554. Start your passion business - with Dianna Cohen

For us, yes, we are a hair care brand, but like, this is such a huge part of who we are and I'm really excited to, like, see what happens and I think it will continue to be a part of our mission and impact.

Welcome to the Earn your happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of The Bliss Project, 3 Time Fitness World champion, fitness expert and cover model, turned self love junkie, lifestyle entrepreneur and author. Each week I'll bring you a guest or a thought that will help you bust through your fears, connect to your.

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Thank you so much for tuning back in again. I can't tell you what it means to have you all show up. And I have to tell you today my guest, Diana Cohen is freaking awesome. She is the founder of Crown Affair, a hair care brand empowering people to redefine their relationship with their hair through accessible luxury products, guidance and community. Prior to Crown Affair, Diana founded Levitate, a brand marketing agency where she led initiatives for brands including including the Wing, Harry's, Flamingo, outdoor Voices, et cetera. Diana is part of Forbes 30 under 30 for the class of 2019. She resides in New York with her fiance Alexander. And I got to meet her at a Create and cultivate dinner which was so much fun. And I will tell you that I was immediately drawn to her and her energy. And this woman is so insanely generous. She is so willing to help you out, jump on the phone, explain things, things to you, get you to understand whatever it is that you have questions about in business, in life, you name it.

You guys, I literally fell in love.

With this girl and I know that you will too. Whether you are growing a business or you are just looking to grow as a human being. I really love this podcast.

So let's get started. Diane, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Thank you for coming on.

Yeah, I'm so excited to be here.

So you guys, I got to sit across from this lovely woman. We were at Jacqueline Johnson's Create and Cultivate kind of her like pre dinner beforehand for speakers and I'm sure close friends and things like that. So it was so much fun because you randomly. I just was randomly sitting with people. I didn't know. Which I think is, like, the best possible thing you can do at some of these networking things. And honestly, I'm always a little freaked out when I go in. I'm just like, okay, you're a big girl. Like, you can do this. Go up and talk to someone. Go sit with people you don't know. And I look up and there's this woman with the most amazing hair. And it was one of those moments where, you know, you're looking at someone and, you know you're complimenting them in your head, but you don't say it until, like, later. And then I find out that you are not only amazing in so many things that you do, but you had just launched a hair care line, which we're going to talk about. But that is our love story of how we met.

Yes, yes. I remember it well. And I'm missing the days when we could all come together and have incredible dinners and conversations. And the feeling was very mutual. I remember seeing you and being like, the energy radiating from her right now is infectious. So I felt exactly the same.

Oh, my God, that's so nice to hear. Because all you feel like sometimes is like, am I being a weirdo? Or is she, like, looking at how much kale salad I'm taking, piling it on the plate. So I'm really excited to talk to you today because you have had. You have a pretty diverse career, and I also love hearing the story about how your company that you have right now, which is called Crown Affair, which you launched two and a half months ago.

Yes. Yeah.

How that all came about. So let's. Let's rewind for a bit, though, and let's just chat about what your. What your career started in. Like, what were you thinking when you first, you know, were in the world of even choosing what in the heck do I want to be? What were some of your inspirations?

