with the Cleveland Clinic's Chief Wellness Officer, Dr. Michael Roizen to explain the vital connection between health and wealth. This is going to give readers all the tactics, strategies, and know how to live longer, healthier, more lucrative lives. And this is exactly what we talked about today. What is the connection between health and wealth? And she shares quite a bit of information that is shocking and it also tells you why they are linked and why people who have wealth also have health and oftentimes have health, have different forms of wealth. So I'm so excited for you to hear this episode. And let's get started. Jean, I'm so excited to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thanks for having me. I'm excited too.

Okay. I just got even more excited because I was reading through all of your stuff and I was just talking with Jean before this all about how she was from the Midwest. We kind of followed each other. She's born in Michigan. I am also born in Michigan. She moved to Wisconsin. I also moved to Wisconsin. So I feel like I'm talking to, like an old friend. It's that Midwest language. It's the best. So I would love for anyone who doesn't know your name, which if they don't, I'll be totally surprised. But for anyone that doesn't know you. If you could just share a little bit about your journey, where it started and what you're doing now.

Sure. So I came out of college all gung ho to be a journalist. Got a job at a magazine called Working Woman, which doesn't exist anymore, and figured out that what I really wanted to be was a business journalist. But I didn't exactly have the credentials or the clips for that. So I diverted a little bit. I went to cooking school, I freelanced. Eventually I ended up on Wall street where I did stock research for a couple of years and then came back and went straight through a couple of personal finance magazines, ending up on the Today show as their financial editor in the midst of it all and writing some books along the way. And I've been covering personal finance for the Today show now for about 22 years.

I love that. And you guys, that's literally when I jumped on this interview with her, I was like, I have been listening to you for so many years. This is so exciting. So what has been your favorite part about that job? What's been the most eye opening part of that experience?

You know what I love so much about all of my jobs and the fact that I have a lot of jobs is the mix of it. I still have my best days when I'm reporting, believe it or not. I still love to sit on the phone and talk to somebody in an ivory tower who's done a cool new piece of research that can be applied to help real people in their real financial lives. The day for that, those kind of days just fly by for me. But I like that I work so many different places that I can put the information into different formats. So I might be able to put it on the radio or I might be able to put it on television, or I might be able to write about it. And for me, that's really freeing and exciting.

I love that. So what are some of the top questions, like the main topics that you seem to get asked over and over again? Are there like the top three that you get asked?

Yeah, absolutely. Student loan debt is probably number one right now. Caring for older parents, but also caring for ourselves as we get older. I get a ton of questions about long term care, insurance and whether or not we should buy it. Finding somebody to help you with your money is a big one. And I get a lot of what I call either or questions. Should I pay down my mortgage or pay off my credit card? Should I pay off my credit cards or put more money into my 401k like trade off kinds of questions.

So even before those, do you ever feel just because I talked to so many different people also, you know, being a business owner and having a few different businesses that just like the very first thing is their ideals and ideas and thoughts and feelings around money. And I'm sure that you see that all of the time. What are, do you have any, you know, that you're finding maybe ways to really bust through limiting beliefs? And what are some of those top limiting beliefs?

I think limiting beliefs come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. Some of us don't believe we deserve it. Some of us are afraid to dive into it because we think it's too confusing. Even though once you dive in and handle the stuff that's not rocket science, you've got it about 99% of the way. There a lot of stress around financial issues of all sorts. And when things are stressful, we tend to put our heads in the sand and that's completely the wrong thing to do where finance is concerned. And my, my philosophy tends to be just do one thing, just do one thing. And usually for me, in my own life, the thing that has brought along confidence and independence is just saving a little bit more. And the doing of one thing is really empowering because it's very motivating. When you then go and visit that savings account, if you decided to save a little bit more money and you realize, hey, I can do this, I am a saver. You've already kicked it. And so then it's just a matter of doing a little bit more or fine tuning it, or focusing it in one direction or another. I often, I'm talking to a large group of women where the topic of investing will come up. And you know, a lot of women are very unconfident when it comes to their ability to be investors. And I always ask, well, how many of you have 401k retirement accounts or IRAs, and inevitably the hands in the room go up and more hands than not. And my point is always, well, you're, you're doing it, you're, you are an investor, you just have to own it.

