683. Leveling Up - with Eric Siu

And that's what leveling up is all about. You're just kind of iterating, getting better every single day, drawing inspiration from everywhere, helping each other. And that's what it is.

Welcome to the earn your happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of The Bliss Project, 3 Time Fitness World champion, fitness expert and cover model, turned self love junkie, lifestyle entrepreneur and author. Each week I'll bring you a guest or a thought that will help you bust through your fears, connect to your soul and get focused and clear so you can elevate your life, business and relationships. We don't wait until we're ready for someone to tell us we're good enough. We take what we want and we anoint ourselves. Get ready to earn, own and unapologetically rock your happiness every single day. Are you with me? Here we go. Hey everyone. Welcome back to the show. We are doing some really cool stuff with the show lately. We are going to be featuring one of you on the show every single month where we are going to be coaching you live and recording it and putting it out on the show. So not only will you get featured, your business and your business idea will get featured as well. So what you need to do is rate, review and subscribe to this podcast. And if you want extra credit, you can text the word podcast to 310-496-8363. This is a massive opportunity to get in front of millions of people and I think that you should really go and do this because I would love to chat with you, I would love to coach you, you guys. Today on my podcast is Eric Hsu. He is the CEO of content intelligence software Clickflow, which helps you grow your traffic while looking like a genius. And who doesn't wanna look like a genius? He also owns an ad agency, Single Grain, and he's worked with companies such as Amazon, Airbnb, Salesforce, and Uber to acquire more customers. He hosts two podcasts, Marketing school with Neil Patel and Leveling up. You guys, they're both amazing and they have a combined 30 million downloads to date. He also frequently speaks around the world on marketing and SaaS. So let's get started. Eric, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for coming on. It's so funny. Like, before I even hit record, we were chatting and I'm like, okay, I need to hit record because we're already starting to talk about great stuff. So let's do this. So I'm so glad that you're here. Thanks for coming on the Show.

Thanks for having me, Lori.

So, you know, you got kind of thrown into my world. I started reading your story and I'm like, oh, my gosh, this human is amazing. I absolutely love, love, love the title of your book and your podcast, Leveling Up. I truly feel like that, you know, first of all, I don't know how you got the domain name for any of those things, because it's like, super kick ass, I'll hook you up. And then it's just, you know, we were talking before this. It truly is, I think, throughout your life, that is what brings us, is this constant seeking of purpose and leveling up. So, first of all, I just want to know what that means to you, because I know it has some double meaning, as in levels of life, but leveling up, where does it even come from for you?

Yeah. So, first of all, thanks for having me, Laurie. And for me, I think probably when I was 9 or 10 years old, I had two directions. I was going in One, I was building out an MP3 website, and the other was I was actually playing a ton of games. So I was never introduced to sports or anything like that. I kind of discovered games on my own. And so I started playing all these games, and I realized that I had started to become pretty good at them. And not only that I was joining teams. I was becoming part of communities. And these are just a lot of things that I didn't have in real life. Sure, I'd play with my friends and all that, but I learned that I would get stronger and stronger. A lot of these things, resilience, teamwork, and all that I had learned from games and the time I spent on it. And I was like, man, I think a lot of these habits can probably apply to real life. I just didn't know at the time. I had told myself at 11 or 12, I like, man, if I could just have this type of passion in real life for something, I would be set for the rest of my life. And I'd be happy because I'm just enjoying myself every day. So that's kind of where it started, and then it kind of progressed throughout my career. But that's the short story.

Okay, I love this because while I was reading parts of your book, I was like, oh, I'm loving this because I love when people draw parallels in their life with business. So, you know, for me, it was. I. I was kind of the same way. Grew up, like, not a lot of friends, really restrictive religion, and I found fitness, and that was a sport sort of that I could play on my own kind of like, you know, gaming. But it was like I felt like I was a part of this community, especially once, you know, Facebook and everything came out that I could, like, tap into this community. But I was finding that these kind of like laws or theories of fitness, once I started becoming an entrepreneur years later, I was like, oh, I get this. Like, I understand that you're going to do the same thing over and over and you're not going to see a result. And one day you're going to be like, oh my God, I did it. Or, you know, you're working through all of these obstacles. There's so many things like that, you know, time under tension as far as, like, building muscle. And it's like, how much weight is applied is going to make you stronger and all of these different things with, like, tearing yourself down. And I see that. That's why I was so excited when I was reading your. I'm like, this is exactly what he's doing. He's gamifying life and drawing the parallels from gaming, which is so many different things that we can draw parallels from to apply to business. So share a little bit more about your story just so people can kind of have a bit more of your backstory before we dive into that.

Totally. So, I mean, I was the ultimate failure growing up. So, I mean, I didn't enjoy going to school. I almost got kicked out of high school just because I didn't feel like going to this one history class my senior year. And then in college, I actually almost got kicked out my first year. I had six withdrawals and I think I had one or two apps. My grades had never been that poor before, but I was just that year. My logic for doing that was I wanted to play World of Warcraft. And I just. Other than that, I would go to the casino and play a ton of poker. So I was just. I just wanted to play games. I just wanted to get better poker because I could compete with people a lot older, a lot more experienced than me. World of Warcraft, I got to compete with some of the best teams in the world and we'd wake up at 2 or 3am and just do things other people just aren't willing to do. Right? So to play at that high level and to enjoy what I'm doing, that was what it was all about. So, you know, I. During college, I got fired from one job and I got fired from another job when I was about 24, 25 years old. So I was, you know, to my Parents to my friends. I remember one of my friends told me this was actually just a couple of years ago. He said, one of the his group said, eric, that guy had nothing going for him. And, you know, look at him now, right? So that's exactly what they thought of me. This guy had nothing going for him. So I was very lost until maybe about 23 or 24 years old when I was introduced to this digital marketing thing. And the cool thing about digital marketing, whether you want to call it social SEO, whatever, it feels like a game. And one of my friends, that he comes from private equity, the big investment banks as well, he's like, dude, what you're doing is you're playing games right now. This feels exactly like how we were growing up, because he used to play with me. So that's kind of the backstory. But after the digital marketing thing, I really never looked back because I kept looking for the next thing, right? So first started with SEO, started learning all these other channels. So a year into it, I basically became a VP of marketing for an online education startup. A year after that, I became the number two of the ad agency that I now own. And then six months into that, I took over the agency. So from about 23 till age 26 or so, it was like a whirlwind. And I think the key thing here is that I found what I liked and I leveled up rapidly, right? So that's one example of it.