Yeah, so I'm excited to chat about this because actually, Jackie Johnson was an early part of my career experience. We've known each other for almost 10 years now, so I moved to New York for college. I went to nyu, and like a lot of people, I wanted to come here and work in fashion. It looks very glamorous in TV and movies, and some of it's accurate, but not always. And I had interned at a number of different places, from the celebrity dressing department at Valentino to production and E commerce at Tycoon. And, you know, by the time I graduated, it became pretty clear that the world was changing. And, you know, a lot of the traditional systems around publications and media and distribution with wholesales and retailers was shifting. And the Internet was happening in the way that I think we know the Internet and it's for now. And there was a girl who had this really awesome blog. I loved a couple of the interviews on it, and I reached out to her and was just like, hey, think what you're doing. Super rad, and would love to be a part of it. Intern work, whatever. That was Emily Weiss, and she had just started into the Gloss and had like a handful of interviews up on the site. Obviously, what she's been able to build over the last seven or so years and with Glossier is incredible. And that was really the kickstart of my career. And, you know, you do everything. I was doing, quote, editorial, production, but I just loved being around storytelling and connecting with people. And it was amazing to see that power shift happening online around, you know, the stories that you could tell or who you could interview or profile or connect with and then see another community respond to it in the comments section or share their own stories. And it felt like such a different ecosystem than what was happening in traditional publications or media prior to that. So it was incredible to be a part of that. Really early on, when I was actually working there, I was invited to an event from a former. They were like the founders of this jewelry company. They were doing a launch event and I had kept in touch with them, which is an important lesson, like, be kind and work hard and keep relationships. Because you never know, someone could just invite you to a thing a few years later and it can change your life. And this event was a launch event for one of their campaigns. And I met this woman there named Era Katz, who is the founder of a symbiotic probiotic company called Seed, now in la. But at the time, she was one of the partners at a company called Beach Mint, which was like a pre direct to consumer, but like celebrity e commerce, you know, direct site. It had like Ashley and Mary Kate with Style Mint and you know, Kate Bosworth with Jewel Mint. And we just really hit it off. And she lived in California and I thought she was like the coolest, most fab rad woman ever. And she was like, I'm gonna hire you one day. And I was like, I'm never gonna see you again. I hope we get coffee in a. And she ended up calling me and letting me know that she was going to be launching a new mobile shopping app called Spring. And this is about six and a half years ago now, and Spring no longer exists. But it was honestly like the best two and a half years of my life. And I shifted. This was in 2014. It was the end of 2013 into 2014. We launched it later that year. And I went from storytelling and editorial and production and being really in beauty to understanding how people shopped online and sitting with engineers and UX and UI designers and really incredible brand people too. You know, that group of people is truly the most special group that I've worked with to this day. And you know, I am so grateful for that because it introduced me to what it means to be a consumer brand online in such a different way. So we worked with over like 600 brands on the platform, you know, understood E commerce, back end integrations. You know, Shopify was just a baby then and it was so cool to work with all these brands. And you know, Warby Parker was around for a while, but we were starting to see Outdoor Voices had just launched and like they were one of the first brands on Spring. Buck Mason, who's a menswear brand out in California, who ended up being one of my clients before starting Crown Affair. And it was a really amazing experience there. And I've really just worked in consumer and with consumer brands since then. And it was actually at Spring that I met Jackie Johnson at the time. She's obviously now the founder of Create and Cultivate, which is one of my favorite communities and platforms out there. But she had a event and marketing agency called There is no Subject. And I think I was 22 when I met Jackie and I was one of the only marketing hires and I worked with her and her whole team to produce a launch party and worked with her multiple times when I was at Spring and then. And she was just as much of a Boss then like 7 years ago as she is now. That girl is just a total powerhouse. And yeah. And then after leaving Spring, I worked with Tamara Mellon. She had, you know, sold Jimmy Choo and wanted to create her own direct consumer shoe line a couple years after selling Jimmy Choo. And that was amazing. Worked with Jackie on activations for that and have worked as one of the first employees at AWAY when they first launched the luggage company, which was really incredible and actually full circle. Jackie was one of the first investors in a way. So it's been really cool as we grow together. And she by then had sold her company and that was an amazing experience. I was head of partnerships there. Nine partnerships when I was there, from madewell to Karlie Kloss to NBA and travel obviously right now the time that we're in, it's interesting, but it's truly one of the most incredible categories to, like, change the way that you move through the world and think about that. And. Yeah. And since then, I. This kind of brings me to where Crown Affair is, which is after leaving away, had started consulting, doing brand strategy, go to market strategy, campaign launches, and worked with a range of brands from Outdoor Voices. I worked with Harry's on launching their women's line Flamingo in 2018, and worked with a baby food company called Yumi. That's really incredible. Buck Mason, as I mentioned the wing, I worked with them on their retail launch, which was cool to think about product for a membership base and grow that part of the business. And I was traveling a lot, and that was really when I started to see my hair kind of take a toll. And whether it was a hotel towel or using shampoo and conditioner, I wasn't normally traveling with or just really changing up my environment so much. Like, the water is really different in la and it's different in Texas, and, you know, the humidity and there's just so many variables. And that was when I started to kind of reroute myself in that ritual and routine and making sure that I always had my favorite, best products with me. In the way that you think about skincare, you never travel somewhere without your favorite skincare products. And people would ask me, as you had noted, like, what do you do to your hair? How do you get it that way? And I just shared a document. It was first an email and then became a Google Doc, which we need to share with the world. I have a revised one actually, now with a new routine. And it went from there. People were like, you use a $200 hairbrush or like, I can't believe this hair mask you use is like $120 from net a portai or whatever it was. And it was just very much a light bulb moment that, you know, first, there's not a ton of education and guidance out there beyond, you know, color styling cut. Like, you know, people have a really disempowered relationship with their hair around styling it unless they're basically, like, damaging it. You know, like, there isn't really like a care piece there. And then two, A lot of the products I love were just, like, really expensive, you know, And I think that there isn't much of a middle in hair. Like, I'm very here. I mean, I love a good drugstore product and I love a good. I love a good Target haul, but like, it was very clear that the difference between what was being sold at the drugstore, what was being sold on like more luxury sites and spaces and then everything in between. Like, honestly, you might as well just buy drugstore. Like, the quality of the product isn't that different. So it was just a little bit of a moment for me to be like, it's so crazy that people aren't connecting with this or have access to the products that can really transform their hair in small ways. So yeah, I was working on Crown Affair 1 consulting. It was very much a nights and weekends project, so you could call it a side hustle. And then there was definitely kind of a tipping point where I was like, okay, I think I want to do this full time. I think I want to raise money. Like, people had product. I was getting great feedback and you know, by then I felt really comfortable. This was like last July to really take the plunge and, and go forward with air.

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Okay, there's so many, so many things to touch on there. Number one, you're totally right. Like I, for years of my life, like majority of my life, I really thought that like you, you either were born with good hair or you weren't. Like it was that unattainable to me that it was. I didn't know that there was things you could do to actually make your hair look freaking amazing. So I think you're 100% percent spot on. And then when I did learn more about like what you can do with your hair, I was like, well I'm not gonna number one, spend the money cause it' been that important to me. Number two, I probably won't take the time so to have something like in between is like incredible because good hair makes you feel really freaking good. I had no idea how good it makes you feel until like even just my first like dry bar experience, I was like, wait, my hair can do this? I had no idea. So I'm grateful For people like you. Number two, I love that. I love the story of all of the different companies and things that you've done. And I've always. In people's journeys, I've always said, no chapter is ever wasted. You just have to really see what you're learning. And it brought you. It's so fun to connect the dots. The quote. You can connect the dots looking backwards at how awesome it is that this all brought you to this moment of this product that is now. Is this mostly online?

Yeah, so right now we're just online@crownaffair.com and we actually have one retailer that we work with in Hudson Yards in New York. It's like one of my favorite boutiques called the Conservatory. And we have some exciting retail partnerships we're going to be able to announce later this year. But everything's been a little on hold given the situation that those should be launching in the summer.

Oh, girl, I feel you so much right now. Yeah, everything is a little on hold on my end. So I'm like reassessing, which is gonna be. That'll be a fun conversation to talk about as well. Like, just the importance of pivoting. But I wanna know what was like. So now you have all of these. This amazing experience and all of these incredible lessons. Do you think that, you know, if you were just interested in launching this product right now, like, what would be the most important lessons that you would tell somebody to learn or to know before they started a company, maybe, and tell us where they were pulled from?

