614. The Steps to Conflict Resolution in Business and Life - with Adrian Koehler

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I don't believe that people earn trust. I think if you think you've earned trust then you're really being naive because history doesn't guarantee future.

Welcome to the Earn your Happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of The Bliss Project, 3 Time Fitness World champion, fitness expert and cover model turned self love junkie, lifestyle entrepreneur and author. Each week I'll bring you a guest.

Or a thought that will help you.

Bust through your fears, connect to your soul and get get focused and clear so you can elevate your life, business and relationships. We don't wait until we're ready for someone to tell us we're good enough. We take what we want and we anoint ourselves. Get ready to earn, own and unapologetically rock your happiness every single day. Are you with me?

Here we go foreign.

Welcome back to the show and we have something so exciting for you. Chris and I have decided to bundle together all of our E courses and give you an early holiday gift. We are calling it the Holiday bundle.

And it's going to include Chris's the.

Money Principles Aligned and the Bliss Habit. So the money principles are all about helping you create the mindset and understand understand how money works and setting you up for financial success. And we all know that we can use a little bit more of that this year and in the next coming year. Also, we have aligned where it is all about aligning your life with your goals, your money goals, your life goals, your relationship goals and your tribe goals. And it's going to help you get really clear and focused on what matters and getting rid of those limiting beliefs in your life around those beliefs, blocks and upper limits. And then we have the Bliss habit which is a course that I made years ago but is really going to help you get into that place of flow. You guys, if you want this holiday bundle at a crazy low price, we're actually only giving it away next week. So if you want it next week, we're going to be texting you. You need to be on the text list. It's the only place you're going to.

Be able to get it.

I want you to text the word bundle B u n d L E because we're giving you a holiday bundle and you need to text the word bundle to 310-496-8363. Text the word bundle B u n d L E to 310-496-8363 and I'll be giving you all of the details on that. It's a really small window, but we wanted to make sure that the people who really wanted to start their year off with a bang to really create what they want for this next year that they got this holiday bundle. Now. You guys, I'm so excited for today's podcast. I have somebody who's been on the show before and you know, I love talking about solving problems, better ways to solve conflict. And you guys, I've had Adrian Kaler on the show before and I loved our conversation. He's a leading engagement expert and senior partner at the executive coaching firm Take New Ground. He coaches executives and entrepreneurs in the art and science of leadership for themselves, their teams, and their clients to create new, unprecedented results and experience fulfillment in their work. So whether you have a business or not, you're going to love this conversation because it is all about conflict resolution. So with that said, you can use this in your relationships, in your work life, in everything that you are doing. He is the founder and senior partner at Take New Ground, a leadership coaching, training and consulting firm based in Los Angeles. TNG partners with select executives and organizations to get the results they want by creating the culture they need. He's the co host of two engaging podcasts, Raising the Bar with Dry Bar founder Ali Webb and the Naked Leadership Podcast with t senior partner Dan Tuccini. Drawing on his background in philanthropy, ministry, activism, and medicine, he thrives in extreme environments and finds comfort in difficult conversations. Oh my gosh, we could all use more of that. In fact, his passion for human performance has taken him around the globe, serving people in times of crisis, transformation, and stalemates. Over the last decade, Adrian has trained and developed leaders at Nike, Virgin, Hyperloop One, Jenny's Ice Cream, Oprah Winfrey Network, Gavin de Becker and Associates. Prior to his work as an executive coach, he was the Founding executive director at the Cornerstone Project, a grant giving foundation that supports positive life transformation and spiritual reconciliation for the incarcerated. You guys, literally, I'm so excited about this conversation because if we become masters of really being able to move through conflict, it is amazing what you are capable of doing and what opens up. Not only that, but to feel more ease and flow in your life and not get so stuck in these conversations that usually stop us. So let's get started.

Adriene, I'm so excited to have you back on the show.

Yes, Glory.

Join the list of my favorites who I keep bringing on over and over. Like, I have this probably like five to eight people that I'm just like, anytime you want to come on and have a conversation, let's do it.

Oh, you're so sweet. I have been so overjoyed to get to know. I mean, our first podcast we did together was the first time we'd ever talked. Oh, that's right. And then we. So we got to know each other in a very intimate way during that time, and then since then, got to know Chris, and we just got to hang out for the first time in person last week. So. And you guys were huge. Huge. I mean, we, My team reached out after we got to know what you guys do, reached out and asked for a bunch of advice, and you guys freely gave it with. I mean, I was saying this, I've said this to you multiple times, but just so your listeners. I had an. After our first meeting with you guys, I literally. I don't remember feeling so full after a meeting. And I don't mean that just with knowledge. Of course with knowledge, but really just shocked, blown back by the generosity and spirit and expertise. Both are important, but, like, belief and advocacy and expertise, like, you guys are both the yin and the yang of that. Like, you really champion people and you know how to know how to help them. I mean, we were students of yours on that call, and you guys were, you know, giving away the store and anyway, so it's very. Anyway, thank you for how you show up in the world. Seriously.

Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you. It's always an honor to get to work with people that, you know, will just implement and, you know, are like, you guys are geniuses. You're already in your zone of genius. You're just now you, you know, pivoting. You were pivoting onto something a little bit different than you'd done before. And we have literally had people invite us to all day free masterminds with them. Like, they have blown Our minds. And I'm telling you, anybody who's listening, if you wanna know, we talk a lot about.

Right.

