652. Real Talk, Family, and Business - with Heather Dubrow

When I realized I didn't care what anyone else thought, that was like a big aha moment for me. And I just said I'm just gonna do what I like and I don't care if anyone likes it or not.

Welcome to the earn your happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of The Bliss Project, 3 Time Fitness World champion, fitness expert and cover model, turned self love junkie, lifestyle entrepreneur and author. Each week I'll bring you a guest or a that will help you bust through your fears, connect to your soul and get focused and clear so you can elevate your life, business and relationships. We don't wait until we're ready for someone to tell us we're good enough. We take what we want and we anoint ourselves. Get ready to earn, own, and unapologetically rock your happiness every single day. Are you with me?

Here we go, foreign. Welcome back to the show.

This next woman is somebody I am so excited came into my life. Sometimes you get those women that just walk into your world and completely change it.

And I can tell you that Heather.

Dubrow is one of those women. Not only is she just somebody who I'm obsessed with getting to have conversations with because I love how her brain works, but she also is an investor in Light Pink, which is just so cool when you connect with women that you share the same vision. Heather Dubrow is an actress, an author, a singer, an entrepreneur, mom and wife. She's a veteran of scripted television and you may also recognize her from her five seasons as the champagne drinking brunette in a sea of blondes on the Real Housewives of Orange County. She's also an accomplished host with credits ranging from newsrooms to talk shows. Heather's top rated podcast, Heather Dubrow's World has amassed a huge following with over 100.5 million downloads. You guys, I am in the podcast world is. And that is absolutely fricking nuts. So she must be having epic conversations over there. And I can tell you right now.

I've listened to some of her podcasts.

And the women on there will blow your mind.

Go check it out if you love this show.

I feel like it has a very similar vibe. Heather's also well known internationally for her sense of design and fashion, as evidenced by her YouTube channel Heather's Closet, which has millions of downloads. She's married to the world renowned plastic surgeon Dr. Terry Dubrow, star of E's.

Hit TV series Botched.

I know you guys have probably watched that at least one or two times. Together the Dubrows have authored three books including Doctor and Mrs. Guinea Pig present the only guide that you'll ever need to be the best anti aging treatments, the Dubrow Diet, and their latest book, the Dubrow Keto Fusion Diet. You guys, she is an entrepreneur, she is an author, she is an amazing actress, and I can't wait for you to listen in on this conversation because she's just so down to earth.

I'm obsessed with her.

Let's get started.

Heather, I'm so excited to have you on the show.

Hi. Thanks for having me.

This is so much fun because, you guys, I just got to be on her show, so I feel like this is like a continuation of a conversation. And I had so much fun talking to you that I'm kind of like, okay, I'm craving another conversation. So here we are. This is amazing.

Don't you love that? It's one of the things that, honestly, I love about podcasting, which, you know, my show, I've been doing it for five years, and it's kind of changed over the years. But what I found was not just with the podcast, but through the pandemic, this zoom thing, which I really thought would be strangely filtering, I find actually that it's somehow more connecting. Cause it feels like, you know, when you listen to a podcast, it's very intimate. It still feels intimate, but we can see each other as opposed to maybe because, you know, the energy is different than sitting across from each other. I don't know, I just. But I love it. And when I spoke to you a week or two ago, whenever it was, I thought, oh, my God, I love this girl and we need to be friends. Friends. And I was talking to Terri last night, and I go, you know what's so funny? I go, lori, Melissa Rivers, Ali Webb, I go, there's all these girls that I feel like I've become acquainted with over the last few months that I love. And one of the things I love the best is there's no drama. It's just like everyone that I've met, and you included, smart, successful, not competitive, non jealous, but promoting and helping other women and creating cool communities. I love it.

Oh, my God. I feel the same way. And I feel like once you once, it's kind of in your, like, vortex that that's what you want and that's what you're looking for. It's just you find one and it's kind of like epic women. No, epic women. And it's staying open to that. Right? Like, just kind of in asking, like, I've definitely had those Moments where, you know, I find a couple amazing women, and I'm like, hey, who else do you know? Or who else do you hang around? Or you kind of get into that, like, atmosphere of it. And it's also, like, what you're not willing to tolerate anymore, right? Like, I definitely went through a point in my life where I'm like, okay, I'm actually going to, like, you know, whether I had FOMO before on this group or that group, I'm like, not. It's not worth it. Because I actually think that when you just decide to, like, stop that, whether it's something dramatic or maybe it's, like, just not an energetic fit for you, I've definitely groups where I thought that I needed to get in this group, maybe for business or for whatever that looks like, right? Like, whatever you thought that you needed. It's kind of like once I kind of cut that out of my desire of thinking that I needed that or wanted that, even though I knew it wasn't aligned, like, I didn't feel like myself around those people, I always kind of left feeling a bit empty or whatever that looked like. When I stopped trying to fit in, I was like, huh, this whole other world opened up. What do you think that is, Heather? What was that for you that you just decided, like, you know, like, these are the type of people that I want. And how did that all switch for you?