Okay, are there any mantras that you say in your head around owning it? Like when you have to make a decision or you know, something that you do and you have to make a decision that you don't feel, feel sure of? Because obviously that's what we're kind of all afraid of is this is unfamiliar territory. What if I lose it? What happens? Like, of course these things can happen, but how do you go into it feeling more confident.

Okay, so my top two mantras are control what you can control, because you can't control everything. And particularly in the world of money, you can't control everything. You can't control where the market's going to go. You can't control where interest rates are going to go. You can't control what sort of fees other people are going to try to charge you. But you can control whether you pay those fees or you go in search of something better. You. You can control how much you decide to put into your savings accounts and how you decide to prioritize your financial life. So I try to focus on controlling the things that I can control, letting go of those other things and realizing that if I do the things that are within my control, it'll all be okay in the end. And the other mantra that makes me feel better on a regular basis is that you can solve almost any financial problem by saving more. And it doesn't have to be a lot more. It can be a little bit more. And that gets me going.

So what about the people who feel like they don't have money to save? What do you think is good advice for them as far as maybe supplemental income coming in?

First of all, I would say look at what you've got. I understand that people don't feel that they have money to save, but I often think it's because they're not prioritizing saving. And that's not a criticism. It's just. Just a little bit of a challenge. If you've never gone through the exercise of really writing down where every penny is going for a good week or two, then you don't know where your money's going. And until you do that, you can't tell me that you've got no money to save, because I guarantee you, if I did it for you, I would find some. And I've done this with so many people where I've just sat down with them and looked at line by line by line by line. There's always a little bit of wiggle room. And once you find that first little bit, it becomes more. But I also think, focusing on the other side of the equation, as you said, the ancillary income is really, really important. And right now we have the ability to earn additional money like no generation that any ever came before us. But I think you think about what you're good at, what time you've got available to do this extra work, whatever it is, and if it's not something where you have additional time. Well, what other capacity do you have that you could then make money using? Do you have an extra room in your house that you could rent out on Airbnb? Do you have things that you could sell that you're not using to bring in extra income? It doesn't have to be time, but you know, focus on what it is that you're good at. When I when I came out of school and I was working at a, at a magazine making very, very little money, I thought about what I was good at and I was good at math. In high school, I got a side gig teaching and tutoring SATs on the weekend that paid as much if not more as my regular job just because the hourly rate was so much higher. Yes.

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So how about the people? Whether we are making really great money and we want to start investing or whether we are scared of our finances and we don't know where to start, how do we figure out what the most pressing issue is?

The most pressing issue is the one that you're thinking about. And you know, so many people are worried about money. When you look at the things that are stressing people out, many of them are related to finance. So what's keeping you up at night? Is it credit card debt? Is it student loan debt? Is it the fact that you're not saving anything? Is it the fact that you're getting older, you're nearing your 30th birthday or your 40th birthday and you don't think you've started yet. You know, think about what is that thing that just is nibbling at the back of your mind. I would say if you, if you don't, if you truly don't have an issue like that, an emergency cushion, focusing on just building a stash of a few thousand dollars can solve a world of problems. And you should have that if you don't have anything else.

Okay, so we have majority of our listeners are all women, a lot of business women, a lot of people who want to start businesses. And one of the biggest things that I find that People ask me is how I broke through blocks around money. Because, you know, I'm from the Midwest. I was completely raised in a way that was like. And I was very religious. Like, raised in a very religious family. It was like, money's the root of all evil. And I carried that around for a very long time, and it really blocked me from making money. And as soon as I broke through that, it was like, wow, unlimited. Just ideas and also creative ways to create money.

So.

So what is something that you help women disassociate fear and shame around? Earning what they're worth?