I'm doing this light pink, like summit webinar ish thing right now. And one of the biggest themes of every single, like entrepreneur, business builder, anybody who has anything is like, you gotta just nurture relationships and give back and like, see those other, see, see people who have that talent and like show up for them because it always, always, always comes back. Even if it's just for you, even if it's just for Chris. And I, like, oh my God, we made a friend. Or these people are geniuses, or it's so much fun talking to them. But we've also found, like, it's. We end up either doing business with people later or we end up just like having new friends or new people who really stimulate our minds or, you know, because we see people that we want to be friends with because we're like, they're brilliant, they're smart. This is such a compliment. We'd have so much fun hanging out, having elevated con. And I think honestly, that's why people love listening to this podcast and why I love listening to podcasts, because I'm like, feel like I can be friends with these people.

Yeah, I feel like, you know what? I was really late to watching the show Billions.

Okay. Yeah.

Finally, finally, I jumped into Billions during COVID I've already crushed the entire thing. But I listened to Brian Koppelman, the writer, he's the co writer of Billions. I listened to his podcast way I don't know, eight years ago, whenever he started it. The moment with Brian Koppelman. You should read, listen to it. If you guys haven't. He's great turnaround story lawyer, you know, didn't like his life or whatever. Decided to jump off, you know, jump off and start become writing movies at the age of 35 or something, which nobody does, obviously. And then his first movie was the movie Rounders, which is an amazing movie.

Yep.

Anyway, I felt like I'm watching Billions and it's like my friend did it, you know, it's like, Brian, that was so amazing. Great song, Brian. I mean, I'm like so proud of him because of my relationship with him from all the long form interviews. He's, he's done. I feel like, you know, we're friends. We're not.

Totally know that we're not friends. Yeah. So did you, okay, let's be honest. Did you like DM his Instagram and say, hey, I'm so proud of you?

I have not, but I should. I really.

He's nice to hear.

You know, you know what? I'm writing it down. This is my. This is my today list versus my to do list.

You give that compliment, you don't hold that back.

That's awesome. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Yeah.

You know, but I was thinking. I was thinking about. I mean, you illuminated a principle. I think it's really important that I see people miss all the time. And I think what you and Chris really do beautifully is you are naturally, and probably naturally, but also by choice, you know, humble and generous, like, both of those things. And so many people that are getting started out on anything, I think especially I don't know where this came about. They'll blame it on the generation, like gen Millennials and all people. Older people. Blame it on the younger people and how entitled they are. I don't think so. I think it's. I don't know where it's from, but the whole, like, I will do it. If I get paid, I'll do it. If there's a return, I'll do it. And that kind of mentality, first off, doesn't work most of the time because you're not big enough yet, or you're not whatever, enough yet. And so to ask them to get paid, it's like, what, Go take a walk, number one. But number two is, you know, you'll miss out on so many things, you know, so many opportunities and relationships that could happen if you were there to give something. And let alone, like, just that practice as a human, I'm actually there to think. I don't need to think, like, less of myself. Like, be depressed, but I don't need to think more of myself. Like, be grandiose. Like, humility, as I hear people talking about, is like, right size. Like, be right size. Like, hey, here's what I have to offer, and here's what I don't have to offer. Here's my deficits, and let me go see who has something to offer what I don't have. But then to go in and then be there as a contribution. I mean, that's what you guys are always. That's really what nailed me during our time together was like, how much of a contribution you guys are committed to being.

Oh, my God. Well, thank you for that. That just. So my love language is words of affirmation, so we're gonna replay that one when we feel bad.

Yeah.

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But I mean, this whole, just the whole beginning of this conversation, I hope that people, a lot of times there's so many before there's even like a business or when there is a big launch or with even what we're going to talk about today. And I always think that simultaneously while building the business, you need to be putting just as much energy into your relationships with no expectation. Because I think people feel the intention behind it. And of course it's okay to get excited about it if you're like, this could be a freaking epic partnership. But never having this feeling of, like, this has to happen, it's just like, I'm here, this is what's going down. I'm enjoying this present moment and these interactions. And if it stays this way, I'm so happy. If we move into something else, awesome. And that has been an art to just even, like, learn and settle into of. And I think that is like, I think behind it is like presence, right? Like just being like accepting all that is right now with no, like, I don't know, no expectation of what needs to happen. It's like a trusting.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. I mean, because there is, there is some scarcity and desperation and you can smell that on people.

Yeah, right.

And I can feel it. I can feel it when I'm like that, you know, like, for sure. I'm trying to land a babysitter for tomorrow because mine dropped out and there's one came over to like, do a little interview and she probably. I was holding back. I didn't want her to know how much. What she could have said, I'm $50 an hour. I'm like, okay, you're in.

Exactly. This podcast will go out after that. So that's great.

Yeah. The point is, like, people can feel the. You can feel the desperation and your world gets a lot smaller and it gets naturally much more selfish if you're desperate. Right. Because you're out for survival. Because now it's like, I'm here to get my needs met. And that's a very distinct way of looking and being in the world. And you know, people can sniff that, like, what's this guy up to? They won't know it, but their intuition, like they're all the mirror cells, they call it. You know, in our, our, in our neurology we can pick up when somebody's off. We don't know why, but we mirror other people. So when we're trying on how somebody else is showing up, our intuition knows something's off with this guy. And it's usually selfishness, it's usually self, you know, just the self focused. That's what happens when you're desperate or when you're scarce. But to, you know, to your point, when you're there to see what. Not what needs to happen or what I have to have happen, but what might want to happen or what are the possibilities are.