I'm still figuring it out, man. I'm 51. I'm still figuring out. But what you just said is just so true. And it. And it doesn't have to. And by the way, those people you're sitting with, they might be perfectly fine people, because I know absolutely, like, a lot of us talk about getting toxic people out of your life. I think we're all clear that toxicity is bad, bad. And that you don't want to be around people that don't root for you and all that kind of stuff. But I think what we don't realize sometimes is that even people who are cool and fun and interesting and smart still might not be right for you. And that's okay. Because if you walk away to your point, feeling empty, jealous, even if there's no reason to be, weird, uncomfortable, those are not good emotions, any of that. And whether it's them putting something on you, you putting something on you, it is finding those groups. And what I have found in recent times, especially because we're still allowed to go out from time to time here in Orange county, is that if I'm sitting somewhere and this is what I find is that everywhere I sit now, I never look around, ever. I remember, even two, three years ago being out at a restaurant and, like, who's sitting over there? Or you bump into someone on the way in and you go, ooh, that's cool. I wish I was sitting at that table. Or, oh, that's so cool. We should get to, like, maybe part of it's social and part of it's, you know, networking and all of that. So there's really nothing wrong with feeling like that. I don't mean, like, ooh, I wish I was friends with them. I just mean I would still be, like, you know, because I'm ambitious and want to go to those next levels and all of that. But I find that wherever I am, I'm so much more present than I've ever been. I don't care if my back is to the room. I mean, I don't like my back to them just because I like sitting with my back against the wall. But not because of any other reason than that. A little Al Capone kind of thing. Not because. But I don't need to see who else is there. Whoever I'm with and is in front of me, to me, is the most important person. And if I don't want to talk to that person, I shouldn't be at the table. This is my thing about dinner parties. If you're throwing a party, whether it's your birthday party, a dinner party, a holiday party, whatever it is, and you're making your guest list, I always say if you were making the table, you have to make sure every single person coming is someone you'd want to sit next to. Oh, that is good, because if there's someone on your list that you want there, but you wouldn't want them next to you, why are you inviting them? I don't get that. They shouldn't be at your table. Every single person should be the person to sit next to.

Mm. Yeah. And the funny thing is, is you'll invite that person that you wouldn't want to sit next to, and you'll end up sitting next to them.

Just like the universal law. Well, that's why I always do place cards. Let's be honest. There is no accidental seating in my world, Lori. None. Yay. And that's.

So that's a really interesting topic in and of itself is. I feel like I have become that person who realized that life is curatable. Like, can curate every experience in a way that literally creates a world that you enjoy living in.

I Love that. Like what?

Like, I was just thinking.

Exactly.

With even having a dinner party at your house. Like, I used to always be like, man, I wish that we would have, like, deeper conversations. Like, I wish that we could, like, get into the meat right away. And then I thought, well, why can't I curate that conversation? Like, what would I do if I wanted that curated? Well, I'd probably. Like, as weird as people may think it is, I've had dinner parties where I put questions in a bowl. I love that. And I'll go around and ask these, like, way deeper questions, because if I'm sick of something and I'm complaining about it, that means I'm, like, either not doing something about it or I'm tolerating something. So for me, I'm like, all right, if I want this experience at my house where people connect deeply, like, deeper, quicker, then why don't I just take charge? Even though every time, Heather, I feel weird when I do it, it's like, oh, God, I'm gonna be that girl right now. But then I'm so happy that I did, because it, like, spurs a whole other level of conversation. And, like, these really actually things that can really change your life when you do that.

I agree. But I think especially when it's a dinner party and I like smaller. So I did it at our table. I did a square dining table in this house, so it's four couples. But if I change out the chairs, and I do, like, Chervari chairs, I can do six couples. I can fit 12 of them. But it's intimate and close. But my whole thing is you have to know your audience.

That's true. That is true. Because I don't know if I do that with everyone, right?

So I am obsessed with those kinds of things. And I do that with my kids. And even though it drives them insane and especially over lockdown, when we were all together a lot, I would pull up question cards and find different kinds of topics off the Internet to sort of spur those conversations. I love stuff like that, but sometimes it isn't the right crowd for that.

Right.

Sometimes the crowd, and I'm totally okay with this, too, is to have cocktail party conversation and keep it light and fun and breezy, because I feel like sometimes that's enough. Just to have beautiful tablescape and lovely champagne and feel like you look pretty and put on nice music. And what I always do, honestly, with a dinner party is I always have a photographer come for the first 30 minutes. I take a group picture. I like a picture of My tablescapes. Cause I like to plan. I love the aesthetics of the whole thing. And then everyone can have a picture with their significant other and then they're gone and the phones go away.

Oh, that's so smart. That's really smart. You're like, okay, now we're good. So we don't have to be doing our social media anymore. Now we can drop in.

I don't want to sit there and, you know, I've had to sort of weed out sometimes. Some friends that, you know, tend to do this a lot. But I don't want to take 7,000 photos in every corner of the thing, from every angle at every moment of the evening. I just don't want to do that. Let's take the photo, let's have a pretty picture, everyone's fresh. And then put them away and let's just have fun. We're not on tv, no one's watching us. Let's dance, let's sing, let's, you know, be silly. I mean, we had. I had a dinner party once, which we ended up tap dancing. Four of us.

Oh my God, I would love that.

It was crazy and it was just funny. We got into a conversation about backgrounds and tap and whatever. And that's when the fun happens, when you can sort of, you know, unplug like that.

Did you tap?

Did you tap?

Yes.

Well, you know, I started in musical theater, so I kind of did a. I'm not gonna pretend to be any kind of fabulous dancer. I was more of a singer, actress, but I can dance and I did take tap.

Oh my God. So you have done. It's funny, I was like looking through all of the different things that you have done in your past. You've kind done it all. Is that out of an interest? Like, what did that look like for you? Was it things that you. Have you always been someone who's just kind of followed your curiosities or followed your heart and you're like, whatever, it doesn't matter. I don't mind failing. Or did that come over time?

