391: Create raving fans and learn how to get people excited about your message with Laura Belgray

Hi, everyone. I'm so happy you've tuned into the show. Whether you have listened before or you're brand new, I'm so grateful for you. You have no idea. And this episode is brought to you by my Become Aligned course. And podcasts are amazing. And I know that you know that because you guys all listen to them, and I do, too. And sometimes they are not necessarily enough because while we're listening, sometimes we're passively listening and we're not actively listening. So the reason that Chris and I. Chris is my husband. The reason we've created this course is because we get asked so many questions outside of the podcast on how we started living the life that we live now. A life of happiness, of abundance, of really understanding that life is always full of problems every single day, but there's always a solution. And how do we shift back into a mindset that's going to keep us happy, keep us together, keep us successful, and keep us in thriving relationships? And that is what our, our Become Aligned course is about. You guys, we cover everything from mindset to the rituals that we do every single day. We talk about different energy sources that's really gonna provide you with lasting energy. We talk about your purpose and what that actually means, what it is and how it's ever changing. We're gonna tap into your beliefs, we're gonna show you how to build a tribe to support where you're going. And we're definitely going to talk about wealth, abundance, money, all of the good things, and how to sustain all of this. Because while, like I said, POD are absolutely awesome, you don't necessarily sit down and actually write out a plan for yourself. Because as much as I can sit here and tell you on the podcast, what we do and how much, how many different people that I can interview, it's important that you actually learn how to apply these things in your own life. So if you've been listening for a while and you are ready to go deeper and you really want to get some direct training and be able to dive into your life and yourself and your mindset, this is the course for you. I don't know about you, but I absolutely have points in my life where I don't know where I'm going. I don't know what I'm doing. Sometimes I hit walls where I don't necessarily feel happy anymore, and I haven't sat with myself long enough. I haven't really let myself think. I haven't written out how I actually feel. And so many people who took this course said that it was completely life changing and they revealed a lot of things about themselves, about them, about their lives, about their relationships that they weren't really looking at or they were avoiding. And it's about having those tough conversations, not only with other people, but really with yourself and knowing that you have the tools and the access to the tools. And we're going to teach you all of the tools that you need not only to move through things, but to actually thrive on the other side. So, you guys, I would love for you to join the aligned community. It's such a special group of human beings and you get lifetime time access. This is nine different modules where you're going to be working through each area of your life at your own pace. So you might need something on abundance, you might need more on, you know, money, you might need more on your purpose on your tribe. This is where you can really go deep on exactly what you need and make sure that you're not missing any of your blind spots. If you are feeling stuck or if you are wondering how everyone is doing it and how they're managing it all. This is a truly honest course about how to have a thriving life and manage and deal with all of the different problems that do come up in your life and understand that not everyone is going to support you and not everyone is for you and you are not for everyone. And that's okay. It's finding your people, it's forgiving yourself. It's creating a life of abundance and choosing your own purpose and your happiness. So, you guys, you can go to becomealigned.com that's becomealigned.com and you guys know that because you're listeners, I'm going to give you an awesome deal and an awesome discount and I cannot wait to see you in that community. And also let me know if you join because it is such an awesome, awesome community. And also I'm really proud of this course. Chris and I poured our heart and our soul into this. Everything that we've done, everything that we've learned, we've invested so much, so much into ourself that this is everything that we have applied in our lives. And if you want to know how we've done it, we put it all on the table. We've put it all in this course. So if you want to know, go check it out@becealigned.com so let's get into the show.

You are delivering value. If you make someone feel something, if you make them laugh, or if you distract them from what they're feeling right now and they're needing a distraction. You're delivering value if you make them see something a little differently or if you say something that they were already thinking and wish that they had said themselves.

Welcome to the Earn your Happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of The Bliss Project, 3 Time Fitness World champion, fitness expert and cover model, turned self love junkie, lifestyle entrepreneur and author. Each week I'll bring you a guest or a thought that will help you bust through your fears, connect to your soul and get focused and clear so you can elevate your life, business and relationships. We don't wait until we're ready for someone to tell us we're good enough. We take what we want and we anoint ourselves. Get ready to earn own and unapologetically rock your happiness every single day. Are you with me? Here we go. Welcome back to the show. I'm really excited for you to meet my guest, Laura Belgray. And it's so funny because as I was looking back over my emails to go and look up all the good stuff to record her bio, I found my emails to her from 2014. So I have been a fan since 2014 and I wrote her and I was like, oh my gosh, I love your work. I would love to work with you, but I'm not sure that I could even afford you and I couldn't. So it's so funny because I think I talk a little bit about that in the podcast. But this woman is a brilliant writer, a brilliant communicator, and she has so much that can help you with communicating your message, whether in person, speaking, in copy, in your programs, from stage, whatever that looks like, from your podcast, from, you know, your sales copy, whatever that looks like. So I know you're going to enjoy this conversation because I absolutely loved it and was asking all the questions that I wanted to know. So. Laura Belgray is the founder of the Talking Shrimp and co creator of the Copy Cure with Marie Forleo. She's been a professional writer for nearly two decades and won big fat awards for her work. After graduating Phi Beta Kappa from Wesleyan University, she assisted Lisa Burn Patch of Preppy Handbook Frame and research and fact checking for her book Lisa Burn Box Guide to Colleges. She went on to write advertising copy for the legendary Spy magazine and then New York Magazine until one day her friend Adam told her about this new job writing promos for VH1. She asked what what are promos? And Adam explained that he got to watch a bunch of TV and write those Fun little spots that advertise the shows. And first she said, that's a job, and then she went on and got that job. Since then, she's written promos, launches campaigns, upfronts, online content, book chapters, full show episodes, and more. She does things for Bravo, NBC, HBO, TBS, Nick at Night, Nickelodeon, TV Land, Nick, Mom, VH1, Sundance Channel, We, Lifetime, Oxygen, the CW and USA. You guys. She has worked with insane celebrities. She is writing her. Her writing has earned numerous honors, including the big daddy of promo awards, Promax Best of show. This was for her favorite project ever, Tony and T. TV Land in Demand, a rap video starring Tony Randall and Mr. T. You guys, this woman is mind blowing, amazing. She's so creative. And I can't wait for you to listen in on this podcast because that writing that I just read was just a little teeny, tiny flavor of how she brings her personality into her writing and how she's going to pull that out of you so that your people can find you, connect with you, see you, understand you, and purchase your stuff, which is also really freaking awesome. So let's get started. Laura, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for coming on.