I don't think that you. I'm gonna. I'm trying to figure out exactly how to phrase this. Cause I totally get what you're saying, Lori. And I've had it as well. I mean, growing up in the Midwest, where nobody talks about this stuff, I broke through talking about this stuff because I had to talk about it for a living. You know, I was. As a. As a financial journalist, it was my job to ask all the questions that I really wanted to know the answers to. And that was helpful. And yet I still, for many, many years, had trouble asking for more money for me. I mean, women can. We can negotiate for anything. We can ask for anything for our kids. We can ask for anything for our companies or our spouses. But when it's for money for us, it's really, really hard. And so a couple of things that I did to get through it, because I run a small business, too. I'm more of an entrepreneur, I think, than I ever expected to be. And I have to, on a regular basis, negotiate for my rate when it comes to making a speech or. Or writing an article or things like that. And so I practiced. And I know that sounds kind of silly, but before I went on the Today show the first time, I practiced a ton. I literally wrote it out longhand, and then I condensed it and I made it shorter, and I said it over and over and over until it felt more comfortable to me. And I did the same thing when I was starting to negotiate for more money on my own behalf. The other thing to do is really to share information with your friends and just start talking about it with your friends. Because if you can talk about it with one person, it becomes easier to talk about it with the next person. So find a friendly audience and bounce it back and forth and let them play devil's advocate with you. But you kind of have to just. It's very Nike. You kind of have to just do it until it gets easier that you.

Say that, like, practicing on, you know, whether it's in a notebook or with different people. It's like, we should start, like a negotiating workshop. You just go in and, like, practice negotiating all day. Seriously. Because it really is. It's like once you've done it and you talk about it just feels so much easier. You're like, okay, I can do this. It's just because we haven't done it. Right.

That's right. And you should, you know, you should know what you're asking for. I had a guest on my podcast, which is called Her Money. Meredith Rollins, who is the editor of Redbook magazine. She was fabulous. But she said one of the things that she did was when she left her last job, she sat down with the woman who would be taking her place and told her how much she was making, said, you should be asking for at least this much. And it was really empowering for. I mean, it was like a public service announcement, you know, it was really empowering for the woman who would be taking her job. It helped her earn more, but it also gave her the feeling that, hey, she should pay it forward when it came time for her to get promoted.

I love that. And that actually just reminded me of different points in my life where before I didn't even ask or do the research. And I love that, you know, you've been forced to ask these questions because of what you do, and now you're teaching it because, you know, I just literally, for a book proposal, I had no idea how much was normal. I went and I asked and I asked and I asked and I asked. So I knew what the range was and what I felt good with of what to expect and ask for. So that's so brilliant. Just asking and then trying it on and asking and trying it on. It's just like anything else. So I want to talk about your new book. And I love that you've been using this theme throughout our chat has been, you know, just small things and trying it and doing one thing at a time. And that's just like health, which I think a lot has to do with your new book. Right. Age Proof. So what is that all about? And can you tell us why now?

Sure. So, Age Proof. The subtitle is Living Longer without Running out of Money or Breaking a Hip. That's because. That's because the biggest fears that people have as they get older and we're all going to live a lot longer than we ever expected to live, the biggest fears are that we're going to run out of money or that we're going to fall and break a hip and die. And so I got together with a doctor named Mike Roizen, who's the chief of wellness at the Cleveland Clinic. And we found eight areas where you can use the same strategies to get your health act together as you can to get your financial act together. And so we put our heads together and wrote this book and it's doing well. So I'm excited about it.

Can you share some of your top strategies with us?

Sure. So one of the sections, and we've got sections on science and the science of these different eight areas. One of the sections is on the science of teamwork and why both your health and your money shouldn't be something that you try to do all by yourself. And it doesn't mean that you have to go out and hire a slew of professionals. Of course, when it comes to your health, you want a doctor that you really trust. When it comes to your finances, you may or may not want a financial advisor that you have, but everybody should have an accountability buddy. Everybody should have that one person in their life for both health and finance that just keeps them honest and on track, who you can tell what you're trying to accomplish and who will keep you moving towards your goals. Automation is another section that we look at. You know, human beings are not wired to be particularly good at managing their health or their money. We're too inclined to reach for the credit card, to buy something we want to buy, or for the bag of M and Ms. That's in the cabinet staring at me from across the room. And we need strategies to help us do the right thing, not just once, but over and over and over and over and over again. And so when it comes to your money, automatic saving is one of those things that we know can just you set it and you forget it. But you can do the same for rebalancing of your investment accounts. And when it comes, and by the way, I know you know, you've been saying a lot of your listeners are self employed and have their own businesses. If you've got your own business and nobody's doing the retirement account for you, nobody's setting it up for you, this automatic saving is even more important. You just, you've got to do it for yourself so that the money goes into a, a Roth IRA or a SEP IRA or a Solo 401k or some other account where it can grow for you. We tend to think we're just going to put all of our money back into our businesses, and it's a really, really bad decision. We got to put it aside for our future, too. But you can also automate when it comes to your food choices. I've picked two or three things that I know are really good for me, but that I also really happen to like. And I just reach for those two or three things every single time I'm reaching for breakfast or for lunch. And then when it comes to dinner, I'll make an actual decision. But it makes my day a lot easier.

