5 Career Hacks to Level Up, Embrace Seasons of Ambition, and Redefine Your Dream Job with Lauren McGoodwin of Career Contessa

Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the earn your happy podcast. I am always so excited that you guys chose this podcast. It means so much. I know there's a million other ones out there, but thank you so much for tuning in. And today I have a great podcast for you with the incredible Lauren McGoodwin. She's the founder and CEO of Career Contessa. I love that name. She helps women build fulfilling careers on their own terms. She's the author of Power Moves again. Should we just go to her for titles?

Because I'm telling you, these are amazing.

She has over 10 years in the career development space. In this episode, Lauren gives us the five career hacks you can use to advance in your career. And that's from getting her dream job as a recruiter at Hulu to interviewing tons of women through her business, Career Contessa. She shares how to avoid the trap of thinking that your dream job is going to solve all your problems and give you ultimate happiness. And on here, we both share the small daily habits of expectations and perspective shifts that have brought us the most fulfillment as we're pursuing success in the.

Work we do as entrepreneurs.

We also get really real about what our day to day looks like building our businesses. I mean, seriously, I am typically in troll mode while creating everything that I've ever dreamed of, but it's good to know these things and why we shouldn't demonize or feel guilty about our ambition. And the season of Hustle that you might be in. All right, you guys, let's dive into the episode.

Lauren, I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

So we got to do a little prepping right before this, which was so fun. Sometimes I create the questions on my own and sometimes I do a little bit of a collaboration. And what was really, I think what's going to be really great about this episode is that this is topics that are so hot for you right now, and that's kind of where I love to find people, is what exactly is lighting you up and what feels like you just want to be talking about it because you are. You are the expert in this arena. You have an awesome podcast called Career Contessa. You've had it for four years, but you have been in this world for about 10 years. Tell me a little bit about what you do and what got you started.

Yes. I'm the founder and CEO of Career Contessa, which is the largest online career resource for women I started it in 2013 as a side hustle. Like a lot of people. I was actually working as a recruiter at Hulu after working a job I absolutely hated. So as an admin assistant, hated it. Was like just very obsessed with getting out of that. Got my, quote, dream job working at Hulu and really saw both sides of the hiring table. And then when I was working on my master's thesis, I was writing about millennial women and career resources. And everyone has to remember this is before Lean in, this is before Girl Boss, like before all that stuff. And so when I was writing my thesis, it was when I was realizing women are about to make up 50% of the workforce, which had never happened before. And so I was speaking about it from the standpoint of, like, there isn't a career resource that addresses our specific needs. Now that feels like, of course everyone's talking about that. But back then that wasn't the case. And so Career Contessa was a prototype that I made for the thesis and then eventually left Hulu to pursue it full time and kind of, I will say, like, maybe didn't have everything as buttoned up as I should have when I left my full time job with benefits and salary to go launch something, but figured it out and kind of revenue streams and business model kind of organically happen. And so now we run as essentially like a niche media site.

Amazing. And you also have written a book, which to anyone who has written a book, hats off, I did it.

It's a whole, yeah, never want to do it again.

I have until 2017, so there's that. I think I do want to do it again, but I will take the pressure off this time. It'll be, it'll be very much because I want it to be a project for me, which, who knows, maybe then that'll be my best work.

But with that, I don't want to.

You know, when we go to write a book, it's because we have something, a message that we really want to say. What was the message of your book Power Moves? Like, what did you want to get across if you had to just give me the Cliff Notes.

Yeah, I think, I think similar. Have you ever heard the saying, it's not a diet, it's a lifestyle? And it's about, you have to change these behaviors in order to live a healthy life. And I found that career advancement and growing people's careers, a lot of times people were looking for quick fixes that bad diet and Power Moves is really about approaching your, your career. It's like an overall approach that's more of a lifestyle. It's how can you grow and advance your career without these, like, quick fixes and, like, dramatic things? Because what I found after having Contessa for so many years and interviewing so many successful women is that success did not come down to these one moments. They came down to these ongoing actions and behaviors that were rooted in an overall sort of mindset and approach. And so Power Moves really teaches people, like, what is that mindset? What are the behaviors? And then, of course, what are some, like, actionable things you can do to grow your career? Especially for tough moments like asking for a salary raise. Yes, that's a pivotal moment. But all the power moves, small, medium, large ones that lead up to it are what really build into those moments. So I think the power move that usually gets the most, like, attention is, like, the big, dramatic one. But there's so many little moves that happen before that to get you there.

