687: Build the Best Relationships: Dating, Business, & Friends with Damona Hoffman

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Welcome to the Earn your happy podcast. I'm Lori Harder, founder of the Bliss Project, three time fitness world champion, fitness expert and cover model turned self love junkie, lifestyle entrepreneur and author. Each week I'll bring you a guest or a thought that will help you bust through your fears, connect to your soul and get focused and clear so you can elevate your life, business and relationships. We don't wait until we're ready for someone to tell us we're good enough. We take what we want and we anoint ourselves. Get ready to earn, own and unapologetically rock your happiness every single day. Are you with me? Here we go.

Foreign.

Welcome back to the show. My guest today is Damona Hoffman. She is a dating coach and a TV personality. She has starred in the A E Network's series Black Love and A Question of Love. She's a contributor for CNN Headline News, BET.com the Washington Post, L.A. times, match dating app, and more. Her advice has been featured in hundreds of publications, podcasts, and TV shows. And she was the subject of an Oprah O Magazine cover story in 2019. You guys, I love this conversation. All about dating and relationships and finding love during a pandemic. I mean, this can be applied to friendships, to business partners, to all of the things. I loved this conversation. You guys know, I love talking about friendships and relationships and just the dynamic that relationships play in life. And this woman is brilliant. So let's get started.

Damona, I'm so excited to have you on the show. Thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you so much for having me.

You know, I already love you because we just. Sometimes you, like, just connect with people right away before you even get on the show. And I was like, okay, you know what? How about we hit record? And we actually get. Let's actually get started because now we're just talking about restaurants.

So it's my. My next favorite topic. But, you know, above all, dating. But next, restaurants, for sure. They're related.

That's number two for sure. So I'm so excited to have you on, because when you are. When I was just looking at all the info on you and just really, like, excited about some of the topics that were listed below and started going down the rabbit hole of all of the things that you do. I know that so many people who listen to this podcast are in a place of struggling with their relationship or struggling with wanting a relationship. Like, I can't tell you how many times I've heard, like, does your husband have a brother? And I'm like, yes, he does, but you can't date him. He's dating someone else. Or just, you know, what do I do? Can we even date during COVID What does this look like? It's just a different world, I think, especially for women who are really achievers or really trying to go after their dreams or their careers. There's a lot to look at, there's a lot to think about, and there's a lot to navigate. So I would love to hear, you know, how in the heck did you even become, you know, a dating coach? And I know you're also a content creator as well, but how did you get into all of this?

Quite by accident, Laurie. I initially started out, get this, I was working as a casting director in television and teaching classes for actors on how to brand Themselves and market themselves. Because I was seeing really talented actors that were great at acting but had no idea how to get someone like me to pick them out of a stack of headshots, or no idea what to do once they got in the room, how to earn the job for themselves. And at the same time, I was online dating, and I started to see the similarities right between what I would tell actors about a headshot and what I needed to put in my profile photos to get picked out of the stack of pictures. And I ended up meeting my husband online 17 years ago when I applied those same techniques that I would tell actors to my own online dating experience. And I just thought it was something that, like, everybody knew. I really took it for granted. But people would come to me and say, well, let me, like, look at my profile, because you met this great guy, and I've had nothing but bad luck with online dating, or I just. I'm too scared to try online dating. And I started just polishing profiles for friends and family. And after I got so many calls, like, I'm getting married. I'm having a baby, I thought maybe this is something that I could actually make a career from. And the whole while I was working up the chain in television. But after I had my daughter 10 years ago, almost 11, I went back to the job that I thought I was my dream job, and I just didn't. I didn't want it anymore. And I said, well, what am I going to do next? Well, there's these dating profiles sitting around. I'd been just doing it on the side for many years and started to think of it more as my primary career. And here I am.

Oh, my God. We talk about this a lot on this show. Just like Accidental Entrepreneur, you just find yourself kind of, like, good at one thing, and then you realize how it can be applied to this other thing. It's so crazy how that happens. Like, what you're kind of good at. There can be a blueprint, right, that you can apply to all of these different industries. And I think people don't maybe think openly or creatively enough to know, like, how these two totally opposite things can be merged to create maybe this epic business. And a lot of times you fall into it just, you know, by accident. So, yeah.

And beyond that, even I see parallels between what you learn in life and how you apply it to dating and relationships, too. I think nothing is wasted. Every experience that you have makes you a richer person and makes you more able to connect with other humans and relate to more experiences. So what I actually do, there are other dating coaches that will tell you, like, no, no, no. You have to be more feminine. No, no, no. You have to. You have to attract a man. No, no, no. These are the rules. And I'm like, f. The rules. This is your life. You. You are you. You're always going to be you in a relationship, and you have to use all that stuff that you have that makes you great as part. Part of what attracts you to the right person.