Yeah, I mean, the first and only thing that matters in consumer is that you have customers. Customers love that product. You know, you can do all of the cool marketing things. You can get people really excited, but at the end of the day, it's the customers who are keeping your business afloat and growing and continuing on. And, you know, I think I probably a few different places, I picked that up in small ways. I think I learned a lot from Tamara Mellon having, you know, for her building such an iconic shoe brand in the 90s and 2000s and seeing how women, or men, but mostly women, transformed when they had a product that they loved and kept coming back for more. Like, you know, you can think about practicality, but. Or look at Celine Dion, but it's like, how many shoes does a woman need? And the answer is like, it's endless, you know, and for her, it was about that emotional connection. And, you know, when I worked at Away, the customer always was the most important and truly only thing that matters. And making sure that their life is more seamless and better. So I would say that whatever industry you're in, whether it's a software product or a physical good or any category, like really understand who your customer is going to be. Like you don't have to be everything to everyone and like that also takes time to learn, you know, and understanding who they are, what they're doing. And again it depends on the product market fit the price point. But I do think it's really important to meet for us her where she is and find ways to fill their life beyond the product as well which we, which I can get into. So yeah, that's the first one. Talk to customers. You're gonna get so much information and data. You can do this before you launch too. Just pick a group of 10 people, do a one to one, get in a group. It's really, really helpful. The other thing I would say is like you know, know why you're doing this with whatever you're doing. I think Era who I mentioned earlier was who now has seed and was one of the co founders and the CMO at Spring. You know, she's been a mentor to me for, for since I've met her really. And she is so rooted in that mission of what brings her joy. And I think that really comes through in her product. And you know, I can't imagine not being the customer. You know, for me it's like what would she do or what would he do? Because I am that person. And yeah, I think like if I can. With every company I've worked with, if you can put something into the world that changes the way that person feels about themselves, then like that's powerful.

You know what were some of the tough, like tell me one of the toughest lessons that you learned that you did not see coming or you truly felt a certain way but were completely shocked about either an outcome or something like that.

Yeah, I think in a. I think one of the biggest lessons I've learned now is that like you just can't be nostalgic. Like things change so quickly and you know, I'm so grateful for all of the experience and learnings that I've had. But the truth is I would not do the strategies that we did four years in a way now, you know, it's like totally irrelevant. TikTok didn't exist the way people live and move through the world. So like being nostalgic about how you were, how things were, it's just, it's not a good way. And like you unfortunately myself Included, like, you learn that the hard way. You know, you. You don't move quickly enough or you think things are too precious. And, you know, beauty, fortunately, is a category that's like, not one. One winner takes all. Like, you can have multiple hair companies or multiple skin care brands. Like, it's not like just one thing that you're buying and that's the only product from that type of company you're getting. So if you're really lucky to be in that category, but I think if you have an idea, like, you just have to act on it. Otherwise, like, you know, people will get to market in their own ways and it will be totally different from what you would have done. And that's an important thing to remember too. It's like, you know, sometimes it's good to put some blinders on. I think in our world, in whatever context, you can look to other people. And at the end of the day, like, I think that people want to see from you something that only you can offer, you know?

Oh, God, I love that so much because it is. It couldn't be more true if we. It's like the second you start really looking around too, it kind of shakes your confidence. Like, there's this beautiful. In my opinion, this is just what I call it for myself, there's this beautiful naivety in just being so enthralled in your concept that you stay in that emotion that drives you forward of the sureness, that feeling that you got initially when you're like, oh, my God, this is it. I'm obsessed. This is exactly what I would want. And then sometimes we can go and look at other things and think, well, but she does it like this. Or it has this thing in it and people are loving this product right now. And you can get so diluted and you, you can lose that excitement for it if you keep. I can only imagine what that's like in beauty products as well, because there's so much that you probably do have to be like, I'm going to put my head down while I create this.

Yeah, no, 100%. And I think to that point, you also get so familiar with your own message. To the point. Been working on this for almost two years. So for me, it's like, I know these things. I know how to take care of my hair. But I'm like, oh, there's. People are hearing this for the first time, you know, and like, it is important to slow, low and slow. Actually, the best relationship advice of my life came from one of my guy friends and I now engaged and I've been with my fiance for seven years. But he said no one ever got mad at a slow simmer. And I think just low and slow build and build and like, that foundation is what stays with you. And you might look up, you know, two years later, five years later, whatever it is you're doing and like, it grows and those people stay with you. You know, even when you doubt yourself, you look to others and being like, oh, they're doing this, or this is happening. But like, you know, there's. There's a. There's a purpose. And I think all of us get. I don't even like the term imposter syndrome, because that's not what it is. You know, I think entrepreneurs at their core, like, you know, we've already taken the leap. That's the really scary part. But it's almost like little distractions along the way that can actually really derail the longer term vision. And I don't think it's any of our faults. We're just in our own. We're in our own thing every day, and sometimes it's hard to keep it, you know, the long term focus.

So I want to go back to the point where you said there was a tipping point for you, where it was just like, you know, you were getting asked about it and it's kind of like this, you know, as you're explaining the story. It seems totally like a natural way for you to go in your life and your career while you're telling it. But I'm sure when you were in it, it was like, can this really be it? Like, what is this was my side hustle. I wasn't sure if this was gonna be the thing. Like, what was the moment? Do you remember? Like, what was the feeling? Or can you explain to us when you really knew that this is something that you were gonna go all in on?