Oh, I love that.

How do I help the other person win? If you just start that, like, how do you help the other person win? You're not only do they like you because that feels awesome, but you're actually a different person. You show up as a generous person in the conversation and you know, when you're around generosity, you get you, you just feel better, you're warm, you're de. Escalated, you can, you know, you like, you trust the person, you know.

Yes, I love show up for what wants to happen. Like there's a plan in place and when you, I personally think when you surrender to it and you show up as that person like thing, those things are going to just, they're naturally going to happen or they're not. So as long as you're showing up as your highest self and like really, you know, giving your gifts as well, like, I think that's huge. I think, you know, when we don't give our gifts because if you have so much to offer and you're not helping people, that's actually painful to, to you, right? Not using your gifts. So let's get into this because you have got something real quick. Yes, absolutely.

Because I'm in. I mean, I like the showing up as your higher self. And that's an aspiration. Probably everybody listens to this, wants that, and I'm just thinking about, and this would be a lesson probably for myself over the last four years of my life is if I can't be my, what do I do when I can't be my highest self, you know, in a moment or can't is a strong word. But let's just say I want to Be my highest self, but I'm not feeling it.

Yeah, been there.

And you know, I mean, it happened for me this morning. Allie and I are getting ready and we're doing a couple different podcasts this morning. And. And I was just telling her, oh man, I'm stressed this morning. I'm like feeling overwhelmed this morning. She's like, what you? You know, and it was just good to just say it. Good to say, hey, this is what's going on for me just with like all the stuff that was happening that was in place, but then all the stuff that's happening in my personal life and get the kids stuff figured out and the school and did it and all that. I mean, anyway, I think, I think this moment in time we're in is maybe at a pinnacle point complex.

Yeah.

And if you're like me anyway, you know, your brain can be 50 places at the same time and that it's hard to get through the fog and get to kind of how I want to feel and how I want to be in the world. And I only say this because I know for me, I need to hear sometimes, you know, buddying up to the self that's available is also, also works, you know, like, if I can just say, hey, it's good to be with you, man, I am scattered today.

Yeah.

Something about like, it's a confession only. A confession only feels like a confession because we all have this like high expectation on ourselves and we. Especially if you're in a service oriented role, like you are like, I am, like, I gotta feel like I'm the guy with like the energy and the clarity and the conviction and the articulate and all that. It's okay to just be where you're at as long as you own it. Because if you don't own it, you'll fake it, you know, trying to be someone else in the moment. But there's something really attractive and I'll stop. I know I'm talking a long time.

That's what it's for. So we're good.

There's something, well, in some ways talking to myself right now, but there's something really attractive about someone that owns their whole being. Like, owns their light side, owns their dark side, owns their, you know, best intentions, owns their crappy intentions. Someone that can like really dance with and own all of it and just put it in language and actually becomes a connection point to someone else. I know that's. That has. Is my occurrence when I actually say, hey, I need some help. Yeah, man. My relationship with that Person gets stronger, which is contrary to what I think it's going to take to make the relationship work. Usually I think I got to be the strong one or be the service oriented one. When I let myself, when I just acknowledge the needs that are here other, all of a sudden, people want to engage.

Oh, God.

It's 1 million percent true. And I think sometimes there's this mix when you're especially in business, to look like you have it all together all the time for sure.

Right?

And that's what so many people are afraid of, even putting themselves out there. What stops people is like, do I have to look perfect? I have to look like I know what I'm doing? I'm like, you just started. You're totally gonna fail in front of people. But I know for me, just exactly what you said, like, the vulnerability. I had so much trouble connecting in my 20s with women. That's why I wrote a book on friendships, because I was like, this is really hard. And I thought that by me. And I feel like we're really similar in this vein. So from what you just said too, I thought that in order to be valuable in my relationships, that I had to be adding value all the time. So it was so I wasn't allowing myself to, like, people would be like, how are you?

I'm great.

How.

Let's talk about you. So then I was, like, never feeling connected to people. And also, I was starting to get resentful of some of these people. It's like, they never ask me how I am. And looking back, they were asking me. I just didn't tell them the truth. And so you're 1 million percent on. Like, it's actually the people that I'm really connected to now in my life. Like, I have no problem being able to be like, hey, today is totally crap. Here's how I feel. It is hard. I feel anxious over this. You know, I got this crappy email. I just need to talk about it and get it off my chest. And, you know, all these different things. So I think that's so powerful. And for what you do and for what we're talking about today, I think it's a superpower, right, to also be able to connect in that way. Because I think when people just gloss over everything, a lot of people are like, wait, what's going on underneath there? Like, I'm scared when that's gonna go off or whatever that looks like, because it probably will at some point. So you have.

I know that anybody that I meet that's like, I Call him a nice guy. Like really works hard to be the nice guy. He's full of anger. Most guys are really full of anger. They don't, you know, because it's like the shell. And there are a lot of authentically nice people, you know, and I think we're all. Not all, but most folks are like, are authentically nice at times. But if somebody's trying real hard to be super nice or things are great all the time, there's usually some. I mean, I only know this from experience in my own life too. You're trying real hard to make it look good. It means it's really not good.

Yeah.

You know, so. And I mean, part of the work that's come out of meeting with you and Chris and the focus that's come out of it has been really helpful to kind of put some more language to that, you know, because I'm a bothered person by nature. I'm bothered. You know.

