273: Turn Pain and Fear into Courage and Learn How to Talk to Anyone with Alex Banayan

Foreign.

Welcome to the earn your happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of The Bliss.

Project, 3 Time Fitness World champion, fitness.

Expert and cover model, turned self love junkie, lifestyle entrepreneur and author.

Each week I'll bring you a guest.

Or a thought that will help you bust through your fears, connect to your soul and get focused and clear so you can elevate your life, business and relationships. We don't wait until we're ready for someone to tell us we're good enough. We take what we want and we anoint ourselves, get ready to earn, own, and unapologetically rock your happiness every single day. Are you with me?

Here we go.

Welcome back to the podcast and I'm so excited you're here for this episode. It is a extremely powerful episode. I laughed, I cried. I had just a few moments of massive epiphany. So before we get to that, Chris and I, who if you guys aren't familiar, but I think most of you are, if you listen to the podcast, my husband, Chris and I are are opening our program. It's completely open right now for enrollment and it actually closes this week. So we are taking on group coaching and mentoring in our aligned course. So if you go to becomealign.com this is one of the last opportunities that you'll get for the entire year to work with us. So every single week we're going to work with you for one hour on live group coaching along with the incredible coach course that comes with this. Not just that though, if you enroll now, you also get a free ticket to our live aligned event fall of 2019. You guys, that is a thousand dollar value alone. So go to becomealigned.com right now and I hope that I get to work with you and meet you and see you and go through all of these incredible life and abundance modules together. And if you are looking for your tribe to uplevel with, if you know it's time to move forward and get the people who are going to pull you forward, then you absolutely want to start this course. It is all about opening up your life to abundance, to relationships, and to so much more that you need in order to get to your next level. Whether it's life, love or business, this is definitely your spot. So I can't wait to see you@becomealign.com and truly, it's one of the most fun things that Chris and I do. And the transformations from the last group were mind blowing. We have people who have started businesses, we've had people who have had massive success in Their business, in their relationships. And they've finally broken through and shed the stories that have stopped them. So today's guest. Let's get to the show. Is Alex Banian. And Alex Banayan is not only an amazing human, but I got to have this podcast at my house. So in person, this person just absolutely blew me away. Even more so. The day before his freshman year of final exams, Alex hacked the prices.

Right.

This is a real story. Won a sailboat, then he sold it. And he used the prize money to fund his quest to learn from the world's most successful people. And since then, he's been named Forbes 30 under 30. He's been named Business Insider's Most Powerful People under 30. He's contributed to Fast Company, the Washington post, Entrepreneur, and TechCrunch, and has been featured in major media including Fortune, Forbes, businessweek, Billboard, Bloomberg tv, cnbc, Fox News, msnbc, and CBS News. He's also an incredible keynote speaker. And as you'll hear in this, he is a beautiful storyteller. And I really believe that massive transformation happens to through story. So sit back and get ready. And here we go.

Alex, I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much for coming on.

I am so excited to be here.

Okay, so this is pretty fun because Chris, my husband, had you on his show earlier. You were over at the house, and ever since. So, number one, I got to meet you in person, which is always so nice. Number two, just about every walk that Chris and I have been on, somehow you've come up. Because apparently you tell really good stories. And I've heard. I feel like I've heard just about every story, which is amazing. It was really fun to also hear it through Chris. Like, he gets super excited and giddy. I'm not sure if you picked up on that. It's one of the reasons that I love him. So last night, you were on our walk, and I was learning.

Oh, wow. So I'm deep in the relationship right now.

You're, like, in the middle. I don't know. It's a very comfortable triangle up in here. Yeah.

Very nice.

So I was learning about your Price is Right experience, which is really funny. Which I'm gonna have you tell a bit of that story. Cause it's the beginning of your book. But it's really funny because I was actually an audience member on the Price is Right, so I was, like, right there with you.

So I know the whole, you know, the stick. You know how it works.

Yes. And after now being let in on how it actually works. I was like, oh, my God. I could see how that happened. So I want to hear a bit about that. But I've been seeing your book everywhere, which is so exciting. I think that's the biggest, best thing you can hear as an author, because when you set out on the adventure of writing a book, it's kind of like you have this idea of what you think it's going to be, but it's something completely different. So that's what I want to start out with, is just asking you, now that the book is out in the world in the hands of all of these amazing people, what has been a response that you were not expecting? Hmm.

First of all, thank you. That's really kind of you to say. You know, last night I had this really surreal experience. I was doing this, you know, really small event at a WeWork in Santa Monica, a little book event. And I thought, like, you know, maybe I would just, you know, you know, I don't have a huge social following. Like, it's not. It's not crazy like you. And, like, I just posted, you know, that I was doing the event, like, two days beforehand, not expecting anything to happen, and I literally started tearing up. Last night, there was a guy who flew in from Boston on a red eye. There was a woman who came in from Dallas, and I was just, like, shocked. And the reason I was so emotional is because I remember doing that with my favorite authors. You know, I remember being 19 and finding out that Tim Ferriss was speaking in San Francisco and using, you know, my Price is Right money to book a standby ticket and, you know, like, hiding in a bathroom so I could meet him. And, like, I know what that feels like, because in many ways, that was what fueled me on my journey. And the fact that that's happening even in small ways already was really touching.

