157: Why Relationships Will Never Make You Happy with Rob Mack

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Welcome to the earn your happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of The Bliss Project, 3 Time Fitness World champion, fitness expert and cover model turned self love junkie, lifestyle entrepreneur and author.

Each week I'll bring you a guest.

Or a thought that will help you bust through your fears, connect to your soul and get focused and clear so you can elevate your life, business and relationships. We don't wait until we're ready for someone to tell us we're good enough. We take what we want and we anoint ourselves, get ready to earn, own and unapologetically rock your happiness every single day. Are you with me? Here we go.

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Welcome back to the earn your happy podcast and today's episode is brought to you by my bliss habit e course. That is@theblisshabit.com it is my 12 week e course that you can do at your own rate from your own home, online, and it is a lifetime membership. So if you guys are ready to deepen your spiritual practice, bust through those blocks that have been blocking you from the next level of your life or from your authentic truth or from your happiness, whatever that that is. If you're ready to meet your tribe and feel supported, go to theblisshabit.com and I cannot wait to see you on our closed Facebook private page. So I will see you there. And on today's episode. You guys, I have a very special guest. His name is Robert Mack. He is a happiness coach, speaker and author. His work has been endorsed by Oprah and Vanessa Williams, among many other people. He has his. He's received his master's in applied positive science, psychology, an Ivy League degree held by only a few dozen people in the world. How awesome is that? And he's written a book or two books. Happiness from the inside out and the art and science of fulfillment. So, you guys, I can't wait for you to meet this guest. We talked so much about the things that we think are keeping us from happiness and we talked a lot about relationships. But I think you're going to be surprised how much our relationship talk went back to one particular thing and you have to listen in to find out because this guy has been a coach on famously single on E. As the celebrity dating and relationship coach. So it was really fun to have a conversation and just to hear his perspective on what happiness you bring into a relationship and how that looks and why it's so important. Okay, you guys, let's get started. Rob, thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm really Excited to have you on today.

I'm so excited to be here. Laurie. You have no idea.

Okay, I have seen you. You might be the only person that I've ever seen with a massive smile on your face while sprinting on a treadmill.

Yeah. You know, it's funny, I remember reading somewhere that you get more oxygen, like. Like in your body when you smile.

Yeah.

So I started doing that. And of course, the endorphins from the running themselves, like, from running itself. You know, it helps the smell. Come on. But I think even smiling produces endorphins, so, you know. Yeah, I've noticed, though, as hard as you work out, Lori, you always look like you're enjoying yourself, so I have.

To say, I am now serious. Okay, so you guys, Rob and I work out at the same gym, and we were connected through another gym friend who I call the mayor, Arian Alexander. She just, like, connects everyone.

Crazy.

It's amazing.

It's amazing. It's mind blowing. She knows everyone.

Oh, I love it. I'm always like, okay, I need to meet this person. So who's that? Let's just get this going. So anyway, I'm so excited to have you on. And yes, I truly believe in the smiling thing. I was just filming workouts yesterday and I was. I kept saying, oh, smile. You guys. Put a smile on your face. And I'm like, they're probably wondering why I'm telling them this. They're like, on the other side, like, flipping me off totally. No, for real. Like, you feel it, though. The second. Even if you're smiling right now, if you're listening and you turn your cheeks up, you're like, oh. Your body responds to that. It's like, immediately your brain sends. Well, you probably know the science behind it, right?

Yeah, it's incredible. There's a biochemical reaction that happens, but smiling produces feel good chemicals in your brain, and that affects the rest of your body. So you want to smile and laugh as much as you can. And it's always great if it's authentic, of course, but every now and then you've got to force it. That's okay, too.

Have you ever done laughing yoga where you totally force it and you do really weird things to smile?

You know, I've never done the laughing yoga, Lori, but I have done, like, laughing seminars or, like, laughing periods where we just laugh. And it's incredible because at first it does feel a little forced, but then as you look around and everybody else is laughing back at you, it becomes, like, genuinely funny. And before you Know it. You're laughing for no good reason. Which is the best kind of laughing of all.

It's always so freaking weird. At first I'm like, this is so weird. And then I'm, like, laughing because it's so weird. And then I'm the person who's like, I'm loving this because it's so weird.

So, yeah, it's like being in an adult fun house.

It is. We'll talk more about laughing yoga. It was very bizarre. And I had to do it with this mentor, well, Jack Canfield, like, in his face, doing a laughing, like, chainsaw. So, like, you had to start the chainsaw as laughter? Yes. And it was, like, to each other's face, like, a foot away. And I was like, this is. This is really, really testing my skills to let go right now.

And it's Jack Canfield. We all love and know Jack Canfield. It's a whole nother arena, you know.

So he did it first. So I was like, okay, we're free.

All right.

Okay. So, Rob, clearly we could go off on. On tangents, but I would love for you to share a bit about your story, how you got into what you're doing and what that is that you're doing right now.