Oh, I love that. Sounds like I would literally love that book, because that's what's exciting for me to talk about right now, too, is that just creating this lifestyle of the person who creates, you know, brings things that they into reality. Because I'm sure you get asked this all the time as well, like, what were the three big things you did? And I'm like, well, here are three big things. But it was more like the 3,000 little things. Yeah, I did day in and day out. And that requires you to be somebody else. That's a habit. That's truly.

Yeah.

So I love that. Okay, guys, we got to read this book. Power Moves. All right, so tell me a little bit about what the good enough job means. Yeah.

So after I wrote my book, one thing that I became sort of obsessed with and Covid sort of helped. This is the idea of a good enough job. So one of the things we saw during COVID and maybe the messaging that where people were getting before is that this dream job exists, and essentially, if you could find it, you would be happy. And in my book, I talk about the myth of the dream job, but I always got asked, well, what should I pursue instead of a dream job? And it came to me later, which is this idea of a good enough job. And a good enough job doesn't ask you to make your whole identity the job. It doesn't ask for more from you than you can possibly give. And again, we saw a lot of this during COVID where people were really giving, like, their lives, these jobs. And then when things got tough, they got the hard message of, like, oh, you're just a layoff number. And so the good enough job is, and I'm sure people can think of this, it's like a job that gives you benefits. Another term that recently came out, like the lazy girl job, which I hate that because you never heard of a lazy boy job. But anyway, that's a whole nother topic. My point is, like, you know, as a job that is reasonable expectation, clear, pays you well, gives you benefits, but it allows you to still have a life outside of work and not make work your life. And many of us, I included, had this kind of recovery period. Where I was born from, Hulu, my identity was part of this company. And so when I left, I really struggled with, like, who am I if I go to a cocktail party? Am I worthy of being spoken to if I don't have this big company name? And so the good enough job is really another way for me to say, like, here's the argument of why you don't want a dream job and the myth of a dream job. And I'm so tired of seeing messaging about just land your dream job here. I can help you land your dream job. Anyone who is telling you that is selling you bs because they don't exist. And every job comes with parts you don't like. Even you probably can agree, like, you probably have your quote unquote dream job, and it comes with stuff you don't like because it's a job at the end. So it's, you know, I think managing expectations is, like, truly a key to success. And many of us, especially millennial women like myself, we were raised with this idea that there's a formula to success and one plus one equal two. And if we just did it, aka, went to the right school, got the right job, all those things would happen. And many of us got those things and have learned that we're not happy or things change and whatnot. And so I also think a good enough job allows you to really embrace more of a growth mindset, being open to other things versus feeling like, I've got to get this one thing, this one job, this one job title, this one might hit this one milestone, and everything will be easy peasy from there. So, yeah, I'm a big proponent of making the argument of why, say, ditch the dream job and instead go for the good enough job.

Oh, man, it's so true. Even, you know, you kind of pointed out, even in we're probably living in our dream jobs, which I am, but I didn't it's almost like I kept on trying to do other things as well, even being an entrepreneur, because if you don't set the real expectation of what life really looks like when you're in these dream positions, you're going to keep seeking something else and everything's going to feel like a dead end and you're not going to feel fulfilled. Like, I really had to change the way I look at everything and even just the way that I operate. So I love that you are bringing attention to that because I see a lot of people who are even doing the thing that they love and they're like, this wasn't it. This wasn't it. I'm like, yeah, well, it is.

It.

It's a part of it, like. And you just keep doing more of those things. So.

