349: Take A Crazy Idea and Turning It Into An Empire with Jane Lu

If it's easily achievable, then you would have done it already and it you know every other business like yourself will get will just naturally organically grow. You know you would. That's how you have to set yourself apart from other businesses.

Welcome to the earn your happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of The Bliss Project, 3 Time Fitness World champion, fitness expert and cover model turned self love junkie, lifestyle entrepreneur and author. Each week I'll bring you a guest or a thought that will help you bust through your fears, connect to your soul and get focused and clear so you can elevate your life, business and relationships. We don't wait until we're ready for someone to tell us we're good enough. We take what we want and we anoint ourselves, get ready to earn, own and unapologetically rock your happiness every single day. Are you with me? Here we go. Welcome back to the show and today's guest is Jane Liu. She is the founder of Showpo, which started in 2010 in her parents garage and is now an online global fashion empire shipping to over 100 countries. And she did this through being disruptive in the retail space and capitalizing on the use of social media. And Showpo now boasts a cult following of over 3.33 million engaged followers collectively. And she has a team of over 90 across Sydney in her headquarters and distribution center. So Jane Liu has so much enthusiasm for entrepreneurship and she set off to start her first business which failed spectacularly, which she will share all about. And she was undeterred and got right back into business starting an online fashion brand the following month. And now she's a regular keynote speaker for some of Australia's biggest, biggest brands. She's been on stages for audiences internationally and she won entrepreneur of the year in 2015 and Forbes 30 under 30 in Asia. You guys, this woman has done so much in such a short period of time and she truly is somebody who I feel is so incredibly relatable. I really loved her story and I wanted to make it, I wanted to ask questions so that you could see what she tangibly did when she started this online clothing empire. So if you feel like you have an idea, this is definitely a podcast for you, taking it from the very beginning of the idea, from when it feels crazy, from your parents thinking you're insane, from your friends and family thinking you're nuts, to where all of a sudden it starts making money and then you continue on. So I really love how she talks about no matter where at it's going to feel like chaos. And that really helped just for so many different places that I've been and where I'm going and remembering that everybody feels this way. So you guys listen into this interview and we're going to get started. Jane, I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you for coming on.

Thanks for having me. Very excited.

Where are you at right now? Because you said you were traveling.

Yes, so I'm actually in York, which makes this time difference a whole lot better than if I was. I'm normally based out of Sydney.

Okay. I'm like dying to get over to Sydney. So tell us a couple things that you love about Sydney.

Oh, well, it's. I hate to start a podcast by talking about the weather, but, you know, now that I'm here in New York, which it has just experienced a polar vortex, the weather is amazing and I shouldn't ever take it for granted. We have, you know, we have a lot of beaches and just, it's very laid back culture. So. Which is great. And it's a great. I don't know, it's just, you know, when your home is that everything's just beautiful, but it's just, it's so far from everything else. That's probably the one thing. It's our nearest other country. It's like six hours to get to, but.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

Well, at least it's paradise when you're there.

Yes, exactly.

Well, I'm so excited to have you on today because you have built such an incredible business and I really want to know about the entire journey. So I would love if you would just share a little bit about how that all started.

Okay, great. Start now.

Yeah.

Okay. Well, so basically I actually, I mean, I can't even believe I'm in the position I'm in now because I'm literally doing the thing that I like, something I truly love. And I just never imagined this for myself because I actually used to be an accountant.

That's crazy.