Oh, my gosh. I was just talking about this because I was looking at all of these incredible speakers, and I just went to Tony Robbins event, and I'm like, he literally automates his outfits. Like, so many people are like, I'm wearing the same thing because I don't want to think about it. I'll make my. You know, I'll use my energy on other decisions. That's. That's awesome.

So true. I learned that lesson really early from a woman at the Today show who was always fabulously dressed. But I don't think I realized until I had worked with her for, like, three years that she was always fabulously dressed in the same thing. You know, black, black top, pearls, big pearl. Like, she just. She always looked amazing, but she never had to choose, and it was so much easier.

My gosh, I love that. I cannot wait to read about it in your book, because as you're saying it, I'm noticing all of the places in my life that I do it, and it's just. It's like, if you can, you know, make that something you don't think about to reserve that energy on all of the other important things.

Yeah, just think about your keys. Right? I mean, I automatically. When I come into the garage in from the garage, I automatically put my keys in the same drawer. I've done it since I've lived in this house. I never have to look for my keys. It makes, you know, it makes my life much easier.

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Did does so have you found links between people who are healthy and what their bank accounts look like?

Yep, absolutely. In both directions. Interestingly, I did a program for Oprah a few years ago called the Debt Diet where we put people on a debt diet. This was when Oprah still had her show and we put people on a very strict, you know, reduce your spending, repay your debt kind of program because otherwise they were going to be in huge trouble. They all lost weight. They lost actual weight because they were becoming more conscious and Paying attention to it. And that's, that's kind of what happens. When you become better at building whatever kind of habits you're trying to build, you figure out that it is easier to adopt that next habit. But from a more macro point of view, if you look at life in general, most of our healthcare spending, and this is just as a country, more than 80% of our healthcare spending goes to take care of chronic diseases, things like diabetes and asthma and osteoporosis and other things. And if you can focus on getting healthier by just eating healthier, moving around, you can't sit on the couch all day. You got to get up and exercise or do your steps, reducing toxins, particularly cigarette smoke, and reducing stress. If you can do those four things, the chances that you get a chronic disease go way, way, way down. And then you have all that extra money that you can put to use in your life, your financial life, your future, whatever you want to do with it.

So I noticed a lot on your website. You talked about giving back as well as one of your philosophies. What do you think that that does? Focusing on giving back with your money, Even if you don't have a lot of money to give back in the.

Beginning, you don't have to give back with money, by the way. You can give back with time, you can give back with wisdom, you can give back with experience. There's so many other things that you can do to give back. But giving back, it makes us feel a lot better. It makes us feel happier and healthier. It reduces the amount of stress that we're carrying around. It really does something for your psyche that is very, very difficult to replicate in any other way. And I also like the idea of giving back, of gratitude, of thinking about things in your life that you are grateful for as real gifts because it forces you to. You know, you may. You may hate your job, but if you think of it as a gift, you start to figure out what life would be like if you didn't have it. And that can make you appreciate it a lot more. And it's just, even if you want to change it up, even if you want to quit and start your own business, it's just a better way to go through your days.

Beautiful. So I know you also say, if you want to own your life, you have to own your money. So what. What do you think that looks like when you truly own your money?

It means that you're driving, you're not being driven, and you are making conscious choices about how you're going to use your resources. I think one of the things that's gotten lost is that money is really a limited resource. No matter how much you have, you have a limited amount. And you have to figure out how to allocate those resources in order to build the life that you want to build. You know, to. To bring you joy, to bring you happiness, to bring you independence and comfort, and it's all really up to you. But most people don't drive. They just go through life and spend habitually or spend without thinking about it or feel like their money is controlling them. It really isn't. As long as you can get yourself to look at it, plan what you want to do with it, you can control the outcome.

So how has money impacted your health? What have you noticed?