Oh, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

This is so fun because we have a mutual friend who we were both just discussing Jen Gottlieb that we. When we met her, we were just like, have we known you forever? This is amazing.

Yeah, she's just. Either she's just one of those people or we're just one of two of those people.

Yeah, we've decided that we're just. We're all just awesome. So we're gonna leave it at that.

Yeah.

Nobody else gets to tell us because it's just us two on this recording. So that's amazing. So, Laura, I literally, I don't think you even know this. I. In the beginning of my, like, I don't even remember pretty much when I was launching some of my first courses, I had reached out to you and you got on the phone with me for like 15 minutes and rocked my world. I couldn't afford you yet, but you pointed me in the direction of a bunch of different women for copywriting. And that was like game changing for me. So I, I found your website and fell in love with you. I was just like salivating and laughing and I was like, this is just her website.

Oh, my God, that's so nice. Wait, did I find you someone good? I hope so.

Yes.

You know what? You pointed me. I think you pointed me in A couple different directions and I followed up on both of them. And I remember it was good. It was really good. And then we just, I just, I have, you know, afforded who I could afford and then I moved on from there. But I did not know what I was doing. I was doing all of the things wrong that you talk about basically talk about on your website and in your emails. And you know, it's funny because I was just, I was telling you previously, I was just going down the vortex of your site and all of your writing and just everything that you offer on your website and even in, you know, the emails that you send out to people when they sign up. Like you have so much value, it's valuable just to go to your Instagram page and read how you write.

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Thank you. Like, I just.

Oh, it's so much fun. So what I want to do today is I know that this is going to bring massive value to people. So one of the things that I would love for you to share is just, what is your zone of genius? And how did you discover that?

Oh, God. I mean, seriously, the first thing that comes to mind when you say, what is my zone of genius? Is sitting on the couch, which I'm doing right now, and. And watching Bravo shows, which I'm not doing right now. I swear. Like, I honestly, I truly believe, and I've said this many times, that if someone were to pay me to sit on the couch and watch Bravo shows with them, like, I would be absolutely fulfilled for the rest of my life if that could be my job. And I just think that I'm excellent at that. I think I excel. But other than that, I would say writing and writing in a way that gives other people permission to be who they are.

So what's something. When you're watching your Bravo shows, do you love watching them because what's the main reason? Or do you sit there and you're like, oh, I know that I could help with this, or I know I could write about this, because I know that you also do work in TV as well.

Well, that's true. But no, it's. It's.

No, it's strictly entertainment.

Strictly entertainment. It's not in how I would add value to these people's lives at all. I don't want to, because I don't want them to change because I really thrive on their conflict. I don't. I hate conflict in my own life. I avoid it at all costs. I don't like difficult conversations with people, but I love watching other people's conflict. Conflict that doesn't involve me.

Yeah, it makes us feel way better about our lives. So you do things for. You do things in tv, you do copywriting, you work with entrepreneurs. What is your favorite thing to do?

My favorite thing to do is write my emails. Wow. I love writing emails to my list. I always, I used to go over and over this in my head, like, how can I make a living? Because nobody. So far, there are no takers, like, pay me to watch Bravo.

We're going to figure that out.

We're going to figure that out. I mean, there's always work involved. If they do, like, we'll pay you to watch Bravo and then write a promo. No, I just want to watch.

Right.

But so other than that, I always wondered, how can I get paid to write what I really love to write, which is just write emails to my friends? And I finally figured it out. Like, writing to my list. If I make those just emails to my friends, which they are, I consider the people on my list my friends. And that's how I write to them. That is now I finally figured out that is what pays the bills. Like, I figured out a way to make it pay. And so now I really feel like, okay, I get paid to write emails to my friends.

Oh, my God, I love that so much because it's so basic. And you're like, how did I not think of it that way? Like, that's the most beautiful thing. But I think sometimes when I'm sitting down, I'm like, okay, I'm going to write this email to my friend. And then I'm thinking, wait, I would say this to my friend, but I'm afraid to say it to my list. Obviously, that's probably a huge thing that you hear from different people. What do you say?

Yeah, I think especially if you're afraid to say it, that's the thing that you've got to say. Crap. Yeah. Well, first of all, anytime that someone says to you, I'm afraid to tell you this. Aren't you? Like, oh, no, now you've got to tell me.

Oh, I'm leaned in. I'm like, laura, what are you afraid to tell me right now?

Right. All the way. What are you afraid to say? Or if someone says, like, I've never told anyone this except for my best friends you're like, oh, now you've got to tell me. So anything that you are afraid to say, for sure, your list wants to hear it.