Oh, it's so good. I literally. I love that because it's. It's so true. Nothing is wasted. And I feel like I. I fully can spot the people who live that way because there is no. There is no, like, stuck. There's no feeling bad. There's no, you know, dwelling in the past. If you really hold that belief of nothing is wasted, it all comes down to, like, this beautiful person that you are, and how can you bring it into that? So while we're also going to talk about dating, I'm so seeing. As long as we're talking about parallels, like, I'm so seeing how everything we talk about today, whether you're with someone already, whether you have a partner, how this can be applied to business or attracting your perfect customer or whatever that looks like. So you guys, if you're listening with the ears of, okay, well, I already, you know, have a partner or something like that. Like, today I'm listening with the ears to you, Damona. Like, okay, well, how can I apply this to attracting my perfect customer? What does this look like? So I'm really excited about that. Okay, so I know that there are a couple topics that right now you are really into with just, you know, how do you even find. Is it even worth even looking or dating someone during COVID I can't even imagine. My husband and I were, like, having cocktails, and I'm like, I don't know if I could, like, I don't even know what I would do right now if I had to, like, date someone during this time. Like, what are people doing? You know, we're kind of looking around the restaurant, which I know in la, people can't really even go to restaurants yet, but I was like, oh, I can tell that they're, like, super awkward and they're new right now. Like, how. How do we navigate this?

Well, first you call me. I mean, I say that kind of joking. But also, first, it's the acknowledgement that this is tough. Like, this situ. The whole Covid situation is obviously tough, but dating today can be Challenging because it's a learned skill. We like to think because we've seen so many rom coms and read so many fairy tales that love is supposed to happen magically. I'm not supposed to do anything and Prince Charming lands on my doorstep. And if you are not like ordering postmates all the time, I don't know how you expect the person that you're meant to be with to simply land on your doorstep. I look at dating as requiring effort. Effort. I have seen over the last 15 years that I've been doing this, that there are. I can predictably get someone into a relationship within a few months. Most of my clients like pre pandemic. I will say it does take a little bit longer, but I do have clients who have met and, and got engaged. I even had a client that got married in the middle of the pandemic. So I know that is possible, but at the timeline is. Timelines are a little bit wonky right now. But before the pandemic I had a system that 90% of the people who went through it ended up in a relationship by the end of three months. And I just, I feel so strongly that there are steps to be followed and that if you're frustrated, it just means it's not your fault. It just means you didn't have the roadmap. I give you the tips and the skills and the, and the structure. And then if you apply your, if you apply the thinking like I am learning how to date differently and this is possible. You keep a positive mindset about certainly can happen even in the midst of a pandemic.

Okay, that's so interesting. So looking at like the grand pool and I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk relationship and business because that's just where my, my brain is right now. Cause I think they are so parallel. So let's just like talk about there's this huge pool. How do we even start narrowing down what it is that we are looking for to make sure that we are getting in alignment, putting out that vibe, aligning ourselves to what we're going to go fishing for, what pond? How do we start figuring that out?

You're a very wise woman because you started at the top of what I call the dating funnel, the five step process. And that's mindset. I and I look at mindset as a twofold experience, challenge, experience, exercise. You have to first get clear on your own limiting beliefs. What's your stuff? What are you bringing to the table? And for a lot of people it's these repetitive Thoughts that tell them why, help them make sense of why they haven't met that person yet. So maybe it's. There are no, there are no good single men in my city. And I literally hear this from people in every city. I have clients all over the world. And they're like, it's so hard to date in la. It's so hard to date in New York, it's so hard to date in Chicago, it's so hard to date in Austin. So I'm like, okay, let's just accept it's just hard to date. Okay, it's not your city. But we like to, we tend to defer and deflect the, the blame. I guess I don't want to say blame because, you know, I think everything happens when it's supposed to be everything happens for a reason. That's. I, that's how I make sense of this crazy wacky world. Right? So you have to just take stock of what you are bringing to the table and take responsibility for how you might be reinforcing your own experience by continuing to repeat these thoughts. And maybe it's like if I just lost ten pounds or, well, none of the women in my family have good relationships, so I probably won't either. And if you just look at that first, that's way ahead of what most people are doing. The next step after looking at it is beginning to shift those thoughts and replace them with something that is more optimistic and shows you a possibility for being able to shift your life. The second part of the mindset work is just what you said, the clarity on who you're looking for. And I try to boil it down to values and goals for the future. I think those are the two most important qualities in long term compatibility and the ones that a lot of people skip over. They're afraid to say that they really want to be married or that they want to have kids. They're like, what if he runs away? Well, if he runs away now, good, he just saved you a ton of time.