Well, I think it takes the pressure off people, too. Like, somehow you feel like if you didn't get that dream job or, you know, launch that business that hit that milestone, somehow you're a loser, you know? And so I think it takes the pressure off of people who are already probably perfectionist and highly ambitious and already very hard on themselves to be like, maybe let's change the expectation of what we're going for too. Because this is actually a completely made up, arbitrary thing as well. But it looks really good on Instagram and TikTok and LinkedIn and all the other places. It's. I have this saying I use a lot called glitter and glue. Glue is obviously what holds the business together, but they're not very fun or very glamorous. And you certainly don't put pictures of them all over Instagram. The glitter moments are, you know, your highlight reel. And most careers need a lot of glue to have those glitter moments. And you want to have both. You know, I'm not saying you want to have all glare or all glue, but it's interesting because I just find that people struggle with that at times because we see the highlight reel all the time.

I just did an event this weekend we were talking about. Majority of your entrepreneurship is spent looking like a troll who's telling riddles under.

A bridge.

While you emerge to the ball like once a year. And that's what people see. And that's when you get all your pictures and all your video and all your photos.

Yeah, yeah.

Telling riddles under the bridge.

Yeah, that's so true.

Very, very true.

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Okay, I kind of want to know about how you manage your expectations. Like when was your first realization? Around wow. It's kind of like everywhere I go, there I am. No matter what I'm doing, I'm not feeling fulfilled. What was that moment for you like? And how do you manage expectations now?

I mean it's an ongoing process. I mean, even though I have the best job where I get to actually think about this all the time and I talk to experts all the time, it's challenging. It requires you. I think the thing that's helped me the most is finding other people who are like minded or in similar positions. So I remember for example, when I first became an entrepreneur, every other week I had a standing call with a friend who also left her corporate recruiting job to launch her career coaching business. I would not have made it in my business without that support in the beginning because I was sort of like chasing this shiny ball where everywhere I just felt like I was pinging off of all these corners. And I think that really helped and supported me and I basically had kind of. I realized that that's the type of thing I need in order to stay grounded and to manage my expectations because sometimes you can kind of start to spiral. And I'm definitely a person who can spiral easily. So having the support of like minded people in my corner, whether it's a text chain, whether it's. I have one friend where we have an ongoing meeting once, once a month. I have another friend who's the marketing director, another company. We, we do a brainstorm once a month. I find that to be really helpful for me. The other thing I find when I feel like my expectations are sort of all over the place and what's happening, journaling. I know it's been said many times, but it does help to take the thoughts out of your head and put them onto paper. And walking I am a big fan of. Sometimes I just have to get the nervous energy out and walking helps me do that. I will listen to a PODC podcast that has nothing to do with work and business. Some seasons of life I do that. Other seasons of life I listen to. I'm listening to Scamanda right now, which is like a true Crime kind of podcast. And I just. Sometimes you have to also, like, completely separate yourself from those things. I will say the other thing that helps me in those moments is also getting way savvier about the numbers of my business. So, you know, you can't make decisions without data. And so one of the things I noticed during COVID a lot of my systems on the back end were a little messy, especially when it came to finances and the books and stuff like that. Having good systems that allow you to pull up data and answer questions quickly, I know it's not sexy, but do not underestimate investing in that stuff, whether you're creating yourself, getting someone else to help you. Because also those can help you in moments of spiraling too, because sometimes you can make up a false reality in your head as well. You lose a deal one day, it's okay. The world is not ending. You know, that kind of thing.

For me, it's like the more unsexy things I spend time on, the more you can actually get out in the world and look sexy. You just. You're too much of a. Like, I've been too much of a mess in my life going, what? Why can't I just get some, like, sops together? Why can't I just, you know, get a. Like, a structure of how I'm going to do this every single week? And so it's allowed me to actually go be way more put together out in the world now instead of always scrambling or just like, I don't know if you do this. I'm sure you do because you're a human being. But, you know, the. The amount of time that you could get things done, and it's like you just keep expanding it and expanding it because you don't have those systems in place. So it's like your days just can, like, roll into another and you feel like you're never getting anything done. So I love talking about the unsexy stuff as well. It's some of the most important work that we will ever do. Okay, so we were chatting about the changing face of ambition. Because I have had so many seasons, I'm actually just coming off of a really, like kind of a tough couple years where it was more like behind the scenes and just a challenging, challenging time. So I really understand the changing faces of ambition where I really wondered if I would ever get the feeling back of feeling that way.