What have I noticed? You know, I often feel like I use money as a trade off for more time. And I use extra money to buy me extra time to do things that I want to do with the people that I want to do them. So I will use extra money to get me across the country to see my son who moved to California. I will use extra money to hire somebody to deal with the technology in my house that drives me crazy so that I don't have to spend time dealing with it because it stresses me out, it makes me unhappy, and I'd rather be doing something else. Those are sort of my trade offs. And I also have used saving as a way to reduce my own personal level of stress. I got divorced about 12 years ago. And what I found about myself personally after going through that and during that whole experience, which dragged out for a while, unfortunately, was that saving more just made me feel better. It made me feel better to just have the money in savings than to buy something and to just know that it was there for security.

It's so amazing what happens when we just feel better. Right? Like what kind of things we can create and how much more money we can make when we just feel better. I love that. So is that the same for your personal life? You've just noticed that it's been able to just buy you experiences with maybe your family or things that you want to do?

Yeah. Although I mean, some experiences. I'm not a jump out of an airplane kind of a person. I'm a go to the theater kind of a person. I'm also, I'm a little bit of a homebody. And I dug into the research on experiences because I was kind of questioning why it is that a new throw for my couch where I can Snuggle up might make me happier than some wine tasting. And what I learned from this sociologist who did a whole bunch of research into experiential spending was that you've got to figure out what type of person you are. And you may be a throw pillow person, you may be more of a nester. And in that case, anything that you do, anything that you spend your money on to improve the experience of spending time in your home will actually be money well spent.

Oh, my gosh, that's awesome.

But the best way, I think, to figure this out for individuals and you got to do it in hindsight, is to journal a little bit. When you buy something, just make a note in the moment of how it makes you feel, but then go back a week later and again a month later and make another note of how it makes you feel. And what you'll start to see is this pattern of certain expenditures really being worth it for you. They may be not worth it for anybody else, but worth it for you and others being things that you really shouldn't be using your money for.

Oh, you are making me scan my life right now. I love that. And I've never heard that before. And that just was so eye opening because I work from home, and a lot of times it's like, I picture money as, you know, buying experiences and time and things like that. But I really love really beautiful, nice furniture and being able to read a book on it. So you just opened my eyes to, like, yes, that is, like, one of the main things that I get so excited about saving for and spending money on. It's just really beautiful furniture to enjoy a book on, like.

Yeah, exactly. I'll send you a picture of my chaise.

All right.

Probably.

I'll probably want it right afterward. Okay. So what are some of the biggest lessons that money has taught you?

Hmm? Biggest lesson? Well, that you should never take a job just for the money. If you can, if you have choices. And I know sometimes we don't have choices, and you have to. You take a job because you need the paycheck. But I've a couple times in my life taken big pay cuts because I wanted to get on track to do the things that I really wanted to do. So I told you about going to Wall street, and when I worked on Wall Street, I was making twice the amount of money that I was when I decided I got to get myself back to a magazine and start writing again. And so I took a salary cut of 100%. And that was hard to do, but totally Totally worth it. And I had done the same thing when I had taken a job specifically for the money. I quit in very short order. Because if you're not doing it for the right reasons, it's never gonna. It's never going to make you happy. So do your best to align what you really want to be doing, how you really want to be spending your time with. With the money, and the money will follow. I'm a big believer in if you're doing something where you're really good at it and you're energetic about it and enthusiastic about it, and the ideas are just flowing, the money will follow.

I could not agree with that more. I mean, if I'm not happy, you can pretty much know that I'm not making money off of whatever that endeavor is for sure. So it's like you do something fun and you're like, whoa, I'm getting paid.

For this, I get paid for that. Exactly.

So amazing. So what happens when you really see a woman become right with money and get free with money and really fall in love with what she's doing? What are some of the things that you have seen really transform in different people's lives?

I see bad relationships fall by the wayside. I think all too often women stay in relationships that we shouldn't stay in for finances. And when we get honest with ourselves, we often have the ability to let those go. I see stress start to go by the wayside, and it's not necessarily because there's more money there than there was before. It's just that there's more control over whatever money there is. And that's a big deal. If you feel like you're in control of your life, like it's not going to run away from you. All of a sudden, the stress really evaporates and your happiness goes up and you just feel a lot better.

That's such a good question. I remember years and years ago asking myself, would I be around these people or would I be dating this guy if I had unlimited money? That's a really. That is a really tough question sometimes to be like, wow, that's insane. What your answers can be, because you never thought you would do certain things, and you find out that you are. So do you have exercises around that or questions that you can ask yourself to really see if you're coming from your head or your heart or, you know, following what you should be following around it?