Right, Exactly.

And then the values. A lot of times we, we associate certain, certain superficial things like height or the amount of money they make or the amount of education they have with a certain value. Even politics. I'm seeing a lot of people shortcut. Well, if he's this political affiliation, then that means. But it's a lot easier for us to do that than to open up the box and see what's beyond the label and what's really inside and how do they think and how do they look at the world. And you have to start with having absolute clarity for yourself on your own values and which values are important. And I help people really, really crystallize that and get it down to their top three must have qualities or values in their potential partner.

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You'll be glad you did it. Oh, man. Okay. This is so good. So what happens, though, when we. So we're working with disbelief, right? So we're already working on, like, okay, I'm going to believe that this guy is out there and that this is possible. And then I have my core values and I have my beliefs. How do I still go into this, like, you know, world of flirting and connecting and all of the things while also being like, yes, and what. What do you think of the future? Do you just lay it all out there? Like, here's my core values. Here's how I feel. I want to get to know you better. Do you think that, like, I've heard from so many women, like, they're afraid. They're too intense for people. And I'm like, well, you probably are if you're asking all that on the first date. So how do you. How do you navigate that? Like, okay, here's all the things that I'm clear on and that I know I need to know, but how do we not bombard them in the beginning?

I've started a new philosophy with my clients called empathetic dating. And this is thinking of dating not just from your perspective, but from the perspective of the other person that you're with and having compassion both for yourself and for that other person. So automatically, if you go into a date thinking of it like a conversation, it's not just like, here, let me dump off all my stuff. And if you're still here in the morning, then. Then it's meant to be.

Yeah.

Like, let me show you. Let me reveal a piece of the puzzle to you, and then let me see one of your pieces of the puzzle, and let's see if these two pieces can fit. Okay, now we know these pieces fit. What about this piece? And I always have to remind my clients that information has to be earned. Talking about, earn your happy, earn your information. Right? Like, people I've been. I've heard from clients, like, they'll get asked by a date, like, why did your. Why did your marriage break up? And they're like, like, on a first date or Over a text. And I'm like, you don't have to answer that. You don't know that person yet. And just because it's in the dating phase doesn't mean that you have to. You have to reveal that thing. Because this person at a cocktail party, if they were a potential friend and they were like, why'd your marriage break up the second time you met them? You'd be like, excuse me.

Yeah, totally.

But in dating, you think, well, I guess that's useful information. I need to tell them, no, you don't. And there are ways to shift and deflect the conversation. This is like a very useful flirting skill that I teach my clients that is so helpful and gives them permission to not have to. Have to address everything head on. And with that intensity, you just say, oh, why would I talk about my ex when I'm here with a handsome man like you? He doesn't want to talk about your ex. He's trying to assess his own liability here. If he gets in a relationship with you, are you going to turn crazy on him? He doesn't give 2 cents about your ex. He just wants to know what's in it for me. I need to know what I'm getting into.

So you can 1 to 10, how crazy are you?

Right? Right. So just. Just redirect the attention back to him, which is where he wants it to go anyway.

Oh, my God, it's so good. It's. It's crazy how having, you know, I have this conversation a lot, just in so many different areas. Right. Whether that's dating or friendship or clients or whatever. Like this relationship. Right. The connection, the networking. Because life is all about conn. And I love that you are giving, like, really tangible tools. Because at the end of the day, this is all broken into. How many tools and things do you have to say in your toolbox so that any objection, quote, unquote. If you could see my air quotes like that, you can navigate them. Like, it's not like you just go to the next thing and it's easy. It's like you have to figure out, okay, here's the place. I'm getting stuck in dating or in business, and here's how I can now support myself with this new saying or this new tool. And she was like, how many sayings and tools do we have in our pockets? So I freaking love this. Okay, so we went through number one, we went through number two. Do you mind if we go down the funnel? I believe it was number two.