Yeah, there. There was two moments, and it's so. It's such a good question. So the first one is when a friend who's an investor who's invested in another hair care company was texting me nonstop because she needed to figure out how to take care of her hair. She's like, this isn't doing it for me. I haven't figured this out. I sat down with her, we put a whole ritual and routine together of what she should be doing, and her hair transformed just by doing this every day, making sure she was based off her hair type, what ingredients might be better, or how she should brush it, and. And that was like one of those moments where I was like, okay, this person's not getting what they need from whatever else is out there right now. And two, you know, it was this kind of connecting the dots. Like, you know, we ended up raising money and we were super strategic about how much we raised and how we're going to allocate. And, you know, I even think about, like, in the first investor deck, it was just like text message after text message of people asking me how they should take care of their hair. You know, the 60 to 90 days beyond the chair, beyond the dry bar, beyond the salon, which I'm like, here for. I. My, my hair and life would not be the same without my hairstylist. And she is like one of my closest friends. And don't get me wrong, I love having my hair, like, blown out, perfect, done. But like, there's all these kind of moments in between that I feel like with skincare color cosmetics, we've like, you know, they've been really democratized and people feel super empowered by their like 13 step Korean skincare routine. But, like, you know, hair was just kind of like falling to the wayside in a weird way. So as people were responding to it and I started talking to investors very casually, I was like, oh, wait, there's actually something here and I should do this. That was the tipping point because very candidly, I was still sending out proposals for clients and things for my consulting business. The lines were very blurred.

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So tell me about that journey. So you had had some. You had had some previous, like, experience and talking to different people and investors and you kind of knew about raising money. But what about people who have this idea? They feel super drawn to it. It's what all of their friends ask about. They know they're good at it, but they don't necessarily have that type of experience where they know they need a lot of money to get started or a decent amount of money, whatever that looks like. What do you say to somebody who maybe doesn't have that circle of influence around raising money?

Yeah, and very, I'm very candid about this. I went forward originally. I wasn't going to raise money because I'd been on the inside of these businesses. I'd really seen, you know, the pros, but also the cons of raising too much money and what that does to artificially grow and inflate these businesses, which is why we were really mindful about the number that we raised. But I think the best businesses are the ones that come from authentic community. So, yeah, for me, I was like, I have these relationships. I've worked in Venture Consumer for the last seven years. Why wouldn't I tap into that to just kind of keep this going? But I really think that if you have an idea and it completely depends on your product and what you're doing, but just start building a community and audience around it. Going back to the brand piece, yes, there's definitely customers who are just customers and never want to talk to you and might not follow you on Instagram and just are like, this is a great product. Cool. This is it. But for everyone else, like the other 90% of people, they are buying into something so much bigger than your product. And it is possible to figure out a way, if you have people who want to be a part of that thing and are a part of it, whether that's your Facebook group or a DM or a thread or whatever it is, or a blog, whatever it is that you're doing, you can build that business based off that audience. So, yeah, it's hard. I also think, like, you'd be surprised. Again, totally depends on your category. If you're in tech or, you know, it's a very, very different world with venture. But I think surprisingly, like a lot of, like, you thinking about if you did want to raise money, investors are lucky to invest in you. And I think it's so important to go into these conversations recognizing that, that you are Giving them an opportunity to be a part of the movement that you're creating. So it obviously was helpful that I worked with these companies where there were investors who were a part of building those movements. But even if not, I think you can still have an MVP or little thing. And for us, that was just like, it's not that expensive to make a hairbrush. I mean, it definitely wasn't cheap. But we found an amazing family in Italy who's been making tools for over 100 years. And we, you know, I put like, five grand into figuring out how to make samples, and I got, like, 40 brushes, and I, like, gifted them to friends. You know, it wasn't like we blindly raised without having product and product in people's hands. So I think it's always really good to see what you can do if you're able to do it before doing that, before raising money.

So really, like, you know, we're so lucky now with obviously the Internet being able to not have to necessarily be in retail stores and things like that, because that. What I'm. So I'm just thinking obviously of myself in this particular situation where a lot of, you know, with alcohol, it's not necessarily direct to consumer right away, just for licenses and things like that. Like, you really need to be in retail stores. So it's kind of like, with money in mind, like raising money in order to launch in the way that you want, you kind of do want to raise a certain amount of money. Or am I totally, like, off base with that?

No, you're totally spot on. And this is why it depends on what category you're in and what the consumer behavior is. And, you know, I think alcohol, it's interesting. We're definitely in an interesting moment in time because, you know, people are spending more time at home. And now having a retail store as a brand is crushing. You know, it's a really expensive overhead and, you know, with employees and whatnot. But I think with liquor in particular, it is such an experience piece. And also this goes back to the product just being great, you know, continuing to have a customer who keeps coming back. But there is definitely a limit to digital touch points. You know, you want to see and touch and taste and feel something. It just is usually a higher converter. And I think the brands right now, whatever category you're in, that we're seeing, really win, are getting creative around their storytelling and doing something different. So, like, how do you engage people in a conversation right now? I mean, I'm definitely drinking more at home. I'm for sure, having more alcohol than I usually do, because, you know, with the energy and being out, you know, even when I was going out socially, I just wasn't drinking as much. And very candidly, I feel like when I go out living in New York, I order a drink, I sometimes think about what the alcohol is in the drink, but it's usually just, like, the type of drink that I'm having. And now at home, I'm, like, finding a whole new connection to what's in my cabinet and with my food and with everything that I'm doing, whether it's my olive oil or my liquor. Like, I'm thinking about that, and I'm making such an intentional purchase in that way. But, you know, there is still a liquor store. We're ordering delivery right now from that. But I think that there might be creative ways to be able to build a community and audience totally separate of the product itself.

Mm.

It's hard, though. It's a hard category to do it.

I love that. Yes. You know what's so funny is it's actually, like, really exciting to me right now. And I love that you just shared that. I don't. I don't care what the person's product is or idea. Like, the ability to think different and pivot immediately. Because I've met so many people where there's a product that I would never think could pivot into different areas, and I'm like, oh, my God, you're a freaking genius. They pivot incredibly fast, and we're meeting so many, or we have so many friends who have pivoted really quickly, Whether it's they're just focusing on a new branch or they're creating a new arm. And I know that we had talked, and we'll talk about it in a minute, but even with you, like, you just pivoted into a different, you know, give back component with your business, which is fricking brilliant, especially right now. While people have time, why don't you share just a touch on something that you did? Because, number one, I love that you have this give back component. You did two, but you just launched one pretty much today, so you share.