Yeah, so I call myself, and I work as a happiness coach and author. And I got there the long way, I suppose, which was through unhappiness. So, I swear, if I didn't know better, I would have thought that I was born unhappy because I was happy for as long as I could possibly remember. You know, all through childhood, I had a loving family. You know, we didn't have a whole lot, but we had enough to get by. My parents were both very loving people. You know, a lot of conflict in the home, just like any family. And I was especially hard on myself. You know, I had a father and a mother who always expected and wanted the best for me, and I appreciate that so deeply. And there was a point in time where I sort of went too far with that, and I just had such high expectations for myself, and I was never able to meet them. So as well as I did academically and athletically and socially, I just never felt anything but disappointed and insecure and frustrated and just really depressed. And then as I got older and, you know, as a kid, you know, you don't have a whole lot of, like, abstract thinking ability. It's just like, what's happening in the moment and what could happen tomorrow. But as you grow older, then you start thinking about this whole proposition called life. Itself. And I just, you know, then you take philosophy classes and all these things, and they all add to it. And before long, I was, like, caught in this matrix, so to speak, where you just realize that all the things that you love in the world and all the people that you love in the world someday won't be there. And it was, like, deeply disturbing to me and deeply unsettling. You know, at the time, I was working for a management consulting firm and didn't love the work. I loved the people I worked with, but I didn't love the work. I had a fiance, and she was wonderful and beautiful and, you know, but for my life being as good as it was on the outside, I was absolutely seriously depressed on the inside. And I got to a place where I basically contemplated and seriously considered committing suicide. I started researching ways to do that, and I found, basically decided that I was going to slit my wrist. And I remember coming to that conclusion and, like, getting, like, the knife out and everything and. And sort of digging the knife in my wrist. And I still have the test marks to this day. And, you know, but something very strange happened at that moment and for no good reason, Lori. And, you know, I'm understanding it more and more these days, but at the time, I just felt complete peace and relief. And for. No, nothing changed in my life. Like, it wasn't like, all of a sudden I have all this money, or all of a sudden I had, you know, I was able to be the professional basketball player that I wanted to be when I was younger or that suddenly, you know, I was experiencing all this tremendous and outstanding success or it wasn't anything like that. Nothing changed on the outside, but something on the inside shifted. And so at that moment that I experienced a little bit of peace as I thought about death. It was just so ironic and sort of counterintuitive. I decided to put off suicide for just at least a couple hours, you know, in the beginning. And then I said, I can put it off for an hour and just kind of look more deeply and see what's going on here. Like, why am I feeling all this peace and feeling completely okay when nothing's changed? And then after sort of hour became a day, and a day became a week. And then before long, you know, I was digging myself out of this hole or I was being dug out of this hole. Don't know if I want to take complete credit for that because something intervened. So, yeah, that was my story. And so over time, I decided I wanted to share this experience with other people. So, you know, I started just keeping notes of things that I'd learned on my own and eventually went back to school and got a master's in Applied Positive Psychology at Penn, which is a program that's focused on the science of happiness and well being and how it relates to success. So yeah, that's kind of where I am today. Of course I talk to a lot of people about dating relationships because most people that come to my practice for happiness, most people don't say, hey, I'm miserable, I need help being happy. Most people say my husband or I can't find the right, you know, I can't find any available and interesting or beautiful women out there in the world that are interested in me too. Or it seems to be very relationship oriented. So before long I became known as a dating relationship coach. But I'm actually a happiness coach because whether you're in a relationship or not, whether you're single or married or not, we're all after happiness at the end of the day. I think that's the gold.

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Thank you so much for sharing that. Do you feel like when people or when people come to you and they ask for relationship advice, what do you. What is the first thing that you ask them? Are there certain things that you ask them or how do you dig into that?

What a great question, Lori. This is why you're so good at what you do. I would say the first thing for me is I ask them sort of 0 to 10, how happy are you? And generally the answer is all over the board. Some people are in a place where they are in sort of denial. Some people are much more clear about where they stand. And then the second question I often ask them is, what would take you to attend? And they'll say, if this happened or that happened. And then we begin to dig into that a little bit and help them explore some of the misconceptions and myths that we have around somebody else completing us or somebody else making us happy. You know, it's one of those things that we all say that we know, like, hey, nobody else can make us happy, let's make ourselves happy. But very few of us actually live that out. You know, we don't actually always apply that understanding. And so I try to get people to understand that happiness is something that you take with you into a relationship and the other person can enhance your happiness, they can encourage you to be happy. But at the end of the day, your happiness is your job, it's not anybody else's. And if you come from that perspective, then every relationship can be fulfilling, every relationship can add to your happiness and no relationship can take it away and take anything away from that happiness, if that makes sense. So you're self complete already. That's kind of where we work.

I love that. So I was kind of just looking at all of your stuff, doing all my research today, which was super fun because this is absolutely a topic, you know, that I love. And on your website it was just talking about the science that science says that only 10% of happiness comes from external things. And I thought, do you know, it's just a relationship is kind of just another thing. So it's kind of like if someone comes to you and they think that a house is going to bring them happiness and it's the same exact thing you're dealing with, that they think a man is going to bring them happiness or a female is going to bring them happiness and then they have this expectation that I'm sure always falls flat.

Absolutely.

Do you find, Are you, how do you manage expectations with people who have super high expectations?

Wow, great question. So I was one of those people.

Yes, I've been there.