No, I wish I was that person. I think, think I'm that person now. I. You know, they say, what would you tell your younger self? I mean, I wish I could. I wish I could have been that person then. I was, you know, like everyone when you're super young. Not everyone, but I had a terrible anxiety disorder. Still do. Very insecure. And I didn't have like a warm, fuzzy family. I had very cold night, very nice parents. But like 1950s, no one talked about anything. And, you know, and one sister, you know, it was just very. It wasn't warm and fuzzy and so kind of had to deal with those things my own and keep them inside. But I was always very driven and I always. So I was always singing and always, I was always into musical theater. I thought I was gonna do Broadway. That was just. I was very clear. I auditioned for Syracuse University. I got into a very exclusive program there. They only took 15 girls and 15 guys every year. And I did that. And then through a series of hooks and crooks, I ended up in la. Cause I ended up doing this little TV show thing and they flew me out here. So I ended up doing all these different things. I was the lead singer for a 14 piece big band. That's what I did instead of WA. You know, that was my bread and butter. And you know, then I got better acting gigs and I was a scripted actress and I did tv. I did, you know, I was a series regular on five series. I did movies, I did movies of the week, all that. Met my husband, had seven, four kids in seven years and then ended up on reality tv. And then. But I think it was, if I could answer that question correctly, I would say it was in the middle of Housewives that I was able to understand that the landscape of television had changed and that the world was changing and that social media had changed everything. Because when I started, that just didn't exist. And so I think that's when I started kind of growing with the times. And my husband is so good at playing the cards that are in front of him. And that was never my thing, but I learned to do that.

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What do you think is that? Well, first I want to go back to the with your family talking about how they never talked about anything. I can totally relate to that and I want to know how that affected you. Like you feeling like, you know, how did you cope when you wanted to talk about something or were there things in your life that you were like, am I normal? Is this normal? Like, who do I reach out to? How did you kind of cope then? If you had a family that you never could bounce ideas off of or say how you felt or how did that affect you back then and now?

Funny, no one ever asked me that before. I wish that I Had had, like, a therapist at the time, but I didn't really know from that. Yeah, you know, in high school. It was mostly high school. Yeah, it was very difficult. I mean, I always had the anxiety. But in high school, things sort of came to a head. I had a bunch of bad experiences, and, you know, I smoked a lot of pot in high school. I wasn't particularly interested in grades. I never really thought I was smart, and I knew I was gonna be a performer, so I didn't really care. Partied with my friends, that kind of thing. I relied on friends a lot, which for. Part of your question is why? Friends have always been important to me. Too important in some cases. And I've been very disappointed through my life with friends because I place too much importance sometimes on them because it's like a substitute family in some regards. I went through. I tried on a lot of hats. You know, I went through a lot of different phases through high school, through college, through moving out to Los Angeles. It tried on a lot of different hats until I started figuring out who I was. And, you know, we don't know who we are in our 20s and I think 30s anyway, and that's fine. But what was great was, I think that as I got older and became more confident, because as we know, it's really all about that confidence. As I started saying, wait a minute, I don't need your opinion on things, and I can trust my judgment and I can trust my own opinion. And maybe I didn't respect myself enough or trust myself enough, and my opinions are good, and I am smart, and I value myself. Like, all of those lessons I just really had to learn on my own. And I will also tell you, and this is such a. It's funny to me, because people will, a lot of times ask me, like, who the biggest female. Who the influence was in my life. But I will tell you, my biggest mentor truly has been Terry. Yeah. Wow. He truly. And I don't mean this in, like, a creepy way, because I love my husband and I'm attracted to him, obviously, and we've been together 24 years, but he also helped raise me. And I feel like I did the same for him, too. But for me, he really pointed out things in me that I never saw and couldn't see. And, you know, I met him when I was 27, and so it was, like, at a crucial time where I was, like, figuring myself out. And it's been quite a journey.

Oh, my God. So I have been on so many interviews where I say, chris, My husband is literally my biggest mentor. Like, he kind of did that same exact thing for me.

Isn't that amazing?

I have goosebumps right now because it's like, you know, I met him when I was 21, kind of like, you know, just younger, very influential. And I think that there were things so about him that he was able to pull out of me. And also, it wasn't just all about, like, you know, you're amazing, you're this, you're that. He also was so willing to give me tough love. So I'm wondering if, for you, if Terry was able, like, how that relationship was with, like, maybe helping you see your blind spots, or do you guys feel like you. You know, does that cause more, like, fights, or does it, like, how. Tell me about that particular, like, relationship and how that works for not only, you know, seeing great things in you, but, you know, were there ever points where he was just kind of like, did you feel like you ever get, like, poked or.

Oh, yeah, it's been a shit show. You know, it's 24 years. I mean, that's what. That's what relationships are. And, you know, I get worried when I hear younger kids and young couples talking about the perf of marriage and everything. You know, there's tough days, months, weeks, years. There's for sure, years, years, years, honestly. And it's how you get through them. So I'll tell you with me, for him, and maybe it's because I'm a mom, and maybe I got better at this after I became a mother, but I know how to handle Terri. I really understand who he is as a person and always have understood who he is as a person and what he needs. I know when he needs for me to shut up and just listen. I know when he needs, you know, help or advice from me, and I know when he needs, like, the man up speech versus the just hugging and coddling speech, because we all need kind of a little bit of the. All of that. Terry, you know, he was raised. His parents were married, five collectively. There was a lot of broken homes. And, like, he didn't get along with his real brother. He barely saw his half brother. He had three, you know, stepbrothers he didn't get along with. He didn't really have a great foundation for relationships.

Yeah.