And I hate. I hate accounting. I hate. It's accounting and finance, which is just the driest. I'm so sorry to offend any accountants, but it's just, it's not for me because I think you need to have an intention for detail, but I'm like a big picture, blah, blah kind of person. So. So I started working in accounting because it seemed like a career that would offer you a secure future because my parents and I were actually from China and we immigrated when I was 8. And so my parents, it's that whole Immigrant sob story where they left their jobs, their families, their careers. And then they started working in factories and worked as cleaners just so they could make sure that I could build a future, a brighter future. Which meant for them job security and financial security. Which is why for me, all I had ever known was just go down the corporate route, the academic route, the corporate route, and then just to climb the corporate ladder. And so when I turned 18, I actually got offered this very exclusive cadetship program, which meant I actually started working at KPMG, which is one of the big four accounting firms, at the age of 18. And so at the time I was loving it. You know, you start having an income, you're suddenly doing Friday night drinks. And I was actually excited to wear a suit. I know, so naive when you're 18. And then, so I did that about, for about three years and just realized that it was not for me. Like, I hated cubicle life and I realized how bad I am at accounting and I just, you know, it was actually this one specific moment I realized I was behind my computer the whole day staring at spreadsheets and I realized that it's been three hours. Three hours have just passed. So that meant I'm literally three hours more dead than I was. Sorry to get morbid, but I was like three hours more dead. And all I've done is remove this circular referencing from a spreadsheet, which means nothing. And now I'm going to go drown my sorrows in the meatball sub. And like, how is this my life? This can't be. I cannot do this for the next, I don't know, 50 years. So I thought I had to do something else. And then so a friend came to me and she said, hey, do you want to start a business? And I was like, yes. Like, without even caring about what the business was in, we ended up getting to business together. We started running pop up stores in underutilized locations. So like a bar that's not busy during the day, we would set up a market store and we started selling stuff from emerging designers and you know, the business model wasn't very good, but you know, you're just so passionate when you start. You just want to make it. Just like if I just work really hard, I'll make it work. I don't care. I'll make it work. So then I quit my job to work on the business. And then my business partner told me that she didn't want to do the business anymore. So all of a sudden, despite having everything so I had but I had always achieved, I always had really good marks at school. I got my dream, what I thought was my dream job when I was 18 and I had financial security for when you're studying. I was at uni. Everyone's worried about what job they can get. I was one of the lucky ones that already had this before you start uni or college. But then all of a sudden I lost it all. I was unemployed, I had a failed business, I lost all of the money that all my life savings, all the money that I earned, I've lost in the business. And it was in the middle of the global financial crisis. So it meant that I couldn't actually get another job. So I literally hit rock bottom. And so. And you know, I kind of grew up with this major fear of failure and just couldn't believe that I got myself into this mess. And so because I couldn't get, no one was hiring for other jobs at that time. I thought I had to start another business. And then because I was like, well, all I know is accounting and finance or fashion retail from the pop up store. Even though that had failed, I'm like, well, I've got the opportunity to kind of like create my own feature. Not going to do anything in the county of finance. So I guess out of default, by default I started a business and then by default I started a business in fashion retail. And that was tropo.

Wow. So when you were obviously you were like, I'm not going back to accounting because that was enough pain in the beginning to be like, I'm not going back. And you were at rock bottom number one. How long did you feel like you kind of stayed there? What did you do to start things thinking of solutions and what was the next step after that?

Yes. So I think I probably spent about. I was quite lucky. I probably spent a month just like just feeling so lost. And it was actually really hard at the start because for the first six months, so sorry. I started Showpo within a month. But then even the first six months of Showpo I was actually, because I was living at home at the time, I was also an only child. So my parents kind of put all their eggs in the Jane basket and then my parents, I couldn't sacrifice so much for me that I couldn't actually tell them that I had lost it all. I've given it all up to start a business that had failed. So I just didn't tell them.

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So, yeah, so for six months, I just pretended to go to work so I would get up early. And I'm not a morning person, so getting up early sucks when you're not just when. Not just sucks as it is, but sucks when you're unemployed and getting up for the reason. But then I would have to put on my suits, which at this point felt like a clown suit. I hated it so much. And then I would have to get the bus into the city with my mom because she works in the city. So I had to put up this facade for six months. So it kind of like, made me go. It made me not get complacent and have to create change. So for the first month, I kind of just tried to speak to as many people as I could, but at the time, all of my friends were corporate. I didn't even have any. There were no podcasts to listen to for inspiration. And if you wanted to buy an inspirational book, it was still only the Richard Branson's the People who are really made it really big and just seemed really unattainable. Or, you know, I even have Sitting at Home Dummy's Guide to Ready Tail, just, like, very in between, you know? So I just really felt so lost and didn't know what to do. Had no one to speak to. Luckily, I had. I had just the one friend who had his own business. And I approached him, hoping secretly that I could just get a job with him and then learn a lot from him. But he was like, oh, I actually know someone else who wants to start a business. She wants to get into fashion, retail. Let me introduce you to her. And honestly, like, you know, I never. I'm quite skeptical and didn't think it was going to go anywhere. But, you know, when we met, we instantly hit it off. And within. I think the third time we met, we had too many glasses of red wine together and decided to start Showpo together. And that's kind of how it all started.

Okay. So I love that, you know, red wine was the catalyst. Red wine has been a couple catalysts for me. So for you, first of all, if you would. If you would just kind of share with everybody what Showpo is so they can get the overall picture of what it is now. Because I want to, like, rewind to the beginning because I think there's so many people who, whether it's a business model similar to this or something that they want to start on the Side like also give them the permission to not put a cap on themselves because I'm sure if you would have done that, it would not be what it is today. So first of all, if you could tell us what it is and then we'll go back to where the next step after that.

Yes, okay. Yes, absolutely. To give some context. So Chopo is an online. We're an online fashion store for women 16 to 36. But we, so we started off just being a retailer, but you know, in the last five years we've really grown out our design team. So we've got half the styles that we put out, which is. We release 150 new styles a week on our website and half of the designs are our own. So we have. Yeah, it's like we're more than just a retailer now, I guess. We're a brand, a retail store. And what something I'm really proud of is that I think we're more than just like a fashion brand in that we do so much of our own original content. And so the brand in itself is just, it's, it's more than just the fashion itself. So it's, it's, it's quite exciting.