Okay, so this leads me to the question, and I know that I had asked you before, like, what. What is exciting you the most right now about this? And it sounds kind of like, you know, honestly, I feel like throughout reading part of your book and what you're saying, like, you kind of feel like you find the keys to the universe when you realize, like, these different things that you were learning and that you're, you know, applying what you're excited about to these other things you're excited about. So I would like to know, you know, what is it that really excites you about this, like, leveling up that you've kind of discovered and learned about, like, what is most exciting to you right now?

You know, people often talk about creating a vision or a mission. And a mission is my mission is to level up the world. And some people might say, well, that's very broad. You know, you never accomplished that. And, you know, my response is, exactly, I'll never, ever accomplish that. And that's what a mission's all about. And so for me, personally, I just love learning, and I love Teaching, right. Everything we've been able to build so far, whether it's through the podcast audiences, growing our traffic, email list, whatever, and throwing our own event speaking, all those whatever accolades, that's all kind of whatever to me, because that's part of the journey. But it's all because we started learning first and we started teaching. And so I teach at USC over here sometimes in Southern California. I teach at Pepperdine sometimes. And I teach. I just love doing that. And so for me personally, I love leveling up every single day. And those that have that mindset, those that want to continue to grow, you know, come along with the journey with me, come along for the journey with me. And, you know, I'm totally open to. I'm just going to continue to do that and enjoy it. You know, it's a game that's never going to end for me. I don't have. Sure, I might have a target that I want to hit in terms of numbers by the time I die, but, you know, I'm just waking up every day trying to get 1% better. And that comes from the late Tony Hsieh.

Okay, I love this. And you talk about, you say, you know, anybody can win at life and business. What, what makes you think that anybody can win at life and business?

Yeah, I mean, you know, hanging out. You and I were just talking about Clubhouse before we went live, but I'm addicted to clubhouse right now. And we have a lot of these people that are hanging out in the rooms. You know, one person's a cmo, was the CMO of Fashion Nova. And then there's all these other big companies, whether they're, you know, seven, eight, nine figure entrepreneurs. A lot of them, they didn't graduate school. And they were seen as ultimate failures before. Some people, they grew up in really tough situations. They had single moms or, you know, they just, they didn't have anything going for them. No college, nothing. Right. Didn't graduate high school. And so, you know, they didn't let their circumstances define kind of, you know, how the rest of their. Their life is going to look. They continue to figure out a way, they continue to level up and they got to where they are. And I think that's what it is. It's, you know, it's. Life is not about, you know, taking a couple of tests and life doesn't go linearly that way. It kind of goes all over the place. And so you have to kind of go along the way. And the book talks about collecting power ups along the way. Right. Whether it's certain habits or things like that. But you have to continue to get stronger and you have to continue to seek. And if you're able to do that, you'll continue to level up. And I just think there's no way to fail because, you know, I think if these people can do it, if I can do it, I think anybody can do it, right? Because again, I got fired twice, I was. Got kicked out of school twice. So I just don't. I don't see why not.

Yeah, I love that. I do think that we all have our own unique gift, that we truly just have to find what kind of like what you said, like, where is that place that interests you? And then learn all you can about it and realize that those things can be applied and in so many different ways. So you talk about power ups, kind of like these habits that can be applied. Are there universal habits that you have found? Because you do a podcast, you know, you do, I'm sure, tons of interviews, conversations. You're on clubhouse, having all of these conversations. And what comes through these conversations is you see these kind of like universal truths of successful people. What do you think those are?

Yeah, I mean, it's. There's. I mean, there's. I can go on and on, but I would say one of the key ones, and you. And you probably know this just as well as I do, it's persistence. It's not giving up too quickly. I think having a growth mindset, just continuing to seek, to improve, to be better. But I also think it's really important, and some people, I think, fall short of this. It's having a beginner's mindset, meaning that you're never as good as they say you are. You're never as bad as they say you are. You're just constantly operating from that position. Right. I think some people, as they become more successful, they develop their ego, which more often than not, doesn't help that much. I think one thing that's counterintuitive is stealing, Right. You know, I have one chapter on thievery, and, you know, it talks about ethically stealing, but that word causes a visceral effect in people. And most people, because you just. You don't want to be known as a stealer or a copier. Most of us like to think that we're original, but if you think about what Steve Jobs says, everything in life is a remix, right? And, you know, you think about the mouse, they took that from Xerox. They took the gui, the graphical user interface, they took that from Xerox as well. So a lot of iterations are going on and I think that's. We're building on the shoulders of giants. And that's what leveling up is all about. You're just kind of iterating, getting better every single day, drawing inspiration from everywhere, helping each other.

And that's what it is that's so important for people to hear. Because truly everything that I've ever done or looked at, I've always just said, you know, like, how can I put my own spin on it? Because if I'm thinking this way, there's gotta be other people thinking this way or how can I make it better? And that's just where everything comes from. And I. It's funny, I had a girl, I still have this girlfriend, but she was like, literally, you know, that friend that you have that's just like stuck in their life for like five, seven years. And you can see why they're stuck, but you just have to like, let them run into walls. And the thing that she was stuck over, literally for like seven years was I have to come up with my original idea. Like, who am I? What is my message? And I was on this train that was just moving forward, really f. Because I understood immediately that no message is original. Like, I. They're just not like we're all getting these. You know, I think it's Plato who has that theory that's like, you know, there's this cloud that all these ideas come from. And, you know, we're all kind of like tapped into this place where all of these ultimate ideas come from. And it's just like, are you going to be the person who's willing to, you know, take that idea all the way through to the end or put your, put your spin on it? Like, are you going to be a good steward of that message that you're receiving? And know, like, this is not a rich. We're all kind of tapped into that.

That's huge. I mean, the whole message part is important because the message is the story, the unique story that you have. And nobody else can claim that or copy that. And I think a lot of people are too, maybe. I remember when I was working on the book, my mom said, who are you to write a book? Right? It's a lot of. And I think that probably comes from within. She probably doesn't think she's good enough. And so I think a lot of people tend to think like that. Right. It's a self defeating thing, but I think it's just important to know that that in itself is original.