Yeah, I can tell you I've had moments recently where I feel like I'm losing. I'm losing my ambition. Like I'm I've lost it. And, you know, part of that is I'm a new mom. I. I have two kids under the age of two, which is a huge life transition. We all just live through a pandemic. It's interesting, we just saw some research that came out the other day from Bamboo hr, which is an HR software company, and they're calling it the Great Gloom. And they're saying that US employees are the most unhappy they've been since 2019. And you can kind of feel this in the air a little bit about sort of this like, mentality of like, everyone is a little just us off. And yes, you know, the economy, the layoffs, like, it has been sort of felt like a negative year in general. But the change in face of ambition, I think for me also comes down to being a working mom and the fact that, you know, there's so little support for working parents, not just working moms. But then we've also been given this incredible gift of like, companies, for the first time ever, are starting to embrace hybrid work and flexibility. And yet there's this constant fight of, nope, companies want you to return to the office. There was another report that came out the other day and it was like, I forget the heading, but it was something about like, we're shocked that so many moms are in the workforce right now. And it's like, well, during COVID all these moms had to leave because there was no one to help their kids, because childcare was gone, schooling was gone. And because there's hybrid work and flexible work, they're able to return to the or remote work, they're able to return to work and get work done and still manage their own life and time. And it's incredible to me that so many people are shocked. It's like, actually if you make work, work, work for humans, people want to work. They have, you know, it's part of our overall well being that literally psychologists found out, which is that humans have a need to be contributing to something meaningful and work can be a piece of that. And so when you are able to make meaningful contributions, it means a lot. And so what's interesting about this season of life I'm in is sort of understanding the ebbs and flows of my ambition and what do I need from it now. So one of the things that work gives me right now is it gives me control, which is really important, especially when you have little kids, because there's so much you can't control control with them. But it's different than it was like, five years ago, where work was more of this, like, thrill or maybe more part of my identity. And it was, you know, it was just something where I was able to devote every ounce a minute and energy to it because I didn't have little humans that needed my energy. And I think a lot of women struggle with this feeling of, like, I used to be, that, am I going to get back? Or what do I do if I've lost my ambition? And truly, to your point, I don't think you ever lose it. I think you go through seasons. I think it changes, and it's sort of a matter of like, do you lean into those changes and embrace it? Do you fight against it? And everyone finds the system work that works well for them, but for me, I'm kind of leaning into the downshift a little bit. It's also why I love the good enough job, because it doesn't ask you to give up your family in order to have this job.

My friends and I have just been talking so much about, like. Like, allowing everyone to be in their own season, because I. I even saw.

A lot for a while where people.

Were like, you need to slow down. You shouldn't hustle. You should do this. I'm like, but there are seasons for that. And really acknowledging, you know, when I see somebody in their hustle season, not to, like, shame them or be like.

What are you doing?

Because I'm in mine, and vice versa, you know, when I'm in hustle mode, to remember there are people where it's really important. Like, I'm just getting into hustle mode again. And I'm very conscious, even on my podcast, to be like, hey, this is my season right now. If this is not for you, maybe tune out and go listen to a different one, because I'm about to really talk to you in this way. And so I just honoring that life is going to go through so many of those, and it's actually vital. It's kind of like knowing that if you're coming off of a season, it's super healthy that you're gonna go into more of a slow season or one where you feel like you don't have your ambition. Because I think of it as winter time. You know, there's. You feel like all you see is the white blanket of snow and everything looks dead, but it's actually so much rejuvenation for the plants, for the animals, for everything. Like, they have to go and do that in order to come back and come so full force in spring where it's like everything blooms in a week, you know?

Yeah, absolutely.

If I want to bloom again real, real fast, then I'm gonna have to like have that, that moment where it feels like nothing is happening and it's even depressing. And that's important.