And you've created a community which we'll talk about later.

Yes.

Okay, so you've had your red wine, you've decided to start a business. Where on earth do you start? Are you like, how do we get these clothes? How do we put them out? Were you always interested in clothing?

Yeah, so I actually that's the thing. I mean, I love clothes, but I don't have a passion for fashion just because, like I look at the girls that work with me, like they, like they, I can truly say they have a passion for fashion and I just can't. I'm just not in that league. I just love clothes. But I really love marketing. I love building a business. I love content. And so I think that's kind of like also a point of like a competitive advantage. Quite a differentiation for show pro. And so I, So the only. You know what, what's really, what I love is just the fact that it's everything that Chopra has kind of evolved to become is kind of off the back of the failed business, which at the time I was like, jane, you idiot, why would you do this? I, you know, I was very self loathing about how I even like started, got into that first business and letting it fail and everything that had happened. But then I realized that everything showcase is now is from that. So what I mean is that business we sold emerging products from emerging designers. So your price ranges from 70 to like 300 and upwards. And then from that I realized, and this is before because you know, fast fashion is really big right now. But at the time it wasn't so much and you know, the designer brands were still a lot more prominent, I guess than they are now. So at the time when we had the pop up store, I saw how much more, how much big the growth in fast fashion was, which is why I knew that's the sector within the fashion industry I wanted to get into. And then I saw how laborious and unscalable bricks and mortar was. I mean, it is, but it's so much easier to scale up an online store. I knew that that's what I was going to do. We did a lot of the traditional market marketing methods like flyer drop and like advertising and like print advertising and pr, which was just so expensive for a startup. So with Show Pro I wanted to focus on social media. And then, you know, so like even in terms of stock, like I've never heard of the term consignment before, which means that you don't have to pay for a product until it sells. So with Fatboy, the pop up store, we were able to work with all of our designers on a consignment basis, which is why we were able to get in 50 designers and then we only paid them after anything sold. And so When I started Showpo, I actually was $60,000 in debt, which is like not the position you want to be in anyway, but especially not when trying to start a business. And so how I overcame that was. So I think when you start a business, an online fashion, sorry, an online store, your two main costs are your inventory, your stock and your marketing. So in terms of the stock and inventory, I realized, I knew that there was this consignment term that we can work on. So I said to my business partner, who has a lot more connections than I do, I was like, we should just get someone on consignment, which means then we can really test the market and we don't have to allay any cash because I don't have any. And then he found us a supplier that could sell us on consignment. And that was our first supplier and we still work with them. What you know, and that was great because I didn't, I didn't know anything about fashion. I didn't know what people wanted to buy. So we just put up, we took, we took a sample of every style they had, which is only 40 at the time. Took a. Took photos on the weekend using a free model who. And then we put it on the website. And so we. And then only had to fulfill the stock once it's sold, which was a lot of manual labor because I had to go in every morning and pick all the stock and to fulfill it for that day. But at the time I had a lot of money. I did it, so that was fine. And then I think that your other main costs. The other main hurdle to starting business is marketing. But I kind of got in the whole social media wave before it became as. I mean, still felt big at the time, but it wasn't as pronounced as it is now. And you know, this isn't. So I started the business eight, eight and a half years ago in 2010, you know, and in Australia, which might be a couple of years behind, a couple of years behind the stage, I guess. But we still, you know, our, our main powerhouse retailers, the big ones, they weren't on social media at all. They, they weren't even. They were barely on online. They, even if they had websites, they were more like catalog websites. They weren't selling on their website. So, you know, they kind of looked at social media as probably just a fad and they didn't believe in it or they just didn't get it. And so I started using social media because I couldn't afford any of traditional marketing methods and just it kind of. And, you know, selling to millennials, like, what better way? So I think that's kind of how it was able to just grow from the ground up. So we never taken on external investment. And Even though it's $60,000 in debt, we've grown from there. Like we, you know, I was just in my. It was a big garage business and now we have 150 staff.

Wow. And what are you projected for this year, if you don't mind sharing so people can kind of know what you have created.

Yeah, we have. We're a $16 million business at the moment, but hoping to get to 100 mil. Oh, no, sorry, 100 mil Australian.

It's still really great. Hold on, let me correct that. It's all good.

Yes. Yeah. No, so it's. I think so, actually. It's really funny. So a few years ago, I'm going to slight tangent, but I love the story. A few years ago, I wanted to. The team was still at around 15 people. So now we're 150. Just to give you context of the growth, we had 15 people and I wanted to take our website development in house because, you know, having like a agency build your website, like everything was stalling. And so I spoke to a recruiter and then he basically said, you know, look, if you want to, we wanted a head of technology, a chief technology officer. And he basically said, you know, if you want that person, you need to make him a co founder. Founder. You need to essentially, you need to give him equity. Essentially. What he's saying is, like, no one wants to join your fashion business if you don't give them more, because you're not going to get a really good tech person believing in it. And I just, I was like, screw you. Do not come to my office and tell me what to do and mansplain how to get a cto. So I was like, you know what? I'm going to. And he said, you're not going to get your 100 million revenue target without getting a tech co founder. And I said, you know what? I'm going to get there. I'm going to get to 100 mil and I'm going to get there by 2020 and get out of my office. I didn't say, but essentially get out.

