255: Why Providing Value Is Key When Building Your Brand and Community with the Skinny Confidential

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Welcome to the earn your happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of The Bliss Project, 3 Time Fitness World champion, fitness expert and cover model, turned self love junkie, lifestyle entrepreneur and author.

Each week I'll bring you a guest.

Or a thought that will help you bust through your fears, connect to your soul and get focused and clear so you can elevate your life, business and relationships. We don't wait until we're ready for someone to tell us we're good enough. We take what we want and we anoint ourselves. Get ready to earn, own, and unapologetically rock your happiness every single day. Are you with me? Here we go. Welcome back to the podcast, everybody. I'm so glad that you are tuning in once again and I'm thrilled about today's show because I have a couple on which is so much fun and I also got to be on their amazing podcast. And you guys, I am a little bit obsessed and maybe you'll see why. And maybe you already follow the Skinny Confidential on Instagram or maybe maybe you already listen to their podcast. Either way, I had the best conversation with them and I had a blast on their podcast too. And I'm not gonna lie, I secretly also want to be a fashion blogger like Lauren Everts Bostic. And also she's like fashion blogger slash mindset coach, slash podcaster, slash all around amazing human. She definitely wins the Slashy award and the flashy award. I don't know, I'm just making this up. Okay, so I have Lauren and her amazing husband Michael on the show. Lauren Everts Bostic is the creator of the Skinny Confidential, a blog, book, podcast and YouTube channel. Lauren helps women live their best lives by sharing everything from wellness and beauty to business and real life tips. The Skinny Confidential is all about having kale in one hand and champagne in the other. Yes, that is like my dream life. So you can see why I was so in love with this woman. And her husband is just as amazing. I'm telling you, he's absolutely incredible. So incredibly kind and offers so much value and just amazing Conversationalist. Michael Bostic is a brand builder and entrepreneur. He's the CEO of Dear Media, a podcast production company highlighting women's voices. Michael is also the co host of the Skinny Confidential, him and her show with his wife Lauren, where they interview experts on topics ranging from fitness and skin care to business and addiction. And you are going to fall in love with this couple who is about to add so much value to your lives. So make sure you go and follow them and Most definitely. Listen in and share this podcast if you loved it. So let's get started, you guys. Welcome back to the show. I'm so excited to be here. I am with Lauren and Michael of the Sky Skinny Confidential right now.

Hi. Hey.

Hi.

I like how you're being described of the Skinny Confidential. You just slid right in there.

She's like, hi, it's me. It's my show.

Yeah, slid right in.

So, you guys, we're in person right now, which is so much fun. And I'm looking out at this awesome view, and I had, like a. I did a little workout before I got here. And when I say workout, I mean I parked in the wrong spot and sprinted here. Cause I was freaking out about being late.

Do you count your steps?

I didn't count my steps.

I count my steps, so I would have been really happy about that. I park far away from wherever my destination is.

It's usually awesome. Until I saw that I was late and I'm like, this is the worst first impression ever.

No, no, no, no, no. It's okay.

You're talking to the queen of late over here.

Oh, I see.

If I would have known that just me, it's. You know what? I'm not gonna lie. I'm from the Midwest, and it was not hard to be on time there. Because if you were 10 miles away, it was 10 minutes to get there. 20 miles away, 20 minutes to get there. Here, seven miles. Could be an hour, could be longer.

It depends. You have to get an Uber if you're an entrepreneur, because you can multitask in a passive way. So you're driving to where you're going, and you can work on your phone or your computer. So that's the trick.

I feel an Uber or a driver that's coming.

I'd love a driver, if I'm being honest.

Why are you looking at me?

Well, he can drive me around too. You know, whatever works, as long as I can get my stuff in.

No, LA is brutal. LA is brutal. And you know what? This building's. I can see why it's confusing. There's, like, multiple colors and floors.

This building is extremely confusing.

Nice view, though.

Yep. It is so bad.

It is. The guy who helped me was like, you're in the parking structure right now. I was like, that's why I can't see floor nine. That's good. Okay, I got it.

There's 20 different color buildings.

It's true. So I want to know all about you guys, because this is. Honestly, I'm so excited to meet you, number one, because your energy is amazing and I feel like we're so in the same space. So I'm really excited to dive in with another couple, even though my better half is not here. But I would love to know, first of all, how you guys met and then how you got started doing what you're doing right now.

Holy. We gotta.

Yeah, you gotta.

Can we cuss on this podcast? I don't know.

Yes, you can cuss on this podcast.

Okay, I'll keep it to a limit. I don't know if we have that much time.

I mean, Michael, we're gonna test you.

We're gonna test and see if you can bring it.

We met when we were 12 years old.

Oh, wow.

Yes. We met in sixth grade. I was like 5 foot 11 and Michael was 4 1.

Women bloom a little bit earlier than men. Okay.

Yeah, I bloomed. No, I was. I was actually 5 7, my height. And he was. He was 4 1.

But listen, no bullshit. She showed up to the school and she was fully developed and I was like, you know, a 12 year old boy. And I said, oh, my God. I thought it was the substitute teacher. I was like, this is my lucky day. I didn't know she was a student.

Yeah, I didn't look like a student. And I saw Michael and Michael was so cute when he was young. Like, I have like a weird fetish with how cute he was and he was. I talk about it all the time. He gets really creeped out. But I. We, like, started dating. I'm putting quotes because It's. You were 12 and we dated from when we were 12 to 15 and we broke up and I went for the older guy that, you know, that quintessential story that we all have. And he dated someone in our grade and we just kind of separated. But we always found each other coming back to each other in high school. Not dating, though.

Yeah.

Then after high school, we went to college and separately. Separately. He went to Arizona, I went to San Francisco.

Harvard of the desert.

Okay, awesome.

And, you know, we dated other people and we just. At around 21, he convinced me to go to Vegas with him. And the rest is kind of history. We've been together for probably like 10 years. We were dating for six years. We took our sweet time because we definitely both beat to the tune of our own drum. We were engaged for four years. Finally got married two years ago. So that's. That's longer than 10 years.

I've run businesses together. Married. Have, you know, teammates.

Chihuahuas. Yeah, Lots Of Chihuahuas.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We're solid team at this point.

Yeah.

We're not each other.

I missed a couple stories within.

We glazed over.

We glazed over.

Glazed over. Life.

A few stories. But that's how we met.

Yeah.

Essentially.

Amazing. So now, have you guys always worked together or. When did that start?

We started working together. Well, I. So I launched the Skinny Confidential when I was at San Diego State.