Mmm. That is beautiful, isn't it? So incredibly surreal.

I was gonna say that's the only word to describe it.

It's like, wait, am I really having this impact on people? Or I.

Like, I'm still waiting to find out that my mom's, like, paying these people off. Like, I know it's. I know the shoe is gonna drop at some point. I'm gonna find the invoice somewhere.

Well, whatever. It's moving you forward on your mission, so.

Thanks, Mom.

That's so beautiful. And I can imagine, you know, as you put a book out into the world, you kind of don't know, especially.

Is this your first book?

Yeah. Okay.

Okay.

That's amazing. Number one, congratulations.

Thank you.

So you kind of don't know, like, what is going to pay off. And you don't even know what that word payoff means. Does that make sense? You don't know if, like, it's gonna create a ripple over here. Is this gonna create a ripple?

And then all of a sudden you're.

In it and you're like, what do I even. You stop caring about numbers and you start just wanting to be in rooms with people.

Mmm. You know, that transition feels so good because I'm just starting to go through it.

Yeah.

Where you. You get out of the craziness of launch and you actually start meeting people who were really the reason you started this in the first place. You know, no one. Well, I guess some people do, but I don't really know those people who, you know, write a book just for the press stuff. Like, the reason you wrote your book is to help people live more fulfilling and connected lives. And the reason I set out to write my book seven years ago, you know, it's been the seven year journey, is that I had this dream that if all these leaders came together, you know, not for press, not to promote anything, but really just to share their best wisdom with the next generation, people could do so much more. And seeing that mission starting to bear fruit is really, really emotional.

That's so beautiful. And I want to talk about your role in that because I think that there's so many pivotal roles out there where people. Because I have really stepped into my identity or like, my feeling like it's my purpose, at least right now, of being a connector. Like, sometimes you don't even have to be the person with the big ideas to have the big idea that feels really purposeful and meaningful and impactful. Like, it kind of sounds like you may have found your spot, as in the moment anyway, as the person who connects all these people to create this, like, tornado of whatever happens when great people are connected. So what have you found is what was the whole point for you, though? So I know there's always a reason that we want to impact people, but I think it's also important to talk about the unapologetic carrot that has kept you really motivated.

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Yeah, you know, I've been thinking about this a lot recently. I'm reading this book right now by Judd Apatow called Sick in the Head, and he's talking about when he was starting out as a standup comedian. It wasn't until much later in life that he realized, you know, the reason he wanted to be on stage as a comic was in the beginning. He was ruthlessly insecure, felt not enough, didn't feel like he had a place, wanted attention. And he talked about how the difference between the comics who end up having a long career and the ones who sort of spin off is that there has to be a point in your life where that original, almost darker motivation begins to evolve and you're on stage for different reasons, and no one knows that evolution is happening except you. And reading that was the first time that I ever actually felt somebody describing something that I felt. And I've never even admitted out loud, which is. And it's crazy, even to my best friends, I've, like, never really talked about it, that there was definitely parts when I'm, you know, 18 years old in my little office, like, working on this book until, you know, 2 o', clock, 3 o' clock in the morning some nights. Yeah, there was definitely parts of me that was just, like, pissed I wasn't invited to parties and that I, you know, didn't have a girlfriend or, like, you know, things that sound silly in hindsight, but at the time, when you're a teenager, feel like, you know, the defining elements of your. Of your life. And I just felt, you know, completely unloved and, you know, just not enough. And no one really talks about that. And what I've learned is that it's actually okay that that was part of my original motivation because it wasn't the only motivation.

Mm, absolutely. It's evolving motivation.

Yeah. And, like, they coexisted. I also, at 18, I also really thought that if I went on this mission to get these interviews and put it all into a book, that it would not only help me and help my friends, it would help my generation. And those motivations coexisted. And it wasn't until later, long in life, that, you know, the. With a lot of therapy and journaling, that the pain started melting away and the larger mission and purpose started to Take up more space, which I'm a lot grateful for.

Oh, I love that you just shared that. I think it's vital. And I also think that, you know, if we started talking about it more, it can get people out of the feeling of being stuck.

I thought I was the only one.

Oh my God, are you kidding me?

I never, like, I literally didn't even tell my friends because I was so ashamed that, like, I, you know, that I was insecure.

Oh my God.

The whole reason I even started in fitness was because I didn't want to be made fun of anymore. And the first thing I thought of was like, I'll be loved if I'm fit and I'll show them. And I was so ashamed.

Oh my God, I'll show them. Was literally like the burning fire inside of me, which I want to go back to like my 18 year old self and give myself a hug. And like, I know them doesn't really exist. You know, it's not about them, but like, everyone's like, if you've listened, I've never seen the musical Hamilton, but I've listened to the soundtrack.

Yes, I was listening to it today.