We can go down the funnel. Yeah. So that was all number one. That was all number one. Like, that mindset is a really big chunk and has to be handled before we can actually get you out on the date. But then I really feel like people learn in motion. So a lot of this stuff makes sense as you start getting out there and going on dates. So the next thing in the funnel, mindset, sourcing. Where are you finding dates? It's Covid times. So the reality is that most things are happening online. So most dates are happening online. And I've been bullish on dating apps since the beginning. It's where I met my husband, and the majority of my clients have met their partners. It's. You talked about tools. It's not the only tool in your toolbox. It shouldn't be. And I've also been trying to get people to broaden out their. Their perspective of online dating. It's not just dating apps. Online dating is any online forum in which you can meet someone. So it could be a Facebook group, it could be an online. I have an online wine club. It could be an online book club, it could be an event, it could be a singles event. I'm seeing a lot of speed dating for singles happening online. It literally could be. Somebody wrote into my podcast, Dates and Mates about meeting someone on Twitch, the online platform that started for gamers, but now it's broadened. So you never know. You never know where you might end up meeting someone. And so I try to get them to see the possibilities. That said, you have to be on a dating app. Like, when people come to me and they're like, I just hate dating apps. And I just. I just don't want to meet anyone on a dating app. And I don't. I don't see that as my story. I don't. That's not the story I want to tell my kids. And I'm like, well, I don't know. Do you want to have kids to tell the story to? Like, my kids have never said, like, I can't believe you two met online. That's so weird, because to them, it's, like, so natural. It's so normal. Everything is happening online. It's no longer Weird. Maybe 10 years ago, when I was doing this, maybe it was still. There was still a little bit of a stigma. But since Tinder, like, blew the doors wide open on online dating, you gotta be on the apps. So that's number one.

Most people now that I know are have met online. My sister met her husband online. My aunt met her husband online. This was like 10 years ago. And I remember being like, that's so weird. And then being like, that's so awesome. Like, that's so cool they're still together.

Awesome. Yeah. And it's just the tool. It's just the tool that brings you together once you get offline, if we ever get offline in today's world, we can talk about zoom dates and how to make those work. But once you get offline, then online dating is just dating. It's just the same thing. But for anyone listening who's like, I've tried dating apps and they didn't work. You funny, because we will associate all of that frustration around dating with the app, with the tool, and put the blame on that when it's not. Like you said, the last time I met someone at a restaurant or a bar, it didn't work. So I'm never going to a bar again. Like, I met someone on the street and he approached me, but then we dated for six months and it didn't work out. So I'm never going outside my house again. No, we would never do that. So I encourage people to just stay open and try it again. Maybe you need to be on a different dating app. Maybe you need a few updates to your dating profile. But I know it works. I know it's possible. And in the last year, that is where the majority of people I know have made a connection. I.

Okay, I love this. And I'm. Obviously, I've never actually been on a dating app because I have been married for so long with this guy for, like, 17 years. But with that said, I do this for friendships. When I first moved to LA, I literally met everyone that I met through DMing 50 women the first month and asking them if they would meet me at orangetheory for a workout and then go to coffee. I legit dated friendships overall, just Facebook over Instagram, and it totally worked. I ended up doing some businesses with some women. I started events with other women. And there were so many bad dates. Like, so many where I was like, at least I got my workout in.

Well, actually, that's a. That's a good point for dating, too, to have that sort of philosophy of if you set it up to be fun for yourself and to really look at it as like, I'm just learning from another human, connecting with another human. But regardless, I tell my clients, you're responsible for your own good time. So I just don't want to hear like, oh, they were so boring. And I'm like, well, what questions did you Ask them how did you show up? How did you prepare? Because you can always find something, like, even in those bad dates, you maybe you learned, like, what to not do, who to not DM the next time. Right. There's value in all of it. But if you set it up for a fun activity, like, I'm really over the dinner date. I've been over the dinner dates for a long time for, like, 17 years, and I've always had my clients do an activity date. And this also applies if you're doing even more. So actually, if you're doing a virtual date, you add an activity to it.

Ooh, okay. Might need to ask about those. Okay, so sourcing, where are you sourcing from? There's all of these places, and again, it kind of goes back to your number one of just like, what's even your attitude around, like, sourcing, like, changing the story around where you're meeting these people. That's so huge. So if we've had bad experiences, like on the apps and things like that, what are some questions we can ask ourselves? I know that you said how you're coming into this. What are you asking? Are there specific questions that we can be setting ourselves up for that can make a more successful experience?

Honestly, usually when people are not happy with their online dating experience, I'll either find out that they have met multiple people that they dated long term and it just, like, didn't work out, they made too many associations with the dating app being the reason for that, or that they didn't do the mindset work, they didn't have clarity themselves. And they'll say, well, I'll know when I see it. And I don't believe in that at all. I think you train your brain to look for what. What you are focusing on. And a lot of times, if we have we don't really have conviction in that area, then that's when we end up, you know, falling for the nice smile or the cute butt or whatever it is that's not really on our list, but is very alluring and attractive in the moment.

Yeah.