Thank you. First, I totally agree with you. I think it's really important to be able to, like, recognize what people are responding to. And if you can pivot, like, just do it and test and see what's working. And, you know, for us, when everything first started happening with COVID in March, you know, we responded locally by giving back, but also by donating a portion of our Proceeds to no Kid Hungry, which is an incredible cause that I've contributed to and have volunteered with in the past. But you know, as the weeks went by and we were continuing to give, you know, part of our sales, it still didn't feel like it was totally the best way to give back and authentic to us. So while we were keep doing that. And I think it's important to donate if you're able to. You know, over the last few weeks we've just been getting so many college seniors, current, you know, graduate students, like people in this really weird in between moment who aren't sure what to do next, and particularly the college seniors. And we actually have a girl on our team who I adore, who is one of my interns and we just hired her this semester when she graduated. And you know, this is a group of people who can't file for unemployment insurance because they haven't had a job yet. And you know, they're also competing potentially with a whole group of people who have recently been laid off or let go. And you know, it's going to be really hard for them to write like we talk about Spring and into the Gloss. Like those first jobs changed my life. Like those were networks that I still continue to tap into and emotionally have filled me up in so many ways. And we don't, as you said, like those are the dots that you can look back and connect. And I don't want people to not have dots to connect when they look back at this time. So for us this morning, we just launched our Seedling program. So it's called Seedling by Crown Affair. And, and we're doing our first pilot program. It's going to be six weeks long right now and we're going to have mentors and mentees. People have been applying. The response has been truly insane. Like people who I've dreamed about and I've candidly never met before, but I look to as role models have applied on the site to be a mentor. And I think the intimacy of this, because we are still such a small and young brand, people are like, oh, I feel like I'm making an impact and this is a cool moment to connect with people that I might not have met. So we're really excited. I could see this going back to the like, you know, in a way it's like we launched a product but it wasn't necessarily like shampoo and conditioner. Like this is actually such a huge part of who I am. And you know, I think even like our love story of meeting at create and cultivate. Like, the reason that we participate in these things and feel like it's a part of who we are is because. Cause we want to be able to connect with people and give back, give advice. So for us, yes, we are a haircare brand, but, like, this is such a huge part of who we are, and I'm really excited to, like, see what happens, and I think it will continue to be a part of our mission and impact. So.

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I love it because there's, you know, I came from a background where there was no, like, mentor mentee. There was nothing like that. Like, I was homeschooled through high school, really restrictive religion. Like, none of that was, like, even in my sphere of knowing. And I can tell you that it wasn't until like my late 20s, early 30s that I actually even had a mentor or knew what that was in your life or any. And it was literally life changing. And it's what I've based everything that I've done around. So what you're doing is those moments where like I think having a mentor and having access, right? Access to answers, access like kind of just what you were talking about, like all of the different dots that have been connected through your story have always been through people and what you've learned through them or through, you know, different companies. But access to these conversations and this education around whether it's just learning, right, like education by fire of being like at the company. And I think what you're doing is like it's the most life giving, life changing thing that I think that you can do for someone is it's really showing somebody the way and also getting an opportunity for someone to breathe life over them and speak life over them. And a lot of people have never had that before. And that's I believe what can gives people the power to move into their dreams. So I'm obsessed.

Thank you. I love that too. And to hear that, finding that mentor for you as a partner to help you grow and also help them, I think that's the beautiful thing about this relationship is that the mentor and mentee, as much as I love the Karate Kid reference, we need each other. We need each other to grow and see the world in a different way. And. And yeah, honestly, I'm so excited about it. And we did this in the last two weeks. It kind of just came to us and we're like, let's just put this together, let's make an application, we'll make a site. It was very kind of turned it on and I'm sure we'll have so many learnings and a year from now the application and program will look really different. But yeah, it's been, we're really excited about it.

Oh my God. And we do need each other. I just have to share this like really fast story with you that I think you'll love. I was reading an article, I don't remember which state it was in, but the. There was a nursing home and they were having like a lot of health problems. They were finding that a lot of people after they, you know, checked in were passing away. Like they like morale was very low. And then at a local school that was near the nursing home, they were having a lot of problems with the kids learning to read like their Scores were really low. And so somebody thought of the brilliant idea of connecting the two and having this nursing home read to these kids every single week. And it was. I guess the morale went up. Like the life. These older people were totally thriving. Like, it became the place that people wanted to be. And the kids were reading. Like both parties needed each other. And this beautiful program is coming out of it that I hope spreads all over because we do. We need to feel that sense of belonging and that we can help people. And that also, you know, when we need help and that. That human. It's all connection.

Right?

It's just same thing goes back to connection.

Yeah, exactly. I love that story. And it's also like such a great textbook example of that power of connection and how you can really. You need someone to bring light into your life and realize different parts of yourself and each other. It's. I love that. It makes me want to be a kid again and. Or an old person and.

Or an old person.

Either. Sounds good.

Well, we get to be both in our lifetime. So what. What is a question that you wish more people, more women would ask you? Who had an idea or not even idea, someone who was launching a business. What is something that you wish people would ask you?