I think a lot of.

People just said, I'm so glad he said that. I'm frickin bothered right now.

I'm bothered. You know, it's like, I don't know, I don't ask my brain to wonder about stuff or worry about things. It's just happening.

You're a survivalist.

I'm a survivalist. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And, you know, prone to, like, having an opinion about how I want things to be. And I think leaders are bothered people. You know, if you're gonna start something, you start something for a reason. And the reason is something doesn't exist that you want to exist or something should exist or there's.

Or something bothers you and you want to change it.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. Whether if it's in the, you know, you know, commercial sector or in the private or like the, like, nonprofit, like I've heard somebody, an old guy said, like a holy discontent, like something must happen here. There's something that I want to see happening. So, you know, leaders are bothered folks, you know, and so I connect with that.

Yeah, I love that. And you've created a lot of solutions around leaders who are challenged right now, who are going through a lot of challenges. And let me tell you, they're always challenged. But I think especially right now, you're adding, pivoting, you're adding the challenges of just figuring out what the hell to do with your company and your business and yourself, because what a lot of us aren't talking about too, you know, especially people who I think are good at, you know, showing, just continuing to show up even when things are hard.

Is that in the background?

We're energetically getting really drained right now because of all of. We're mourning the loss of a life that we thought the way we thought life was going to be. And I think that that's energetically just like draining the crap out of people along with putting people on edge along with you trying to be now like super strong for your team, whether that's one person, three people, 20 people, 50 people, whatever that looks like. And now you're doing this. Now you're trying to do this virtually for the most part. So you talk so much about how to have a cohesive team and conflict with your team and communication with your team. And I know that you've created the ultimate free training. You guys first, before we get into it, because we're gonna touch on some of the points, I just want to tell you, you can go to FrustratedFounder.com right now and you can get the free training that we are going to walk you through. Not step by step because you're going to want to go and take it, but we're going to talk about each point. So who, like, who do you, who is this for? Who do you focus on and who.

Have you worked with before?

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You know who I've worked with before? I've worked with lots of different types of people and I've been at this on my own and then having business partners at Time. I've got an amazing business partner that you've not met. Oh, you have met. You have met Dan.

Yes. Oh, he's awesome.

Yeah, he's just. He's a sage. I joke. Dan is like a combination if. If Yoda and Mother Teresa and Tony Soprano had a baby.

Oh, my God.

Yes. You know, he's a lover. He's really wise and mysterious, and he'll knock your. You know, he'll hit you in the ball pen, hammer in the knees if he needs to, for your benefit. Most of the time.

Most of the time.

But anyway, I've been. I've been at this for 10 years, so I've worked with lots of different types of people. And this. I would say this specific coaching paradigm and approach. I mean, I'd been doing leadership stuff for a long time and was a pastor for a handful for many years and nonprofit philanthropic leader for years and ICU nurse for years before that, and mostly pediatrics. So, like, leading people through crisis has been. Has been something that has been interesting to me and a place that was so meaningful to me. So no matter what the context was, I was always interested in, like, getting in there, like, go towards the fire type, and I'm. That sounds cool. I don't mean it like that. Just whatever. For whatever reason, that's a pretty big deal.

That's a pretty awesome superpower to have. That's why I think what you do is. That's why I think it's so important for people to learn this and learn what you do, because you do make it like, oh, this doesn't have to be so bad because it's hard.

Yeah. For whatever reason, I think I'm crafted that way. And for a long time, my intensity seemed like a problem, even to me, and seemed like a problem to lots of people in my life. And it was, you know, for people that, you know. And I get it. Yeah. I'm intense. Or too serious. I was always, like, too serious as a kid or like an old soul or would you relax? Or, you know, anyway. But as I've matured and as I've, like, adopted, that's this side of myself, the intense side, and, like, the part of me that just wants the real conversation, like, what's really going on, you know, like, the real deal. Can we get to it? What's. You know, what's the. You know, let's get. Let's jump, let's scuba dive, not skip on the surface type Thing because I can't turn that part off as. But anyway, point being, as I've adopted that side into myself and not ostracized it, it ended up really showing itself up in this type of work. So in the beginning I was working mostly with solopreneurs, small business owners. I liked them. I was the age of most of them when I first got. I started this when I was 30 and so most of them were solopreneurs running 100k to 500k business. And I got it was them and a spouse or them by themselves or them with a very small team of, you know, contractors and they were doing, you know, whatever like those shapes of businesses and I loved working with them because they were scrappy and hungry and you know, the business rose and fell on their capacity and that was fun. And then got into. I got my first corporate client working in the. Sorry. In the corporate world for an international architecture firm. Just because I volunteered to go in and do like a two hour free lunch thing, you know, like one of those. To the point earlier. Hey, would you come in and do this thing? Yeah. Is there any money? No. Okay, I'll come do it. As long as the influential woman, her name is Katie. As long as Katie's in the room and I can meet with Katie afterwards, I'll do it. And I did it and it became a whole bunch of work and immediately I was coaching 14 vice presidents at this international architecture firm all over the globe. Way over my head and doing these trainings and you know, figuring it out.

Yep.

Anyway, but over time worked with, you know, all very relationally, you know, built stuff. So we're working with Nike and doing lots of work with their marketing team mostly and the creative leadership team and most on the east coast to their. At their New York headquarters and now up in Portland getting to work up in the Portland area which is great and a whole new arena there. Coach, founder of Hyperloop here in LA and Jenny from Jenny's Ice Cream and.