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And the other thing is, I believe that true chemistry and connection builds over time. And I think if you're falling for that initial spark or even expecting that initial spark on a first date, you're not setting yourself up for success long term. So I have my clients keep that first date really short and sweet. And I think this probably would go also for building business relationships. I say try to stay about an hour and this is whether it's virtual or in person because you want the energy to feel like it's ending in the middle, like there's to be continued, something else to be discovered here. And that's what drives you forward to the second date and the third date. So there should be some feeling of curiosity, curiosity that drives the date. Like, gosh, I like, I remember when I met my husband, I was, I was like, I'm not sure if he's like my husband. I didn't have any, any awareness or even necessarily goal for that at the time, but I was like, wow, he's really smart and interesting and I'm just curious how his brain works. And I would be willing to spend, yes, one more hour with him to get deeper into that and to learn more. And then after the second date, I was like, I'm still really curious. And then by the third date, that's when for me, the chemistry and the butterflies started to develop. And so I really try to encourage my clients go at least to the third date. If they don't have any of their deal breakers. They seem to Fit their must haves. They didn't do anything to offend them or talk down to other people. And there's just enough there to keep you curious. I encourage you to keep going.

I love that. This is I, Chris and I, my husband, like, because we get asked a lot like, how'd you find each other? What's the secret? All this stuff because we talk, we love talking about relationships. And you know, I absolutely did not know he was my husband for like six months. He says he knew, but I did not know. And if you would have asked me even like three months into it, I would have been like, absolutely not. And it just built over so much. He was. Because I had these expectations in my head. I was going for X, Y and Z. This type, this type. I wanted them to be in this world. This is what was interesting to me. I wanted to experience these feelings. And I wasn't getting any of those things with him. And what I was getting was opposite things, though. Like real connection, real conversations, real support around what my dreams were and my visions were. And I was really friend zoned him super hard in the beginning. And it was just like after six months, it's like the connection had built so strong that all of a sudden all of these other things that I was like, getting outside of my expectations and when I let go of them, it's like all of these other, these things started becoming cute and super attractive and even more attractive than what I thought that I was attracted to. And it's just so interesting how that changes. And I'd love your take on it because I try to tell people, how do you be patient for that? When I think people come into this with a timeline, they're like, I don't have time to not know if this is my person and just hang out with this guy that I'm not sure about.

Yeah, Time is a big factor that comes up with a lot of my clients. They don't want to waste their time with the wrong person. And then they feel like there's this element of time, time invested already. Well, I've already been with this guy for six months and like, he's not perfect and I don't really love how I feel with them. But on paper he seems good. And I just don't want to have to start over again.

Oh, man.

I don't want to have to do all this again. But it's just, you're kind of, if you know that, like, if, if there's anyone listening who's like, I'm in a Relationship with somebody that doesn't make me feel the way that Lori just explained. Like, doesn't support my dreams, doesn't make me feel curious and excited and connected. It's probably not your person if you've been with them, you know, for a few months.

Yeah.

And like chemistry and physical attraction aside, like, that I've. And I've been, like I said, I've been with my guy for 17 years and it's only gotten deeper and our connection has only strengthened and I'm only more curious about him as the days go on. And that's the stuff that if you're looking for a long term relationship, that will really fuel you more than checking things off of a list. So wait, what was your original question?

The time thing.

And I think you answered it. Like, how do you. You kind of gave the specific or the idea of like, if you've been with them this amount of time, you're just not getting like deeper, you're just not connecting deeper. Yeah.

And the time patience is so hard. It's so hard for me to convey, especially right now. This is the biggest change I would say I've seen since COVID Like, I know with a hundred percent certainty that my system works. I also know that in the midst of COVID people do not behave predictably. That's just the bottom line. So while I can give you the system, I cannot account for someone getting exposed to someone who had Covid and being freaked out and then panicking about seeing, seeing you or seeing anyone and suddenly ghosting you and retreating. And that has happened to my clients who felt like they were developing with somebody and then all of a sudden something happened or the person lost their job or they just decided to go out of town for an unspecified period of time. Like all of these things have happened because we don't know what's happening next. Like we don't know what's happening next in life. So it's hard for me to predict with quite as much certainty as I did before the pandemic how long it will take you to find your match. But I do know if you keep working the steps and you keep saying staying, I say it like it's like 12 step, keep working the steps. But you know, kind of if you keep thinking of dating as a process and this is just something that. A process that you're in and it's hard to tell where in the process you are, eventually it will click and you will know where you are in the process and you will know. And what I'm seeing is that it's taking people a little bit longer to get launched and to get into that place of. Of trust and mutual respect. But once they do, like, I had a couple on the Dates and Mates podcast who met on Bumble in, I think March or April. They came on my show in December and they were like, this is the deepest relationship we've ever had. And I found out in January they got engaged. Like, they went from not knowing each other like, six months earlier to being completely bonded to. To being engaged. And I think pre Covid, that timeline probably wouldn't have happened. So maybe it's taking us a little bit longer in the beginning, but then because the questions are so big right now, like, it's literally life or death. Your decision whether not to make this thing super serious, but your decision whether or not to meet someone in person could literally be a life or death decision right now. So I would rather you take time and be patient with that phase of dating before you cross that threshold and then move more quickly into the bonding phase because you've gone through something so major with someone to even be able to vet them for that level of safety and getting that close to you.