Right. And you know, the, you know the recurring theme of like, just you wait. It's the same feeling. I'll show them. Just you wait. It's, you know, the whole Hamilton narrative of that soundtrack is this teenager who feels not enough and he goes off to become, you know, one of the founding fathers. And, you know, it sounds like you and I are. And I'm curious to ask my friends at some point to see if anyone else is going through this because you're now my first friend who's also confirming this.

You know, it's funny, I've talked about this with a few people. In a lot of times, the theme that comes up is like they're ashamed to say that something either superficial or something so petty or something that maybe comes from a negative place was actually the fuel, you know, that got them moving. And I thought, but pain is a massive motivator. It's the idea of, you know, don't put your hand on a hot stove. Like, that hurts. So hurt leads us in the other direction. Whether that direction is correct or not. It's leading you away from the hurt, at least first, which is then going to branch off into other paths. Right. But the first step is to move away from the pain. So whether you move away because it's like, wow, I'll show them, or I just don't want to feel this way pain anymore, it's getting you away. It's like the first step of, you know, not being depressed anymore is maybe like anger, you know, it's like evolving emotions. So I love that you shared that because I think so many people might still be being motivated by that. And they're like, maybe I should be motivated because I want to make money to feed starving children. And if that doesn't do it for you, if that does not get you out of bed in the morning, then you need to stick with that other motivator until you know, it creates a clearing because of all the action that you're taking.

So, yeah, I, you know, I agree 100% and I feel that pain with awareness is our greatest teacher. You know, pain without awareness is this motivator that just makes us run in a million directions for the rest of our lives.

That's so good.

I spend a lot of time running in the wrong direction.

Oh man, you and me both.

It's actually how I start my journey.

Yeah, but like, isn't that true with all of us, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So what does pain with awareness for you look like right now? Because I'm sure that there was some pain or there is some pain within getting your life's work out into the world.

Yeah, well, you know, it's still, it's not, it's not like, it's like I'm this like super evolved person that doesn't feel pain anymore. I still, you know, wake up every morning with like a different thing that might be bothering me. And when I was starting out, the pain, you know, the pain was twofold. You know, I've already talked about the insecurities and stuff which is fueling me to get going. But there was also a pain of confusion and not knowing what I wanted to do with my life, of fear of disappointing my parents. Because when I was starting out, you know, I was this 18 year old college freshman and to understand why I was going through this life crisis of what I want to do with my life, you have to understand that I am the son of Persian immigrants, which pretty much means I came out of the womb, my mom cradled me in your arms and then she stamped MD on my ass and sent me on my way. And you know, in third grade, I wore scrubs to school for Halloween and thought I was cool. Like that was the extent of how deep the pre med upbringing went. I actually remember when, you know, in kindergarten, you know, parents put up their kids finger paintings on the refrigerator, my mom would put skeleton charts up on the refrigerator. And we would. I'm not kidding, we would actually, like, read them off in the morning at breakfast. Like, that was the extent of my upbringing. And it wasn't until I got to college that I remember the first. Just the first month. You know, I'm the pre med of pre meds, but I'm lying on my dorm room bed staring up at the ceiling and looking over on my desk at this towering stack of biology books feeling like they're sucking the life out of me. And at first I assumed and you know, that, you know, you go into that pain, but the weird thing is you don't know what's causing that pain. You're looking at these biology books that you've been told are your life's purpose, and every time you look at it, you want to pull the covers over your head. And at first I assumed I was just being lazy, but eventually I began to ask myself, what if I'm not on my path? What if I'm on a path somebody placed me on and I'm just rolling down? And, you know, like you said, sometimes pain is the best motivator. Because it was that pain, that confusion, that uncertainty that made me start asking the real questions that changed my life.

Oh, wow. So was it. Was it just like a light bulb moment or one question that led to another because you started getting some answers or what does that look like?

I don't know if it's just me, but I've actually never have had a light bulb moment in my whole life.

Not sure I have either.

Like, I've had, like, I have this, like, little whisper that's is like a. Like a nagging. Maybe it's because I'm Jewish and like a nagging voice is in every.

I'm not Jewish. I have one too. Maybe I have. Maybe I have a Jewish nagging voice in me as well.