I think that the one that you just asked is the best one. You know, would I be dating this person? Would I be with this person if I, you know, if it wasn't for resources or for money. And I think you can use that sort of a filter in many different ways. I mean, a lot of people get sucked in to scenarios to buying things just because they're on sale, right? I mean, a really good filter to ask yourself is, would I be buying this if it wasn't on sale? And if the answer is no, you shouldn't be buying it at all.

Oh my gosh, I love that.

I love that.

That is such a good question. So why are you so passionate about this? Why is it your driving force? Because I look at your website and you literally, you guys, if you have any questions around money, this woman has a book or a course or something for you to empower yourself around it. So why is it something that just lights you up?

Because I know that I'm helping people. I mean, people stop me on the street corner and they tell me that I'm helping them. And I know that I'm helping, I have helped myself by getting this portion of my life on the right track too, because it wasn't always. And so that feels, you know, that feels really good.

It's total freedom. Why do you think people underestimate the potential of what that money plays in their life?

I think we were largely raised, many of us, just not to think about it. You know, it's a very old fashioned notion not to think about it, not to talk about it, that we certainly weren't taught in school how to handle it. And when people don't talk about something, don't teach you about something, of course you're going to devalue it. You're going to think, well, what does that, what difference does it make whether I'm doing well or I'm not doing well? But of course it matters. And it matters more now than it ever has mattered for any generation. Because you know, if we look back, if we look at parents and parents and grandparents, they had pensions, they had health care forever, they had full confidence in Social Security. And we don't have any of those things. You know, it's all on us. And it's largely the, the paradigm hasn't exactly shifted, but it's shifting. And if you look at the educational trends, it's not just all on us, it's all on us women.

So before we wrap up, I just want to make sure that everybody knows where to get your book, find your book. And also just if there's anything that you really. What are the main things that you Would love to leave people with.

I would love to leave them again with the book title. It's Age Proof. Living Longer Without Running out of Money or Breaking a Hip. You can get it on Amazon. You can find information on my website, which is jeannechatsky.com But I think that your podcast listeners and my podcast listeners have an awful lot in common. And so I would love it if they would give her money a try. I think we go kind of hand in hand.

I love that we are. I am such a podcast junkie, so I'm super excited too. And my husband, actually, I would love to connect you to because he started a podcast called for the Love of Money, all about freeing people from their just different ideas around maybe shame or guilt. And I think you guys would just have a field day as well. But I love that you have a podcast all about this because I'm sure that you have tons of quick topics on how to really bust through a ton of different things that are holding people back. Do you have one particular podcast that's been super popular that you love that you've done that?

I've done. You know, we've done so many. The one that we did with Brene Brown is a favorite of mine. Gretchen Rubin's been on Arianna Huffington. We just taped with Jen Sincero. She'll be on in, in a couple of weeks. You know, I got. It's like picking a child.

I know. Oh, I'm so excited for that one with Jen too.

She just.

She did a money book. Right, as well.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

Coming out in a couple of weeks.

Okay. I cannot wait to listen to all of those. I will for sure be doing that right after this, so thank you so much. Jean and I always end with a final question, but before I do that, I just want to say say thank you so much for the work that you do in the world. And truly what you're doing is freeing so many people and making it something that is something that we should be proud of and something that really, you know, buys us time or experience or whatever that thing is that you desire more of in your life to feel fulfilled and happy. So thank you for all of the work that you do.

Right back at you.

Thank you. Okay, so final question is if you had. Or if you were getting in an elevator, you had like a 30 second ride with someone and they look over at you and they say, how do I make myself happy? What do you say?

I say, think back to when you were 11 and what did you enjoy doing when you were 11 you will enjoy doing the same thing now.

So good. Thank you so much for coming on. I so appreciate you and you guys if you love this episode as much as I did, make sure you share it. And until next time, earn your happy. Bye everyone. Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to share this episode with someone you think that would love it, that would be absolutely amazing and we would be forever grateful. Also please leave us a review if you feel so moved by going to itunes and leaving us an honest thought, an honest comment. Tell us what you think, tell us what you want to hear more of. It would really help us out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people. Until then, don't forget to earn your happy. Thanks again guys. Bye bye.