With the holidays and the new year coming, you probably are looking around your house thinking that you would love to upgrade and freshen up your environment. And there is no easier way to do that than with your window treatments. Nobody covers windows better than blinds.com blinds.com brings your space to life in your way. They have free design help. Other retailers may claim to have experts, but blinds.com has spent nearly 30 years building an award winning team of over 100 design consultants that are ready to help you create your dream space. Always convenient, always tailored to you. Three ways to shop 1. Perfect fit Whether you want a DIY, have it all done for you or you're somewhere in between, choose what works for you and rest easy knowing the fit is guaranteed. So the holidays come fast you guys, and you can freshen up your window treatments fast as well. And unlike some competitors, the price you see is the price you pay. No hidden fees and there's zero pressure. From blackout in motorized options to classic shutters. Blinds.com has window treatments for for every room, style and budget, even shades for your outdoor space. The Black Friday deals@blinds.com are going strong all month long, so don't miss your chance to save big. And as always, our listeners still get $50 off when you spend $500 or more. Just use code earn at checkout, limited time offer rules and restrictions apply. See blinds.com for details. 2026 is the year that you launch your business. It's the year that you've become the boss. You become the leader. That idea that you been eating at you forever that just will not leave you alone is going to come to life. Maybe it's something that someone tells you you should always sell or a store you've already designed in your head. And with Shopify, 2026 is when you finally make it happen. Shopify gives you everything you need to sell online and in person. Millions of entrepreneurs have already made this leap from household name to first time business owners. Just getting started you guys. I use Shopify for glossy and I remember when they sent me my little shopping bag celebrating my 10,000 sales and I literally cried because I was so scared to take the leap. And I'm so glad that I did.

And that I use Shopify.

It gives you all the tools to easily build your dream store. You can choose from hundreds of beautiful templates that you can customize to match your brand. Set up as fast with Shopify's built in AI tools that write product descriptions and headlines and help you Edit photos so marketing is built into. You can create email and social campaigns that reach customers wherever they scroll. So as you grow, Shopify grows with you. You can handle more orders, expand to new markets, and do it all from the Same dashboard in 2026. Stop waiting and start selling with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com happy. Go to shopify.com happy. That's shopify.com happy. Hear your first cha ching this new year with Shopify by your side.

Okay, so that just brings me to the quick question about, you know, how. How did you feel when your family maybe wouldn't support you? And of course, I'm. I'm sure, you know, we all love our families and all of those things, but usually that's kind of the place where we can really get rocked, sidetracked, thrown off, because we feel like these people know us the best and we should listen to them. So tell me a little bit about that. Like, were you always supported and how did you move through that?

Oh, I mean, I love it, right? I think it's probably. I don't know if it's like my Asian tiger mom thing where she just. It's a constant beat down, right? So even like growing up, what would happen was instead of asking, why are you so interested in games? It was, no, you need to do homework. And they would take away my keyboard, they would take away my mouse. We'd get into these really big fights. So it was a constant struggle. And they would constantly compare me to, you know, those, like my peers, basically, look at your cousin, look at these people, blah, blah, blah, look at them, look at them. And when are you gonna get this right? So it was constantly feeling like you're not good enough. And so the chip on my shoulder that I have, and I think it's really important for everyone to explore the wiring that they have from their childhood is. I didn't feel like I was acknowledged growing up. So I have a chip on my shoulder and I'm going to prove you wrong. I'm not saying that's a good thing or a bad thing. It's just how I'm wired. So even to this day, I think even when I took over the company at 26 or 27 years old, they're like, who are you to take over the company? Like, you don't have the experience, right? Who are you to write a book? Right? And that drives me. And so I've learned to reframe that in my mind, saying, hey, you know what, the psychological pain is actually good, so I don't get beaten down by that. I actually get stronger from it. And so, like, I'm not gonna lie, sure it hurts in the interim, but I quickly reframe it into something else. So that's kind of like a mental jujitsu that you can do if there's something going on in your head. If you can somehow reframe it into something positive, you can turn it into a strength.

Oh, man, I love that you pointed that out. That is literally the story of my life. Like, I, I, you can tell me anything or give me anything, and I feel like I can take that shit sandwich and turn it into something, like, amazing.

Yeah, most people can't do that. Most people break from the feedback.

Yeah. And it's, you know, it's, it's crazy because there's, there is truly, no matter how traumatic or tragic, there is something that you learn from it or even if, even if there's like, nothing that you can find, it's always that concept of, like, wow, if, if I can get through this, then there is, like, nothing that can be thrown at me that I won't be able to get through. So there really is always something. So what is it that you think as far as maybe bringing other people into your world or. I know that you talk about teamwork. What is it with. Let's talk about collaboration and the power of collaboration. Have you found. Cause it sounds like you were a bit of a solo person for a while, especially gaming. And, you know, I found myself in kind of a solo world as well. What changed for you as far as when you kind of like, connected, collaborated or brought people into your world?

So at 10 or 11 years old, these MMORPG games, so these are massive worlds, right? Role playing games started coming out. So those that know World of Warcraft, there was a game before that called EverQuest. And that's where I first started to get a taste of what collaboration really felt like. And so at that age, by the way, being able, it was basically me trying to apply for Google at the time, because I was trying to apply for the best team. There was tryouts and all these things. Wow. And so, I mean, to do the best things, to do the most important things in the game, I had to be a part of the best team. So I had to learn at that age to kind of build relationships, quote, unquote, network. I had to learn how to talk to people, I had to learn how to perform. And all of these actually apply to to real life. So I learned at a pretty early age.

And were some of these people a lot older people? Like, I don't know how that works for some people.

Okay, so a lot of these people were in college, and a lot of these people were, you know, professionals. A lot. Some were lawyers. Some people were like rich people that own planes and things like that. Oh, my God.

And you were how old?

I was 11. Yeah. They took me under their wing, and they, like, they didn't mind. They didn't, by the way. What was important to me was they accepted me for who I was. They accepted me based on merit. They didn't judge me based on my age, and they treated me as an equal. And I couldn't find that in real life. And kind of the kind of what you're talking about, Laurie, I mean, you found your. Your community. And I think that's what all human beings are looking for, because at the end of the day, looking through this pandemic, we all crave that human connection, which is why you and I have been talking about clubhouse so totally.