So as smart as he is and intellectual as he is, he certainly. And as a wonderful bedside manner as the man has for his patients, that didn't always translate into our relationship. So I'll say that, you know, it's Been like, a really big learning process. But there were certainly times where he was like, you sound small. You sound insecure. You sound, you know, like, totally gave it to me. And maybe not in the moment where I was prepared to hear it or with the delivery system that maybe worked for me at that particular time. But again, I think that's what's really important about relationships and is figuring out who the other person is and how they need to hear it and when they need to hear it. It's kind of like this. And I know all women can relate to this. If you get dressed and you're in the car on the way to the event and you say, how do I look? Guess what, people? The answer's always perfect. You look amazing. My gosh, I've never seen you look better. If you're in your closet and there's 30 minutes before you have to leave the house, and you're like, what do you think? And you really don't think it looks good, you can tell me then don't tell me in the car when there's nothing for me to do at. And I remember we were going. This is. Oh, my God, I can't believe. I just remember. We were on our way to the People's Choice Awards. I was on the show Star Gravy Mad. Yeah, we were nominated. It was a big deal. And I had this, like, shorter, like, kind of 90s sitcom hair. And the guy that did my hair had never done it before. And it was, like, crazy and curled and weird and whatever. But I was wearing this beautiful Valentino dress. And it had, like, undergarment issues. And I was nervous, and there was this huge red carpet and whatever. And Terri basically told me in the limo on the way there how bad my hair looked and wanted me to fix it in the limo. And you understand it's not like, long hair that you can put up or what. It was so bad. It was such a bad moment. And I'll show you the pictures. I mean, he was right. But that's not the point. You don't say it then. So, anyway, so I think, like, the lesson I'm trying to say that I've learned and what we've learned over the years is not only like, before, you always have to know your audience, and you have to know what the right timing is, which is sometimes really hard for me, too. Cause if I'm angry about something, I really want to talk about it. Same. And he really doesn't want to talk about it. He really wants to walk away. But Again, as you get older, like, you know, I don't like when people say, is it better to be right or have peace? I don't like that because sometimes I do want to be right and fuck off. But I do believe in thinking, is this really going to be important a month from now or a year from now? Do I really care? Is this really important? The answer might be yes, but if the answer is no, then honestly let it go.

Oh, my God. So, yeah. Would you rather be right or have peace? I kind of go with the pick your battles instead, because that's. I'm always like, all right, what's going to be the outcome? What does this really mean to me? Is this something I could.

Because there.

There are totally moments, like, I think people look at probably, you know, you and Terry or like, Chris and I, and they're like, oh, that marriage looks so great. They get along so great. I'm like, there are moments where my. Like, I want to strangle him. Like, still a lot, actually, but I get over them quickly. Like, I'm just like, nope. You know what? I also understand you have to take into consideration the context, right? Like, especially if you guys are together a lot. Or maybe he works from home sometimes. So Chris and I also work from home together. It's kind of like, all right, well, I did talk to him or throw that at him, like, when he had five minutes in between appointments. So now I can start really looking at, like, oh, okay, I got that response. Like, I keep feeling like I'm not important because I'm talking to him in the middle of his work day. So if I want to judge whether I'm important or not, how would I do it when he's done with this moment, you know?

But, you know, what's hard about that? And totally what you're talking about is then there's never a right moment. Sometimes that's true when you're like, we've gone through periods of time where it's like, I'm waiting for the moment because I can't talk before he leaves for work in the morning because it's early and he's got a full day, and I don't want to do that. Can't talk while he's there about something serious or, you know, or to vent or what, you know, like that or an argument or whatever in the middle of the day because I don't want to screw up his day. And he's. He's seeing patients or whatever he's doing. And then, you know, the moment someone gets home, they need to relax for five minutes and chill out. And then you don't want to ruin the evening. I mean, and then it just never gets discussed and then he's over it.

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So I've come to realize over the last few years that what I do is if it's still something that's bothering me, especially after a day or two and his thing is to just blow it off because he doesn't care and it wasn't important. But I really like need to vent it out or I'm thinking about it. I'll say to him, I know you're over this. I really just need to talk about it. I don't want to argue about it. I just like to vent it out and that will allow me to just move forward. I just, just need to say this out loud. And he was. And then he'll go, okay, then he'll let me do it and then we'll move on.

So you're a verbal. Like you need to talk through every. Yeah.

Although sometimes we text. Do you guys ever Do. Do you guys ever have a. Like, not an argument, but, like, a disagreement over text? Because sometimes that can be good together.

Too much for text.

Oh, we'll do it from the next room.

Yeah.

Oh, that's great. You know what?

I might try that on the next one. Do you use emojis in these texts?

No, no. No emojis. But this is what you have to be careful of. So sometimes I think the texting thing is good because it kind of removes the tone, right?

Yeah.

And the energy from it. But sometimes you can read into the tone of a text, so you kind of. If you're going to do it that way, you have to really take it. Like, to take the text at face value and not read into it, you have to be very. Just clinical about it.

You know what? You just reminded me we've done more, like, apologizing over text. So sometimes we'll, like, be talking and, you know, it'll be heated, and he'll send a text to me from another room. Or maybe he went out and ran an errand, and he's like, hey, I'm really sorry. You know, I said it that way. I'm super busy, and I completely just didn't even realize that I was being a total jerk. And so we do a lot of, like, many apologies, and then it's done. Like, then we don't talk about it when we see each other next. Or it's just like, thank you so much for. For me, it's like, thank you so much for acknowledging. And that's it. That's what I say now. So it's just like.

Exactly. And yes.

And so.

Okay, so we've done the same thing. And honestly, on the let it go moment, if we get into, like, a dumbass fight for two seconds. Cause we don't fight about anything real, to be honest with you. It's like someone's cranky. Like, it happened the other day. I walked in the room and I wrote, I love you. I'm sorry. That was just stupid. Let's just move on. Whatever. So I've been dealing with my mother. I was pardoned to tell you, and I needed to vent it out. Now anyone knows, especially females, that you never, like, tell your mom that you've broken up with your boyfriend until you're sure you're not getting back together with them, Right? Because as soon as you tell them you've broken up, now they're gonna tell you everything they hate about him and da, da, da. And then you can never. And, like. And you don't wanna hear it. You could say whatever you want, but you don't want them talking about them. Right?

Right.

So when I've been venting, every time I vent about my mother, he starts adding to the pile. And he's not wrong, but I keep going, going, shut up. Stop it. And this morning he got up very early. It was like 5am so we've been kind of like, I've been a little irritated with him for the last couple of days intermittently because of his response to my venting over this. This morning he was up early and I just not sleeping well. So I happened to be up, it was 4:45 this morning. And I go, hi. I go, no, no, we're talking. And I said something about my mother and what was going on? And he goes, I gotta go. And he leans over, he goes, I'm really sorry that you're having to deal with this. I love you. And he kissed me and he left. And I thought, good job. That is exactly what I needed to hear. That was so sweet. He just acknowledged my feelings and got out of there and said nothing inappropriate. It was awesome.