Now I have to do that.

Yeah. I'm like, oh, but now I think we're going to. We'll probably get to that goal this year, which is really exciting. Like before 2020.

Okay, that's. That's amazing. And I love how you can just like, embody it and it just is. But back in, back in the day, I'm sure if you said those, it would be like, are you kidding me? How did you become the person who could start to think of these big numbers and just accept them fully and welcome them into your life and go for it?

So for me, I think that number was probably the biggest I've thrown out. And that was after quite a few years of already having a sustainable business, a growing business. But at the start, I think for me, it's about having the small incremental goals.

Never.

I remember I went to this business course and they said, you know, put down your next five, like your five goals for the next three years. And if it doesn't seem unachievable, then it's not big enough. Like, if it doesn't seem big and crazy. And even then I didn't have a. I didn't have the confidence and belief in myself that it was going to be that, you know, the things, anything that I've changed now, I did not write down, like, I didn't believe in myself that much. I remember writing I wanted to be featured in Business Review Weekly, which is one of the big business publications in Australia. And that was my big goal. But we ended up getting featured later that year and I think that publication doesn't even exist anymore. So for me it's all about the small goals and I think having a big goal like 100 mil when I was starting, wanting this many staff members, the big beautiful office that we have now, the opportunity to travel and do all the things that I'm doing. I think if I had those goals at the start, I probably would have actually scared myself too much because any moment you really had a setback, you just feel so much further away from that goal that I probably would have made me want to give up a lot more. For me, it was just literally at the start my first goal was I just needed to make enough money so I can just get by. And then I wanted to make enough money so I was making more than my accounting job so then I could justify it to my parents. Then I wanted to prove that because with my first business failing, I wanted to prove to my ex business partners that I wasn't a screw up and it wasn't my fault. I think I was driven by a bit of, I mean even this story about the recruiter who told me I needed the tech co founder, like I feel like that gave me this ounce of spite that really pushed me to keep going. So it's all about, I think for me those little goals, like what's just what's next and now. And I think it's only now that we have like a big team. And I realize that it's not just about like motivating myself, but it's motivating the team and inspiring others. And you know, because you have people that want to, they're working for more than just income. They believe in the business. So it's really, you know, now more important than ever to have like a vision and a big goal for everyone to work towards. But for me, like my personal style is just like what's, what's the next step?

There are so many challenges to business that I don't want starting to be.

One of them for you.

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There's so many places I could go, but first I'm going to ask you, you know, having your parents not necessarily support you and maybe having some other people who were like, eh, you need to do this or you need to do that, like really telling you what to do. How did you focus in on just like getting really, you know, linear, focused on what you wanted to do and what you needed to do next and not get stopped up by opinions or worrying about what your parents would think?

Yeah, I mean I kind of just. That's why I lied to them because I didn't want them to tell me because I knew if I had told them every day they would have said because they don't understand how starting a business works because they both have worked for companies. They would ask me every day, have you made money yet? Are you successful? Have you made it? And every day, not only when you have to kind of reassure yourself and back yourself, you have to reassure them, which it just seems like that would be so hard to do and you would just be filled with so much more self doubt. So yes. So I mean, I guess I got through it by lying to them.

I love that though because it's like there's so much about. It's more about just showing them because no matter what you would have said anyway, it wouldn't have mattered.