It's a really good question. I do think the why is important. Why are you doing this in the long run? Not just today, not just this year ahead, but what is it that you want to look back on as you launch this? Because. And maybe you don't have an answer right now, but even with launching Seedling today, I'm like, if this all goes down tomorrow and we did that, that's the impact I want to have. And the hope is obviously that Crown Affair lives on for a very long time as a product and company, but to be able to look back and be like, we put that together, that's what. So, like, why are you doing this? You know? And by the way, the answer could be as simple as, like, there is no other product like this, you know, whether. Whatever category it's in and it's going to change people's lives. And you can have no, you know, vision on the mission. It can be totally focused, but know why you're doing something. And I wish, I guess I wish more people asked me that because I love talking about it. I wish more people also asked about, like, how to build teams, because being an early employee, like, so I don't talk about the team building piece as much. Like, I'll talk about, like, oh, I joined this company early but like I love talking about hiring and it's something I'm learning. Like I'm not amazing at hiring people. I mean I am in this case because I've learned like I have to make such an effort because I think when, I don't know, I mean when I go into interviews and I meet people, I just want to have a good connection with people and that's not the ways, the best thing for building a business. And it's taken me a lot of research, conversations, talking to other people in totally different, like, you know, for me I'm CEO. My skill sets lie in marketing and branding and storytelling, not operations and supply chains. So when I hire for those roles, like I really live that network of people and like a vendors team I can tap into to be like, how do I hire for a head of operations? Because I'm not ahead of operations. So. So I think that I wish more people would ask me about that and all of us talking about it together and what's worked and also even the level of a person that you hire at the stage of the business you're in, whether you don't have funding or you do have funding and what you're really looking for. I think we need to have more conversations around how to hire and what it means to have you spend a lot of time with the people you're working with. I think it's really important to understand and align on values and the missions that you're doing together. So yeah.

Oh my God. So how do I get in on that conversation? Because we have been, it's so funny. We've had a team for quite a few years, probably like six years, like a small team, but it's obviously rotated quite a bit. And with that said, now moving into what I'm doing now I have to hire people that I'm, you know, people for supply chain, people for distribution, like experts in the alcohol industry. And I'm, I am. It's so foreign that it is easy to kind of default to. Obviously I'm going to have to ask for a lot of help and just information on it from people who have been there before. But it's, it's easy to want to hire the people that you do get along with right away. And a lot of times, like depending on how our guts talk to us, like sometimes our gut can just be talking to us or feeling a little, you know, off because, because it's just a language you don't even understand. And sometimes the person that. This has been the most interesting to Me, because I like to think that I have a really strong gut and intuition. And sometimes the people who really flare up my, like, ooh, you know, I'm not sure. Are actually the ones who have been the best for our company. So that whole thing, how do you navigate, like, your emotions with that? Especially when you want someone who you're like, yeah, we just hit it off right away. When, you know, sometimes the person that you're like, like me, they weren't really, you know, my favorite person.

But, yeah, so I, I. It's so true. And it's funny. I actually. Adam Grant, who's a social psychologist, I follow him on Instagram, but he definitely just, like, posts Twitter screenshots and is not a good Instagram follow. But he was saying today how often we overvalue the connections and relationships that we have that, like, feel good and are super pleasant, and we undervalue some of the relationships where someone's a little, like, more blunt or upfront. But, like, there's actually a lot of value from that honesty. And I think it's something I'm learning. And even with investors, too, it's like, how do you take that pause? Like, time is really the answer for me. It's like, how do I not immediately make a decision? And it's something that I have to train myself. I have to be like, don't reply to this thing for another 24 hours, so you can actually and marinate on it. And that's hard for me because I'm definitely the type of person who's like, let me reply immediately, or like, let me. And I, you know, going against that nature is really hard for me.

Oh, my God, I love that. I don't know if you've. I don't know if you like human design or have done it before. Have you done it?

I haven't done it. Tell me more.

I'll. I'll connect you with a girl. I think you will love it. It's a lot like the enneagram mixed with a bit of, of, like, astrology. But it was, like, completely spot on for me. And she had just told me in my human design, she's like, for big decisions, you really need one week. And I've always felt that, like, I want to rush into it like you do, but I get so clear in about five to seven days, like, it's. It's, like, more clear than, you know, it's just 100% for me, typically after about one week. And she's like, there are some people who take 30 days, like, she can accurately kind of, like, tell you how many days you need to make a really solid decision for yourself.

So I need to talk to her. No, it's. It's honestly a challenge for me, and I'm pretty open about that, too. And even, you know, my friends are like, don't reply to this investor email immediately or, like, you know, don't hire this person. The day being like, this is the person. And it's, you know, I think on one hand, a lot of beautiful, serendipitous things happen when you, like, kind of go with the flow and go with your gut, but. But when it comes to really important decisions and relationships like that, the really good ones are gonna last anyway. So time is what you have, you know.

Oh, my God, I so feel you on that. And I feel like people who know that it's a big decision and that it's very important aren't going to be the people who are gonna try to rush you into something. So that's just. That's been really helpful for me to know, too. Like, I'm like, if this is really a true, you know, business person who understands, they're gonna know that you need a little bit of time to actually make a decision like this and not force it on you. So that's really powerful. Tell me about some of the toughest things. Oh, go ahead.

No, I was gonna say also, too. Like, it's, you know, being the person who is hiring, like, you want to bring somebody on who wants to empower that experience for you, you know, and wants you to be like, you know, take your time with me. These are the things I can do. So that's been. Honestly, like, that's been transformational, too.

That's awesome. Tell me about the toughest things about having a team for you.

Yeah, I mean, that one in particular. On one hand, I think it's really important to not be hierarchical. Like, I want everyone to feel like they can sit on the floor with me and brainstorm or whatever it is, but finding that footing, to pause and have a moment to myself and then come back and realize that, like, I am a leader and I need to be a leader to everyone. Like this. I'm bringing them on this boat with me across the sea. Like, I can't be like, what are you? You need to kind of step away and have those moments of vision and clarity to do a better job. So that's probably the first one. But again, I think there's pros, too, to not being like, I'm a CEO in an ivory tower and not feeling separate because then the team is like, oh, we're in this together and you can call me and reach me at any time and let's build.