Oh my God. It's those moments where you're just like all of these years together.

So good.

This is, this is so great. It's like such a sweet spot when they, when they just. It's just exactly what you needed. Hey. Hey.

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Okay, so I don't want to dig too deep into your mother if that's not something you want to talk about. But is this a reoccurring, Is it a reoccurring conversation, the thing that you're dealing with? Well, the reoccurring personality trait.

There's a lot to unpack there. I mean, that could be 12 other shows. But what I'm dealing with right now, what I think is interesting to talk about is this whole thing about parents who are aging and how you handle it. And so my dad died a few years ago, and when he passed away, I went back to New York and I helped him and got him doctors. They were very non compliant. That's a whole nother thing. But, but so for the last three years, I've been giving my mom kind of a give, you know, and letting her handle things her way, trying to help and being thwarted and all this. But everything's kind of come to a head. And so just what I'm dealing with right now is her. She's got, you know, 14 containers of storage and it's a fortune. And you know, it's been in there for five years and you're just not supposed to store things for this long. It's not a temperature controlled facility. It's like, I mean, you can imagine the state of things, but you know, she overvalues her things and she hoards everything and it's just like trying to deal with it across the country. And I put together a really great team and I'm doing my best and I'm trying to stay peripheral so that I don't argue with her. But it really is a difficult thing. And I can see from her point of view how hard it must be to be. You know, she's 78. She's very, by the way, healthy, young, very pretty. She has a very long life to live. She wants her things. She wants, whatever.

Yep.

But I can understand that thinking about the rest of your life and how you're gonna manage it is, you know, upsetting and concerning. But she does, she shouldn't have to be that way. Cause things should be fine. But she's just being very difficult and as her child to try to deal with it, it's just a lot. And it just brings up so many conversations between me and Terri about like our parents and, you know, the ones we've lost already, the ones we still have and then our kids and how are we managing our lives and their lives so they will never have to have these Conversations and set them up correctly. And I'm not talking about leaving money. That's not what I mean. I'm not talking about money because, look. And I said this to my parents. Spend it all.

It's your money.

You don't have to leave us a dime. I don't care whether we had money or not. That's not your obligation. Your obligation, I feel like, as a parent, is to raise healthy, happy, functioning humans and set them off in the right direction. And then that's their responsibility to find their passion in life and make something of themselves. And if you can help them out, fabulous. But it's not your obligation to leave them money. Agreed. But it's also not a cool thing to leave your kids with a shit show. Mm.

Yeah.

And that's the situation I'm finding myself in.

So is it that you'll be left with that later, or you're feeling right now that there's a lot to take care of? There's a lot to take.

Yeah, there's a lot to take care of right now, and there's been a lot to take care of right now. And it's just been like, years, even before my father died, of arguing with them and trying to get them to make a plan and organize and just, like, never did it. And so you don't have power of turning over people. You can't force them. But then at the end of the day, you're the one left holding the bag. And. And it's not just financially tolling. It's physically and emotionally exhausting. And it's just been so much to deal with. And it's just. And I said to my mother, I go, I don't want to fight with you for the rest of your life. Why don't we just get to a spot where this is all handled and you're happy? Cause you can be happy if you take these following steps. You're good, and then you'll be fine. By the way, she would die if she heard this conversation. This is why I could talk about it on your show and not mine. Exactly.

I was like, well, we'll try to.

Hide this from her.

We'll alert her. Please. It's very private. No one should know anything. But I'm just saying, I don't think I'm giving away too many details, but I'm just saying, I just don't wanna fight with her. But she's also someone. And I don't know if you found this with older relatives that wanna rehash the past.

Yes, So I have some questions for you.

Yeah.

So I'm feeling like I'm having this in my life in different family members right now who are. We're kind of in this position. We're having a lot this year of that moment when you realize, wow, we are going to have a lot to take care of. You know, Chris's dad just passed this last June, so it's been kind of. Thank you. It's been that just. Is that, you know, the moment where you're like, wow, now there's a lot to take care of because it was so unexpected. He was a super young 72. The man would bike ride 20 miles a day, worked on the house. Like we just. So unexpected, right? Like we just did not see this coming. And I'm wondering just with it makes me think about, you know, my parents, his mom, all of the things did that generation. And I know this is, you know, obviously generalizing, but. But I can find it and see it sometimes even in my mom. Did they not learn how to make themselves happy? And do they rely on us for happiness or their children? Do you feel that way? It's such a reliance or is that just me that I'm feeling that way?

By the way, if it were that I would actually be happy because I feel, I mean, from my point of view, what I've seen from my world, it's all been very selfish fish. And so I know a lot of. I will tell you this. I know a lot of older people got caught financially in 0809 and, you know, made decisions that weren't maybe the best financial decisions. Things happen to people. And, you know, when things happen, you help them and you take care of them. And like you're saying unexpected things happen and everyone's, you know, you circle the wagons and you take care of things. But what I've noticed with my experiences and some experiences of my friends and their families is that it's not that it's more of like this. It's so weird to me, it's almost like a childish, entitled behavior that I don't understand. I really honestly don't. Some of it may be that they think, well, we took care of, of our parents, so they should take care of us. I don't feel that way. I feel like I'm taking care of myself and I'm, you're my kid, I'll take care of you. And then you take care of you and you take care of your family. It's your turn.

Yeah. So is that kind of what you're the pattern that you want to break? Because I know like every single. I feel like a lot with just where we're at in the world right now. I feel like a lot of people who are kind of like waking up to want to be better, right? Better. Better for themselves, better for their families, like wanting to break these generational patterns. What are some generational patterns that you want to break? Ending with you?