Yes. To show, not tell. Exactly. And so I think yeah. And in terms of like, you know, all of my friends work corporate. When I Told them I was gonna quit to start a business. They told me that I was an idiot, like, because this is like no one like started business like started business back then. They thought I was stupid, so. And then when my business failed, I was like, yeah, I think they would buy it. So then I started. I really just kind of like avoided, you know, going out seeing some people, which I think it's fine because I couldn't really afford to go out. But I kind of, I don't even know if this is the best thing, but I kind of just like avoided the sit. I just hang out with my business partner a lot and just kind of. And that's the thing. I think it's about surrounding yourself with like good, like minded people. But that's not to say to surround yourself with people who will tell you what you want to hear. You do want to, you know, you still want people to be pushing and challenging you. But I think there's also, you need to find the right people because sometimes people will put you down. I think what's funny is those heaps, some of those people who told me that I shouldn't have started to not start a business because they're like, what do you know about fashion? What do you know about starting a business? They've come to me later to say that they want to start their own fashion business. So what became evident was that me doing what they're too scared of doing brought out insecurities in themselves of whether they should do it or not, you know, So I think. But then you also don't want people to be like, you know, just to tell you, just to pat you on the back. Because I think at the time, I mean, my boyfriend always tells me like, he will always kind of like tell me to be rational. Sometimes I'm like, oh, you know, it's fine if I just like get a job so that it'll be fine even if the business just makes enough so that I'm making more than my accounting job. Right? He's like, no, that's not why. You know, then you're just, you've just created a job so that you work in retail. You haven't, but you want to start a business, you want to build like a company. You don't want to, you don't want to work in retail yourself. So don't just create a job. You know, you still want people to bring you down, bring you back to reality. So it's about finding the good people. Like, you know, they say you are the product of Five closest people around you. And I find so much truth in that. And actually, can I segue into my business group? Because I think this is kind of why I did it. So we, another girl who has her own business, Jen George, her and I, we've been through a lot together and we thought, you know, why don't we get a group of girls get together who have their own businesses. We can just whinge about all the bad times about having a business and we can have people to celebrate our wins with and have a drink, get some wine and just talk. And so we had this group of 20 girls get together and we had so much fun. Just like, you know, everyone's just like on the same wavelength, all very like minded people and like, okay, let's just create a Facebook group so that we can do this regularly and then we can make it public so we can invite our friends to come along. And we're like, oh, what should we call it? This is just a group of 20 people in it. We're like, let's call it like minded bitches drinking wine because that's exactly what we are. And so when we, and we're like, okay, no big deal. And so that was three years ago and now we have almost 100,000 members.

That's always how it happens.

Yeah, and it just really shows that they, there's like a real demand for it. And I think, you know, the feedback, the feedback is in the group, it's just like, you know, there's just, if you jump on, you ask a question about business, you've got like instantly Almost you have 50 other people, women giving you advice and just speaking from their own experience. And I think just having like, I wish I had something like that when I saw that, which is why I'm so passionate about this. Just having people, not people telling you what to do, but people speaking from their own experience. I think I find that so like so much more useful. And I think just, you know, and that's why you have the podcast, you have people sharing their experiences. That's what I think. It's when you go through the tough times, you don't just refer to what you've read in the book. It's someone's story that about how they overcome their adversity. I think that's what resonates with you and that's kind of the motivation you need to keep going. So anyway, so that's, I feel like, you know, having the right people around you is what really helps else. In summary.

Oh my God. It's so important because you are going to default to. Either you're going to default to the opinions and ideas of the people who are closest to you. And if that's someone telling you you can't, you're. That's where you're going to go. So that's exactly, exactly what we always talk about too, is just like, who are you going to go talk to when things are down? Because that's going to determine your next step. So you have. So I feel like you have so much valuable wisdom on marketing. And I want to tell you, for people listening, they're either trying to. They're either. And first phases of kind of marketing themselves as a business or marketing a business that they have, or it's people who have been around a while who are like, what are. Like, what should we know about marketing our business that we are not or that we're missing?

Yes. So, I mean, there's all the obvious stuff that I'm sure you do, you know, about being authentic and posting. I'm not going to go through all of that stuff. But Showburn can get them elsewhere. I guess what's really worked for me is like taking risks in social, like in terms of. And the thing about not just social media in marketing in general, because I think there's, you know, that you can look at what. Well, okay, sorry. The first step is you should see what other people are doing because the answers are right there. So it's stupid not to do something that's already working, but that you can't just stop there. So what I mean is if you have, you know, if you have, if you have like a shoe company and you're on Instagram, look at your Instagram account and look at that of a brand that you love and look at the difference. So all the things that they're doing, like you should be doing, you know, you should give that. Not all of them, but, you know, it kind of their team has already done the research of what works. And then the best thing about like something like social media is you, your audience tells you what they want. You've got instant feedback from the engagement, the likes and comments and then the analytics. But then I think the thing is it's all about doing what's different, what's not done. Because there's so much noise right now. And I can't tell you what that is. But what was great for us was, for example, when what kind of gave Showpo its first lift was when we, when we started. And this is me again. Like drinking red wine, coming up with a great idea. But I was at home on the couch in my tracksuit pants, feeling really sorry for myself, and watching. Drinking red wine and then watching America's Next Top Model. And then they had this for that season, they said that they were having the audience favorite and that everyone can vote in to pick that person. And then so at this time, Facebook Fangate was on, and so you had to, like, follow a page so that you can engage with it. And I was like, oh, my God, why don't we do this? We did this model competition, and then we asked our followers to enter because they're all within our demographic. And then what these girls ended up doing was that they created Facebook events, Facebook groups, and reached out to their entire network, although their friends asked them to vote for them. And then some of their friends would go and enter themselves and then ask their entire list of friends to go vote for them. So it has this amazing ripple effect. And we went from 3,000 followers to 20,000 in a month for free. It was free. And this is 20,000 followers in 2011. 20,000 is a lot now, but in 2011, that was huge. That sets up that puts us higher than most other fashion businesses in Australia. And so we had so much credibility from that. And what that taught me was how strong. I think it taught me how powerful social media was, and it taught me that before a lot of other people realized. And I think that was what was really important and also taught me how great growth hacks are, so. And how powerful they are. So I think from that point on, we just kept trying different things. And, you know, the great thing about stuff on social media, like, I mean, things on the Internet, they say it never goes away, but, you know, you can delete them. So it's just really important to, like, just to try different things and also just to have, like, a niche. Because I think what's really great these days is, like, you can really afford to be niche and really have, like, a strong, unique brand, but have that to have a big viral effect, because it's like when you're trying to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one. So you just kind of. The world is so big, and the Internet has made it so globalized. Like, you just kind of really hone in on what you are. And I think as your brand grows, you can slowly evolve and do more and be more. But I think that consistency at the start is so important.