Okay.

And Michael, I can let you kind of tell his entrepreneur journey before I hop in.

No. So my background is I'm an entrepreneur, Right. By trade, I couldn't live or breathe in a traditional work environment. I have to have my own thing going on. Not that there's anything wrong working for somebody else. It's just for me. I know. I don't know. I don't perform. I never have. Right. When I was in high school and middle school, you know, I worked as a gardener. I worked at McDonald's. I've done all the job. I was fucking terrible. It's the worst, right? So, yeah, out. Straight out of college, I got involved in the real estate market. That was 2008, one of the dumbest years to get into that market. Got my face slammed in and then had to pivot. And this is always kind of a weird segue, but I started a company called Jet Bed, which makes. We make beds for corporate and private aircraft. And we did it as a side kind of passion project, and now been operating that business for 10 years. And from there, I didn't know anything about marketing, so I had to figure out how to market to that niche. And I started learning how to do that online. Right. So through Google, Facebook, in the early days, when you could turn on an ad and get 4, 5, 600% ROI, which was crazy looking back on it now because it's so competitive. And from there, because I was marketing the direct to consumer space. Lauren had her blog, the Skinny Confidential, and I said, hey, I think maybe I can help you and assist you here.

Well, actually, I had an idea for the Skinny Confidential for a year. And within that year, we were out to dinner one night and I was telling him all the ideas and how I wanted to build the foundation. And I was so meticulous and knew that I really wanted to build a brand. It wasn't just a blog. And so with that, I, you know, had. I always say I had textiles and colors and everything on my wall of how I wanted it to look. And one day he looked at me and he's like, will you just launch? Like, I was taking Too long. And so I launched it and as it started to gain ammunition, cause I was a broke bartender at this point, like no money, living at my godparents house, we were not living together teaching Pure bar and Pilates and he was like launch. So I launched and like I said, as it started to gain momentum about after three years he really started to come in and kind of help with the backend. And from there after about five years we launched or six years, we launched a podcast.

Yeah, well what happened was we were getting so many Messages to the DMs or to emails and we were responding on an individual level, whether it had to do with branding or marketing or how to work together, relation, whatever it was, whatever the topic. And we said, okay, how can we create something that reaches people on a mass level? So we're not sending these individual responses all the time because we felt that we weren't doing the rest of the audience a service by responding only to the individual. We still try to respond to individually, but we wanted to address a lot of these topics on a, on a mass level. So we started the podcast together.

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I think, too, with the podcast. I think if you're out there and you're listening and you want to start a podcast. When we started our podcast, it was really about intention. And our intention was to bring the community together. It wasn't like this, get rich quick, make money, grab what we can grab kind of scheme, I think. And when I launched the Skinny Confidential, it was the same thing. I didn't make a dime for three years. I've been blogging for eight years. I did not make one one dollar. I was bartending for three years, paying the bills with that and Pure Bar and Pilates and graduating from San Diego State and doing all that while I was building the brand. And I think the takeaway from our story is like, we really had a strong intention of creating community, which I know you're so much about, instead of just like, leading with the money.

I find that so often that sometimes we can, you know, when people are thinking about building out their dream or doing what they think that they want to do, a lot of times they're like, how am I going to make the money right away? And I have, from everything that I've ever done, it's never worked that way. It's kind of been like, I'll make the money while I'm figuring out exactly what I'm really enjoying and what's fueling me. So for you guys, how what are your income streams that you guys have coming in?

So at this point, right, like we have still the marketing agency of Jet Bed, Lauren has her business and then the most recent venture that we're. Where we're sitting right now is Dear Media, which is a primarily female podcast network that I started with my partner Digital Brand Architects, which is a influencer management company. And so we have those businesses. Then a lot of different passive investments. Right. Like I've been involved in the tech space for a long time, but really like I try to keep whenever and I think Lauren's the same way. Whenever we're involved in a venture, we try not to be all over the place. Right. Like try to be very targeted. So I'd say right now, you know, we still have the agency, we still have Jet Bed and Lauren still has the Skinny Confidential and Michael has Woo.

Which is the coconut oil lube.

Yeah, we have, we have brands we're investing. But I'd say the main, the main thing right now that we're pushing is that I'm pushing is Dear Media and she's pushing the Skinny Confidential.

Okay, so when you said and this was so important because this is where I get all caught up and I think where a lot of people who are creative get really caught up in the shiny stuff. The squirrels, like, I'm just like, oh, that would be good. Or that would be great.

How do you know they're all over Analogy. That's a really good analogy. I like it.

I am like such a squirrel person. So how do you know which ones you know are going to work for you? Because there's so many different ideas. Do you test all at once or you test one thing at a time and then you focus on that for a while because you do have a few things. But how did you know when it was time to move on to the next one?

That's a really, really, really good question. Like that actually that's one of the better questions anyone's ever asked me. I think you have to figure out what your and Michael always says this, what your, what do you say your five month or your three month plan, your five year plan is and then work backwards to make sure that it's lining up to the. Not the end goal, but the eventual goal.

I think like for me, I think it's if you're doing everything you're Doing nothing. Right.

Amen.

A lot of people. And you know what, I'm giving my introduction now and obviously this is a brief interaction in a real sped up introduction of my life. But we're talking like, you know, had the agency that's been going for, you know, seven years. We have Jeffed, that's been going for 10 years. So I'd say the primary focus now, those, those are existing businesses that are up and running and they have a ton of help at this point. So dear media now, like the reason it made so much sense is Lauren and I have been doing a podcast for the last two, three, two and a half years now and we've had great success building community and audience in that space. We've been with networks, we've been self produced and I, and I see that there was a real gap in the way one, women are represented in the space and to the way brands and audiences interact on the podcast space. Right. You still hear those typical like radio reads that all of us fast forward through and don't listen to. And I figured like, how, how can you immerse an audience and a host in a cohesive way with brands and loop in digital channels, social channels, and present this content in a, that's valuable one, to the audience because that's the most important, two, to the host who likes doing it, and three, get a benefit to the brands who are supporting these shows. So that's kind of been our challenge here. But I think to go back and touch on what you're saying is when you're trying to do all these different things, you're like, oh, that's shiny over there. Most of the time it's rooted in short term decisions or short term scarcity. Right. I think if you're making decisions based on a short term outcome, you're going to constantly have to make those decisions and you're going to run into a lot of trouble.