Absolutely. Communication in every sense of the word. Like I said, I had a very non. Like a very. Not warm and fuzzy. And now that you know me a little bit, you could see I'll talk about anything. I'm just like, love me, love me, let's talk about it. Do I suck at that? Okay, how can I fix it? I want to always try to be better. And with my children, I have four children that are very, very different and very different personalities, different sexual identities, different like all just very different. And you know, you can't parent them all the same way, but you are the same person. But my whole pattern breaking is communication. I have a very good relationship with all of my children. We talk about everything. I'm not the. Their friend, meaning we're friends, but I'm their parent, which has always been important. But they can tell me anything. And they have told me so much. And you know what's really cool? I don't know what your relationship. Because you've, you've shared with me about your upbringing and the church and all that. So I don't know what that dynamic was like with a one on one with your parents. But with me, like, I didn't have like a one on one relationship with my parents.

No, me either.

Like when my sister went to college and my dad was traveling, my mom and I would like have dinner together, I guess if I wasn't at play rehearsal. But I never, I always felt awkward. I can have dinner. My twins just turned 17 and my son Nick, I have dinner with him alone. And we're all the time. We'll go places, we'll do things, we'll sit and have dinner. It is so not awkward. And to some people listening, they may go. So I didn't grow up like that.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's. It's so funny. I think I just saw like you were. I watched some of your stories recently and that literally stood out to me. I was like, they're hanging out.

Oh, I was not shopping.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you were shopping. And I was like, they're, they're hanging out. And it actually appears as though he is having fun. I was like, that is a relationship that I want. Because I did not have that. It was very. Like, I would avoid that because it felt weird to me because they wouldn't know what to talk to me about and I wouldn't know what to talk to them about because we had no dialogue. There was no dialogue besides, like, what's for dinner? And what are you doing? Where are you going? And then I guess, you know, I feel like my mom made an attempt to, like, ask about my life, but it felt more like prodding. Like, instead of like actual interest, it felt more like. And maybe because of the religious background or maybe because I never gave her, we never had that dialogue. Maybe it just felt like, where's this coming from? Why do you want to know that? I don't know. It's just how you keep that open. Like, how do you think that you started that with your kids? Like, having it feel natural?

It's a good question. I think partially it's just because that's who I am as a person. It's odd. I'll talk to my aunt and be like, don't you think it's weird I came out of this family like my nuclear family? And she's like, y do. But I think that just from the beginning, I just embraced the fact that, number one, I knew that I had never even held a baby before. I had no idea what the heck I was doing. And I was going to figure it out as I went along, but I was always going to have open communication and do the best I could. That doesn't mean I've done everything perfectly but do the best I could. And I actually, I will tell them and my kids will tell you this, especially with the twins because they're the oldest. It was like six months ago, so they were still 16. And Max, my daughter was saying, why does he get to this? And I get to that, Da, da. And I go, I don't know. I go, I've never had a 16 year old before. I'm figuring this out for the first time. Just like you're figuring out what it's like to be a 16 year old. I got to think about that. I don't know the answer. And I think, I think being honest with them and showing them that you're not omnipotent and that you're not omniscient and that you have flaws and that you can apologize when you're wrong, I mean, all of those things lend itself to having human relationships with your kids.

And listening so how you're willing to show up.

Yeah. And listening.

That's huge because. And listening, like being kind of like how we both love when we're acknowledged by our husbands. Like them feeling acknowledged. Cause I could see how it might be easy to disregard. I'm not a parent yet, but I could see how it would feel easy to kind of disregard their opinion if I believed something else to maybe just be like, no, that's not how we want it.

Right. And I think you and I both, probably because of the backgrounds, it was like there was a lot of, of talking at us, their opinions of the world, which were being given as what's right and wrong as opposed to bringing up conversational topics and different points of view so kids can think. I mean, there's a really big difference there. And that might be a generational thing, but I think our generation is so much better and more self actualized at that and listening and you know, because I'm curious how they think and what they're getting from social media and their friends and life. I learn a lot from them.

Yeah. You know, I think looking back on like cues I picked up on is that other perspectives from friends, you know, their friends or outside people, like they weren't welcome. So it was kind of like perspectives weren't welcome. So if I felt different, I remember thinking like, oh, I can't share it this. So I think that can make you feel shut down a lot. Which is why now I have a podcast and you have a podcast is I'm like, hey, no one shut me down. Tell me all the perspectives. Tell me. And that's. I'm so curious. Right. Because I don't want to have one perspective. And sometimes when I notice I'm really going into one perspective, like I think right now in history it's really easy to like, you know, find a perspective or feel very passionately. But I always want to stay. I want to know why other people feel a certain way. Like what background did you come from that makes you think this way? Or why do you think this is so important when I think this is like completely opposite. So, you know, I think that that gives us just power as human beings. It gives us. And it makes us less miserable because I think it's actually quite miserable to be stuck in a perspective because then you just go around in your life thinking everyone else is wrong or different or separate, you know, a hundred percent.

But it's hard if you have anyone's ever had anyone in their life that's narcissistic or oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's a lot to grow up like that and, you know, and to come out mildly sane. So I think, you know, it's like anything else. It's how you come out of situations. You either go one way or you go the other way. But it's funny how you and I both, even though we have different backgrounds, sort of manifest itself in the talking, but also the listening. And like I said, the listening is so important because. Because, like you, when I do my show and I have guests on, I feel like if I walk away with one pearl, just one pearl, that I go, huh? Or even if that person's energy just sort of lifted me, like, it was funny. I was telling you right before we started. So I recorded earlier with Louise Rowe. Do you know who she is? She's a designer. Go look her up. She's fabulous. Love her. She's British, and she was a reporter for a long time and. And worked for. She's very cool. And she's got this new home line. You'll like her. She's very cool.

Okay.