Was there a tipping point for you as far as your company and as your social Growth. Were they two different things and what do you think they were?

Yeah, I mean, some of the. So I guess the main milestones that has. Have helped us grow was. I mean, at first it's this social media hack because then I just went way harder on social media. So I think the thing about finding a growth hack is once you do that, you've got a license to print money because you just double down on it and that dries up. Until then, you just keep going hard, but it will dry up, People will copy it, other people will think of it, it'll happen. But. So that was, that was great. And then I think just for us, there was investing in more inventory and buying more stock because, you know, before social media we started getting the traffic. So we, once we back that up with more stock, we were just getting more sales. Everything was just working really well. I mean, we had four people working with us and we had achieved a million dollars a month in sales, which is pretty incredible, I guess. And then the next big step was really hiring a bunch of really professional people, people who were much smarter than us because up until then we were hiring people younger than us, less experienced. But having hiring experts really helped us grow.

And you had to hire them, obviously, I'm sure, before you felt ready.

Yeah. And it's just. Yes, go ahead. Oh, no. I'm just like, it's just so scary because you don't know. You don't even know how to find these people and how to interview them. And you're really scared because if they are wrong and not great, they can really lead you astray because you won't even know. You won't even know until it's way too late because it's so beyond your own capabilities.

So how did you know and did you take the risk on people and did it all turn out or was it that you learned really quickly when it was wrong?

Well, so we got. I got very lucky that. So, you know, like people, a lot of times people say, you know, get yourself a mentor, you need a mentor. And I will always say you don't need a mentor. Like everyone talks about needing a mentor. I got pretty, you know, we got to our million dollars a month without a mentor. I was like, like, don't get too hung up on it. You meet someone great, that's good. But so I kind of kept saying that for years, but I ended up finding a mentor who was just a lot more experienced with hiring and just speaking, talking the talk with professionals. So he kind of really helped. He was like the final round interview for a lot of these professionals. And I think he's fantastic. But for someone else who's starting, I would say the thing is, asking someone to be a mentor is like such a big, like it's a big burden. Like, not a big burden. It's a, it's a big commitment for that person and everyone. They might not be an expert in everything that your business is doing because otherwise they would just do your business, you know. So I think it's about finding experts in each field. So, you know, if you want to hire a really great marketing person, maybe just get. Find a someone else that you really respect to just do that final round interview and to screen just for that particular role. And I think that's what I would do if I didn't. If, you know, if I didn't have that contact already.

So what is advice for the business person who is trying to get to their next level? Like, how do you analyze kind of where you're at, what your blocks are? Do you do something every month or every quarter? What do you do with your team to say, where are we really at and what are we, you know, what's a blind spot that maybe we're not seeing? And what do you bring in to get to the next level?

Yeah, I mean, we, I mean, as a team, we do have our strategy dates. But I think particularly for everyone who is listening, what's something that myself and my general manager, who she's been with me for six years and helped me grow the business, what's something that we've done that's really helped us is we write out all of our problems and then you kind of, you mind map it in a way that you can see that this problem leads to that problem. It's kind of hard to explain, I guess, but like, you kind of dump every single problem you have, and then what you'll find that is like you end up finding the root causes for these problems, which sounds, it sounds easy that you're just saying it, but you'd be surprised how much it's not until you just really put it down to paper. Because so, for example, we, I mean, we realized that we had. So we had all these small problems. Like, I mean, I won't, I won't listen. Bore you. But we had all these problems and then we realized the problem is that we weren't hiring properly and that we were hiring too slowly. And so we realized that we needed to. But it wasn't just hiring these experts that I was saying that we needed to bring in ahead of people and culture, which I think sounds really crazy for a business that has about 15 employees to do. But that's when we decided to bring in a really senior HR professional to help us. And I think that's all just from realizing that. Okay, so, for example, we're doing a campaign shoot and the campaign isn't what we envisioned, but that comes down to, like, we didn't have someone to own the campaign process. So, like, it's all these different levels of problems that trickle down to the fact that we needed someone to help us hire more professionally and hire faster and better.