So I have a question around that. Do you feel like if we start saying that and we start writing that way, that we can kind of wear people out if we're always saying that? Or do you think it's really valuable to kind of like, really talk weekly or monthly or whatever your emails go out for? Like, what's real in that moment and just thinking of different ways to start it each time? Like, how do you do that? How do you make it fresh about things that you are either afraid of or what are your. What is kind of your cycle of your emails, you think to keep people interested?

Yeah, well, you got a point there. You don't want to sit. You don't want to start every email with, I'm afraid to tell you this, but, well, unless that was your thing. If you're like, sign up for my emails, I'll tell you something I'm scared to say every week. Actually, that could be really interesting. But you still want to start a different way every time. Because anytime you have something that's like, you know, newsletter issue, you know, number 631, nobody wants to open it because it's like, I mean, they might even if they're a fan, but if it's kind of, if it feels like one of many, like the same thing every week, a new version of last week's, they're going to be less inclined to open it. You've got to start with what's different about it, with something they haven't seen before or they won't remember seeing or they haven't seen for a while. So I don't do, like, I'm afraid to tell you this every week, but I do always try to start with something intriguing when I sit down to write it. I don't know what the subject line is going to be yet. I don't know what the first line is going to be or what the hook is going to be. I usually just sit down and start to write something that just happened to me or, I mean, sometimes it's a struggle. I'm like, I have nothing to say today. And then I go through, like, what happened this weekend or what happened this week or what. Maybe I'll, you know, I'll open the paper if I'm really fresh out of stuff or, and see if there's anything that I can talk about, anything that makes me mad or that I think is Funny or ridiculous. I'll look everywhere for inspiration. I'll look in my. I keep a bank of stories in Evernote, so whenever something. Either it can be tiny, I notice something tiny. I overhear something that I think is funny, but I have no idea what I'll connect it to. Or something happens to me at the grocery store, like a cashier annoys me, which happens often. I will write it. I'll just write that down in Evernote and figure out later how I'm gonna connect it to something, how I'm gonna turn it into an actual point.

I love that you said that, because it really has been game changing for me just to write down one sentence because no matter how much I'm on a run, and I'm like, I'll remember that. I'll remember that. That's huge. I'm like, crap.

What was that? Oh, 100%. I actually. I think I have an Instagram post from a while ago that just says, write it down. Genius. I mean, we're all kind of idiots about our own memory thinking that, thinking how like that. It's way better than it is.

Yeah. No, I never remember.

You'll never remember. I'm always like, oh, my God, I had something so good. I mean, there was one time someone. I was having a conversation with someone, and someone. She was an artist who I really respect, and she's so smart. And I said something, and she's like, that should be a T shirt. I'm like, oh, you're right, that should be a T shirt. And I didn't write it down. And I was so annoyed with myself that I actually created a T shirt that says, this should be on a T shirt. Because that's all I had to say. I'm like, something. I know I had something that should be on a T shirt. So that's a T shirt.

That's amazing. So you really are, you know, a genius at making your personality the brand and helping people make their personalities the brand. How did you get started in that? Like, what. What was it for you that you were like, wow, I'm really good at this, Or I can really see where this person is going wrong.

I think that it was a combination of things coming from TV promos which have to talk in a conversational way. Like, that's always the promotional style that kind of. That I grew up with as a professional, that it has to sound like a person talking. So when I. When I got into. So that was part of it. When I got into the online world and started helping Private clients who, you know, needed help with their websites and communicating what they do. I saw right away nobody knows how to talk like a person, just for starters. And that was the common thing that they came to me with. They said, I'm really fun. I can talk, you know, all day long about what I do in person. And people really love my personality and I'm actually a really funny person. But none of it is coming out in my copy. And I was able to pinpoint why. I think that's just maybe it's a natural gift that I have that I spotted right away that I hadn't studied this. I just spotted right away that people weren't using contractions, for instance. And you know, it. Their website would say, hello and welcome to my website. Here you will find a community and I will teach you to blah blah, blah. And then I'm like, what about Yule? I've weir, you know, why don't you. Why does no one write in contractions? I realize it's because our English teachers drilled it out of us and told us that's not the right way to write. Or people come from the corporate world or the legal industry, like where that kind of thing is crossed out with a red pen all the time. So that was number one. And I think I've just been studying it all this time. Like, what is it that adds personality to copy to writing, and what is it that takes the personality out of it?

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Do you think there are like three tips that add personality writing that you have found that you have been able to just pinpoint?

Yeah, sure. Well, one of them for sure is contractions and formal. Like formal writing takes all the personality out of it. If you read your stuff back to yourself, read it out loud, and you find yourself naturally changing it as you read it or you don't. And it sounds like you are reading from a legal document. If it sounds like you are reading out loud, then you must change it. You change it the way, like, change it to sound like the way you want to say it out loud generally. So that's contractions using sentence fragments, which we're also told not to use by our teachers and other other things like that. So don't, don't mistake formal for professional. I like to say that conversational is the new professional. That is what we look for in a brand. Is, is it conversational? Does it sound like a human? And then another really important thing is using concrete details when you write. So by that I mean, if you were to paint a picture of what you are describing, or if you were to direct it in a movie scene, would you. Would we know, like, would you know what to draw? If you were to hand the thing that you're writing to an illustrator, would they know what to draw? Or if you handed it to a movie director, would they know what kind of a scene to create? Or is it just completely vague and devoid of details? For instance, if I were to say, you know, a few years ago, I was at rock bottom. I was in the darkest place of my life. I didn't know how I was going to move on from there. It was a, you know, it was a dark, dark time. But I overcame my challenges and, you know, did bold things and now I'm on the rise. You know, people write these stories all the time and I have no idea what you're talking about. What do you mean you were in a dark place? What does that mean? Like, were you literally sitting in a dark corner of the room, like with all the, with all the lights off, like fetal position? You know, were you in, you know, were you wearing the same dirty sweats every day. Not that that has to mean a dark place. That's.