Anyway, so I was talking to her, and I was, like, so happy when it was over, Meaning I just felt so uplifted. And then I was dealing with my mother, and literally, the moment I saw your face pop up on my screen for this call, I was so happy again. So I just feel like if you get that moment, that pearl, that energy from that person, that's what it's about for me.

Oh, man, I. I couldn't agree more. It's so funny. I'll be having a bad day, and I'll go up in the room and, like, come floating down the stairs. And Chris is like, okay, you had a great podcast. He's like, I'm so grateful for those podcasts. Like, I am so grateful, too, because they. It's human connection and interaction. And like you said, there's. There's these moments where someone will say something like, already, Heather, I've taken so much just from, like, the perspective of how you with. With your children, how you want to, like, connect and keep that conversation open with, you know, how you're just. The communication style. And I think communication truly changes everything in every single relationship. But it's human connection and listening, like you said, that just. It will rock your world. And, like, listening to people sometimes in your, like, everyday life or in the everyday world, when we actually used to, like, go around and be in Starbucks lines and things like that, that sometimes those are the moments where you'll just get these random nuggets from people that you're like, wow. Like, I really believe that all of the things that we need are being delivered through people. If we would just kind of actually give ourselves the time to acknowledge humans, because they're not obstacles. They're actually there to, like, make us grow.

It's funny, but, you know what that makes me think of is that, you know, we've become so cyber, right? And so we've all been talking for so long about how everyone's on their devices and there's very little person to person interaction anymore.

And then.

And this whole lockdown, and I think everyone thought there would have to be World War 3 and all technology would have to go away for people to start communicating again. But I just weirdly feel like this pandemic is doing that and bringing. Weirdly bringing people back together in an interesting, connected way.

I've actually. I feel that way, too. I feel like I've connected deeper with more people through this than I had, like, for the past two years. And I don't know if that's because I have more time and I'm more selective maybe with the people that I'm actually wanting to reach out to, maybe. And some of those people who I wanted to connect with before, they're, like, now more accessible because I guess they're more at home and they're a little.

Bit more dropped in.

Because so many of the women that I either had connected with briefly, like, you know, they were so busy, or they're flying to all these appointments, or they are always doing something, and it's kind of like, well, I'm gonna let. I'm gonna leave that. That be because I'm not going to try to, you know, like, add one more thing to their plate where I've found, like, people are really willing to drop in a little bit more. So I.

We've gotten some time back.

We've definitely gotten some time back. So what is something right now, Heather, that is, like, what are you loving to talk about? Like, what lights you up? Like, what is in your sphere right now that you're just like. I could talk about that for hours. I know there's a lot.

Yeah, there is. Aside from, like, you know, I love my family and. And talk about my kids forever. And Terri, I would say two things. Okay. One, we're building a house in Idaho.

Oh, fun. Amazing.

We went. I had never been to Idaho.

Okay.

I hear things.

Yep. My girlfriend canceled dinner on us in July. June. June. When we were having outdoor eating. And I said, why? She goes we're going to Idaho. I'm like, why Idaho? That's random. And anyway, they had bought a lot. He's a builder. And the next time they went, I went, I fell in love. I bought a lot. And we're building this house and I am like looking at my latest little sketch right here. And we're gonna break ground in a couple weeks and so exciting. I love being creative. I love design. And it's funny, cause that's one of those things when we were talking before about like, like what your childhood does to you and your parents. Like, my mother was an interior designer and an artist and all. She's very, very talented. But I never thought I was good at that. Or I always like double checked my taste or whatever. And then when I realized I didn't care what anyone else thought, that was like a big aha moment for me. And I just said, I'm just gonna do what I like and I don't care if anyone likes it or not. And then people actually liked it, which is great. But as long as I like it, that's all I care about. But we've never actually lived in a house longer than three years. I mean, my twins are 17. I think they lived in 12 houses. Wow. So I thought for sure that we would be moving on. And Terry said he's never leaving this house. So when the Idaho thing came up and it was in the middle of, you know, some of my projects that I was working on got postponed or shut down or canceled in the middle of all this, as many people's projects did. And I was kind of like that creative outlet. Like it just started pouring into this thing and it was so exciting. And I love thinking about it. And I can see I already have like a 3D rendering of it. And we're about to go into structural and all that. I love it so much. And what I really love about this house, not just the designing of the house and the furniture, like all that stuff, but I really see it as like a place that I'm building for my family to escape to. Like if there's. If everyone's happy or you just got engaged or you just broke up with someone, or you're feeling blue. I want everyone to have this place to go to that no matter where they live, they can always go there. It's their place. They have their rooms, they have their area. They know it. It's. It's really beautiful. And the nature there and the trees and the lake and it's just very like, you can Breathe deeply there. It's really nice. So that feeds my soul. And I'm working on some new TV projects. Terri and I have something that we're working on called Seven Year Stitch that, you know, had gotten put on hold. But it seems like we're gonna start filming in maybe February, hopefully. So that's kind of fun. And then some other things, you know, I'm, like, always pitching and juggling super creative.

It's like, super. You know, from design to, like, pitching ideas to business. That's, like, such a creative energy. Does it feel like if you don't, like, do you need a lot of outlets for that? Do you love being busy in that arena?

I like being busy, period.

Okay.

I really do. We've lived in this house four years. I'll tell you, I have sat on the couch and done nothing twice ever in four years. That is the honest to God truth. That's why having no vacations has been difficult, because. Especially because I do a lot of work from home. My YouTube channel or my podcast, whatever. I can do a lot of it from my house. So there's always something to do here. So it's like, even when I'm home, I'm at the office. You know what I'm saying? And then when you take away any sort of traveling because you can't, that can be very difficult. But I have found, because a lot of people ask me, you know, about the balance of kids and work and all of that. I'm very, very present with my children. I really am. But I am also present with my desire to work and create content and make myself happy in those arenas, because that's the balance, is that everyone needs their time and everyone needs to be happy, and you can't. And not everyone needs an equal amount of time. It is the squeaky wheel. Sometimes I need more time. Sometimes that one needs more time. Sometimes it's Terri. So that's the balance is figuring out how to, like, fix the pyramid. You know.