I always say to create a compelling future and just like for the audience, takeaway. I think if you're out there and you're confused, you should sit down with a piece of paper and you should draw out what you want your life to look like in seven years. And this is what I did with the Skinny Confidential. And so much of my blog is creating your own future as a woman. So you sit down and you map out exactly what you want in one month, two months, three months, and then you go a year and then you go two years, and then you go seven years. And so when you can see that overall goal, you can create systems to get to each step. So even in the morning, as small as waking up and making a list of the seven things that you need to do that day and getting those seven priorities done before you do anything else is extremely helpful. I think it's all about working backwards so you can get to where you want to be.

Oh my God.

I'll give you another example too. We've seen a lot of people getting attention in the digital space, right? A lot of influencers or bloggers. And we all know that one influencer blogger that said, hey, this is my jewelry line or this is my book and this is my course and this is my clothing line and this is this and this. So you start to look at it like there's nothing special about those launches anymore. There's too many things. You can't pinpoint what they actually do because they do everything right. And so I assume that a lot of the launches are. They're great. But because there's. There's not a real brand established there and there's so many things, it's really difficult to get an audience to connect with an individual brand on a really tight level. Right. It's not like a Nike or like whatever, you know, whatever it is. Like there's too many things going on.

I always say that. Think of your brand as an upside down triangle. So when you're first starting out, you're at the tip of the triangle and you're niching down so much. So when I launched the Skinny Confidential, it was only health and fitness because I was working in Pilates and Pure Bar. Since then it's expanded out into that big open triangle. But what I did with it is I just talked about health and fitness for three years. Then I slowly started to introduce the characters into my life. I don't even think Michael was on the blog for. For years. I mean, my grandma was a character on the blog. And then I started to show people were interested in beauty, but I spun it with wellness and then I added that wellness spin to it. And then you just grow out to let the audience slowly get to know you instead of completely overwhelm them. I think sometimes when people launch a blog, they call it a lifestyle blog. I almost think that that it's strategic to not launch as a lifestyle blog, but launches that niche and then you can grow out later. You have all the time. You just need to be patient and slowly grow outward.

There's that word patient that was totally me. I was all over the place, all over the place. And I Wondered why I wasn't, you know, things weren't catching. Like, things were catching, but not at the rate that I wanted. It was just I was either always launching something and never giving myself time to even marinate in, like, the greatness to come. Right. It was always because we got really good at being really good instead of being great, and now we're just really focusing on what would be great, what. What is that next level of great. But I think that you do have to kind of try and fail. So what were some of your favorite huge failures that you think were absolutely necessary to get to where you are?

I mean, like I said, there's been. I don't think. I don't look at it as necessarily failure. Right. Because I think failure is admitting when you're done or, like, when you're finished. Right. For me, I look at it as setbacks and things you have to learn from. And I think that's what distinguishes true entrepreneurs from people that are. That are trying to be right. Like, you have to be dealing with gut, and this is for anything. You deal with gut punches all the time. I think learning more about ourselves and how we operate with people and understanding that we don't have it all figured out and understanding that that's okay, and that it's okay to take chances and then get slapped in the hand or slapped in the head and say, okay, wait a minute, I need to take a step back and learn from these mistakes. But I don't necessarily. When I think about my career and when I think about Lauren's career, it's never been something that's like, oh, I'm finished. It's been more things like, oh, wait, the way I'm looking at this is not. Is not completely true. Right. I have to. There's. There's things I have to adjust. And that's. That's been the hardest thing for somebody who's very type. I type A and thinks they have it figured out. Right.

I would say from a macro level, my biggest failure is learning to manage a team. I started as a bartender blogging in the bathroom, you know, on breaks. And I was my own boss. And I have, you know, I instilled this discipline in myself where I would just get it done and figure it out. And so when I brought on more people, I wasn't a good boss. And that has taken a lot for me to be able to step back and listen to podcasts and read books and listen to audiobooks and learn how to be better and have, you know, my team Members come to me and be upset about something that I'm not communicating. I can be really, really in my head and I see the vision and I see clearly where it's going, but I don't let the people around me. So I've had to learn to be more verbal. And that is still a work in progress and not something that I'm fantastic at. It's not a strength, but I'm working on it from a micro level, like a failure that I could just tell you a quick story. It would be probably this thing called comment pods and I'm sure you've heard of this. So if anyone's listening and they don't know what a comment pod is, is it's basically when 15 bloggers, and there can only be 15 because that's how much you can fit in an Instagram message, get on an Instagram thread and comment on each other's Instagram when the Instagram goes live. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Yes. Okay.

So this was happening everywhere, all over the place, like probably a year and a half ago. So I was like, wait a minute, everyone's getting hundreds of comments and I'm over here only getting 100 instead of 200. What's happening? So I joined a comment pod and I did it for about three to four weeks. And by the fourth week I noticed that the energy that I was putting into this comment pod was going towards other bloggers and influencers, which is okay, but what I wanted it to go to was the community. So I saw this like fork in the road where I could have this long term strategy which was to put that effort that I was putting in commenting gorgeous nice on other people's Instagrams into the community. Or I could keep going on the comment pod thing. So I decided to get out of the comment pods after 4 weeks and I took all the energy that I spent commenting on other bloggers pictures and put it into following my community on Instagram, commenting to them, engaging with them, DMing with them. And what that did is it's just grown my community into like this, this beautiful thing. Meanwhile, the girls that were in the comment pods, I'm watching now a year later, and they're all getting tired of putting all that energy and so their comments are going down while mine are going up because I chose to, you know, change that, that. So I think there's so many forks in the road on social media where you can take the quick money and do the, you know, fit tummy tea or sugar bear hair or you can really sit down. Hone in on your strategy. Hone in on your community and figure out what your strategy is.

I think people get really lost in obviously seeing what other people are doing, especially if they have the comments, if they have the followers that they want. What would you say to people who do they have? Who would you go and talk to? What would you go and seek out? Like where is the manual for the people who want to get really clear and get really focused on what they want to do on building their brand?