Am I in a dark place right now?

Might be. Right. So were you living in your dirty sweats and a crying on your laptop while you stalk your ex on Facebook and ate nothing but Doritos for three days? Or does it mean that you didn't talk to any of your friends for three weeks? What does a dark place look like? Anytime you're describing something, especially that tends to be cliche. And the same kind of story arc that we've seen over and over. There are no new stories can add personality to it by adding in those concrete details. Let us paint a picture. Let us see what you're talking about.

That's so good.

And that's what makes it original. That's what keeps you from being a copycat.

It's so hard to forget that when we're just putting ourselves out there in anything. Like, when I was writing my book, I tried to ask myself that over and over, because I would sit and read and be like, why do I like this woman's writing? And it really was because of exactly that. It was because I could legitimately put myself exactly where she was and see it in my head. So we love those pictures and that imagery. And then sometimes I go completely forget to add this element to my Instagram posts or to my emails. It's, like, so easy to skip over that, I think, because it can feel like, oh, God, I'm just gonna admit it. It just feels like a lot of work. But then those fall flat.

Exactly. Oh, it's so worth the extra work. And it also makes it a joy to write. Like, you start finding yourself having fun with it because of the picture you're painting and because you become more observant of what things look like, of what things sound like. When I took a writing workshop with an author named Dani Shapiro, who's on the. I think she's still on the New York Times bestseller list right now for her book Inheritance, which is great. And she started. I've now stolen this exercise for my workshop in Italy, and I love sharing it. She had us draw a quadrant, like on our. On a fresh piece of paper, but draw a big quadrant and in one, like in the top left, I'm probably going to screw this up. I'm doing it from memory. So you write at the top, you write heard. And then. So top left is heard, top right is saw. Yeah. Bottom left is did. And then the last quadrant is a doodle. And I forget how many items you write for each. But, like, so you think in the last day, what are five things I saw, five things I heard, five things I did, and then a doodle of anything that you remember. And it's kind of a different sort of journaling exercise that you can start the day with. And it teaches you to be way more observant, to, like, just start noticing things, start eavesdropping, or. It doesn't even have to be, you know, heard. Doesn't always have to be conversation. It can be, you know, I heard a pigeon thump against the window and slide down. I always go dark. Yeah.

Oh, I love. You know what? I absolutely love this because when you were talking about, you know, you sit in front of your emails, and sometimes there's, like, nothing. You have to have things like these to start to just jog your senses because we're just, like, so out of body so often that it's like, you have to. I remember sitting. I had book deadlines, right? For. For my book, and I was like, oh, my God, I have, like, I have nothing left. I have nothing to say. And thankfully, I was in a coffee shop that day, and I literally just started pretending to tell the stories of the women around me. I was like, okay, let's really sit and observe. And it turned into one of my favorite chapters because I was just like, what's around me? Oh, my God, please help me.

Oh, that's so good. I love that exercise. I think everyone should steal that.

I do, too. I totally agree.

It is great. Go to a coffee shop and make up stories about everyone around you. I love that.

It's really entertaining. So what are the main. I want to know the main blocks that you always hear from people that you work with. What are the main struggles of sharing your personality with your people or when it comes to writing, whatever those main blocks that you work with and help people break through.

Yeah, I mean, one is what I covered. It's like, I don't know how to. I don't know how to write like I talk. Although often people write me emails saying, I wish I could. You know, I wish I could write like I talk. I wish I could put personality into my copy. And they write me these amazing emails as they're saying that they'll tell me all these fun things about them. Usually just these weird and funny details, like, you know, I didn't eat a banana till I was 25. Strange things like that. And I'm like, you're fabulous at writing. Like, you talk. You have no idea how good you are at it. The problem is that you sit down and switch into I am writing now business mode, you know, and you put on your little beret, imaginary beret or business suit with shoulder pads. Somehow like end up holding a briefcase, an imaginary briefcase while you write. I think that is the problem that you just got all caught up in. This is supposed to be professional. Now I am a business. But you know that you're never, whatever you're writing, whatever you're communicating, you are never a business writing to a business, you're always a person writing to a person. So that's like, that's number one. Another thing people say they struggle with is that they're really afraid of alienating anyone or turning anyone off. It's like, oh, well, I don't, you know, I don't want to write about how much fun I had at the barbecue because then all the vegans are going to be mad at me and unsubscribe and I'm like, well, you know, maybe you don't want those vegans if they're so mad at you for like, if, if they are only on board because they think you're a vegan, then get rid of them anyway. But the thing is you never, you can never please everyone. You can never create anything great with the objected with the objective. You can never create anything great with the objective of not turning anyone off. That is not going to happen. Yeah, go ahead.

Have you ever had people say to you? Because I hear sometimes people say like, I don't know what I'm good at or I don't think I have anything good to say. And I'm like, okay, well you're in an interesting career for that. But is there any exercises for you around people actually trying to kind of pinpoint what their standout points are in their personalities?

Yeah, I mean they're all different ways of finding your personality. I like to use what I call a coat of arm, kind of an another little exercise. So you know what a coat of arms is or like a family crest?

Oh, yes, yes, right.