Okay, so question for you. For someone who has a smaller team, and, you know, I know a lot of people who work from home with their businesses like me. We have a team that ranges anywhere from like five to eight people. Some are. Some are local, some are. Or some are in house, some are online or spread out throughout the U.S. so for someone, for a team that's a bit smaller than 15, let's say, even if you're just. Let's just even say like three or four for really owning projects, it feels like a lot of things, if you're running your own business, can fall by the wayside or, you know, it does feel like sometimes people don't really take ownership of the projects because in the beginning of a business, there's so much going on. Right. It's like, guess what? You get to wear this hat, this hat, this hat, and this hat. And then next month it might be totally different. How did you manage within the chaos in the beginning when you weren't quite there before you hired that person for creating a culture and owning the projects?

Oh, honestly, I feel like there's. There's not that. I feel like it's still chaotic now. So don't. First of all, don't want. I actually felt like we had our shit together way more when it was like just a few of us. In that respect, it's a different. It was chaos. It's chaotic on a different level, and it's always going to be chaotic. So don't, like, first of all, don't even worry. But I think it's. I guess it's ultimately like a. Some of it is an 8020 rule, I guess, and that it's just there's an opportunity cost to getting everything perfect and that actually will stunt your growth. So I think it's okay to accept a level of like. But I think for us, what we always do is we have. We always have, like, really pay Attention to the learnings from everything that we do, but we actually literally document it. And then so we make sure, we try to make sure it doesn't happen again. Because at the end of the day that's like a really valuable lesson. You know, like it's, it's that saying like, you know, if someone, someone in your team makes a, loses you $10,000, would you find that person? No, because you just spent $10,000 investing in that lesson for them. So. Well, unless they're a total idiot. But so, you know, and the thing is like when you, when you think you do make mistakes, I think it's actually, you know, it's actually great because you're doing it now and not when you have more at stake and the business is bigger. But yes, I think it's really, there are people who just like are so committed and I'm the one that has to tell them like it's okay, don't worry. Like, let's just, let's, you know, I have to tell them it's fine. Like compared to some people who just, they don't really care nearly enough. So I think it's about finding the right people. And so, and you know, I'm not saying go get yourself a HR professional within the team, but just like to really delve down to what the core problem is as opposed to like so you're not putting out fires all the time and you're just doing that and sometimes it's one big change that sounds like it sounds impossible. But you know, I don't know, I feel like it sounds too scary. But that's the thing. I think it's all about doing those things that are big and scary. Because if it seems, if it's doable then, and that's kind of, if it's easily achievable, then you would have done it already. And every other business like yourself will get, will just naturally organically grow. That's how you have to set yourself apart from other businesses.

So what's some of your biggest failures that have turned into amazing lessons for you? And let's just talk about even this last year.

So we didn't scale up our customers happiness team enough for growth. So the business was growing and we were projecting high growth, but we weren't hiring enough people to man the tickets and man our phones. Over one weekend, over the Easter long weekend, which is a four day long weekend, we had a coupon code for a sale that didn't work. And so everyone started emailing in about the sale and Then we also had some delays in shipment as well at the same time. But it was. Was all of a sudden, so we have a end of day KPI where we don't want more than 100 open tickets, just like at a certain time of day. And that got. That number went from 100 to. It got up to 4,000.

Oh, man.

It blew out. And then. Yeah. So we, so we kind of realized that, you know, we needed to, you know, we kind of needed to go from this small business mentality where we kind of. We want to minimize costs and we kind of like, I mean, we still. We're constantly battling with this because you want to. We don't have investment. We have. We want the business to grow sustainably so that it doesn't blow out. We don't overspend. So we kind of like, we don't want resources sitting there idly. But then we, you know, that's what we kind of learned that we. If we want to grow, we need to kind of like, spend early, spend ahead, and just like, really back up, really back ourselves and plan for that growth. Which sounds obvious, but we weren't doing this.

Yeah, that's so true. Spend early, man, that's. And that's some of the scariest things I think for entrepreneurs to hear is, you know, the theme of everything that you've been talking about has been kind of like, I invested back, I made this, then we invested back. And then you have to spend early and you have to prepare for growth. And it's like, if you want to grow, you really do have to think in terms of that and put the money back in. And I think for a lot of people, especially new business people, they're just like, oh, when I make money, that's. You can get the mindset. You're like, oh, that's my money. Like, this is now what I'm making. And you're like, actually, no, you. When you're creating a business, right, it's like, you may not be making a lot at all in the beginning if you really want to get to where you want to go. So for you, when was it that you got to sit back and be like, not that you're sitting back, but that you got to be like, oh, my God, like, this is true. Dramatically shifted my life, and this is something that's going to be somewhat regular moving forward.

I actually don't remember that moment.

You're like, I was too in it.

Yeah. I didn't take an income for, like, I think three years.

Wow.

But I Think I was just like pulling out money to pay for credit cards whenever I need it. But I never like actually took an income. God. Yeah. I don't know. But I think that's so important for.