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To do if you're trying to get really clear on building a brand and this is something that I did, and I tell everyone this because it's really this simple, is go to Rite Aid, get a poster board and on the poster board put all the colors that you want, pull fonts, cut out things of magazines. Don't do a vision board, okay, you're doing an execution board. I made up this word. This is a whole different thing. This is an execution board. This is in front of your face and go to the fabric store and find fabrics you like and get glitter and sequins and put all of this on this poster board and actually build your website in front of you. So when you go to a web designer, everyone is on the same exact page of what's happening and just pull, like, almost make your own Pinterest board, but make it in real life. And I'll tell you the difference of doing a Pinterest board and doing this. When you have something tangible in front of your face that you're walking by for six weeks and you're adding and you're creating and you're doing it, you're going to execute it more than if you just go online and make a Pinterest board. So I would start with creating your own Pinterest board. Bring that to a web designer. You want to look at the web designer's work before you decide to hire them on, right? Because you want someone that's, you know, very good at branding. Have them build your website and from there get the app snug, which is amazing for planning your Instagram feed. Pick your five colors, stick with those colors, stick with those fonts, and have the brand really shine through every medium. So, like, if you're on Facebook, the header needs. Needs to be like, it would be on it. Like, everything needs to really be in a circle. If you're using purple on Instagram, then don't use green on your blog. And colors is just a quick example. I'm talking about fonts. Your pictures should be cohesive. You want to remember you're creating a brand. And when someone sees that brand, they want to know it's you.

Well, on a macro level, that I think those are, those are very concrete, like, strategies to take. But I think, like, if to dumb it down and to go. When you're thinking about creating a brand, and especially as an influencer or a blogger, a content, let's call it digital content creator. If you have. If the intention going into it is to provide value to an audience or community and you. And that's what. That's the truth you hold to the entire time. And that's what you're rooted, is like, okay, what value can I provide today? What value? Is it entertaining? Are you inspiring? Is it learning? Whatever it is, then I think you're in a position to have a great brand. I think where the people are running in trouble on social media is it's more of like a me, me, me thing, right? Like, this is about me. It's not about Me teaching somebody something or providing entertainment or some type of value. I think if you're an influencer, blogger, podcaster, and you don't go into the intention of providing something to the end user, then you're gonna have a really difficult time. We always talk about this in the product space. You could have. If you have a shitty product to start with that doesn't provide any value, you're gonna have to rely on a ton of marketing. But if you have a really, really great product that provides value to somebody, it's gonna do the marketing for itself.

You know, Michael just said something. Mel Gibson said this. He said, you want your movie and.

I want to use the Mel Gibson.

We're going back to Mel. No, we're going back to Mel.

Goes back to Mel.

It all goes back to Mel. You want your movie to either entertain, educate, or inspire someone. And if you can do all three, you're a master. So whenever I put anything out there, even if it's a tweet, even if it's an Instagram caption, it has to do one of those things or all three. The only thing I would add to Mel's list is engage. I think after you put that up and you distribute the content, it's really important to go sit down. And I do. I do 45 minutes in the morning and 45 minutes every night, seven days a week for the last eight years.

Wow.

I engage, I like, I comment, I answer their questions. I cannot stand when influencers don't act. Like, if you wear a shirt on Instagram and you don't tell me where it's from when I ask it in the comment section, shame on you. Like, you have to like, like, you can't. That's what our job is, is, is to engage and be social.

What have you found to be the biggest growth for your brand on social? Like, what if. What strategies did you find to be kind of.

That I. I either want to inspire, entertain, or educate really with. With what I'm doing with just posts and even with podcasts, and that's just being super authentic has worked really well for me. But now I can see I also have to get some strategy behind it. Cause that's where I can kind of fail is I'll just be like, oh, this right now. Or that feels good right now. And what happens when it doesn't feel good is that I don't do it. So for me, that's been really big, is just being as authentic as possible and as consistent as possible. Honestly, at the end of the day consistency has been so huge for me because I've just shown up.

What do you think the biggest pain points have been?

Oh, God. Being on social media, because it drains me.

Yeah.

So, like, when you said you. You do 45 minutes, I'm like, well, maybe I need to just get really clear on time, blocking and being like, no, this is part of my job, where sometimes what happens is I feel like it's with me at all times. So I'm really trying to, you know, cut out times for it. But I would say feeling like I have to be on all the time has been the most draining for me because I like to be completely off.

I feel you on that so much. You and I can talk about this so much. I really, really feel you.

It's, it's.

And it's. It's hard to talk to people about it because you can't understand from an outsider looking in how it is. And when I say hard, I don't mean, like, woe is me. I just mean that there's no clock out.

You know what? I feel bad for you girls. I feel bad for all the girls, but for you girls, both pretty women, Right. But on social media, you're done up and everything's perfect. That's the presentation. And so sometimes you just want to roll out and, like, go get a breakfast.

No, Like Kim Kardashian said, sometimes she just wants to roll out with her fat hanging over her shorts and eat a churro.

We'll be. Yeah, we'll be out.

We would all love that. I would love that.

Listen, we'll be. Maybe it's a Sunday and we're out and we look like shit the next day, and we're out. And then like, someone's like, hey, I saw you guys and you don't look like. It's like, listen, of course, like, we're trying to put nice things on social media, but, like, you know, the.

Give me a break, man.

I feel bad because I feel like people have visceral reactions sometimes. Like, oh, my God, I saw you didn't look good. And I can see where the pressure would find. Like, you don't have to put your makeup on every day. You don't have to put your hair up or like, yeah, we're not. Sometimes you just want.

I just want to be a normal person that, like, has this community.

That's why the strategy I take is I'll just look like shit all the time on social. So when you see me, like, up there, there he is. But it's hard.

You know, I would, I would say to, to hit your point is that do you, first I would ask you, do you have a time cube? No, you gotta get one.

Okay.

It's this little. And Michael told me about this, so I'm gonna give him credit. It's this little twenty dollar time cube that you get on Amazon. It's like fifteen dollars and it's a dice. And you turn it over and it's like 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes so you can execute your time with this time cube. I can't explain why it works, but it's a phone away. Yeah, same thing.

It just comes in a dice.

Excuse me? Get an all fancy with your words. I just call it a dice.

It just comes in a dice format. Right.

But that's, that's okay. So these things, you have to find.

What works for you.

And I'm very like, I'm very tangible. Like something like that, that I could just turn over and would be in front of me and would have the numbers and say, I think that's what's really huge for me is what's happening is I'm like, I'm not done till it's finished. And that's killing me because some days finished could be two hours on social. Right. And your soul is like.

My soul's like, I call it a dementor.

Oh, it's bad.

Yeah.

So I think if I did. Okay, 45 minutes and whatever's not done, what do you do? So are when those comments, if you don't get to all of them, do you just let them go?