It's like what in, in olden times, like a castle, a kingdom would have a coat of arms that the knights would have on their actual armor with symbols that represent what that kingdom stands for. Or, or a school. My old high school, which was an all girls school, had like a stack of books, an oil lamp and a beaver because our mascot for the all girls school was the beaver. And it's just moving on anyway. So you can come up with what Are four things that you think represent you, four things that you love, four things that you're obsessed with? One of them, it might be one of your values. It might be a favorite food, it might be a favorite show. Like what. What themes do you keep returning to over and over? One of them might be a struggle or a desire in your life. Like, it might be money. So what themes do you always return to? What do you obsess over? What do you talk about all the time to your friends? I mean, we've already established that Bravos Real Housewives is on my coat of arms. Maybe there might be, like, an ear to an ear to a door because I love eavesdropping. Maybe a bowl of spaghetti, because I'm always talking about spaghetti and my love of it. And I believe that is the best pasta shape. Like, hands down, nothing beats it. Not bucatini, not penne. Penne is stupid. So, like, the things that I feel strongly about, what do you feel strongly about? What do you love? And they don't have to be huge and significant. It doesn't have to be like, in terms of values, for me, eavesdropping is a value. I value listening in on other people. Or it might be something way bigger, like saving the world. If that really is your thing that's in the background. For me, I don't care about that.

Spaghetti first.

Spaghetti first. Or might be the beach. I mean, so what are the things? And you can also think about what are the things that make other people think of you? Not just what do they think of when they think of you, but what makes them think of you? So, like, what would they think to post on your Timeline, on Facebook, for instance, if they saw it, and make them say, oh, I thought of you when I saw this. So if you're, like, obsessed with goats and people are always tagging you in every single goat video, then goats. So you want to think about that.

This is so good. I feel like I'm in a session right now. So thank you. I have all of these different things where I hope that the people listening are getting these pictures as well, because I think so often we can get stuck in this place of, oh, my God, what do I have to say today? And if you just kind of rotate through the categories from what foods do I like, where do I like to travel? Like, all of these questions, you can rotate it and you can keep coming back to it, and you'll have something different to say if you have, you know, you find 20 different things to write about that are Things that matter to you. Which makes it way more interesting to write about anyway, right?

Yes. And it doesn't always have to be epic. I think we're in this space where we think everything has to be a big aha. A big life lesson. Whether it's about failure or being brave and vulnerable or this or that, it does not always have to be that. I think the word value is overused and misused a lot. So when, often when people say, deliver massive value to your audience, people think that that has to be a teachable, that it has to be. Five tips for succeeding at life. Five things I wish I'd known when I was 20. It doesn't always have to be that. You can be delivering value. You are delivering value. If you make someone feel something, if you make them laugh, or if you distract them from what they're feeling right now and they're needing a distraction, you're delivering value. If you make them see something a little differently, or if you say something that they were already thinking and wish that they had said themselves and you're really delivering value. If you make people feel less alone, feel like, oh, I'm not the only one. So I'm not totally crazy. I'm not the only one who does that. And you're delivering value if you make them feel relieved, if you say, guess what? I found out that it is totally unnecessary to do this thing that we are all struggling to do. Maybe we can give it up.

Oh, man, I feel like that's so relieving to even hear that because sometimes I'll read people's posts and be like, how does this person write this every single day? Like, let me just tap into whatever part of that is. And I just, I'm like, I just don't have that much. I don't have that much to teach today.

Yeah, I don't know who does. And I think, I think people are really pushing themselves too hard to teach all the time. I mean, sometimes you can just think, what do I need to hear today? What am I struggling with? What am I failing at today that I need to turn around and I can talk about that. Did I just waste my entire morning? I'll write about how I just wasted my entire morning and how I could have saved it so good.

So at what point, obviously, so much of this is because we are a business, especially if we're a personality driven business. And I will tell you that one of my biggest journeys has been learning how to convert my personality or different things into courses and then into or you know, events and things like that, and then into converting it into sales. So when people are doing that, I know that sometimes they have different things that come up or they're like, I'm afraid of asking for the sale or how do I turn this copy into something that is profitable? Are there certain keys to doing that?

Well, yeah, if you're talking about selling. Well, first of all, on the way to selling, it's going to be enormously helpful if you lay the foundation by putting your personality out there on a regular basis and letting people know, like, and trust you so that when it's time to make a sale, they're already like, oh, I know this person. Everyone else is offering this same kind of thing. But I want it from Lori, right? Because I know Lori and I love her personality and I feel like we'd be BFFs if we met in real life. I want to buy it from her. I don't even have to read the sales page. I already know she gets me, I get her, I want it. So it's going to be hugely helpful to be doing that all along the way, letting people know you. And then when it comes to selling, you really have to speak their language and speak to what they want. We hear a lot about pain points, knowing people's pain points and frustrations. You have to know that you also have to know their desires, what's on the other side of that, and paint a picture of what life is like now with the struggles that they have, especially if you're selling something that solid, a true problem, and what life could be on the other side, like on the other side of that problem. What does life look like? What does life look like if you don't have that problem and how does that. You have to do it in words that speak, speaks to their desires and uses their language. How have they expressed it themselves? What are the things keeping them up at night? Or what are the things that they think they wish when they blow out their birthday candle? So using their words rather than talking about what you want them to want, like, you know, if you're a big, I don't know, Law of Attraction fan and Abraham Hicks fan, which I've been listening to a bunch lately, I think coaches make this mistake all the time. They're totally steeped in that language and they're like, I am going to teach you how to be aligned and raise your vibration day by day so that you know, so that you. And so that you have all your desires in your vibrational escrow or Some crap like that, that nobody knows what you're talking about. Instead of saying what the person really wants, maybe the person wants to be more charismatic and have all the heads turned when they walk into the room. This is especially true if you're talking about, like, I, you know, I will help you feel empowered. What does that mean? What is the no one's up saying in the middle of the night saying, I really want to be more empowered? What they're saying is, I want more people to like me or I want to make more money on my own, or I want to be more graceful when I walk. Like there's so many different things that that looks like to them and you have to know which it is. So speaking that person's language and thinking and listening to them and saying, what are these people saying they want? And echoing that back to them, that's what's really important in making a sale.