You have a Jewish mother in your head. And like, you know, it just starts off as this whisper. And it only comes to you in the times when you're, like, alone, you know, when you were in bed, about to go to sleep, when you're in the shower. And like, those are the moments that if you're actually listening, are trying to pull you in a different direction. And, you know, at first I assumed, all right, not only do I not know what I want to do with my life, I started wondering how all the people who I looked up to, you know, how they did it. You know, how did Gates sell his first piece of software when nobody knew his name? How did Lady Gaga get her first record deal without a single hit under her belt. And what's interesting, you know, we talked about the evolution of pain. My pain started to evolve into curiosity. And that's a even, you know, as much as pain motivates me, so does curiosity. Like not knowing something that I'm dying to know about can sometimes make me run even faster. So I remember, you know, going to the library and just ripping through biographies and self help books and business books. But eventually I was left empty handed. That's when my naive 18 year old thinking kicked in. And I thought, well, if no one's written the book I'm dreaming of reading, why not write it myself? And you know, I thought it would be super simple. I would just call up Bill Gates, interview him, you know, interview everybody else, and I thought I'd be done in a few months. That I assumed would be the easy part. The hard part, I figured was getting the money to fund the journey. And you know, you touched on this a little bit in the beginning. You know, two nights before final exams, I'm in the library doing what everyone's doing in the library. Right before finals, I'm on Facebook and I'm on Facebook, you know, I'm on Facebook and I see someone offering free tickets to the Price is Right. And the first thought that comes into my head was and this shows like literally how much I was trying to procrastinate studying finals. I'm like, what if I go on the show and win some money to fund this stream? You know, not my brightest moment at all. You know, I had a problem, you know, I'd never seen a full episode of the show before. I'd seen bits and pieces, you know, when you're homesick from school in third grade, like it's the only show on tv. Like I didn't grow up with cable. It was like the only. It was like channel two for us. And the only thing I saw as a kid. But I'd never seen a full episode before. Plus I had finals in two days, so I told myself it was stupid and to not think about it, but I don't know if you've ever had one of these moments where it feels almost like there's a rope tied around your gut and it's slowly pulling you in a direction.

Oh yeah.

And you know, that night I decided to do the logical thing and pull an all nighter to study. But I didn't study for finals. I studied how to hack the prices, right? And I went on the show the next day and did this ridiculous strategy and ended up winning the whole showcase showdown. Winning a sailboat, selling the sailboat.

And that's how I funded the book is amazing.

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So last night, Chris was telling me a little bit about the strategy and I, you know that you found it like on page. I don't even know of Google Search. What did you say?

It's like, I have a big belief that everything good in life comes when you get to like the 23rd O on Google. Like that. Really interesting.

So that's kind of the.

So that was.

I was thinking about it this morning, obviously. Our interview is coming up this afternoon and the whole concept of the third door, it's kind of been something like, I love that you did wrote this book the way that you wrote it too, because there's always a way is basically what you're saying, right? The concept throughout the whole book is that there's always a way. So throughout the theme of your life, which you'll probably weave through some other stories as well as we're talking, but have you. Do you think that there's always a way for anything that you choose, or.

Is it for those moments where you.

Said you have to recognize when the rope is tied around your gut and pulling you. So do you think that when you feel that. That there's always a way or give me some clarity around the moments in your life that you've always found that other door and how to follow it.

You know, Tony Robbins has this great anecdote where he says, you know, if I were to give you $5 to run into a burning building, would you do it? You know, everybody says no. And then he says, what if I don't pay you any money? But I tell you your mother is in that building, and of course the answer is yes. And I think your question sort of speaks to that in the sense of when you have something that you care so much about, whether it's something that you are dying to know because you're so curious, or something that you truly feel will help so many people, or something that you want for yourself, that you always dreamed, no matter what that motivation is, when it is so strong, only then will you do whatever it takes to make it happen.

So the concept of this book, because that was the whole reason you wanted to go on Price is Right, it.

Was like my very naive get rich quick scheme.

I love it, though, because it worked. Here's the thing, though. I literally feel like I would have done the same thing. I would have been like, it can't be that hard, right?

You know, I actually think being naive is sometimes one of the greatest advantages.

Oh, my God. It's helped my entire life. Like, whenever I. Whenever I run into an overthinker, I'm literally like, oh, man, I can see how you're stopping yourself right now. Like, you stop yourself before you start. So I always cling to the idea of, like, already winning or picturing the winning. So is that what you kind of do is you're like, yes, this is happening. I can see it. I'm going here. Because otherwise people overthink and they say, oh, God, the probability of this and that, and I have to go in the line. They think of all the things beforehand rather than thinking of, you know, what happens when they're winning or seeing themselves winning. So that's a huge different way of thinking. So which one did you go to to actually believe this could be a possibility?

Well, I think what you said was exactly right, which is that when you believe something is possible, it becomes possible. And if there's one thing I've learned on this journey the past seven years is that you can give someone all the best tools and knowledge in the world, and their life can still feel stuck. But if you change what someone believes is possible, they'll never be the same.

Oh, that's so true. Have you ever had moments in your life when you've had to let go of helping someone who's been really important or pivotal in your life because they are just not ready to help themselves.

Hmm. Sadly, yes. Yeah.

It's almost like. I don't know if it's the same for you, but for me, it's been like sometimes when you hold on too long, it just. It starts to feel like that weight and they can actually start to bring you down with them. It's this point of where you almost feel like if you don't do it, your dream will go as well. Like everything that you've ever desired is going to go down as well or be kind of, like, suffocated with them. Maybe I'm getting too deep here, but that's kind of the feeling that I think that most people try to avoid is. I don't know, I think transcending or moving past someone that you love because they are suffocating your life's vision or dream or purpose is that point where people stop. They stop pursuing what they want.

You know, it's hard because, you know, most people want to help those they love. You know, you've been in that position. I've been in that position. And so I've so many other people where you really care about other people, and when you see them hurting, you want to help at the same time. And I wasn't aware of this for most of my life. You know, there's a difference between wanting to help someone and having a codependent relationship where all of a sudden you're responsible for their emotional state.