Right? Yeah. And you know, the truth is this, when I first started my coaching work, I was under the impression that it was my job to I guess get people there, helping them realize that look, no matter how what expectations you have at the end of the day, if you're not happy, you know, nothing else matters. And so one of the things I've come to realize over time is that usually, not usually always, life has a way of teaching you sort of, you know, both the use, so the blessing and the curse in expectations. Expectations are great to have and you want to be able to, you know, reach, have high goals and have great dreams and sort of strive for those things. But at the end of the day, expectations are problematic to the extent that you're putting your happiness or resting your happiness on something that's in the future for one and something that, and also something that depends on someone else or something else other than yourself. So my experience for most and the Sort of coaching that I do is helping people to remember that if you want to be happy, the only chance and opportunity you have to be happy is right now, in this present moment. If you put off happiness for even one more moment or one more day, the same mindset that puts it off today for tomorrow or today for next week, you will take with you into the future. So when tomorrow comes or the next moment comes, you'll still have this like, you know, I'll find happiness if I only accomplish A, B, C, or D. And so I try to help people remember that happiness is something that is in your hands now, in this very moment. And the future isn't going to present a better opportunity for you to be happy, despite what you may believe. So your expectations are really about some future moment that you think you have a lot of control over. But if you're not even controlling this one present moment now, you're not putting yourself in a position to control the future moments that are on their way. Right. So it's always about helping people realize that, in addition, you're much more likely to accomplish any of the things that you have sort of plan for yourself in the future, any of those goals, any of those expectations you have, you're much more likely to achieve those and achieve them in a much more enjoyable and effortless and easy way if you're enjoying your present moment. Now, we found science proves that. My own life experience proves that, and the experience of my clients also proves that to be true.

I love that. And, you know, even your beginning story, you kind of shared what that moment to moment bridge to the next step of happiness looks like. But at the same time, what. So, you know, because there's a lot of people who right now, they're like, okay, well, I'm with someone that I am not happy with, or I'm not with anyone. I'm in this job that I hate like my life. I can't find what to be happy about. How can. What are those first steps like that, that first baby step just to get somebody to elevate from where they are.

Yeah, I love that, you know, so one of the exercises I do with clients is we're just called happiness Islands. And the idea is simply to look at your own life, because I believe that life is the best teacher of all. You know, you and I are teachers, and we learn from life, and we can all learn from our own lives, right? So it's important to learn from your own life. And so I help people identify their happiness islands. Those are the Things that you do or don't do, but would like to do on a daily basis that require very little effort or energy, but allow you to feel increasingly inspired, excited, uplifted. They just. You just feel good when you're doing them. And so if you can identify your happiness islands, then what you want to do is you want to begin to moving and scheduling your life in a way that allows more of those things and activities and experiences and even those people into your life. And you want to then get rid of as many happiness valleys. Happiness valleys are those things that no matter how much effort or energy you put in, you just don't find much joy. You don't find much inspiration or excitement in them. You want to try and get those things out of your life. So we just start there with identifying the things that naturally uplift, inspire, or make you happy. That's the first place we start. And then we move on from there to other things.

So true. Sometimes those little tiny shifts, I'm like, why am I not doing this? Like, yes. Even if even when I'm typing or let's say I have to write for two hours, I'm like, how can I make this more pleasurable for myself right now? Make your favorite cup of coffee. Go turn on some Brazilian jazz. Like, the little things that you know are going to make it so much better. So do you have little happiness hacks for just your daily life? Like, what are some things that you don't go without just to kind of uplift yourself in the morning?

Yeah. So the things that I do now are a little more subtle than they were in the beginning. In the beginning, I would just. I was focusing on big things. So for me, I noticed that, like, there were some things that I just hate. So I hated my job. I hated where I lived. Okay. I wasn't happy in my relationship necessarily. Even though she was wonderful, it just wasn't a good fit. So I was very clear that these were happiness values for me. So for me, those getting those big boulders out of the way was extremely helpful in the beginning. Okay. So if you've got big, big issues like that that you're challenged with, you know, realize that the only reason you're doing that job or in that relationship is because you want to be happy. If you're not happy, then that relationship or that job is just an obstacle to your happiness, and so you can find ways to get around that. But as I moved from that, then I started noticing there were other things that didn't require as much sort of shifting in my life that I could do easily and effortlessly every day. One of those things of course is working out. Lori. Right. So that's like huge for me. Another thing is reading and I really am an avid reader. Like I'm just like a voracious reader. I love reading and I particularly love reading books about happiness or spirituality. Anything that makes me feel uplifted, it's critical, particularly when you're unhappy or you're just not feeling good about your life, to read the words and thoughts of someone who is happy or someone who's been there before. It's so important. The other thing for me is meditation. And meditation sounds like a big scary word, but it's just learning to be present moment to moment and to let your thoughts go. And the problem with really, if you want to simplify this whole unhappy thing, unhappiness is really just a mind filled with an unhappy story. Unhappy story is just thoughts. And when your mind is quiet and clear, it's impossible to be unhappy. So at the end of the day, unhappiness is just too many thoughts. It's an over analytical or an obsessive compulsive mind that's just addicted to thinking. So if you can let that go and find some quiet time to just sit and breathe, that's extremely helpful. I've also found not over scheduling myself is huge, you know. And then probably above all else, I've also found that for me, I think trust or faith, it doesn't have to be in what most people think of as God or this concept of God, but whatever it is that resonates with you. Sometimes people call it life or higher intelligence. But for me, I think my deep trust in something that knows better than me, that's in control of my life, that keeps this sort of the planets, you know, keeps the Earth rotating on its axis and revolving around the sun, keeps the sun shining, keeps my heart beating, my lungs breathing. All of that, whatever that intelligence is that keeps all of that happening, is also in control of my life. And that if I can learn to relax and prioritize happiness, that I will find increasing levels of success in material and tangible ways with time. And that that's been my experience. So that almost more than more than anything else, just reminding myself of that is very helpful in allowing me to live a much happier and more successful life. I think.