Okay, that is absolutely crazy. I can only imagine what you learned through having to have those conversations, you know, And I think that that is one of the biggest pieces kind of about leveling up, is you are only going to go to the level in which it is that you're putting yourself, like, kind of in these rooms or in these games or throwing yourself into these things. So what do you do now, Eric? Because you're, like, very, very smart. There's probably not a ton of rooms. I know there still are these, you know, quote unquote rooms out in the world with a lot of people smarter than you. But how do you seek out, like, do you seek resistance? Do you seek. How do yourself into these spaces where you continue to level up?

Yeah, that's a great question. And actually, I mean, one thing I think is important for people to know, you don't deserve to go to the next level until you've beaten the current one. And so what I do, I think, to your point, if I'm constantly trying to level up every day, it also means putting myself into uncomfortable situations. So to your point, I mean, when I first took over the company, I ended up joining a group called Entrepreneurs Organization. So that level is you have to be doing a million a year at least in revenue. And then my goal after that, right immediately after joining, was I was like, okay, I'm going to join YPO for ypo, which is Young Presidents Organization. It's another kind of peer Group of entrepreneurs worldwide. You have to be doing 13 million plus, right? And so that was. I stayed in EO for a while, and then I joined ypo actually in 2020. And so I'm constantly looking for the next thing, and I know that there's other groups out there. So for me, I'm like, okay, even though I'm part of this level right now, what's the next level? And I'll start asking a lot of people, and they'll naturally tell me, hey, this is the next progression. This is the next progression. And even. Even in clubhouse, I try to put myself into uncomfortable situations, right? Sometimes I'll be, you know, I'll join rooms where it's, you know, you have Asian people talking about complaining about the nine to five, and I'll join. I'll give a contrarian answer. Or sometimes I'll join a room where I'm the only yellow person, right? And it'll be awkward, but it'll be kind of funny. But then, like, I'll ease into it, right? So I do like to put myself into those positions, as long as it's not gonna put me in physical harm.

So, okay. So I think the thing about that for people is obviously they're afraid to do that. So they're like, yeah, that sounds like a really great idea, Eric. But when they go and do it, they don't have kind of a. I know in order for me to have started doing those things, I almost have to have a plan of how I'm going to support myself around if, like, shit goes awry, right? Like, maybe you put yourself in that situation, you say something, and people kind of come at you. Like, that's the ultimate fear, right? Like, kind of like, okay, what if it's rejected? What if someone calls me out? What if it gets weird? Or what if I don't know the answer? So how do you mentally prepare to put yourself in an uncomfortable situation where things like that could happen?

Yeah, that's a great question. And that actually reminds me of my poker days in college. So just for context, again, going back to ultimate failure, when I was about 19 or 20 years old, I went into about $25,000 in credit card debt. My credit score dropped to 480. So in the United States, it's based out of 850. So I basically didn't qualify for anything. Couldn't get a car loan or a home loan. And so what I learned from poker that's really important is that poker teaches you resilience, so you can be playing your a game literally three months or six months straight, or even 12 months straight. And you can lose, right? Because it's just math. And poker teaches you a lot about bankroll management, teaches you about thinking in bets. There's all these dynamics that apply to the world of business, but it teaches you how to take risk. And I think that's poker has basically numbed me into. I have a bigger tolerance for risk than most people. So my take on it is, for me personally, I'm not saying this will work for everyone, is burn the ships, go and do it. And so what if you fail, right? What's the worst case scenario? If you keep working, if you keep working towards leveling up, you're going to make your worst case scenario someone else's best case scenario, right? So let's say you're someone that goes out there, you're a VP at a job, you're making like 250, 300 grand a year or something like that. You decide to start a business. Let's say you fail on the business in two to three years. But the beauty of that is all the learnings you got from that business. Amazing, right? And your worst case scenario is you can always go back to that high paying job. So your worst case scenario is someone else's best case scenario. And that's how, that's, that's another reframe that people can be thinking about. Because really, at the end of the day, if it's not fatal to you, you know it's going to be a good lesson.

Hey.

Hey.

Let's take a break. I want to tell you about our sponsor, Indeed. If you're growing a business like I am, you know that one of the most important things you can possibly ever do is hire. And I always talk about how important it is to find good people and to find people who are better than you and to hire around your weaknesses. So indeed.com is the hiring site that helps you find quality candidates. With Indeed, Instant Match, Indeed searches through millions of resumes in their database to help show you great candidates instantly you can do the part you really need, faster meeting and hiring great people. Unlike some hiring sites, Indeed gives you full control and payment flexibility, delivering a quality shortlist faster. With Indeed, there are no long term contracts. You can pause your account at any time and you only pay for what you need. With Instant Match, you see a list of great candidates with zero weight. And Indeed delivers four times more hires than all other job sites combined, according to Talent Nest. Want your quality shortlist fast. You need Indeed right Now our listeners get a free $75 credit to upgrade your job post@ Indeed.com Happy this is Indeed Indeed's best offer. Available anywhere. Get a free 75 credit at indeed.comhappy indeed.com Happy offer valid through March 31st. Terms and conditions apply. Real quick, I have to tell you about my husband Chris and I's new favorite obsession, you guys. I found it in the grocery store and now I have been ordering it it non stop. Super Coffee is really healthy. It's a delicious alternative to sugary coffee drinks and it tastes like a freaking Frappuccino. It combines the caffeine from two cups of coffee with protein and healthy fats to give you hours of focused energy with no jitters or crash. Did you know that Starbucks Frappuccino has 52 grams of sugar and 370 calories? That's like starting your day with a double cheeseburger. You guys. Super Coffee is just as delicious as Frappuccino but contains means. Listen to this. Zero grams of sugar, 10 grams of protein and only 80 calories per bottle. It's keto friendly, lactose free and gluten free. Super Coffee's bestseller is their bottled coffees, but they also make tasty canned espressos, coffee creamers and ground coffee. You guys, Chris is obsessed with the canned espressos. They're only 35 calories and they're freaking delicious. When I say they taste good, I mean that they are like my afternoon treat that I take I think about all day long. I'm obsessed and they even help curb my cravings. Super Coffee was recently named the fastest growing food and beverage brand in America by Inc. Magazine. You guys, I am so obsessed with them that I actually reached out to them because I'm so in love with this product. Super Coffee has a 60 day money back guarantee, meaning if you don't love it, you get your money back, no questions asked. We've worked out an exclusive, exclusive deal for Earn your happy listeners that you get to receive 25 off your entire first purchase. I recommend trying one of their best selling variety packs or bundles. It's a great way to try all the delicious flavors. To claim this deal, go to drink super coffee.com forward/lori or you can just use the code Lori at checkout. That's L O R I. Super Coffee is also available nationwide in over 25, 000 stores like Target, Whole Foods, Walmart, Kroger and CVS. You guys, guys, trust me. You got to try it. Let me know what you think. Okay? Bye.