Yes.

You're responsible for their happiness. And what I've learned is that you can help someone, you can offer to help someone, you can try to help someone, while also knowing that I have no power over them. I can't save them, and I can't change them. All I can do is try to help.

Did you have anyone while you were writing this book and going on these adventures? Because, I mean, there are some. Which I would love for you to share. One of what you. They all kind of just seem crazy amazing to me, everything that you went through. But was there a time when you were out doing this and pursuing this and you knew it was right for you, but some people just either called you crazy that you loved or that you shouldn't, or gave you advice, like, a lot.

Oh, yeah. You know, with, you know, having. Coming from an immigrant family.

Yeah.

You know, I talked about the whole MD on my ass since I was born, but, you know, I say that as a joke, but in reality, it's actually much deeper. You know, my family Fled country where if they stayed there because of their religion, they would have been killed. My grandpa was in a, you know, an execution compound. He escaped. Came to, you know, came to America as a refugee. And my family came to America with a really simple idea that if they sacrificed everything to give their kids an education, we won't have to suffer the way they suffered. And now here comes along, you know, stubborn Alex who's like, I'm gonna write a book.

And they're like, are you kidding me?

I could not understand why my mom was literally crying. Yeah, I said I wasn't gonna be a pre med anymore. And it wasn't like one night of tears. It was weeks and weeks and weeks. And when I decided I wasn't going to be a pre med anymore and when I decided that, you know, I was going to go write this book, that was hard in the first place. But, you know, a year into this journey, I, you know, my big Holy Grail interview was Bill Gates. So a year into the journey, I finally got on the phone with Bill Gates, his chief of staff, and he goes, look, we love what you're doing, but we can't do an interview with you until you get a book deal. Okay? So then I had to go get a book deal, and I took a whole nother year to even try to get my foot in the door. And now I'm about two years into this journey and I finally. It took me eight months to get a litter agent and I'm finally there and I'm like inches away from what I feel. The end zone is the end zone. And I sort of have to come to terms with the fact that if I really want to achieve this dream, it's not going to work if I'm just doing it half assed. And, you know, I was barely able to get Bs in school. Working full time, and college is expensive. I wasn't willing to get D's and F's and I wasn't willing to not get this publishing deal because I needed it to get to Bill Gates. So I sort of had this ultimatum. And when I came to the realization that I needed to, you know, take a semester off from school and give 100% of my time to this mission. It was the single hardest decision at that time that I had to do because it wasn't just, you know, me dropping out of college. That wasn't the issue. I was turning my back on everything my family had sacrificed. Turning my back on their dreams and their hopes.

I think so many people can resonate with that right now? Because I think it's the main. I honestly think it's not what we have to do to get to our dreams. It's not everything that you explained. After family, it's typically what stops us is the fear of not being loved anymore. So we use it. Excuses like, I don't know what to do.

You know, that's so. Oh, yeah. I wish someone had told me that at the time.

And the craziest part is, though, and you'll have to tell me, did it come full circle for you? What's going on with your family now? Are they proud of you?

Ever seen the movie Ratatouille?

What's that?

Do you ever. Do you remember that Pixar movie Ratatouille?

Yeah, it's been a while.

Weren't they shot?

Look, I had never seen it when it came out. I think the movie is, like, 5 or 10 years old. I never saw when it came out. I was on, like, an airplane like, a month ago, and I didn't want to do any work, so I'm like, oh, Ratatouille, let me watch that Totally.

When I watch movies like that, right?

So I'm watching this Disney movie, and it's literally. It felt like I'm watching. I was watching my life story in the sense of, here's this rat who doesn't want to do what all the other rats wants to do. He wants to be a chef. His family thinks it's crazy. They tell him, you know, rats aren't supposed to be chefs, and they sort of disown him, and he's like the black sheep of his family. But the beautiful part is that at the end of the movie, for Ratatouille to achieve his dream of, you know, becoming a chef and opening up his own restaurant, his family all comes to his aid at the very end and helps him achieve the dream. And, you know, the day the book came out, my mom flew across the country to New York, and we were in Times Square together celebrating, and it was, you know, by far one of the most fulfilling moments of my life.

Isn't that beautiful? It's like, you can't see that in the beginning, but something.

Oh, no. Oh, my God. If someone told me that this is how it would end, all the pressure would be off. And I'd be like, oh, she's gonna love me at the end and be proud of me. Great, great.

No problem. I can deal with this then, right?

The reason it's hard is because, look, my mom, I love her and she's the reason I am who I am. But she was making it very clear, like, this is the biggest mistake of your life. You know, she was literally making equivalence that I would become homeless if I, you know, tried to trace this dream. And, yeah, she. My mom is not one to not dramatize something. And when you're a kid, when you're in 18, 19, 20 years old, like, and your mom is screaming that you're gonna turn out to be living on the street, you believe her, and it's terrifying. And when you see her crying for days and days and days, you really are afraid that this might be the end of my relationship with my mom, who's the most important person to me. So when I say it was the hardest decision of my life at that point, you know, I don't say that lightly.