Yeah, it's crazy. I think just like with everything right now, there's so many tough things, but there's also some things that can really, like, amplify and actually be beneficial for dating that, you know, now we're getting really clear on what's important to us. And I think a lot of us are really clear that relationships are probably one of the most important things in our lives. So we're a little more, like, clear on who we want to be around and what energy we want to, you know, we want to invest in. I can't help but think, like, when you're talking, you're talking about launching and just kind of applying these steps. And it's like, it's the same thing with starting businesses. I've sort of started a lot of businesses, and it's kind of like you can't totally tell what phase you're in. But you can also know that you are like, I've been here before. This is that part where I hit this wall over and over, and I think it won't come down. And eventually, if I. If I stay here long enough or I change the way I'm thinking that something is going to break through, positive or negative, like, I'm going to. I'm going to move forward. And it's like that with relationships. Like, you just are, like, making new Girlfriends. Right. I've moved so many times, I'm like, hey, this is that awkward point where I don't feel like I'm connected to them yet. But we're sharing a lot of stuff, and we're seeing each other a little more, and it's just. It's so. It's just so interesting with relationships. So we've gone to sourcing. What is number three.

So we actually covered it kind of surreptitiously. It's screening. And so that's all the things, like lining up with your list, your. Your values, your goals. It's seeing is this somebody that I really want to invest in my time with. And just a quick note on that. During COVID I have all my clients do a Covid dating safety plan. So they write down in advance what they're comfortable with, when they would go to someone's house, when they would meet them unmasked. And for some people, that's the first dates. For some people, it's three months in. But, yeah, I find that you probably experience this as well when you write down your plan or your values, the things that you think might be challenging decisions in the moment, when you actually commit them to paper or you say it to another person, it makes them that much more real. So that when you're in the moment and you're like, oh, I don't know, should I go into this guy's house? You don't have to think about what decision to make because the decision was already made for you about where you would be, what you would become comfortable with.

Oh, especially up front like that. Oh, my freedom. Like, when you start saying what you need, you want up front, you don't have to, like, be in a, you know, compromised situation and where it's just like, maybe because we already, you know, had this long dinner, and now I'm not like, I don't know. Just.

Yep. Two drinks in.

Like, I don't totally not care about anything.

Yeah. Yeah. And I also have my clients that a drink maximum. Like, what point do you feel like you're not making the best decisions? Because people will have a drink before the date, you know, and, like, that helps them loosen up. And then they'll have another drink on the date and then four drinks in. And I've been there. I'm not saying this with judgment.

I was like, why didn't I have you on speed bell when I was, like, 20? Oh, God.

I figured it out the hard way. I was like, oh, it turns out for me, I'm a Very small person. I'm five feet tall. It turns out that number is one for me. By the second drink, it's like, these are not. These are not my choices. This is not a good decision. No, no more so, you know, maybe. Maybe your tolerance is a little bit higher than mine, hopefully.

So.

But, you know, and so I have clients that don't drink at all. And that's a whole other girl. We could get into a whole other conversation about dating. Dating and drinking culture, but that's a whole. That's the whole conversation for another show. But, yeah, that will help you screen more effectively if you're able to really stay clear and make good decisions. And then we work on your presentation and flirting skills. So, again, learn skills like having those tools, knowing what to say, practicing before you get into situations, like we discussed, so that you. You already know what. What you're going to say. You already know a way to say it that's inviting and not. Not judgmental or forceful, but still makes that person want to get to know you and allows you to still have your boundaries. And then the last one is follow through. And you probably have experienced this with networking as well. Like when you think you made a connection with somebody and then they take a week to get back to you, that tells you something about their commitment to getting to know you.

So what do you think? Can people.

Do we stick around for that?

Do we. You know, in business, you follow up 7, 8, 9, 10 times if that's something that you really want. Like, you take no, a little bit later than I think you'd take it in relationships because people are busy and things like that. So how do we. Do we set our expectation? Do we set a number? Do we have. Do we take things into consideration? Consideration? Do we give anybody, like, a free pass for certain things, or do we decide that all from the beginning?