Oh, oh my God, one of my. Sorry I cut you off but I literally. My co host that I co host a show on here with wears a Jenny's Ice Cream sweatshirt pretty much every day.

So I'll have to tell her Jennifer is amazing, amazing leader, amazing woman, amazing being in the world. She's. Anyway, so I love working with all types of folks but all my folks gotta have some kind of. They all have some kind of angst to them, some kind of desire. I mean I think on my Instagram it says, you know, coach Only for the restless and relentless. I think that's what I put. Because I like both of those qualities. I like people that are restless. Like they gotta get up, you know, they really want every day to matter. Yeah, that's a restlessness. And people can worship contentment. And I get it. I mean, I get the desire for contentment. People seem like contentment is like the goal and that's cool. I like people that are. I like people that are restless. Like, what do we want to see happen? I mean, for even myself when I've got that kind of frenetic energy, it's a little much for me. But I like people that are restless and there are people that are relentless. Those are the folks, I mean, you know that people that want to challenge.

I think there's people who are listening on here, so I think they're probably pretty excited about being able to take this too. And you have an opportunity on your site to coach with you, which is so cool. For free. Like a free coaching session.

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With that said, I want to talk about these five things. Let's see what we can get through Hug the cactus. What does that mean?

Yeah, hug the cactus is an old idea from what they call the Desert Fathers. They were like the early religious Christian leaders, actually, that were. And they. They talked about it. I think it came from Thomas Aquinas, but they talked and. I don't know, maybe Augustine. Who else? Anyway, the idea is this, is that they said, hug the cactus. Like, whatever you want to run away from, you must embrace.

Oh, say that again.

Whatever you want to run away from, you must embrace. And there is. So that's why they call it hugging the cactus, because we want to run away from it. Because mostly, you know, occurs to me as a threat or something. Some. It connects to the shame story I have about myself and what's wrong with me or some judgment that somebody gave me a long time ago or what Adler would call like a life lie. Like the thing we're scared to death might be true about us. You know, I don't know anybody that's a top leader that doesn't feel like an imposter at times.

Oh, yeah, right.

Like, oh, I hope they don't find it. I have no idea what I'm talking about. Yeah, I hope they don't know. Yes. I've got all this history, but I've never done this before, and I'm scared to death.

Oh, preach.

Right. It's like that. That, you know, so that's like the. I hope they don't find out I'm a fraud.

Yep.

And that's like, you know, anyway, the idea is whatever you're insecure about, you know, that's what you go try on. It's like, okay, go get close to it. When I'm usually talking with this about. People are usually frustrated because there's a conversation or relationship that they're working really hard to avoid. And at some point, and they know it, everyone, every leader knows it for sure that I can't keep letting this happen. Like, and I'm pointing the back of my head, people can't see me, but there's some conversation somewhere where it's like, I'm going to get to that. And at some point I'm avoiding it, and then I know I'm avoiding it, and then I'm trying to justify avoiding it.

Thank God I have one right now.

There it is. You want to talk about it?

Nope, not yet. Not yet.

Not Here, we can do it afterwards.

Not here, we'll do it later.

Let's change the names to protect the innocent. So. But, you know, it's those things, right? You're a leader. You've got a lot of moving parts, and there are things that you embrace fully and things you'd rather not. And at times, the things we're avoiding, that's fine for a while, but then at times we need to do it. We need to deal with it. But in the meantime, we spend so much time. All of us do this. This is like a human thing. We spend so much time justifying why we're not dealing with it.

Oh, my God. Yes.

Right. And it's. It's for some. For some people, it's. I'm not ready yet. For some people, it's a judgment of them, something wrong with them. For some people, it's like, I'm busy, I'm overwhelmed. I'm going to wait till I get past, fill in the blank. And we just have to. We typically spend a lot of energy trying to justify why we avoid it. And at some point, a couple things, we're gonna get our energy back, get our spirit back to us, because we can't. I don't know. I think it's hard. I'm gonna say it. Something dramatically. I don't know if it's true this dramatically, but, you know, we can't. I mean, we feel our inauthenticity. Right. When I know I'm lying to myself and I'm betraying myself, that takes energy and it really haunts us. And everybody I work with, they're all haunted. Haunted by what they know they could be dealing with and they're not dealing with. These are all private conversations. I'm speaking about them. Like, it's like everyday thinking. It's not. But it's like somewhere in them, they know there's something I could be doing that I'm not and I feel bad about it, or there's something that's a possibility for me that I'm not pursuing.

Oh, yeah.

Both are hauntings, right?

Oh, dang. That one just gave me chills. Yep.

Yeah. Why did it give you chills?

Because I know that I can be right, especially in the position that I'm in right now. I know that I can be doing the asks and the things that I know are in me and connecting with who I want to connect with. And I'm like, hesitating on some of them. So, yeah, when you said that, I was like, I know those.

I Already.

Those possibilities are already in my universe, but I'm literally kind of like, hey.

Like, I'm busy today dodging them.

Exactly.

Oh, I was too busy today. Yeah, that's what it was.

Yeah. Well, good for you. And whenever I'm talking to a client, when I say good for you, I'm like, oh, that's like, honest good.

Yeah, I love that.