So when people are especially going towards the end of an offer and you are sending out kind of your last emails and really wanting to get people into your programs or whatever it is you have, your event, whatever you're selling, is there a way to do positive scarcity or is it truly like, you really need to let them know this is going away? And how do you say that? What's important towards the end of a sale to create urgency?

I mean, towards the end of a sale, if the cart truly is closing, that is the urgency that you need. I think it gets tricky when it comes to false scarcity or like having to invent the scarcity or the urgency. But when you really have a sale, something that is closing, where you're not going to be able to get it anymore after this date, after this time, on this day, that is all the scarcity you need. And I don't think you have to say like, your life is going to be over if you miss it. If you miss this, you're shit out of luck because you're going to be a loser for yet another year until it's open again. You know, you don't have to say that. You can say like, what would it feel like to be in. To know that you made it by the. You know that you made it in, that you're finally taking a leap this time around and not waiting anymore and not putting off the dream you have of achieving X, really painting the picture.

Of where they want to go instead.

Of being a loser for not buying. And you can absolutely work the pain of how much longer do you want your life to look like this? Again, if you're selling something that solves a problem, if we're talking about a course or something like that, 100%, that's always, almost always going to solve a problem. You're talking about a piece of art or a muffin. Muffins, a whole different thing. You really don't, you don't need a, you definitely don't need a cart. Close date for your muffin. But however, you might want to say these muffins run out really fast. Like, this is. We're not, like, there's not going to be another batch out till tomorrow. You want your muffin, buy it now. But you generally don't have to say that. They can tell by how many muffins are in front of that, like behind the glass. But if you're talking about a piece of art, well, art, there's always that. There is. Unless it's unlimited prints. There's always that scarcity. Like, this is the, this is the only one. Somebody else is probably going to buy it and you want this on your wall. I'm not going to recreate the same thing. You want this one. This is the one. But if we're talking about information products and that kind of thing, you are talking about definitely talking about pain points and how long people want to live with them or how long they want to live without the desires, without fulfilling the desires that they are that is right in front of them.

So what is a question that you wish more people asked you?

How much do you charge to watch Bravo? Honestly, I can't, I can't think of anything that people don't ask me enough. I'm happy anytime people ask me about myself. That's. I'll, you know, we all are, right? Almost all of us. I know some people don't like to talk about themselves, but I can't think of one that they don't ask enough. I'm going to take a pass on that one and something will probably come to me right after we end this podcast. But.

Well, I love that one because it gave me, it gave me a great answer for me. So what's something right now that is lighting you up the most? Like, in your life doesn't have to be work life or anything just besides Bravo.

Yeah. In my life, working on my book. I mean, we are in the middle of a Real Housewives of New York season that's especially great. But working on my book, that is what is lighting me up. It's also torturing me a little bit because it just, I take a long Time. And there are some days I want to write and some days I don't. And some days I take on a chapter that's like, there's too much to say and I don't know what order. And I get tripped up with all my usual. The typical writer's blocks that I could help somebody else sort out. But for me, it's really hard. It's always a cobbler's shoe situation where I'm like, oh, God, it's a mess of stuff. But I recently hired a developmental editor who is amazing. And she's just. She's a delight. And she's so validating. She's so warm and loving about my writing that I need to keep me going.

I found that to be so, like. I was all about, like, just tell me something positive.

Keep talking. Oh, my. I wish I could generate it from inside me, from deep inside, like, that it counted just as much to hear that I'm amazing when I say it, but it doesn't. I really need it from someone else who. Especially someone who reads a lot. And I had an experience with another editor who was potentially going to work on it. Someone recommended her to me, and she's got a great track record, and she seemed really smart, but she was not. She read my stuff, my sample chapters, and she was like, yeah. She started off by saying, you know, a couple of tough truths. This kind of book, you know, memoirs don't really sell. It's really hard to sell a memoir. And then she started listing some that had succeeded. She's like, that one, you know, that one has a really strong voice. And then she named another, and she's like, but that person's really funny.

You're like, I am all of the above as well, right?

I was like, so you're saying in contrast with mine, right? Did I get this? Am I getting this right? So she was so not into my writing, and it was devastating for a minute. I realized, like, I'm not going to be for everyone. There's going to be someone out there who doesn't like it. And that person might be a professional book person. I'm sure there will be plenty more who say, that's not for me, but for any brand. I mean, I was getting into this before, like, anything that you love, any show, any food, any piece of art, anything that you think is the best thing on earth, there's somebody out there saying, yeah, not for me. And that doesn't make it any less great. So I had to give myself a dose of that, of my Own medicine.

I love that you shared that because I think it's so important to find the way that we work the best. And even though this person was recommended by a lot of people and, yeah, that might have been, you know, fuel for your fire afterward, it's just for me, I was the same way. Like, I needed to know what was good about my writing in order for me to do more of that. Not something like, well, how do I fix this if it's all bad?

Yeah, right. And I think we all need to see ourselves through someone else's eyes. I mean, especially what's great about us. I mean, yeah, I guess it's also helpful to see what's not so great through someone else's eyes, but I don't find that as useful or as cheerful to receive. So I really like. It is so helpful when somebody says, here's what's great about this piece of writing that I wouldn't have seen. Or who can say, and this is really why I'm hiring her, who can look at it and say, here's what this book is. Here's the thread I'm seeing here. Because there are connections that I, as the writer, I'm too close to see.