Too many people finish their workday feeling frustrated, drained and unfulfilled. I know that. I have experienced that myself. And the good news is, it doesn't have to be this way and you don't need a new job to fix it. Patrick Lencioni, author of the Five Dysfunctions of a Team and more than a dozen other bestsellers, created the Working Genius assessment to help you pinpoint the kind of work that gives you energy, the kind that lights you up, and it also shares the kind that drains it. So over a million people, including me, have taken it and completely changed how I lead and show up every day. If you're a CEO, an entrepreneur, or someone who just wants to level up in business and in life, Working Genius is going to give you the clarity and confidence to operate in your strengths and find greater joy in what you do. Because confidence isn't pretending to be good at everything. It's knowing where you're truly gifted. Take the Working Genius Assessment today and get 20% off with code earn@working genius.com that's working genius.com you'll be glad you did it. There are so many challenges to business that I don't want starting to be.

One of them for you and when you want more.

When you're starting a business, you need Northwest Registered Agent because you get access to thousands of free guides, tools and legal forms to help you launch and protect your business. And it's all in one place. You can build your complete business identity with Northwest today. Northwest Registered Agent has been helping small business owners and entrepreneurs launch and grow business for nearly 30 years. They're the largest registered agent and LLC service in the US with over 1500 corporate guides. Real people who know your local laws and can help you and your business every step of the way. You can sign up for free account to begin managing your business hub with lawyer, drafted operating agreements, bylaws, resolutions, membership certificates, bills of sale and more at no cost. Northwest makes life easy for business owners. They don't just help you form your business, they give you the free tools you need after you form it. Like operating agreements, meeting minutes and thousands of how to guides that explain the complicated ins and outs of running a business. And let me tell you, this is life changing because I had no idea how much went into this. So don't wait. Protect your privacy, build your brand and get your complete business Identity in just 10 clicks and 10 minutes. Visit www.northwestregisteredagent.com Earn free and start building something amazing. Get more with Northwest registered agent@www.northwestregisteredagent.com earn free.

Yeah, it's, it's crazy. You have to be a little bit like, you almost have to be a little crazy. I don't know, I'm just thinking of like right now, you know, I got, I got the vision for this company that I'm starting right now and I, you know, raising money, I'm raising money from a lot of people that I know, a lot of, you know, people that are in my network, a lot of like high net worth people and it's and friends and people who it's first time investments and things like that. And I have had to go down that road. Like I've had to face that road of like what happens if this fails and I lose all these people's money? Like and, and that would usually paralyze most people and I've had to just say, well, you know, if I fully share with them what the, you know, what could possibly happen that they could lose their investment and I'm super upfront and I tell them the expectations but that I'm going to, you know, be the best steward of this money that I possibly can in this business. Then I think it's like, it's like you just have to, you have to get right with that. Like you have to be okay with that. How do you, so how do you personally do that when there are like people involved in your life that you have a lot of respect for that you could potentially disappoint? How do you manage thoughts like that?

Yeah, totally. I mean we have investors for our software product and we actually, I think there's like over a hundred people on the cap table and you know, for us, kind of to your point, Lori, we do keep them up to date. We send them investor updates, rates once a month and then if there's anything to report on with traction, new hires, anything like that, we're just very transparent. If things aren't going well, we're very transparent as well. We do have a contingency or it's not a contingency plan. But if the company does fail, knock on wood, what would happen is we would actually reach out to each and every individual investor and just say, hey, here's exactly what happened. I'm so sorry. Thank you so much for believing in us. So maybe you get a next at bat from these people. Maybe a large chunk are not going to believe in you for the next one, but still you're going to have goodwill built up with a portion of them. So I think I Think honesty is the best policy. And I think I might have missed your overall question. Did I get it or not?

No. Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of it is just how do you deal with it? Sounds like you have kind of thought of that in your head. But how do you personally, let's say your company fails. How do you personally, at night, when you're going to bed, kind of deal with the thoughts that can come of the feelings of disappointing people?

I remember. So when I took over my company, one of the companies is an ad agency called Single Grain. And originally there were five partners in the company. They actually hired me on to help save the company. And six months into it, the four of them decided that they wanted out. And I was able to basically acquire the company for basically almost nothing out of pocket. A year into it, we had dropped all the way down to one employee. I had read this book called Let My people Go Surfing, and I took the title literally. So I just like, oh, yeah, let my people go surfing. So not gonna come to the office. Go. Let them do their thing, you know, autonomy. Let them. Let them figure it out. And what ended up happening was, you know, people stopped. People stopped coming into office. People, the ones that did would come in with, like, a bag of chips and watch Family Guy. And it was just crazy stuff going on, right? And I remember my outside accounting firm called me and they said, hey, I think it might be time to shut it down. And at the time, I got a job offer that would actually pay pretty well. We're talking like, we're talking about seven figures and a year. And, you know, I said yes. And at the moment I said yes, I was like, holy crap, I can't do this. I can't ever go back to work for someone. And I. Even though there was a ton of pressure at the time, I was like, no, we just have to power through. We just have to keep going. Here's where the resilience comes back in. Because. Because everyone else, even my podcast co host, Neil, he was a partner in the agency. He's like, dude, Eric, there's no brand equity here. There's nothing here. You should get out. And I think sometimes it requires you to be to your point. It requires you to be crazy. Maybe you see something that other people don't. And if being crazy isn't enough, you actually have to power through it, and you actually have to see it through. So I think for me, as painful as it was, I think I was numb enough to continue dealing with it.

You know, you did something there, though. Like you did the op. You, you, you took that, you said yes to that job, and then you allowed yourself to kind of envision what that would be like. And you were like, oh, that's not going to work for me. Like, sometimes.

I'll tell you what, Lori, I mean that, that the, the person that referred me the job, I actually hot potatoed it back to him. And what I predicted exactly was going to happen, that the company would have to lay off a ton of people and they would basically have to shut down. That's exactly what happened. But anyway, keep going. Sorry.