People to hear though is like there wasn't even a shift because your passion was probably just like, wow, no matter what, you were committed to it. So were you committed like that from the beginning or did it just switch or what? What was the moment when you were like, I am in this. Like, no matter what, this is not gonna go down.

Oh, I think, I think just it's always, I've always been thinking like that. I just never thought. And I think especially the biggest, the bigger chopper's the brand got, the more I was like, this is. This is it. Like the bigger it got. I'm like, well, I'm never going to be able to do this again. Let's make this work. Like, I don't have to start over because there's a lot of people who are like serial entrepreneurs, but I don't think I am. And I think serial entrepreneurs get bored when they're working the business and they're just doing more day to day things. Whereas I think now I'm actually doing more exciting things because the business is growing. I feel like I'm actually doing more new things. So I wouldn't really. I think I've just been really like, this has been it from the start for me almost. And because it hasn't been about the money, it didn't take long for myself to be in a place where I was financially comfortable and then that was it. I don't really need much more than just comfortable. I want my parents to be taken care of. But even my parents are like very like, they have a very like hobo lifestyle. So poverty's Australian slang for poor. They just like, they just don't take much to look after. So I think we're just it just as soon as it clocked over to like making more than my regular, like what I would make as an accountant, even beneath that, I just haven't really thought about it. I think the best thing has been the fact that I've been able to hire people to do the things that I don't like doing. And so I think that's my Instagram handle is the lazy CEO. Because I just thought that I think one of the most valuable lessons has been if I get other great people to do what I'm doing to do a better job, then, well, it's actually good to be lazy. And to let go, because they are way better than me to do something that they're really passionate about and specialized in. And so every time I feel like for me, it hasn't been really about the money, but every time my quality of life increases is when we hire someone to take something away from me. So, for example, we just. The last hire that we have is our cfo. So taking away all the accounting and finance, because ironically, even though I wanted to get out of accounting finance, I was still doing it for the company until maybe like a year ago. I'm like, how did I do this? I'm, like, doing my dream job, but I'm still an accountant. And so that was like, my quality of life literally shifted and improved. My stress levels have gone down. I'm just a happier person.

That's such valuable advice is hiring people for what you don't want to do and you're not good at because just the energy that you get back to be able to put into what you do love is going to grow you so much faster. So we've basically run out of time. So I would love. Clearly, we can both talk. So I would love for you to share just any last bit of advice for people who are in a business who really would love to even experience a sliver of the growth that you've experienced.

Yes, I think. Well, the thing is about me, I always say, like, you have to just take risks, but when you risk anything, like, do not risk more than what you're willing to lose, because you take the risk and you'll learn. You have to note down your learnings, and then you can need money then to go and reinvest using your learnings. And so I think that's how you can. You can kind of keep doing different things and keep growing the business, but you never, like, put yourself at risk of the business going down.

I love that we actually have, like, you know, we always put different money aside just for risks because I'm always like, well, well, how you. How are we ever gonna know? Like, how will we ever know if we didn't do this? And to me, it's more exciting to do that now than, you know. I just think I can't imagine life without doing it, like, because all of the good things come from that. So I'm so grateful for you. Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us. There's. I know that there's just, like, so much more that we could have chatted about, but I'm so grateful for your wisdom, and I'M also wondering where we can find you and where we can follow you.

You. Oh, amazing. So I'm on YouTube. I'm on Instagram and YouTube as the lazy CEO. The website is showpo.com S-H-O-W P O.com. also on Instagram and YouTube as well, and also on LinkedIn buddies.

And by the way, I looked, I was looking at your site and I'm like, so I'm a clothes junkie. So I was like, oh, I know.

I see your website. I'm like, you, I'm gonna have to send you some show pro because.

I will gladly take it because I was literally, it was right before I got on here with you, and I was like, lori, get out of the vortex. Stop it. Like, you need to not not shop and keep researching. So I'm like, oh, my shopping is my research right now. It's fantastic.

Yes.

So I'm so grateful for you. And I always end on one last question. Are you ready?

Yes.

Okay. So you have a quick encounter with someone. It's a total stranger. It's like 30 seconds. You could be in an elevator or just in passing, and they look at you and they ask you, how can I make myself happy? What do you say?

More wine, less wine. That works better written.

More wine or less wine?

Wine. W H I N e. That's amazing.

That is amazing. Okay, thank you so much.

And you guys, if you love this.

Episode as much as I did, make sure you share it with your friends. And until next time, earn your happy. Bye, everyone. Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to share this episode with someone you think would love it, that would be absolutely amazing and we would be forever grateful also. So please leave us a review if you feel so moved by going to itunes and leaving us an honest thought, an honest comment, Tell us what you think, Tell us what you want to hear more of. It would really help us out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people. Until then, don't forget to earn your happy. Thanks again, guys.

Bye. Bye. It.