I'm a little bit more. I allow more, I think, than my clients right now, just because of COVID I. I'm giving more people the benefit of the doubt. But again, if we approach it as empathetic, dating from the perspective of the other person, like, a lot of my clients will start out just thinking from their own perspective, like, well, I want this person to show up for me and to pursue me and chase me and. And yet they will be swiping on multiple people, talking to multiple people. But then if that person doesn't pursue them aggressively enough, but not too aggressively, but somewhere in between, they'll be like, oh, well, he didn't really. He didn't really show up for me. And I'm like, but weren't you like just talking to somebody else last weekend? And aren't you swiping on other people still? So you have to just assume that they're coming to the table with probably the same energy that you have. They don't know you yet. Like you have to, someone has to, you have to prove yourself to someone just as they have to prove themselves to you. So I try to release expectations of how it's supposed to go and really focus in on how do you feel when you're with this person? Are you still curious about this person? If so, it's worth a follow up. And there's a big difference between sort of reminding and making yourself available or visible and chasing. So usually all my clients just do a single follow up and then if the person does not take the bait, you save your energy for someone else. The average response time for A text is 90 seconds. 90 seconds for a text. So that tells you something like if you text someone, not that every text is going to be 90 seconds because that's like from your friends, your work, 90 seconds total. But generally I say if you haven't heard from them within 48 hours after a date, it's not a great sign.

Yeah. Yep. I'm literally thinking about when I'm excited about someone, like as a friend, business, when I was dating my husband, you know, it's just like that was, you were looking, you're looking forward to it. So you're looking for that text and it's kind of like if that person is not excited, they're probably not looking. So.

Right, right. So I'll give them the benefit, benefit of the doubt once. Because you really don't know someone on a first date. Like we start to tell all these stories to ourselves about whether they could meet our mom and fit in with our lifestyle and if our dog would like them or not. And then it's like, wait a minute, we are just at the beginning of this year. So if you put that aside, like, okay, 48 hours in the beginning. But once you have started to form a bond with somebody, usually you'll hear from them in a timely manner if they're interested. And you also should close the loop yourself if you're not interested. People will always tell me that they hate ghosting and yet I ask them, well, who did you ghost? And they're like, well, I mean these guys that, that match with me on Bumble. But like they weren't, I wasn't that interested. And Then anyway, I'm like, well, that's ghosting behavior, so just close the loop. And I don't think you. I don't think you owe anybody a longer explanation. Then I don't feel like it's a match. But I wish you lots of luck. That's all you need to do. If they start to harass you or chase you or provoke you after that point. This is why I love dating apps. Block, block and thank you, but no thank you and that's end of conversation. But most times my clients are really surprised by the responses they get. People will say, thank you. Thank you for treating me like a human. Thank you for letting me know. And I wish you lots of luck, too.

Yeah.

So good.

I love that I literally hear so much of the language that I use. I love talking to you because it's about. I love that closing the loop. Because when you have a loop open, you're somehow either like, putting that out to the universe that you're going to attract that, or your energy is actually draining and you don't realize it. Like, I love closing the loop. That's what will start showing up in your life. And people will start closing the loop with you, which will be so much appreciated because then your energy is not going to that either. So, okay, huge question for apps, because this would be. I always think of this, like, what is. I have no idea what the. Even what it's like right now, but I can imagine if I was dating. When is it appropriate for you or how do you decide what is appropriate for you to, like, ask them if they're going to stay on their apps or are we committed or I'd really like you to not be on here anymore. Or how do we know we're moving into that territory of, like, getting off there?