Mm. I think just. You're just confirming so much that nobody knows what's best for you than you. And we're. I mean, I'm not sure, as much.

As parents love to say we know what's best.

Yeah. Once you hear that voice, though, because we all have it. We all have the innate ability to tune into that voice. Whether it comes to you when you're walking or working out or reading something or in those moments of just, like, complete. You want to throw the towel in, but you just get this soul hit or something, you know, I have no other way to describe it than, like, just this soul hit where something lights you up, you feel more alive than usual. You have more energy. It feels certain, even if it's for a flash. It's like, nobody can know that except for you. Nobody. And I know. Someday when I have kids and my kid is telling me they know, and I tell them, no, they don't know.

Yeah, exactly.

I'm gonna have to just let them follow it. And that's the craziest part, is the part about you not knowing how your mom would feel. And for you, the stakes were even higher because you really could. You probably couldn't sit and think about, oh, my God, like, think of all the things that they went through, and they think I'm just kind of, like, laughing in their face over what they did.

I had no idea.

Yeah.

And, you know, I think fear is the most universal element to any journey of achieving your dream. You know, it doesn't matter if you want to write a book, if you want to be a musician, if you want to start a company. Every dream inherently must pass through this unbelievable threshold of fear. And when I was starting my journey with these interviews, I assumed that all these people I looked up to had to be fearless because I was. You know, not only am I scared the majority of my life, my friends, like, hate, used to hate going to theme parks with me because, like, I would never go on roller coasters. Like, I had a nightlight on until I was 12. I was like the scariest kid you would meet. And what's interesting is that I think because I was so scared growing up, I had this obsession with these people who I assumed were fearless. You know, you look at Bill Gates, you look at Elon Musk, and you just assume they had to be fearless to do what they do. But one of the most surprising things I've learned on this journey is that not only were they all scared, they were actually tremendously terrified. And that was shocking. You know, it wasn't just fear, it was pure panic. And what I've learned is that it wasn't fearlessness that they achieved. It was courage. And the difference, very easy to miss. But it's critically important. You know, the difference between fearlessness and courage is that fearlessness is jumping off of the cliff without thinking. You know, that's idiotic in my opinion. Courage, on the other hand, is acknowledging your fears, analyzing the consequences, and then deciding that you care so much about it, you're going to take one thoughtful step forward anyway.

Oh, that's so good. And it also just, I mean, so much clarity around people who are self aware also can become more courageous because it's kind of. They kind of run parallel.

It feels like, yeah, 100%.

That's so amazing. What was a story for you that you felt freed you up the most or just brought the most insight because of maybe them being vulnerable and sharing how terrified they were?

Ooh, definitely the interview with Maya Angelou. So, you know, as you know, Maya Angelou is one of the most renowned poets in American history.

Love what you know.

One of my personal favorites. And one of the questions I asked her, I was like, how did you. Because she talks about how writing, she has this famous quote that says, nothing so satisfies her as writing and nothing so terrifies her as writing. I asked her, you know how she deals. Look, I like the satisfying part. How do you deal with the terrifying part? And I asked her that. And she starts like cracking up and she's like, with much prayer and much trembling and, you know, hearing someone who's 85 years old laughing about how she still trembles as she does her life's work really shifted my understanding of This I thought, you know, if you just keep working at it, eventually it stops being scary. But even Maya Angelou, at 85 years old, is still trembling as she's doing her life's work. And once you sort of come to accept that, you know, maybe this is just the way it is, that fear is just a natural part of the human experience, just like joy or happiness or sadness. And you sort of. If you have this, like, mental living room in your mind, you know, the really wonderful monk Thich Nhat Hanh talks about, you know, the mental living room where you invite your emotions in, and happiness is sitting on the couch, sadness is sitting on the floor, and then you get a knock on the door, and it's fear. And once you realize that fear is just as welcome as those other emotions and you stop trying to kick it out of your house, and once you come to that acceptance, do things start feeling a lot more comfortable?

Mm hmm. Oh, I love the image that you just put to that, because I. So I do that, but I've never seen it that way, which actually makes it even more comfortable. And honestly, that's the only. I think when you talk to anyone, that's the only way we do anything, is knowing it was when I used to reject it or think I was weak or not like everyone, that it made it seem so much more challenging or scary. Because then you fear that people will see your fear.

Right, Right. As if it's something to be ashamed of.

Yes, totally. Like, what if I throw up? Or what if I fall on my face? Well, everybody feels that, and that has happened to people. So, you know, like, accepting that it's such a part of life makes it so much easier to.

Right. No one's ashamed of breathing, because it's pretty obvious. And there's a consensus that everybody breathes.

Right.

But, you know, we watch movies and TV shows, and the heroes have no fear. So all of a sudden, you become ashamed of your fear. And culture is created not only by things that are spoken about, but the things that are not spoken about. And I really feel that in, you know, these entrepreneurial spaces, people aren't talking about the tremendous amounts of fear that are inherent to the process.