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I so resonate with so much of that. And you know when you were talking about trust and faith, it brought me Back to the idea. I. One of my former assistants who's amazing, she. I kind of got to go on a bit of a relationship journey with her as far as she was in the dating world. And I have so many freaking amazing single women and guy friends. You know, I've been. I've been married now. It'll almost be 12 years. Been with my husband for, like, 15 or 16. I don't even remember. I feel like we were, like, raised together, but we weren't. It's like, I can't really remember life before him, which is amazing. And believe me, that has been a process. Like, I can do a whole podcast on what that. What that actually looked like. I mean, there was a time where I threw chicken nuggets at his head, and that's when I ate chicken nuggets.

So that's a long time ago.

That's when I drank 40s and eight chicken nuggets so that I can never see that.

Lord.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. We'll talk. You have to hit that rock bottom.

You know, so 40s and chicken nuggets, rock bottom. I love it at the podcast.

I really do just have to tell 20 seconds of this story. We had got this. We were, like, kind of newly married. We had gone out all night long partying. We had gone to McDonald's, clearly, afterward. And we started. You know, I started. I remember starting this fight because I did not like myself, but it was like, it just. It feels good, right, to get attention. So I was, like, the queen of being able to do this. But it was only off. It was like when I would drink, but. Except we drank, like, every weekend, so it was every weekend. So it was this one fight. I remember starting it, and I feel like I started it just to throw chicken nuggets dipped in sweet and sour onto our new wall. Like, and it was. It was this memory the whole time we lived there, which was only like, a year and a half, but it was this. I threw them so high. Like, first I threw him at his head, then I threw him high that it was a stamp on our house that I couldn't get the sweet and sour sauce off. And it was this reminder of, you're a little crazy. Like, you need to. You got to stop doing that. So, anyway, I've been. We've been together for a long time. So with that said, the trust and the faith, going back to my assistant, it was like I watched how it was, like, the same pitfalls with the dating. Like, she would almost expect certain things from these people. And when they weren't there, it was this fight that she wanted to start and then it would end. It was like she'd start this fight. She couldn't get out of the fight. She would hear herself having the fight and couldn't stop it. And it was like she would break. She would break off the relationship. And there was no trust beyond. Like this person could show up different or trust in herself. So what do you say to people who seem to be. And I know that we don't want to look at ourselves first, but the same cycle over and over and over. It's my Chicken Nugget cycle.

I love it. Oh, my gosh, we gotta rename it the Chicken Nugget Cycle. Fantastic. Lori. Oh, gosh, that's great. I have so many questions about this chicken Nugget story. I have to do it in another podcast, I guess. But gosh, you know, what a great question. I mean, for me, I think it comes back to the old adage and we're all tired of probably hearing it, but it's so true. It's like you keep doing the same things, expecting different results, and at some point you have to take stock of yourself and your life and say, I've done this ten times, a thousand times. It's not working. And if it's not working, I need to try something different. So it's just that simple. I think, you know, I think without question, if any of us look at our lives, we've done so many things that don't work, and we've done them over and over and over again. And familiarity does breed liking and comfort. But the truth is that sometimes, you know, there's something. There's a much easier approach that lies just outside your comfort zone. And so you have to have an open mind and open heart about it. I think for me, to be honest, like, more than half of the work is just convincing yourself that happiness is the most important goal in your life. That if you can really come to believe that, because so many people I know don't believe, you know, they have a trouble believing that, you know, or coming to round to understanding that, that the only reason we do anything in our lives is to be happy. And if you're not happy, then everything you're doing, useless, you know, it's just useless. And it's also going about the hard way. So, like, for instance, in the positive psychology research community, you know, we talk a lot about the relationship between happiness and success. So people that are happy now, they over time end up making more money about 600 to $700,000 on average over the course of their entire lifetime. That's just on average. Some people make a lot more than that. Some people make a lot less. Happy people, as opposed to unhappy people, also live six to seven years longer. They also get married earlier, stay married longer, and are happy in the relationships whether they're married or not. And whether they throw chicken nuggets or not, they're still good, right? And in every way, happiness now makes your life better now and later. And so if you can just kind of come around to understanding that. That you deserve to be happy and that happiness isn't something that's far off, that it's something right here within your hands now. Everything else takes care of itself in time, but you really do have to prioritize your own happiness and be a little selfish about it.

I love that you said that, because it really brought me to. I'm in one of the happiest days I've been in my life. And it's truly. It's not because of anything that's happened whatsoever, because I've had a really great life for a lot of years, but it's. I'm so in tune with that idea. And I even just noticed, like, yesterday I saw something, and I really don't get hooked into this area much anymore or on social media, when you see something that bothers you and it's really rare, but something had kind of, like, poked me in the side, and I was like, oh. And I saw myself wanting to go dig in and research it and see if it was true, even though you never find out if it's true or not because it's Facebook, so. But I saw myself wanting to go down the spiral of, like, digging into this story and adding to the fire. And I wanted to, like, talk to my husband about it. And I was like, at the end of the day, all that I care about, right? Especially right now, writing a book and wanting to be like, give great content and stay in a really great place. I was like, all I care about is peace. That's it. Even if that's true, even if it was. So I go to that place of even if it was true, what am I going to do about it? And am I going to allow it to affect my life? And I was like, no, choose again, choose again, choose again, choose again. And it's just like this commitment to peace and happiness that I have. And I. I think that that's why our marriage works so well, too, is he's so committed To. At the end of the day, I'm like, do I want to have this fight? Do I care if I'm honestly right? Because it just. Sometimes I just don't care. And you have. It's like, how do we decide? Because some people are like, no. Like, this is this. I can't let this go. Like, do you see that a lot?