Owning is, like, good for you. I was like, yeah. Oh, you know, I mean, we can only. I mean, we're all inauthentic at some level, right? We all are. We exist as wanting to be something we're not yet. You know, I mean, if I think if we're alive, there's something we see ourselves we want to be. There's some version of ourselves we're aspiring towards. And if we're dreaming, if we're hoping, if we're wanting, we're not there yet. Right? So, you know, it's this dance between, you know, having desire, but as a part of desire, we're going to feel inauthentic because we're not what we hope we are.

Oh, God, that is like, such a cool. That could be a whole podcast in and of itself. Like, we all want authentic, like, to be our full, authentic self, yet there's going to always be something that's, like, not fully expressed.

That's right.

So you're going to feel inauthentic, which doesn't feel aligned, even though that's kind of how it's supposed to be. Which comes into that, like, holy. What did you say?

Discontent?

Yeah, like the holy discontentment is that dance between, like, shit, there's something that's supposed to come out and I'm not doing it. It's like a readiness, right? Like, maybe you feel like your people aren't ready for it, or you wouldn't be loved or you'd be shamed for it, or who. Who knows what those things are?

We talk about it. And I'm only writing something down to. Just to show you. When I'm at a training, I'll do this chart like this. There's a vision at the top and current realities at the bottom. And the journey is to get from where we, you know, what. We get clear on what we want and then get honest and sober, which usually takes the most work about where things are.

Oh, yeah.

And then this is the gap, right? There's a gap between where we want to be and where we are now. And hopefully that gap is big, because if it's big, that means we have a big vision.

Right.

If the gap is small, we've. Usually what most people do is lower the vision. So I don't feel so bad about the distance between where I am and where, I quote, unquote, could be. But if we. If we're having an authentic conversation about us, about ourselves, and about what's possible in our lives, we're gonna have a big vision and we're gonna feel the tent. I mean, so that's what. So what happens in the. In the journey. This is why I'm bringing it up, is a natural thing that no one connects to. The hug the cactus idea is no one can avoid this tension. There's a tension between what could be and what is. And if we're doing it right, and this is what we do in all of our trainings and all of our work is illuminate the conversation about. In the tension. That's where the transformation occurs. Because I can't. I must transform to presence, the next thing. To create the next thing. There's something I must give up in order to get the next deal. There's a voyage I must take. I mean, speaking about it poetically, but we all know, I mean, in this one, I gotta go hug this cactus to get the value that's waiting behind the thing I'm avoiding.

Oh, God. Okay, so takeaways from this one. It's definitely that, like, confronting it. The sooner you confront it, the more free you'll be. The more space you clear up for probably that thing that you're waiting to come in. It's really amazing what happens when you have those tough conversations. And I. I do know that. So. Coming right up. Coming right up. Okay, so number two. Get high.

Get high. Yeah. So if you're willing to hug the cactus, like, you're willing to want what you got, then you get high, right? So we say get high. It's kind of funny. But to get some elevation to get above what's happening, because the view on the. On the ground is very different than the view. If you can actually get some objectivity.

Oh, yeah.

Get above it. Right. So in some ways, you have to attach first, like, want the conflict, and then you got to detach from it. Like, look at the conflict. Which. Which.

How do we do that?

It's been so personal for us. That's why we haven't gotten, like.

How do we. How do we look at it without feeling so emotionally spiked?

Well, that you gotta.

Or is that a part of it?

That's a part of it, I would say. I mean, because there are I was just in a conversation with the team this morning and there was a conversation that was happening. That is all I could tell was always happening. Like a conflict between two of these very top notch brilliant minds. And they were both disagreeing about why they missed the deadline. And I could tell it was a historic conversation only because both parties are very positioned. Nobody's listening. They're just stating this, stating that. Right. And I said, hey, why don't, you know, we suggested, why don't you guys take this conversation offline and talk about how. What do we need to talk about that makes this the last time we argue about this?

Oh, oh, that's good. We always leave room for more conversations. Okay, keep going.

Wow.

And I said, by the way, you've got a lot of judgments of one another. You ought to just start off there. Like what? Here's what I don't like about you, but I'm assuming you don't like about me. And let's go both sides, you know, because they're both brilliant minds and they're both top notch. They wouldn't be where they are in this company if they weren't world class. But they don't like each other. And the part of the not this connects to the. What do you do about all the feelings? You gotta. I mean, the feelings want language. So if you give language to the feelings, all of a sudden it's not so personal. It comes out and there's actually a set of concerns, there's a set of experience that you need to like, illuminate and offer to the other person. That's where actually why, like, if you're offended, sharing the offense with someone that's offended you actually gives a shot to like, re. Articulate the relationship. You might find out something you didn't know before. Like, for a year I've been thinking, in that meeting a year ago, you said this, and I'm sure it meant that. And the person probably didn't remember the meeting, but even if they did, they might have meant something very else. And all of a sudden you've put yourself in shackles for a whole year by judging the other person. Because if you're bitter, you've shackled yourself, right? If you're in unforgiveness, you're shackling yourself. But just by having a conversation, you can release it and let it go. So, I mean, I would embrace the feelings beyond, but you know, the feelings are typically there to protect you from the real conversation.

Oh, dang. I'm guessing that this program also helps you kind of facilitate and walk through or at least kind of have a little bit of a roadmap, which would be super powerful because I'm like, oh, yeah, gonna use you in some conversations in the future just for, like, when I know, because they always. They'll always come.

Right.

And I think sometimes having that facilitator can be so important just to be like. Like, because you're creating a container of like, we're doing this now.

Yeah.