Well, you know this from your experiences. You can't make anybody do anything that they don't want to do. So I usually advise people to lead just with their personal share. I'm feeling really connected to you, and this is hard. I will acknowledge transparency is hard, but it's so liberating when you get to this place where you're just like, I can speak my truth without fear of the outcome and say, I'm really feeling connected to you and I want to get to know you better. So I'm going to take. I'm actually going to take myself off of the apps and then pause. This is a really helpful tool. The pause is really helpful for my female clients because we're so. We are so allergic to Silence. And in those pauses, we put all of our fears and all of the other things we've been told and all of our past experiences, and we, we. We shove it in there and then it just comes out of our mouth and we start talking and we assume and, you know, it's like Brene Brown says, like, you know, our sfd, like, we start talking about what we are thinking and it doesn't necessarily connect at all to what's in their head. And this has been a really, really excellent learning for me as an extrovert who's pretty much always talking to now be married to an introvert who is a very slow talker and a slow thinker. He needs time to process things. And I always rush to finish his sentences and, and get to, like, get to the point. And I find that the more I step back and allow and open up space, the more he feels comfortable sharing and the more I actually get to learn. So that is a really useful skill to develop to say, I would like to take down my app or whatever it is that you feel like personal sharing, and then stop and listen. Even if there is a little bit of awkward silence. And I'm intentionally slowing my speech right now, just getting back into that feeling myself of, like, what it's like to share vulnerably and not know what is going to come back and know that you're okay, you're okay either way. And that clarity and authenticity is much better than deception and, you know, and lies. So that might get you them saying, you know what? I feel the same way. I'm going to take down my apps, too. Which has happened for a ton of my clients. It might get you what happened for one of my clients a few years ago. Her guy said, well, I paid for a match through the end of the year, so I'm just going to keep mine up. And it was like, June, okay. And I went, that's kind of a weird sort of thought process that he pointed. He paid for it for six months because didn't he pay to meet you? Yeah, isn't. Does that matter? I think he got a pretty good deal. And she kind of didn't want to hear it at that point because she really liked him and she stayed with it. And then, I don't know, maybe a month or six weeks later, she was like, yeah, it's not going to work out. But she shared authentically. She got an authentic answer from him.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, she was not ready to hear it. So that's the biggest lesson that I can leave Your listeners with is to really hear people. Like, they will tell you. People will tell you where they're at. They will tell you their stuff, usually pretty early on. It's your job to keep your ears open and to hear it. And this also goes for people in relationships, too. Just stay open to what your partner is saying. Because sometimes we're so afraid of the outcome and what it means and we start analyzing it that we breeze over what's really just been said.

Oh, God, such a good lesson. I mean, I can apply that to so many points in my life, even with my husband. We can both be extroverted, but we are introverts, just like. But we are very introverted. We recharge away from people. And I think sometimes with him, I can want to put words in his mouth as well, because maybe I'm afraid of the answer he's going to come back with if I just ask something really vulnerable. And sometimes that space, I just want to fill it or tell him what he's think, like kind of analyze or, you know, kind of tell him what he's thinking, I guess, without even realizing it. And it's been so powerful for me just to let him sit in the answer and not try to analyze his answer or then, like, say why he might be feeling that way and just, like, let it. Like, just let the answer come and then let the answer be. That's the tough one for me, is letting the answer be what it is without me adding my thoughts around the answer, you know, completely.

It's so hard. I know everything that we've talked about today is not easy, which is why I've dedicated my life to helping people through it. But it's so valuable. And like you said, it all comes down to human connection. We are wired for connecting with others. And especially at a time like this when we have all been so disconnected. Not to technology, but, you know, to people. It does require a little extra effort to have that human, human connection and really be hearing and communicating with each other authentically.

Yes, not easy, but all the things that you taught, if you can, like, learn them, you really feel like you've got these amazing tools and keys to life to kind of nap. You just get to navigate easier. You notice things come easier. You notice relationships come easier. So I'm so excited about everything that you have to offer. I'd love to hear it. I know that you also give advice around, like, how do I even navigate these, you know, dating apps? And you go deeper into that. So if someone's like, girl, Please help me. Where do we. Where can we go? Where can we find. Follow all of the things.

Well, the first place to start is the Dates and mates podcast. As you said at the beginning, I'm also a content creator. I write and produce a lot of material around dating and relationships and lifestyle improvement and Dates and Mates. I've been doing it for eight years, and that's where. That's where you get the freshest hot off the presses, love advice from me, whether you're single or in a relationship. So that's the best place to start. And then, of course, I've also. I'm also on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook. Monahoffman, you're amazing.

I'm so grateful for you. You guys, if you loved this episode, you know, one of the biggest gifts that we can give to our guests is to tag her on Instagram, let her know what your biggest takeaway was, because it's so crazy me talking to these microphones. But let me tell you, it's, like, so cool to actually be able to see the people, people that you're impacting and affecting. And maybe she gave you an aha moment. Maybe she completely changed your life. Maybe you're going to work with her. Let her know. It's the nice thing to do.

Okay?

So make sure you tag her and let her know. And you guys, you know, I love always resharing your content. So, Damona, thank you so much for coming on the show. I loved this conversation.

Me too.

And until next time, earn your happy. Bye, everyone. Thank you, guys.

Thank you guys so much for spending this time with me on the earn your happy podcast. I am so glad that you stopped by. If you could take one second to share this episode with someone you think would love it, that would be absolutely amazing and we would be forever grateful. Also, please leave us a review if you feel so moved by going to itunes and leaving us an honest thought, an honest comment, tell us what you think, Tell us what you want to hear more of. It would really help us out on our journey to helping thousands and thousands of people. Until then, don't forget to earn your happy. Thanks again, guys. Bye.

Bye.