Okay, so you're not going to get to every comment. Got it. That's, you're not going to be able to. But if you see the same comment being asked and asked and asked, you can either copy and paste, you can put it on your story and saying I'm seeing a lot of this, you can tag the brand in the caption. You just want to, you just want to be paying attention. I would, would recommend that you wake up. Whenever you wake up up, do whatever you do for your morning routine. And then you do 45 minutes of engaging on DMs and commenting back. But at 45 minutes, you or whatever your time is, maybe it's 10, maybe it's an hour, you gotta stop. And that's hard. It is hard. But at least you've put that time in. It's like you said, you've done so well because of that consistency. And if you do that in the morning, at night, it's so helpful. Here's what I think. At the end of the day, the reason that I have this platform is because of my community. And the second that I neglect that I'm not practicing the slight edge, which means the reason that I ha. Like I just said, I have the platforms from the community. Don't forget about that. Some influencers, they start to forget the reason they have it is because of that core community, that following. So I think to me that's more important than any business deal, email, text message that I get all day.

You know, that's so powerful. I feel like I absolutely needed to hear that today because. Because part of me is like, I just want to disappear for a while. But when you actually put it back in, this is why you have everything. This is why you have the ability to create. This is why you have the ability to not only create, but to pivot if you want to do something different is because you have all of these people who are interested in you. How powerful is that? That's. That's so amazing. So everything that you guys have said, clearly you do so much self work as well. It sounds like you do a lot of reading. It sounds like you do a lot of self work. How much of your decisions and life depend on just intuition and making sure that you, the self is taken care of.

I think this, it's a. We just talk, we talk about this all the time. I think I do certain things, right? Like I'm a big reader and I, you know, I'm good in fitness, I stand up my health regimen. But in terms of self care, like, I can let that go, right? Like if I'm not meditating or I'm not taking time to eat healthy, like, I can definitely let that go because I get stuck in the work funnel, right? You know, sometimes it's discouraging. You sit down with entrepreneurs and they're like, oh, I do, I do this, this. I'm so on it. I'm on it. I'm like, man, shit. That's not like I'm. Sometimes I'm a worker.

I don't know if they're.

I think they're lying.

Yeah, I think they're lying too because I'm like, you know, that's a lot. It's a lot to cram in. But I do think that there are certain things when it comes to self care. Like for me, I'll put everything on hold to sit down and read. Not just for the benefit of learning what's in the book, but I take that as my time to like, like be quiet with my own thoughts and meditate. I need that time to get all the, you know, slow down all the emails and all the interactions and just time alone. And I think it's important for anyone to listening to understand that it doesn't necessarily have to be a set regimen. Like maybe it's video games, like maybe not, not unhealthy, but maybe you want to play 30 minutes of games, maybe you want to go on a walk, maybe you want to work out. There's just something where you have some alone time to reflect on your own thoughts. I think that's really important to do on a daily basis basis to get the other opinions out of your head.

Oh my God.

Yes, I am opposite of Michael. I Tim Ferriss said this thing once that just really worked for me. He said what he does with anxiety because I get anxiety is instead of letting it get to the point of getting anxiety, he does preventative measures to not get there. And if I don't do my preventative measures it gets bad. And so I have very specific things that are non negotiable and I can be ruthless and selfish with my time when it comes to my self care because I am not going to be functioning at my best if I'm not getting enough sleep. Like I'm just not. It's I know myself, I know my body, I need sleep, I need facial massage, which is very different. I had jaw surgery and I became really swollen and inflamed and the only thing that helps get the inflammation down is facial massage. So what I do is, and this, this, maybe this would help someone out there who needs an hour to themselves is I book a facial massage, not a facial, facial massage once a week for an hour. I go in, there's spa music playing, everything is relaxed. The facialist, I go to MO in San Diego, she knows that that's my hour to work. I lay down, she does facial massage and I get one hour interrupt. Uninterrupted phone is off on airplane mode and I can just do my emails and sit there. So I feel like I'm passively multitasking. I'm getting that lymphatic drainage and I'm also getting an hour to myself with emails. So a lot of the self care that I do is passive multitasking. And what that means is self care can mean listening to a podcast while you're cleaning your house. To me that's very meditative to clean my house. And so I also get that knowledge in I always try with self care, like I just said, to always be doing something that's productive with it. I think that's the trick. That's what I found. Works for me. It's like you still feel productive, but you're also getting in the self care. So I'll walk to the coffee store and listen to a podcast at the same time. So I'm. I'm getting my steps in. I'm getting a little bit of sunlight, I'm getting some movement, but I'm also getting some knowledge in. So with self care, if you're an entrepreneur, I guess I would say try to do something that you feel good about, but also do something that you're gaining something out of that time, if that makes sense.

Yeah, totally. I love that. And I love that you shared that you have anxiety. So many people would. So many people would look at what you guys are doing, at what so many different people who are successful are doing. And a lot of the women that I talk, talk to, and I think it's because there's so much stimulation out there as well. And just our brains are not meant to go as fast as we're going. But I deal with massive anxiety as well. And if I don't do my stuff, I'm like, I. I can't. Like, if I want to stay married, I have to make sure that I take care of myself or I turn.

Into, like, a freak.

Like, I'm a devil. Yeah.

Oh, for sure. Like, I'm just weird. Like, I was just a weirdo yesterday. And I go to Chris, I'm like, you're married to such a weirdo.

And he's like, go to the Korean spot. Go to the Korean.

SP just told me that that's okay. It's coming up in my realm.

I have this other. I have this foot spa that I go to, and I. It's like a hole in the wall, and it's so ugly. And you just lay there. You can lay on your phone and they just, like, rub your feet, and it's perfect. Insane. Michael loves it. He's smiling.

We lied. We lie to our staff and say, hey, we have a meeting at John and Peter's.

But it's actually the foot spot. We call the foot spot John and Peter. So in our calendar, it says meeting with John and Peter because it's an uninterrupted hour.

Now we're gonna have to come up with a new code just in case that happens.

Yeah, crap.

We have a meeting with Chuck. Bleep that out.

Like Damn. Why do they have so many meetings.

With those guys, these random guys? Oh, so what do you do? You guys do a lot of self development?

Yeah, I think that for me, my self development is through podcasts. I'm constantly listening to a podcast. I'm cooking, doing my makeup, walking around the house, cleaning the house. There is a podcast on, and it has to be something that has, has a lot of value.

What's your fave?

I love Gary Vee. I love Tim Ferriss. I love Lewis Howes. I'm attracted to a very masculine energy and not in a way where it needs to be a female. I just like a heavy masculine. Like, I would say you have a masculine energy. Like, I'm attracted to like a heavy energy. So it's, it's usually probably like for a woman. I love the balance blonde. She's amazing. And then I read a lot. I read every single night. I finish the night on which I. Which is probably not good. And you guys shouldn't do this on my phone reading. We're trying to fix that. But I do read every night.