This is happening and we're gonna solve it. We're not gonna have to have this conversation again. That is really powerful. And even just going into that with that mindset, that was really powerful for me. Like. Right. Because nobody wants to be even having these feelings and thoughts again. Like, I can't go another day with this irritants again.

Yeah. Well, when you're. When you're disconnected from somebody, you know, that takes energy.

Yeah.

And the beautiful thing typically is. And I have to remind myself of this when I'm disconnected or judgmental of someone or whatever, the situation is, is that the other person is probably feeling the same way I am.

Oh, God. That's the truth. Like, that's the thing.

I know.

Which makes it worse.

Yeah. Well, I mean, both of us are, like, really complaining inside of ourselves about being disconnected, but that might be the most connected thing we have. Like, you know, when I do any work with couples, which comes up quite a bit is, hey, the disconnection might be the connection point. Like, we both don't want this. We both are unhappy. We both wish the marriage was different. We both wish the business partnership was different. We both wish the blah, blah, blah and whatever. We have a shared complaint. That is actually a connection point. And people don't, like, usually think about it that way because we're busy judging the other person. But if we get off the judgment for a second and connect even in the disconnection, that is like a. Usually a great. A great starting point for people.

Yeah. See this. This applies to. I didn't even think about it for just even. Well, I did, but even for family, relationships, marriages, things like that. It's interesting because I, I'm.

I'm interested in your.

You know, who you normally work with. Do. Do they tend to, like, does it show up in their family as well? Or are they, like, usually on. In one or the other? Like, for me, I feel like I can just talk about anything pretty much in my, like, marriage and some of my, like, close friendships. But when it comes to, like, outside of that, like, when I'm either working with someone, working with a different team, working with, you know, our employees, whatever that is. That's the challenge for me. Like, I don't want to hurt people's feelings. And I think that's most everyone. Right. But I know it's not helping. But I know it's not helping by hiding it.

Yeah. Well, I think the conversation is really about trust. And at least here's what I make up about what you said is that, you know, with certain people you've got some established trust.

Yes.

Which is a bestowing. Like, you believe that if you really blow it with Chris, he's gonna. He's got room for you.

Yes, I do.

You can blow with him. You can, you know, be off with him. You can be judgmental, you can be snotty, you can be whatever. And he's gonna, at some level absorb it and say, hey, you know what, honey, here's what I think you mean. Yeah, and you guys are going to get connected. And you might. I mean, there's not. And there's not. Might not be the trust that's there already with the other folks. Especially if, you know, it's interesting, you know, because you've got authority or at least the person like a co worker that, let's say somebody that's on your team. And there might. There's. There's some kind of dependency. But dependency is very different than trust. Trust is, you know, can I really be myself here? And you not only accept it, but you engage it, and you want to stay in the conversation, and they actually give you the benefit of the doubt that whatever you bring up and however you bring up, we're aligned enough in a vision that however you show up is okay in the moment. Right. Like, you can show up weirdly or angry or whatever. The thing is, and there's a group connection to some vision that says, hey, no matter what happens here in this conversation, we're going to work this out. And that is a practice. I don't believe that people earn trust. I think if you think you've earned trust, then you're really being naive because history doesn't guarantee future. But it does take guts to sit down. And if this were a coaching conversation, great, I'd have a handful of questions to ask you. But, you know, I'll talk about it theoretically. Now is, you know, I'd be curious, like, what am I really scared of is gonna happen?

Yep.

You know what, what is that there? Because it's showing up as a fear. That's why I'm avoiding It, there's probably a legitimate concern. Right. I don't want to hurt their feelings. That's a concern. I don't want them to feel deflated. That's a concern. You know, I don't want to stunt their growth. I don't. Don't want probably for most people, I don't want them to leave potentially, you know, that's a concern. I have to replace them and that's expensive and there's time and energy and so, you know, these are all concerns. You can manage around the concerns, actually speak right to them. Because you could start off a conversation saying, hey, I really. Here's a handful of things. You know, there's a thing I want me to talk to you about. There's a handful of things that. Why I haven't talked. I've been thinking about this for like a month and I haven't brought it to you. Here's a few reasons why. Because I really love you, I care about you. I like your. I'm making up the whole scenario, by the way. But I like you here. I like you on the team, you know, so you're really soft on the person. And if you do that really well, then you can be really hard on the problem because the problem is like what's happening or not happening, what they did or didn't do. It's not about them, it's about what happened.

Yes. Wow. I think that's such a beautiful distinction for people to hear because you can make that. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Like, I don't like the job you're doing and I don't like you. That's not what it's saying. It's really like a beautiful, it's a beautiful distinction between the two that is so powerful. I literally was going to write wow on the paper and just wow.

I think about that. My first coach, Eileen, who now is our VP of client development, she's the one that was the first one that taught me that. That was 12 years ago. And she was saying, like, be hard on the problem, solved on the person. That's become a mantra for me. It was what we talked about today in this high stakes coaching group, the leadership coaching session we had with a very influential company in the US we talked about. Because these guys are all engineers, so they're all head.

Oh yeah.

Thinkers, right. They're top aerospace engineers and we need to bring heart into the culture. And if that happened and I'm not a guy that's like, hey, let's go do trust falls and give everybody big bear hugs. I think that'd be cool. Yeah. And be a fun experiment. But the. You know, but it's really. You do care about. You care about people enough to tell them the truth.

Yeah.