Yeah, it's almost like a, an ambitious cycle. You know, you're like, I have to complete this cycle of crazy manic ambition before, and then like go back to sort of like a more normal tone or volume if you want. And I think that helps. I don't think you can sustain that high level of ambition all the time. And when people talk about burnout, I'm always like, like, there's a couple ways of burnout, but one of them is also not understanding how you're adding an impact. And I really love the book Essentialism because I'm sure you guys have talked about on this podcast because it's all about finding key areas to focus. And I think that's also really important for moments of ambition. Or maybe when you're feeling less ambitious is like, that's okay. Can you at least stay focused on the three most important things that your business has and maybe let go of those other things things, but stay on these three things instead. And I think that book does a really good job at really selling you on the less is more approach and how it can be successful.

So it's such a good reminder because no matter how much we hear it, like you don't.

Yeah, I know.

There are so many challenges to business that I don't want starting to be.

One of them for you.

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So, all right, let's have you Tell me about the five career hacks.

What are they?

What are they used for?

Yeah, so I love, I love talking about career advice, but I recently got asked by someone who is a recent grad and about to start their career journey my best career advice. And again, this isn't necessarily a unique question to me, but I thought back to my early days and I thought back about all the things I'd learned and I was like, okay, here are the five things. Basically, I wish I had known earlier. The first one is Swallow the Frog. Maybe you guys have heard this. It's called Eat the Frog or Swallow the Frog. Eat the Frog is all about doing your least favorite work or the work you hate. Do it first because it's really hard to do that that well. Swallow the Frog is basically doing that for somebody else. So you want to be successful at work? Find out what really annoys your boss or you want to solve something for a client. What's something that is like maybe really hard or really annoying for them and do that for them. It's interesting because it will help you get ahead early on in your career. So you can observe people, figure out what they hate doing, learn how to do it and take it off their plate. It's an easy win for you. An easy win for them.

Them that is so good. Like, I would just, I would literally hire someone who was like, tell me about your most annoying thing. And I'm gonna fix that right now.

Absolutely right. I 100% it's. And it's such an easy win because it's like, maybe the thing that really annoys you is kind of a small thing. Like, one of the things that I hate doing is I hate writing the subject line for our emails. I have to write, you know, we send three emails a week. I hate doing the subject line. I sometimes I'm like, I'm really smart, but I cannot think of anything to say. And there's a person on my team that does it. They're not always big, hard things, but there's stuff that make an impact for sure. The second one on my list is executive presence starts before you're an executive. So these are simple things that you can do to stand out and are really easy to be consistent. This is obviously going to be more of a corporate viewpoint, but you could take the same strategy and apply it to your work. But some of the examples I gave this person were like, look people in the eye, do what you say you're going to do, be early, practice good posture, you know, have a confident handshake, send the thank you email, and also be easy to work with. And what I mean by being easy to work with is not be a people pleaser or be someone who just takes on the work of other people but makes work lighter for others. So, Lori, if I'm going to work with you and we're going to work on a project, you know, don't just send me zero information, make me constantly have to follow up to get it. Maybe you're like, here are the very clear assignments and the very clear deliverables. Right? Just something with clear communication of community. Make a big difference. So practice executive presence before you're the executive. If you want to put it in an entrepreneurial standpoint, be that top CEO and founder before you're that person. You know, there used to be the saying, and I know everyone has mixed feelings that fake it till you make it. But think of this a little bit more in like your behavior and how you show up. Another easy win. So number three is work hard first and smart later. I know it's really trendy to say that working smart is all that matters. I, I don't agree with that. I think if you want to accomplish anything meaningful, you have to start by working really hard. Build a reputation for hard work. Of course, take pride in it. Meaning, you know, make sure to self advocate and make sure that people know. And then you can start to build leverage to working smart. And you know, I just don't believe that you can only be a person who works smart. I think hard work is part of anyone's success story.

Hard work is like the learning portion. It's kind of where you're like, like you're sorting it out and going, how do you even work smart? Like, I, I don't think I'd even know how to work smart if, when I'm starting in things, you know, I'd love, I'd love if you could tell me as I'm starting this company up, because I'm working very hard and it doesn't feel super smart yet. I love that it takes the pressure off as well. Like, okay, I can work hard, I can figure things out right now.