All the time, Lori. By the way, I always. I have this shiver test, and I said it before. I don't know if I've ever said it to you, but when I have a conversation with someone and things resonate with me, like on a soul level, I just get shivers. And this entire time you're talking, I get shivers. It happens every time I see you and your husband. Every time I see you and Chris in the gym, when we have any conversation, I'm like, ah. I get shivers because I'm like, there is something that resonates so deeply here. And what you're saying, without question. Particularly when I first started coaching. So I've been coaching for about 20 years. When I first started coaching, okay, I was constantly trying to push people to a place where I got them convinced that happiness mattered. And I realized suddenly that I was working against sort of divine timing. I was working against sort of the flow of things. And that really, life has to bring you to a place where you've suffered enough that you understand how absolutely critical it is to be happy. And so there's just no getting around that. And sometimes for some of us, you know, I think some people are lucky and they're blessed in terms of. Or fortunate in terms of having intelligence enough or enough awareness to realize that without suffering a whole lot. And then there are others of us who have to suffer a whole lot. And there's no right or wrong in that. But the truth is that you've got to come to a place in your life where you finally say, I've had it. I've suffered enough. You can be right if you want. You can have all my money, you can have anything else you want to have, but the one thing you're never going to take away again is my peace and my happiness. I don't care what else you do. So there's a point a lot of this, and as coaches, we can guide people and influence them and give them some cool tips and tricks and whatnot, but it's really life that brings you to a place where you've had enough suffering, that you're just done with it. And you say, okay, I've had enough now I'm going to be committed to peace and happiness. And if it's not fun and I can't make it fun, I'm not doing it. Relationship, a job, whatever, it doesn't matter, you know? So for me, happiness is like the highest currency, right. It's like the greatest success and it also leads to success. So if you can just prioritize the happiness and get to a place where you're clear about that, you've really gone a long way.

I love that. So what do you find? Because you probably have a lot of conversations with people who are happy as well or who get to that place or get to that place of peace. What starts working? What is working for people?

Yeah, I think life is. It's life that's working and you finally decide to go with the flow and the current of life. So you decide to start cooperating with life and things start look turning around for you. But it was always working out for you. It's just that you were fighting the current, so. Right. So for me, for instance, I hated it. I hated doing specific kinds of work. Okay? Like, I love working with executives, but I didn't want to work in corporate America per se. Like, that wasn't for me. I don't like being living in cold weather places. I don't like having conversations about, like trivial, like trivial stuff. I just don't. Or things that are, you know, small talk. I'm not real excited about that. And then as I just began to accept that and embrace, like, this is who I am, like, maybe nobody, there's not a whole lot of people who understand me, that's fine. But I'm going to start accepting myself, what I like, what I don't like, and I'm going to just embrace it and I'm going to move in the direction of things that feel like bliss. I'm just going to commit to that. So for me, it was listening to my own sense of intuition, also noticing when I was unhappy or I was suffering and moving away from things that caused me to suffer and towards things that caused me to feel more happiness and more peace. And that means being very mindful and very aware. Like what you did, Lori, was mind blowing. You said, you know what? The chicken nuggets thing was fun for a minute, kind of maybe, but I don't know if I want to do that anymore. And the drinking thing is fun for a minute, but I don't know if I feel so great afterwards. And so then you finally say, I'm not going to drink every weekend yeah, like having drinks now and then or whatever, but you begin moving in the direction of your bliss, your happiness, your peace. So that's the first thing. I think a huge part of this is self love. It's just coming to a place understand that, you know, you're in pain for a reason, you're suffering for a reason. And it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you. It just means, in fact, that there's something really right with you. And that's a alarm bell or warning sign that's just tipping you off to the idea that you're just going in the wrong direction. You know, you're going about it the hard way. There's an easier way.

Oh, okay. You have so many great things there that I want to touch on, but I might only get to one or two. So the small talk thing, I can't. I literally. That's. I think that might be a whole other podcast that we need to just, like, I literally have consumed everything at people's appetizer buffet tables. And, like, because I'm trying, I can't small talk anymore. I'm like, I'm just gonna eat 45 more appetizers. It's, like, very challenging for me. I am actually writing part. Like, half of my book is dedicated to how we can stop small talking so much, but from that. So I so feel you on that. But I want to talk about when we move away from the things that don't make us happy and we move toward our bliss. I think for me, from my experience, and I'd love to hear yours and your take on it. It's like, the second I start to move away, massive amounts of pain come in and suffering. Maybe it's people I love who are throwing it at me, or maybe it's. I don't know how I haven't yet found the joy in the new thing. Like working out, for example. Right. Like, I liked to eat. I liked to go out on the weekends. So switching my weekends to a healthy lifestyle filled with working out in green juice actually sounded like pure hell to me in the beginning because there was no joy associated to that yet. Like, I didn't understand how to bridge that gap.