Mm. I mean, I'm scared, like, every day. It's just now I know it's just a part of me. So for you, with your book, because I have a lot of friends who are releasing books right about now who have written books in the past year, and I know that I just. I mean, I feel like I'm still on the journey with you, to be honest. So what was something that you maybe had wrote about or shared or something that shook you before the book came out? Because I know that before my book came out, I literally was scared. Like, I thought that I did the wrong thing. Did you have that with anything? Any part of it?

Yeah, you know, the. So, yeah, this is weird to talk about, but. So one of the benefits of this being the seven year journey is that I had time to write things out and run things by my family and all that stuff. But in the seventh year, in the final year, my dad passed away. He was. He was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. And. What happened was he. I finished. I finished writing the whole book, and then he passed during the editing process. And, you know, I'd never been in a darker place in my entire life. You know, there's something about standing at your dad's bedside and seeing him take his final breath that changes you in a way you can never imagine. And, you know, I, of course, took. I took a couple months off from work, and the time came that I had to write the acknowledgments of the book. And, you know, part of me felt I couldn't just be like, you know, dear dad, thank you for the support. Like, it just didn't feel right. And what I wanted to do was share what that experience was like, seeing him take his final breath and the lesson I feel that he left me with. But what was weird is that my, you know, my writing mentor who I worked on the book with, who, you know, helped me make the book what it is, he essentially taught me how to write. When I wrote my first draft of my acknowledgments, he's like, you can't do this. And what's interesting is that throughout the whole writing process, one of the things he taught me is that the difference between, you know, a writer and an artist, you know, because anyone can just write. But to really be an artist, there has to be a point in your life where you look at what everyone else is telling you to do, and you say, fuck you. I'm doing it my way. And I never really had that experience. But when it came to the acknowledgments, what's weird is my. Like, my own version of Mr. Miyagi was telling me I couldn't do it that way. He's like, look, it's not going to come off the right way. It's. And I think he was right. You know, there was. It's very vulnerable and very raw. But there was a point where I just had to say, like, this is how I want to end this book. And it was really scary, you know, publishing it, because no one outside of my family knew these stories. And what's been one of the most profound parts of this book launch was getting messages from people saying that, you know, their dad's died from pancreatic cancer, or their cousin passed away, or their best friend passed away from cancer. And that reading the acknowledgments for the first time made them feel less alone.

Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that.

Yeah.

And it's out in the world, and it's. So. Does. Does part of that feel. Did part of that feel healing for you to put that out there?

Yeah. There's a weird thing about books, and I'm sure you can relate to this, where it doesn't. Once it gets published, in a weird way, it doesn't feel like your story anymore. It feels like you've sort of, like, carved out a piece of yourself.

Yes.

Put it in a nice little package and sort of, like, put it on this platter called, like, public contributions.

It's so interesting. I know. Exactly.

It's weird, right?

It's almost like you've gone. You've cycled through it. Like, you've. You've gotten all of the juice out of it. You've gotten everything. You've extracted everything that you've needed to, like, be nourished and move forward, and you're. You're kind of like. I don't know, like, it's the pulp. You're like, okay, we're good. Like, here it is. I don't know how to explain it.

Yeah. Like, with my dad, you know, of course, there's hundreds of moments from his passing that I haven't shared, which still feel very much mine and a part of me. But there's something sort of. You know, it's weird to use the word cool to describe something like this, but it's just been interesting to me that almost sharing just even a couple of those stories from that really personal time has, you know, allowed me to connect and help people who I never would have thought that would be helping.

Sharing is the most powerful thing I believe that we can do. Whether it's to help us gain power, to move toward a mission, or for our, you know, stories that are kind of gripping us, for them to lose the power they have over us. I think ultimately sharing just connects us so much more. And the more that we feel connected and as one, the more we don't feel alone. And I think losing someone or having an isolated story, it can feel so painful because you can feel lost and alone.

Right. And you feel you're the only one going through it.

Yes. And that connection of it just connects you on so many levels to knowing it's such a human thing, obviously, for it to happen, but also connects you on hope and beliefs and support and so many other things. So, so powerful, just knowing, you know, you kind of followed. Followed what was needed for that time. So I can only imagine how proud your father was of you, that you really went and did it your way.

Yeah.

So what are you most excited for? Grateful for right now at this moment in your life?

Ooh, right now. They asked me at a good time because my sister's getting married in two days.

Oh, my gosh. That's so cool.

That is exactly how I feel.

Is she in California?

Yeah. We're all. We all live in la. Okay. And it's cool. It's actually weird because so the wedding's in two days, and me and my. I have an older sister and a younger sister who are like, my best friends. And we both, like all three of us, took, you know, the day off of work the past couple days and have just been hanging out and just doing everything together, like going on lunch and going on hikes. And this morning, I made a comment to my younger sister. I'm like, we actually haven't done this since dad passed.

Wow.

Because when my dad passed, you know, it's very obvious that we took the time off and we were together. And there's this, you know, really intense bonding that happens when you're spending all day with people who you love. And because even, you know, with a husband and wife, you see each other in the mornings, you see each other at night, you know, maybe some afternoons. But it's not like a 247 thing during. On a work day. And me and my sisters have been spending, like, 247 together the past couple days, and we've been loving it. And it made me wonder, like, we're so. As human beings, we're so ready to take time off and make space in the darkest of times. And something I definitely want to do moving forward is keep making more space in these really bright times.