Oh my gosh. That's crazy. No, but that's, it's, it's literally so this kind of applies to that. But it's like the, almost like the takeaway. Like I always play this game with myself, which is funny because you talk about gamifying life and I truly, truly do. I always do this thing called the takeaway. Like, if I, you know, when I was about to start this company, I'd asked myself, I was like, oh my God, should I do this? You know, I spent like six months in this, like, hardcore, like, questioning if this is what I want to do because it was so opposite of anything I had ever done. And then I say, okay, if somebody came to me and said, you know, I'm you, absolutely. You can do anything you want in the world except for this. Like, we're taking this totally off the plate. You're never allowed to do it. It's not even in like the realm of possibilities for you. And if I get like a crazy visceral, like, reaction, I was like, oh my God, what in the hell would I do with my life if not this? And, and that's always been huge for me is like, do the, do the takeaway. Like kind of like gamify it. Like, what if, what if these options aren' the plate? Like, what, what then? Like, what now? So for you, what is something that, if you, if it was like, taken off the plate for you in your life's purpose, you feel like you'd die?

Yeah, that's a great question. I, I think also, Lori, it's, I think it's important for everyone to know that. Laurie, what you just talked about is these are mental models, right? The takeaway, that's a tool for you to use. So if you think about Batman or Batwoman, they have a lot of tools in their tool belt. And I highly recommend, you know, there's Farnum street, it's all about mental models. These are Essentially ways for you to think about things. Right. Because a lot of people actually don't spend a lot of time thinking. So an example of that might be if Lori decides to start this business, what are the second order consequences? Maybe she can't work on her current stuff. And what are the third order consequences there? Maybe revenue might dip for a little bit, who knows. But I think it's really important to understand that concept because the Leveling up book does talk about mental models and power ups and things like that, but you have to continue to go collect these mental models and you have to continue to sharpen the sword too. It's not cause you learn about it once and that's enough. You have to keep refining. So your original question was, if something was taken, what would be that one thing, right, where I'm just going crazy? I think my ability to teach. So whether it's through podcasting or YouTube or going to the colleges, because if you said, Eric, what's the one thing you would do if you had no work right now? It would be to continue to learn and teach. So I think that growth, mindset, that's probably the most important attribute, at least for me personally. Hmm.

I love that. So what does it. I so relate to that. Like I definitely have the teacher archetype for sure. I feel like most of what I learn is like the reason I'm starting this company is because I want to then model and teach women how to create a company like this. So I love that. I fully understand that to my core. What excites you about teaching? What do you, Eric, personally feel like when you are in it and teaching? What does that actually feel like in your body and your brain?

Yeah, that's such a great question. Selfishly, it feels like a drug. So people's eyes light up and you know that you've impacted them and it's like, holy crap, someone got a key takeaway where it's going to affect the rest of them for the rest of their lives. That feels amazing in itself. Sure. You know, the views or the ratings, that stuff is great. But I think being able to look at that and be like, okay, long term, I know this is how this person's gonna turn out. Right. Cause sometimes when I teach at, let's say if I teach at usc, there's always one kid in the class that's really curious and is asking great questions. And so, you know, for those I actually end up building a long term relationship with and it's just. And I continue to keep in touch with Them and even former employees that are very curious. I continue to keep in touch with them because I continue to learn from them and they continue to learn from me. And there's a dopamine hit, I think, when they kind of acknowledge that they've learned something from me. So it's a very. Part of it is selfish, I would say.

I mean, I think that's kind of the key. I think that's like going where the energy is, right? Like, figuring out where your energy is really, like, high and lifted and where you kind of feel like you're levitating to.

That's.

That's the key to success. Like, if you can spend more of your days in that feeling than not, then that is just, like, in alignment with who you are and why you're here. So if we were like two cups of coffee in two glasses of wine in. Don't know if you drink it all. But with that said, if we were in that place where we were just deep in discussion, what would be something that we finally get to where you're just like, yeah, this is like the good stuff, the good conversation, the stuff of life. What is that for you?

Yeah, I think it's. I get the most kick when I talk to my other founder buddies about asymmetric bets, right? So asymmetric bets means if you're making a bet on something, you might gain 10 to 100x return, right. And you might lose, not that much. So the idea here is there's this book called Dundo Investing that's D A N N D H O investing. And the concept here is when you're making these bets, you want to make sure that heads, you win, tails, you don't lose much or you don't lose at all. I love talking about this because this doesn't just apply to business, but applies to real life as well. I'll give you an example of an asymmetric bet from a business perspective with single grain. Going back to the ad agency, when I was negotiating the buyout, I basically paid $1 for Neil's shares for 10%, another dollar for another partner shares. 10%. And the rest of the payout would be through the profits of the company with a contingency of if the company failed, I would owe nothing. So for me at that age, I was like, okay, I'm in my 20s. I have a shot here because if I make it work, my upside is going to be unlimited. Basically. If it doesn't work, it's going to be an amazing learning experience. I can say That I ran a company, and that's going to help me with my career moving forward because people like to hire executives that have experience running something. And so that, to me is like, okay, I'm not putting in much. I'm not going to lose much, so I'm going to go all in on this. And so that bet made all the sense, but to everyone around me, it made zero sense. Right. So you got to be able to see something that other people aren't seeing. And it's the same thing with, I think, asymmetric bets would also be thinking about where you live as well. Right. Something as simple as that, because that has a big impact on the rest of your life, too.

Oh, man. Okay, so I can. Yes, we're talking about this. Okay, so with that said. So an asymmetric bet. So, yes, you're saying, like, from your inner financial workings and all of those things, like, you kind of figure out why it works for you, and other people may not see it. But also. And I'm sure the book talks about it, which now I'm gonna get this book. Sometimes I'm wondering, do they talk about in this book or with this, the. That sometimes, like an asymmetric bet, like, the upside is something that you can create and through perspective. I'll give you an example. Kind of like, okay, so let's say, you know, my husband and I have invested in this company. We put a lot of money in, you know, that if the company doesn't go, yes, we lose all of that money. But the upside for us that we are creating and seeing is that we're going along for the journey. We're learning so much. Like, we feel like we're getting a masterclass in investing. We also get to say we're investors. And, you know, we have all these different things that now we're invested in all these other companies because of this first kind of like, lesson. And these upsides that we learned by investing in this company, which still isn't sold, but we feel we've already made our money back because of that.