So what.

How do we transition from hell that's giving us some pleasure to heaven, which causes pain in the beginning.

Baby steps. Baby steps. And, boy, does that resonate with me as well. Lori. You know, I remember a point in time when I was in Miami, I was enjoying my life. And I remember also, like, going out and partying every weekend And I noticed that I didn't feel so great the next day, to say the least. And I often didn't feel that great. Even that night. It was like a 30 minutes or an hour and a half, maybe two hours max, that I felt good. So then I said, well, you know, the truth is I don't need to stop partying altogether, but I could, you know, Instead of having 10 drinks, just stop at four or whatever. You just notice when you hit that tipping point. And I would just commit to taking really, really tiny steps. At first, when I committed to working out, I've worked out most of my life, but there was a period when I didn't and I wanted to get back to working out. I simply said, look, I'm not going to go in and try to, you know, rep out, you know, as many, as much weight as I possibly can. I'm not going to do a two hour session. I'm going to just commit in the very beginning to showing up to the gym. If that means I sit there in the lobby and watch all the beautiful people walk by, that's what I'll do. But that's going to be my commitment. So it was, for me, it was setting the bar. We often talk about how we should set bars so high and our expectations so high. And that could have advantages. But there's also advantages to being easy on yourself and just setting the bar low enough that you don't dread whatever it is you want to move towards and that you don't and that you be and that you may even look forward to it. So for me, driving to the gym, that's no big deal. It doesn't take any effort sitting in the lobby. That's great. I love beautiful people. I love people that are working out and being healthy. That didn't mean I had to kill myself. I could just. But what happens is when you just take those baby steps and get the ball rolling in the right direction, all of a sudden it picks up momentum on its own. So then you're in the gym, you're sitting in the lobby, next thing you're like hear a little song that you like. And next thing you know, like, I'll sit on the, you know, the bike for a minute here and I'll just pedal at a real leisurely rate. And then next thing you know, you might feel like doing a little sprint and then you get off and return the next day. And over time, it's the consistency that counts. It's always the consistency. It's never about making this like you know, quantum leap. In one day or one week, it's just baby steps. So if you just do big. Take baby steps and take it easy on yourself, but be consistent. You'd be shocked at how much progress that you make in a week, a couple weeks, a month, certainly a year.

That. I mean, I. So if you are. If you're on a. If you're a fit person and you've been on a workout journey, I feel like that runs so parallel to life. It's been. One of my biggest teachers, is how I show up for just my body or fitness or strengths. Because there's been so many days where in the past, if I didn't make it to the gym, I would just beat myself up. And I have this idea, you know, because we probably. You've probably read, you know, bodybuilder magazines or fitness magazines as well, where it's just like, be consistent. Be in the gym five days a week or split training or do these routines. And I'm like, my body actually just wants to walk, but I have this thing in my head where it's like, no, you have to do this, or you're gonna lose it all. And it's like, then you start to beat yourself up. Then you just don't show up at all. And now it's kind of like I have spent more days skipping the gym and just going out walking, which has been so powerful for me, because nature is really huge for me, too. So is there something that you. That you do now? And I guess what I'm trying to say is people think they might look at someone who, you know, has a life that they may be desiring or has a body that they may be desiring, and they. They think that we're just always ready to turn it on. Where really, it's like, I. I have so much grace with myself and allowing myself to do the little things that. That's not just a begin. That's like a practice that you master and you carry with you at all times. So what is your practice? Around the grace.

Oh, wow, Lori, I love that. And just before I answer that real quick, that coming from you is so powerful, Lori, because look like you're shredded, okay? And you and Chris go ham at the gym. Like, I'm always like, oh, my gosh, they're here again. And I also see you going for walks, and I see, you know, you doing other things that are more leisurely. And I think that's so coming from you, it's such a powerful testament to embodying this grace and being easier on yourself and making sure that you're not going overboard. You know, for me, I think, you know, one of the things that allows me to live in grace, honestly, is sitting and breathing and realizing that without doing anything, with just sitting, everything critical that needs to happen for me to live and be alive is happening without my effort. Not only is it happening, but it's happening more efficiently, more effectively and more enjoyably without my effort at all. And when I came to realize that, and I did a little research around that, I found that really the things that cause us to have more weight in our bodies than we want to not have the energy that we want and all these things is often the stress that we feel around and the pressure we put on ourselves around doing all these things and doing all these things in such a big way. And that if I could learn to relax and remember that through ease and effortlessness, I could achieve all of my goals, including my health goals, including my that once I remember that and remind myself of that on a daily basis, I see results, tangible results, so much more quickly and effectively than I ever have before. So it's the reminder of that. And I'll sometimes remind myself of that by listening to podcasts like yours, for instance. But I'll drown myself in literature and books and articles and podcasts and videos that remind me that life isn't about fighting the current. It's not about going upstream or making it hard on yourself, that everything you want to achieve in your life can be accomplished more quickly and more easily and more enjoyably if you just let go and relax a little. So for me, that's everything. Even when I'm working out, I find that I remember hearing a story, I'll keep it short. Roger Bannister, the first guy to break the four minute mile. They said, hey, how do you run so fast? Like they never thought anyone was going to be able to break a four minute mile. And when they asked him this question, he looked at the camera and paused and he said, the secret to running fast is to relax. That for me is so powerful. It's just whatever you're doing, if you relax, you'd be surprised one, how much more energy is available. And even if you don't feel more energy being available, I promise you the results you'll get from whatever effort you're putting in or already put in so much higher than you would have expected.