So.

So that's like the hardest one. I also just like, I never really feel like a grown up. I don't know if we ever grow up. Same yourself in those shoes is still something I have to work on from a visualization standpoint. And then, I mean, I've been so lucky to have incredible leaders and founders. I've learned a lot. And actually when I was working with Harry's, the two guys who founded it, Jeff and Andy, like, they are working there every day. They have desks that are just open desks sitting with the team. And I do feel like that's a really incredible way to grow something and build something and then just really feeling confident in that decision making. I do. And this is where the gut piece comes in. So after you've done the day or seven days or 30 days, at the end of the day, you're like, like, I'm the one who's making the final call on that. So that's been hard, but not in a way that's like challenging or frustrating. It's more like this is just a totally new muscle that I need to like, practice and exercise.

How do you not. So I think for. What I find is I work with a lot of women and especially, you know, whether it's the beginning phases of entrepreneurship or they've had a business for a little while. How do you not carry all of the emotion of your team? How. How do you make sure that you are connected to it, but you're not like, carrying the load of this, this, you know, all of their stress and all of their emotion. Like, how do you kind of keep a bit of a healthy bubble if possible?

Yeah, I, I love this question because I've definitely been the team member in this case. But it's funny, we have. We're a team of four people, all women. This is really a part of that hiring process. We're also only. We're less than three months old, so there's no, like, I. There's nothing crazy that's happened yet. I know that there will be crazy stuff inevitably down the line. But we, like, love, like, we're just. Everyone's really. I want everyone to come to work and do their job and feel so happy and like, excited about this. And I think coming from really intense work environments in the past, like, I just am like, here for work. Life balance. If you got to go to a dentist appointment at 11 o' clock on a Tuesday, you do you. I don't ever want people to feel that sense of anger or frustration or feeling like they're not being empowered. And I think the more that I let that go, truthfully, that was just something I craved as a former team member and employee, and I knew that. But as I was building a team, yes, finding that balance of being friends with them, but also a boss at the end of the day and the person that they're looking to and reporting to, but also not holding that over their head. And it's definitely a balance, but I feel like so far everyone really steps up, feels comfortable vocalizing what's going on. And I don't know if it's possible to scale that. I'm not saying or speaking for people who have of over 100 plus people, companies and growing businesses. I think the structure to be like, okay, these are the rules and you have to follow them. And I'm not available. But where we are right now, that's kind of how I'm approaching it.

And I love that it sounds like you're totally open to. If I get to that point, when I get to that point, then we'll have that conversation. But it's kind of like there's so many beautiful things about. If it's working and it feels really good for right now, then that's great. And until something happens. We've had to do that so many times. Like, until something happens or something where we need a new boundary or a conversation, then you do that. But you can't think of every scenario because scenarios are going to happen that you're like, didn't see that one coming. All right, new boundary.

Okay, totally. And I think too, I love that. The tone too. Like, I think about this with the One of our teammates that I mentioned that just graduated. Like, girlfriend better crush it after she leaves Crown affair. Like, I love you know what I mean? Like, this is. I know that this isn't my entire team's baby. This is my baby. And, like, I get that, you know, And I hope that everyone stays with us through the end of wherever this goes. But, like, I'm also super realistic that I. This is gonna be a couple dots on someone else's journey. So, like, how can we make this as amazing as possible? And for them to look back and be like, wow, that was like, that was an incredible time in my life because. Because, you know, that's what I had.

That's so Important. That level of awareness right there, I think creates such a good work environment because when people feel like they have to stay or that you're gonna, like, you know, they're, you're gonna be so upset or angry if they leave or it's gonna be a bad relationship or whatever that looks like, like, it doesn't actually create a good environment at all. Like, there, there's tension, there's weird energy. It's kind of like I, I. We use that language all the time with our people. Like, hey, you know, however long we get to spend with you. And like, you said, like, I hope this leaves you a better person. And you have to believe that when they leave, even if they were your best person ever, that there's a next best person that's waiting like, that that relationship has expired and it's time for something new. And I think that creates a really healthy, like, team environment. Totally love that.

Yeah.

So for somebody who is. Let's chat real quick. We'll do last question. There are a lot of people, myself included, who are always asking about, you know, how do you connect with the people that you need? Like, for me right now, and I'll just put myself in the shoes of other people as well, because I'm in the same shoes, so I guess we're in the same shoes. Talking about connecting with the people who, you know, that are important for you in where you want to go and what you want to do. I know that we always suggest, like, getting into different mastermind groups or getting into different networking groups, but let's just say for the position that even I'm in right now, like, needing to connect with people who were founders, who have raised money before, who have businesses, who have product businesses. What are some ways that are great to connect with people when you're someone who maybe you're not even on their freaking radar yet.