I'm just gonna get those crazy ass glasses.

And my husband stimulates me a lot. He's. He's constantly learning, so that, that always makes it interesting.

Well, I think that in order to perform, and maybe I didn't touch on this too much when I was talking earlier, but in order to perform in any business capacity, whether you're working with somebody or within an organization or you're working for yourself, like, if you're not constantly looking to learn and to develop your mind, you're going to get stagnant and you're going to stall out. Right. For me, like, I have to constantly be looking for more answers. I have to constantly be learning. I have to look at new ways to do things, new perspectives.

Tell her about the stoicism book you read every morning.

I read a lot of stoicism books. I like Marcus Aurelius a lot and Seneca. But I think for me it's looking the reason I like reading more than maybe listening to podcasts. Listen, I love podcasts, but reading really like, I do this thing called the Three Book three where you read three books at the same time, not in one sitting, but like maybe a fiction book, maybe a nonfiction book, and then maybe something that's just light. And I like it because.

Can you give examples of what you're reading right now?

Right now I'm actually reading a book called Mastery by Robert Greene, which he's a great author.

Ray loves him too. Ray Our producer. Hi, Ray.

And I'm trying to get onto our show. But no, I like that because some. You know, when you're reading a nonfiction book, like, difficult and dry to get through, it's still really, really valuable content. There's a really book called Sapiens right now, and it's. But it's a difficult book to get through. But if you. I find. If I read, okay, 30 pages of that, and then I pick up, like, a very light fiction book and then maybe some other book, I want to have three different perspectives in my head so it gets my creative juices flowing. And two, I find that I can power through those harder books sometimes faster. Because you've sat down with a really dry book and you kind of just stop because it's. Yeah, it's too. It's too boring. Right. You want the information, but it's boring. So I find reading in that capacity interesting. And it gets, like I said, gets my creative juices flowing, and it makes me look at the world in different way, and it makes me perform better as a. As a business owner.

We were both reading the same book. We just finished it, and I can't remember the name, which is so bad. When breath becomes air.

Yeah, that was a long time ago.

Well, like, a couple months ago. That was a really, really good book. If anyone's looking for a good book, I like to read, actually a lot of biographies. Big fan. Because I like to see how super successful people got to be where they are. I find that really interesting to see the history of that.

When you find that so many of those people that you admire so much had a really, really tough time getting there. And that's, I think, the most valuable part of reading those books. You say, okay, if they can get through it, so can I. And most of these people in history had it a lot harder than us. I mean, they didn't have cell phones. They didn't have postmates. They didn't have Uber. You want to take your family?

My latest biography, though, wasn't too historical. Victoria Beckham.

Listen, you want to take your family camping back in, like, no, son, we're gonna fucking get eaten by air, by bears. You know, like, you can't. We're not going camping. You know, now everyone's got these things that pop up. And you can take the rv. Like, you want to go across the. You want to take a trip to Italy? Nope. You're going to die along the way.

Yeah, exactly. You'll die trying to get there. So I want to know for you guys this has been a topic for my husband and I a lot lately. Just because as you start to really grow and as you start to grow your business, you can find that maybe you're not getting as recharged in some of your relationships in your life. Because what can happen is you can turn into kind of you. You can turn into coaches sometimes as you start to, you know, get to know a lot of different people. And if you're not like having those people who up level you, how do you guys seek out relationships in your life that actually feel intimidating to draw you into where you want to go, to pull. Pull you an up level you.

You. I am super, like, I'm super black and white here. I think that if someone is toxic and I don't know exactly what you're referring to, if it's a friend you've had or a friend you want. Like, if someone's toxic, I don't have any time for it.

I'm not even toxic. But I mean, like, not necessarily talking about the level of things that you want to be talking about anymore. Like when you're transcending a bit when.

You'Ve out, like, maybe you've outgrown a conversation. So you went to high school with somebody, right?

Or even not.

I'm gonna let you take this one because you're. You have a couple of answers for this. I think you can be cutthroat.

Well, listen, it's not about being cutthroat. I think you touched on it in an elegant way where it's like, when you've outgrown some of the conversations. We all know that one person that maybe you went to high school with, and maybe you guys went out and drank and partied a long time ago, or maybe you were talked about, I don't know, you know, things you talked about then and you know, they still want to talk about those things. And maybe you're on a career path that's, hey, I want to talk about new things, or I want to talk about these new topics that I learned about. I'm interested in new subjects. If you find yourself being stifled by that, I don't think you need to necessarily, like, cut someone off or abandon them. I do think you need to spend more time seeking out people and mentors and people that can uplevel those conversations. And for me, it's not like cutting people out necessarily. It's more of spending more time with people that I feel teach me something new or make me look at the world in a different way or make Me appreciate a new topic. Like, I think that's what you. That's how you grow as a human being. Like. Like, no, you know, if you would have the conversation I'm having in high school about, you know, girls and games, and that's not so interesting to me anymore.

I think your answer is really great. And I would say that. That my answer to this would be very similar, which I think of this like, vegetables, okay? If you want to lose weight, instead of taking stuff off your plate, you add to your plate. And I've talked to so many nutritionists about this, and what you add is leafy greens. So you crowd it out. So if you have a plate of friends, that's food. Add more leafy greens. The mentors to crowd out the noise. And here's. At the end of the day, here's the bottom line. You have a thermometer of energy. You can only give so much energy. You've got to figure out where you want to allocate that energy. And if someone's not contributing to that or they're sucking it, or it's. It's negative or it's not. It's not. It's not productive for either of us. I feel like you gotta crowd it out.

What do they say?

That was so good. Can we just say how good that was? That was awesome.

Vegetables don't crowd me up. Vegetables, don't crowd me up. What did they say? It's that. Things like, that you're the son of the five people that you hang out with most. But that's. That's true, right?

Like, I hang out with Gary and Tim and Lewis and you in your hip hop.

Yeah, me too.

Me too.

But, yeah, that's true, right? Like, you can look and say, like, if you're somebody listening to this podcast and you look around, like, look at the five closest people to you and say, could I. And this sounds really terrible because, like, sometimes you need to cut people off, right? I myself, personally, I've never understood, like, why if we went to high school together, why we have to stay together for life. Like that. That seems even crazier than marriage to me. Right? There's some people that it makes sense for, but, yeah, like, take a look around. Audit your friends, audit your. Even your family and say, okay, should I be spending more time with other people? Like, if you look at a successful businessman or woman, say, I wish I had that, we'll start hanging out with people that have that, right? Like, that's the only way. I mean, there's other Ways hard work. But, you know, your friend Joe, who you used to, like, smoke a joint with in high school, is not going to take you to the promised land.