I mean, the truth doesn't have to be a weapon. The truth can actually be a connection point because I get you and I get what you're up to. I get what's not happening. And I want to partner with you to make this happen. If, and I'm speaking specifically into the work context is like, if it's not happening, there are reasons why it's not happening. And, you know, and there might. There might be competency issues or attitudinal issues. Like, you know, for example, this company I keep alluding to, they were startup for a long time, now they're scaling now. They're huge. And now they have their assistance, their big system, you know, and people that are. A lot of people that are frustrated have been there a long time. It's a very different world now than it was when they started up. And so they might actually not want to be there anymore.

True.

You know, and nobody's given them permission to move on or nobody's actually demanded or required or advocated for that. They get up for it in this new season, you know, and if they don't want to do that, it's good to let folks go.

Yeah, that's true. That's another thing that, you know, people aren't realizing is happening in their company, especially if they're newer or they're growing super fast. It's like you could have completely changed into something they don't want to, you know, be working for any. Any longer. That's so huge. Okay, how you doing on. How you doing on time? Do you feel like we can.

I'm good.

Okay, cool. Okay, tell me.

Actually, I do have a three, unfortunately, I just hit.

Oh, no worries. So what we're gonna do is we've got three left. We're not gonna cover them here, but we're gonna say one is called double click. Just tell me what that even means.

Sure. Double click is to get in the forensics of really the details of what's happening on both sides of the equation.

Okay.

So.

So yeah, so after you get the elevation, you gotta get actually into it to understand what's happening. It takes some. It takes at least my view. There's a certain. There's a certain type of questions that will reveal what's really happening beyond the symptoms into the cause. That's what? Double click. By getting to the source issues, not the presenting issues.

So you guys are going to work on at this point. You're going to be to the source already and then sign your name. Is that like owning it?

Sign your name is when. This is what brave people do. This is what leaders do if they're leading. Well, is how am I contributing to the breakdown?

Oh, my gosh.

Okay. That's the best news. Because if I created it, I get to uncreate it.

Okay. Ride the elephant.

Yeah, riding the elephant is. Is where you actually. Because all this, the first four steps is a way to think about the conversation. Actually, before you get into the conversation. Riding the elephant is actually going and having the conversation. So it came out of just. It happened for me one day years ago now, but I was talking about. And I said to a client, it's not enough to name the elephant in the room. People always say, there's an elephant in the room. It's not enough to name it. You got to ride that MF or I think on the call, but you gotta ride it.

Yeah.

You know, like, and inside that conflict right now is where the treasure is, really. But even as a culture, what if we could build the type of conversation inside of our culture that, you know, nothing is off limits. We can talk about anything here. There's enough love and enough generosity here that nothing's off limits. And so we ride all the elephants around here. Like, anytime something's bothering us, we just talk about it. And we're not for drama's sake, not for, you know, just to go sit and talk and not be productive, but it's like, no, no, no. We just clear the space here.

Yes. It's, you know, your freedom, literally. Adrian, I want to make sure I get you off on here on time. But I have to say, you guys, you can go through his, like, entire. What is it? It's five days, right. 12 minutes a day. And you can completely be conflict free if you go and do this. So it's. It's going to be life changing for your business. Trust me. Go and do this for yourself. Go do this for your business. Because Chris and I see so many businesses crumble over the things that we talked about. I really believe if you can nail this and. And, you know, nail the relationships in your company, even in your personal life, that you are going to be successful for the rest of your life. And I think that these are the keys that really teach so much about it. Whether you have a company, whether you have one employee, three Employees. No employees, no business. This is still going to be something that's so huge, that's going to help your relationship, so I would just go and take it anyway. So that is@fricrated founder.com you can go sign up for free.

Scroll down to the bottom, try my coaching, and we'll send you that. And then we did shoot a course called mastering blueprint for mastering conflict. So if you want to go in the deep dive, that's there too. So after you go through the five days, it's all. It's all for you guys. And anyway, I know you have such a stellar community that listens to you and as a part of your tribe. So thank you for all the work that you do, Lori. And it's so impressive. I mean, first time I did this podcast, I was, like, just shocked. Just nailed out of nowhere by the generosity of your community.

Oh, my people are so epic. Like, thank you so much for that. And you guys, just like last time and every time on this podcast, I just. If you could tag Adrian. So can you give them your Instagram handle one more time?

Sure. My Instagram handle is weird. I'm trying to get it changed as we speak. It's my nickname growing up. A D E and then my last name. K O E H L E R A D E K O E H L E R. So love to chat with you.

Yes, absolutely. Go find him, go follow him. And here's what we always do in here. So tag Adrian, let him know what just cracked open for you. Because, guys, this just literally blew my mind, like, right down. To be soft with a person, be hard on the problem. Like, you said so many things that just impacted me in such a big way. So tag Adrian, tag myself. Let us know your biggest takeaway, because you guys know that I always love to reshare your stories and we love to see who we're actually talking to. And Adrian, I know that you are, like, completely love connecting with people on Instagram as well. So make sure you tag him, go find him, go follow him, and go take that course if you're thinking about. About being serious with business. So you guys, until next time, earn your happy.

Bye, everyone.

Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to share this episode with someone you think would love it, that would be absolutely amazing and we would be forever grateful. Also, please leave us a review if you feel so moved by going to itunes and leaving us an honest thought, an honest comment. Tell us what you think. Tell us what you want to hear. More of it would really help us out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people. Until then, don't forget to earn your happy. Thanks again guys. Bye bye.

It.