Yeah, I think that totally counts, because not only are you. The payoff can be asymmetric, but the learnings are also asymmetric too. Right? So nobody can ever take away that learning from you. And if you think about venture capital, usually what happens is there's going to be one or two bets in their portfolio that are going to be the big ones, the Ubers or the Amazons of the world or whatever, peloton, whatever. Maybe they'll have 10 to 20 investments that will perform like 10x, and the rest of them are going to be failures. And so it's roughly around those numbers. And so venture capital in itself is asymmetric. And I think it's also important to understand that it's okay if more than half of your stuff fails, because this is how most investing is. Right. If you think about Berkshire Hathaway, same deal with Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett. I remember Charlie Munger saying, if it weren't for these 10 stocks in their portfolio, they'd have a very average return. Just kind of across the board.

Yeah, yeah. That's so interesting. Okay. Definitely want to get that book. Okay. So when you're thinking of, you know, when you're having these conversations with your friends, what are things that you guys get excited about looking at, investing in? Where do you see for you a lot of things that, you know, excite you out in the world? Like, what are some ideas or concepts?

Yeah, I think the normal entrepreneurial add is you want to try everything, you want to do everything, and you think you're Superwoman or Superman. And the reality is when you think about, let's use Warren Buffett again or Bill Gates as an example, when they asked the two what's the most important thing that leads to success, they both wrote one word on a piece of paper and it said focus. So at least for me right now, and when I talk to my friends, we're all talking about buying other businesses, but when we think about buying other businesses, because, you know, obviously it's asymmetric, right. It can work out really well. You're buying, you're buying, you know, assets, you're buying, you know, teams and all that. So, you know, we try to keep it within our area of competence. So for me, I operate in the world of marketing, so marketing software. I invest in other SaaS companies. I'm looking at buying other, you know, potential services business, too. That will tie in with my audience. Now, my friend's company, he has a portfolio of pet companies, and he just focuses on that. My other friend focuses just on WordPress, and my other one focuses on telecoms. But we just try to stay around those because once we start to stray away from it, we're not going to have an advantage. We do have an advantage because whatever I plug in that's related to marketing, I can plug into my audience. Same thing with the other people. So that's the type of stuff that we nerd out on. Because I think, I think growing up, we think, okay, we need to get a salary, need to get a good paying job and then they're going to give us a pension. The next level is, okay, we're going to start a business. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. You're going to make a lot more. But if you can go out there and acquire other businesses and invest in other businesses, that's actually a lot less work. And you're going to get your time back and you're going to have situations where they multiply your output. Right. So one plus one equal isn't just two, it's more like, you know, one plus one equals like five or something like that. Right. Because you have so many synergies with all the stuff that you're working on.

Okay, so let's rewind. Just for people who are like, oh, damn, I'm not even, you know, I'm working on starting my own business or trying to figure that out. What point did you start looking at? Wait a minute, there's this world that I could, you know, I, I've kind of looked at or I've kind of done my own business. Going into, you know, acquiring other businesses, that's like a totally different, you know, level, totally different animal that you're dealing with. So for you, when you first, when did that idea first even kind of like come into your radar and what did you do to start learning about that?

Yeah, I think I would be a bad example of this because when I was 22 or 23, I actually bought an E commerce store for like with my life savings at the time, which is like $4,000 that failed. And then I tried buying an IT training site. That one failed as well. And then Single Grain, I actually. So those two I bought and failed. And Single Grain technically was a mergers and acquisitions thing. I'm air quoting because it's like it wasn't really, it was just me buying. But what I would say is I started learning more about it just by having conversations with people. So it does matter who you're hanging around with. And if you're saying you don't have that network, then I, what I started doing was initially I would go to conferences and I would connect the speakers together and I would host a dinner and I'd pay for it. Right. So I become kind of the center of all that. But I digress. So.

No, that's a great tip.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think it's, it's. You start reading about, you start having these conversations and you start looking at what other people are doing, you know, who are the biggest companies? What are they doing? And I'm not saying everyone needs to aspire to. To that. I just want to know what they're doing. And so I read this book called Buy, Then Build. That's a great book. And there's another one called Buying the Small Business. That's from Harvard Business Review. I think if you're interested in that, you could potentially skip the level where you're operating a business and go directly to buying it. I personally wouldn't recommend it, but there are some people that have done it before. Right. You would just need to learn how to hire an operator. So there's different. Sometimes you can skip to a level, but you just need to. To understand the different dynamics of what else you need to make happen if you're going to skip a level. Sometimes you can combine levels. And so the game of life is really different for everyone.

So let's talk about that for a second. Just this idea of, I think when people are first either starting out or even if they've been in business for a while, if they're thinking of a concept, sometimes they think they need to know everything. Like, oh, my gosh, I need to be the CEO. I need to know how to do my who knows? Supply chain, or if it's something more like you do. I have no idea the lingo for what you do, so I'm not even gonna try it. But, you know, I'm sure there's a lot in your business that you don't know that you hire teams for, or that maybe even if you're starting something, maybe you find a CEO to run it who actually knows exactly the ins and outs. So can you tell me, like, an experience of something like that where you really didn't know anything about it and you just kind of built a team around you?

Totally. And, you know, I think in your 20s, you're learning, and then, you know, 30s, 40s, you're earning. And I think in my 20s, when I say learn, you're learning how to do things. And I think once the company gets to a certain size, you start to realize, holy crap, I can't pretend to be the best at everything. In the beginning, you are. You're doing everything. You think you're a superwoman or superman, but then you realize, at the end of the day, anything great requires a team. SpaceX is not just Elon Musk, it's his team. And so I think it's important to understand not how to do it, but who can do it. Right. And so a Lot of these things. And I recommend this book called who. It's. It's with a question mark. His name's Jeff Smart. And you know, I'm just like, okay, forget it. Like, I'm not good at recruiting, right? I'm not good, actually. No, that. That's not true. Let's say I'm not good at finance, right? I don't like doing pivot tables. I don't like doing dealing with accounting. I just don't like. For me personally, I don't like attention to details. And so I just like moving to the next thing. The next thing I like. You know, there's the concept of the visionary and an integrator, right? So I think it's important to understand who you are, are. Take those personality tests, right? So take a strengths finder. There's a bunch of other stuff that you can take to really understand yourself a little better. I'm not saying they're the end all, be all, but from there, you build around your weaknesses. And what you ultimately want to be doing is understanding that. Let's say you're the best at marketing. That's actually a crutch on the company because the guy that founded eo, Vern Harnish, he has a really good quote that I remember to this day. The, the founder or the CEO's strength is the company's greatest weakness, right? The ultimate goal of the CEO or the leader is financing. So whether it's raising money or getting more cash from customers, that's one thing. It's recruiting and it's vision, right? Those are the three main things for a quote unquote, CEO or a leader. Now, beyond that, your goal, like, as you get stronger and stronger, is to be like, forget that. I don't want to be the CEO anymore. I want to be above the company. And I want to be kind of applying from a chairman or chairwoman level and just assisting strategically, helping with funds, and then just jumping in here and there wherever help is needed. So those are kind of the progressions there. You learn first, and then you realize, okay, who can I hire? Not how. And then you can progress to eventually becoming the person that sits above the business.