That is so powerful. I just flash through everything that's ever felt challenging or stressful or nerve wracking and it's like when you can really just picture, even if you're sitting there going, I don't even know what that looks like. And then ask yourself, but what would that look like if you did know? And just be like, well, maybe, maybe I could relax my muscles or maybe I could think of something different, or maybe I could breathe. It's so crazy how intuitive we are when we do that. That is so powerful. I just thought even when I first started podcasting, like before guests, I'd be like, how am I going to carry this conversation? Oh my God, this person's so brilliant. How am I going to get the best out of them? What am I going to say? And now I'm just like, okay, breathe. How about you just show up? Because they're gonna show up.

Yes.

And that's been, that's the thing, like relax. And people are like, I think type A's, Right.

Oh my gosh.

You want to know? You have to be pre planned, which there's so much to that as well. But let's bring this exact concept into relationships. So how do we relax into maybe when you first start meeting people or if you're not meeting people? How can you relax if nothing is happening?

Yeah. So the one thing that I find it's most helpful for me has been I don't think you can get around quieting your mind. So if you can practice that. When it's easy, when you're going for a walk, when you're eating or showering, just letting your mind go a little quiet and focus on the sensations. You're feeling the water or you're feeling the sand between your toes, you're feeling the sunshine, or if it's raining, you're just involved, engaged in your senses and let your mind go a little quiet. You'll notice how much joy and peace and love and relaxation is already inside of you. It's not something you have to create. It's just sitting there all the time waiting inside of you. If you can have that experience when you're not in a dating scenario, when you're not out at dinner with someone, then, and you've practiced a little bit, when you get to the date, you can sit there and you can have the same exact experience. You can tap into that joy and peace and that love that you always have, sort of sleeping there inside of you. And without saying a whole lot or doing a whole lot, the other person feels that it's palpable and there's a resonance that happens with the other person. So one of the experiences. A good way of putting it, making it a little more concrete. You know, I've had people say to me, and I know, Laura, you've had people say this to you because I thought with you that without having even a full blown conversation, just in somebody's presence who is relaxed and is at peace and feels happy, you feel a closeness there that isn't manufactured, that you didn't have to do anything to earn or create or deserve. You just feel it automatically. We all have that ability to simply sit, relax, breathe and practice that enough so that when you get into a little bit more high pressure situation like dating, maybe you just ask a question or two and let there be some silence in between. But you're comfortable with the silence. You suddenly feel that the person likes you even more by you saying less and doing less. Just you're present, you're fully present. So I think being fully present is like a master key to sort of creating anything you want specifically in your dating relationship life. I mean, if you hear the one thing that people complain about the most is, let's say so and so is distracted or they're not available, not emotionally available, not physically available, they're, you know, they seem to not be there in the room with me or I don't feel close to them. It's all about presence. So if you practice when it's easy, it's so much more helpful when it's hard.

I love that. That's. So that's what I was going to ask next is how do we, how do we practice that more? Because I mean, for, especially for dating and just relationships in general, the people that I do feel the closest to are the ones that are just there. They're those people that when you leave, you go, wow, I felt like I was the only person in that room for that moment. No matter who it is, male, female, whatever it is, it's always their presence. So just practicing like I guess we could practice on people in our lives, but are there some things that you recommend?

Yeah, great question. So first of all, like you said, Laurie, which is just so powerful, is to practice everywhere, with everyone and everything at all times. Right. So. And you do it simply for the joy of doing it. It's so much more joyful to be fully present in your life and take it all in than it is to be distracted all the time. So one of the things I do is I try to do one thing at a time. That's a little challenging, but really one thing really means one thing. So if I'm walking. I try only to walk, not think. Thinking would count as one thing. If I'm taking a shower, I just try to take a shower and not do anything else. Or if I'm having a conversation, I try just to have the conversation. And when I'm sitting there and the other person's talking, I try not to have anything else in my mind. I just know it's a little challenging, particularly in a situation like this, because you want to prepare your next response, your answer. But the truth is something much more powerful and poignant comes through. If you can let the other person talk and you can just be fully present with no commentary, no judgment, no interruption in your mind, it can be a little tough. But as you practice that daily. So one of the things I do is I remind people to do is as often as you can throughout the day, just tune in to your breathing. So try to take as many conscious breaths, enjoyable breaths, joyful breaths as you can throughout the day. So no matter what else you're doing, you could be driving. Try to take one deep breath where you just let the thoughts go and you enjoy that breath as much as humanly possible. And then if an hour later you remember it again, do it again. It just only has to be one breath. Doesn't have to be one hour. You don't have to meditate for five hours or half hour. Just as often as you can throughout the day, remind yourself of that single goal of taking a deep breath and enjoying this breath that's entering and exiting your lungs as though it's the first or the last breath that you'll ever breathe. So I try to think, this is my last breath ever, if this was my last breath ever. Don't I fully, deeply want to appreciate it as much as humanly possible? And then I just put all my effort and heart in that.

That is a really good exercise. When you think of it that way, you're like, I am gonna slow this down.