Oh, my God, I love that you shared that, because I'm having a similar. I had a similar experience just with travels and dropping in with friends for days and days. I've never done that before. And even with our family, because we just spent the last couple weeks with Our family, it's a different level. It's totally different. And like you said, you know, we do it during the dark times, but what happens when it's just time? It's like the amount of connection and just profound things that come out of it as far as just even self awareness about yourself and your connection with them and how alike you all are. That doesn't happen even in a few hour visit, right?

And like that's my whole thing. Like when my dad, you know, when my dad was passing, you know, no one was on their phone, no, no one was on Instagram, in the room, right on my dad's bedside. But all of a sudden, you know, six months later, we're having a family dinner and everyone's on their phone. And it wasn't until literally the past couple of days with my sister's wedding, like this morning we went on a hike and me and my sisters all, you know, put our phones in the glove compartment of my car and like didn't touch it for eight hours or six hours. And it just felt really good to be doing in theory, sort of the same things we did when my dad was passing, but for a much different reason.

That's so good. I swear there's like the first two, three hours are spent. Like it's just more surface Y stuff and then burn that all away and then you get to another level and then it's kind of like, okay, we could go a little deeper here. If someone says something that triggers you to be more vulnerable or it's just really interesting human connection. Even if you came out of someone's womb, like, you still have to get past surface level with your mom sometimes. And that can take like two, three hours. So how magical. I love that. I'm sure this is resonating with people who maybe feel like they can't get past a certain level and maybe it just takes more time. So really getting intentional with connection and how you're connecting and carving out a bit more is so worth it. Not only is it worth it just because obviously we want to be close to our family, but it's a feeling that really can't be duplicated anywhere else. That level of connection. And it pays off in every area of your life because you then ultimately feel so supported and grounded. Oh, that's so beautiful. So what is something we're wrapping up here? I could talk to you all day long, but let me get you back to.

Well, now that I'm part of you and Chris relationship, maybe I can come.

Hang out more yes, definitely. Oh, my God, you're right. Down the road, we can grill. So what is something that you want people to know from this book? Because what I really want is ultimately for people who need to hear these stories in this book. Who is the ultimate person that you want reading this? Hmm. You're like everyone, you know?

Like everyone. And, you know, although that's definitely still the larger goal, what I've learned is that this book goes really deep for anyone who's, you know, it's not about an age in life, it's really about a stage in life. And this stage in life that this book resonates with the deepest is anyone who's setting out to start something new, who's facing rejection, who's trying to achieve a dream, and, you know, it doesn't even have to be this big, lofty, you know, I want to start a billion dollar company dream. If it's a dream to start a new relationship, if it's a dream to switch jobs, if it's a dream to make the current job that you have just even more fulfilling. Anyone who's trying to make a change in their life and who's facing the natural resistance, not only on the outside from rejection from other people, but also the internal obstacles, this is a book about the quest of how to make that happen. And anyone who wants that help. Not only the practical tools, you know, of course there's, you know, Tim Ferriss has cold email templates and Bill Gates is negotiating secrets like the tools are there. But I think what makes this book so powerful is the possibility it changes what people believe is possible. And when you, like I said earlier, when you change what someone believes is possible, you change what becomes possible.

Oh, that's so good. Yep. That's the quote right there. That's the quote. Tile. I'm so, I'm so grateful for you. I, as I am for you, a deep inner knowing. You're a voice of wisdom for a very, very, very, very long time. And I'm just grateful that you took this time and I can't wait for you to have the most amazing weekend with your family.

Thank you so much.

Where can we get your book?

Where can we find you? Where can we follow you?

So the book is available wherever you love getting books. So whether that's in bookstores and Barnes Noble or on Amazon or Kindle or Audible or, you know, ibooks, Google Play, wherever you like to get books, the third door is there. And if you hear, you know, this podcast and you got the third door because of this, definitely say hi on social so I can give you a giant thank you.

Mmm. Absolutely. And I always end on one last question. Are you ready?

I am very, very ready. Okay.

So you're in an elevator. Of course.

Been in those before.

It's like a 30 second ride. It's like five floors. And a person looks over at you, a total stranger. It's just you two. And they ask, how can I make myself happy? What do you say?

Ooh.

Know that in the end, when you're taking your final breath, all that matters is that you lived life on your own terms. In the end, all the things that you worried about won't exist. And that freedom lets you live a lot happier today.

Okay, maybe that's the quote. Thank you so much.

You are amazing. This is really, really fun.

And you guys, if you loved this episode as much as I did, make sure you share it with your friends. Make sure you let Alex know. And you guys, until next time, earn your happy. Bye, everyone.

Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to share this episode with someone you think would love it, that would be absolutely amazing and we would be forever grateful. Also, please leave us a review if you feel so moved by going to itunes and leaving us an honest thought and honest comment. Tell us what you think, tell us what you want to hear more of. It would really help us out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people. Until then, don't forget to earn your happy. Thanks again, guys.

Bye.

Bye.