So where in your life are you feeling like you need to move from the person who's kind of running everything into that position? Do you have anything right now?

Yeah, I mean, well, so for one of the companies, we unfortunately had to fire the CEO. So I'm temporarily sitting in that role for the moment before we add a replacement. So that would be the one that's top of mind for me right now.

So is that kind of your theory on everything? Like, you don't want to be like everything. You start, you want to move up into the position where you're not even. You are hiring a CEO?

Yep. I think it's thinking about where are my strengths and where am I best placed. And I'm a very good starter. And, you know, I've got a vision, I'm a very good starter, and I'm great at just learning and teaching. Right. So I should just be focused on creating content. And naturally, creating content is a lot of leverage. It'll lead to deals, other relationships, things like that. And then learning also helps me with my vision too. And it helps me with kind of figuring out where we need to go next. So that's where I should be spending the majority of my time. Because if you think about the Warren Buffetts of the world, he just sits most of the time. Right. And Rockefeller back in the day, most people don't know that he just spent most of his time thinking. And that's the most valuable time. Because if you're. At least for me, if my calendar has a bunch of stuff in it, my mind's all jumbled. And so I think the more time I can clear out for myself, the better.

Oh, my God. Yes. I'm literally finding that right now. Like, I need to make sure I have this time to think because you are that person that you're coming up with the ideas, the concepts, the mission, the core value. Like, you're drawing people to you. And if you don't have that time for these things that really, I think, like create the magnetism, you know, that makes these big ideas or these obsession worthy companies or products. It's like, then you're kind of. You kind of got lost. You turned from this visionary into like this person who's just doing. And the ideas do not flow from that place. For sure.

Totally.

What do you do to, like, when do your best ideas come? What are you doing?

Yeah, great question. So Fridays I try to block it off. So no meetings at all. And then I do kind of try to batch my time. You know, Mondays are basically all meetings. And I would say for me also, so spending the time to. I actually block out time during the evenings to think for at least 30 minutes. And sometimes I might be walking around. And walking is actually great for thinking. So I try to block out as much space as I can. Ideally, I would have a lot more than that. Ideally, I would want a calendar where nothing is booked, but we're not quite there yet.

Yes, absolutely. Okay, so I could talk to you all day. Our time is fleeting. So I want to know what are some things, whether it's, you know, about your book or some ideas that you want people to know, like what is something that you want to leave people with?

Yeah, I think, I mean one concept from the book and actually borrowed this from one of my, the co founder of ConvertKit, Nathan Barry. And there's this concept of the wealth ladder. And so you know, the understanding is when we start on the bottom rung of the ladder we are going to school, right? And then you know, what happens afterwards is, you know, we're trying to build great habits, right? So school habits. The next level after that would be getting a job and then maybe one rung above that might be, you know, starting to freelance on the side and then maybe that goes well, you start an agency, right? Or you can start like a drop shipping business. But the whole idea here is you can continue to level up. You can level up all the way to building products, you can level up to building a social network, you can level up to building a SpaceX. But there's levels to everything. And again like I mentioned earlier, you have to defeat the current level to get to the next level one and there's no knock on you if you don't want to go to the next level because most people just don't want to do that. But look, all the levels are there. It's all done by everything that's been accomplished in the world has been accomplished by other human beings. So it's not like you're that far off from other people. And so I think that's really important to understand that. I think to your point earlier, if these people that didn't have anything going for them growing up, myself included, can make something happen in and create 7, 8, 9 figure plus businesses. There's no way you can't do the same thing. I think it's important to think about people don't like to talk about this stuff. They like when I hang out in clubhouse there's a lot of these millionaire rooms, right? How to become a millionaire, how to do this. Because they're looking for the shortcut. Because they're looking for. They wouldn't even know what to do with that money first, right? I think it's people don't want to be talking about the long term stuff, which is the mindset stuff, right? And the more you refine your mindset, the more you refine how you think, and the more you refine how to also think for yourself, the more successful you're going to be. And I think that's just the way it is. And by the way, one quote that sticks well with me is Chamath Palihapitiya. He basically said, look, for better or worse, capital makes you powerful because you can basically impose your worldview on other people. Again, for better or worse, whether it's right or wrong, I mean, that's just how our society is. So I think it's really important for people to understand that, hey, it's important to learn how to think, but it's also important to think about how you can kind of build a foundation for yourself where you don't have to be at the beck and whim of someone else.

So true. Well, I am so grateful for you coming on this podcast, and I am excited to finish your book. This literally just made me like, okay, how fast can I read this? So tell me about your book. Where can we get it? All of the things.

Yeah, super. Appreciate it, Lori. So they can go to levelingup.com and or they can go to their favorite online retailer, and those are basically the only ways.

Okay, you guys make sure you go and grab that book. And also, as you guys know, one of the biggest things that you can possibly do for our guests is to tag them on Instagram, upload this podcast, and let them know what your biggest takeaway was like. What was your aha moment? Eric? What's your ig handle?

Handle? It's Eric O S I U.

So tag Eric on Instagram and upload this podcast and let him know what your breakthrough moment was. Maybe it was a quote, maybe it was something he shared, but it's always so cool to be able to see how he impacted your life. So, you guys, until next time, earn your happy. Bye, everyone. Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to share this episode with someone you think would love it, that would be absolutely amazing and we would be forever grateful. Also, please leave us a review if you feel so moved by going to itunes and leaving us an honest thought, an honest comment, tell us what you think, tell us what you want to hear more of. It would really help us out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people. Until then, don't forget to earn your happy. Thanks again, guys. Bye. Bye.