Yeah. My fourth hack of the five is build storytelling skills. So this is really interesting when you're launching a business because what I found is that world changing CEOs aren't the smartest or most talented people in their organizations, but they are really exceptional at aggregating data and communicating it simply and effectively. I once had a 20 plus slide presentation that I was delivering to our executive team at Hulu and the CEO looked at me and he said, I want you to tell me about this in three sentences. I don't have time for this entire slide deck. I nearly died because I was like, three sentences. I don't even know where to start. But it was such an important lesson. And one thing that really stuck with me is not only to be able to be good at telling stories, but data in, story out. You know, I don't care how much data you have, I want to know what the story is. People fall in love with stories. They do not fall in love with data. You know, that's what they're going to follow.

I feel like I'm in rooms with a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of female entrepreneurs and sometimes the room can get very long winded with questions and different things like that. And one of the things I always try to teach that I feel kind, rude about is like, we have to be faster, we have to tell the story quicker. We have to like, give this data faster. Or in the fast paced business world of where they want to go, it can't be slow. You'll get overlooked, you'll get ignored, you'll get blocked. People won't have time for you and you won't understand. So I love that you just communicated that, just sharing that about the meeting of this is so great that you did this, but I need it in three sentences. So if we can master that skill set, I feel like that moves you through the world in such a beautiful way that people want to be around you because they're like, this girl just got it. She's fast, she's quick, she's concise. You know, she doesn't waste my time.

She adds value.

So thank you for sharing that. All right, number five. Yeah.

This one is be a lifelong learner and teacher. And I know you've heard this one before, but let me explain it a little bit early on. Especially if you're an entrepreneur or working for a startup or anything like that, you're going to be given a lot of tasks that you have no idea how to complete. There's nothing more valuable than someone who can just figure it out. So do some work, ask the questions, get it done, and then be able to teach others your process or your skill set or whatever it is that you're mastering so that you can move on to something new. People will fight over you and that's how you are given more opportunities. You're asked to be part of, you know, high profile projects or collaborations and you will advance at a faster rate. The top performers aren't good at their job. They elevate the performance of the entire team. And so that's often something. When I think about career hacks that people just like, again, they're looking for the quick win. These are the power moves, these behaviors that are the lifestyle or like the approach to take with your career. Because none of these are quick wins, as you can say. It's not that they're hard, they're different level, small, medium, large, power moves, but they are part of sort of that toolkit you need to build a successful career.

So good. I love these. I love these five. These are so good. Tell me just any last thing that you hear from a lot of people or questions that are like these reoccurring questions. If you have one or two of them that you're constantly hearing out in the world of what you get asked specifically, are there any that you're like, these are the questions I'm constantly getting asked.

You know, recently I think I've been getting asked a lot about self advocacy. I think there are a lot of people who, you know, the greatest tragedy is sort of that your hard work and contributions go completely unseen and unacknowledged. And I think that that's really important to people. You know, there's such thing as like your love language, but there's also such thing as your workplace love language. And I think acknowledgement and gratitude and appreciation for what you do is really big. And one thing I always try to remind people of is like, your contributions need to be received and perceived, but it's part of our job to make sure that they are received and perceived. And so, you know, I like to tell people is some quick ideas, like sending an FYI to your boss. Like, FYI, I did this thing so you don't have to worry about it. It doesn't have to be done in a braggy way. And people get these things where it's like, I find that in the advice we're giving a lot. It's like, people are very black and white. It's like, well, if I'm self advocating, then it must mean I'm bragging. And it's like, no, maybe it's more of an art to this. But it's important to learn how to self advocate early to make sure that you are getting credit for the work that you do. But it's also really important for you because part of one thing that keeps people moving forward, like I mentioned, is part of their overall well being is feeling like they're meaning making a meaningful contribution. And you can't feel that way if people just keep assigning more and more to your desk or something like that. So I think that's something, especially right now with all the layoffs people are very nervous about how can I make sure that I don't get laid off. It's like, look, there are no guarantees, but here are some things you can do. I've had a lot of people who are entrepreneurs who are like, you know, it's been a tough year for entrepreneurs, I think across the board, or at least the ones I talk to. And so I think there's a feeling of like, should I go back into the workplace? How do I do that? Well, you have to self. Advocate. You have to be a good storyteller. You have to be able to connect the dots, routine what that company is looking for and your skill set. And you can't be you know, I remember one time I was at south by Southwest, I was working for Hulu at a career fair and someone, these people would come up to us and they would say, oh, Hulu, what are you guys looking for? And we would always respond back, what are you looking for? And it's like, I think that's an important lesson to kind of know what your specialty is. Be able to tell that story said quickly and then be able to self advocate and make sure you are getting credit and people know who you are. Our personal branding is like one on one the story for, for what I'm talking about. So that seems to be sort of the season that people are in right now, in addition to just feeling a little negative overall about work, at least corporate work. But I think that again, a lot of this stuff is seasonal and we'll sort of see a different shift come out the other end.