Bethany Frankel said, I never will forget this. She was in a fight with Jill Zarin, which is a million years ago on Housewives. And she said, said, they said, just cut her off. Just cut her off. And she said, no, you don't need to cut people off. You can slowly back away.

Oh, yeah.

And they're. You don't need to be so cutthroat. You can just slowly back away. You know, if it's not serving you and, and you're not serving them, like, it's not, it's not productive.

Kind of like you said, if you're spending more time with your mentors, if you're spending more time with those people who give you energy, it's kind of. I also think that that builds you up and kind of gives you this extra muscle where you can say no more often where before. If you're not hanging out with those people, you don't see the reason why you wouldn't be. And if you start to feel lonely, of course you're going to go back to what was kind of half fueling you. So really, I love that. Just bringing more people in and filling you more up. So what is the most exciting thing in your lives right now? Like, what is giving you the most life and energy for both of you?

I think for me. So we started this podcast as a passion project. We started it out of our living room, right. We didn't know what we were doing at all. We had minimal equipment. If you go to listen to the early episodes, it's almost cringe. I'm sure, you know, mine are neat, right? Like, when you first listen to yourself, you're like, oh my God, the audio is. I mean, at one point we were kind of filming and we had a. Like, my sister was a semi co host, but she was not fully on camera because we didn't have the right equipment.

It's awesome.

It was cringey. But we slowly, over the last two and a half years, have grown that, grown that. And the show's doing phenomenal now. But from there, just seeing how the space works and our experience in the digital space. What I'm most excited about now is Dear Media, which is the podcast network which you were shooting the shit about earlier. Having a platform where I can help other podcasters, and specifically female podcasters, shine and have. And build their platforms as well. It's really great. To build your own thing. But when you can help other people build their things, it's a much more rewarding feeling. And I've gotten to the point in my career where I've gotten myself to where I need to be business wise and financially. And now being able to help other people grow their platforms and meet their dreams and is. I'm super passionate about it right now.

I love that.

I would say that I'm most excited about two things. The first thing I'm most excited about is this year I've really dedicated to working on my business and not in it. That's been another thing that I've had this huge transition with. So I'm really trying to work on the bigger picture and creating that instead of just doing these little micro things like returning emails and all these tiny little things that you get caught up on. Another thing that I'm really passionate about is I have a secret Facebook group. It's called the Skinny Confidential. And it's this community of women. There's like 35,000 women in there. And it's nothing to do with me. Right? It's them connecting them doing meetups, them hanging out. And it's. It's so much bigger than me. And I sit back and I look at it and I'm like, this is the reason I started blogging. It's like, like they can go hang out and they're so like minded. It's just so amazing to watch. So those are the probably the two most exciting things in my life. And my chihuahuas, but that's like, oh, they're always exciting.

I probably should have said my wife, right?

Yeah.

What about your wife? You know what, we're just gonna say whatever husband and wives are like together, we're just gonna assume that it's all great. And you know, that's the most exciting.

Lauren, just assume it's great. Okay?

I don't love being described as great. Though I could use another adjective. Maybe dust off your. The Thoris.

Legendary. Phenomenal. Legendary in the shadow sheets.

Breathtaking.

Breathtaking.

So fun. Interviewing another couple.

Gorgeous. Perfect.

I just remembered something about earlier and this is like backtracking. Sorry, but I can't remember where I heard this, but it just came into my mind. They said that you want to hang out with three types of people. The first, someone below you doesn't not status, but just someone you can teach something to.

You know, someone below isn't the right word. Maybe someone you can mentor.

Someone you can mentor. Someone you can teach. Right. Someone you could give Something back to then you want someone on the reason on. In an equal level. Right. Like that's your friend. You shoot the. You have the same things in common. And then someone that you can learn from. Right. Someone above you where you can look up to them and learn from those. I think if you have those three types of people or multiple types of people like that in your life, that's where I think you find yourself fulfilled.

Oh, amen. I think that's so powerful.

Yeah. And no high maintenance friends.

Yeah. No. There's no time. Like, life is exhausting enough, especially running a business that you just. You have to find those people who. It's an equal energy. Energy exchange. Or I. We can't. Like my husband and I both are at this point where we're like, cannot. No. And it's. It's crazy how once you start giving, you know, all of your energy to things that you love, to your community, to the people who are really fueling you back again, it's kind of like you're crowding your plate again with really good things. So it makes it easy to let go of those things that aren't. Because you start to say, this doesn't really. I'm not losing anything. And even the backlash of possibly losing something doesn't matter anymore because now you're at this level with all these different people who also understand and who are also there to help you through it.

Totally. And if you dread going to dinner with someone, don't go to dinner with them. It's that simple.

That's. Oh, my God. This was like our whole year. Like, literally.

It's just. It's literally that simple to look at it. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. I learned that the hard way. Michael Bostic.

You don't want to go to dinner anymore.

She's like, we can't go to dinner anymore, honey. So what is not. Not fun right now?

What is not? So many things aren't fun. Like, there's so much. There's so much behind the scenes that people don't see being an influencer. There's so much spent on the business that I don't get to create when I would rather be creating. There's so much time spent in my email inbox. I mean, I would say, like, Michael always says this and I'm steal the line since you stole a couple of mine, but you're constantly putting out fires as an entrepreneur. It's like every day is another new problem. And that gets me off and I'm obsessed with it and it fuels me. But at the same time, it's not like smooth sailing every second.

Oh, my goodness.

Yeah, Yeah. I think also, like, what can become challenges? One, I look at that as, again, more hurdles. I don't look at it as not so much fun. It's just part of the territory.

Right.

If you're a business operator, most of the day is spent out dealing with problems or issues or solving problems, and those could be good problems. Right. It's like maybe you're trying to get this offer done or you're trying to get that. You're trying to get this. Whatever it is, it's. It's usually putting out fires. It's not smooth sailing that's in any entrepreneur journey. But I think what's not fun is trying to balance out when it's time to work and when it's time to be in a relationship. Right.

It is not time to work at 7 o' clock in the morning when I just opened my eyes. Just so you can take note of that.