Can you explain for everybody what that resistance really feels like? I think whether it's writing or whether it's a project, for some reason, writing just well, I know why. It's because it's like every single day you're going up against resistance, so you get really familiar with it. But how does that resistance appear for you and how do you deal with it?

Well, for me, it appears in the form of avoidance. Like, either. Usually it's before I start to write. Usually once I sit down and start, I'm okay and I can keep going. But before I start, when I feel like I don't know what to write, I don't even want to look. I don't want to look at my screen. I don't want to be anywhere near it. I don't. Like, even if I'm working on a talk and starting it, I don't want to open up, keynote. Like, I. It feels like I don't want to look. And it results in me going and doing something else. Maybe if I'm doing something productive, like, to get back in the mode of writing, it might be taking a shower. That sometimes helps, like, just getting in the shower. And I don't know, maybe that just sort of restarts me, resets me. Like, okay, now I'm starting the day over, or going out for A walk. Because I'm going to do that eventually during the day anyway. So I'm like, all right, I'll just take that walk now because otherwise I'm going to sit here for two hours opening up Facebook over and over without even knowing I'm doing it. All you have to do is like type F into the browser and there it is. Which I do like a tick. Like my. If my fingers know how to find anything, it's the F on my keyboard.

It's so crazy how, you know, sometimes you can, like observe yourself having out of body experience, like refreshing, like Instagram or Facebook, and you're like, what am I doing? What are you doing, you psycho?

What are you doing? Oh, my God. I just, you know, I'll be out for a walk too, and I do it on my phone. I'm like, I just checked every single thing that could possibly have something about me five times in a row. Just cycled through them. Email, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. Oh, fine, LinkedIn. That's when I'm really desperate. Yep. Oh, did I check email? Yes. And then Facebook and then Twitter and then, I mean, just over and over and over, I'm like, I am a psychopath. We're all psychopaths. We all are. That red dot. So that's the worst thing that happens. And that's how when I'm feeling resistance, and that is really the way resistance shows up, and me going and looking for validation in that red dot over and over in every single place that it could possibly appear.

Yep, been there, did it this morning. So why do you. Why do you like to do your retreats in? Is it Italy or Rome? I can't remember which one it is.

Italy. Haven't done one in Rome, though. I love Rome. So I've done them three years in a row. This is going to be the fourth year. The first three years were in the Cinque Terre, which a town called Riomaggiore. And the reason I did them there was because my partner in these retreats, whose name is Bianca and has a. She has a company called Italian Fix. She was a client, copywriting client. So she came to me for help with a sales page for this workshop that she was running. She was running a workshop for the first time. Normally she just did tours in the Cinque Terre and in Sicily and some other parts of Italy, it's growing. And this workshop was a personal branding, like kind of Instagram workshop with somebody else. And so as I was helping her with the sales page and making it fun and Taking out the usual, the typical sales page stuff that she was so used to. She said, would you ever want to do something like this, but with writing, like where you teach? And I was like, oh my God, yes. I'm like, the reason I wouldn't want to do a workshop is because I don't want to organize it. I don't want to figure out where it is, where anyone stays, any of that stuff. She's like, I'm talking about. That's what I would do. I would do all of that. And all you'd have to do is show up and teach. And I'm like, oh My God, yes, 100%. So we did our first one and she was like, if the first one works, we'll just rinse and repeat. And it did. And we did. And so we've been. This will be the fourth year, as I mentioned, because it's a great event. People love it, it fills up every year and I really enjoy it. And I love Italy. That's so it's in Italy because of Bianca, because her tours are in Italy and her workshops are in Italy and because I've always loved Italy. So that's, that's how that worked out.

Do you think it's important for, you know, when you are either writing or. Well, not when you are, but when you are someone who has to write all of the time to collect experiences, like make sure that you are switching up your energy in your life 100%.

I mean, and I'm someone who is resistant to change. I love routine. I love my routine. I love the things that I do every day. I love walking the exact same way every time I take a walk.

Oh my God.

I'm like, that's just the way I want to go. It's easy. It's a no brainer. I don't have to think. But sometimes I have to force myself to switch things up and, and like go to a new place or take a trip. When I don't feel like taking a trip, often my, my husband will be like, hey, let's go for a drive today. I'm like, it's too early. I don't want to shower, I don't want to get dressed. Let's just stay here and read the paper. And I'll look at Shopbop and order things I don't need. And, and he'll convince me. He'll be like, come on, let's just go. And so we'll get in the car and go somewhere and it'll give me new material. Something to write about. Like, every time I do something I don't feel like doing necessarily because it's outside my routine, I have something new to write about.

Oh, my God. That has been, like, my number one thing. And I'm the exact same way. Like, sometimes my husband will be like, I can't run the same way again. And I'm like, I can't not know where I'm going. You don't get it.

Exactly. I love walking the same way. I love running the same. The same way.

And then I'm like, I'm. So you have those moments, though, where you're like, damn, I am boring. Like, this is straight up boring. Like, I can't. I have nothing to say because I get that I'm so boring. So I always try to. I. It's actually a part of my routine now is to schedule in things that I really, you know, that I have so much resistance around, because that's where all the good stuff is.

100. And when I find, like, when somebody asked me, what so how's life? What's going on? And I say, you know, the usual. Just, you know, working, like, oh, my God, I'm the most boring person ever. Or if my only answer is just busy, like, I want to slap myself and never talk to myself again. So that's when I know I've got to change some stuff up and at least have something to say.

Oh, my. I'm the same exact way. So for entrepreneurs, I know we touched on so much of this, but for people who are in this space, who their personality is, they are the face of their brand. They are the ones that are always out there. Is there something we haven't touched on that you think is really important for them to know just about really making sure their audience knows who they are?