Yeah. So I think that there's so much power in the Instagram dm, and I know that they're not always seen or it kind of depends on the headspace that somebody's in. But if you, no matter who you are, if you craft a really thoughtful direct message or even email. And like, emails aren't that hard to guess. Like, first name at company. Like, you know what I mean? Like, just track it and you write something that's actually thoughtful and not just like, hey, I'm really inspired by you Would love to find a time to chat, get specific. Or if it's somebody who's not even necessarily inspirational, but could actually be A really good resource for giving feedback. People want to support and help a part of what they can contribute and create. So for me, I definitely go through phases. I'll get an email from someone and I'm like, okay, not right now, but then maybe it's one day that week. I'm like, wow, I'm so excited. Like, I do answer the emails and I find time to talk because, you know, there is a chance that the person you're reaching out to is the kind of person who recognizes that you never know where any interaction can go, you know? And I think that if you write a thoughtful email or direct message, like, super powerful and like, honestly, if that person is going to be helpful to you anyway, they're the type of person who's going to answer it. So it might not be immediately give them seven days. But, like, don't give up. Like, I am I. Not that I'm like, anything, but, like, I respond to every single inbound that people reach out to me. It might be. It might not be the same day, but I think that's really powerful. And again, like, be specific. Be like, I really like this thing that you did that. Or like, this has been really inspiring to me and like, here's how I've changed because of it. The other thing too is like, just, you know, I'm in a couple different Slack groups. There's one in particular from a marketing newsletter that I've been subscribed to this newsletter for years now. It's called Lean Lux. And it's an awesome newsletter if whoever's listening and you're into marketing by this guy named Paul Munford. And there's like millions of people who subscribe to the newsletter. And for the most active subscribers who are, like, really passionate about the space, there's a slack group of 700 of us. And that has been so incredible as kind of like an equal. It's just very democratizing. It's like, there's epic CEOs and founders and people in there, and then there's also just like really rad marketing managers doing killer campaigns for brands that you love and know. And it's amazing to be able to just send that person a note or, you know, emoji heart something, and build those relationships, too. So especially in this time, I mean, there's obviously power in the physical connection. I mean, the fact that we met at a dinner and spoke for a while and then, you know, have that immediate reaction and, you know, then we get on a call and it's so easy and there's that, you know, comfort there. But I do think that there's so many ways digitally that we can reach out and connect. And now more than ever, people are spending time in these places looking for connection. And, you know, you can give a lot of purpose to someone, like, if you're. Whether it's literally a distribution partner, you know, someone who might have started and sold their liquor company. Like, there's just. People are on the Internet. There's no physical footprint anymore. Right now, it's just the digital ones. So, like, now is probably the best time to be able to, like, make that connection without even having to meet, because nobody can meet.

You know, I literally love that because the other day I was thinking I was reaching out. I was doing that, just, like, randomly reaching out to people, and I was like, they're all home. Like, they're seeing, like, you know, they're checking things because I'm checking things because you're. You.

We're not going anywhere.

So it really is like. That is one bonus is I've noticed that more people are. Are answering, you know, DMs and things like that. So this is a really. It's a really unique time. Amazing, like, opportunity in history just in from that regard of, like, hey, they're online totally right now, so. Oh, my God, I could literally talk to you all day long. Is there anything I want to say.

One quick thing on that, too, because I could. I could talk for the next, like, three hours. I think something that I'm learning now for people that I haven't met before, and we're reaching out to each other, whatever it is, is because we're all home. And this is an unprecedented time. I go through waves. I have really great days, and then there's days where I'm not feeling great. And I think it's so important to be mindful that everyone's going through their flow. And there might be days that you're really living for good social content and memes and connection. And then you might have a day or two where you're like, I actually can't talk to anyone or look at this, because this is just a weird time. So I think on one hand, it is powerful because everyone's on their phone and checking stuff, but on the other, it's like, this is the first time any of us are going through this. So we'll see.

Yes. Oh, girl. I could just, like, last Tuesday was one of those weird days for me. I was like, nope, put the phone away. Get it very far away. From me. Yeah, it is waves right now, and it's. I think we're just so. You can almost mark the days because nothing else is changing besides, you're like, oh, that was a weird mood day. That was a great mood day.

That's.

That is one thing that has been like, I should just, like, start a journal or a calendar to look at just the ebb and flow of human emotion and, like, letting it all happen, you know, accepting all of it. So. Yeah. Well, this podcast has been freaking amazing for my life, and connecting with you has been awesome. So thank you so much for taking the time to connect. You know, right when I met you, where you were somebody who was just like, immediately, you just, like, shared and were so generous with your time and your knowledge, and I'm really, really grateful for that because those are the people that you bump into just along this path of life that you're like, oh, wow, that was easy. That felt great, and it just was a beautiful connection. So I just want to say thank you, and I want to make sure that everyone can find you and follow you and we can know all about your amazing company right now.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, first, thank you. The feeling, as I said, is really mutual. And. And thank you for creating this space and these conversations. As I said before we started, like, I've been listening to them this whole week, and it's been really inspiring. And the fact that you've taken this step to. I mean, I feel like everyone's like, I want to record a podcast, but, girl, you're doing it, and you're bringing on incredible people. And, like, that is something to be celebrated and something we need more than ever. So thank you for creating these spaces and conversations that would not exist had you not done it. Thank you.

Yeah.

And for those. I mean, Diana Cohen on Instagram, Diana with two Ns and all my channels, and then crown affair@crownaffair.com and seriously, you know, for those who want to dive in, myself and my team are on the other end. There's humans there. So if you get curious or want to talk about hair or life or want to be a seedling, whatever it is, like, we're here for it, and.

We will put that all in the show notes as well. And just want to say, like, you guys, if you want to try amazing hair products, her organic hair products, truly, I mean, your hair is ridiculously epic. And I do believe, yes, you probably were partially born with it, but partially like, my God, you've taken such amazing care of it. It's stunning. So thank you so, so much for this conversation. You guys, if you loved this podcast as much as I did, make sure you share it right now. Text it to a friend. Just share it with somebody who's maybe in this position or this space where, you know they want to launch something or something's already launched. And you know, Diana shared so much wisdom today that I know that you'll be able to not only help boost your life, but also help with your friend and the other thing that you can do. If you loved what Diana said today, you can tag Diana and myself on IG Stories and let her know what your biggest takeaway was from the podcast. I think that's always just a a beautiful gift for our guests to receive to see how they made an impact in your life. And until next time, earn your happy.

Bye, everyone.

Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to to share this episode with someone you think would love it, that would be.

Absolutely amazing and we would be forever grateful. Also, please leave us a review if.

You feel so moved by going to itunes and leaving us an honest thought, an honest comment. Tell us what you think, tell us what you want to hear. More of it would really help us.

Out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people. Until then, don't forget to earn your happy. Thanks again, guys.

Bye. Bye.