No, I think that that's, that's difficult with any couple. Right. And I'm sure you've experienced it with your husband. Like, when is it time to turn it off? But when you're so immersed in it, maybe, maybe you're at a point, like, I want to talk about it right now, and he's like, no, I don't. And vice versa. And I think those are challenges that we have to navigate through. And they're not fun, but they're. They're going to come with the territory that we both decided to commit to.

We have a place too, that we go. We have this one place that we go two times a year that's down in Mexico, and it's this place that we just really disconnect. And I think if you're in business together, you have to have that place and no one can tell you what it is. But maybe you have a restaurant that you go to that you just, you just connect as a couple. We have a restaurant in San Diego that you're not allowed to talk business at, Cafe Chloe. So you just have to find those places.

You're like, what the hell do we talk about?

And then like, don't ask about posting an Instagram when we're having sex, you know?

Yeah. But I think also, you know, maybe as you scale an operation, like certain people, what's not fun is some people aren't. You can't scale with them. Right. And so there's people that get left Behind I have a really difficult time letting go of people and we've had to let go of like friends or family that are close to us within those business. That's never fun fun because I'm empathetic to to them as well. But you know that's all part of the journey as well. It's like all that. All that non fun stuff is part of what you need to go through to get to the fun stuff.

Oh my God. Okay, last question. But I could ask you guys questions all day long. I feel like I'm just now getting to the questions that I really want to ask you. So we'll have to do a sequel. What is going to have to change in order for you guys to get to the next level that you want to go to too?

For me so simple that question. I gotta stop doing the micro stuff and really focus on the macro and really learn how to delegate and lead the team.

Yeah. I think to get so self reflection here honey.

Can't wait to hear it.

It's really love a self reflection scaling our own individual abilities. Right. And you can only do so much up to a certain point by yourself as a. As a business operator. Right. Or even on a team. Right. You can only take on so many tasks. You can only do so many things. And I think, I think both of us have really operated at a high level as individuals for a long time. And now as we build out teams and organizations like okay, how do we scale all of that? And that's gonna be the learning curve. But it's going to be required to get to the level that we want to go to which is a much bigger level. Right. That's just how it is.

How about mentally? Anything gonna have to change mentally with.

Your self talk or with my sleep. My sleep is not the way that I sleep. It's like the phone or computer's in my face until 1 in the morning. And like the way I wake up it needs to be a little bit more strategic. But I think it starts with the night before. So I need to work on that.

Okay.

Mentally it's just understanding that you that I can't operate so compartmentalized and by myself. Right. Like my. My partner calls me Rogue Nation. Right. She's like nobody. You can't just be working on your own from 8 o' clock at night till midnight or from 7 in the morning till 10 without letting the team know what's going on.

Right.

And I tend to operate and kind of go off on my own and on these tangents. And doing my own thing, because that's worked in the past. And now it's like, okay, how do I communicate this to the organization? How do I communicate to everybody involved and get everybody fired up with the same vision that I have or at least aligned in the same direction that I'm aligned in. And in order to do that, I have to change a lot of my behaviors. And I'm not there yet, but I'm figuring it out.

I would say that you could add a couple pieces of kale to your diet, too. And maybe some self care. Just a sprinkle. If I'm being honest.

My wife could help me out with that. I'm basically starving over here.

I brought you a bar.

Where'd you find made of kale? All right, so that wasn't technically my last question, because I want you guys to. Whatever's on your heart, whatever you would like to say to a maybe entrepreneur who just feels stuck right now, or any last words that you want to share?

Just about.

Honestly, just about anything last week words. How's that feel?

You're gonna me to go first?

Yeah.

I think that so many people are scared to take a leap. And if I could point to one thing where I've, like I said, had setbacks but have found the most satisfaction. I don't want to call it success. I want to call it satisfaction in my life, is that I'm always somebody that'll take the leap. I always look at anything I'm a part of, is that it's already going to be a massive success. And maybe that's. It sounds crazy to everybody else. Like, you know, when I told Lauren I wanted to do a podcast, she was like, what are you talking about? Then we did it. And then when I said, hey, I want to do a podcast network, she's like, I don't know. We did it. And I think, you know, I want to create beds for jets people I don't know. And we did it. And I think that if you have a vision in your head and you have the drive and the confidence in yourself to push forward, you can accomplish anything. But you have to be willing to take the leap. And you have to stop guess, second guessing yourself, stop asking permission and just go. The worst that happens is you fuck it up and you go back to whatever it is you're doing now. And I've always looked at life like that. And at the end, like, I, you know, when I think long term, I don't ever want to get to the end of my life. And Say, man, I wish I would have done that thing I wanted to do. Like, I always want to live life on my terms and I always want to take the leap. And if I could give any kind of, and I'm not inspirational, but any kind of message like this to anybody thinking about taking a leap, just take the leap. Because you can always go back and you'll regret it if you don't.

Mine really aligns with Michael, which is not surprising because we're married and teammates and that, that is just. Do you be you be to the tune of your own drum? Ever since I was little, I've always done things on my own terms, which is why I was a horrible employee. But you just put your blinders on, stay in your own lane, focus on your own shit, stop scrolling through Instagram and do life how you want to do it. And yes, you're gonna get haters. That's part of the game, that's part of life life. And you're gonna get your parents opinion, that's part of life too. Drowned it out. Focus on the end goal. Be a visionary.

You guys, I feel like this was like such a life giving conversation and I just needed to hear it so much and I know that everybody else did too. So thank you guys so much for coming on. And if you loved this podcast as much as I did, you guys make sure you go and follow them. Where can we find you? Follow you, all that good stuff.

Well, first of all, you guys have to listen to Lori on our podcast. Yes, we're doing a collab. You can find me at the Skinny Confidential on Instagram and our podcast is on itunes. The Skinny Confidential.

Him and her and I'm just Michael Bostick. And you can check out, you know any female creatives out there looking for to create a podcast. Dear Media. Just check out Dear media studio and dearmedia.com thank you guys so much.

I'm so grateful for you and just who you are and how you show up in the world. And I'm so excited that we met. Like, just I feel like I got to talk.

I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner.

People I know. Well, now's the perfect divine timing. So you guys make sure you share this episode with your friends and until next time, earn your happy. Bye everyone. Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to share this episode with someone you think think would love it, that would be absolutely amazing. And we would be forever grateful. Also, please leave us a review if you feel so moved by going to itunes and leaving us an honest thought, an honest comment. Tell us what you think, tell us what you want to hear more of it would really help us out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people. Until then, don't forget to earn your happy. Thanks again guys.

Bye bye.