I look for examples because we want to have. Have children still. I'll be an old mom. It's gonna be great.

I'm an old mom. It's okay.

Yeah. My mom had my brother when she was 40, so I think that's always been an example for me. I'm like, I got time. And then I'm like, well, I'm gonna be 40 actually this Sunday. So I was like, you know, maybe.

Oh, my God. Happy birthday.

Thank you. I should start thinking about that. But it's just talking about that just totally, like, when Escaped my brain. What were we talking about? Heather?

No, but I had my last child at 42, by the way.

See, that's what I. Okay, so I'm always looking for examples of people who have either had children older or examples of women who are super creative, keep up that side of themselves while they have children and work it in. Because I feel like what I've heard so much throughout my life is when you have kids, you're gonna have to give that all up. So I. And that's not.

I won't.

I won't be able to breathe if I give up my creativity. I'm working on something. Like, that's who I am. I love to work on things, you know, you don't.

But that's the misnomer and that's, that's where it gets funky. And that's why so many of us struggle for so many years. But you're lucky. And I would say all, like new moms now are lucky because of the way you can create content. When I was a. When my kids were first born, you know, we didn't have all this stuff. So I was an actress. So, like you, you know, I couldn't go on auditions, I'm pregnant, or I had these little babies at home. And, you know, it just wasn't as easy to create content and do everything that you can do now. So I think it's such a. It's the best time ever to be able to juggle all these things. And here's the thing. There's no perfect time for anything. People that have kids when they're super young, they're empty nesters when they're super young. And that allows them to do those things. Then people like us who have kids when we're a little older, we got to do things we never would have done had we had kids, young trips, jobs, you would have taken anything. I was on a set for 17 hours a day. I probably would never have done that with children. So it doesn't really matter. It just kind of all works out and it's just part of the next part of your adventure. And you figure out, all right, let me. I'll put it to you this way. I had a friend who was an attorney, Steve, who said to me, and I'll never forget this, because he and his wife was also a high level executive. So the two of them had big jobs.

Jobs.

They were married and they had. They ended up with two kids. But when they had the first child, he said that the two of them had talked and they decided, look, we're grownups and we have this life, and we are inviting this child to be a part of our life. We're not going to be their life. They're going to now be a part of our life. And that's what they did. And they're, by the way, they're not selfish. They're phenomenal parents. They have great kids. They're functioning and happy and great. But I just sort of liked that attitude of, yeah, welcome on in. But here's how we do it, right? You're welcome to be here, but we're going to do this for now.

Yeah. That's amazing. Oh, I love that. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so I could talk to you all day, and our time is passing by super quickly. What is something that you wish more people knew about you or asked you?

I wish more people. I don't know. Does this sound obnoxious? I mean, I wish more people knew I was funny. Is that silly? So I've done standup. I started my whole career as a sitcom actress. It always was my thing. And then when I got thrust into the reality world, it was very difficult for me. And, you know, I was very nervous to be on there. And what was everyone gonna think? And my mother and this. And I was very buttoned up. And. And of course. And then I come off as this, like, very buttoned up, pretentious, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, whatever. And then Terry, who thought this was the funniest thing ever, and now on botched. So he. How hilarious he is. And by the way, my husband's super funny. I love him. He's hilarious. But what's amusing is people that have known me my whole life understand that I'm funny, whatever. And then people that know me from the show, perhaps, and maybe don't listen to my podcast or whatever, they don't really know. And so. So it was funny. We were out to dinner recently with two couples and one couple, the husband I didn't know very well, but he's in Hollywood, an executive, and he knew of my former career, but didn't watch those shows. All right.

Yeah.

And so. And we were out to dinner, and when we were, he goes, I never realized how funny you are. And I thought that's. So am I. Does that make me happy that he said that, or does that make me sad that no one knows I'm funny? And then maybe, is it just me that thinks I'm funny now? No, I think I'm funny. I still am funny. No, I'M okay. I can do that. But it just. It just. That's what. I guess. I wish people knew. People that know me know I'm funny, but it's just like, that's never. It hasn't been my character on television in a long time.

I actually relate to that because I.

Think I'm super funny.

And I feel like there's been a lot of things that I've done that aren't like, my book's not super funny. And sometimes when I'm on. It's just when I'm on things it doesn't bring out, I'm talking more on personal development or things like that, and.

I'm like, wait, this is.

It really bothers me if you don't know. I will have to. And sometimes you share it and then you're not funny for that time period. You're. You're with that person and you're like, oh, my God, I'm that person who thinks they're funny and I'm not.

And they're not.

Yeah, it's annoying. But anyway, that is amazing, and I love this time with you. I'm so grateful for you. And you guys, Heather has an amazing podcast called Heather Dubrow world, and you have like a zillion quadrillion listeners because you're hilarious and you're fun and you're.

Brilliant and very funny, apparently.

And very, very funny. You guys, go leave a review and tell her how funny she is.

Someone tell me I'm funn.

Just tell her she's funny.

Anyone? Anyone?

Any? Anyone? And you guys, if you loved this podcast, make sure that you tag Heather, let her know what your biggest takeaway was from the podcast, and just let her know how much you loved it. So, you guys, until next time, earn your happy. Bye, everyone.

Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to share this episode with someone you think would love it, that would be absolutely amazing and we would be forever grateful. Also, please leave us a review if you feel so moved by going to itunes and leaving us an honest thought and honest comment. Tell us what you think, tell us what you want to hear more of. It would really help us out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people. Until then, don't forget to earn your happy. Thanks again, guys.

Bye.

Bye.