What are you feeling around people who are looking to go back into the workplace or people who are in the workplace right now and having a personal brand brand. How do some jobs perceive that? What do you think of it?

I think it's incredibly important. I think it's all about the story you tell with it. So for example, if I'm Lauren McGowan, founder and CEO of Queer Contessa and I'm trying to get a job that will help me pay my bills so that I can continue with Career contestant, nobody wants to hire me. But if I'm career contessa Lauren McOxon, career contessa and I'm able to build community, I've been able to raise this much money, that those are valuable skills. So you have to remember that it's not about you needing the job or anything like that. There's no shame in it. It's about taking the skill sets that you've learned and leveraging them toward the job. What makes you valuable to that organization? I always tell people like companies don't hire because they want to give you benefits and a salary. They're hiring because they have a problem that needs to be solved. Tell them and show them how you are going to solve that problem. So I don't think there's any problem with having a personal brand and keeping that. In fact, fact, a lot of brands or companies love that their employees have personal brands and can talk about what it's like to work there, preferably in a positive way. But a lot of people love that, you know, and so I actually think it's, it can totally work in your benefit. I would not shy away from it. I would just make sure that your identities are not having a crisis between them. There's not like the work you and the other version of you that's way too exhausting for you anyways. And I would just find a way to combine them into who are you on authentically.

I love that.

I.

We've had a lot of, you know, I think in the beginning, let's just even go like 10 years ago when all of the personal brand, everything was kind of like really popping. Like, oh my gosh, we're supposed to be doing this or five years. There was a lot of talk just even. Even out in the world of like hiring different people. Even when you have a small company, like, oh, we just. You don't want an influencer.

You don't want.

Because they get so absorbed in what they're doing. And now I'm like, great. What are your skills deals? Can you help me with social media? What are you.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. It really is just a different way of looking at it now because it can be something that is really amazing. So I'm glad that you shared that and just as long as the conversation is really open around it. And I love how you had mentioned around how they are also telling it because I think that sometimes people can come in and I'm like, oh, that doesn't feel very good. Like, we're definitely going to be the bottom. Bottom of the totem pole for you now. Nobody wants to feel that way. So really making sure you're telling story in a good way.

All right.

I am so grateful for you. This was such a great conversation. You like, pack a punch in a short amount of time. Where can we find follow you? What would you like us to most do right now?

I would love for any of you to listen to my podcast. It's called Career Contessa. So that makes it really easy. Our website is Career Contessa. Our social media is at Career Contessa. We've tried to make this as simple as possible. And then my book is called Power Moves and you can buy that wherever books are sold.

Amazing. Well, this was such a great conversation for me and you guys. One of our biggest. The biggest gifts you can give for our guests is to let her know what your biggest takeaway was. Give her a tag, give her a shout out and also go subscribe. I think it's follow now. Go follow her podcast.

Else they're changing all the time.

I know. I don't know what it's doing. Now go do the thing where you go and listen and follow it.

Okay?

So, so grateful for you. And until next time, earn your happy.

Bye, everyone.