Making sure their audience knows who they are? I say, don't be afraid to share things, to let us see things about you. And I don't mean. And I don't just mean being vulnerable in the way that you think of vulnerable, as in sharing your biggest failure. Vulnerability can also be mean. It can also mean sharing the little things that you feel embarrassed about or raw about. So I would say don't be afraid to show the cracks, to be what I like to call flossome. I don't like to use the word vulnerable because I find it overused. And I love Brene Brown. I love her new TED Talk. Love her, and I love the whole idea of it, but I just don't use that word because I Think it's misunderstood and misused. So I say flawsome, be willing to be flawsome. Show people like, you know, talk about that time that you lost your bathing suit in the pool and also be willing to be a star. That's something we don't hear that much. And, and I think people who do have, I think everyone has star quality. And the people who seem to have the most of it seem to be most reluctant to step into the spotlight. I think they are embarrassed. They were probably told, don't be a show off when they were kids. And so now their reaction is, oh, I don't want to be all me, me, me. I don't want to be all, look at me. And to that I say, we, we need you to be all, look at me. We need people to look up to. People want leaders and you should be willing to be that person.

Is there a just, just for people who maybe. I know that when I heard that like a huge part of me wanted to be like, yes, that's amazing. I absolutely am ready to step into that. And then there's that tiny little voice that still says, but what's the difference? How do people differentiate between the, you know, be out there, be me, me, me, but also so that people still like you? Or is that just like, get over it and just keep showing everything?

Keep showing everything, Keep showing up. Don't just show the highlights, which is something we're all accused of doing and that we tend to do, but don't just show the highlights and don't just show up to brag, I think brag for sure, but don't show up only to brag. Show up also to. Well, first of all, if we're talking about social media, go and like comment on other people's stuff there, be a support for them, be excited for them and keep the conversation going over where they are as well contribute. So don't be only me, me, me. Don't be only look at me. But you do. But a part of what you do should be look at me especially and, and do showcase your accomplishments and do showcase what you're excited about and let us celebrate that with you.

Oh, I love that. What is the best way to work with you? Because you have a million different things going on. I suppose we could do all of.

Them, but yes, do all of them.

Please do. Do all of them.

Well, right now, what time of year are people listening to? Because I know what time of year we're talking.

This is end of May. June.

End of May, June.

Yeah.

So the Copy Cure is now closed for the year but will be reopened next year before you know it because time goes way too fast. So when it comes around, be sure to get into it. I think for starters, get on my list. Just go to talkingshrimp.com and sign up for my email and you will learn from. I'm happy to brag about this. You will learn from reading my emails. You'll also have a great time reading them. But it's one thing that I feel really comfortable boasting about that my people say all the time, yours are the only emails I open and read every single time. So that's a claim that I will gladly make and might be a bold one, but I'm happy to make it. So get on my email list and I have many products on my site. At talking shrimp.com, i have a copywriting mini course, 60 minute makeovers, copywriting mini course, and a couple of other things in about Page Builder. So those are things that you can do. I'm also bookable for private sessions, but I'm pretty damn expensive and it can be hard to get time with me. I'm pretty booked up for the summer. So I would say just for starters, come over to Talking Shrimp, hang out there, get on my list, say hi to me, go find me on Instagram. Instagram, my handle is talking shrimpNYC. And on Facebook, just like come hang with me, be in my orbit. That's the best thing.

I am so grateful for you and I have to tell you that I literally get re inspired and not just re inspired because I'm learning every time I go and look at your stuff. So I'm going to build it into either my calendar or somehow. Well, I'm on your email list now, so I am like, oh, this is the best reminder to go and remind myself to add more of myself to my business. Because to be honest with you, you give people the best gift of all and that truly is getting back in touch with who they really are and sharing that. And I think that's why we are on the planet. And I think that's why it feels so good to get clarity around, copywriting around, really showing up around, you know, putting infusing ourselves into our businesses. So what you do is such a gift for. It's not just about, you know, copywriting and converting sales, which is a massive bonus, but it really is about showing up every day and feeling more you, which is huge. So you guys go follow her on Instagram and definitely, definitely go sign up for her email list because I learned something from every single time I read her content. So, Laura, thank you so much for being on the show. I'm so grateful that you came on.

Thank you. Me too, Lori. This was the best time. And everything you just said was such a gift to me. So thank you.

Thank you. And I always end on one. One last really quick question. Are you ready?

I think so.

There's no way to be ready. So you're. You meet a total stranger. You're only with them for, like, 30 seconds. Maybe it's on an elevator and they look at you and they ask you, how can I make myself happy? What do you say?

Oh, my gosh. My. Like, the first things that come to my mind are all dirty. Like, we only have 30 seconds.

Well, you might as well try this.

How can you make yourself happy? This isn't for everyone. I would have to know this. I know it's a stranger, so I don't know if this is right for them, but I say having a business that is a total reflection of yourself is the happiest thing on earth.

Oh, my God. I love that. Because what you talk about and who we are is not for everyone. So that was absolutely perfect. So thank you so much, you guys. If you loved this episode as much as I did, make sure you text it to someone. Share it with somebody who you know needs what Laura is offering on this podcast. So until next time, earn your happy. Bye, everyone. Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to share this episode with someone you think would love it, that would be absolutely, absolutely amazing, and we would be forever grateful. Also, please leave us a review if you feel so moved by going to itunes and leaving us an honest thought, an honest comment, tell us what you think. Tell us what you want to hear. More of it would really help us out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people. Until then, don't forget to earn your happy. Thanks again, guys. Guys, bye.

Bye.