Yeah, yeah. And you never know, it could be your last breath.

It's true.

It's true.

So that brought me to, you know, expectations around. Oh, and like, the space in between. I feel like whether it's in relationships or attempting to be present, you have to get really uncomfortable or comfortable with the decision comfort of that space in between. So whether it's, you know, even amongst females, when we're, let's say when I first moved to California and I'm trying to hang out with other women or make women friends, it's like, it's that text message to them where you're like, they haven't answered yet. Maybe this is weird. Should I text again? And I'm sure it's the same thing with dating. It's like being comfortable with that space in between or a conversation where you're okay if you're weird or with whatever comes out if you just, if you take a breath. And also the experience accepting of like being okay with if something weird comes out of your mouth or having those gaps. Like, how do we get more comfortable with that? Because I think we just, we got to fill the space, we got to fill the time. Why aren't they answering? What's going on? Like, we try to move things so quickly and then it just gets bizarre and ugly.

Yeah. So such a great question, Lori. Gosh, you know, for me, practice is everything. So if I had to give one answer to everybody about anything, I'd say just simply practice. Right. So for me, and practice when it's easy, when there's no pressure on. So for me that means every now and then it's just sitting, letting myself be bored or uncomfortable. So one of the challenges I've had my entire life was anxiety. Like, I would wake up with anxiety, go to sleep with anxiety all day long. I'd be anxious. Couldn't even identify when I was stressed out and anxious about. But it was something, it was almost there. And then I remember, you know, basically reading about and hearing about people saying, just sit with the discomfort, whatever it is you feel and feel it, but don't add any commentary or judgment or story around it. So no story about how long it's going to last. Don't try to forecast you know how long it's going to last. Don't beat up on yourself for it. Just notice it, observe it, watch it as though you're watching somebody on a movie screen. Be anxious the way you're being anxious. Almost like that you want to almost disidentify almost from it. So if you can just sit with your eyes closed in a comfortable chair and just feel the anxiety or feel whatever it is, the discomfort without any judgment, and then bring your focus back to something innocuous like your breath or like the smell of incense or a candle or the sound of a drill, whatever it is that you, you know, that you're using as a focus of attention, you'd be surprised that in your loving awareness, in your non judgmental observation of your discomfort, it dissolves itself. Right? So that's the key. So it is challenging. You know, most people want to wake up and be able to run the marathon right away. So you want to go into a dating scenario where they really like this guy. He's the best thing ever, and you want to really make a good impression on him. And then you're feeling all this discomfort and anxiety and afraid of what you might or might not say, and then try to do it. And you can do it then, but it's the hard way. It's better off if you practice a little bit, you know, when it's easier. The other thing is always when you're feeling discomfort, it's always a good and easy tactic to turn the attention back on the other person. So a great way to do that in a dating relationship scenario is simply to ask questions, like, authentic questions. People love talking about themselves, and they actually like you more when they talk about themselves than when you talk about yourself. Right. So if you can remember that. That when you're feeling uncomfortable or a little bit of discomfort, you can always turn it back around and ask them something. A question that an authentic, genuine one that you really want to know the answer to, that is so helpful and letting you sort of breathe through the discomfort. And you'll be surprised as they start talking more and more and you're genuinely engaged. Your discomfort will dissolve itself.

Oh, my God. I love that. I use that trick all the time. I'm like, I need to buy myself time. I'm going to barf.

Totally.

Tell me about you.

That's it, Lori. Perfect way of putting it. Put it so much more succinctly.

Yeah, I do that with speaking, too. I'm like, let's ask the audience how they feel. Okay, great.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Great tactic.

Like such a speaker's trick, Rob. I could literally ask you questions all day. I probably got two, maybe three of my questions that I actually had written down. Maybe two. So we'll have to do this again. But I'm so grateful for you coming on. I just want to acknowledge you for all that you do and how you show up in the world. Really, you just carry this beautiful presence, and you're so warm, and people are genuinely drawn to just you. And then it's just great that you can also help us. So thank you for all of your help today.

Oh, I received that. Thank you so much. And I cannot tell you, Lori, how deeply appreciative I am of both you and Chris for what you both do and you both bring to the world. I mean, your love and your light is so powerful. And you can feel it. I can feel it. All the way across the dream, I'm like, yep, I know Lori's here. I know Chris is here. I can feel it. I swear.

I love hearing that. Thank you so much for that.

You're welcome. It's true. It's so true. I appreciate you guys so much, Lori.

Oh, thank you. Rob and I always end on one last question. Are you ready?

Yes.

Okay, so you have an elevator ride with someone, and it's only like, 30 seconds. It's like the Equinox elevator.

And they.

Look over at you and they say, how? I know you know exactly what I'm talking about. It takes way too long anyway. How can I make myself happy? What do you say?

Stop thinking. Just stop thinking.

Oh, man.

Yeah.

So powerful and so true. Thank you so much, Rob. And you guys, if you loved this podcast as much as I did, make sure you share it with your your friends. And until next time, earn your happy. Bye, everyone. Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to share this episode with someone you think would love it, that would be absolutely amazing, and we would be forever grateful. Also, please leave us a review if you feel so moved by going to itunes and leaving us an honest thought, an honest comment, Tell us what you think, tell us what you want to hear more of. It would really help us out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people. Until then, don't forget to earn your happy. Thanks again, guys. Bye. Bye.